Chapter VI: The Qu'appelle Treaty, or Number Four (2)

THE GAMBLER--"I have understood plainly before what he (the Hudson Bay Company) told me about the Queen. This country that he (H. B. Co.) bought from the Indians let him complete that. It is that which is in the way. I cannot manage to speak upon anything else, when the land was staked off it was all the Company's work. That is the reason I cannot speak of other things."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"We don't understand what you mean. Will you explain?"

THE GAMBLER--"I know what I have to tell you. Who surveyed this land? Was it done by the Company? This is the reason I speak of the Company, why are you staying in the Company's house?"

LIEUT.-GOVERNOR MORRIS--"The Company have a right to have certain lands granted them by the Queen, who will do what is fair and just for the Company, for the Indians, for the Half-breeds, and for the whites. She will make no distinction. Whatever she promises she will carry out. The Company are are nothing to her except that they are carrying on trade in this country, and that they are subjects to her just as you are. You ask then why I went to the Company's house? I came here not at my own pleasure. I am not so strong as you are. I never slept in a tent in my life before and was only too glad to find a home to go to."

The Gambler--"I understand now. And now this Company man. This is the Company man (pointing to Mr. McDonald). This is the thing I cannot speak of. The Cree does not know, the Saulteaux does not know. It was never known when this was surveyed, neither by the Cree nor the Saulteaux."

Lieut.-Gov. Morris--"The Company are trading in this country and they require to have places to carry out their trade. If the Queen gives them land to hold under her she has a perfect right to do it, just as she will have a perfect right to lay off lands for you if you agree to settle on them. I am sorry for you; I am afraid you have been listening to bad voices who have not the interests of the Indians at heart. If because of these things you will not speak to us we will go away with hearts sorry for you and for your children, who thus throw back in our faces the hand of the Queen that she has held out to you."

The Gambler--"It is very plain who speaks; the Crees are not speaking, and the Saulteaux is speaking, if the Queen's men came here to survey the land. I am telling you plainly. I cannot speak any other thing till this is cleared up. Look at these children that are sitting around here and also at the tents, who are just the image of my kindness. There are different kinds of grass growing here that is just like those sitting around here. There is no difference. Even from the American land they are here, but we love them all the same, and when the white skin comes here from far away I love him all the same. I am telling you what our love and kindness is. This is what I did when the white man came, but when he came back he paid no regard to me how he carried on."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I did not know till I came here that any survey had been made because I had nothing to do with it; but my friend, one of the Queen's Councillors, tells me it was done by the authority of the Queen."

THE GAMBLER--"I want to tell you the right story. I waited very much for the Queen's messenger when I saw what the Company did. Perhaps he may know why he did so. Perhaps if I were to ask him now he would say. That is what I would think. This is the reason. I am so pleased at what I see here I cannot manage to speak because of the Company."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"We cannot see why you cannot speak to the Queen's messengers because of the Company. The Company is no greater in her sight than one of those little children is in yours, and whatever she promises, either to the Company or the little child, she will do. The Company ought not to be a wall between you and us; you will make a mistake if you send us away with a wall between us, when there should be none."

THE GAMBLER--"I do not send you away; for all this I am glad. I know this is not the Queen's work. He (H. B. Co.) is the head; he does whatever he thinks all around here, that is the reason I cannot say anything."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I am very sorry that you cannot answer."

THE GAMBLER--"The Company have stolen our land. I heard that at first. I hear it is true. The Queen's messengers never came here, and now I see the soldiers and the settlers and the policemen. I know it is not the Queen's work, only the Company has come and they are the head, they are foremost; I do not hold it back. Let this be put to rights; when this is righted I will answer the other."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"The Company have not brought their soldiers here. This man is not an officer of the Company. I am not an officer of the Company. We did not come at the request of the Company, but at that of the Queen. I told you that the Queen had sent her policemen here. You see the flag there, then know that we are the Queen's servants, and not the Company's, and it is for you to decide on the message I have delivered to you."

THE GAMBLER--"When one Indian takes anything from another we call it stealing, and when we see the present we say pay us. It is the Company I mean."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"What did the Company steal from you?"

THE GAMBLER--"The earth, trees, grass, stones, all that which I see with my eyes."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Who made the earth, the grass, the stone, and the wood? The Great Spirit. He made them for all his children to use, and it is not stealing to use the gift of the Great Spirit. The lands are the Queen's under the Great Spirit. The Chippewas were not always here. They come from the East. There were other Indians here and the Chippewas came here, and they used the wood and the land, the gifts of the Great Spirit to all, and we want to try and induce you to believe that we are asking for the good of all. We do not know how the division between us is to be taken away. We do not know of any lands that were stolen from you, and if you do not open your mouths we cannot get the wall taken away. You can open your mouths if you will; we are patient but we cannot remain here always."

THE GAMBLER--"I cannot manage to speak of anything else. It is this I am speaking. All the Indians know how the Company set their land in order long ago. The Company is making it more and that is the reason I am speaking."

LIEUT.-GOVERNOR MORRIS--"Many, many years ago, before we were born, one of the Kings gave the Company certain rights to trade in this country. The Queen thought that this was not just neither to the white nor the red man. She considered that all should be equal; but when the Queen's father's father's hand had been given she could not take it back without the Company's consent; therefore she told the Company that the time had come when they should no longer be the great power in this country, that she would plant her own flag, that she would send her own Governor and soldiers, and that they must cease to have the only right to trade here (and I am glad to know that some of you are good traders), the Queen then told the Company that she would govern the country herself, and she told them she would give them some land. They had their forts, their places of trade where they raised cattle and grain, and she told them they could keep them, and she will no more break with them than she will with you. There is no reason why you should not talk to us. The Company have no more power, no more authority to govern this country than you have, it rests with the Queen."

THE GAMBLER--"This is the reason I waited for the Queen's messengers to come here because I knew the Company was strong and powerful, and I knew they would set every thing in order. Truly since the Company came here they have brought me many things which are good, but the Company's work is in my way and I cannot utter my words."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"What do you complain of? I can not tell."

THE GAMBLER--"The survey. This one (pointing to an Indian) did not say so, and this Saulteaux and he was never told about it. He should have been told beforehand that this was to have been done and it would not have been so, and I want to know why the Company have done so. This is the reason I am talking so much about it."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I have told you before that the Queen had promised to give the Company certain lands around the forts and she gave them land around this fort. I have told you that what she promised she will do. She has taken all the lands in this country to manage; they were hers; they were her fathers; if she gives you reserves they will be yours and she will let no one take them from you unless you want to sell them yourselves. It will be a sorry thing if this nation and that nation scattered all over the country are to suffer because of this little piece of land I see around me. What good is it going to do to raise up a question of this kind and block the way to our understanding each other when the Queen's hand, full of love and generosity is held out to you? The blame rests with you; it is time for you to talk, to open your mouth, because I cannot take away what shuts it, you must do it yourselves."

THE GAMBLER--"This is my chief, the Queen never told this man. If this had been told him, I would not have said what I said just now. The Company's store was only there at first. I do not push back the Queen's hand. Let this be cleared up."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Once for all we tell you, whatever number of acres the Queen has promised to the Company at this post, they will receive no more and no less. We will ascertain what was promised, and will take care to see that what was promised and that only will be performed with regard to the land around this Fort. We can give you no other answer."

THE GAMBLER--"I am telling you and reporting what I had to tell. The Company have no right to this earth, but when they are spoken to they do not desist, but do it in spite of you. He is the head and foremost. These Indians you see sitting around report that they only allowed the store to be put up. That is the reason I was very glad when I heard you were coming. The Indians were not told of the reserves at all. I hear now, it was the Queen gave the land. The Indians thought it was they who gave it to the Company, who are now all over the country. The Indians did not know when the land was given."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I am weary hearing about the country. You might understand me now. You are stronger than that little boy over there, and the Company is stronger than a single trader, but the Company has its master, the Queen, and will have to obey the laws as well as all others. We have nothing to do with the Company. We are here to talk with you about the land, I tell you what we wish to do for your good, but if you will talk about the Company I cannot hinder you, I think it is time now you should talk about what concerns you all."

THE GAMBLER--"That is the reason I waited so long. I cannot speak of anything else, my mind is resting on nothing else I know that you will have power and good rules and this is why I am glad to tell you what is troubling me."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I have told you before and tell you again that the Queen cannot and will not undo what she has done. I have told you that we will see that the Company shall obey what she has ordered, and get no more and no less than she has promised. We might talk here all the year and I could not give you any other answer, and I put it to you now face to face--speak to me about your message, don't put it aside, if you do the responsibility will rest upon your nation, and during the winter that is coming, many a poor woman and child will be saying, how was it that our councillors and our braves shut their ears to the mouth of the Queen's messengers and refused to tell them their words. This Company, I have told you is nothing to us, it is nothing to the Queen, but their rights have to be respected just as much as those of the meanest child in the country. The Queen will do right between you and them I can say no more than what I have said and if the Indians will not speak to us we cannot help it, and if the Indians won't answer our message, we must go back and tell the Queen that we came here and did everything we could to show the Indians we were in earnest in proving her love for them and that when there was a little difficulty, I came at once to meet them half way. What prevents you from coming out and speaking openly. I cannot take away the difficulty you speak of, and if you will not answer us, there is no use in talking."

THE GAMBLER--"I told the chief of the soldiers what was in our way, what was troubling us and now we are telling you. It is that I am working at."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"What is troubling you?"

PIS-QUA (the plain) pointing to Mr. McDonald, of the Hudson's Bay Company--"You told me you had sold your land for so much money, L300,000. We want that money."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I wish our Indian brother had spoken before what was in his mind. He has been going here and there, and we never knew what he meant. I told you that many years ago the Queen's father's father gave the Company the right to trade in the country from the frozen ocean to the United States boundary line, and from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific. The Company grew strong and wanted no one to trade in the country but themselves. The Queen's people said, "no, the land is not yours, the Queen's father's father gave you rights to trade, it is time those rights should stop." You may go on and trade like any other merchant, but as it was worth money to you to say to this trader you shall not buy furs at any post, the Queen would not act unjustly to the Company. She would not take rights away from them any more than from you; and to settle the question, she took all the lands into her own hands and gave the Company a sum of money in place of the rights which she had taken from them. She is ready to deal with you justly. We are here to-day to make to you her good offers. We have nothing to hide, nothing to conceal. The Queen acts in daylight. I think it is time you are going to talk with us about the offers we have made."

THE GAMBLER--"I have made up about no other article. I suppose, indeed, I would make the thing very little and very small. When I get back I will think over it."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I have a word to say to you. In our land we worship the Great Spirit, and do not work on Sunday. I am glad to see that you are going back into council, and I will only ask you to think of these things with single hearts desiring only to do what is right and trusting my words. On Monday morning we will be glad to meet you here and hope we will find then that your heart has come to ours, that you will see that it is for your children's good, to take our hands and the promises we have given. As I told you before we would be glad to stay longer with you, but we are obliged to go away. We ask you then to meet us on Monday morning and Mr. Pratt will tell you so that there may be no mistake as to what we have promised. He has it written down so that it may not be rubbed out."

The conference then ended.

FIFTH DAY'S CONFERENCE

September 14.

Both nations, Crees and Saulteaux, having assembled, His Honor Lieut.-Governor Morris again addressed them:--

"Children of our Great Mother, I am glad to see you again after another day. How have you come to meet us? I hope you have come to us with good thoughts, and hearts ready to meet ours. I have one or two words to say to you. It is twenty days to-day since we left the Red River. We want to turn our faces homewards. You told me on Saturday that some of you could eat a great deal. I have something to say to you about that. There are Indians who live here, they have their wives and children around them. It is good for them to be here, and have plenty to eat, but they ought to think of their brothers; they ought to think that there are men here who have come from a distance, from Fort Pelly and beyond, whose wives and children are not here to eat, and they want to be at home with them. It is time now that we began to understand each other, and when there is something troubles us, I believe in telling it. When you told us you were troubled about the situation of this tent, we had it moved. Now we want you to take away our trouble, or tell us what you mean. We are troubled about this. We are servants of the Queen; we have been here many days giving you our message, and we have not yet heard the voice of the nations. We have two nations here. We have the Crees, who were here first, and we have the Ojibbeways, who came from our country not many suns ago. We find them here; we won't say they stole the land and the stones and the trees; no, but we will say this, that we believe their brothers, the Crees, said to them when they came in here: "The land is wide, it is wide, it is big enough for us both; let us live here like brothers;" and that is what you say, as you told us on Saturday, as to the Half-breeds that I see around. You say that you are one with them; now we want all to be one. We know no difference between Crees and Ojibbeways. Now we want to ask you are you wiser, do you know more, than the Ojibbeway people that I met last year? You are a handful compared with them; they came to me from the Lake of the Woods, from Rainy Lake, from the Kaministiquia, and from the Great Lake. I told them my message, as I have told you; they heard my words and they said they were good, and they took my hand and I gave them mine and the presents; but that is not all. There was a band of Ojibbeways who lived at Lake Seul, to the north of the Lake of the Woods, 400 in number, and just before we came away we sent our messenger to them. He told them I had shaken hands for the Queen with all the Ojibbeways down to the Great Lake. He told them what we had done for these, and asked them if they found it good to take the Queen's hand through our messenger; they were pleased; they signed the treaty; they put their names to it, saying, We take what you promised to the other Saulteaux; and our messenger gave them the money, just as our messengers will give your brothers who are not here the money if we understand each other. Now, we ask you again, are you wiser than your brothers that I have seen before? I do not think that you will say you are, but we want you to take away our last trouble. What I find strange is this: we are Chiefs; we have delivered the message of our great Queen, whose words never change, whose tongue and the tongues of whose messengers are never forked; and how is it that we have not heard any voice back from the Crees or Saulteaux, or from their Chiefs? I see before me two Chiefs; we know them to be Chiefs, because we see you put them before you to shake hands with us. They must have been made Chiefs, not for anything we are talking about to-day, not for any presents we are offering to you, not because of the land; then why are they chiefs? Because I see they are old men; the winds of many winters have whistled through their branches. I think they must have learned wisdom; the words of the old are wise; why then, we ask ourselves--and this is our trouble--Why are your Chiefs dumb? They can speak. One of them is called "Loud Voice." He must have been heard in the councils of the nation. Then I ask myself, why do they not answer? It cannot be that you are afraid; you are not women. In this country, now, no man need be afraid. If a white man does wrong to an Indian, the Queen will punish them. The other day at Fort Ellice, a white man, it is said, stole some furs from an Indian. The Queen's policemen took him at once; sent him down to Red River, and he is lying in jail now; and if the Indians prove that he did wrong, he will be punished. You see then that if the white man does wrong to the Indian he will punished; and it will be the same if the Indian does wrong to the white man. The red and white man must live together, and be good friends, and the Indians must live together like brothers with each other and the white man. I am afraid you are weary of my talking. Why do I talk so much? Because I have only your good at heart. I do not want to go away with my head down, to send word to the Queen, "Your red children could not see that your heart was good towards them; could not see as you see that it was for the good of themselves and their children's children to accept the good things you mean for them." I have done. Let us hear the voice of the people. Let us hear the voice of your old wise men."

COTE--"The same man that has spoken will speak yet."

KA-KIE-SHE-WAY (Loud Voice)--"This is the one who will speak; after he speaks I will show what I have to say."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Understand me, what I want to know is, does he speak for the nations. If you prefer to speak by the voice of an orator I am glad. All we want is to hear the voice of the people, and I asked you at first to choose among yourselves those who would speak for you; therefore I am glad to hear the man you have chosen, and I am glad to hear that after he has done the Chief will speak to us."

THE GAMBLER--"Saturday we met, we spoke to each other, we met at such a time as this time, and again we said we would tell each other something; now, then, we will report to each other a little again. This Company man that we were speaking about, I do not hate him; as I loved him before I love him still, and I also want that the way he loved me at first he should love me the same; still, I wish that the Company would keep at his work the same as he did; that I want to be signed on the paper. I want you to put it with your own hands. After he puts that there it is given to the Indians, then there will be another article to speak about. The Indians want the Company to keep at their post and nothing beyond. After that is signed they will talk about something else."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I told you on Saturday that I had nothing to do with the Company. The Company have a right to trade. I cannot make them buy goods and bring them here, or stop them from bringing them. I dare say some of you are traders; you do not ask me whether you shall buy goods and sell them again, and I do not stop you. It is the same way with the Company. If they make money in bringing goods here they will bring them just as they used to do; and I want you to understand it fully, the Company may have a little more money than the white traders, or the Half-breeds, or the Indians, but they have no more right, they have no more privileges, to trade than the Indians, or the Half-breeds, or the whites; and that is written with a higher hand than ours, and we have no power to write anything, or to add anything, to what is written and remains in the Queen's house beyond the sea."

THE GAMBLER--"I do not want to drive the Company anywhere. What I said is, that they are to remain here at their house. Supposing you wanted to take them away, I would not let them go. I want them to remain here to have nothing but the trade. I do not hate them; we always exchange with them, and would die if they went away."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I do not know whether we rightly understand or not. I think you have spoken wise words; the Company helps you to live, and they have a right to sell goods as other traders. I do not know that I understand you rightly, that you do not want them to sell goods anywhere except at the posts; to keep at their posts there. If that is what you mean, I cannot say yes to that; they have the same right to sell goods anywhere that you have. They are no longer as they were once. The Government of the country, I think I told you that before--understand me distinctly--the Government have nothing to do with the Company, but the Company and all their servants are subjects of the Queen and love and obey her laws. The day has gone past when they made the laws. They have to hear the laws the Queen makes, and like good subjects submit to them."

THE GAMBLER--"The Company is not to carry anything out into the country, but are to trade in the Fort. That is what we want signed on the paper; then we will talk on other subjects." LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I have told you before, and I tell you again, that the Company as traders have the right to sell goods anywhere they please, just as you have, just as the whites have, just as the Half-breeds have, and we have no power to take it away from them. If the Company were to ask me to say to you that you were not to trade anywhere except in their Fort by the lake, you would think it very hard, and I would say to the Company, No, you shall not interfere with the Indians throughout our land. I would like to give you pleasure but I cannot do wrong; we won't deceive you with smooth words. We will tell you the simple truth what we can do and what we cannot do, but we cannot interfere as you ask us."

THE GAMBLER--"Cannot you sign such a paper?"

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"No; the Queen has signed the great paper, and the Company have no more rights than any one else, but they have the same."

KA-KIE-SHE-WAY (Loud Voice)--"I would not be at a loss, but I am, because we are not united--the Crees and the Saulteaux--this is troubling me. I am trying to bring all together in one mind, and this is delaying us. If we could put that in order, if we were all joined together and everything was right I would like it, I would like to part well satisfied and pleased. I hear that His Excellency is unwell, and I wish that everything would be easy in his mind. It is this that annoys me, that things do not come together. I wish for one day more, and after that there would not be much in my way."

COTE--"You wanted me to come here and I came here. I find nothing, and I do not think anything will go right. I know what you want; I cannot speak of anything here concerning my own land until I go to my own land. Whenever you desire to see me I will tell you what you are asking me here. Now I want to return."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"We asked the Chief to come here. He has as much right to be here as another Indian. We cannot go there and ask the people of the two great tribes to meet in one place as they have done when they were asked to meet us. You have had many days to talk together. If the Saulteaux are determined that they want an agreement to prevent the Company from trading, it cannot be given. I think the Chief here spoke wisely. He says he is in trouble because you do not understand each other. Why are you not of one mind? Have you tried to be of one mind? Must we go back and say we have had you here so many days, and that you had not the minds of men--that you were not able to understand each other? Must we go back and tell the Queen that we held out our hands for her, and her red children put them back again? If that be the message that your conduct to-day is going to make us carry back, I am sorry for you, and fear it will be a long day before you again see the Queen's Councillors here to try to do you good. The Queen and her Councillors may think that you do not want to be friends, that you do not want your little ones to be taught, that you do not want when the food is getting scarce to have a hand in yours stronger than yours to help you. Surely you will think again before you turn your backs on the offers; you will not let so little a question as this about the Company, without whom you tell me you could not live, stop the good we mean to do. I hope that I am perfectly understood; when we asked the chief here we wanted to speak with him about his lands at his place; when we asked "Loud Voice" here we wanted to speak with him about the land at his place; so when we asked the other chiefs here we wanted to speak with them about the lands at their places. Why? because we did not want to do anything that you would not all know about, that there might be no bad feelings amongst you. We wanted you to be of one mind and heart in this matter, and that is the reason you are here to-day. Now it rests with you; we have done all we could. Have you anything more to say to us, or are we to turn our backs upon you, and go away with sorry hearts for you and your children? It remains for you to say."

THE GAMBLER--"We do not understand you and what you are talking about. I do not keep it from you; we have not chosen our Chiefs; we have not appointed our soldiers and councillors; we have not looked around us yet, and chosen our land, which I understand you to tell us to choose. We do not want to play with you, but we cannot appoint our Chiefs and head men quickly; that is in the way. Now it is near mid-day, and we cannot appoint our Chiefs. This Chief who got up last--the Queen's name was used when he was appointed to be Chief--he wants to know where his land is to be and see it, what like it is to be, and to find the number of his children; that is what is in his mind. He says he came from afar, he had a good mind for coming, and he takes the same good mind away with him. I have not heard him say to the Saulteaux to keep back their land."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I think I understand you. We do not want to separate in bad feeling, or to avoid any trouble in coming to an understanding with you; because I do not believe that if we do not agree it will ever be my good fortune to endeavor to do so again. "Loud Voice," the Chief, has told us he wants a day to think it over. The Chief "Cote," from the north, would like to go home, but I am sure he will stop a day and try to understand his brothers, and agree as the others did at the Lake of the Woods. I put my name, and the Chiefs and the head men put theirs, and I gave the Chief a copy, and I told him when I went home to Red River I would have it all written out, a true copy made on skin, that could not be rubbed out, that I would send a copy to his people so that when we were dead and gone the letter would be there to speak for itself, to show everything that was promised; and that was the right way to do. I did so, and sent a copy of the treaty written in letters of blue, gold, and black to the Chief "Maw-do-pe-nais," whom the people had told to keep it for them. He who speaks for the Saulteaux tells us they have not made up their minds yet about the land--he tells us they have not decided to refuse our hands. I am glad to hear him say that, and if it will please my Indian brethren here we will be glad to wait another day and meet them here to-morrow morning, if they will promise me with the words of men that they will look this matter straight in the face; that they will lay aside every feeling except the good of their people, and try to see what is right, and that they will come back and say, 'We have done our best, we have tried to be of one mind, and considered what was best for now, and to-morrow, and the years that are to come when we have all passed away. This is our answer. We are very much in earnest about this matter.' The Chief said I was not very well, yet I am here. Why? Because the duty was laid upon me I was afraid of the journey, but when a Chief has a duty to do he tries to do it, and I felt that if I could do you any good, as I believed I could, I ought to be here. I tell you this, trust my words, they come from the heart of one who loves the Indian people, and who is charged by his Queen to tell them the words of truth."

SIXTH DAY'S CONFERENCE

The Crees having come and shaken hands, His Honor Lieut.-Gov. Morris rose and said:

"My friends, I have talked much; I would like to hear your voices, I would like to hear what you say."

KA-KU-ISH-MAY, (Loud Voice--a principal chief of the Crees)--"I am very much pleased with that, to listen to my friends, for certainly it is good to report to each other what is for the benefit of each other. We see the good you wish to show us. If you like what we lay before you we will like it too. Let us join together and make the Treaty; when both join together it is very good."

The Saulteaux arrived at this juncture, when the Lieut.-Governor said:

"I will say to the two tribes what I said to the Crees before the Saulteaux came. You have heard my voice for many days, you know its sound. You have looked in my face, you have seen my mind through my face, and you know my words are true and that they do not change. But I am not here to talk to-day, I am here to listen. You have had our message, you have had the Queen's words. It is time now that you spoke. I am here to listen, my ears are open. It is for you to speak."

KAMOOSES--"Brothers, I have one word and a small one, that is the reason I cannot finish anything that is large. You do not see the whole number of my tribe which is away at my back, that is the reason I am so slow in making ready."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I want to hear the voice of those who are here, they can speak for themselves and for those who are away."

CHE-E-KUK (the Worthy One)--"My ears are open to what you say. Just now the Great Spirit is watching over us; it is good. He who has strength and power is overlooking our doings. I want very much to be good in what we are going to talk about, and our Chiefs will take you by the hand just now."

The Chiefs now rose and shook hands with the Commissioners.

KA-HA-OO-KUS-KA-TOO (he who walks on four claws)--"It is very good to meet together on a fine day, father. When my father used to bring me anything I used to go and meet him, and when my father had given it to me I gave it to my mother to cook it. When we come to join together one half at least will come."

CHE-E-KUK (the Worthy)--"Now I am going to tell you, and you say your ears are open. You see the Qu'Appelle Lake Indians that you wished to see, you hear me speak but there are many far away, and that is the reason I cannot speak for these my children who are away trying to get something to eat; the Crees my child is not here, the Saulteaux my child is not here, the Young Dogs are not here, the Stonies my children are not here, this is not the number that you see; I am only telling you this, I think I have opened my mind."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I know you are not all here. We never could get you all together, but you know what is good for you and for your children. When I met the Saulteaux last year we had not 4,000 there, but there were men like you who knew what was good for themselves, for their wives, for their children, and those not born. I give to those who were there, and they took my hand and took what was in it, and I sent to those who were away, and I did for them just as I did for those who were present. It is the same to-day. What we are ready to give you will be given to those who are not here. What is good for you, what you think will be good for you will be good for them. It is for you to say, not for us; we have done all that men who love their red brothers can do, it is for you now to act, on you rests the duty of saying whether you believe our message or not, whether you want the Queen to help you or not, whether or not you will go away and let the days and the years go on, and let the food grow scarcer, and let your children grow up and do nothing to keep off the hunger and the cold that is before them. It is for you to say that, not for us; if we had not your good at heart we would not have been here, and we would not have labored these many days, if our hearts were not warm towards you, and if we did not believe what we are doing, would be for your good as children of our Queen. I have said all."

KAN-OO-SES--"Is it true you are bringing the Queen's kindness? Is it true you are bringing the Queen's messenger's kindness? Is it true you are going to give my child what he may use? Is it true you are going to give the different bands the Queen's kindness? Is it true that you bring the Queen's hand? Is it true you are bringing the Queen's power?"

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Yes, to those who are here and those who are absent, such as she has given us."

KAMOOSES--"Is it true that my child will not be troubled for what you are bringing him?"

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"The Queen's power will be around him."

KAMOOSES--"Now, I am going to ask you that the debt that has been lying in the Company's store, I want that to be wiped out. I ask it from the great men of the Queen."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I told you before we have nothing to do with the Company, we have nothing to do with its debts. I have told you what we will do for you, what the Queen will do for you forever. But the money that the Indian owes the Company is just like the money that the Indians owe to each other or to any trader and is not due to the Queen. We have no power to put money in your hands and your children's to pay your debts, and it would not be right for the Queen to come in and take away either what is between you and the Company, or what is between you and the traders, or what is between you and each other. If one of you owes the Chief is it right that the Queen should wipe it out? I would be very glad if we had it in our power to wipe out your debts, but it is not in our power. All we can do is to put money in your hands and promise to put money in the hands of those who are away, and give you money every year afterwards, and help you to make a living when the food is scarce. I have told you from the first that whether my words please you or not I will tell you only the truth, and I will only speak as far as the Queen has given us power."

(He who walks on four claws)--"Whenever you give to these my children what they desire, then you will get what you want."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"We will give them what we have power to give. We are ready to hear."

KAMOOSES--"Yes, I understand and my heart also, but it is not large, it is small, and my understanding is small; that is the word I tell you."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I have told you what we are ready to do for you. Your understanding is large enough to know what is good for you. We have talked these many days, and I ask you now to talk straight, to tell me your mind, to tell me whether you wish to take our offers or not, it is for you to say."

KEE-E-KUK--"Twenty dollars we want to be put in our hand every year, this we have heard from the others. Twenty-five dollars to each chief."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"If I understand you aright you are mistaken. The Saulteaux did not get twenty-five dollars per head. They get five dollars every year. We promised them five dollars every year, and a messenger was sent this year to pay them that sum. I may tell you that my children at the Lake of the Woods had big hearts to ask. You say you have small. I told them that if the Queen gave them all they asked I would have to ask her to allow me to become an Indian, but I told them I could not give them what they asked, and when they understood that, and understood the full breadth and width of the Queen's goodness, they took what I offered, and I think if you are wise you will do the same."

(A proposition was made here by an Indian that they should receive five dollars per head every second year for fifty years, but he must have done so without authority as it was not acceded to by the other Indians who expressed their dissent strongly as soon as the offer was made.)

KAMOOSES--"I am going to speak for Loud Voice and for the other chiefs. Some chiefs are not here, they are absent, hereafter you will see them. I myself will tell them, and my child that is at my back will tell them also. Will you receive that which I am asking? I want to clear up what the Indians and I want to try and put it right, what my child will say. Well, can you give me that. We want the same Treaty you have given to the North-West Angle. This I am asking for."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Who are you speaking for? Is it for the whole of the Indians? (They expressed their assent.) Are you ready to carry it out? (They again assented.) Are your chiefs ready to sign this afternoon if we grant you these terms? (The Indians assented unanimously.) It is now after twelve, we will speak to you this afternoon."

The Conference here ended to allow the Commissioners time to consult.

AFTERNOON CONFERENCE

The Indians having assembled, presented the Chiefs, whose names appear on the Treaty to the Commissioners as their Chiefs.

KAMOOSES--"To-day we are met together here and our minds are open. We want to know the terms of the North-West Angle Treaty."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"Do we understand that you want the same terms which were given at the Lake of the Woods (The Indians assented.) I have the Treaty here in a book. You must know that the steamboats had been running through their waters, and our soldiers had been marching through their country, and for that reason we offered the Ojibbeways a larger sum than we offered you. Last year it was a present, covering five years; with you it was a present for this year only. I paid the Indians there a present in money down of twelve dollars per head. I have told you why we offered you less, and you will see there were reasons for it. That is the greatest difference between what we offered you and what was paid them, but on the other hand there were some things promised you that were not given at the Lake of the Woods. (His Honor then explained the terms granted in that Treaty.) We promised there that the Queen would spend $1,500 per year to buy shot and powder, ball and twine. There were 4,000 of them. I offered you $1,000 although you are only one-half the number, as I do not think you number more than 2,000. Your proportionate share would be $750 which you shall receive. Then at the Lake of the Woods each Chief had their head men; we have said you would have four who shall have fifteen dollars each per year, and as at the Lake of the Woods each Chief and head man will receive a suit of clothing once in three years, and each Chief on signing the treaty will receive a medal and the promise of a flag. We cannot give you the flag now, as there were none to be bought at Red River, but we have the medals here. Now I have told you the terms we gave at the North-West Angle of the Lake of the Woods, and you will see that the only difference of any consequence between there and what we offered you is in the money payment that we give as a present, and I have told you why we made the difference, and you will see that it was just. We had to speak with them for four years that had gone away. We speak to you only for four days. It was not that we came in the spirit of traders, but because we were trying to do what was just between you and the Queen, and the other Indians who would say that we had treated you better than we had treated them because we put the children of this year on the same footing as these children through whose land we had been passing and running our steamboats for four years. You see when you ask us to tell you everything, we show you all that has been done, and I have to tell you again that the Ojibbeways at Lake Seul who number 400, when I sent a messenger this spring with a copy of those terms made at the North-West Angle with their nation, took the Queen's hand by my messenger and made the same treaty. I think I have told you all you want to know, and our ears are open again."

KAMOOSES--"I want to put it a little light for all my children around me, something more on the top. For my chief thirty dollars, for my four chief head men twenty dollars, and each of my young children fifteen dollars a year."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"I am afraid you are not talking to us straight; when we went away you asked us to give you the terms given at the Lake of the Woods; you asked to know what they were, and the moment I told you, you ask three times as much for your children as I gave them. That would not be right; and it is well that you should know that we have not power to do so; we can give you no more than we gave them. We hope you are satisfied. I have one word more to say, we are in the last hours of the day you asked us for and we must leave you. The utmost we can do, the furthest we can go or that we ought to go is, to do what you asked, to give you the terms granted last year at the Lake of the Woods. We can do no more, and you have our last words. It is for you to say whether you are satisfied or not."

KAMOOSES--"We ask that we may have cattle."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"We offered you cattle on the first day, we offered your Chief cattle for the use of his band--not for himself, but for the use of his band; we gave the same at the Lake of the Woods. We can give no more here."

KAMOOSES--"We want some food to take us home."

LIEUT.-GOV. MORRIS--"When you sign the treaty, provisions will be given to take you home. Now I ask you, are you ready to accept the offer, the last offer we can make, you will see we have put you on the same footing as the Indians at the Lake of the Woods, and we think it is more than we ought to give, but rather than not close the matter we have given it, we have talked long enough about this. It is time we did something. Now I would ask, are the Crees and the Saulteaux and the other Indians ready to make the treaty with us. Since we went away we have had the treaty written out, and we are ready to have it signed, and we will leave a copy with any Chief you may select and after we leave we will have a copy written out on skin that cannot be rubbed out and put up in a tin box, so that it cannot be wet, so that you can keep it among yourselves so that when we are dead our children will know what was written."