Chapter C: Forbes

This celebrated Latin verse, which has become proverbial, has a very obscure authority, probably not known to many of your readers. It is from Gualtier de Lille, as has been remarked by Galeottus Martius and Paquier in their researches. This Gualtier flourished in the thirteenth century. The verse is extracted from a poem in ten books, called the "Alexandriad," and it is the 301st of the 5th book; it relates to the fate of Darius, who, flying from Alexander, fell into the hands of Bessus. It runs thus:--

"-- Quo flectis inertem
Rex periture, fugam? Nescis, heu perdite, nescis,
Quem fugias; hostes incurris dum fugis hostem;
_Incidis in Scyllam, cupiens vitare Charybdim_"

As honest JOHN BUNYAN, to his only bit of Latin which he quotes, places a marginal note: "The Latin which I borrow,"--a very honest way; so I I beg to say that I never saw this "Alexandriad," and that the above is an excerpt from _Menagiana_, pub. 1715, edited by Bertrand de la Monnoie, wherein may also be found much curious reading and research.

JAMES H. FRISWELL.

* * * * *

A NOTE OF ADMIRATION!

Sir Walter Scott, in a letter to Miss Johanna Baillie, dated October 12, 1825, (Lockhart's _Life of Sir W. S._, vol. vi. p. 82.), says,--

"I well intended to have written from Ireland, but alas! as some
stern old divine says, 'Hell is paved with good intentions.'
There was such a whirl of laking, and boating, and wondering,
and shouting, and laughing, and carousing--" [He alludes to his
visiting among the Westmoreland and Cumberland lakes on his way
home, especially] "so much to be seen, and so little time to see
it; so much to be heard, and only two ears to listen to twenty
voices, that upon the whole I grew desperate, and gave up all
thoughts of doing what was right and proper on post-days, and so
all my epistolary good intentions are gone to Macadamise, I
suppose, 'the burning marle' of the infernal regions."

How easily a showy absurdity is substituted for a serious truth, and taken for granted to be the right sense. Without having been there, I may venture to affirm that "Hell is _not_ paved with good intentions, such things being _all lost or dropt on the way_ by travellers who reach that bourne;" for, where "Hope never comes," "good intentions" cannot exist any more than they can be formed, since to fulfil them were impossible. The authentic and emphatical figure in the saying is, "The _road_ to hell is paved with good intentions;" and it was uttered by the "stern old divine," whoever he might be, as a warning _not_ to let "good intentions" miscarry for want of being realized at the time and upon the spot. The moral, moreover, is manifestly this, that people may be going to hell with "the best intentions in the world," substituting all the while _well-meaning_ for _well-doing_.

J.M.G

Hallamshire.

* * * * *

THE EARL OF NORWICH AND HIS SON GEORGE LORD GORING.

As in small matters accuracy is of vital consequence, let me correct a mistake which I made, writing in a hurry, in my last communication about the two Gorings (Vol. ii., p. 65.). The Earl of Norwich was not under sentence of death, as is there stated, on January 8, 1649. He was then a prisoner: he was not tried and sentenced till March.[2]

The following notice of the son's quarrels with his brother cavaliers occurs in a letter printed in Carte's bulky appendix to his bulky _Life of the Duke of Ormond_. As this is an unread book, you may think it worth while to print the passage, which is only confirmatory of Clarendon's account of the younger Goring's proceedings in the West of England in 1645. The letter is from Arthur Trevor to Ormond, and dated Launceston, August 18, 1645.

"Mr. Goring's army is broken and all his men in disorder. He
hates the council here, and I find plainly there is no love
lost; they fear he will seize on the Prince, and he, that they
will take him: what will follow hereupon may be foretold,
without the aid of the wise woman on the bank. Sir John
Colepeper was at Court lately to remove him, to the discontent
of many. In short, the war is at an end in the West; each one
looks for a ship, and nothing more.

"Lord Digby and Mr. Goring are not friends; Prince Rupert yet
goes with Mr. Goring, but how long that will hold, I dare not
undertake, knowing both their constitutions."

It will be observed that the writer of the letter, though a cavalier, here calls him _Mr. Goring_, when as his father was created Earl of Norwich in the previous year, he was _Lord Goring_ in cavalier acceptation.

He is indiscriminately called Mr. Goring and Lord Goring in passages of letters by cavaliers relating to the campaign in the West of 1645, which occur in Carte's _Collection of Letters_ (vol. i. pp. 59, 60. 81. 86.).

A number of letters about the son, Lord Goring's proceedings in the West in 1645 are printed in the third volume of Mr. Lister's _Life of Lord Clarendon_.

The Earl of Norwich's second son, Charles, who afterwards succeeded as second earl, commanded a {87} brigade under his brother in the West in 1645. (Bulstrode's _Memoirs_, p. 142.; Carte's _Letters_, i. 116. 121.)

Some account of the father, Earl of Norwich's operations against the parliament in Essex in 1648, is given in a curious autobiography of Arthur Wilson, the author of the _History of James I_., which is printed in Peck's _Desiderata Curiosa_, book xi. part 5. Wilson was living at the time in Essex.

An interesting fragment of a letter from Goring the son to the Earl of Dorset, written apparently as he was on the point of retiring into France, and dated Pondesfred, January 26, 1646, is printed in Mr. Eliot Warburton's _Memoirs of Prince Rupert_, iii. 215.

Mr. Warburton, by the way, clearly confounds the father with the son when he speaks of the Earl of Norwich's trial and reprieve (iii. 408.). Three letters printed in Mr. W.'s second volume (pp. 172. 181, 182.), and signed "Goring", are probably letters of the father's, but given by Mr. Warburton to the son.

I perceive also that Mr. Bell, the editor of the lately published _Fairfax Correspondence_, has not avoided confusion between the father and son. In the first volume of the correspondence relating to the civil war (p. 281.), the editor says, under date January, 1646,--

"Lord Hopton in the meanwhile has been appointed to the command
in Cornwall, superseding Goring. Also has been sent off on
several negociations to France."

Goring went off to France on his own account; his father was at that
time Charles I.'s ambassador at the court of France.

I should like to know the year in which a letter of Goring the son's, printed by Mr. Bell in vol. i. p. 23., was written, if it can be ascertained. As printed, it is dated "Berwick, June 22." Is _Berwick_ right? Is there a bath there? The letter is addressed to Sir Constantine Huygens, and in it is this passage--

"I have now my lameness so much renewed that I cannot come to
clear myself; as soon as the bath has restored me to my
strength, I shall employ it in his Highness's service, if he
please to let me return into the same place of his favour that I
thought myself happy in before."

I should expect that this letter was written from France after Goring's abrupt retreat into that country. It is stated that the letter comes from Mr. Bentley's collection.

The Earl of Norwich was in Flanders in November 1569, and accompanied the Dukes of York and Gloucester from Brussels to Breda. (Carte's _Letters_, ii. 282.)

CH.

If the following account of the Goring family given by Banks (_Dormant and Extinct Peerage_, vol. iii. p. 575.) is correct, it will appear that the father and both his sons were styled at different times. "Lord Goring," and that they may very easily be distinguished.

"George Goring, of Hurstpierpont, Sussex, the son of George
Goring, and Anne his wife, sister to Edward Lord Denny,
afterwards Earl of Norwich, was created Baron Goring in the
fourth of Charles I., and in the xx'th of the same reign
advanced to the earldom of Norwich, which had become extinct by
the death of his maternal uncle above-mentioned, S.P.M.

"He betrayed Portsmouth, of which he was governor, to the king,
and rendered him many other signal services. He married Mary,
one of the daughters of Edward Nevill, vi'th Baron of
Abergavenny, and had issue four daughters, and two sons, the
eldest of whom, George, was an eminent commander for Charles I.,
and best _known as 'General Goring_,' and who, after the loss of
the crown to his royal master, retired to the Continent, and
served with credit as lieutenant-general to the King of Spain.
He married Lettice, daughter of Richard Earl of Cork, and died
abroad, S.P., in _the lifetime of his father_, who survived till
1662, and was succeeded by _his only remaining son_, Charles
Lord Goring, and second Earl of Norwich, with whom, as he left
no issue by his wife, daughter of ---- Leman, and widow of Sir
Richard Beker, all his honours became extinct in 1672. He was
unquestionably the Lord Goring noticed by Pepys as returning to
England in 1660, and not the old peer his father, who, if
described by any title, would have been styled 'Earl of
Norwich.'"

BRAYBROOKE.

July 1, 1850.

[Footnote 2: Let me also correct a misprint. Banks, the author of the _Dormant and Extinct Perrage_, is misprinted Burke.]

* * * * *

QUERIES

JAMES CARKASSE'S LUCIDA INTERVALLA, AN ILLUSTRATION OF PEPYS' DIARY.

I met lately with a quarto volume of poems printed at London in 1679, entitled:

"_Lucida Intevalla_ containing divers miscellaneous Poems
written at Finsbury and Bethlem, by the Doctor's Patient
Extraordinary."

On the title-page was written in an old hand the native of the "patient extraordinary" and author _James Carkasse_, and that of the "doctor" _Thomas Allen_. A little reading convinced me that the writer was a very fit subject for a lunatic asylum; but at page 5, I met with an allusion to the celebrated Mr. Pepys, which I will beg to quote:--

"Get thee behind me then, dumb devil, begone,
The Lord hath eppthatha said to my tongue,
Him I must praise who open'd hath my lips,
Sent me from Navy, to the Ark, by Pepys;
By Mr. Pepys, who hath my rival been
For the Duke's[3] favour, more than years thirteen;
But I excluded, he high and fortunate,
This Secretary I could never mate; {88}
But Clerk of th' Acts, if I'm a parson, then
I shall prevail, the voice outdoes the pen;
Though in a gown, this challenge I may make,
And wager win, save if you can, your stake.
To th' Admiral I all submit, and vail--"

The book from which I extract is _cropped_, so that the last line is illegible. Can the noble editor of Pepys' _Diary_, or any of your readers, inform me who and what was this Mr. James Carkasse?

W.B.R.

[Footnote 3: The Duke of York, afterwards James II.]

* * * * *

MINOR QUERIES.

_Epigrams on the Universities_.--There are two clever epigrams on the circumstance, I believe, of Charles I. sending a troop of horse to one of the universities, about the same time that he presented some books to the other.

The sting of the first, if I recollect right, is directed against the university to which the books were sent, the king--

"--right well discerning,
How much that loyal body wanted learning."

The reply which this provoked, is an attack on the other university, the innuendo being that the troops were sent there--

"Because that learned body wanted loyalty."

I quote from memory.

Can any of your readers, through the medium of your valuable paper, favour me with the correct version of the epigrams, and with the particular circumstances which gave rise to them?

J. SWANN.

Norwich.

_Lammas Day_.--Why was the 1st of August called "Lammas Day?" Two definitions are commonly given to the word "Lammas." 1. That it may mean _Loaf-mass_. 2. That it may be a word having some allusion to St. Peter, as the patron of _Lambs_.

O'Halloran, however, in his _History of Ireland_, favours us with another definition; upon the value of which I should be glad of the opinion of some of your learned contributors. Speaking of Lughaidh, he says:--

"From this prince the month of August was called Lughnas
(Lunas), from which the English adopted the name _Lammas_, for
the 1st day of August."

J. SANSOM.

_Mother Grey's Apples_.--At the time I was a little girl,--you will not, I am sure, be ungallant enough to inquire when that was, when I tell you I am now a woman,--I remember that the nursery maid, whose duty it was to wait upon myself and sisters, invariably said, if she found us out of temper--"So, so! young ladies, you are in the sulks, eh? Well, sulk away; you'll be like 'Mother Grey's apples,' you'll be sure to come round again." We often inquired, on the return of fine weather, who Mother Grey was, and what were the peculiar circumstances of the apples coming round?--questions, however, which were always evaded. Now, as the servant was a Cambridge girl, and had a brother a _gyp_, or bedmaker, at one of the colleges, besides her uncle keeping the tennis court there, I have often thought there must have been some college legend or tradition in Alma Mater, of Mother Grey and her apples. Will any of your learned correspondents, should it happen to fall within their knowledge, take pity on the natural curiosity of the sex, by furnishing its details?

A.M.

_Jewish Music_.--What was the precise character of the _Jewish music_, both before and after David? And what variety of musical instruments had the Jews?

J. SANSOM

_The Plant "Haemony_."--Can any of your readers furnish information of, or reference to the plant _Haemony_, mentioned in Milton's _Comus_, l. 638.:--

"--a small unsightly root,
But of divine effect,...
The leaf was darkish, and had prickles on it,
But in another country, as he said,
_Bore a bright golden flower, but not in this soil:_
--More medicinal is it than that Moly,
That Hermes once to wise Ulysses gave;
He called it _Haemony_, and gave it me,
And bade me keep it as of sov'reign use
'Gainst all enchantments," &c. &c.

The Moly that Hermes to Ulysses gave, is the wild garlick, [Greek: molu] by some thought the wild rue. (_Odyss_. b. x. 1. 302.) It is the [Greek: moluza] of Hippocrates, who recommends it to be eaten as an antidote against drunkenness. But of _Haemony_ I have been unable to find any reference among our ordinary medical authorities, Paulus Aeginata, Celsus, Galen, or Dioscorides. A short note of reference would be very instructive to many of the readers of Milton.

J.M. BASHAM.

17. Chester Street, Belgrave Square.

_Ventriloquism_.--What evidence is there, that _ventriloquism_ was made use of in the ancient oracles? Was the [Greek: pneuma puthonos] (Acts, xvi. 16.) an example of the exercise of this art? Was the Witch of Endor a ventriloquist? or what is meant by the word [Greek: eggastrimuthos] at Isai. xix. 3., in the Septuagint?

"Plutarch informs us," says Rollin (_Ancient History_, vol. i. p. 65.), "that the god did not compose the verses of the oracle. He inflamed the Pythia's imagination, and kindled in her soul that living light which unveiled all futurity to her. The words she uttered in the heat of her enthusiam, having neither method nor connection, and coming only by starts, to use that expression [Greek: eggastrimuthos] from the bottom of her stomach, or rather from her belly, were collected {89} with care by the prophets, who gave them afterwards to the poets to be turned into verse."

If the Pythian priestess was really a ventriloquist, to what extent was she conscious of the deception she practised?

J. SANSOM.

_Statue of French King, Epigram on_.--Can any of your readers inform me who was the author of the following epigram, written on the occasion of an equestrian statue of a French king attended by the Virtues being erected in Paris:--

"O la belle statue! O le beau Piedestal!
Les Vertus sont à pied, le Vice est à cheval!"

AUGUSTINE.

_Lux Fiat_.--Who was the first Christian or Jewish writer by whom _lux fiat_ was referred to the creation of the _angels_?

J. SANSOM.

_Hiring of Servants_.--At Maureuil, in the environs of Abbeville, a practice has long existed of hiring servants in the market-place on festival days. I have observed the same custom in various parts of England, and particularly in the midland counties. Can any of your correspondents inform me of the origin of this?

W.J.

Havre.

_Book of Homilies_.--Burnet, in his _History of the Reformation in anno 1542_, says,--

"A Book of Homilies was printed, in which the Gospels and Epistles of all the Sundays and Holidays of the year were set down with a _Homily to every one of these_. To these were also added Sermons upon several occasions, as for _Weddings_, _Christenings_, and _Funerals_."

Can any learned clerk inform me where a copy of such Homilies can be seen?

B.

_Collar of SS_.--Where can we find _much_ about the SS. collar? Is there any list extant of persons who were honoured with that badge?

B.

_Rainbow_.--By what heathen poet is the _rainbow_ spoken of as "risus plorantis Olympi?"

J. SAMSON.

_Passage in Lucan_.--What parallel passages are there to that of _Lucan_:--

"Communis mundo superest rogus, ossibus astra
Misturus?"

J. SAMSON.

_William of Wykeham_.--Is there any better Life of William of Wykeham than the very insufficient one of Bishop Lowth?

What were the circumstances of the rise of William of Wykeham, respecting which Lowth is so very scanty and unsatisfactory?

Where did William of Wykeham get the wealth with which he built and endowed New College, Oxon, and St. Mary's, Winchester; and rebuilt Winchester Cathedral?

What are the present incomes of New College, and St Mary's, Winchester?

Is there a copy of the Statutes of these colleges in the British Museum, or in any other public library?

W.H.C.

April 22, 1850.

_Richard Baxter's Descendants_.--Can any of your correspondents inform me of the whereabouts of the descendants of the celebrated Richard Baxter? He was a Northamptonshire man, but I think his family removed into some county in the west.

W.H.B.

_Passage in St. Peter_.--Besides the well-known passage in the _Tempest_, what _Christian_ writers have used any kindred expression to 2 Pet. iii. 10.?

J. SANSOM.

8. Park Place, Oxford, June 1. 1850.

_Juice-cups_.--Is it beneath the dignity of "NOTES AND QUERIES" to admit an inquiry respecting the philosophy and real effect of placing an inverted cup in a fruit pie? The question is not about the _object_, but whether that object is, or can be, effected by the means employed.

N.B.

Derivation of "Yote" or "Yeot."--What is the derivation of the word "yote" or "yeot," a term used in Glocestershire and Somersetshire, for "leading in" iron work to stone?

B.

_Pedigree of Greene Family_.--At Vol. i., p. 200., reference is made to "a fine Pedigree on vellum, of the Greene family, penes T. Wotton, Esq."

Can any person inform me who now possesses the said pedigree, or is there a copy of it which may be consulted?

One John Greene, of Enfield, was clerk to the New River Company: he died 1705, and was buried at Enfield. He married Elizabeth Myddelton, grand-daughter of Sir Hugh. I wish to find out the birth and parentage of the said John Greene and shall be _thankful_, if I may say so much, without adding too much to the length of my Query.

H.T.E.

_Family of Love_.--Referring to Dr. RIMBAULT'S communication on the subject of this sect (Vol. ii., p. 49.), will you allow me to inquire whether there is any evidence that its members deserved Fuller's severe condemnation? Queen Elizabeth might consider them a "damnable sect," if they were believed to hold heterodox opinions in religion and politics; but were their lives or their writings immoral?

N.B.

_Sir Gammer Vans_.--Can any one give any account of a comic story about one "_Sir Gammer Vans_," of whom, amongst other absurdities, it is said "_that his aunt was a justice of peace, and his sister a captain of horse_"? It is alluded to somewhere {90} in Swift's _Letters_ or _Miscellanies_; and I was told by a person whose recollection, added to my own, goes back near a hundred years, that it was supposed to be a _political satire_, and may have been of Irish origin, as I think there is some allusion to it in one of Goldsmith's plays or essays.

C.

* * * * *

REPLIES

PUNISHMENT OF DEATH BY BURNING.

Probably some of the readers of "NOTES AND QUERIES" will share in the surprise expressed by E.S.S.W. (Vol. ii., p. 6.), yet many persons now living must remember when spectacles such as he alludes to were by no means uncommon. An examination of the newspapers and other periodicals of the latter half of the eighteenth century would supply numerous instances in which the punishment of strangling and burning was inflicted; as well in cases of petit treason, for the murder of a husband, as more frequently in cases of coining, which, as the law then stood, was one species of high treason. I had collected a pretty long list from the _Historical Chronicle_ in the earlier volumes of the _Gentleman's Magazine_, but thought it scarcely of sufficient importance to merit insertion in "NOTES AND QUERIES." Perhaps, however, the following extracts may possess some interest: one as showing the manner in which executions of this kind were latterly performed in London, and the other as apparently furnishing an instance of later date than that which Mr. Ross considers the last in which this barbarous punishment was inflicted. The first occurs in the 56th vol. of the Magazine, Part 1. P. 524., under the date of the 21st June, 1786--

"This morning, the malefactors already mentioned were all
executed according to their sentence. About a quarter of an hour
after the platform had dropped, Phoebe Harris, the female
convict, was led by two officers to a stake about eleven feet
high, fixed in the ground, near the top of which was an inverted
curve made of irons, to which one end of a halter was tied. The
prisoner stood on a low stool, which, after the ordinary had
prayed with her a short time, was taken away, and she hung
suspended by the neck, her feet being scarcely more than twelve
or fourteen inches from the pavement. Soon after the signs of
life had ceased, two cartloads of faggots were placed round her
and set on fire; the flames soon burning the halter, she then
sunk a few inches, but was supported by an iron chain passed
over her chest and affixed to the stake."

The crime for which this woman suffered was coining. Probably the method of execution here related was adopted in consequence of the horrible occurrence narrated by Mr. Ross.

In vol. lix. of the same Magazine, Part 1. p. 272, under the date of the _18th of March_, 1789, is an account of the executions of nine malefactors at Newgate; and amongst them,--

"Christian Murphy, alias Bowman, for coining, was brought out
after the rest were turned off, and fixed to a stake, and burnt,
being first strangled by the stool being taken from under her."

From the very slight difference in dates, I am inclined to think that this is the same case with that alluded to by Mr. Ross.

OLD BAILEY

June 24, 1850.

* * * * *

TO GIVE A MAN HORNS. (Vol. i. p. 383.)

Your correspondent L.C. has started a most interesting inquiry, and your readers must, I am sure, join with me in regretting that he should have been so laconic in the third division of his Query; and have failed to refer to, even if he did not quote, the passages from "late Greek," in which "horns" are mentioned as a symbol of a husband's dishonor. The earliest notice of this symbolical use of horns is, I believe, to be found in the _Oneirocritica_ of Artemidorus, who lived during the reign of Hadrian, A.D. 117-138:

[Greek: "Pepi de ippon en to peri agonon logo proeiraeiai. Elege de tis theasameno tini epi kriou kathaemenpo, kai pesonti ex autou ek ton euprosthen, mnaesteuomeno de kai mellonti en autais tais haemerais tous gamous epetelein, proeipein auto hoti hae gunae sou porneusei, kai kata to legomenon, kerata soi poiaesei kai outos apethae, k.t.l."--Artem. _Oneirocritica_, lib. ii, cap. 12.]

See Menage, _Origines de la Langue Françoise_, Paris, 1650, in verb. "Cornard." I have only seen Reiff's edition of Artemidorus, 8vo. Lipsiæ, 1805. His illustrations of the passage (far too numerous to be quoted) seem to be curious, and likely to repay the reader for the trouble of examination. His note commences with a reference to Olaus Borrichius, _Antiqua Urb. Rom. facies_:--

"Alexander Magnus ....successores ejus..... in nummis omnes
cornuti quasi Jovii, honore utique manifesto, donee cornuum
decus in ludibria uxoriorum vertit somnorum interpres
Artimidorus."

On which he observes,--

"Benè. Nam ante Artimidorium nullus, quod sciam, hujus scommatis
mentionem fecit. Quod enim Traug. Fred. Benedict. ad Ciceron.
_Epist. ad Div._ 7.24. ad voc. 'Cipius' conjecit, id paullo
audientus mihi videtur conjecisse."

I have not succeeded in obtaining a sight of this edition of the Epistles. And I should feel much obliged to any one who would quote the "conjecture," and so enable your readers to gauge its "audacity" for themselves. Is it not odd that Reiff should have made no remark on the utter want of connection between the "honor manifestus," and the "ludibria" of Olaus? or on the [Greek: kata to legomenon] of the author that he was illustrating? {91} Artemidorus may certainly have been the first who _recorded_ the _scomma_; but the words [Greek: kata to legomenon] would almost justify us supposing that

"--The horn
Was a crest ere he was born."

Menage (referred to above) evidently lays some stress on the following epigram, as an illustration of the question:--

[Greek: "Ostis eso purous katalambanei ouk agorazon,
Keinou Amaltheias hae gunae esti keras."]

Parmenon. _Anthol._ lib. ii.

But I confess that I am utterly unable to see its point and therefore cannot, of course, trace its connection with the subject. Falstaff, it is true, speaks of the "horn of abundance," but then he assigns it to the husband, and makes the "lightness of the wife shine through it." (_K. Henry IV._ Act i. Sc. 2., on which see Warburton's note.)