Chapter III: Part 3

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, that is what I am trying--of course the questions all have been with reference to the economic system based on production for use rather than for profit.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is right.

Mr. O’CONNELL. And all that.

Mr. TAVENNER. You trustees had very broad powers to determine what organization you would aid in the purpose of this trust which was, namely, to promote an economic system in the United States based upon profit for use. I am trying to find out how you exercised those broad powers.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Those powers were exercised by different trustees.

Mr. TAVENNER. Of which you were one.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of which I was one. All of us exercised I am sure our independent judgment on it. If it were possible to bring them all here, I don’t have them, but there were many instances where the trustees divided, where these grants were made by majority vote rather than by full vote and so on.

There are all kinds of situations that exist. But as far as I am concerned, Lem Harris never influenced me to make a grant to the Farmers Union or to any organization.

Mr. TAVENNER. Don’t misunderstand me again. My question is broader than the influencing of you. My question is whether or not it influenced the action of the trustees.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of course I don’t know whether Lem Harris went out and met with Jim Patton and Gardner Jackson, who was a trustee. I don’t know whether that actually took place. I don’t know whether he did these other things that are said. I don’t know whether he did them or not, but if he did those things and Jackson was going along then he had some influence and so on. But I think Jim Patton became leader of the National Farmers Union after I left Congress. I never got to know him real well, I think I have been introduced to him maybe once or twice. I know that Jim Patton was displeased with some of my votes on the foundation which were evidently reported to him by Jackson and went to the leadership of the Farmers Union in Montana to try to exercise influence as far as I was concerned in my votes on the foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you have any other groups attempting to influence your judgment or decision in the matter of making grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Any other groups?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; or individuals.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, over the period of years from 1940 on down there were all kinds of grants made and there have been various individuals who have come to me in connection with them.

Mr. TAVENNER. And many of those people were leaders in notorious Communist-front organizations; weren’t they?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, of course I don’t go along with your description of notorious Communist-front organizations. Many of the people came to me and asked me to vote for grants for causes and for principles which I thought were right and which I thought ought to be done, and if they were right in my opinion I thought they were right, I voted for them and if they were not I voted against them.

Mr. TAVENNER. Well, for instance, was a grant made of $20,000 to be used in the payment of attorney’s fees for the defense of William Robert Remington?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Not by the Marshall Foundation, by the trust funds that I was a trustee of. We certainly made no grant.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was any money of the foundation----

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think, isn’t that in connection with the civil-liberties trust? It is not in connection with the trade-union trust. Isn’t that right?

Mr. TAVENNER. That was paid out from another fund in the same trust, not from the one in which----

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. The will established, I think I can explain it, the will established three trusts, one that was called the Robert Marshall Foundation, we were denoted always as the trade-union trust. The second trust was a civil-liberties trust and 5 trustees, not all of the 5 trustees on the trade-union trust, were trustees on the civil-liberties trust. There were 15.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you on both?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I was only on the trade union trust.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you have any knowledge of the payment from this other trust--that is, the civil-liberties trust--of the grant of $20,000 for defense of Remington?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know nothing about it except, was that contained in Mr. Dies’ speech? Was that reported----

Mr. TAVENNER. No.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I really personally have no--I am not a member of that civil-liberties trust and I don’t know. There is also a wilderness area trust that is set up in the will and I am not a trustee on that fund either.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was the only fund of which you were a trustee the one which provided for the promotion of an economic system in the United States based upon the theory of production for use?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Which the trustees abandoned and decided to eliminate at the very first meeting of the trustees that was held.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let us see the nature of the grants and we can determine more about whether they did actually abandon it or not. How long did this trust continue to operate? How long was it active?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think we actually made grants from, if I remember correctly, 1940 until 1950. I am not sure whether we made any grants in 1950 or not. We have not met in the last 5 years, I know that. If I remember correctly, there is approximately $41,000 left in the fund of which I am a trustee and there have been no meetings of the trustees in at least the last 4 or 5 years.

Mr. TAVENNER. The committee has information that grants were made in 1941 and 1942 by the Robert Marshall Foundation to the American Youth Congress for the total of $10,250. Do you know who solicited those grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. An actual application would be made to Mr. George Marshall as manager of the trust by the organization that was involved--by the American Youth Congress. I can’t recall the reason for the grant. My offhand guess would be that the American Youth Congress was proposing to establish some kind of a labor secretary or labor division of the Youth Congress or something, and they would tie it in actually to the provision of the will as far as the trade union, development of trade unions were concerned, organization of unemployed youth, I imagine.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you, as a trustee, do anything to ascertain how the money was being used after the grants were made?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I never did actually as a trustee. We had the organization report to us from time to time how they were expending the funds and what they were doing, but I couldn’t personally take any one of those grants and tell you actually what the report was.

Mr. TAVENNER. The American Youth Congress has been cited as a subversive and Communist organization by Attorney General Tom Clark on December 4, 1947, and September 21, 1948, under a citation by Attorney General Francis Biddle September 24, 1942, and also, May 28, 1942, it was stated in the citation that--

It originated in 1934 and has been controlled by the Communists and
manipulated by them to influence the thought of American youth.

It was cited by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities June 29, 1942, January 3, 1939, January 3, 1941, and again on March 29, 1944, in which it was stated that it was one of the principal fronts of the Communist Party and prominently identified with the White House picket line under the immediate auspices of the American Peace Mobilization.

Do you know whether Jack R. McMichael was the national chairman of the American Youth Congress?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t recall--the name doesn’t mean anything to me.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did he play any part in the solicitation of these grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I was concerned, he didn’t at least to me. If his name was on the stationery, I got a copy of the application and all that, but----

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not certain that he was its president at the time those grants were made, but he may have been.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know.

Mr. TAVENNER. During the same period, according to the committee’s information, grants totaling $3,250 were made to the Federated Press.

Mr. O’CONNELL. That is correct.

Mr. TAVENNER. And subsequently increased to a total of $29,200.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether those totals are correct, but I know grants were made consistently to the Federated Press.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were the grants sufficiently large to make these figures within reason?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I would say they are. They never got a large grant each year. I think they got small grants like $3,500 or something of that kind. It could have totaled $29,000 over the years.

Mr. TAVENNER. That organization was cited on March 29, 1944, by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities as a Communist-controlled organization financed by the American Fund for Public Service and the Robert Marshall Foundation, both principal sources of funds for Communist enterprises.

Mr. O’CONNELL. There are a lot of conclusions drawn there that need proof.

Mr. TAVENNER. I think we are proceeding to prove it right now.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Federated Press was a press service that operated in the labor field. It supplied labor papers throughout the country with labor news, news about labor, and about things labor was doing and we thought certainly was entitled to a grant from the point of view of development and organization of trade unions.

Mr. TAVENNER. It was a principal supplier of the Daily Worker and the Daily People’s World.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I wouldn’t know, but I would presume that they probably----

Mr. TAVENNER. You didn’t inquire?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Probably did. As far as I was concerned the Federated Press was doing an excellent job in the labor field. As a Congressman, of course, I had excellent opportunity to get all of the labor newspapers and the labor newspapers particularly in my district, and they were getting news from the Federated Press that covered a want that was sorely needed as far as labor information was concerned.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you know that the American Youth Congress had been cited as a Communist-front organization at the time you acted upon----

Mr. O’CONNELL. By whom?

Mr. TAVENNER. By the Attorney General of the United States, both Attorney General Clark and Attorney General Biddle and by this committee.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I was concerned, I am pretty sure I had knowledge they were cited by Attorney General Clark and by Attorney General Biddle or by any other attorney general, but that didn’t determine in my mind----

Mr. TAVENNER. That did not serve to put you on inquiry?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That did not serve as far as I was concerned to make it conclusive by any means, and if I in my personal opinion thought they were doing a good job and doing a job within the provisions of this will and so on, I voted for it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Would you have made a grant to the Communist Party in the State of Washington which as shown by the testimony I read to you was interested in enacting into law the same principle under which this trust was being operated?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I told you that at the very beginning, at the very first meeting that the trustees held, that we voted not to make any grants that were asked for on the basis of being used for the promotion of an economy based on production for use rather than for profit.

Mr. TAVENNER. That would have been in violation of the provisions of the will, wouldn’t it?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, sir; we made our grants within the first provisions, within the provision that provided for the development and the organization of workers and unemployed persons and so on. We made it a strictly trade-union trust.

Mr. TAVENNER. In other words, you entirely disregarded this provision?

Mr. O’CONNELL. And if the Communist Party or the Democratic Party or Republican Party or any partisan organization came and asked for funds they wouldn’t have gotten it.

Mr. TAVENNER. But if it was an organization which the leadership of the Communist Party had captured and had under its control, it would be perfectly all right to make an award?

Mr. O’CONNELL. The organization never, I mean the foundation never went out and conducted any Red hunt or went out----

Mr. TAVENNER. Never took any precautionary measures?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Don’t put words in my mouth. We never went out and conducted any kind of a Red hunt, we never investigated the organization to see what they were doing.

Mr. TAVENNER. Didn’t you make any investigation?

Mr. O’CONNELL. When they said we want to do so and so in the labor field. We wanted to do this or that, if it was within the provisions of the will and in the minds of the majority of the trustees something we felt ought to be done, the grant was made. If we didn’t, it wasn’t.

Mr. TAVENNER. You said you didn’t make a Red hunt, witch hunt, I am not sure which you stated. Red hunt. But actually you didn’t make any investigation?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As to whether or not this organization had Reds in it or Communists in it?

Mr. TAVENNER. As to whether it was a Communist-controlled organization.

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, we didn’t make any such investigation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Why didn’t you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. It wasn’t our job to do anything of that kind. As a matter of fact, I am sure, Mr. Tavenner, you have been around here a long time, and I mean the development as far as these organizations are concerned that you are talking about to me now, the proscription of these organizations, certain individuals, are things that have gone on. I went into this foundation selected solely as a friend of Bob Marshall’s. I went in with an honest mind determined to do the best job I knew how to see that the money was spent to do what I thought Bob would like to have seen done.

Mr. TAVENNER. Bob unquestionably wanted to promote a new economic system in the United States based on the theory of production. That is what Bob wanted to do according to his last will and testament.

Did you make grants aggregating $6,000 to Frontier Films?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am pretty sure we did. I can’t recall the particular grant now or know what it was made for. I think there was a particular picture. Wasn’t the picture of 1937 Little Steel strike out in Chicago where many of the workers were murdered? You see it is very difficult to go back 17 or 18 years and try to put it in the pattern that you now work on today.

Mr. TAVENNER. We know that Frontier Films produced the Communist film Native Land based on Richard Wright’s Native Son. The picture featured the Negro actor, Paul Robeson. That is the only information that I have.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know as far as Frontier Films were concerned whatever the picture was, as I recall, it was a labor picture and my best recollection is it was the picture about the Little Steel strike and particularly the Memorial Day massacre in 1937 at Republic Steel in Chicago.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall who solicited the grant?

Frontier Films was cited by this committee as a Communist front on March 29, 1944.

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, the first name of Paul comes to my mind. I can’t remember any last name. The party came and talked to us about it--was there a Paul--Paul comes to my mind. That is all I can recall.

Mr. TAVENNER. Grants totaling $900 were made to the International Juridical Association. Do you recall the circumstances under which that grant was made?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No, I really can’t recall the circumstances now. It is apparently a very small grant. I don’t know what it was used for. It must have been in connection with some particular labor legal problem that may have been involved as far as the Wagner Act was concerned or NLRB or something of that nature.

Mr. TAVENNER. Grants totaling $4,250 were made to the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties. That is an organization you did know about; isn’t it? In fact, the amount was increased after 1942 to a total of $56,000. You were acquainted with that organization; weren’t you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew of the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties, yes, and I am sure that grants were made, I would say on an annual basis to the National Federation, I don’t know what amounts specifically, but whether that total amount is correct or not I cannot say.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you familiar with the citation of that organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I am not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let me read it to you. It was cited as subversive and Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark on December 4, 1947; it was also cited by Attorney General Francis Biddle September 24, 1942, in the following language:

Part of what Lenin called the solar system of organizations,
ostensibly having no connection with the Communist Party, by
which Communists attempt to create sympathizers and supporters of
their program. It was established as a result of a conference on
constitutional liberties held in Washington, D. C., June 7-9, 1940.
The defense of Communist leaders such as Sam Darcy and Robert Wood,
party secretaries for Pennsylvania and Oklahoma, have been major
efforts of the federation.

What purpose did the trustees of your foundation have in making $56,000 of grants to that organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, of course, if I had the specific application before me I could tell you, but I am sure that the application set out that it would be used for the defense of various labor leaders who were under attack of any kind, particularly from the civil liberties point of view.

Mr. TAVENNER. Communist or not?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Communist or non-Communist.

Mr. TAVENNER. You were actually one of the sponsors for the call to the conference, in June of 1940, which was alluded to in the citation by Attorney General Biddle; were you not?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether I was. If my name is there, I was, and of course I was all for any organization that was fighting for constitutional liberties and still am, any organization that fights for them.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long did you remain associated with the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Associated with them?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.

Mr. O’CONNELL. In what capacity?

Mr. TAVENNER. In any capacity. You were a sponsor of the call for the constitutional liberties conference which gave birth to the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I imagine I was a sponsor as long as it took to sponsor the call. I don’t know how long that might be. But I had no office in the National Federation.

Mr. TAVENNER. How was your assistance as a sponsor in this movement obtained?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Have you got a list of the officers of the federation?

Mr. TAVENNER. No; I do not.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I would presume--if you had a list of the officers--I presume I was contacted through the officers.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you aware that this organization merged with the International Labor Defense, another arm or branch of the Communist Party, to form the Civil Rights Congress?

Mr. O’CONNELL. My information is that the Civil Rights Congress was formed from a merger of these two organizations. That is as I understand it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Our information is that the Civil Rights Congress was given grants totaling $63,500. Are you familiar with those grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am sure the Civil Rights Congress was given grants. Whether or not that total figure is correct or not I couldn’t say.

Mr. TAVENNER. Civil Rights Congress was cited as subversive and Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark in 1947 and in 1948.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As I understand, they now are going through proceedings before the Board to determine whether or not they are?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, whether or not they will be required to register. That is the provision of law.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I mean the determination of whether or not they register is whether or not they are a Communist-front organization.

Mr. TAVENNER. They are probably making the defense that they are not required to.

Did you also make grants totaling $10,125 to the National Negro Congress which subsequently was increased to $54,530?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That sounds--I am sure grants were made to the National Negro Congress for the employment of a labor secretary to work particularly on the organizing of both working and unemployed Negroes in the Southern States. I am sure that was done.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you aware that that organization was cited as subversive and Communist by the Attorney General Tom Clark, on December 4, 1947, and again on September 21, 1948?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Do you know when our grants were made to the National Negro Congress?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, from 1942 until March 1951.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, then, I am sure that, I feel sure we knew it had been cited. As I said before, of course mere citations by the Attorney General is not sufficient----

Mr. TAVENNER. It wasn’t sufficient to put you on inquiry?

Mr. O’CONNELL. It wasn’t sufficient at least in my mind to proscribe that organization, and I think history and subsequent events have proved that it is necessary to go a little further than just to have the Attorney General put organizations on a list.

Mr. TAVENNER. You say a little further? You didn’t go any further, did you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as we were concerned, as I told you when an organization came to us they came to us with the specific application for funds for a specific purpose and we never--as a matter of fact, we never permitted the organization to appear before the foundation or any representative of the organization. We went into the matter ourselves. We conducted no investigations to determine what their political beliefs might be or anything like that.

Mr. TAVENNER. You made the awards regardless of the purpose behind the formation of the organization; is that what it comes down to?

Mr. O’CONNELL. For instance, we never went, we never sent out a group of investigators, never had the funds, as a matter of fact, to do that to find out.

Mr. TAVENNER. If you had read the citation of Attorney General Francis Biddle, for instance, which was made on September 24, 1942, you would have learned as follows:

A. Philip Randolph, president of the congress since its inception
in 1936, refused to run again in April 1940 on the ground that it
was deliberately packed with Communists and Congress of Industrial
Organization members who were either Communists or sympathizers
with Communists.

Commencing with its formation in 1936, Communist Party
functionaries and fellow travelers have figured prominently in the
leadership and affairs of the congress. According to A. Phillip
Randolph, John P. Davis, secretary of the congress, has admitted
that the Communist Party contributed $100 a month to its support.

From the record of its activities and the composition of its
governing bodies there can be little doubt that it has served as
what James W. Ford, Communist Vice Presidential candidate elected
to the executive committee in 1937 predicted: an important sector
of the Democratic front sponsored and supported by the Communist
Party.

Those are the words of Francis Biddle, Attorney General of the United States, in 1942. Do you say that statement was not worthy of consideration?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I, of course, didn’t have that statement in front of me.

Mr. TAVENNER. It would have been in front of you if you had inquired about it. It was in the Congressional Record.

Mr. O’CONNELL. We didn’t take the Congressional Record. There are many things in the Congressional Record, as you well know, that you just don’t take as it’s the Bible.

Mr. TAVENNER. Actually you were not interested to see whether or not the money which you were paying out was for the promotion of Communist Party projects?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That didn’t enter into our consideration, the fact that an organization came to us with a specific application for a specific purpose to do a certain job, and if we thought it ought to be done and thought it was in the provisions of the will we granted it. We didn’t think it was incumbent upon the trustees to make any kind of an investigation into these organizations as far as the political opinions and beliefs of their leaders or their members, whatever they might be. We just didn’t do it. It just wasn’t particularly being done by private individuals or private trusts.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did your foundation make grants totaling $1,500 to the Southern Conference for Human Welfare?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is, through 1942 and subsequently increased to a grand total of $14,000.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am sure, I don’t know whether that total is correct, but I am sure we made grants to the Southern Conference for Human Welfare.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you look into that organization or the formation of that organization?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. From my own information they were doing an excellent job in the field of promoting Negro rights, in the field of organizing of labor unions, and so on in the South, and particularly asked for the grant, if I remember correctly, to employ a labor secretary to develop that particular part of the conference or group.

Mr. TAVENNER. This organization was cited as Communist-front which received money from the Robert Marshall Foundation, one of the principal sources of funds by which many Communist-fronts operate, Special Committee on Un-American Activities reported March 29, 1944.

Did you make total grants of $30,750 to the Southern Negro Youth Congress?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am sure we made grants to the Southern Negro Youth Congress. Whether that total is correct, I can’t say.

Mr. TAVENNER. This organization was cited on December 4, 1947, by Attorney General Tom Clark as subversive and among the affiliates and committees of the Communist Party, U. S. A., which seeks to alter the form of the Government of the United States by unconstitutional means.

You thought that was not worth looking into?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I knew nothing about that. I certainly knew that that was--Who said that? I don’t know who said it now.

Mr. TAVENNER. Attorney General Tom Clark.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Do you think yourself that--well, that Tom Clark’s mere proscription of this organization is sufficient?

Mr. TAVENNER. Certainly this should have been a warning to you to make some inquiry and investigation unless your view and purpose was to help the Communist Party by promoting its interests through large awards.

Mr. O’CONNELL. That might be your conclusion but there were certainly no awards or grants made to these organizations from the point of view of being beneficial in any respect to the Communist Party.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall grants having been made of $6,000 to U. S. Week?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; I think I can recall that. Wasn’t that young Bill Dodd (William E. Dodd, Jr.), son of the former Ambassador to Germany?

Mr. TAVENNER. Young Bill Dodd was the son of the former United States Ambassador to Germany, but I don’t know who applied to you.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think that was the magazine he was interested in, if I remember.

Mr. TAVENNER. It was cited on March 29, 1949, by this committee as a Communist front which received funds from your Robert Marshall Foundation.

Mr. O’CONNELL. When was the grant made to U. S. Week?

Mr. TAVENNER. 1941. Were grants made to American Youth for Democracy in the amount of $5,000?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Was it grants or grant?

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not sure whether that is the total grant or whether that is one grant.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am not, either. I recollect a considerable amount of discussion about that grant when it came up.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the nature of the discussion?

Mr. O’CONNELL. There was some discussion about what kind of a job they were doing and what organization it was, and so on. I am pretty sure the grant was not continued.

Mr. TAVENNER. It was cited as subversive and Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark on December 4, 1947, and the citation by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities report March 29, 1944, reads as follows:

Cited as the new name under which the Young Communist League
operates and which also largely absorbed the American Youth
Congress.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Do you know when the grant was made?

Mr. TAVENNER. No; I do not. It would be between 1942 and 1951, but I don’t know the specific date.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I can remember a discussion about the grant, and I think you will find--I could be wrong, but I think there was only one grant made, and it was discontinued.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were grants totaling $6,500 made to the California Labor School?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; I don’t know whether that total amount is correct, but I know a grant was made to the California Labor School.

Mr. TAVENNER. This organization was cited by Attorney General Tom Clark on June 1, 1948, as a subversive and Communist organization.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Do you know when the grant was made?

Mr. TAVENNER. No, sir. Grants totaling $8,000 were made to the Council for Pan-American Democracy. Do you recall those grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I can remember that a grant was made, or grants, to that organization, but I can’t remember who the people were that were involved.

Mr. TAVENNER. The organization was cited by Attorney General Tom Clark on June 1, 1948, as subversive and Communist and by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities report on March 29, 1944, and again on June 25, 1942.

$21,000 was granted to Farm Research, according to our information. Do you recall that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I don’t recall it, but I presume your information is correct.

Mr. TAVENNER. Farm Research was cited by the Special Committee on Un-American Activities on March 29, 1944, as a Communist-front organization, receiving finances from the Robert Marshall Foundation.

Did the foundation make grants to the National Lawyers Guild in the amount of $15,250?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am sure it did, although I don’t know whether the amount is correct?

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the purpose of those grants?

Mr. O’CONNELL. The purpose of those grants was to assist the Lawyers Guild in getting out certain legal material as far as particular labor cases before the NLRB and the courts were concerned.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it furnished to assist the guild in getting out any other work besides that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No. They came in with a specific application to do this particular kind of job or work that had to be done, and where they were working particularly in representation of labor, in the labor field.

Mr. TAVENNER. Total of $25,000 was granted, according to our information, to the New World?

Mr. O’CONNELL. $25,000?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I know grants were made, I think that paper was originally called the Washington New Dealer. Isn’t that right? And grants were made to it while it was the Washington New Dealer. It was changed to the New World and grants were made both to it as the Washington New Dealer and the New World.

But the minute it became a part of the People’s World which became a Northwest edition of the People’s World, there were no further grants made.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you procure from the Robert Marshall Foundation a grant to be used by any progressive causes in the Northwest in May 1949?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; I think a grant for the Seattle Labor School.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was the amount of that $4,000?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. You left Seattle in May 1949 to attend your meeting in New York City of your trustees?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. I don’t know whether it was May of 1949, but some time----

Mr. TAVENNER. And returned with $4,000 for the Seattle Labor School.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; that is right.

Mr. TAVENNER. The Seattle Labor School, according to the testimony of Barbara Hartle, is the same as the Pacific Northwest Labor School. It was first known by the name of Seattle Labor School and then later became known as the Pacific Northwest Labor School.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Wasn’t it the other way around?

Mr. TAVENNER. I may have it backward. You probably would know.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t remember which was which, but I think it was the other way around. But I can remember that grant; yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. Who was instrumental in soliciting the funds for that labor school?

Mr. O’CONNELL. John Daschbach.

Mr. TAVENNER. The same person who used your name on the catalogue of the school as an instructor of course 112?

Mr. O’CONNELL. That is right.

Mr. TAVENNER. You knew it was a Communist Party school at that time, didn’t you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I did not.

Mr. TAVENNER. It was cited by the Attorney General Tom Clark, as early as December 4, 1947.

You again state you just didn’t pay any attention to that citation by an Attorney General?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t recall that it was cited. I don’t remember, but as I said, a citation by the Attorney General or placing it on a list would not be determinative for me as to whether or not it ought to get a grant.

Mr. TAVENNER. We have demonstrated in the testimony to you here today that nearly every teacher on the staff was a member of the Communist Party, according to testimony before this committee. We have shown you now the citation of the Attorney General of that school, and we find now that you procured this grant of $4,000.

Did you procure any other money for this school besides this grant of $4,000?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I can’t----

Mr. TAVENNER. Our information is that the total amount advanced to the Pacific Northwest Labor School was $11,500.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I thought you meant money outside of the Marshall Foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. No.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am pretty sure grants were made to the Seattle Labor School for 2 or 3 years, I don’t remember which.

Mr. TAVENNER. In fact, it would have closed its doors but for the financial assistance given it through you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As a matter of fact, when the last grant was made it had closed its doors and the grant was made to pay up debts and salaries and things of that kind that were--incurred loans.

Mr. TAVENNER. Salaries to Communist Party teachers?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. Daschbach’s salary for one.

Mr. TAVENNER. He has been identified by a number of witnesses as an active member of the Communist Party.

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I was concerned, I didn’t know he was a member of the Communist Party and many of these people I don’t even know that you read today as teachers at that school, I don’t even know.

I do know Gundlach, who was a professor at the University of Washington. Whether he is a Communist or not, I don’t know, but----

Mr. TAVENNER. You are not willing to accept the testimony of a Communist Party functionary, the No. 2 person in the Communist Party in the State of Washington, for that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, of course, I haven’t had an opportunity to read her testimony. Did she say Gundlach was a Communist? The reason I feel so sure Gundlach isn’t a Communist is when the State un-American activities committee was conducting its investigations out there----

Mr. TAVENNER. I read to you this morning and read into the record the identification of Gundlach as a member of the Communist Party, according to the testimony given this committee and my recollection is that it was Barbara Hartle.

At any rate, didn’t you know that and weren’t you aware of the fact that he was ousted from the university as a professor because of his Communist Party membership?

Mr. O’CONNELL. If I remember correctly, and it is a long time ago, Gundlach was actually ousted, if I remember correctly, because President Allen, who was at the university at the time, didn’t think he was a Communist but thought that his conduct in connection with the investigation that was carried on by the State un-American activities committee, was such that he didn’t think he was a fit and proper person to be a teacher at the university. That is my recollection of it.

The reason I wonder about Gundlach is that he took an entirely different course, as I remember, before the State un-American activities committee out there than certain others who were there later, but if Barbara Hartle says he is and says he was, she may be right. I don’t know. All I am doing is conjecturing on the basis of----

Mr. TAVENNER. As a matter of fact, Mr. O’Connell, from your vast experience and your intelligence, didn’t you form the opinion that the Pacific Northwest Labor School was a training school for the Communist Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I particularly didn’t get that idea because I know some excellent people who were connected with the school. One is Frank Carlson, who was in the streetcarmen’s union out there who was an outstanding labor leader who certainly wasn’t a Communist.

I. E. Sandvigen of the machinists union was not a Communist, I am sure. Many others identified with the school particularly in the labor movement that promoted the school and I think what may have happened to it as it went along, I don’t know, but the idea of the school was a good one and I think they were trying to do a good job.

Daschbach became director of the school somewhat later in its history, as I remember it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let me read into the record at this point, Mr. Chairman, the testimony of Barbara Hartle regarding the labor school. She was asked the question as to what connection there was between the school and the Communist Party. That is between the Pacific Northwest Labor School and the Communist Party. Her answer was as follows:

The Pacific Northwest Labor School was a Communist front project
in the field of education and its basic purpose was to spread
Marxist-Leninist education, but to do it in such a way as to
attract non-Communists in addition to its use for being a school
for Communist Party members.

It had a double purpose, to educate the party membership and to
draw as many non-Communists into classes as possible at the same
time. It was not considered a party leadership training school,
it was more for the membership. And in order to attract a broader
segment of persons into the school a number of courses were
included that were not in Marxism-Leninism, but they were included
in order to appeal to people from labor unions, professional
fields, and others.

For example, parliamentary law would be a subject intended for the
purpose of drawing people into the school and drawing them closer
to it with no idea on their part that they were getting into a
Communist school. An air of respectability was also created in this
way so that people would feel if they enrolled in this school they
had a perfect right to do so and there was nothing wrong with being
in it.

The hope, of course, was that if non-Communists enrolled this way,
after a while they would learn more about it and would become
convinced to enroll in courses on Marxist-Leninism. The objective
of the school was to gain Communist influence over non-Communists,
recruit as many people as possible out of this school into the
Communist Party, and special attention was paid to members of
organized labor through this school.

Mr. DOYLE. The committee will stand in recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 4:20 p. m. the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 9:30 a. m., Thursday, June 2, 1955.)

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA

THURSDAY, JUNE 2, 1955

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES,
_Washington, D. C._

PUBLIC HEARING

A subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 9:45 a. m. in the Caucus Room, Old House Office Building, Hon. Edwin E. Willis, presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Edwin E. Willis and Gordon H. Scherer.

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, counsel.

Mr. WILLIS. The subcommittee will come to order.

Let the record show there are present today Mr. Scherer, of Ohio, and myself, Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana.

Inasmuch as the subcommittee is reconstituted, that is, members are here today who were not present yesterday, it might be well to reswear the witness.

Let the record show also that the chairman of the committee appointed a new subcommittee to continue these hearings, namely, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Scherer, and myself as chairman.

Will you stand and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I do.

Mr. WILLIS. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.

TESTIMONY OF JEREMIAH JOSEPH O’CONNELL--Resumed

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, continuing with the matter of grants by the Robert Marshall Foundation, of which you were one of the trustees, it is noted that grants totaling $30,366.85 were made to you. Can you explain that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. Those would be in my opinion the total amount that I received for traveling expenses, for meetings of the foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean, then, no specific grant was actually made to you?

Mr. O’CONNELL. There was no actual specific grant made to me. The provisions of the will, as I remember them, provided that the trustees are to receive no compensation except their traveling expenses to and from meetings of the trustees of the foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. I note that there was introduced into the record during the Canwell hearings, check No. 94 bearing date of October 2, 1942, drawn on the funds of the Robert Marshall Foundation in the amount of $150 made payable to you.

Have you any explanation to make of that item?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I am sure that, if I knew the meeting date of the foundation at that time, we also had a practice when a meeting of the foundation was called by the trustees, if the financial situation of the trustee involved was such that he needed an advance for expenses to come to the meeting, an advance was made in the amount of probably $150 or so, but it was always expended for either transportation or meals and hotel and so on, while in attendance at the meetings of the foundation.

Mr. TAVENNER. You testified yesterday that in May of 1949 you procured a grant of $4,000 for the use of the Northwest Pacific Labor School.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of course I think that ought to be--I personally couldn’t procure the grant. The grant was voted by at least a majority of the trustees for the Pacific Northwest Labor School.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was the grant actually made through your efforts?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I advocated that the grant be made, yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. And Daschbach interviewed you with regard to it before you presented it?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes, that is correct.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was any part of that grant or any other grant used for the benefit of the Northwest edition of the Daily People’s World?

Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as I know, certainly not. I mean the grants were made to the organization and certainly no part of that grant as far as I would know, what actually Daschbach may have done with it later I wouldn’t be able to specifically say.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you learn anything about it, even from a second-hand source?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I never learned, never had any information that it was used for any other purpose.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you know whether any part of the $4,000 grant or any other grant from the foundation was used for the benefit of the Civil Rights Congress in the State of Washington?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether it was, that grant or any other grant. I know there was some argument and some consultation with me by Mr. Daschbach about it and I was very specific--I think that was before the grant was made--and I was very specific with him that no part of the grant would be used for any other purpose than that for which it was made. That was the Pacific Northwest Labor School.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was John Daschbach an official of the Civil Rights Congress in Seattle?

Mr. O’CONNELL. If I remember correctly, I left Seattle, I don’t remember when the Civil Rights Congress was organized in Seattle, but as I remember when I left Seattle Daschbach was then functioning as head or director of the Washington Civil Rights Congress.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did he hold that position at the time he spoke to you about the use of proceeds of the grant for the Civil Rights Congress?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t think I would be able to say whether he was actually in the position at that time. I can’t recall. I remember at the time that he asked me about the grant they were closing out, they were terminating this Seattle Labor School and they had borrowed money from particularly various labor union members about the town. I remember I think it was either Frank or Fred Carlson to whom they owed money and other people, I can’t remember precisely who they were now, but anyway the representations made to me in connection with the grant were they were trying to close out the labor school and pay off their debts and pay I think back salaries that were owed to Mr. Daschbach and to some others there, I don’t know who.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was John Daschbach known to you to be a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I never knew John Daschbach was a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. TAVENNER. Had you heard that he was a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I had never heard that he was a member of the Communist Party. I actually, my first, I think the first time I met Mr. Daschbach was in Spokane and I think he was attending Gonzaga University, a Jesuit university in Spokane, and as far as I knew personally, I didn’t know he was a Communist, didn’t know whether he was or was not.

Mr. TAVENNER. You are aware now, are you not, that he has been identified by a number of witnesses as a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t say that I know that precisely; but I do know he was indicted as a Smith Act defendant in Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. And convicted.

Mr. O’CONNELL. And convicted. I don’t know whether he is in prison now.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you recall what individual it was in the National Lawyers Guild who solicited an award from the trustees?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, my best recollection as far as that would be concerned is that it was Mr. Martin Popper, who was an attorney in New York.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did the executive secretary of the National Lawyers Guild take any part in representations or solicitations regarding the grant?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think Mr. Silberstein (Robert J. Silberstein), I wouldn’t remember correctly. It is hard for me to remember. I would say Mr. Silberstein actually probably prepared the actual application that was made to the foundation for a grant.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did he confer with you about the matter?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I can never even remember Bob Silberstein talking to me about a grant for the Lawyers Guild. As I remember the particular grant, it was made in connection with labor work that the guild was doing, and Mr. Martin Popper, as I remember it, was the one who actually made the presentation, at least I know he talked to me and I think to some of the other trustees.

Mr. TAVENNER. The New World issue of March 25, 1948, reflects that Jerry O’Connell launched a series of three special forum programs at the Pacific Northwest Labor School to discuss our foreign policy and our fight for peace. Do you recall that?

Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I don’t recall that. I know I never made any speeches at Seattle Labor School.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you have any connection with the presentation of a special forum program at the Seattle Labor School?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I certainly cannot recall any. I don’t remember ever speaking at the Seattle Labor School or being involved in any forum. Was that a forum I was supposed to conduct?

Mr. TAVENNER. The article says you launched a series of three forum programs.

Mr. O’CONNELL. It says it is on foreign policy?

Mr. TAVENNER. That the subject was Our Foreign Policy and Our Fight for Peace.

Mr. O’CONNELL. I certainly don’t remember any such thing. Practically all the time I was in the State of Washington I was engaged either as executive secretary of the Democratic Party or was executive secretary of the Progressive Party and my particular work was in political organization and political work and I don’t want to say I did or didn’t but I certainly now don’t recall any such series of lectures.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. O’Connell, you have advised us that you became chairman of the National Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill during the year 1948.

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; that is correct.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you aware of a special fund drive conducted by the Communist Party in 1947 for the purpose of fighting anticipated congressional action relating to the Communist Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I had no knowledge of any such--what was it a fund?

Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Blauvelt testified before the Committee on Un-American Activities within the past 3 weeks on that subject. She was a police detective for the city of New York and was a member of the Communist Party and served the New York City Police Department as an underground agent for a period of more than 8 years before her identity was discovered. Mrs. Blauvelt testified for nearly a week.

In the course of this testimony she stated that upon the agitation for a bill relating to communism in the House of Representatives the Communist Party hurriedly made a fund drive and that they sought to raise a total of $225,000 for the purpose of fighting the opposition to communism. Within 25 days the Communist Party raised $250,000.

During the period that you were chairman of this committee to defeat the Mundt bill--that was over the period from 1948 until some time in 1950 or 1951----

Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes; but it ought to be explained that in 1948 the only functioning of the committee was from a period I would say probably in June of 1948 until the adjournment of Congress, which was in that year I think, because of the party conventions, the national conventions, was adjourned quite early.

I know there was probably, I was here probably a month or a little over a month in that connection, and then I did not--all during 1949 there was no functioning of the committee whatsoever, as I remember it, and I think the first time I came down in 1950 was, I would say, about March of 1950 and I was here until about maybe the early part of June, when I returned to Montana to take the bar exams I have already talked about.

Mr. TAVENNER. As you stated, you came back here in July and were here for a period of time?

Mr. O’CONNELL. I think the latter part of July or first part of August and I was here until the Congress adjourned sine die about the middle of September.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is correct.

To complete my question: Did the Communist Party give your committee any financial assistance at any time during the period from 1948 to 1950 while you were chairman of the National Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill?

Mr. O’CONNELL. Of my knowledge, I don’t know of any assistance that the Communist Party gave to the National Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill. I, of course received, all I received, I think I received $125 a week salary, if I remember correctly. I had no charge of funds or the expenditure of funds.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was that salary of $125 a week paid by the Progressive Party?

Mr. O’CONNELL. In 1948 I think the salary was paid by the Progressive Party, but I am not too sure.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you not so certify on the reports made to the Clerk of the House of Representatives?

Mr. O’CONNELL. If I did, that was so.

Mr. WILLIS. For the record, Mr. Tavenner, state the substance of the Mundt bill.