Chapter L: H. J. T

"_The right divine of Kings to govern wrong._"--Can any of your correspondents inform me the origin of the line "The right divine of kings to govern wrong?" It is in the _Dunciad_, book iv., placed in inverted commas. Is it there used as a quotation? and, if so, whence is it taken, or was Pope the original author of the lines?

SARPEDON.

[Our correspondent is clearly not aware that this line has already
been the subject of much discussion in our columns. (See Vol.
iii., p. 494.; Vol. iv., pp. 125. 160.) But as the Query has not
yet been solved, and many curious points may depend upon its
solution, we avail ourselves of SARPEDON's inquiry to bring the
matter again under the consideration of our readers.]

_Valentines, when first introduced._--The quantity and variety of Valentines which now occupy our stationers' windows suggest the Query as to their first introduction; whether originally so ornamental, and if by hand; when they first became printed, and what early specimens exist?

EXON.

Minor Queries Answered.

_The Bed of Ware._--In Shakspeare's comedy of _Twelfth Night_, the following words are used by Sir Toby, Act III. Sc. 2.:

"... Although the sheet were big enough for the Bed of Ware in
England."

Query: What is the history of Bed of Ware?

†

[Nares, in his _Glossary_, says, "This curious piece of furniture
is said to be still in being, and visible at the Crown or at the
Bull in Ware. It is reported to be twelve feet square, and to be
capable of holding twenty or twenty-four persons." And he refers
to Chauncy's _Hertfordshire_ for an account of its receiving at
once twelve men and their wives, who lay at top and bottom in this
mode of arrangement; first two men, then two women, and so on
alternately; so that no man was near to any woman but his wife.]

_Merry Andrew._--When did the term _Merry Andrew_ first come into use, and what was the occasion of it?

χ. β.

[Although Strutt, in his _Sports and Pastimes_, has several
allusions to Merry Andrews, he does not attempt to explain the
origin of the term. Hearne, in his _Benedictus Abbas_ (tom. i.
Præf. p. 50. ed. Oxon. 1735, as quoted by Warton in his _English
Poetry_, vol. iii. p. 74. ed. 1840), speaking of the well-known
Andrew Borde, gives it as his opinion that this facetious
physician gave rise to the name of MERRY ANDREW, the fool on the
mountebank's stage: "'Twas from the Doctor's method of using such
speeches at markets and fairs, that in aftertimes those that
imitated the like humorous, jocose language, were styled MERRY
ANDREWS, a term much in vogue on our stages."]

_A Baron's Hearse._--In reading a curious old book, entitled the _Statesmen and Favourites of England since the Reformation_, which was written by David Lloyd, and published in 1665, I was at a loss to know what a _baron's hearse_ might be, and hope therefore that some of your readers may be able to give me some information respecting it. It occurs at page 448., in his observations on the life of Sir Henry Umpton, who, he says, "had allowed him a _baron's hearse_, because he died ambassadour leiger."

JOHN BRANFILL HARRISON.

Maidstone.

[Although a "_baron's hearse_" is not particularly specified in
the very curious _Note upon Funerals_ prefixed by Mr. J. G.
Nichols to the _Diary of Henry Machyn_, edited by him for the
_Camden Society_,--we refer our correspondent to it, as furnishing
much curious illustration of the time and expense formerly
bestowed upon these ceremonials. The word "herse," it may be
remarked, was not then applied in its modern sense, but to a frame
of timber "covered with black, and armes upon the black, ready to
receive the corpse when it had arrived within the church," which
corresponds to what our French neighbours designate the
_Catafalque_.]

_Saint Bartholomew._--Can you favour me with a reference to any works in which any further account is given of this saint, than is contained in the four passages of the New Testament in which his name is mentioned?

What representations are there of him in picture, tapestry, or window, in England or on the continent?

REGEDONUM.

[For further particulars we would refer our correspondent to Mrs.
Jameson's _Sacred and Legendary Art_ (1st edit.), vol. i. pp. 222.
et seq.; and Parker's _Calendar of the Anglican Church
illustrated_, p. 100.]

_Moravian Hymns--Tabitha's Dream_ (Vol. iv., p. 502.).--Are the following lines from Walsh's _Aristophanes_ original; and was the translation ever completed? I quote from memory.

"Audi mæstum, Eliza, questum,
Nuntium audi horridum;
It devota domus tota,
Barathrum orci torridum.

"Simkin _Frater_ desperatur,
Ludit, salit, turpiter;
Ridet Jana sacra fana;
Tabitha _Runt_ deperditur.

"Ego, ut ovis, errans quovis
Scomma nuper omnium,
Ter beata, quæ vocata
Manè sum per somnium;

"Nam procero par Rogero
Spectrum venit coelitus:
Dicens, Ego amore implebo
Te divino penitus."

J. H. L.

[These lines are by Christopher Anstey, Esq., and will be found in
his _New Bath Guide_, letter xiv., where "Miss Prudence B-n-r-d
informs Lady Betty that she has been elected to Methodism by a
Vision." This metrical epistle consists of five more verses, to
which the author has subjoined a Latin translation. See Anstey's
_Works_, p. 82. 4to. 1808. Only Vol. I. of Walsh's translation of
_The Comedies of Aristophanes_ has been published.]

_Story of Ginevra._--Mr. Rogers, in his beautiful poem of _Italy_, has a story which is headed "Ginevra," and which he lays the scene of at Modena. It narrates that a young bride on the day of her wedding, to entertain her young friends, proposes that they should amuse themselves at "hide-and-seek;" and thinking to conceal herself where her companions could not discover her, bethought herself of an old oaken chest in the garret of the house. The lid of this chest unfortunately had a clasp lock, which occasioned her to be completely enshrined; and not being discovered at the time, she must have perished miserably. Many years after, upon pulling the house down the chest was forced open, and the skeleton of the unfortunate lady was, to the consternation of all present, brought to light.

Mr. Rogers, in a note, says, "I believe this story to be founded on fact, though I cannot tell when and where it happened;" and adds, "many old houses _in this country_ lay claim to it."

I should be much obliged to any reader of the "N. & Q." to point out any old seat in England where the above is stated to have happened; if there be any memorial or legend concerning it, or any particulars relating to it.

[--> F.]

P.S. I have, some years ago, read the counterpart of this story in _French_, when the bride proposes _jouer au cache-cache_, with exactly the same melancholy result, but I have not any recollection in what work.

[Two versions of the dramatic narrative of "Ginevra, the Lady
buried alive," are given by Collet in his _Relics of Literature_,
p. 186., in neither of which is there any notice of the
hide-and-seek game, or of the chest with the clasp-lock. The
French account is extracted from the _Causes Célèbres_; and the
Italian, which differs in some particulars, from a work by
Dominico Maria Manni.]

_Play of "Pompey the Great."_--Can any of your readers inform me where the entire translation of this play, from the French of Corneille into English, is to be found?--the first act only, which was translated by Waller, being found in some editions of his works. Also, whether I am right in supposing that this play contains a scene where the dead body of Pompey is discovered on the seashore, and a passage discussing what tomb should be erected to his honour, in deprecation of any monument at all, and ending with: "The eternal substance of his greatness; to that I leave him."

H.

[The title of the play is, _Pompey the Great; a Tragedy_, as it
was acted by the Servants of his Royal Highness the Duke of York.
Translated out of French by certain Persons of Honour, 4to. 1664.
It consists of five acts. Waller translated the first; the others
were translated by the Earl of Dorset, Sir C. Sedley, and Mr.
Godolphin. It will be found in the British Museum and the
Bodleian.]

Replies.

THE THREE ESTATES OF THE REALM.

(Vol. iv., p. 278.)

MR. FRASER'S erudite researches are well worth the space which they occupy. The conclusions to be drawn from them appear quite to support my positions:

1. _The Three Estates of the Realm are, the Spiritualty, the Nobility, and the Commonalty_: on this fact there is no dispute. The last is as certainly the _third_ estate (_tiers état_). But MR. FRASER demurs to my ranking the Spiritual Estate as the _first_, quoting the Collect in the Service for the fifth of November, which runs, "the Nobility, Clergy, and Commonalty." On this point I am not prepared with a decisive authority; but certainly the language and practice of Parliament is with me. The Lords Spiritual are always named _before_ the Lords Temporal, and precedence is allotted to them accordingly; the Archbishops ranking _above_ the Earls (with the more recent distinctions of Marquess and Duke), and the Bishops _above_ the Temporal Barons [Qy. What was the relative rank of the _other_ "prelates" who were formerly in Parliament?]. To the same effect is the language of the celebrated preamble to the act 24 Henry VIII. c. 12.:--

"This realm of England is an empire ... governed by one supreme
head and King ... unto whom a body politic compact of all sorts
and degrees of people divided in terms and by names of
_Spiritualty and Temporalty_, be bounden and owen."

2. _The Convocations of the Clergy_ (which are _two_ synods sitting in three houses) _are no part of the Parliament_. MR. FRASER thinks "this point was settled somewhat late in our history;" but it is proved (I submit) in the very extracts which he produces from ancient statutes. Since there is no doubt that the Clergy sat _regularly_ in Convocation, we should not hear of their _occasional_ presence in the House of Commons had the Convocation been deemed a part of Parliament. It is certain that Convocation never exercised the powers which belong to a chamber of Parliament; even their own subsidies to the Crown were ratified and passed in Parliament before they became _legally_ binding. [See on the whole of this subject, Burn's _Eccl. Law_ (Phillimore's ed.), tit. "Convocation," vol. ii. pp. 19-23.] MR. FRASER has certainly adduced instances in which the assent of the Clergy was given to _particular_ statutes; he might have added the recital of their submission to the Crown, in the Act of Supremacy, 26 Henry VIII. c. 1. He has shown also that clerical proctors were _occasionally_ introduced into the House of Commons, like the judges (he says) in the House of Lords. But this is far from making those proctors, or the Convocation which sent them, a _part_ of the Parliament. Indeed it is shown that they were _not_ by the petition of the Lower House of Convocation (cited by MR. FRASER), in which they desire "_to be admitted to sit in Parliament_ with the House of Commons, according to antient usage." It is clear that they who so petitioned did not esteem themselves to be, as a Convocation, already part of the Parliament. The Convocation would indeed have become the Spiritual Estate in Parliament, if the Clergy had acceded to the wise and patriotic design of King Edward I. But they, affecting an _imperium in imperio_, refused to assemble at the King's writ as a portion of the Parliament of their country, and chose to tax themselves apart in their Provincial Synods, where they used the forms of a separate Parliament for the Church.

3. Hence _the Spiritual Estate was, and still is, represented in Parliament by the Spiritual Lords_. William the Conqueror having converted their sees into baronies, they were obliged, like other tenants _in capite_, to obey the royal summons to _Parliament_. When I called it a mistake to suppose that our Bishops sit in the Upper House only as Barons, I did not mean that they are not so, in the present constitution of Parliament, but that such was not the _origin_ of the prelates being called to share in the legislation of the realm. The other clergy, however, retained their tenure of frankalmoigne, and stood aloof alike from the councils and from the burdens of the state. Attendance in Parliament being chiefly given for the purpose of voting _taxes_, the Commons, as well as the Clergy, looked upon it as a burden more than a privilege. But while the Clergy were quickly compelled to bear their share of the public burdens, their short-sighted policy deprived them of the voice which is now enjoyed by other degrees of Englishmen in the affairs of the country. While Convocation was sitting, the Clergy could make their sentiments known by the Bishops who represented their Estate in Parliament; and we often find the Lower House of Convocation petitioning their lordships to make statements of this kind in their places in Parliament. But in the present suspension of Convocation and the disuse of diocesan synods, the Clergy have lost their weight with the Bishops themselves; and that once formidable Estate of the Realm retains but the shadow of a representation in _Parliament_.

MR. FRASER will find this account of the matter fully borne out by the extract he has given from Bennet's _Narrative_. "The King in full Parliament charged the _Prelates_, Earls, Barons, and other great men, and the Knights of the shire, and the Commons," to give him counsel. Here we have a description of _Parliament_ precisely as it is constituted at this day, and the "Prelates" are the only members of the Spiritualty. Then we read "the Prelates _deliberated_ 'with the clergy by themselves' (_i.e._ in _Convocation_), and the Earls and Barons by themselves, and the Knights and others of the Commons by themselves; and then, 'in full Parliament' (as before), each by themselves, and afterwards all in common answered," _i.e._ the Clergy deliberated in Convocation, but answered _in Parliament_ by their Prelates.

It is true, as MR. FRASER observes, that the majority of the Upper House of Parliament binds the Clergy though all the Bishops should be dissentient, as in Queen Elizabeth's Act of Uniformity. This is the result of the Spiritual Estate voting in the same chamber with the Nobility; and to avoid such a result the Commons very early demanded a chamber to themselves. The Spiritualty is thus yet further reduced under the power of the Temporalty; for "the authority of Parliament" (as Elizabeth's Act of Uniformity words it) is and must be supreme, however defective its representative constitution. It were certainly to be wished that those liberal reformers who were so shocked at _burgage tenures_ and rotten boroughs, would extend their compassion to the disfranchised clergy, some five or six hundred of whom are "represented," without their consent or opinion asked, by a prelate appointed by the Crown.

On the whole, the Convocation is "the true Church of England by representation" (Canon 139) in such matters as belong to the _Church_ as distinguished from the _State_; but in _Parliament_, which is the State, the Spiritualty is represented by the Bishops alone.

I am astonished that MR. FRASER should stumble at my remark, that the Three Estates still assemble in common for the final passing of every act. I had thought that the ceremony of giving the royal assent in full Parliament to bills previously deliberated upon in the two Houses apart, had been sufficiently well known.

CANON EBOR.

P.S.--Since writing the above I have lighted upon the following authorities, confirming the position that the Spiritual Estate is represented in Parliament by the Bishops, and also that it is ranked as the "_First_ Estate of the Realm." Can MR. FRASER adduce _any authority whatever_ for applying that designation to the Clergy in Convocation?

I. In _An Account of the Ceremonies observed at the Coronation of George III._ (London, Kearsley, 1791, 4to.), I read that immediately after the enthronement--

"The bishops performed their homage, and _then_ the temporal
lords, first H. R. H. the Duke of York, and H. R. H. the Duke of
Cumberland, each for himself;"--

the Prelates thus taking precedence even of the blood royal. The same fact is distinctly stated in the accounts appended of the coronations of James II., William and Mary (when the Bishops did homage before Prince George); and I presume that this is the regular order in which the Estates of the Realm do homage to the Sovereign upon that most solemn occasion.

II. When the royal assent is given to any act of grace (which emanates from the Crown in the first instance), the form is for the clerk of parliament to acknowledge the royal favour in these words:

III. "_Les prélats, seigneurs, et commons_, en ce present
parliament assemblés au nom de tout vous autre subjects remercient
très humblement votre Majesté, et prient à Dieu vous donner en
santé bonne vie et longue."

"Strictly speaking, the 'Three Estates of the Realm' consist of,
1st, the Lords Spiritual; 2nd, the Lords Temporal; 3rd, the
Commons. Parliament fully assembled consists of the King, with the
two estates of the Peerage sitting in one house, and the Commons
by their representatives standing below the bar."--Dodd's _Manual
of Dignities, &c._, tit. "Parliament," p. 266.

LEGEND OF ST. KENELM--IN CLIENT COU BACHE.

(Vol. v., p. 79.)

Your correspondent will find the ample story in the _Golden Legend_. It is related more succinctly by Roger of Wendover, who has been followed by later chroniclers. In the legend, as related by Roger of Wendover, the murder of Kenelm is said to have been miraculously notified at Rome by a white dove alighting on the altar of St. Peter's church, bearing a scroll in her bill, which she let fall. The scroll contained, among other things, the following lines:

"In Clente cou bache
Kenelm kine-bearn,
Lith under thorne
Havedes bereaved."

"Qui Latine sonat (says the Chronicler) in pastum vaccarum
Kenelmius regis filius jacet sub spina capite privatus."--_MS.
Douce_, fo. 66. _b._

And afterwards he says:

"De hujus quoque sancte martyris quidam sic ait:
In Clent, sub spina, jacet in _convalle bovina_,
Vertice privatus, Kenelmus rege creatus."

"Cou ba_c_he" has been erroneously printed "cou ba_t_he;" and travestied sometimes into _coubage_.

_Clent_ is the name of the place, a wood according to the _Golden Legend_. _Bach_, or Bache, is a word that had long escaped the glossarists, with the exception of Dr. Whitaker, who says it is "a Mereno-Saxon word, signifying _a bottom_, and that it enters into the composition of several local names in the midland counties."

The passage in _Piers Ploughman_, upon which this is a gloss, occurs at p. 119. of Whitaker's edition:

"Ac ther was weye non so wys (that the way thider couthe
Bote blostred forth as bestes) _over baches_ and bulles."

The word occurs several times in _Layamon_, and on two occasions the later text reads _slade_; in one passage we have it thus:

"Of _dalen_ and of _dunen_
And of _bæcchen_ deopen."

The cognate languages would have led us to a different interpretation of _Bache_. In Suevo-Gothic, _Backe_ is "an ascent or descent, extremitas montes, alias crepido vel ora." Wachter has _Backe_; collis, tumulus; of which _Bühel_, collis clivus, is the diminutive still in use. In Swedish _Backe_, and in Danish _Bakke_, is a hill or rising ground; and Ray, in his _Travels_, has "a _baich_, or languet of land." There has probably been some confusion here, as well as in the two similar words _dune_ and _dene_, for _hill_ and _valley_.

S. W. SINGER.

The legend of the sainted King Kenelm is related at great length, and with very precise references to the various chroniclers in which it is to be found, in the 1st vol. (pp. 721-4.) of MacCabe's _Catholic History of England_. The Saxon couplet in which his death was announced at Rome is very neatly rendered in Butler's _Lives of the Saints_:--

"In Clent cow pasture under a thorn,
Of head bereft, lies Kenelm king-born."

A. M.

ISABEL, QUEEN OF THE ISLE OF MAN.

(Vol. iv., p. 423.)

The lady about whom FANNY inquires, was the wife of William Lord Fitz-Warine, who died in 35 Edward III. (1361), as to whom see _Dugd. Bar._ i. 447. The register of interments and sepulchral inscriptions in the church of the Grey Friars, London, printed in the fifth volume of _Collectanea Topogr. et Geneal._ (the entry is at p. 278.), which I presume to be the authority for the statement in Knight's _London_, does not afford further information as to this lady, who is reckoned amongst the four queens said by Weever (following Stowe) to have been interred in this church. Mr. J. G. Nichols, in his note to the entry referred to, does not add any information about the lady Isabel.

There was a Sybil, who was daughter of William Montacute, Earl of Salisbury and King of Man and Derby, one of the most distinguished characters in the heroic age of Edward III. She married Edmund, the younger of the two sons of Edmund Earl of Arundel, by Alice, sister and heir of John, last Earl of Warren and Surrey, who died in 1347 (_Dugd. Bar._ i. 82.). William Montacute was created Earl of Salisbury 16th March, 1337, and died in 1343, and was entombed in the church of the Friars Carmelites, London (_Weever_, 437.). He was connected with the family of John Earl of Surrey, for it appears from a grant made by the king in 11 Edward III. to William Earl of Salisbury, that he was entitled in reversion to certain hereditaments then held by John de Warren, Earl of Surrey, and Joan his wife (_Collect. Top. et Gen._ vii. 379.). The valiant Montacute, lord of Man, did not die without heirs male, for his son William was his heir; otherwise we might have supposed the dominion of the isle to have devolved on his daughter Sybil or Isabel, who, surviving Edmund her husband, may have married the Lord Fitz-Warine. Can evidence of such connexion be found? I have not met with anything to connect his family with the lordship of the Isle of Man, and am not aware that "Isabel Queen of Man" is mentioned in any record save the sepulchral register of the Grey Friars. I wish some clue could be found to a satisfactory answer.

The other branch of the question proposed by FANNY, viz., when did the Isle of Man cease to be an independent kingdom? can be answered by a short historical statement. So early as the reign of John, its sovereigns rendered fealty and homage to the kings of England. Reginald, styled King of Man, did homage to Henry III., as appears by the extract given from the _Rot. Pat._ 3 Hen. III., by Selden. During a series of years previously, the kings of Man, who seem to have held this isle together with the Hebrides, had done homage to the kings of Norway, and its bishops went to Drontheim for consecration. Magnus, last sovereign of Man of the Norwegian dynasty, died in 1265. From that period the shadowy crown of Man is seen from time to time resting on lords of different races, and its descent is in many periods involved in great obscurity. After the death of Magnus, the island was seized by Alexander III. of Scotland. A daughter and heiress of Reginald sued for it against John Baliol before Edward I. of England as lord paramount of Man (_Rot. Parl._ 31 Edw. I.). In 35 Edw. I., we find Anthony Bek, the warlike Bishop and Count Palatine of Durham, in possession of the isle; but the king of England then claimed to resume it into his own hands, as of the ancient right of the crown. Accordingly, from sundry records it appears that Edw. II. and Edw. III. committed its custody to various persons, and the latter king at length conferred his right to it upon William Montacute, Earl of Salisbury, in consideration, probably, of that valiant Earl having by his arms regained the island from the Scots, who had resumed possession, and of the circumstance that his grandmother, the wife of Simon de Montacute, was sister and heiress of one of the former kings of Man, and related to the lady who had claimed it as her inheritance on the death of Magnus. The son and heir of the grantee sold the isle to Scrope, Earl of Wiltshire, about 16 Rich. II. In the time of Hen. IV., Sir William Scrope forfeited his possessions (_Dugd. Bar._ ii. 250.); and the isle again came to the crown. It was granted to Percy, Earl of Northumberland, by the service of bearing the Lancaster sword on the left shoulder of the king on the day of coronation; was forfeited by Percy; and was thereupon granted by the same king to Sir John Stanley and his heirs, under which grant the Earls of Derby succeeded during many years. It was a subject of a grant to the Stanleys by Queen Elizabeth, and of an act of parliament in the reign of James I., under which the isle became vested in the Duchess Dowager of Athol, as heir of the body of James, seventh Earl of Derby, and ultimately became vested by purchase in the crown. It may be said that during the time of authentic history, the Isle of Man was not an independent kingdom, until the regality was granted by the crown, as already mentioned.

WM. SIDNEY GIBSON.

Newcastle-on-Tyne.

LONG MEG OF WESTMINSTER.

(Vol. ii., pp. 131. 172.)

When I wrote my note upon _Long Meg of Westminster_, I was not aware of the following passage in Fuller's _Worthies_ (Westminster, edit. 1662, p. 236.):

"_As long as Megg of Westminster._--This is applyed to persons
very tall, especially if they have _hop-pole-height_, wanting
_breadth_ proportionable thereunto. That such a _gyant-woman_ ever
was in Westminster, cannot be proved by any good witness (I pass
not for a late lying _pamphlet_), though some in proof thereof
produce her gravestone on the _south-side_ of the _cloistures_,
which (I confess) is as long, and large, and entire _marble_ as
ever I beheld. But be it known, that no _woman_ in that age was
interred in the _cloistures_, appropriated to the sepultures of
the _abbot_ and his _monkes_. Besides, I have read in the records
of that _Abby_ of an infectious year, wherein many monkes dyed of
the _plague_, and were all buried in one grave; probably in this
place, under this _marble monument_. If there be any truth in the
proverb, it rather relateth to a great gun, lying in the tower,
commonly call'd _Long Megg_; and in troublesome times (perchance
upon _ill May day_ in the raigne of King _Henry_ the eighth),
brought to _Westminster_, where for a good time it continued. But
this _Nut_ (perchance) deserves not the cracking."

Grose, in his _Provincial Glossary_, inserts among the _Local Proverbs_, "As Long as Megg of Westminster," with the following note:--

"This is applied to very tall slender persons. Some think it
alluded to a long gun, called Megg, in troublesome times brought
from the tower to Westminster, where it long remained. Others
suppose it to refer to an old fictitious story of a monstrous tall
virago called Long Megg of Westminster, of whom there is a small
penny history, well known to school-boys of the lesser sort. In it
there are many relations of her prowess. Whether there ever was
such a woman or not, is immaterial; the story is sufficiently
ancient to have occasioned the saying. Megg is there described as
having breadth in proportion to her height. Fuller says, that the
large grave-stone shown on the south side of the cloister in
Westminster Abbey, said to cover her body, was, as he has read in
an ancient record, placed over a number of monks who died of the
plague, and were all buried in one grave; that being the place
appointed for the sepulture of the abbots and monks, in which no
woman was permitted to be interred."--Edit. 1811, p. 207.

I shall not enter into the question, as to whether any "tall woman" of "bad repute" was or was not buried in the cloisters of Westminster, as it is very likely to turn out, upon a little inquiry, that the _original_ "long Meg" was a "great gun," and not a creature of flesh and blood.

"Long Meg" is also the name of a large gun preserved in the castle of Edinburgh; and, what is somewhat extraordinary, the great bombard forged for the siege of Oudenarde, in 1382, now in the city of Ghent, is called by the towns-people "Mad Meg."

A series of stones, situated upon an eminence on the east side of the river Eden, near the village of Little Salkeld, are commonly known as "Long Meg and her Daughters."

These notices, at any rate, are suggestive, and may be the means of elucidating something perhaps more worth the knowing.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

THE INTRODUCTION OF STOPS, ETC.

(Vol. v., p. 1.)

My enquiry into the use of stops in the early days of typography will, if it prove nothing else, show that the _Tablet of Memory_ is not an authority to be depended upon on that subject. I have arranged the authorities which I have consulted in chronological order.

1480. _Epistola F. Philelphi ad Sextum IV._, printed at Rome.

1493. Politian's Latin translation of _Herodian_, printed at
Bologna.

In both these books the colon and period are used, but neither the comma nor semicolon.

1523. _Dialogi Platonis_, printed at Nuremberg.

Here I find the comma and period, and also the note of interrogation, but not the colon or semicolon.

1523. _Ascensius declynsons, with the playne Expositor_, without
date, place, or printer's name.

This publication is ascribed by Johnson to Wynkyn de Worde, and therefore printed between 1493 and 1534. I find in it the following amusing passage relative to the ancient art of punctuation:--

"_Of the Craft of Poynting._

"There be fiue maner poynts, and divisions most uside with cunnyng
men: the which, if they be wel usid, make the sentens very light,
and esy to understond both to the reder and the herer, and they be
these: _virgil_, _come_, parenthesis, playne poynt, and
interrogatif. A _virgil_ is a sclender stryke: lenynge forwarde
this wyse _,_ betokynynge a lytyl, short rest without any
perfetnes yet of sentens: as betwene the five poyntis a fore
rehersid. A _come_ is with tway tittels this wyse _:_ betokynynge
a longer reste: and the sentens yet either is imperfet: or els, if
it be perfet: ther cummith more after, longyng to it: the which
more comynly cannot be perfet by itself without at the lest summat
of it: that gothe a fore. A _parenthesis_ is with tway crokyd
virgils: as an olde mone, and a new bely to bely: the whyche be
set theton afore the begynyng, and thetother after the latyr ende
of a clause; comyng within an other clause: that may be perfet:
thof the clause, so comyng betwene: wer awey, and therfore it is
sowndyde comynly a note lower, than the utter clause. yf the
sentens cannot be perfet without the ynner clause, then stede of
the first crokyde virgil a streght virgil wol do very wel; and
stede of the later must nedis be a come. A _playne poynt_ is with
won tittel this wyse _._ and it cumeth after the ende of al the
whole sentens betokynynge a longe reste. An _interrogatif_ is with
tway tittels, the upper rysing this wyse _?_ and it cumeth after
the ende of a whole reason: wheryn ther is sum question axside.
the whiche ende of the reson, triyng as it were for an answere:
risyth upwarde. we have these rulis in englishe: by cause they be
as profytable, and necessary to be kepte in every mother tonge, as
in latyn. Sethyn we (as we wolde to god: every precher wolde do)
have kept owre rulis both in owre englishe, and latyn: what nede
we, sethyn owre own be sufficient unogh: to put any other
exemplis."

It is evident that what the writer of this book calls the _virgil_, is our comma: and his _come_, our colon. There is nothing, however, allusive to our semicolon.

1541. Cranmer's _Bible_. Here we find the comma, colon, and
period, and also the note of interrogation, but not the semicolon.

1597. Gerard's _Herbal_ contains the comma, colon, semicolon, and
period.

1604. First part of Shakspeare's _Henry IV._, 4to. Here the comma,
colon, and period are used, but not the semicolon.

1631. Baker's _Well-spring of Science_ also uses the comma, colon,
and period, but not the semicolon.

1636. Record's _Ground of Arts_. Here all the stops now in use are
found.

1639. Cockeram's _English Dictionary_ defines the comma, colon,
and period, but not the semicolon. The latter, however, is _used_
in the preface.

1650. Moore's _Arithmetic_ employs all the four common stops.

1670. Blount's _Glossographia_ defines the four common stops.

Generally speaking, the stops now in use may be found in books from about 1630. So much concerning punctuation.

P. T.

PAPERS OF PERJURY.

(Vol. ii., pp. 182. 316.)

Your correspondent S. R. will find that in Ireland, as well as in England, the custom prevailed, during the reign of Elizabeth, of inflicting a punishment for various crimes, by the public exposure of the delinquents with papers about their heads. The following "sentence" for adultery, which has been transcribed from the _Book of the Commissioners of Ecclesiastical Causes_ (deposited amongst the records of the Court of Exchequer in Ireland, 1570-1574, p. 22.), goes so fully into detail, that it may supply to S. R. the graphic account which he requires:--

"First, that he (Henry Hunchcliffe) shall not come into, nor kepe,
nor use the company of Constance Kyng hereafter, and shalbe bounde
to the same effecte in a bond of recognizance of a 100_l._,
otherwise to be committed to prison; there to be kept in such sort
that neyther he to hir, nor she to him, shall have access in
anywise. Secondlie, that upon Saterdaie next enseweing at ix of
the clocke in the mornyng, he, the said Eyland, _alias_
Hunchcliffe, shall come unto the crosse in the highe strete of
Dublin, having on a white shete from his sholders downe to the
ground, rounde aboute him, and a paper about his head whereupon
shalbe written _for adultery leavyng his wife in England alyve and
marryeng w'th an other here_, and a white wande in his hand, and
then and there goe up unto the highest staire of the crosse, and
there sitte duryng all the time of the markette untill yt be
ended; and furder decreed that Constance Kyng shall not hereafter
in anywise resort or have accesse unto him, or kepe him company,
and to performe the same they toke hir othe w'ch she gave upon the
holie evangelists; and furder, after y't Hunchcliffe hath done his
penance as above they decreed he shold goe to prison againe, there
to remayne and abide untill y't shall please the commissioners to
take furder order in this cause."

The book contains other entries of a similar kind.

J. F. F.

Dublin.

Replies to Minor Queries.

_Rev. Thomas Adams, D.D._ (Vol. v., p. 80.).--In addition to the sermons enumerated, I possess two more in small quarto:--1. "Preached at the triennial visitation of the R. R. father in God, the Lord Bishop of London, in Christchurch: text, 15 Actes 36: London, 1625." 2. "_The holy choice._ at the chappell by Guildhall, at the solemnitie of the election of the Rt. Hon'ble the Lord Maior of London: text, 1 Actes 24. 1625."

E. D.

_Wiggan, John_ (Vol. v., p. 78.).--John Wiggan, M.D., the editor of _Aretæus_ (Oxon. fol. 1723), was in 1721 a student of Christ Church.

M. D.

"_Poets beware!_" (Vol. v., p. 78.).--The words

"Poets beware! never compare
Women to aught in earth or in air," &c.

are the first of a song by Thomas Haynes Bayly, written for and arranged to music by T. A. Rawlings, in _The Musical Bijou_ for 1830, edited by F. H. Burney, published by Goulding and d'Almaine, 20. Soho Square.

E. B. R.

_Traditions of Remote Periods, &c._ (Vol. v., p. 77.).--It is a well-known fact that the proud Duke of Somerset, and Prince George, his successor as a Knight of the Garter, occupied the space between 1684 and 1820. The anecdote, however, related of George IV. by your intelligent correspondent C. cannot be correct, because _the blue ribbon was conferred upon Lord Moira by the Prince Regent in June, 1812_, who advanced him in 1816 to the Marquisate of Hastings, _and George III. did not die till 1820_. The story, therefore, must belong to the period of the Regency, and not to the commencement of the reign of George IV.

BRAYBROOKE.

Audley End.

There is some error in the statement of C. George IV. succeeded to the throne 29th January, 1820, and the vacancy in the Order of the Garter occasioned by his accession he gave to the Marquess of Buckingham, who was elected 12th June that year. The Earl of Moira was elected and invested in 1812, upon the vacancy created by the death of William, fifth Duke of Devonshire, and was the third knight made during the Regency. (See Beltz's _Succession of the Knights_, pp. ccxi. and ccxiv.) Lord Moira never occupied the stall of George IV., which before his accession was that of Prince of Wales.

At the time of the death of the Duke of Somerset, in 1748, there were several vacancies; and on the 22d June, 1749, George Prince of Brunswick, afterwards King George III., was elected in the room of John Earl Powlett, and John Earl Granville was elected in the room of the Duke of Somerset. (See _Beltz_, cciii.)

G.

_Heraldical MSS. of Sir Henry St. George Garter_ (Vol. v., p. 59.).--M--N, in "N. & Q." of the 17th ultimo, wishes to know what became of these valuable MSS. I understand that, just before the auction at Enmore Castle in 1831, these MSS. passed into the possession of the late Sir Matthew Tierney, Bart., by private contract, or some arrangement of the kind. And most likely they now are in the possession of his brother, Sir Edward Tierney, Bart., who for a long period was the confidential friend, as well as the land and law agent of the fourth Earl of Egmont: in any case, he is the only person who can give M--N the information he requires respecting them: and, if written to on the subject, I have no doubt will communicate all he knows about him.

E. A. G.

Richmond.

_Dr. John Ash_ (Vol. v., p. 12.).--I am able to afford your correspondent F. RUSSELL but little information respecting Dr. John Ash; but that is authentic, being taken from an entry in his own handwriting in the Admission Book of Trinity College. It is to the following effect:

"Ego Joannes Ash, Fil Josephi Ash, gen. (generosi) de Coventria in
Com. Warwick: natus ibidem annos circiter 16 admissus sum com.
infer. ordinis (commersalis inferioris ordinis) sub tutamine
magistri Geering 4'o Die Martii, 1739-40."

There is no other John Ash admitted between 1737 and 1764; therefore it may be presumed this is the same person.

T. W.

Trin. Coll. Oxon.

P.S.--I find by the corrected list of Oxford graduates, just published, that Dr. Ash took his degrees of B.A. Oct. 21, 1743; M.A. Oct. 17, 1746; B.M. Dec. 6, 1750; D.M. July 3, 1754.

_Inveni Portum_ (Vol. v., p. 64.).--The words "Inveni portum" remind me of Byron's answer to a friend, who claimed his congratulations upon receiving a valuable appointment; "for," said he, "I may now say with truth, 'Portum inveni.'" "I am very glad to hear it," replied Byron, "for you have finished many bottles of mine."

NOTE.

_Goldsmith_ (Vol. v., p. 63.).--Thanks to your sensible correspondent A. E. B.! A _true poet_ always puts the right word in the right place, and A. E. B.'s good taste assured him of Goldsmith's propriety.

We have it upon record, that Burke asked Goldsmith what he meant by the word "slow," in the first line of his _Traveller_--

"Remote, unfriended, melancholy, _slow_."

"Do you mean, Dr. Goldsmith, _tardiness of locomotion_?" "Yes," said Goldsmith. "No!" said Johnson, "you mean no such thing, Sir. You mean _vacuity of action_."

A _true_ poet ever puts the _right_ word in the _right_ place. A. E. B. has put the argument rightly, and it is to be regretted that he has been _obliged_ to do so. To alter a word of Goldsmith's, is to gild refined gold.

JAMES CORNISH.

_Lords Marchers_ (Vol. v., p. 30.).--See _Historical Account of the Principality of Wales_, by Sir J. Dodridge, Kt.--_Discourse against the Jurisdiction of the King's Bench over Wales_; printed among Hargrave's _Law Tracts_. The author was Charles Pratt, Esq., afterwards Lord Chancellor Camden: see Hargr. _Jurisc. Exerc._, vol. ii. p. 301.--Coke, 4 _Inst._ 244.--Coke's _Entries_, 549.--_Harl. MSS._ 141. 1220. contain copies of _A Treatise of Lordships Marchers in Wales_.

H. S. M.

_Foreign Ambassadors_ (Vol. iv., p. 442.).--The information solicited in p. 442. has, in some degree, been subsequently given at page 477.; but, I believe, much more distinctly in the _Gentleman's Magazine_ for November and December, 1840, so far, at least, as embracing the French ambassadors to the English court from the fourteenth to the eighteenth century. A personal account of each is there given in reply to the inquiry of Mr. John Holmes of the British Museum, and under the signature of

J. R. (Cork.)

_Church, whence derived_ (Vol. v., p. 79.).--_Theophilus Anglicanus_ supplies a sufficient answer to MR. GEORGE STEPHENS' inquiries respecting the word _church_.

There can be no doubt about its etymology. The only question of difficulty seems to be, _why_ did the church of Rome adopt the word ἐκκλησία from the Greeks, and _not_ κυριακὴ? Was it that they had a word of their own, viz. _Dominica_? or was it, that _ecclesia_ was already a naturalised word? However this may be, Dr. Wordsworth bases upon the fact an important argument, tending to show that the _Britons_ did not receive their christianity in the first instance from Rome:

"We may appeal," he says (Part II. chap. ii.), "to the English
word _church_, which is derived, as has been before said, from the
Greek κυριακὴ, a term which no Roman ever applied to the
church (which he called _ecclesia_, and by no other name); and it
is not credible, that, if the British church had been derived from
Rome, it should have been designated by a title alike foreign to
Romans and to Britons themselves."

If this argument be of any value in relation to _Britain_, it (of course) would not be without its worth to those who ascribe the primary conversion of the Teutonic countries, which MR. STEPHENS mentions, to the early British and Irish missionaries.

J. SANSOM.

_Cross-legged Effigies_ (Vol. iv., p. 382.).--W. H. K. inquires for the latest known example of a cross-legged effigy. The latest I have met with is the very beautiful slab at Norton-Brize, Oxfordshire, to Sir John Daubigné. He appears in plate armour of the earliest kind, and wears the camail, and is surrounded by an inscription, with the date 1346. It is engraved by Skelton, and there is also an admirable woodcut of it in Boutell's _Christian Monuments_, part ii. p. 141., a work of which the continuation is much to be desired. That this monument was not put down in Sir John Daubigné's lifetime, and the date of his death filled up afterwards, is evident from the perfect correspondence of the costume with the date of 1346. But it is probably the last example left us of the cross-legged position, and even then out of fashion.