Investigation of Communist Activities in Seattle, Wash., Area, Hearings, Part 1

Chapter VIII: Part 8

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Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr. MOULDER. You are advised and directed to answer the question.

(There was no response.)

Mr. TAVENNER. When did you become a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. CARLSON. The answer is the same as the one previous.

Mr. MOULDER. Again the Chair advises and directs you to answer the question.

(There was no response.)

Mr. TAVENNER. What methods were used by the Communist Party in order to induce you to become a member?

Mr. CARLSON. I again invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr. MOULDER. You are advised and directed to answer the question.

(There was no response.)

Mr. TAVENNER. You have told the committee that you withdrew from the Communist Party in 1949. What were the circumstances which led you to the decision to withdraw from the Communist Party?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I believe, Mr. Chairman, the immediate thing was the outbreak of the Korean war.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, just how the outbreak of the Korean war affected you in your decision?

Mr. CARLSON. My opinion, Mr. Chairman, was that that war was uncalled for. I didn’t agree with it, no more than I agreed with our participation in it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean to say that the Communist Party was in favor of the war, and, therefore, inasmuch as you disagreed with it, you got out of the Communist Party?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I was against the invasion by the North Koreans of South Korea. That is my position. I didn’t approve of that at all. In fact, I don’t approve of war really of any kind.

Mr. TAVENNER. I misunderstood your answer entirely.

You believed that the North Koreans invaded South Korea?

Are you assigning the Korean war as your reason for getting out of the Communist Party? What I am getting at is: What was the Communist Party doing about the Korean war with which you disagreed? That is the point I am trying to develop. (The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I am not really in a position, I don’t think, to say what the Communist Party did about that. Officially. There was a period of time when I suppose I was--Well, I don’t know what word to use--probably losing faith, or disagreeing, or something with the activities. And that was the real change in my mind. That was the thing, the straw that broke the camel’s back, you might say.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean the Korean war?

Mr. CARLSON. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the Communist Party doing about the Korean war that made this matter so important it affected your decision about breaking your connection with the party?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. My decision was made right then in my own mind when that war broke out.

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not talking about the time; I am talking about what the Communist Party did to create such a situation which prevented you from continuing as a member of the Communist Party.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. My impression was that they favored the North Koreans, and I didn’t.

Mr. TAVENNER. How did the Communist Party handle that question in its meetings?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. TAVENNER. Now actually the Korean war began in June 1950, didn’t it?

Mr. CARLSON. As near as my recollection, I was thinking it was 1949.

Mr. TAVENNER. And you say you withdrew from the Communist Party in 1949?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I am sure in my mind that it was in the fall of 1949 that I failed to reregister in the Communist Party.

Mr. TAVENNER. But the only reason you have assigned for your withdrawal from the Communist Party in 1949 is the Korean war, which did not begin until nearly a year later.

Now it is rather difficult for the committee, I am sure, to understand whether or not your reasons for withdrawing from the Communist Party are being given in good faith.

Mr. CARLSON. Mr. Chairman, I was quite active in my union and in my shop as a good trade union member, and, to tie one thing with another, I don’t have anything to go by except that Korean war. I remember that was about the time.

Mr. TAVENNER. Then you must have been mistaken as to the year in which you withdrew from the Communist Party.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. That is possible.

Mr. TAVENNER. I would much rather believe that you were mistaken than believe you are trying to deceive the committee.

Mr. CARLSON. No. That is not the case.

Mr. TAVENNER. The committee has been interested for quite a period of time in learning all it can about the method used by the Communist Party to oppose the Korean war. By opposing the Korean war I mean opposing the foreign policy of the United States in connection with that war. What position did the Communist Party take with which you disagreed?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I think it is quite common knowledge that, even from our daily papers, the Communists did support the North Koreans.

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; but the daily papers do not tell us what was done in your particular cell or group of the Communist Party, and that is what we want to know.

Mr. CARLSON. Well, after that war broke out, Mr. Chairman, I did not participate. I can’t tell what they done because I don’t know.

Mr. TAVENNER. Then why did you disagree with them if you didn’t know what they were doing?

Mr. CARLSON. Well, you remember, as history shows--according to the papers, anyway--that in the time before the First World War broke out, I remember--it just comes to my mind--the papers printed that the Communist Party members of France tore up their Communist cards immediately when Russia signed some sort of a pact with Germany. You probably recall that in your own mind. I think that is a historical fact. At least the paper files will show that. I recall it that way. Now the same situation was mine, although I might add, as I have said before, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back as far as I am concerned.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend any meeting of the Communist Party after you wrote the letter on June 19, 1954, to this committee?

(The witness confers with his counsel).

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend any meeting of the Communist Party after the outbreak of the Korean War?

Mr. CARLSON. Not to the best of my recollection; I don’t believe so.

Mr. TAVENNER. I understand you will not tell this committee anything about the activities of the Communist Party during the period when you were a member. Is that correct?

Mr. CARLSON. Because the answer to those questions might tend to incriminate me, and, on advise of my counsel, I refuse to answer those questions.

Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions.

Mr. MOULDER. Any questions?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Since the witness is unwilling to give us any of the information which we are certain he has regarding his activities in the Communist Party while he was a member, possibly he would tell us what motivated him to get into the Communist Party, to join the Communist Party in the first place.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. Could I answer that question, Mr. Congressman, and not go into other questions regarding it?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, certainly. I would like to have you answer.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. I was looking for an answer to the problems that beset many, many workers besides myself. And I really had a rough time during the depression.

Mr. VELDE. Did you join the party, then, during the depression?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. CARLSON. My understanding was that if I answered the previous question there would not be any more regarding that.

Mr. VELDE. I did not understand it that way at all. I am sorry if you misinterpreted my question. And I don’t mean to treat you unfairly in any way or try to trap you. It seems to me that if anybody is being trapped you are being trapped by your own unwillingness to answer questions that are put to you about your activities in the Communist Party. I think, Mr. Chairman, the record should show during the course of the examination by Mr. Tavenner and by you that the witness has been conferring with his counsel regarding the answers to the questions.

Mr. MOULDER. The record will reflect conferences with counsel in that regard.

Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions.

Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.

At this time the committee will read a letter which was just received, addressed to myself as chairman. The letter is from the Musicians’ Association of Seattle, Local 76, A. F. of M.

DEAR SIR: I am distressed to learn that our member, Mrs.
Helen Taverniti, has not made herself available for service of the
subpena from the House Un-American Activities Committee.

I wish to point out that since 1940 the American Federation
of Musicians has persistently carried on a sustained effort
to remove from our membership persons proven to be affiliated
with organizations of a subversive nature. In fact, our bylaws
specifically provide that membership in the Communist Party or any
Communist “front” organization is cause for immediate expulsion
from membership.

The executive board of local 76 has deemed it necessary to send
a registered letter to Mrs. Helen Taverniti at her last known
address, citing her to appear before the board for interrogation
relative to this matter.

Very truly yours,

LESLIE R. MARTIN, _President_.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Margaret Elizabeth Gustafson.

Will you come forward, please.

Mr. MOULDER. Hold up your right hand and be sworn, please.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I do.

Mr. MOULDER. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF MARGARET ELIZABETH GUSTAFSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you state your name please?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Margaret Elizabeth Gustafson.

Mr. TAVENNER. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.

Will counsel please identify himself for the record?

Mr. MACDONALD. Kenneth A. MacDonald, a lawyer of the city of Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mrs. Gustafson?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I was born February 9, 1912, in the city of Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you spell your last name, please?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. G-u-s-t-a-f-s-o-n.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. In Bremerton, Wash.

Mr. TAVENNER. How are you employed?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. As a schoolteacher.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your formal educational training has been?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I graduated from San Diego State College in 1933, attended Mills for graduate work the following year. I have had summer school at the Western Washington College of Education, at the University of Washington, extension courses----

NORTHWEST LABOR SCHOOL
309 2nd Avenue No.

POSTMASTER: If undeliverable for any reason,
notify sender on Form 3547, postage for which
is guaranteed.

Saturday, April 5th

THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST
LABOR SCHOOL

Holds

OPEN HOUSE

DANCE--REFRESHMENTS--FUN TO START THE SPRING TERM

VACATION TIME
JUNE 28-JULY 19

Spend your vacation at the Labor School Summer Camp--swim,
fish, rest, play--and learn.

LAKE HATZIC
BRITISH COLUMBIA

Sponsored jointly by the Northwest Labor School and the
British Columbia Workers Education Association. Inexpensive
facilities for youngsters (even babies)--lots of fun
for a week or more of vacation. Get full information and
application blanks at the Labor School office.

PACIFIC
NORTHWEST
LABOR
SCHOOL

SPRING 1947
309 2nd Avenue North in Seattle

MAKE SUNDAY NIGHT

FORUM
NIGHT

7:00 P. M.
Beginning March 23, 1947

Every Sunday a Forum on an issue of current and
vital importance to labor and the Seattle community.
We will tackle the most important developments
on the local, national and international scene.
Make the FORUM a weekly habit.

ADMISSION FREE

SEATTLE LABOR FORUM
309-2nd Ave. N.
]

=YOUTH CANTEEN=--Cyril Gius--Once month--(April 11, May 9 and
June 6)--with music, entertainment, and food arranged under mature
supervision, by and for youth.

=JUNIOR TOWN HALL=--Cyril Gius--A monthly lively and
stimulating discussion on questions of the day of particular
interest to youth. Fridays--April 25, May 23, and June 20.

$1.50 for the six sessions or 35c a session.

=CHILDREN’S WORKSHOP=--Ruth Bitterman--assisted by Celeste
Brooks and Martha Smyser. Saturday, 10 a. m.-12 noon. Ages 6-12.

A workshop for children 6-12, encouraging their natural desire to create, to help them find and express the beauty and color in their everyday life, using simple art skills, and to help them to be cooperative individuals in their group.

Fee: $3.00

WHO RUNS YOUR SCHOOL?

BOARD OF DIRECTORS: This is the governing body of the School and its decisions are binding upon the school in matters of organization and policy. It is comprised of trade union members and representatives of the city at large, elected on the following basis: Trade unions affiliating to the school through payment of an affiliation fee elect one member to the Board. Trade union councils endorsing the school also elect one member to the Board. These elect additional members from the city at large up to one third of their number. Thus, the Board of Directors, always representative of labor, also includes people who can bring broad educational experience to the school.

Our aim to do what YOU want done. In addition to classes and activities in the center, we will come to you. Does your union need a special course to help in building the union, in developing new forces? Are there fifteen people in your neighborhood who want some special class? Do you need help in planning parties, song-fests, shows, meetings--the Public Affairs Dept. is organized to help you. Give us a call and we’ll work out what you need.

PACIFIC NORTHWEST LABOR SCHOOL
309-2nd Avenue North
GArfield 5404

SPRING TERM
opens
Week of April 7, 1947

I want to enroll in the NORTHWEST LABOR SCHOOL in (please print plainly)

CLASS...................... No..... Day......

Enclosed find $....... for my registration fee.

NAME...........................................

ADDRESS..................... PHONE.............

UNION..........................................

AFFILIATED ORGANIZATIONS

(Members of the following organizations and their Auxiliaries may attend at the reduced fee.)

Aeronautical Industrial District Lodge No. 751
American Communications Association, Local 130
American Communications Association--Regional Office
American Veterans Committee--Queen Anne Chapter
Building Service Employees International Union No. 6
Cannery Workers and Farm laborers Union--F.T.A. No. 7
International Association of Machinists No. 79
International Ladies’ Garment Workers Union No. 184
International Longshoremen’s and Warehousemen’s Union Nos 1-9
International Molders & Foundry Workers No. 158
Luggage Workers Union No. 51
Marine Cooks and Stewards Association
National Maritime Union of America
National Negro Congress
Painters Local Union, No. 300
Shipscalers, Drydock and Boatyard Workers, No. 589
The New World
United Office and Professional Workers of America, No. 35
United Public Workers of America
Washington Pension Union
Window Cleaners Union, No. 23

FRATERNAL AFFILIATES

Northern Washington District Council, I.W.A.
Painters District Council No. 5
Seattle CIO Council
Washington State CIO Council

Spring is already with us, so sign up for the course that meets your needs NOW! The tuition fee for a single course is $6.00 for 10 weeks. If your trade union or community organization is affiliated with the Northwest Labor School the fee is $3.00. It’s an investment that will pay off in new satisfactions and practical understanding. This is education to make democracy work.

SPRING TERM OPENS WEEK OF APRIL 7, 1947]

TRADE UNIONISM

=104--Union Meeting Procedure=

Monday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Herman Ott

How to organize and run a union meeting. Discuss and practice
rules of order; learn to exercise your rights in a union meeting.

=106--History of American Labor=

Friday, 1:00-3:00 P.M.
Friday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
John Deschbach

A background for understanding the labor problems of the present.
Deals with major developments in the labor movement, special
emphasis on events from World War I and on.

=108--Trade Union Organizational Problems

Wednesday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Harvey Jackins

Continuation of last term’s course, but open to new registrants.
Covering problems of organizing and operating a local union.

=109--Psychology for Unionists=

Wednesday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Dr. Ralph Gundlach

Problem of making a dues-payer into a union man. Psychological
approach to such topics as handling grievances, discrimination,
job evaluation and personnel management.

=110--Labor’s Experience in Political Action=

Friday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
H. Richard Seller
Thomas C. Rabbitt

Analysis of labor, success and failures in political action.
Includes practical information on government and how labor can use
its strength to safeguard democracy.

=115--Labor as Consumer=

Monday, 1:00-3:00 P.M.
Mary Salvus

How to buy, what to buy, and what not to buy. Provides “shopping
to save” techniques. Class members will cooperate in field work to
determine good and bad buys in the Seattle area.

=118--The Truth About Unions=

Thursday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Richard Berner

This course is for everyone--but especially for rank and filers
who want correct answers on the structure and role of the unions.
Here is an opportunity for those outside of organized labor to
deal with the facts--rather than the fictions which circulate
about unions.

=120--Labor News Reporting=

Monday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Terry Pettus
H. Richard Seller

A course for beginners as well as those with some experience in
the technique of news reporting for the labor press, with special
emphasis on learning-by-doing. It will deal with techniques of
journalism and the reporting of news, not views.

SOCIAL SCIENCES

=204--Facts Behind the News=

Thursday. 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Albert M. Ottenheimer

A critical discussion of the news behind the headlines. Analysis
of fast moving events in national and international affairs.

=205--Science and the Problems of Race=

Tuesday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Dorothy Anderson

Will help supply scientific understanding of backgrounds and
contributions of various peoples. Deals with the origin of racial
and religious prejudices, and gives facts to combat them.

=209--Child Psychology=

Tuesday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Dr. Sylvia Mac Coll

The job of being a mother--with practical application to
everyday problems in rearing healthy, normal children and to the
establishment of healthy parent-child relationships.

=210--Science of Society=

Monday, 1:00-3:00 P.M.
Monday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Bert MacLeech

A scientific analysis of the basic forces at work in the world
today. Covers a study of the origin and development of capitalism,
the rise of modern imperialism and theory and practice of
socialism.

=214--World Politics=

Friday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
John Deschbach

This course deals with the major trends in international
relations, with special attention to relations between Britain,
the Soviet Union, and the United States.

=215--Development of Socialist Thought II=

Wednesday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Bert MacLeech

Course continues the winter’s study, but is open to new
registrants. Covers major developments of Socialist thought since
the turn of the 20th Century.

=216--Political Economy I=

Monday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Harry Fugl

Course deals with basic laws of capitalistic economy. Analyzes
relationships of value and price, wages and profits; special
emphasis on the role of organized labor’s effect on these
relationships.

=217--Political Economy II=

Monday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Harry Fugl

Continuation of Political Economy I; a study of the basic laws of
capitalist economy.

=219--Problems Facing the Negro People=

Tuesday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Carl Brooks

Concerns present growing crisis in unemployment, housing, and
discrimination of the Negro peoples; and how to combat policies
which divide and weaken the community and country.

=220--What is Philosophy=

Thursday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Prof. H. J. Phillips

Treats philosophy in terms of its relation to the principal needs
and interests of men today. Get acquainted with some of the major
thinkers of the past and present.

SCHEDULE OF CLASSES--PACIFIC NORTHWEST LABOR SCHOOL

WORKSHOPS

=304--Swing Your Pardner=

Wednesday, 8:30-10:00 P.M.
Ruth MacLeech

The rollicking calls of folk and country dances--some with real
labor flavor--will mean real fun for you. So get your pardner--or
you’ll find one there--and join in. Individual sessions will be
open to all comers.

=312--Everyone Can Draw=

Tuesday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
John Davis

A class for everyone who wants to learn to draw or paint and enjoy
it. The course will cover the fundamentals of freehand drawing,
cartoons, designs, etc.

=315--Labor Sings=

Friday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Hazel Johnson
Helen Taverniti

If you can carry a tune, come and sing peoples songs--old and new.
You do not need to read music or have choral training. Learn songs
to use at union, club meetings.

=320--Recreation as Leadership=

Wednesday, 1:00-3:00 P.M.
Ruth MacLeech

How to plan and arrange recreation for children’s groups. A
workshop in simple uses of music, puppetry, crafts. Source
material available for planning programs around these skills.

=321--Recreation as Union Leadership=

Wednesday, 6:45-8:15 P.M.
Ruth MacLeech

How recreation can be used to activate the union membership.
Deals especially with simple uses of music, crafts and other
recreational techniques. Source material available for unionists
planning activities in these fields.

=322--Craft Workshop=

Thursday, 10:00 A.M.-12:00 P.M.
Trudi Hirshman

Simple projects for the home and trade union hall, using
inexpensive and salvage materials. A chance to learn new skills
and satisfactions while producing what interests you.

=Meet and Eat Club (No Fee Charged)=

Thursday, Noon to 2:00 P.M.
Edith Coley

Bring a bag lunch and enjoy two hours gaining latest information
on Child Development, Home Management, Health and Family
Relations. Speakers, specialists in their fields, and films
featured. Coffee will be furnished. Child care will be provided.
No fee charged.

See Other Side for Announcements on Children and Youth Work.

NOTE: REGISTRATION IS OPEN NOW FOR CLASSES

BEGINNING APRIL 7, 1947

* * * * *

Mr. TAVENNER. When were you at the University of Washington?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. 1940, the summer session.

Mr. TAVENNER. I interrupted you. You were in the course of giving some further extension work.

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I have had extension courses; I just finished one a few weeks ago.

Mr. TAVENNER. How have you been employed since 1940?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. In 1941 I taught kindergarten. Right after Pearl Harbor I went into the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. And when I left there I organized and supervised the war emergency nursery schools in Bremerton, the after-school-care program for the children of working mothers. Then I worked for the Kitsap County Welfare Department.

Mr. TAVENNER. When was that, please? Approximately.

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My first child was born in 1945. So it was the year of 1945, maybe the latter part of 1944. I don’t recall exactly.

Then in the fall of 1947 I went back to teaching in the Bremerton public schools, and have been there ever since.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Gustafson, do you have any knowledge of the operation of the Northwest Labor School in Seattle?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege granted me by the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States, which protects me from giving testimony which might incriminate me.

Mr. MOULDER. The question asked was: Do you possess any information or knowledge concerning the school referred to by counsel?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mr. MOULDER. He did not ask you for any specific information. He just asked you if you had such information, if you knew about the school. Do you refuse or decline to answer?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege of invoking the fifth amendment for the reasons given before.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend the Pacific Northwest Labor School at any time?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Quite apparently, Mr. Chairman, it would be a useless waste of time to ask any further questions regarding the operation of the school.

(The Spring 1947 Catalogue of the Pacific Northwest Labor School is hereby made a part of the transcript, and appears herewith.)

Mr. TAVENNER. During the period of time that you have been engaged in teaching have you been a member of the American Federation of Teachers unions?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mr. TAVENNER. And I should add, for your information, that the American Federation of Teachers unions has never been cited as a communist front organization.

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes; I have been.

Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time have you been a member?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Off and on since I became eligible in 1937, whenever I was in the public schools.

Mr. TAVENNER. The investigation which this committee has conducted within the past few years has developed information in several different parts of the country, and I refer particularly to New York, to Harvard University, to the general area of Los Angeles, and, I believe, also in Michigan, that the Communist Party made a very strong effort to get in a position to control the activities of the teachers unions affiliated with the American Federation of Teachers. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not the Communist Party made an effort to infiltrate the American Federation of Teachers union here?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mr. TAVENNER. I think I should say, and it may be of some help to you in answering the question, that I have no information of any Communist Party activities within the American Federation of Teachers union here. But I want to know whether there were.

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My counsel advises me that I must say “No.” I am sorry but I have to answer.

Mr. TAVENNER. And what is your answer?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My answer is “No.”

Mr. TAVENNER. That you do not have any such knowledge?

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Absolutely not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you held any office or position in the American Federation of Teachers unions?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes. I held the office of treasurer.

Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I think it was a portion of 1948 and a good share of 1949.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during the years 1948 and 1949?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No; I was not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time while you were a member of the American Federation of Teachers unions?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1947?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution, for the reasons previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. According to your testimony, you were at the University of Washington for 1 year in 1940.

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I beg your pardon. That was the summer session.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at that time?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment for the reasons previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were Communist Party meetings held at any time in your home during the year 1947?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you at any time a member of the Victory Club of the Communist Party in Bremerton?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke, for the reasons previously given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as the witness refuses to answer as to the period 1940-47, it is hardly necessary to ask any further questions. So that is all I have.

Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Velde?

Mr. VELDE. Do you intend to invoke the fifth amendment on any question we might ask you touching upon your activities as a member of the Communist Party?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds previously given.

Mr. VELDE. It is obvious to me that we cannot get any information whatsoever from this witness. So I have nothing further to ask.

Mr. MOULDER. Would you answer a question concerning any information or knowledge you may have of Communist Party or subversive activities in which you yourself were in no way whatsoever personally connected? If you had such knowledge and information, would you answer the question concerning such information or knowledge?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given.

Mr. MOULDER. I want to make myself clear, that I am not proposing to ask you questions concerning any matter or any fact which would tend to incriminate you personally.

I say would you answer any question concerning any fact or information you may have concerning subversive, communistic, or un-American activities which you yourself were not related to, but which you have knowledge of concerning someone else. Would you answer such a question?

(The witness confers with her counsel.)

Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, sir, but I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr. MOULDER. You are excused as a witness.

The committee will stand in recess until 1:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:03 p. m., the subcommittee was recessed, to be reconvened at 1:30 p. m., this same day. Remainder of this hearing is printed in pt. 2 of this series.)

FOOTNOTES:

[1] Also known as Rapport, Morris.

[Transcriber’s Note:

Page 298, “_The First Objective was approached mainly from the class in Theory which dealt with 1. The Materialist Conception of History, 2. Dialectics, 2. Surplus Value, 3. The Class Struggle, 4. Orientation in Organization, 5. Proletarian, 6. Discipline as Social Control._” changed to read: “_The First Objective was approached mainly from the class in Theory which dealt with 1. The Materialist Conception of History, 2. Dialectics, 3. Surplus Value, 4. The Class Struggle, 5. Orientation in Organization, 6. Proletarian, 7. Discipline as Social Control._”

Obvious printer errors corrected silently.

Inconsistent spelling and hyphenation are as in the original.]

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Investigation of Communist Activities in Seattle, Wash., Area, Hearings, Part 1Chapter VIII: Part 8

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