Chapter VI: Part 6

_A._ He asked us what house we stopped at, I told him the Bull at Kent Street end, and he came to us there, and gave my fellow-servant a one pound note, and the remainder in silver for him and me together.

_Q._ Did he pay for the chaise?

_A._ He did not pay for the chaise.

_Q._ Did either of the other two return with him?

_A._ They did not.

_Mr. Francis Baily called again._

_Examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ In consequence of enquiries that had been made, did Mr. Holloway attend the Committee of the Stock Exchange?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Did Mr. Lyte attend also?

_A._ Afterwards he did with Mr. Holloway; first Mr. Holloway came, and denied having any knowledge of the transaction.

_Q._ Did you see him again at any other time?

_A._ Yes, very near the time of the bill being found; I cannot tell whether before or after that, he came with Mr. Lyte and confessed that he was the person who had planned that plot, or participated in it.

_Q._ State what he said as nearly as you can recollect?

_A._ He said that he had done it with a view to obtain money by a rise in the public funds; and Mr. Lyte stated, that he was one of the parties who had been employed by Mr. M'Rae, at Mr. Holloway's suggestion; at Holloway's or M'Rae's.

_Q._ Did either of them say who were the actors in the plot?

_A._ Mr. Lyte said that he and Sandom and M'Rae rode in the post chaise from Northfleet to Dartford, and afterwards from Dartford to London.

_Lord Ellenborough._ In whose presence did Lyte state this?

_A._ Mr. Wakefield was present, Mr. Lavie was present, and a Mr. Chaumette.

_Q._ Was Holloway present then?

_A._ Yes he was; they both came together.

_Q._ What Lyte stated was in the presence of Holloway?

_A._ Exactly so. Holloway stated that he did it with a view of obtaining money, by the rise in the funds.

_Q._ Did he state any thing more?

_A._ He stated that he was not aware of the serious turn it would take; that he did not contemplate it in that point of view at first; but finding that it had taken so serious a turn, he had come forward and confessed it, in the hope that the Stock Exchange would not pursue it to extremities, and carry on the action against him, or the prosecution: He was asked whether he had any connection with Lord Cochrane, Cochrane Johnstone, or Mr. Butt, which he denied.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._

_Q._ Do you know what it was that immediately led to Mr. Holloway's making this communication to the Stock Exchange?

_A._ No I do not; nothing more than the publicity of the measures which they were taking to follow up the parties, I believe.

_Q._ Did you not learn at the time from Mr. Holloway during this conversation, and from Mr. Lyte, that M'Rae had offered to come forward for a very considerable sum of money and state his knowledge of the transaction?

_A._ That had been stated before publicly I believe in Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's letter.

_Q._ I ask as to the conversation at the time, do you recollect whether or not at the time of this interview between Holloway, Lyte, and the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, any thing was said about M'Rae's having offered to be a witness for a large sum of money?

_A._ There was certainly something said, but whether it was mentioned first by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, or by Mr. Holloway, I cannot recollect.

_Q._ Did not Mr. Holloway state, that in order to prevent the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange paying a large sum of money for the communication that would be paid in fact for nothing, he would come forward and state the part of the transaction in which he was concerned?

_A._ I believe he did.

_Q._ It was understood by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, was it not, that that communication of M'Rae's was supposed to extend to my Lord Cochrane's part in the transaction?

_Mr. Gurney._ What was understood cannot be asked.

_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ I ask as to what was said at the time, was it not said that M'Rae's communication was to affect Lord Cochrane's share in the transaction?

_A._ I do not recollect that that was stated.

_Q._ I think you stated that Mr. Holloway or Mr. Lyte distinctly asserted, that this business of theirs had nothing to do with that in which Lord Cochrane was concerned?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Do you know what was the sum that it was stated M'Rae was to be a witness for, was not it so large a sum as £10,000?

_A._ That sum had been stated in a letter which passed?

_Q._ Was it not stated in the conversation?

_A._ I believe it was; but the subject of the communication of M'Rae was so little attended to by the Committee, that it never entered their heads that any such sum should be paid.

_Q._ Was there any letter, or any writing of Mr. Holloway's produced at the time?

_A._ I really cannot fix my memory.

_Q._ Have you any recollection of any letter of his having been produced at the time?

_A._ Certainly none that I can recollect.

_Q._ Do you not know that Mr. Holloway had written a letter to the Committee of the Stock Exchange upon this business?

_A._ I really do not know it; it may possibly have been.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._

_Q._ This person Holloway was asked whether he had any connection with Lord Cochrane, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, and Mr. Butt, and he denied it?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Did he not, in the same conversation, deny that he had any connection, not only with those persons, but De Berenger also?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ That you dropped?

_A._ Yes, I did not mean to drop it.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Alley._

_Q._ At the time this conversation passed between you and Holloway, M'Rae was not there?

_A._ He was not.

_Q._ It was all in his absence?

_A._ It was in his absence, it was in Mr. Lavie's office.

_Lord Ellenborough._ The evidence of course can operate only against Holloway and Lyte, who were there.

_Mr. Joseph Fearn sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ You are a stock broker?

_A._ I am.

_Q._ How long have you known Mr. Butt?

_A._ Several years.

_Q._ Were you introduced by him to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and to Lord Cochrane.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ In the month of February last, were you employed either by Mr. Butt or Lord Cochrane, or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, to make any purchases for them in the funds?

_A._ Yes, I was.

_Q._ At that time where was your office of business?

_A._ No. 10, Cornhill.

_Q._ Was it No. 10 or No. 86, about the 12th of February?

_A._ I believe it was No. 86.

_Q._ Had Mr. Butt an office?

_A._ He had somewhere about that time an office in Sweetings Alley.

_Q._ From the 12th of February to the 19th of February, did you see Mr. Butt daily?

_A._ I think I did.

_Q._ At your office or at his?

_A._ Both.

_Q._ Did you generally see him alone, or in company with either of the other persons?

_A._ Frequently all three together.

_Q._ You mean Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ When you did business for Lord Cochrane, did you in all instances take orders from him or from any person for him?

_A._ Sometimes from him, and sometimes from Mr. Butt.

_Q._ After you had acted for him upon the orders of Mr. Butt, did he recognize those orders?

_A._ Always.

_Q._ From the 12th till the 19th, did you make various purchases and sales for them?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ On the evening of the 19th, what balance had he in his hand; Lord Cochrane's transactions I believe were only in omnium?

_A._ No.

_Q._ The amount was £139,000, was it not?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ That is to say, that he had that balance of omnium?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ What balance of omnium had Mr. Cochrane Johnstone on that day?

_A._ £120,000.

_Q._ One hundred and twenty, or one hundred and thirty thousand?

_A._ I have not drawn out the balance here.

_Q._ What was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's consol account on that day?

_A._ £100,000.

_Q._ How much had Mr. Butt of omnium at the same time?

_A._ I think about £160,000.

_Q._ Is not the omnium £130,000.

_A._ I should think more than that; I believe it was £154,000.

_Q._ How much his consols?

_A._ £168,000.

_Q._ On the morning of the 21st of February, did you sell them all?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Omnium and consols and all?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st, did you remove to any other office than that you had before occupied?

_A._ Yes, I did.

_Q._ Where was that office?

_A._ No. 5, in Shorter's Court.

_Q._ Is that close to the side door of the Stock Exchange?

_A._ Yes, it is.

_Q._ How many rooms were there?

_A._ Three.

_Q._ Had you one?

_A._ I had one and a small closet; Mr. Butt had another up stairs with Mr. Johnstone and my Lord Cochrane, and the ground floor was occupied by Mr. Lance.

_Q._ Was he a clerk of yours, or employed by them?

_A._ He was employed by them.

_Q._ Had you taken that office, or had it been taken for you?

_A._ Mr. Johnstone had taken his with one room or two rooms, I am not sure which.

_Q._ Had the office been taken for you, or had you yourself gone and taken it?

_A._ They had taken those two rooms, I believe, without intending to take any more; but as I was not pleasantly situated, and was rather too far from business, I wished to have an office there, if they could procure it; several of my friends went to look at it, and finding it convenient, I requested them to take the whole of it, if they could, in order that I might be accommodated.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Whom do you mean by friends, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

_A._ No, other persons for whom I did business.

_Mr. Gurney._ When was this done?

_A._ In the course of the week preceding.

_Lord Ellenborough._ When you say Mr. Cochrane Johnstone took a room for you, do you mean at this place?

_Q._ They had taken those two rooms, I believe, for themselves, without reference to my having any thing to do there.

_Mr. Gurney._ Did they afterwards take a third?

_A._ They afterwards took the whole that is in my possession.

_Q._ You have all of them in your possession now?

_A._ I have.

_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st of February, how soon did you see either of those gentlemen?

_A._ They were in the habit of being at the office as early as I myself attended.

_Q._ At your office in Cornhill?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ How early did you see them at your office that morning?

_A._ I believe at about ten, or a little past.

_Q._ Whom did you then see.

_A._ I think, Mr. Butt and Mr. Johnstone.

_Q._ Are you positive upon that subject?

_A._ I am sure they were both there in the course of the morning.

_Q._ Are you positive whether any body else was with them?

_A._ No, I think nobody else.

_Q._ Business begins in the Stock Exchange I believe at ten o'clock.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ At what price had consols for time left off on Saturday?

_A._ I can hardly say.

_Q._ Did they open on Monday morning pretty much as they had left off on Saturday evening?

_A._ I think they did.

_Q._ How soon after you had been in the Stock Exchange, did any good news come?

_A._ I think it was near eleven.

_Q._ What news had arrived?

_A._ I cannot take upon me to say; I only knew in general, with perhaps every body in the house in business, that there was some news, but we rarely enquire into particulars of news, it is enough that facts are produced.

_Q._ You were doing a good deal of business at that moment, and must have heard something of it; did you hear any thing about a messenger arriving at Dover?

_A._ I have heard so much since that, I cannot take upon myself to swear what I heard, whether that a messenger had arrived at Dover, or that Bonaparte was killed, but one of the two certainly.

_Q._ Did you hear that Bonaparte was killed?

_A._ Yes.

_A Juryman._ Were those gentlemen with you at the time the news arrived?

_A._ They were--not my Lord Cochrane.

_Mr. Gurney._ Had the good news an immediate effect upon the funds?

_A._ Yes, it had.

_Q._ After the funds had begun to rise, did you sell?

_A._ I began to sell before the rise took place.

_Q._ What was the first price you sold at?

_A._ Omnium at twenty-nine and a quarter.

_Q._ That was the first price you sold at?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Do you mean to say that omnium opened that morning at twenty-nine and a quarter?

_A._ I rather think it did.

_Q._ However, the first price you sold at was twenty-nine and a quarter?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ What was your next price?

_A._ £29-3/8, 29-1/2, and 30-1/2.

_Q._ At what did you sell the consols?

_A._ Beginning at 70-5/8ths, 71-1/4, 71-7/8ths, 72, and 72-1/4.

_Q._ In what manner did you receive instructions for these various sales; they were sold in different parcels?

_A._ Yes, I came frequently to my office from the Stock Exchange to Mr. Butt and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.

_Q._ And you reported to them and received orders?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you receive notes likewise?

_A._ I was in the constant habit of doing so.

_Q._ Did you do so that morning?

_A._ I am not quite certain; but I am in the constant habit of receiving notes from them.

_Q._ Do you remember hearing in the course of the morning, of a post chaise coming through the city?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Did that occasion a still further rise in the funds?

_A._ I do not know.

_Q._ Before business left off, the funds fell again?

_A._ They did.

_Lord Ellenborough._ About what o'clock did the funds fall?

_A._ I believe about two.

_Mr. Gurney._ It was discovered at that time that the good news was not true?

_A._ It certainly was not believed.

_Q._ Have you an account of the different purchases from the 12th to the 21st, taken from your books?

_A._ I have.

_The Witness delivered in the Accounts._

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ From what are those taken?

_A._ From my books.

_Mr. Gurney._ Have you carried those accounts down to the 5th of March?

_A._ I have.

_Q._ Has Mr. Baily, also had access to your books, to take the different balances?

_A._ He has.

_Mr. Gurney._ The reading of this would not be very intelligible, a sight of it perhaps would be the best thing.

_Lord Ellenborough._ We must have the sum total or the results.

_Mr. Gurney._ I will give your Lordship the result after the examination of several stock brokers; Mr. Baily has abstracted the whole.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I shall carry back the accounts considerably earlier; that should be understood. If I put in accounts of an earlier date, it must not be considered that I am giving evidence in so doing.

_Mr. Gurney._ I take it the same, as if my learned friend cross examined Mr. Fearn upon that subject.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best_.

_Q._ You have spoken of these gentlemen engaging in stock transactions, you have been carried back no further than February the 8th, they had all three of them bought to an enormous amount long before that time--had they not?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ And as to sales, had they not sold very large sums, long antecedent to the month of February?

_A._ Oh yes.

_Q._ Can you state as to my Lord Cochrane, for instance, had he not sold hundreds of thousands before that time?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ I would ask you, did he not from time to time, down to that time, continue to be selling large sums?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ With respect to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone--on the 10th or 11th of February, had he not a balance of £100,000.

_Mr. Gurney._ To save my learned friend time, my account shews every day's purchases, and every day's sales from that time.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Be so good as to look at that printed paper, and tell me whether that is not a correct statement of Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's account with you.

_A._ I cannot tell from this book.

_Mr. Gurney._ I believe the accounts will agree to a farthing, from the time they each begin.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Then the larger sales will appear upon this paper without troubling his Lordship to take them down upon his notes; there were very large sales for all of them several days precedent to the 21st.

_A._ Yes, there were.

_Q._ I believe they began these speculations as early as the month of November, did they not?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Mr. Butt managed principally--very much for these gentlemen--for Lord Cochrane particularly?

_A._ Yes, he did.

_Q._ Lord Cochrane, you have told us, was not there on the morning of the 21st?

_A._ No, he was not.

_Q._ For a great many days, I believe I may say months, had you not been directed to sell their stock whenever it should so rise, that you could get one per cent?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ You have told us that on the morning of the 21st, you began to sell before the news came?

_A._ Yes.

_A Juryman._ He said before the rise took place.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You found when you came there in the morning, that the stocks had got to such a pitch as that you could sell consistently with the orders they had given you?

_A._ It was so.

_Lord Ellenborough._ At what hour was that?

_A._ Ten o'clock.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Did you not sell out very large sums before either of them came near the place that morning?

_A._ I think I had began to sell before they came, but I cannot say positively.

_Q._ Had you not sold to a considerable amount, if you can tax your memory with it, or refresh your memory by looking at any book?

_A._ I think I had.

_Q._ Can you tell us to what amount you had sold before any of them came?--I do not ask to a few shillings, we deal in thousands here.

_A._ I cannot positively say--I had done much before I saw either of them, for I was in the habit of doing twenty or thirty and reporting to them.

_Q._ Do you mean thousands?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ You think you had sold considerably before you saw them?

_A._ I think I had.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Cannot you fix the time of your sale?

_Mr. Gurney._ I shall prove the prices every half hour.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I am not at all conversant in those things, never having speculated in stock at all, but I am told it is the practice sometimes to sell stock which the persons have not to transfer?

_A._ I have heard of such things.

_Q._ Consequently, if I had been at the Stock Exchange that morning, and had found the Omnium up at 34, which I believe it was that morning----

_Mr. Bolland._ No, thirty two.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ If I had been at the Stock Exchange that morning, and had found the Omnium up at 32, and had known that the good news must soon turn out to be all invention, I might have sold if I had liked, a million of stock, according to the practice of the Stock Exchange, though I did not happen to have a sixpence.

_A._ It certainly might have been done.

_Q._ Is it not the practice for a man who wishes to gamble in the funds, to sell stock which he has not, when he thinks they will fall?

_A._ I know it is done.

_Q._ A man who thinks the stocks may fall, may sell stock he has not, to any person who thinks they may rise?

_A._ It certainly is done.

_Q._ Did either my Lord Cochrane, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone or Mr. Butt, make any such sales on that day to your knowledge, you having stated you were their Broker--do you know of their having sold on that day any stock which they had not purchased before?

_Lord Ellenborough._ Are you not putting this gentleman in a situation of peril?

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ If he admits it.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Why should you place him in such a situation to deny or affirm? This does not affect the charge.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I ask whether it was done by those persons?

_Lord Ellenborough._ But that would be done through a broker.

_Mr. Taddy._ If your Lordship will allow me to suggest on behalf of the witness, that in an action for the penalties, the question would be whether he knew they were possessed of the stock, or not, and this would go to make out his knowledge.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Do you know whether either of those persons on that day sold any stock or omnium, which they had not purchased before?

_Lord Ellenborough._ That question must be limited to any thing in which you have not had participation in the way of sale, otherwise you may criminate yourself--having given you that caution, you may do as you please.

_A._ They did not.

_Lord Ellenborough._ That is not imputed to them.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ The use I mean to make of it I have no objection to state now.

_Lord Ellenborough._ No, you need not, I leave it entirely to your judgment.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I think you told us before, those gentlemen told you, whenever the stock rose to one per cent, above what they had bought at, to sell.

_A._ Yes, they did.

_Q._ With respect to the taking of this office, when did you first see it?

_A._ In the course of the week anterior to the 21st of February.

_Q._ Mr. Butt had before an office in Sweeting's Alley.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ He found that an inconvenient one and he took these rooms in Shorter's Court, he and Mr. Johnstone?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Those were taken for Mr. Butt, were they not?

_A._ I believe so.

_Q._ I believe you went to the rooms as to the rooms of Mr. Butt?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ I believe you thought upon seeing Mr. Butt's room, that the situation was a very convenient one for yourself?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ And therefore you suggested, did you not, that you should like a room in the same house?

_A._ I think I did.

_Q._ In consequence of this suggestion did not Mr. Butt give up to you the room he had taken for himself, and take another in the same house for himself?

_A._ Yes, he did.

_Q._ And the room being taken in this manner, you put up your name "Fearn, Stock Broker."

_A._ On the Monday.

_Q._ Did you do that at your own idea or was it suggested to you by any body?

_A._ It was the same transparent blind I had at my former office, which I removed and put in the window.

_Q._ Your name in gold letters?

_A._ In black letters.

_Q._ You took your furniture?

_A._ The rooms were furnished.

_Q._ I believe after thus finding your Customers liked the situation, you desired Mr. Johnstone to purchase the lease of the house for you.

_A._ Yes, I did.

_Q._ Was that before or after the 21st?

_A._ I think after.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Then that does not apply.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You had taken it before the 21st and got into possession on the 21st.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ One of your reasons for taking it was that some of your customers were particularly pleased with it.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ That was on the Thursday in the week before.

_A._ I believe it might be.

_Q._ You have told us you did not see Lord Cochrane on that morning, how many days previously to that had you seen him?

_A._ I think I saw him on the Saturday.

_Q._ You are not quite certain of that?

_A._ No, I am not.

_Q._ Does it appear whether he bought any thing on that day.

_Mr. Gurney._ It appears from the account that he bought 20,000 and sold 17,000.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You have told us that all those three persons, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt, were very large speculators; did they always speculate the same way, or on the contrary, when one bought did not the other very often sell?

_A._ It has been the case.

_Q._ Has not that happened often, several times?

_A._ Yes it has, several times.

_Re-examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ On that day they all sold?

_A._ Yes they did.

_Q._ They all acted together on that day.

_A._ Yes they did.

_Q._ Where did Lord Cochrane reside on the 21st of February?

_A._ I do not know.

_Q._ How soon after did you know his residence in Green-Street?

_A._ Not at all until the printed paper of the Stock Exchange came out.

_Q._ Did you know that Lord Cochrane resided at the time in Green-Street?

_A._ Only by report.

_Q._ Not from Lord Cochrane?

_A._ No.

_A Juryman._ You say they did not sell any stock but what they had before purchased, do you mean such as they had bought and paid for, or only such as they had contracted for the purchase of, was it actually bought and transferred to them?

_Mr. Taddy._ That is the very thing I have taken the liberty of suggesting to your Lordship.

_Lord Ellenborough._ He has before said they had not sold any of which they had not become the proprietors before, so that he is predicating of them that they had purchased this, for they could not otherwise become proprietors.

_A Juryman._ Is it not a purchase for time altogether, are they not all time bargains both the omnium and the stock?

_A._ This is one of those questions I cannot answer.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Gentlemen, he objects to answering the questions as it may criminate him, but the offence charged may have an effect upon the funds, in which not only these individuals are concerned, but every person who has transactions in Stock, the persons belonging to the Court of Chancery, who have to purchase or sell, may be influenced by an improper elevation or depression of the funds, that does not affect the question as to the crime charged upon this record, you will consider Mr. Gurney whether you will persist in the questions, because this man demurs to the answering the questions, being a party in the transaction.

_Mr. Gurney._ You do decline answering that question?

_A._ Yes I do.

_Mr. Robert Hichens sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ I believe you are a Stock-Broker?

_A._ Yes I am.

_Q._ Have you for some years past known Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ I believe you have not done business for him till the present year?

_A._ No.

_Q._ From the 8th of February to the 19th did you make various purchases for him.

_A._ Yes I did.

_Q._ At the leaving off of the business on Saturday what was the balance.

_A._ £250,000.

_Q._ That was all omnium.

_A._ Yes it was.

_Q._ Have you taken from your books a statement of the business you did?

_A._ I have memorandums that will enable me to answer any questions.

_Q._ Has Mr. Baily from your books taken an account of purchases and sales?

_A._ I furnished Mr. Baily with a copy of it.

_Mr. Gurney._ Then through Mr. Baily I will give all the particulars of it.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Whether purchased with money or no they take upon themselves the disposition of that fund, shewing that they had an interest in the rise and fall of the funds, and that they sold on the Monday and gained a profit.

_Mr. Gurney._ Yes my Lord. On Monday morning the 21st how soon did you see Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

_A._ I think between ten and eleven I cannot say exactly.

_Q._ Where did you see him?

_A._ I think I met him as I was coming out of the Stock Exchange.

_Q._ How near ten or eleven?

_A._ I think it must have been about a quarter before eleven but I cannot say positively.

_Q._ Did you receive any directions from him as to what you were to do with respect to the omnium?

_A._ I received an order from him on the Saturday, to sell £50,000 at one per cent. profit, and that I had sold before I saw him.

_Q._ At what had you sold it?

_A._ At 29.

_Q._ Did he give you any further instructions what to do with the remainder?

_A._ He then ordered me to sell a certain quantity at an eighth per cent more.

_Q._ In short did you sell the whole of it that day by his directions?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ At what prices?

_A._ At 29, 29-1/8, 29-1/2, 30-3/4, and 30-7/8.

_Lord Ellenborough._ At those different prices did you dispose of the whole which Mr. Cochrane Johnstone held on that 21st.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ At one or other of those prices.

_A._ Yes.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Topping._

_Q._ Can you tell me what was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's balance on the 15th?

_A._ I think £465,000.

_Q._ On the 16th how much was that reduced?

_A._ On the 16th I sold £200,000.

_Q._ Reducing the balance of course to £265,000.?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Upon the 17th what did you sell?

_A._ On the 17th I bought £50,000. and sold £115,000. reducing the balance to £200,000.; on that Saturday I bought £50,000.

_Q._ And you had his directions upon that Saturday to sell at one per Cent.?

_A._ To sell £50,000. at one per Cent. profit.

_Q._ And you had done that before you saw Mr. Cochrane Johnstone at all?

_A._ Yes, I had.

_Mr. William Smallbone, sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ You are a Stock-broker, I believe?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you shortly before the 21st of February make any purchases for Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ You had made two purchases only, I believe, the 12th and the 14th?

_A._ Yes, only two purchases of £20,000. each.

_Q._ When did you sell them out?

_A._ On the 21st of February.

_Q._ At what did you sell them out.

_A._ 28-1/8, 29-1/4, and 29-1/2.

_Q._ By whose order did you sell them out?

_A._ I sold Mr. Johnstone's by his order; I sold Mr. Butt's by his order.

_Q._ Was that order from Mr. Cochrane Johnstone received on the Monday, or before the Monday?

_A._ In part it was received on the Monday, but a part on the Saturday.

_Q._ You had also, I believe, made purchases in Omnium for Mr. Butt?

_A._ I had.

_Q._ To the amount of £40,000 I believe?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Was that £40,000 left as a balance on Saturday the 19th?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ And all sold out on the Monday?

_A._ Yes, all sold on the 21st.

_Q._ Have you given Mr. Baily a statement from your books of that?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ And of the prices at which it was sold?

_A._ Yes.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Now what is the result of all these accounts?

_Mr. Gurney._ I am going to call one person more, and then I will give your Lordship the totals.

_Q._ You had bought for Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, £40,000, and on that 21st you sold it all?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ You had bought for Mr. Butt £40,000, and on the Monday you sold it all?

_A._ I sold it all on Monday.

_Lord Ellenborough._ If he sells all the sum is immaterial, if you prove that he sold all of the several amounts, it furnishes a constructive motive for what has passed.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Scarlett._

_Q._ When was it you had purchased the £40,000 for Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

_A._ On the 12th and the 14th.

_Q._ Did Mr. Johnstone send you the order to purchase it?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Was it upon his own account?

_A._ No, it was upon his own account, the order was from him.

_Q._ But not upon his own account?

_A._ No, it was not.

_Q._ Was the whole £40,000 purchased at two different times?

_A._ Yes, it was.

_Q._ You stated to my learned Friend, that he gave you an order to sell a part of it on Saturday?

_A._ Yes, he gave me an order on Saturday.

_Q._ What was it?

_A._ To sell at a quarter profit if I had an opportunity.

_Q._ I take for granted that opportunity did not occur on the Saturday?

_A._ No, it did not.

_Q._ Otherwise you would have sold it on the Saturday?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ On the Monday you say he gave you an order as to the other £200,000?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Had you sold the first £20,000 before you saw him on the Monday?

_A._ Yes, I had.

_Q._ At what time in the morning had you sold it?

_A._ I think about half past ten.

_Q._ When did you first see Mr. Johnstone?

_A._ I saw him soon after I had sold out, between ten and eleven.

_Q._ His order had been confined to £20,000 on the Saturday?

_A._ Not exactly to £20,000; if I saw an opportunity of selling any at a quarter profit I was to sell.

_Q._ When you saw him on the Monday, did he then order you to sell the remainder?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you sell it immediately.

_A._ As soon as an opportunity offered to sell it at a profit.

_Q._ Was that early in the day?

_A._ Yes, about eleven I believe.

_Q._ When was it that you first heard any rumour of good news in the morning?

_A._ Soon after the market opened, between ten and eleven.

_Q._ You say you had purchased £40,000 for Mr. Butt?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ When was that?

_A._ The 12th, 14th, and 18th of February.

_Q._ Different sums on those days?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Had you any order from Mr. Butt as to the sales?

_A._ To sell whenever I saw an opportunity of selling at a quarter profit, or three eighths as the circumstances might allow.

_Q._ How long have you known Mr. Butt?

_A._ About six months.

_Q._ Had you had any transactions with him before in that way?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ He had occasionally employed you?

_A._ Yes, he had.

_Q._ Who introduced you to Mr. Johnstone?

_A._ Mr. Johnstone was in Mr. Butt's office when I first saw him there in Sweeting's Alley.

_Q._ It was through Mr. Butt you became acquainted with Mr. Johnstone?

_A._ Yes, it was.

_Q._ If any person had known that this news was false, and had been disposed to be a bear, he might have made his fortune by selling that day, might not he?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ By selling for account?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ You had no directions from either of those Gentlemen to sell more than they had bought that day?

_A._ No I had not.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._

_Q._ You stated to my learned Friend that you had bought large quantities of Omnium on account of this Gentleman, had any of it been paid for.

_A._ Shall I answer that question my Lord?

_Lord Ellenborough._ If the Witness looks at me I must tell him he need not answer any question that implicates him in a crime.

_Mr. Richardson._ You decline answering that question?

_A._ Yes, I do.

_Q._ You will decline answering any other questions that you think implicate yourself.--Were any of those purchases real purchases for stock transferred, or on account?

_A._ It was for Omnium--that cannot be transferred.

_Q._ You spoke of Consols?

_A._ No this was Omnium.

_Q._ Was it all bought or paid for, or on account?

_A._ I decline answering that question.

_Q._ With respect to the Consols had any of them been paid for or transferred?

_A._ I had no Consol account.

_Mr. Richardson._ I will state to your Lordship the object I have in that; I submit it is incumbent upon the prosecutors to prove in support of the allegations of their indictment, which charge a conspiracy for the purpose of enabling Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and the other gentlemen, to sell divers large sums of Government Securities, and so on, that they had an interest in those Government Securities.

_Lord Ellenborough._ That applies only to the two first counts.

_Mr. Gurney._ If I leave my case imperfect, my learned friends will take advantage of it.

_Lord Ellenborough._ It does not apply to the third count, certainly there is a particularity which is quite unnecessary in the others; it states that by certain devices and contrivances they endeavoured to raise the price of the funds, to the prejudice of His Majesty's subjects, to an undue elevation, and so on, there is enough to let in the general evidence.

_Mr. Gurney._ And there is enough in the first count, independently of the sales.

_Mr. Richardson._ The first count states this to be to enable these gentlemen to sell Omnium, and Three per Cent. Consols, at larger prices than they would otherwise have sold for; I submit to your Lordship, that in support of that it is for the prosecutors to shew that they had such to sell?

_Lord Ellenborough._ That will be an observation at the close if they leave their proof imperfect; perhaps I accede to you, but that would only apply to one count, they have six more counts, I do not say that they are all safe counts, but you will see what they propose taking their verdict upon.

_Mr. Malcolm Richardson sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ I believe you are a bookseller and also act as a stock broker.

_A._ I am.

_Q._ You are not a Member of the Stock Exchange.

_A._ No, I am not.

_Q._ In the afternoon of Saturday the 19th of February, did Mr. Butt, make any application to you on the subject of stock.

_A._ On the morning of that day.

_Q._ What did he apply to you to do?

_A._ He applied to me to purchase a quantity of Omnium.

_Q._ How much did he mention?

_A._ He mentioned on the first instance as much as £150,000.

_Q._ What answer did you give to that?

_A._ I hesitated to execute such a commission as that to that extent.

_Q._ How much did you purchase for him?

_A._ £20,000.

_Q._ On that Saturday?

_A._ Yes, in the morning I speak of.

_Q._ What did you do with that £20,000?

_A._ I received instructions to sell it again, if I could get a quarter per cent profit.

_Q._ Did you get a profit and sell it again?

_A._ In a short time I did get three-eighths per cent profit, and consequently sold it again without waiting for instructions.

_Q._ Did you then by his instructions make any further purchase for him?

_A._ I did in the latter part of that day purchase first £20,000 and then £10,000.

_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st did you sell out that £30,000?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ In pursuance of instructions received on the Saturday or on the Monday?

_A._ On the Saturday, at the time I saw him.

_Q._ At what profit did you sell?

_A._ At three-fourths per cent profit.

_Q._ What was the price?

_A._ 28-1/4.

_Q._ Have you given the account of this to Mr. Baily?

_A._ Yes I have.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Brougham._

_Q._ You were partner with Mr. Fearn, Senior, Mr. Butts, broker, were not you?

_A._ Yes, formerly I was.

_Q._ Did you not apply to Mr. Butt, stating that you had a wife and family, and wishing him to give you some employment.

_A._ Mr. Butt had been known to me ten or twelve years, and known to Mr. Fearn, Senior, only as being one of my customers in the book line.

_Q._ Did you not apply to Mr. Butt yourself to ask him to serve you.

_A._ Not upon this occasion at all.

_Q._ Will you hear the question first, and then answer it. Did you never before this apply to Mr. Butt to give you some of his business?

_A._ Yes I did.

_Q._ And he did give you some of his business upon this day?

_A._ He did.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._

_Q._ Was any of the Omnium bought for Mr. Butt, paid for?

_A._ I would rather decline answering that.

_Mr. Francis Baily called again._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ These gentlemen have informed us that they have furnished you with the exact statements of all the purchases and sales; have you drawn out from their statements the purchases and sales, and the daily balances of each?

_A._ I have. It may be necessary to state, Mr. Richardson has not furnished me with a written account, but I have taken it down now from his own mouth.

_Q._ Have you from that made out a general statement of the several accounts containing the daily purchases, the daily sales, and the daily balances?

_A._ I have.

_Q._ For Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt?

_A._ Yes.

_The account was delivered in and read, as follows;--_

====================================================================== | || | General Statement of A. Cochrane Johnstone's Omnium Account, || | from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814 || | || |-------------------------------------------------------------------|| | | through Fearn || through Hichens || |-------------------------------------------------------------------|| | | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily || | |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances|| |----------|---------|--------|--------||---------|--------|------- || |1814, Feb.| | | || | | || | 8 | 10,000 | | 10,000|| | | || | 9 | 47,000 | 10,000| 47,000|| 20,000 | | 20,000|| | 10 | 78,000 | 105,000| 20,000|| 150,000 | | 170,000|| | 11 | 115,000 | 35,000| 100,000|| 95,000 | | 265,000|| | 12 | | | 100,000|| | | 265,000|| | 14 | 96,500 | 100,000| 96,500|| 200,000 | | 465,000|| | 15 | 13,500 | | 110,000|| | | 465,000|| | 16 | 18,500 | 10,000| 118,500|| | 200,000| 265,000|| | 17 | 11,000 | 19,500| 110,000|| 50,000 | 115,000| 200,000|| | 18 | 38,000 | | 148,000|| 50,000 | | 250,000|| | 19 | | 18,000| 130,000|| | | 250,000|| | 21 | | 120,000| 10,000|| | 250,000| || ======================================================================

====================================================================== | || | General Statement of A. Cochrane Johnstone's Omnium Account, || | from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814 || | || |-------------------------------------------------------------------|| | | through Smallbone. || TOTALS. || |-------------------------------------------------------------------|| | | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily || | |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances|| |----------|---------|--------|--------||---------|--------|--------|| |1814, Feb.| | | || | | || | 8 | | | || 10,000 | | 10,000|| | 9 | | | || 67,000 | 10,000| 67,000|| | 10 | | | || 228,000 | 105,000| 190,000|| | 11 | | | || 210,000 | 35,000| 365,000|| | 12 | 20,000| | 20,000|| 20,000 | | 385,000|| | 14 | 20,000| | 40,000|| 316,500 | 100,000| 601,500|| | 15 | | | 40,000|| 13,500 | | 615,000|| | 16 | | | 40,000|| 18,500 | 210,000| 423,500|| | 17 | | | 40,000|| 61,000 | 134,500| 350,000|| | 18 | | | 40,000|| 88,000 | | 438,000|| | 19 | | | 40,000|| | 18,000| 420,000|| | 21 | | 40,000| || | 410,000| 10,000|| ======================================================================

========================================================================= | | || | | | A. Cochrane Johnstone's || Lord Cochrane's | | | Consol Account || Omnium Account, | | |from 12th to 21st Feb. 1814 ||from 14th to 21st Feb. 1814 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | through Fearn || through Fearn | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------| | | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily | | |Purchases| Sales | Balances ||Purchases| Sales | Balances | |----------|---------|--------|----------||---------|--------|----------| |1814, Feb.| | | || | | | | 8 | | | || | | | | 9 | | | || | | | | 10 | | | || | | | | 11 | | | || | | | | 12 | 100,000| | 100,000|| | | | | 14 | | | 100,000|| 100,000| | 100,000| | 15 | | | 100,000|| | | 100,000| | 16 | | | 100,000|| 50,000| | 150,000| | 17 | | | 100,000|| | 50,000| 100,000| | 18 | | | 100,000|| 36,000| | 136,000| | 19 | | | 100,000|| 20,000| 17,000| 139,000| | 21 | | | || | 139,000| | =========================================================================

==================================================================== | || | General Statement of R. G. Butt's Omnium Account, || | from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814. || | || |-----------------------------------------------------------------|| | | through Fearn || through Richardson || |--------|---------|---------|--------||---------|-------|--------|| | | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily| Daily || | |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales|Balances|| |--------|---------|---------|--------||---------|-------|--------|| |Feb. 8 | 10,000| | 10,000|| | | || | 9 | 50,000| 10,000| 50,000|| | | || | 10 | 78,000| 110,000| 18,000|| | | || | 11 | 115,000| 33,000| 100,000|| | | || | 12 | | | 100,000|| | | || | 14 | 96,500| 100,000| 96,500|| | | || | 15 | 13,500| | 110,000|| | | || | 16 | 18,500| 10,000| 118,500|| | | || | 17 | 11,000| 19,500| 110,000|| | | || | 18 | 38,000| | 148,000|| | | || | 19 | | 18,000| 130,000|| 50,000| 20,000| 30,000|| | 21 | | 154,000| 24,000|| | 30,000| || | | | |Sold too|| | | || | | | | much. || | | || ====================================================================

=================================================================== | || | General Statement of R. G. Butt's Omnium Account, || | from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814. || | || |----------------------------------------------------------------|| | | through Smallbone || TOTALS || |--------|---------|----------------||---------------------------|| | | Daily | Daily| Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily || | |Purchases| Sales|Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances|| |--------|---------|-------|--------||---------|--------|--------|| |Feb. 8 | | | || 10,000| | 10,000|| | 9 | | | || 50,000| 10,000| 50,000|| | 10 | | | || 78,000| 110,000| 18,000|| | 11 | | | || 115,000| 33,000| 100,000|| | 12 | 20,000| | 20,000|| 20,000| | 120,000|| | 14 | 10,000| | 30,000|| 106,500| 100,000| 126,500|| | 15 | | | 30,000|| 13,500| | 140,000|| | 16 | | | 30,000|| 18,500| 10,000| 148,500|| | 17 | | | 30,000|| 11,000| 19,500| 140,000|| | 18 | 10,000| | 40,000|| 48,000| | 188,000|| | 19 | | | 40,000|| 50,000| 38,000| 200,000|| | 21 | | 40,000| || | | 24,000|| | | | | || | |Sold too|| | | | | || | | much. || ===================================================================

======================================== | | R. G. Butt's | | | Consol Account, | | |from 11th to 21st Feb. 1814 | |--------|-----------------------------| | | through Fearn | |--------|-----------------------------| | | Daily | Daily| Daily | | |Purchases| Sales| Balances | |--------|---------|-------|-----------| |Feb. 8 | | | | | 9 | | | | | 10 | | | | | 11 | 46,000| 20,000| 26,000| | 12 | 87,000| | 113,000| | 14 | | | 113,000| | 15 | 55,000| | 168,000| | 16 | 40,000| | 208,000| | 17 | | | 208,000| | 18 | | | 208,000| | 19 | | 30,000| 178,000| | 21 | |168,000| 10,000| | | | | | | | | | | ========================================

_Q._ What appears at last to be the gross balance held by each of them on the 19th February; what is Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's balance of Omnium from all those different accounts, on the 19th February?

_A._ £420,000.

_Q._ Now state Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's Consol Account.

_A._ £100,000.

_Q._ What was the balance of Lord Cochrane's Omnium account?

_A._ £139,000.

_Q._ Now state Mr. Butt's.

_A._ £200,000.

_Q._ And it appears, I see, that there were £24,000 sold too much on the Monday.

_A._ Exactly so; there was that quantity sold more than he had purchased.

_Q._ What was Mr. Butt's Consol Account?

_A._ £178,000, and he sold only £168,000.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Then there was £24,000 too much of his Omnium, and £10,000 too little of his Consols sold?

_Mr. Gurney._ Exactly so. Now what was the gross amount of their account of balances on that day?

_A._ £759,000 Omnium, and £278,000 Consols.

_Q._ As we are not so well acquainted with Omnium as you are, if that were reduced to Consols what would they have amounted to?

_A._ It may be necessary to state, that every thousand pounds Omnium consists of £1100 Reduced and £670 Consols, therefore the whole amount of that would be £1,611,430 three per cents.

_Q._ Now upon that amount, what would the fraction of a single eighth per cent. be?

_A._ £2014:5:9.

_Lord Ellenborough._ The whole of this fund was cleared on the 21st, except £10,000 Consols, and it was oversold by £24,000 Omnium?

_A._ Exactly so.

_Mr. Gurney._ Have you calculated from the accounts, the profits made by those sales of the 21st?

_A._ I have.

_Q._ To what does it amount?

_A._ Exactly £10,450.

_Q._ That is the total of the three. Can you give me the proportion of each?

_A._ For Lord Cochrane £2470, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone £4931:5, Mr. Butt £3048:15.

_Q._ From the state of the market on the morning of the 21st if no news had arrived such as raised the funds on that day, could any persons have sold this large quantity of Omnium and Consols without very much depressing the market?

_A._ I should think not certainly.

_Q._ Do you remember at what price Omnium left off on Saturday the 19th?

_A._ I have referred back to the books; I cannot state from my own memory.

_Q._ Have you the books here?

_A._ No; they are the books of the Stock Exchange.

_Q._ Mr. Wetenall's accounts?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ How soon after the business at the Stock Exchange began on the morning of the 21st did the news arrive there?

_A._ I should think in about half an hour after, but I really am not quite certain to that point.

_Lord Ellenborough._ The business begins at ten, I believe?

_A._ Yes.

_Mr. Gurney._ As soon as the news came, had it a sensible effect on the funds?

_A._ Yes; a gradual effect, according as the report was believed.

_Q._ Do you remember after some time whether there was any check or decline?

_A._ Yes; there was about the middle of the day.

_Q._ I mean the first decline.

_A._ Yes; afterwards they recovered.

_Q._ To what was that recovery owing?

_A._ It was generally attributed to the news that came through the city.

_Q._ You mean the chaise coming through the city?

_A._ Yes; it was generally believed it was a confirmation of the former report.

_Q._ Did that second rise which took place upon the chaise going through the city, extend still higher than it had been on the report of the arrival of the messenger?

_A._ I think it did.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._

_Q._ You are not under the same restraint as the other persons are, can you tell us whether these were real transactions, or only fictitious ones which daily take place at the Stock Exchange?

_A._ The accounts which were given in, I think were given in for time, but I have only taken out the figures.

_Lord Ellenborough._ I should imagine the witness would say that from the magnitude of the accounts he would think they were for time?

_A._ Certainly.

_Mr. Park._ I want to know, for I have never had Omnium in my life, whether you are not competent to say from your knowledge of these accounts, that these are all what they call time bargains?

_A._ There is nothing stated upon the face of these accounts as to what days the purchases are made for; possibly they may be for time.

_Q._ I ask you whether from your knowledge of these accounts and the investigations you have made, they are not time bargains?

_Lord Ellenborough._ He has no personal knowledge of them, he can know nothing but from the magnitude of the sum, he may suppose they must have been time bargains.

_A._ Certainly; there is nothing upon the face of the accounts to lead to any such conclusion.

_Mr. James Wetenall, sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ I believe you are employed by the House to take the prices of the day at the Stock Exchange?

_A._ I am.

_Q._ At what price did Omnium leave off on Saturday the 19th of February?

(_The Witness referred to a paper._)

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Where do you get those accounts from?

_A._ I collect them from the Stock Exchange.

_Mr. Gurney._ Do you go about all day long taking the prices?

_A._ I collect them at different times in the course of the day.

_Q._ You go about taking an account from all the persons who are there?