Chapter C: J. Sheriff, member of the council of Brockville, Ontario (1)

George K. Dewey, city clerk of Brockville, Ontario.

F. S. Evanson, mayor of Prescott, Ontario.

R. R. Dowsley, superintendent of the water and light system of Prescott, Ontario.

G. F. Darrow, chairman of the water board of Ogdensburg, N. Y.

Andrew Irving, chairman of the board of public works of Ogdensburg, N. Y.

Frank Chapman, member of the board of commissioners of Ogdensburg, N. Y.

Mr. GARDNER. We will first call on the mayor of Brockville.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE A. WRIGHT, MAYOR OF BROCKVILLE,
ONTARIO.

Mr. WRIGHT. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I shall have very little to say, personally. We have with us our city engineer and medical health officer, who will be able to give you whatever information you require and to ask for whatever information we ourselves desire. It is needless to say that we are very much interested in this question. Pure water has been a big problem with us in the town of Brockville. Within a year we have suffered severely from impure water. Therefore we are looking at the present time for ways and means to secure a supply of pure water. We have been dealing with the question of filtration, but the matter has not been definitely settled by us yet.

As to the disposal of our sewage, our civic officers will give you information regarding that. I do not think it is necessary for me to take up any more of your time than to introduce to you, first, our medical health officer, Dr. Macauley.

Mr. GARDNER. You obtain your water from the St. Lawrence River, do you?

Mr. WRIGHT. We take our drinking water from the St. Lawrence River and discharge our sewage into it.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Do you discharge your sewage into the St. Lawrence River treated or untreated?

Mr. WRIGHT. Untreated.

Mr. TAWNEY. You said that you had suffered severely from impure water within the last year. Will you kindly state what your experience was in that regard?

Mr. WRIGHT. We had a typhoid epidemic about a year ago.

Mr. TAWNEY. How large an epidemic did you have in your town?

Mr. WRIGHT. We had about 180 cases.

Mr. TAWNEY. What is the population of Brockville?

Mr. WRIGHT. About 10,000.

Mr. TAWNEY. How many deaths were there?

Mr. WRIGHT. Fourteen.

Mr. GARDNER. Was that the first instance of typhoid that you had?

Mr. WRIGHT. It was the first epidemic. We had a break in one of our pipes, which I think had something to do with the cause of it.

Mr. TAWNEY. Did you trace the source of the epidemic to the pollution in the river water?

Mr. WRIGHT. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. What is the cause of your pollution?

Mr. WRIGHT. We think the sewage is the cause.

Mr. POWELL. Sewage from where?

Mr. WRIGHT. From the town of Brockville. Of course, as I stated, there was a break in our sewage pipe which permitted the contamination.

Mr. POWELL. Is the source of your intake farther upstream?

Mr. WRIGHT. It is above our sewage outlet; yes, sir.

Mr. MIGNAULT. How far above?

Mr. WRIGHT. Not a great distance, but much farther out in the river. The town engineer will be able to give you that information.

Mr. POWELL. If your intake is farther upstream than the outlet of the sewage, how can the sewage be responsible for the trouble?

Mr. WRIGHT. We have a considerable eddy. On account of the eddy in the river we occasionally find sewage above the town.

Mr. POWELL. That is the town’s own sewage?

Mr. WRIGHT. Yes. We find that the river there is contaminated, and we find a great deal of difficulty in obtaining any samples of pure water in the river anywhere in the neighborhood of the town.

Mr. POWELL. Are there many shoals in the river which cause a deflection of the current?

Mr. WRIGHT. Yes; there are a great many shoals.

Mr. POWELL. That leads to a mixture of the waters on both banks?

Mr. WRIGHT. Yes.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Is there any sewage in the river above Brockville?

Mr. WRIGHT. There are some small summer resorts above the town, and I understand that a limited amount of sewage goes in from them.

Mr. POWELL. How far is it from Brockville to Gananoque?

Mr. WRIGHT. A little over 30 miles. We do not feel that we are contaminated from Gananoque, though.

Mr. POWELL. I suppose you have never made an investigation to see whether you are or not?

Mr. WRIGHT. No.

Mr. MAGRATH. You would rather have those questions directed to your health officer, would you not?

Mr. WRIGHT. I think so. I will ask our health officer, Dr. Macauley, to take the floor now.

STATEMENT OF DR. A. J. MACAULEY, MEDICAL HEALTH OFFICER
OF BROCKVILLE, ONTARIO.

Mr. GARDNER. What is your official position, Dr. Macauley?

Dr. MACAULEY. I am medical health officer of Brockville.

Mr. GARDNER. How long have you occupied that position?

Dr. MACAULEY. About 15 years.

Mr. GARDNER. What has been your observation in regard to the water supply for the city of Brockville?

Dr. MACAULEY. The water supply, the untreated water, for years has been found to be impure. It is much more impure now than it was some years ago, but we have always found colon bacilli in the water.

Mr. GARDNER. In your opinion, does it increase in amount as the time goes on?

Dr. MACAULEY. It certainly has increased.

Mr. POWELL. To what do you attribute the increase?

Dr. MACAULEY. I suppose it is the pollution. There is a constant emptying of sewers into the water all the way up. As you will find by investigation, the St. Lawrence River is polluted all the way up, even above the towns where the summer resorts are.

Mr. MIGNAULT. There are a large number of boats that ply on the river, are there not?

Dr. MACAULEY. There are a great many boats; I could not say as to the number.

Mr. MIGNAULT. I suppose the islands and the riparian communities are increasing in population, and the increase in sewage would be the logical result?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you ever made any independent examinations?

Dr. MACAULAY. Examinations have been made by our board. They are made every week. I think from four to six samples a week are analyzed, and the raw water is now found to be constantly polluted.

Mr. TAWNEY. Have you a water-filtration plant?

Dr. MACAULEY. We have not. We chlorinate our water by gas chlorination.

Mr. POWELL. What would be the average summer contamination, expressed in colon bacilli?

Dr. MACAULEY. We find colon bacilli practically constant in 5 to 10 cubic centimeters.

Mr. GARDNER. Do you notice any difference in the amount of pollution in winter and summer?

Dr. MACAULEY. I think it is practically the same; perhaps it may be a little higher in the summer season.

Mr. MIGNAULT. What have you done locally to remedy the situation, Dr. Macauley?

Dr. MACAULEY. Our epidemic was due to an accident. The intake pipe we have now extends 700 feet out into the St. Lawrence from the dock, but the one we had before extended only a little over 100 feet into the river. There is an eddy that flows down to Picketts Point right below Brockville, and it goes right straight up back along the shore; but our sewage pipe extends about 900 feet down and about 800 feet from the shore. In December about two years ago a boat anchor got a hold of the sewer pipe down below our intake pipe and opened it about 200 feet from shore. It made an opening in the joint of the pipe, and we got the pollution from the sewage into the intake pipe. That is undoubtedly what caused the epidemic. When that was remedied the epidemic stopped.

Our water is chlorinated. We use about 100 pounds of hypochloride to 3,000,000 gallons of water. It is put in as an equivalent, because we use gas instead of the chlorine.

Mr. GARDNER. Have you more than one outlet to your sewage discharge?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes; we have. We have an outlet at the western end of the town. Our engineer will give you the capacity of that outlet. Our main outlet is below the town and also below our intake pipe.

Mr. POWELL. Your system of piping is a series of small pipes, is it not?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes; but there is a trunk sewer.

Mr. POWELL. How large are those pipes?

Dr. MACAULEY. The engineer can give you that information.

Mr. POWELL. Dr. Macauley, on which side of the river is the riparian population increasing most rapidly, on the United States or the Canadian side?

Dr. MACAULEY. I think it is increasing most rapidly on the Canadian side; perhaps not in the summer resorts; there is quite a large population on the islands, but principally on the American side. The population is increasing very rapidly each year.

Mr. POWELL. When you say on the Canadian side do you mean exclusive of Brockville?

Dr. MACAULEY. Well, they are increasing every year.

Mr. POWELL. As rapidly as on the American side?

Dr. MACAULEY. I do not think so with respect to the summer resorts, because the majority of the islands are on the American side.

Mr. POWELL. What is the density of the population during the time that the summer residents are there?

Dr. MACAULEY. I could scarcely tell you that.

Mr. POWELL. I want to get the floating population passing from one side to the other.

Dr. MACAULEY. I could not give you that information. There is a great deal of pollution undoubtedly from the boats.

Mr. MIGNAULT. There is quite a large summer population on the islands?

Dr. MACAULEY. There is, particularly this summer.

Mr. MIGNAULT. You do not make provision for letting the surface water of the city pass into your sewerage system, do you?

Dr. MACAULEY. Partially it does; but it enters the St. Lawrence by a separate pipe.

Mr. GARDNER. How many cases of typhoid fever do you think developed in consequence of the sewage pollution in your water supply?

Dr. MACAULEY. At that time?

Mr. GARDNER. Yes; that is approximately how many cases?

Dr. MACAULEY. There is no doubt that the breaking of the intake pipe was practically the cause of the epidemic. We have had too high a typhoid content always until the water was heavily chlorinated. We have chlorinated our water since 1910.

Mr. GARDNER. Previous to that time did you have an epidemic of typhoid?

Dr. MACAULEY. We had in 1909 a slight epidemic. There were, perhaps, 25 or 30 cases. I could not give you the exact number now. We had none in 1910. The dredging that was being done along the river front was practically the cause of the epidemic. We have never been as free from typhoid as we were this last summer. We have never had any cases that we could trace to the water since it has been highly chlorinated. Still our water is always suspicious, and if anything went wrong with the chlorination plant we would surely have typhoid.

Mr. MIGNAULT. At the time of the last epidemic the water was chlorinated?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes; but it was not chlorinated highly enough. We practically got sewage into our water pipe.

Mr. POWELL. I suppose there was too great a burden thrown on your chlorinating system?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. In the official circles of your city has the question of purification of your sewage ever been mooted or discussed?

Dr. MACAULEY. Not of our sewage. We have been for some time agitating very seriously the question of putting in a filtration plant.

Mr. POWELL. That is for your water for consumption?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. But what about the sewage?

Dr. MACAULEY. The sewage is never treated.

Mr. MAGRATH. Have any demands been made upon you by the public-health service of Ontario to improve your system?

Dr. MACAULEY. We have been notified that the time would come when we would have to do that. We are trying to get our filtration plant in. We thought last year that we practically had it.

Mr. POWELL. You would look after your water and let the other fellow look after the sewage?

Dr. MACAULEY. Self-preservation first, always.

Mr. MAGRATH. Have you any complaints against the pollution of water from this side crossing over to the Canadian side?

Dr. MACAULEY. I do not know that we have. Examinations made by our local board have shown that for several miles up the river the pollution is practically constant in the raw water.

Mr. POWELL. Across the whole river?

Dr. MACAULEY. Right across the channel. We examined all the way across.

Mr. POWELL. But you have had no independent examination?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes; we have.

Mr. POWELL. And that independent examination showed the same results as our examinations?

Dr. MACAULEY. Practically the same.

Mr. POWELL. Showing that contamination extends across the whole channel?

Dr. MACAULEY. Across the whole channel and all the way up.

Mr. POWELL. Has any opposition on the part of the citizens to purification of the sewage, or sterilization of it, ever manifested itself?

Dr. MACAULEY. I think not. It has been mooted, but no definite action has been taken.

Mr. POWELL. Why was not definite action taken in compliance with the request of the provincial board?

Dr. MACAULEY. I think the lack of funds was the main thing.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Did you ever have studies made as to sewage treatment in Brockville?

Dr. MACAULEY. No; I think not; not for Brockville especially.

Mr. MAGRATH. It is just your water supply that you are contemplating improving?

Dr. MACAULEY. At the present time that is all. We know that we shall have to improve the other in time. No doubt it is dangerous.

Mr. MIGNAULT. But you have not seriously considered it so far?

Dr. MACAULEY. I can not say that we have. It has not been brought to my notice if it has been.

Mr. POWELL. The engineer can probably answer this question, but his experience may not go far enough back. Has any investigation ever been made as to the natural facilities that are afforded for sedimentation beds and things of that kind on the other side of the boundary?

Dr. MACAULEY. I think not.

Mr. POWELL. Have you ever heard of any complaints owing to sewage from vessels passing up and down the river?

Dr. MACAULEY. Yes; we have heard complaints. During the year 1909 one of our wharves was in bad condition, and many of the large boats stopped at a point that was practically over the end of our intake pipe. That was doubtless the cause of our epidemic. There is no doubt that the year the boats were there there was an epidemic. We went so far as to prohibit the boats staying there. We prohibited the large liners or passenger boats tying up to that wharf. For some months, however, they did tie up to the wharf.

Mr. POWELL. As a man having to do with sanitary matters, what is your opinion regarding the effect of the boats discharging the sewage into the river? Is the discharging of that sewage into the river detrimental to health on your side?

Dr. MACAULEY. Undoubtedly.

Mr. MAGRATH. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that if Dr. Macauley as the health officer of a great town along the river here wishes to make any statement to the commission he may do so. He may have gotten the idea that he is here to ask questions. If he has anything to say on the subject, this is the time to say it.

Dr. MACAULEY. I do not know of anything special at this time. Something may later suggest itself to my mind.

Mr. TAWNEY. Can anyone here give us information as to the number of vessels passing up and down this river in front of Brockville? Is there any record that would give such information?

Dr. MACAULEY. I do not think we have any such record.

Mr. GARDNER. I suppose, Dr. Macauley, that you are willing to say that the tonnage passing up and down the river here is very large?

Dr. MACAULEY. Certainly there are a great many people passing up and down the river on the line of boats, the _Kingston_ and the _Toronto_, especially this season. Owing to the fact that the season has been a very hot one, the boats have been crowded all summer.

Mr. POWELL. I suppose the reports of the lock masters of the canals would give us some idea of the number of boats passing up and down.

Dr. MACAULEY. I do not think so, because a large portion of the travel comes from the train or from Brockville; but a large number of passengers would go only as far as Prescott. I think it would be only a fractional part would go to Montreal.

STATEMENT OF MR. G. H. BRYSON, CITY ENGINEER OF BROCKVILLE,
ONTARIO.

Mr. GARDNER. Mr. Bryson, you are the city engineer of Brockville, are you?

Mr. BRYSON. I am.

Mr. GARDNER. How long have you held that position?

Mr. BRYSON. Four and a half years.

Mr. GARDNER. Have you with you plans of your sewerage system?

Mr. BRYSON. No; I did not bring any. They are on file with the commission’s original report of 1914.

Mr. GARDNER. Can you give us a general outline of the character of your sewerage system?

Mr. BRYSON. The town is divided into two systems. One system discharges into what is called the west-end division. The main sewerage area takes about three-fourths of the area of the town and discharges about 820 feet from the intake pipe. It starts with a 16-inch outlet and then follows up with an 8-inch outlet in the river. The original system was laid out to take only sanitary sewage, but for some reason that was abandoned. The west-end system is a 9-inch pipe, except the small piece of 8-inch cast-iron pipe running into the river. That discharges about half a mile above the intake pipe. It is practically all sanitary sewage.

Mr. GARDNER. What is the nature of the surface of the country there? Is it flat?

Mr. BRYSON. No; it is very hilly. We have really three watersheds in the town.

Mr. GARDNER. As an engineer, would it, in your judgment, be very difficult to put an intercepting sewer in there for the purpose of purifying the sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. Plans have been gotten out for intercepting all the west end sewage and bringing it into the main system.

Mr. MAGRATH. Have those plans been approved by the public health service?

Mr. BRYSON. No; they have never gone to them, but it is a recommendation from them that the sewage from the west end be pumped into the main sewerage system. That was one of the conditions contained in the original order, that the west end sewage be passed into the main sewerage system.

Mr. POWELL. What is the estimated cost of that work?.

Mr. BRYSON. About $10,000.

Mr. GARDNER. That was a suggestion for the purification of your sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. It was just simply to divert the sewage so it would go out below the intake.

Mr. GARDNER. You have never taken into consideration the purification of your sewage before it is discharged?

Mr. BRYSON. No; nothing has been done about that.

Mr. POWELL. What is the axis of this rotary area where you have the back flow?

Mr. BRYSON. I beg your pardon?

Mr. POWELL. There is a back flow on the Brockville side. What is the major axis, and what is the minor axis?

Mr. BRYSON. It flows west to about the Canadian Pacific Railway dock and then turns down the river.

Mr. POWELL. About how far is it from where it starts to flow up to the end of the curve?

Mr. BRYSON. It starts about half a mile below the town. I should think it is out about 800 feet. The intake is supposed to be across the present eddy.

Mr. POWELL. Just beyond it, near the margin.

Mr. BRYSON. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. During your time has the pollution increased very much?

Mr. BRYSON. It has increased with the population in the western end of the town.

Mr. POWELL. Have you ever made any estimate as to what the cost would be of sterilization by sedimentation or otherwise of the sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. No, sir.

Mr. MAGRATH. So far as I can gather, you have been the chief offender against yourself in the past.

Mr. BRYSON. I think so, Mr. Magrath.

Mr. GARDNER. Your concern has been chiefly in regard to your water supply?

Mr. BRYSON. It has been to protect ourselves.

Mr. GARDNER. And you have no complaint to make about the water being polluted in the stream above you?

Mr. BRYSON. No.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Are there any large towns below Brockville that would be polluted by your sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. Prescott is the only possible place that could be affected by it, I think.

Mr. POWELL. There is no surface sewage that passes into your western system?

Mr. BRYSON. There is very little; nothing to speak of.

Mr. POWELL. Does all the surface sewage in the lower system pass into your pipes?

Mr. BRYSON. It passes into other pipes now; but for the last four years we have been taking out such surface sewage as we could because we have been having very heavy floods in the lower pipes of the town.

Mr. POWELL. Could you avoid a pumping system in disposing of your sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. No; we have to pump. The location of a plant would be very difficult from the present point of discharge.

Mr. POWELL. Have you any idea from what elevation you would have to pump the sewage in order to dispose of it?

Mr. BRYSON. I think to get land we would have to go outside of the town limits entirely.

Mr. POWELL. But how high would you have to go?

Mr. BRYSON. About 90 feet.

Mr. POWELL. That would be quite expensive?

Mr. BRYSON. Yes. There is no available land in sight.

Mr. MAGRATH. You have no general statement that you wish to make regarding this situation, have you?

Mr. BRYSON. Dr. Macauley was asked about the pollution in the river. Last year I went out all over the lake taking samples and sent them to the provincial board of health. Every one showed contamination. We crossed the main channel and right over to the American side. We went up the river to Big Island.

Mr. GARDNER. Did that investigation cover the whole surface of the river from shore to shore?

Mr. BRYSON. We took samples every 400 feet right across.

Mr. POWELL. Have there ever been any complaints made by the lower communities on your side against the sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. No.

Mr. POWELL. You have never been threatened with any lawsuits?

Mr. BRYSON. No.

Mr. EVANSON. May I ask Mr. Bryson a question?

Mr. GARDNER. Certainly.

Mr. EVANSON. Mr. Bryson, in speaking of purifying the sewage of the town of Brockville you said it would have to be pumped for a considerable distance. Do not the sewers go down some of the principal streets of Brockville?

Mr. BRYSON. Yes.

Mr. EVANSON. Is it not possible that a plant could be built under ground beneath those streets to take care of the sewage?

Mr. BRYSON. I do not think so. I think we would have to spend too much money in rock excavation.

Mr. EVANSON. I know that Mr. Murray, of Toronto, suggested that system to me some years ago. He said it could be taken care of without pumping at all.

Mr. BRYSON. Our outlet is in rock now and it is below the level of the St. Lawrence.

Mr. POWELL. There is not much rise and fall of the St. Lawrence River here, is there?

Mr. BRYSON. No; not very much.

Mr. POWELL. About what is the range?

Mr. BRYSON. About 4 feet at Brockville.

Mr. POWELL. Is there much shallow water on the Brockville side?

Mr. BRYSON. Not along the main water front. It is only along the west end that it begins to get shallow. There is a shoal over there.

Mr. POWELL. Is there an area there of some acres of shallow water?

Mr. BRYSON. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. Could you not dike it off? Or would that be too expensive?

Mr. BRYSON. Yes; it would be too expensive.

Mr. GARDNER. Is there anyone else from Brockville who wishes to be heard?

Mr. WRIGHT. Possibly we might hear from the chairman of the water commission, if the question of filtration is of any interest to this commission.

Mr. GARDNER. This commission is not so much concerned about the purification of your water supply as about the purification of your sewage.

Mr. WRIGHT. I understand that. The point we wish to establish is that so far as our experience goes we have not been able to find pure water in the river irrespective of any pollution that comes from the town of Brockville. While no doubt there is pollution from the sewage in the town of Brockville, at the same time in all our experience with the river we have been unable to find pure water in the neighborhood of the town, either above or below the sewage outlet. Therefore, we have come to the conclusion that the river is polluted irrespective of our sewage.

Mr. MAGRATH. Do you know of any community treating the sewage above you?

Mr. WRIGHT. No, sir.

Mr. GARDNER. The commission would be glad to hear from the chairman of the water commission.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. H. KYLE, CHAIRMAN OF THE PUBLIC
UTILITIES COMMISSION OF BROCKVILLE, ONTARIO.

Mr. KYLE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen: We had tests made of the water above the town, away above any contamination from our sewage, and I believe to-day if we could get pure water above Brockville we could put a pumping plant up there.

Mr. MAGRATH. And treat your sewage so as to leave the people below you in the same position?

Mr. KYLE. We are in the position that we take that as an international question, and there would be no use of their treating it unless it is made general. The water is polluted also from the big insane asylum there. That will have to be taken into consideration when the question of the town of Brockville is considered.

Mr. GARDNER. Where is that located, in reference to your city?

Mr. KYLE. It is about a mile below our city. I believe we can not get any pure water in the river at the present time and that we shall have to treat our sewage and also put in a filtration plant. I believe that the trouble in our water is caused by shipping. I remember passing one of those big liners in a motor boat one day. I do not know what sort of an apparatus they had, but they dumped the material, and everybody immediately grabbed their handkerchiefs and held their noses until they got by. I believe that has a great deal to do with the contamination of the water. Many of the summer residents also wrap their garbage in paper and throw it in the river.

Mr. GARDNER. That is increasing in amount?

Mr. KYLE. Every year.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Have you any idea as to the summer population above Brockville?

Mr. KYLE. Practically all the islands are occupied now, as well as the shores, by summer residents, and at Alexandria Bay there are thousands and thousands of people every day. I think we are getting more contamination from the vicinity of Alexandria Bay than we are perhaps from Gananoque.

Mr. MIGNAULT. How far are you from Alexandria Bay?

Mr. KYLE. About 22 miles.

Mr. MIGNAULT. How far are you from Gananoque?

Mr. KYLE. About 30 miles. I think probably in another year we will filter our water. I think the water should be filtered, no matter whether the sewage is treated or not.

Mr. MIGNAULT. I suppose the point you make, Mr. Kyle, is that unless all communities treat their sewage, the treatment of sewage at Brockville would not help you?

Mr. KYLE. It would not affect us and would not affect the other towns. They would still have to chlorinate.

Mr. MIGNAULT. In other words, the water as it comes down from Brockville is already polluted.

Mr. KYLE. Yes.

Mr. MIGNAULT. And I suppose, inasmuch as the summer population on the islands is increasing, you could hardly expect that any system of treatment of sewage or garbage going into the river could be ever attempted?

Mr. KYLE. I do not know just how they would get after them. But they would have to burn the garbage and treat their sewage. It is a serious question for the municipalities. They have all issued debentures for putting in plants for the disposal of the sewage, I suppose with the permission of the Government. Some towns can do it very easily, but in our town it would be a very serious question.

Mr. MIGNAULT. I understand that no studies have been made as to sewage treatment in Brockville.

Mr. KYLE. Well, not to any great extent. The engineers have informed us that it would be a very expensive undertaking on account of the rocky formation and the hilly ground on which we are located.

Mr. POWELL. As I understand you, your personal view is that there should be a general prevention of the deposit into the river of raw sewage?

Mr. KYLE. Yes; it is my view that it should be prevented by both the United States and Canada.

Mr. POWELL. You think it should be prevented by all concerned?

Mr. KYLE. Yes; by all concerned.

Mr. POWELL. All communities should be prohibited from depositing raw sewage into the river.

Mr. KYLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. MIGNAULT. You would still have trouble from the campers on the islands, even if the communities treated their sewage?

Mr. KYLE. Yes.

Mr. GARDNER. And from navigation also?

Mr. KYLE. Yes, sir; also from navigation.

Mr. POWELL. You are in favor of that as applying to the whole community, but you think that it would be of no avail for any particular community to attempt purification because of the communities above?

Mr. KYLE. Yes, sir; because the boats would still contaminate the water.

Mr. POWELL. Have you ever brought to the notice of the steamboat association the pollution of the waters of the river through the boats?

Mr. KYLE. Only by ordering them away from our docks. We have a dock at the pumping station where the boats sometimes land, and we have refused to allow them to land; but that applies more to our old intake pipe than to the present one.

Mr. POWELL. But the fact remains that their presence there has the effect of polluting the water?

Mr. KYLE. We simply ordered them away as a precaution.

Mr. POWELL. Was it a mere precautionary measure or was it because they were a source of pollution?

Mr. KYLE. At that time we believed they were stirring up the water, and the diver told us that the bottom was all soft stuff and it would be naturally stirred up and go into the intake pipe. They can not do that now. There is no question but what our water with the new intake pipe is very much better than we got before.

Mr. POWELL. Then, what is the ground of your complaint? Is it against the steamboats in that they stir up the deposit at the bottom of the river, or that they add to the pollution?

Mr. KYLE. At the present time they add to the pollution. I do not think they stir it up to any great extent.

Mr. POWELL. And you believe that is a real source of danger?

Mr. KYLE. Yes.

Mr. MAGRATH. Do you think that the passenger traffic is of sufficient size to be a danger?

Mr. KYLE. I do. I think a thousand people coming out on a boat would produce pollution in the river.

Mr. GARDNER. Have you any idea of the number of people that passed up and down the river in boats during a season within the past two years?

Mr. KYLE. The excursion steamer _Thousand Islander_ goes out with a thousand people. It very seldom goes farther than Alexandria Bay, which is about 28 miles from Brockville.

Mr. POWELL. How many trips does she make a week?

Mr. KYLE. She makes a trip every day, practically; but that is only one of the boats.

Mr. GARDNER. Do you think that on an average a thousand people a day pass up and down the river during the period of navigation?

Mr. KYLE. For the total number of boats; yes, sir; very many more. I think that around Alexandria Bay there are two or three thousand people, or more, perhaps, every day, because the boats from Kingston run in there.

Mr. Dewey has just informed me that he thinks there would be 30,000 people during the day within 30 miles of Brockville on passenger steamers.

Mr. GARDNER. That would have reference to the whole navigation season?

Mr. DEWEY. Yes; and during July and August I think it would be a very conservative estimate to say that there would be 35,000 people on steamers every day.

Mr. POWELL. About how many freight steamers pass up and down daily?

Mr. DEWEY. I could not say. There is a continuous line of them. The majority of the boats that go through the Welland Canal, freight boats, that pass down the river, pass by here.

Mr. GARDNER. I do not suppose you have any means of knowing what the average river population would be during the entire navigation season?

Mr. DEWEY. No, sir.

Mr. GARDNER. It would fall off greatly, of course, after what you might term the vacation season?

Mr. DEWEY. My estimate of the number of people, tourists, would be from the regular line of boats and the excursion steamers passing.

Mr. GARDNER. How late do these steamers run on the river here?

Mr. DEWEY. Until the middle of September.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Can you give us an idea as to the population on the islands?

Mr. DEWEY. On the islands in the immediate vicinity of Brockville there are about 1,500 people.

Mr. MAGRATH. You say Brockville people?

Mr. DEWEY. Probably Brockville people.

Mr. MIGNAULT. But from elsewhere than Brockville, what would the total be?

Mr. DEWEY. The number of nonresidents of Brockville that would be in the vicinity of Brockville would not be very large.

Mr. MIGNAULT. I am referring to the population that might affect the water flowing past Brockville.

Mr. DEWEY. There would not be any substantial increase there, but I should think it would be safe to say that there would be anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 people in the immediate vicinity of Alexandria Bay and Clayton during the summer months.

Mr. POWELL. I was told that on one island alone there were pretty nearly 10,000 people as a floating population.

Mr. DEWEY. Yes; that is on Thousand Island Park.

Mr. POWELL. You will find the floating population of Thousand Islands and Alexandria Bay to be pretty close to 50,000.

Mr. DEWEY. Yes; but these would be permanent for the summer. There is practically none in the immediate vicinity of Brockville occupied by summer cottages.

Mr. POWELL. Taking the region that we have loosely called the Thousand Island region, what would be the floating population of those islands and the vicinity on the main land?

Mr. KYLE. That is difficult to say because they are coming in by the thousand every day and staying a day and then leaving. I believe 100,000 a day would be a conservative estimate for the islands and the immediate shores.

Mr. POWELL. Mr. Dallyn, did the bacteriological examinations that were made on the river here cover the season when the floating population was present?

Mr. DALLYN. There were two examinations made. We were on the river with a laboratory from about the middle of April until the end of May, and from about the 10th of August, to the 20th of August. It is reported in the progress report.

Mr. POWELL. Have you any data, exact or otherwise, as to the summer population of the district?

Mr. DALLYN. No; but I think there is something in Dr. McLaughlin’s report as to that. We made no calculations ourselves. I know the populations of Cape Vincent and Clayton double themselves in the summer; but what the island population and the excursion population were I have not any idea.

Mr. MIGNAULT. Is there any record available to show what that summer population amounts to?

Mr. DALLYN. I am not sure.

Mr. MIGNAULT. It is rather important to know because that is a feature, that and the pollution, and it strikes me at the present moment that even if the communities treat their sewage and the boats sterilize theirs, there will be still a danger from this summer population camping on the islands.

Mr. DALLYN. Yes; that is true. They will come, of course, under township regulations. I do not know just how they handle them on the American side. In the Muskoka Lakes we make them treat their sewage properly.

Mr. MIGNAULT. How do they accomplish that?

Mr. DALLYN. They have various methods of getting at it. Some use the chemical process, and store it and pump it out in a nocuous form into beds. Some lay piles through the sand.

Mr. MIGNAULT. What is your opinion as to the danger of pollution from your summer population?

Mr. DALLYN. It is very serious. We were very much amazed in making a minute survey on some of the islands to find that their sewage outlet and their intakes would be only 40 feet away from each other, making it practically certain that the two would mingle.

Mr. TAWNEY. Mr. Dallyn, I have here a report which you and Dr. McLaughlin and Dr. McCullough made, a portion of which I wish to read into the record. From page 50 of the progress report I read as follows:

While examination below Wolfe Island among the Thousand
Islands did not show an average gross pollution, its
intermittent character presents a menace to the summer
residents in this section who take their supply of water
from the river without purification.

Examinations made in the vicinity of Brockville showed
that the shore samples collected from the cross section
above Brockville carried considerable pollution. Toward
midstream, where dilution and mixing had taken place,
the samples showed constant pollution of lesser degree.
Below Brockville the major pollution remained near the
banks of the river. Samples collected in midstream showed
very little pollution in the early work before navigation
opened. The latter work in August showed a very general
serious pollution, due probably to summer resort population
and to boat traffic. The condition of the river between
Brockville and Cornwall is very bad in the summer months,
as evidenced by midstream samples Nos. 266-273.

Unquestionably, the water from this portion of the St.
Lawrence River should not be used as a water supply without
adequate purification.

Mr. POWELL. It is a fact, is it not, that the pollution at these summer resorts is steadily and rapidly increasing?

Mr. DALLYN. Undoubtedly so.

Mr. TAWNEY. There has been more this year than ever before, on account of the long period of hot weather, and also the fact that many people who have formerly gone abroad on their vacations have remained here.

Mr. DALLYN. The education of the people has improved very materially during the last few years, and they demand better conditions at the summer resorts.

Mr. POWELL. You are quite familiar with the Thousand Island region, are you not?

Mr. DALLYN. We spent about a month there in small boats.

Mr. POWELL. Passing in and out among the islands?

Mr. DALLYN. Yes, sir.

Mr. POWELL. Bearing in mind what Mr. Tawney read from the progress report to the effect that there was a greater admixture of water above Brockville than below, that would be due, would it not, to the various channels and rapids among these islands?

Mr. DALLYN. Yes, sir; and the channel is very tortuous just at that point.

Mr. POWELL. And there are jetties in all directions, which result in a general churning and admixture of the water.

Mr. DALLYN. We discovered that the Cataraqui Bay at Kingston periodically discharged itself completely into the St. Lawrence. That would give us a very high pollution. It is simply a tidal effect. The river seems to flow in both directions opposite Kingston.

Mr. MAGRATH. How far is it from Kingston to Charlotte?

Mr. DALLYN. I am really not aware. I imagine it would be about 130 miles.

STATEMENT OF F. S. EVANSON, MAYOR OF PRESCOTT, ONTARIO.

Mr. EVANSON. Prescott lies opposite Ogdensburg on the Canadian side of the St. Lawrence River, and the river at this point is about 1¼ miles in width. We have a splendid water system in Prescott for a town of its size. We obtain the water in the St. Lawrence River. We have three outlets for our sewers. We discharge our sewage into the river in a raw condition.

Mr. GARDNER. Have you ever contemplated the purification of your sewage in any way?

Mr. EVANSON. We have never considered it.

Mr. GARDNER. You have never had it under consideration?

Mr. EVANSON. No.

Mr. GARDNER. In your opinion, would it be a difficult thing to do?

Mr. EVANSON. No; I think we could treat it all right. Prescott has been most fortunate in that we have not had any experience of an epidemic of any kind. Brockville has been troubled with typhoid for some years, but we have been free from it. We never attempted to chlorinate the water until Brockville had an epidemic a few years ago, and we chlorinated the water as a precaution. At present we have not a case of fever in Prescott. You will find that the fever cases in Prescott are much below the average.

Mr. MAGRATH. You are satisfied?

Mr. EVANSON. We are satisfied with the conditions as they exist at present.

Mr. GARDNER. How long have you been treating your water?

Mr. EVANSON. Since the epidemic in Brockville we have been treating it most of the time. I regret that the medical health officer of the municipality could not come here to-day. I may state that the quantity of chlorine we put into the water is lowered at certain seasons of the year.

Mr. GARDNER. Did you have anything of the nature of an epidemic in your town before you commenced to treat the water?

Mr. EVANSON. We never had. I was mayor of the town in 1910 and 1911 and during that time I asked the medical health officer frequently to send in samples of our water, and he did so. He took the water from the taps in the town, and not from the river, and it was rarely shown that it was contaminated in any way. I can only remember one occasion on which there was slight contamination.

Mr. GARDNER. At what point in the river is your intake?

Mr. EVANSON. The intake pipe is at the most westerly point in the town and it runs into the river for 400 feet.

Mr. GARDNER. Do you find the channel within that distance?

Mr. EVANSON. No; we would not be out in the channel at that distance. The nearest sewer pipe is 1,500 feet from the intake pipe.

Mr. GARDNER. That would be down the river.

Mr. EVANSON. Yes. Of course I think the current of the river at Prescott improves the conditions there. It is said that the water flows by there at about 4 miles an hour. We have no eddies at all such as they have at Brockville. At Brockville there is a point that juts out and obstructs the flow of the river at the west side, and that is the cause of the eddy there, but we have no eddy whatever at Prescott.

Mr. GARDNER. Is the river narrower opposite Prescott than it is opposite Brockville?

Mr. EVANSON. I think it is about the same width as at Brockville; we are about a mile and a quarter across here.

Dr. MCCULLOUGH. The river is one mile and three-quarters wide at Brockville.

Mr. GARDNER. What is the average depth of the river here from shore to shore?

Mr. EVANSON. I can not say as to that. Of course, along our docks at Prescott, the river is 14 or 15 feet, and the two Richelieu boats are in there every morning, the one from the west coming in at 7 o’clock, and it remains there until 10 o’clock or half past 10, and the boat from the west comes in at 10 o’clock and remains there until noon. The sewage would not contaminate our water because the sewage outlets are at least half a mile east of our intake pipe.

Mr. GARDNER. Did you notice any disturbance of the river bottom when these steamboats are leaving or arriving at the wharf?

Mr. EVANSON. No. Of course the town owns the western wharf where our water system is and no boats tie up there at all; the only boat that comes there is an occasional boat with coal.

Mr. POWELL. Have the town authorities at Prescott ever considered the advisability of purifying or sterilizing the sewage?

Mr. EVANSON. In 1911 we put in a further sewerage extension in the east end of the town. We had two outlets then. We extended the sewer in the east end of the town, and in order to get an outlet for that extension we had to put the east one farther west, and the question was considered then, but it was decided that it was useless to purify the sewage at one small outlet and let the two larger outlets go without purification. The question received some consideration then. It was suggested that we could put in a plant which would take care of the purification of the sewage.

Mr. POWELL. Have you the same rock formation at Prescott as at Brockville?

Mr. EVANSON. I do not know of any harder rock than we have at Prescott; you are liable to run into it at any place in the town.

Mr. MAGRATH. What is the assessed value of the property in your municipality?

Mr. EVANSON. A little over $2,000,000.

Mr. MAGRATH. What is your rate of taxation?

Mr. EVANSON. The rate of taxation varies from 25 to 27 mills.

Mr. MAGRATH. Is the water supply of your town satisfactory to the public health authorities of Ontario?

Mr. EVANSON. I think so.

Mr. GARDNER. What is the basis of taxation; is it the full value of the property?

Mr. EVANSON. No; I think it is about 75 per cent of the value of the property, I think that is the way the assessor places it.

Mr. POWELL. What is the rate of taxation?

Mr. EVANSON. Twenty-seven mills on the dollar last year; that is $27 on the thousand.

Mr. POWELL. Does that cover everything?

Mr. EVANSON. Yes; of course it does not cover the water and light rate; it covers the general taxes of the town and the school rate; the school rate is about 11 mills.

Mr. POWELL. The individuals who consume the water pay for it?

Mr. EVANSON. Yes; and the municipality owns it.

Mr. GARDNER. What is your indebtedness?

Mr. EVANSON. Our indebtedness would run about $170,000. I should say that in the neighborhood of $100,000 of that covers the water and light system. Of course, the water and the light take care of their own departments. We own the water and the light plants.

Mr. GARDNER. And a proportion of your indebtedness is because of your ownership of these utilities?

Mr. EVANSON. Yes. When we put in the water and light systems in 1900 we issued debentures for $120,000 at that time to take care of it. We have extended the sewerage system since at a cost of $25,000 or $30,000.

Mr. POWELL. If the purification of sewage is made obligatory along the river here I suppose that your town would have no objection to comply with the general rule?

Mr. EVANSON. Certainly not.

Mr. POWELL. But you would have objection to be singled out and compelled to do that if other people were allowed to go free?

Mr. EVANSON. Yes. Prescott is most fortunate in having first-class water in the river here, and that has been the condition for a number of years. I think it proves that flowing water will purify itself in a distance of 12 miles, because there must be a great amount of sewage flowing into the river at Brockville, which is 12 miles above us.

Mr. GARDNER. Unless you have some general statement to make to the commission I think that is all we want to hear from you, Mr. Evanson.

Mr. EVANSON. I have nothing further to say. I say that the municipality of Prescott will be glad to carry out the wishes of this commission and of the United States and Canada if a means can be devised to purify sewage.

STATEMENT AS TO ASSESSED VALUE OF BROCKVILLE.

Mr. GARDNER. I wish to ask the mayor of Brockville what the assessed valuation of the town is.

Mr. DEWEY (city clerk, Brockville). The assessed valuation of the town is about $5,000,000, and the population 9,500.

Mr. GARDNER. What is your rate of taxation?

Mr. DEWEY. Thirty mills this year.

Mr. GARDNER. What is your basis of value; is it full value?

Mr. DEWEY. No. Under the law it is supposed to be.

Mr. POWELL. Is that a supposition contrary to the fact?

Mr. DEWEY. Taking it on the whole, I presume it would be 75 or 80 per cent of the value.

Mr. GARDNER. It is high enough at that rate, I should think. What is your indebtedness?

Mr. DEWEY. The net debt, including public utilities, is $600,000.

Mr. MAGRATH. What do your public utilities cover?

Mr. DEWEY. Electricity, gas, and water.

Mr. POWELL. Is there any surplus from the supply of electricity, gas, and water?

Mr. DEWEY. There is a slight surplus over the operating charges and the amount necessary to take care of the debt.

Mr. GARDNER. How are you paying that? Is it by a sinking fund?

Mr. DEWEY. Some of it. Some of it is payable in annual installments. We issue debentures both ways.

Mr. POWELL. Is your debt diminishing or increasing?

Mr. DEWEY. I think it is diminishing. Our local improvement debt constitutes the bulk of the debt.

Mr. POWELL. And these public utilities carry themselves?

Mr. DEWEY. Yes. The local improvement indebtedness is paid largely by the property owners.

Mr. MAGRATH. It might be well to state for the information of those gentlemen who have come here from a distance that we are to hear this afternoon Mr. Paterson, an expert in the matter, in reference to methods of treating pollution. It might be interesting to these gentlemen to stay here to hear Mr. Paterson.

Mr. POWELL. It may interest these gentlemen, because Mr. Paterson claims that the municipalities could make a large profit out of the treatment of this sewage.

Mr. GARDNER. You would be able to pay off your indebtedness, perhaps, if you took Mr. Paterson’s advice.

(The commission took recess for luncheon.

After the luncheon recess.)

STATEMENT OF MR. EDWARD A. PATERSON.

EDWARD A. PATERSON, chemical engineer, London, England, appeared before the commission and said:

After I received the telegram from the secretary of the Canadian section of the commission asking me to come here I cabled to London for certain plans and models and additional samples, as I only had a few samples on this side and a few notes. These samples and reports have not yet got here, I suppose owing to the war conditions. I therefore have to rely upon rough laboratory notes, which I hope to augment with further information as soon as the data arrive here. I hope you will excuse me for not having the short report which I have made in fuller detail. I shall be glad to give you more interesting information later.

I may state, first, that my remarks are purely from the British point of view; I am not at all familiar with the conditions on this side, except as to a few of the plants, such as the Baltimore plant and others, where they have erected up-to-date plants for the collection of the solids. I have been investigating this matter for about six years purely from the point of view of the disposal of the solids, and I have looked upon it from the utilization point of converting waste products into a commercial enterprise. Our difficulty in Great Britain is that we have an enormous accumulation of what we call sludge cake or sewage cake, which comes mostly from the filter press, and in some cases it is taken out to sea and in others it is disposed of on the land and in other cases they burn it. In England alone we have enormous quantities of this material, which costs from 1 shilling to 5 shillings--that is, from 25 cents to $1.25--per ton of wet sludge. When I refer to “wet sludge,” I mean sludge that contains from 50 to 60 per cent of water.