Chapter XIX: The Commission (3)

Mr. Worthington: "Now, Mr. Pullman, when you see the present unrest of labor, and the possible consequences, what objection had you to distributing a portion of the profits or increasing wages a little?"

Mr. Pullman: "The reason is embodied in my statement, it is a matter of opinion, and then there is the principle involved. It is impossible under the circumstances."

Mr. Worthington: "Impossible, what is impossible? Could not arbitration determine the principle involved?"

Mr. Pullman: "As president of the company I do not care to give any other."

Mr. Worthington then introduced a lease used between the company and its tenants. This provided that the tenants should make all repairs to plumbing, water pipes, gas, etc., and to surrender premises in good repair. When such repairs were made by the company, the amount was deducted from their salaries.

Mr. Worthington: "Now, the company does not make any repairs, does it?"

Mr. Pullman: "The company repairs the roofs or outside of the houses, I am not familiar with the details."

Mr. Worthington: "But by the lease the tenants are bound to make all the repairs, it is stipulated that the tenant shall repay the company for all repairs made."

Mr. Pullman: "I will have to refer you to some official of the company." (Laughter.)

Mr. Worthington: "The rent is deducted monthly, is it not?"

Mr. Pullman: "I am unable myself to identify that lease you handed me."

Mr. Pullman concluded with the statement that the company declined to employ any member of the American Railway Union.

Mr. Worthington again asked if the company could not afford to pay an increased scale of wages and this Mr. Pullman refused.

Mr. Kernan: "When the general cut in salaries was made, was your salary reduced?"

Mr. Pullman: "No." (Laughter.)

Mr. Kernan: "That of officials, superintendents or foremen?"

Mr. Pullman: "No."

Mr. Wickes then took the stand. His evidence--which in main was documentary--embraced every detail of the strike. He admitted having promised members of the grievance committee that they would not be discharged, and said the agreement had not been broken by him. From statistics presented by Mr. Wickes, he claimed that the average rate of wages paid for the year ending in April, 1893, was $2.63 per day and for the same succeeding period $2.03, which fact, he said, disproved of statements made by strikers.

In the case of Miss Jennie Curtis the books showed that her father had owed but $17.00 at the time of his death, which sum had never been repaid the company.

Blacklisting, he said, had never been practiced by the Pullman Company, although the foreman kept a list of discharged men. He also said that the company had been losing $500 per month by furnishing water. He said that the men were advised by Mr. Howard not to strike.

Referring to rent and wages, he did not consider that there was any connection between them. He said: "We paid the market price for labor and we asked the market price for houses." He contended that wages were regulated by the law of supply and demand. We go into the market to buy labor, as we go into the market to buy other things. If a manufacturer by reason of improved machinery, of special facilities, or greater ability in securing supplies or disposing of products, or by more effective handling of men, should be making larger profits than his competitors and should increase wages, he would deprive himself of all the benefits of these advantages which are his and to which his employes do not contribute, and would make no more than the manufacturer who conducted his business in a shiftless manner or without ability, energy or enterprise.

Mr. Wickes concluded his testimony, and Inspector Nicholas Hunt was called.

He testified that from June 27th, or the time his force was first called to protect railroad property at various points, up to July 3d, there had been no serious difficulty. When asked by Mr. Worthington if he had seen railroad men take part in the destruction of property. He replied:

"I have not seen one railroad man interfere in any way."

A. J. Sullivan, general manager of the Illinois Central, was next to testify.

He went into details concerning the trouble on his road. He was certain that the acts of violence were committed by the strikers although he did not witness it personally.

H. R. Saunders, general yardmaster for the Rock Island, testified for the company in relation to the way the strike was ordered on the Rock Island. He charged that Mr. Howard, vice-president of the American Railway Union, with using abusive and violent language. Epithets applied to Pullman and the expression, "if scabs take your places kill them with a coupling pin," was declared to have been used.

W. D. Fuller, agent for the Rock Island road at Blue Island, testified that he was present, and thought Mr. Howard's speech was very violent, he applied epithets to Pullman, thought he ought to be hanged, and that he (Howard) would like to head a crowd to do it.

L. A. Camp, a yardmaster for the Rock Island, was also at the meeting and heard no violent language used.

G. D. Cruelly also a yardmaster for the same road, thought the strike at Blue Island was due to Mr. Howard and Mr. Debs. Mr. Howard in particular and Mr. Debs incidentally. Mr. Howard was violent and abusive in his language. The witness is a member of the Order of Railway conductors but not of the American Railway Union.

Fred Baumbach testified to hearing both Debs and Howard speak, but did not remember of hearing either one of them using violent language.

Otto Moriling, a tailor, testified to being present. He did not hear any violent language used except that Mr. Howard applied an epithet to Pullman.

James Simmons also heard Howard speak, but did not hear him counsel violence.

Alexander Quasso said he was present when Howard spoke but heard no violence counseled except some reference by Mr. Howard to the justice of hanging Pullman.

Vice President Howard now took the stand and testified regarding his speech at Blue Island. He said:

"I want to begin by saying that among railroad men particularly trainmen, it has been a constant habit and practice and has been for years, to use a certain class of expressions which literally are very offensive in the lightest and most ordinary way, and without meaning anything in particular about them. Every old railroad man can bear me out in this. A railroad man will address his best friend with a most offensive epithet uttered in a most cordial way and intended to express cordiality, so that the term I applied to Pullman, has among railroad men a technical meaning, very broad it is true and expressing according to the circumstances very different sentiments. But its use is so common and I may say usual, that it has altogether lost the meaning it has, among others than railroad men.

"I was telling them the condition of things at Pullman. I told them of incidents that have been testified to before this commission. I was trying to array them against Pullman. I used the language of railroad men and I applied to Mr. Pullman the epithet I am charged with using. But I used it in the railroad sense. I said he ought to be hung, that is another railroad expression.

"I did not say that I would like to take part in the hanging or lead a party to hang him. As to the coupling pin expression, what I said at Blue Island, I have said at hundreds of other places, it was this I told them, it was often said that capital would always defeat labor. I denied this. I said that capital could only whip labor when it could divide it, and make labor defeat itself. That in the last few years a wave of religious intolerance had swept over this country, and the representatives of the railroads had taken advantage of it as a means of dividing labor. I gave instances where some emissary of the railroads would come in, and going to the protestant members, instill distrust in their minds of the Roman Catholic members, and then going to the Roman Catholics and creating distrust of the Protestants. I urged them not to allow themselves to be divided in the labor movement by questions of religious differences, and I said that if any of those sleuths, and I may have said sleuths of hell, come into this movement to array you against each other in a question of religion, I hope some one will have the nerve to hit him on the head with a round end coupling pin and send him to his last long sleep.

"I said nothing about injuring men who came to take their places. I told them if they struck, to put on their good clothes and keep away from the railroad property. If the railroads could get men to run their roads, let them, but if the men stood together, were united, the roads couldn't get men and would have to yield.

"Far from advising violence, I have always advised against it. I have some questions I would like the commission to put to the general managers, either here, or in Washington. They are these:

"1st. Were not the general managers whipped on July 5, before there had been any violence to array public opinion against the strikers, and before the troops were here and by their presence provoked violence?

"2d. Did your company have a contract with the government to carry the mails?

"3d. Was the contract dependent upon your ability to carry Pullmans?

"4th. Did your contract with the Pullman Company require you to refuse to transport mail if you left the Pullmans off?

"5th. Did the strikers interfere to prevent carrying of the mails if you left the Pullmans off?

"6th. Could you not have carried mails, if you did not insist in hauling Pullmans?

"7th. Was your contract with the government less binding on you than your contract with the Pullman Company, or was either dependent on the other?"

Mr. Kernan had no objection to the questions being put to the general managers, but did not think, under the circumstances, the commission could prolong its sitting in order to ask them.

Mayor John P. Hopkins was then called and cordially shook hands with the commissioners before taking the witness chair. His examination was conducted by Judge Worthington as follows:

Mr. Worthington: "As mayor of the city and the actual head of the police department, please state the general conduct of the police force during the strike and the conditions attending the strike."

Mr. Hopkins: "The evening of June 25, Mr. Ellsworth, who claimed to represent the different railroads, called on me and said he understood a boycott was to be enforced on all roads hauling Pullman cars. He said he understood I was going to Springfield that night and wished me to give instructions to the chief of police and arrange for the protection of the roads. So far as I know, the police did all the work required of them, and I have ample assurance of that fact from railway officials.

"This condition existed until July 5. That morning Mr. Wright of the Rock Island called at my office and claimed that riotous mobs were interfering with the operation of trains, overturning cars, etc. I went with him to the office of Mr. Cable of the Rock Island road, where we discussed the matter. Mr. Cable said he thought the police were not doing their duty, but from the information I had received, I was confident that such was not the case. I then suggested that Mr. Cable go with me to the scene of the alleged trouble, but he said that he did not think it safe to do so. I proposed the same plan to Mr. Wright, but he made the same objection. I then saw the corporation counsel and suggested the same plan, which he accepted. A switch engine was secured and we went. A crowd of probably 3,000 or 3,500 persons, mostly women and children, had assembled at that point. On the tracks at Thirty-seventh street four trains were standing, and just north of them an empty freight car was lying across the tracks. Half an hour after we arrived, a wrecking crew, accompanied by young Newell, Attorney Wright, and other officials came up, and they started to take the car off the track. On going down we had found the tracks entirely unobstructed, but on going back found ten or fifteen overturned cars. I thought the police did all they could to prevent such an occurrence. I stayed about two hours, when I came back and issued the proclamation to the people which was published. I also instructed the chief of police to suspend all officers who had been stationed at the crossings where the cars were overturned.

"That night I wired the governor at Springfield, that the militia, which had been preparing to go into camp there, had better be retained in the city, as it might be advisable to call out the troops within twenty-four hours. The same night about 10:30, I was at the Hyde Park police station when I heard that the "Diamond Special" had been stopped at Kensington and that large crowds had congregated there. Inspector Hunt sent re-inforcements to that point, and when I retired everything seemed quiet. Friday morning, July 6, which was the first time the railroads had intimated that the protection afforded them was inadequate, I heard from Kensington that there was trouble in the Rock Island and Chicago & Eastern Illinois roads. I then called on the governor for five regiments of the state militia. Saturday, at 3:30 P. M., some trouble occurred at Forty-seventh and Loomis streets, where a mob had collected. The state troops fired and killed one man, two others dying afterward. There was no trouble after that, so far as I know."

Mayor Hopkins then read a number of communications from railway officials expressing satisfaction in regard to the perfect protection afforded by the police during the strike. Among these were letters from President Marvin Hughitt of the Northwestern, General Superintendent Sullivan of the Illinois Central, President Thomas of the Chicago & Western Indiana, and others. Several officers who were deemed worthy of promotion for their good services at critical times were mentioned in a letter from a Santa Fe official. The mayor then continued his testimony as follows:

"So far as the management of the police was concerned I think it was excellent. I wish to state that the Blue Island police are governed by the officials of that town. The word police has been referred to indiscriminately in the testimony, leaving the impression that Blue Island was under the jurisdiction of the city.

"There was very little resistance to the police. The strikers treated me all right, and the crowds seemed good-natured. There was some resistance to the police, I believe, on the night of July 7, at Ashland avenue and the Northwestern tracks. The police fired and killed a woman on the roof of a house in the neighborhood."

Mr. Worthington: "How many were killed in all or who have since died in consequence of injuries received?"

Mr. Hopkins: "About seven, I think in Chicago. Three at Forty-seventh and Loomis streets, one at Kensington, the woman just mentioned, and I think two others."

Mr. Worthington: "Please state about the militia engaged during the strike."

Mr. Hopkins: "I will read my copy of the telegram to the governor to which I referred. The next day I again telegraphed the governor suggesting that five regiments be placed at the disposal of the city. In one half hour I received an answer stating that the militia had been ordered to report. There was virtually the entire militia of the state in service, probably 2,000 men. The last detachment went home August 6."

Mr. Worthington: "You have stated that you gave orders to suspend officers at certain crossings. Why was that?"

Mr. Hopkins: "The officers complained that people jumped over the fences and that they could not prevent them. The Rock Island road is protected on each side of the right-of-way by low fences, and empty freight cars were standing for many blocks on the side track next the fence. The people who lived near the tracks could easily jump the fence unseen and tip the cars over. I ordered the men suspended for the general effect it would have on the force."

Mr. Worthington: "I would like to ask a general question. As mayor of the city, do you think the police, or a portion of them, either directly or indirectly, took a part in promoting the strike in any way?"

Mr. Hopkins: "I would not deny that some of the men had sympathy with the strikers. I am in sympathy myself with the Pullman strikers."

Mr. Worthington: "But do you think the police did their duty?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir. Several times Mr. Eagan telephoned that trouble was occurring at some point. When officers would investigate they would find no trouble at all. There are 2,100 miles of railway in the city limits; there are 1,360 trains daily, 160 railroad crossings, and 3,000 surface railroad crossings. The police force for this year is scheduled at 1,928 patrolmen. There are 186 square miles of territory in the city and you can readily see that every point could not be covered at once. The amount of violence was not very great. In Pullman not one pane of glass was broken in the three months of the strike. I live in Pullman myself."

Mr. Worthington: "You may state whether at any time you advised the American Railway Union or its members to strike?"

Mr. Hopkins: "No, sir."

Mr. Worthington: "Did the General Manager's Association either during or since the strike request the city to arrest any individual strikers or suggest such arrest?"

Mr. Hopkins: "No, sir; I think that President Newell swore out a warrant for a man named Hall, but the information was furnished by the city."

Mr. Worthington: "Has the American Railway Union brought in any information of this character?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir; in the case of Hall, who was charged with turning over cars; also in other cases, which upon investigation we concluded not to take up."

Mr. Worthington: "Then the disposition of the American Railway Union appears to have been to assist the city?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir."

Mr. Worthington: "During or before the strike were there any overtures made in regard to arbitration?"

Mr. Hopkins: "I met Mr. Pullman at lunch in the Chicago club one day and he told me of a meeting his employes had held. Then July 3, there was a further talk about protecting the works on the following day when trouble might be expected. There was some talk about a settlement, but the company seemed to regard the strikers as law breakers. Then a committee of the council was appointed, and word sent to Mr. Eagan, but he said he couldn't come. Then the committee called at Mr. Pullman's office to discuss the question of arbitration--or if there was anything to arbitrate. The answer received there was that the company refused to arbitrate. July 11, I received a telegram from Mayor Pingree of Detroit, asking if I would act with him in endeavoring to settle the strike. He had communications from fifty other mayors giving their views on the question. We saw Mr. Wickes, Mr. Runnels and Mr. Brown, and had a long interview. Mayor Pingree took the point that arbitration should be tested, and made a strong argument. He is a member of a shoe manufacturing firm and related his own experience in a strike of nine months' duration. Mr. Wickes, Mr. Runnels and Mr. Brown withdrew and prepared a statement giving the position of the company and declining the proposition. On July 13, Mr. Debs, Mr. Howard, and Mr. Kelliher prepared a communication to the railway managers offering to settle the strike if the railroads would re-instate the men as individuals or such men as had committed no overt acts. With Mr. McGillen I went over with the document to Mr. St. John. What occurred there has been published. Now, while I think of it, I want to say that the statement published in some papers that Mr. St. John told me I should not act as a messenger boy for the American Railway Union is false. I deny most emphatically that Mr. St. John used those words. I should not have allowed it. This was the last action on my part to bring about a settlement.

"It has been said that I protested against the presence of the federal troops in the city. I do say that the railways had never complained that the civil authorities were unable to protect the roads. I have never protested against the federal troops and think they did some good."

Mr. Worthington: "It has been stated in the press that you applied to Mr. Debs to move trains."

Mr. Hopkins: "That is not true. A man named Brenock has a contract with the city to remove dead animals, the place where they are rendered being over the Indiana state line. He called upon me and said that there was a train load of dead animals at the stock yards which could not be pulled out; the men had quit work. I said I thought a volunteer crew of trainmen could be procured which would do the work. I sent my secretary to the American Railway Union with that request. A crew went down to the yards and manned the train. When it proceeded some distance it was discovered that a train load of dressed beef had been substituted and the train crew abandoned the cars. The dead animals then remained where they were for several days."

Mr. Kernan: "Then this action was simply a plan to guard the public health?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir; simply to remove the dead animals from the city limits."

At the conclusion of Mayor Hopkins' testimony, President Carroll D. Wright arose and declared the commission formally adjourned until Wednesday, Sept. 26, at Washington, D. C.