Chapter IV: Part 4

We call a meeting of this kind accidental, and it was truly so, in the common sense of the term. But the Christian looks higher, and finds the directing hand of God in such matters. What adds to the interest of this circumstance is, that besides the person mentioned, there is not an individual in England who understands a word of the language referred to.

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_Lima, 1st December, 1823._

I mentioned to you in my last, that Bolivar had safely arrived in this city. Some days after his arrival, I was introduced to him, and was very favourably received. He is, in appearance, a very modest unassuming man, as far as I can judge from the short conversation we had together. He appears very active and intelligent, but I could not read any thing of an extraordinary nature in his countenance. He has not the eye of San Martin, whose glance would pierce you through in a moment. Bolivar’s weather-beaten face tells you that he has not been idle. No man, I believe, has borne so much of the burden, or has toiled so hard in the heat of the day, in the cause of South American Independence, as Bolivar. His labours in his own country are already crowned with nearly complete success; Colombia may be considered free and independent. According to all the accounts which reach us, the Congress of that country is going on with great steadiness. The following, I conceive, is a very pleasing trait in Bolivar’s character. When invited to come here, he replied, that he would very gladly come without a moment’s delay, but that he could not allow himself to obey his feelings in the matter, as an article of the constitution of Colombia prohibits the President from going out of the state without leave from the Congress. From this circumstance, he said, and from a desire to give an example of subjection to the laws, he could not come until he should obtain leave. He accordingly wrote to the Congress for permission, and although, from the distance of the capital, he was long in receiving an answer, and in the interval was urgently solicited from this quarter, yet he remained in Guayaquil until the permission from the Congress came, and immediately after sailed for this place. Since his arrival here, he has been chiefly occupied in military occupations, and in endeavouring to make an accommodation between the Congress and Riva Aguera. Every thing has been done by him in this matter, and I am sorry to say without effect. The last remedy only remains, and it has been resorted to; Bolivar in person and 6,000 men have gone against him. I am told he is pretty confident of reducing him in a very short time, and that he expects to return in three or four weeks.

Lima is no longer that city of wealth it formerly was. The number of people who have been reduced from tolerably comfortable circumstances to poverty, is not a few. The affairs of our school suffer greatly from the present state of this place. The Government is very friendly towards us, and very desirous of giving us succour, but they cannot do all they wish, as this war rivets the attention of all, and devours all the resources. But the Lord reigneth, and all shall yet be well.

The Congress has, for some months past, been busily occupied in framing a constitution for Peru, and which they have now brought to a close. A few days ago it was published, and it has since been sworn to with great formality by the members of Congress, the Members of Government, and other public functionaries. It is very probable that this constitution will be translated into English, and published in London. You will, in that case, have an opportunity of seeing it, and of forming your opinion regarding its merits. When you have passed your judgment upon it, I shall be obliged to you to state particularly what that judgment is, in order that I may inform my friends here of the result. In this manner you may perhaps contribute to its improvement afterwards, as the opinions of foreigners upon the subject will, I am persuaded, have some weight. To find a perfect constitution would be as difficult, perhaps, as to find a perfect man. The political constitutions of most countries might be altered for the better, I believe, especially on your side of the world. There is certainly a striking difference between the old world and the new in reference to these matters. You Europeans, generally speaking, may be compared to an old man, whose evil habits have grown up with him from the days of his ignorance and foolishness, but which he either cannot see, or seeing, is unwilling to correct. If you point out these to him, he gets impatient and angry, and then draws his sword, by dint of which he convinces you that he is in the right. We, on the other hand, who live in a new world, have new ideas, and, I may add, true ideas, upon these subjects. America may be compared to a young man just come of age, and inexperienced, but who is endeavouring to learn wisdom from seeing the stubbornness of old age on the one hand, and from the true principles of philosophy on the other. We are not fettered down by old habits, and we are endeavouring therefore, and I think with some success to look upon the subject of government philosophically, and as free as may be from the influence of prejudice. The single object, I believe, of the rising states of South America is the forming such laws or constitutions as may truly secure the liberty and protection of every member of the political body, to the greatest degree possible. Political codes have been drawn up with this view, and all of them, I believe, have an article of great importance, namely, that the constitution shall be revised and improved from time to time, in order that it may move on towards perfection, as science and wisdom increase in the world. You will be saying to yourself, perhaps, that I am too favourable to my new friends, and you will be ready to produce against me the article upon religion as found in most of the constitutions of this southern continent. You are likely, I believe, to form an improper judgment of this country in reference to that article. You may be sure I feel the want upon this matter more than you do, but I endeavour to look upon the subject with as little prejudice as possible. When toleration was obtained in England, it was wrung from the government, I may say, by main force. The safety of the state demanded it, and this I suppose had more weight in obtaining for us this precious blessing, than any qualms of conscience or political wisdom. Things are quite different here. There is nobody, I may say, who needs toleration, and of course nobody is asking it for himself. I speak of the inhabitants of America, exclusive of the few foreigners who reside in it. One of the members of Congress, at the time of discussing this subject, very pertinently said, “Why such ado about toleration? Who is asking for it? or who stands in need of it? We, ourselves, do not need any such thing, and foreigners, who are here, seem very little concerned about the subject. It was not religion that brought them to this country, but commerce. Give them money, therefore, in exchange for their goods, and they will seek nothing else.” Now all this was very true, however unpalatable. Yet, notwithstanding the real state of the country in regard to the need of toleration, a very strong party exists in the Congress in favour of it; so strong indeed, that it was thought at one time that it would be gained; and when it was lost, a considerable number entered their protest upon the subject; the first of whom was an aged priest, and the head of the principal college in Lima. Now can you tell me when such things took place in any other country, and originating wholly from a philosophical view of the matter? Having seen these things take place, under my own eye, and having conversed with several members of Congress and others upon the subject, I feel confident in stating, that liberal views upon it are pretty general, at least in this city, and I believe that this evil will be removed from the Constitution ere long, perhaps at the first revival of it.

P.S.—Riva Aguera and his friends, are now prisoners, and his troops have returned to their duty.

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_Lima, 1st March, 1824._

I stated to you, some time ago, my expectation of being able to introduce the New Testament undisguised into our school. Blessed be God, that object is now accomplished. I have sold several copies to the children publicly in the school. In the usual course of our lessons, we have occasion to speak of several incidents in the Gospel history. On these occasions, I desire our pupils, particularly on Saturdays, to find out in their New Testaments where such a thing is spoken of, giving them certain limits. On the Monday following, a number are well prepared with their New Testaments marked with slips of paper at the places in question, and often through their pretty impatience to communicate their discoveries, they tell me before we get into the school, that they have found out the parable of the sower, the conversion of Paul, &c. You may easily imagine that these circumstances are great sources of enjoyment to me, and make up for many disadvantages. I have said that we have got the New Testament introduced into our school _undisguised_. You probably perceive what I mean by using the word undisguised. The truth is, the New Testament, in one sense, has all along been used in our schools in South America, not however in the open manner we now use it in Lima, but, as I may say, disguised; that is, we have used for lessons extracts from it, printed on large sheets, and in little books, thus introducing the Scriptures as it were by stealth. Each part of these lessons I cause to be read repeatedly in the classes, until the children can read them readily. By the time they can do so, the substance of what they have read, and the instruction contained in it, is tolerably imprinted on the memory. Children, you know, have a habit of repeating to themselves what they have been saying or reading frequently. In consequence of this, what portions of Scripture they have read in the school, they repeat in this way at home. My excellent friend and companion, the clergyman, already well known to you, informs me that several of the parents of our scholars tell him that their children are talking about the Gospel at home all the day long. From other quarters I have heard the same thing, and always with satisfaction expressed on the part of the parents. Some of the elder boys, at times, have requested me to lend them the little books of Scripture extracts, that they might read them at home; and sometimes the request is, “My mother desired me to ask you for one of the little books, as she wishes to read it.” These requests have been listened to with satisfaction, and you may be sure, complied with. Seeing this good disposition in regard to this matter, and considering the advantages which might flow from this silent unpresuming introduction of the Holy Scriptures, I intimated to the children that the little books would be sold to them at a small expense, and the consequence was, that many of them were bought immediately. I mentioned to my clerical friend what I had done, and my motive for doing it, namely, that the children and the parents might be improved. He replied, the books must prove useful to both parents and children, as what they contain is _the word of God_.

You will, perhaps, think I am lengthening out this subject too much, in talking of our school affairs. It is a subject, however, of some interest, considering where our school is, and I am persuaded you will look upon it as such. I shall, therefore, proceed a little farther, even at the risk of being tedious. We have, at certain times, an exercise for the more advanced boys, which I conceive to be very useful, and in which they take a great deal of interest. A Scripture narrative, or parable, is proposed, which they are required to read over, by themselves, with great attention, and to note in their memory all the circumstances and instruction contained in it. Thus prepared, as many as _choose_ to exhibit, sit down on a form by themselves, and one after another stands forward, without book, and delivers the parable or narrative, not in the very words of the text, but giving all the circumstances of the parable in their own artless way. It is pleasing, and not uninstructive, to hear them go over their exercise in this manner. Instead, for instance, of saying that the servant in Matthew, chap. 18, owed his Lord ten thousand talents, one will say, he owed him a thousand dollars, another, perhaps, will say a hundred dollars; whilst, on the other hand, they will say that the one servant owed the other “_unos pocos cuartillitos_,” or, as we would say in English, a few halfpence. By this way of saying it, they get into the sense of the passage themselves, and it is thus also brought down to the level of the understandings of their younger companions, all of whom are listening, whilst the attention of many is rivetted. One of the boys the other day, in noticing the concluding verse of the 18th of Matthew, made a very beautiful allusion to the corresponding petition in the Lord’s Prayer, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others. A premium of two rials (equal to a shilling) was awarded to the boy who delivered his parable in the best manner. Several times this reward was proposed and given. One day they asked me what parable we should have. I told them I was not sure that we should have any at all that day, because money was very scarce with us, and I did not know if we could spare two rials. But, said they, we may say the parable, although there be no premium. You take a pleasure then, said I, in this exercise, do you, independently of the premium? Yes, said they, with one accord. Well, I continued, it gives me great pleasure to see you take so much interest in this matter, and I can assure you, it is a very useful exercise, as well as a pleasing one.

I now go on to notice what has occurred here since my last, in reference to supplies of the Holy Scriptures, and their distribution. I stated to you formerly, that we were entirely without a supply of the Spanish _Bible_ here, and that we had but a few New Testaments. In hopes of obtaining some Bibles which were much sought after, I wrote to a gentleman in Valparaiso, to whom some Bibles and Testaments had been consigned some time before by the British and Foreign Bible Society, with an intimation that they should be at my disposal, if I wished for them. On learning this, I immediately wrote to Valparaiso upon the subject, requesting the whole to be sent me without delay. After more than the time necessary for their arrival had passed by without their appearing, I wrote a second time, making the same request. I received an answer to my second letter, as it seems the first had miscarried, but I was sorry to learn that the Bibles were all gone. When I say I am sorry for this, I speak rather in reference to the supplying of this place, than in reference to the grand object of distributing the Scriptures in South America. These Bibles, to the amount of 200, were all distributed, and mostly by sale, in Valparaiso, so that, if I am sorry in not being able to supply those who want here, I am, on the other hand, glad that my friends in Chile have obtained so many copies of the sacred word in their own tongue.

After the accounts which I have now given you, which are of an encouraging nature, I am sorry in being under the necessity of giving a gloomy close to my letter. The Spanish army entered this city yesterday. I feel as if I were no longer in South America, but as _transported_ to Spain; and as one in the visions of the night, finds himself in foreign climes, he knows not how, and sighs to return home, so do I sigh to return to South America. My next letter may, perhaps, inform you, that our school has been shut up, and that I have taken my departure for—heaven knows where. There, however, I shall be, as now, affectionately yours.

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_Lima, 3d March, 1824._

Soon after the arrival of the Bibles here, there were many observations made regarding the faithfulness of this reprint from the Madrid edition; and many observations were made also as to the reading the Scriptures without notes, for the Spanish Bible had never been seen before without these in this country. On one of these occasions, in the street one day, when a priest was speaking freely to some people about him against reading the Scriptures without the notes, a friar came up and joined them; and, hearing the observations of the other against reading, the Bible without notes, he took up the other side of the question, and by strong arguments and some wit, he put his adversary to shame, and convinced those who were present that it was the best and most natural way to read the divine instructions just as they proceeded out of the mouth of him who spoke as never man spoke, and just as they flowed from the pens of the inspired messengers.

I have very great satisfaction in stating, that many of the clergy in this place encourage the reading of the word of God. This is a cheering circumstance, and affords good grounds to expect a large diffusion of divine knowledge; for the word of God cannot return unto him void, but will accomplish his gracious will in the instruction and salvation of mankind wherever it is read. I have leaned this friendly disposition of the clergy upon this subject more particularly, since I set agoing the translation of the New Testament into the Quichua language, as mentioned in my last. All with whom I have talked upon this subject, both clergy and laity, are pleased with the object, and I have not yet heard of any one condemning the doing of it.

I spoke to a canon, in this place, some time ago upon the subject, and he voluntarily offered to correct the proof-sheets in passing through the press, if I should be at any loss for one to do it. Blessed be God for this encouragement. May he carry on and prosper this work, and make it a blessing unto thousands. In about three months, or less, I expect the whole of the New Testament will be translated into the Peruvian tongue. The revision also is going forward, and from the character and qualifications of those who are revising it, I trust the translation will be very faithful, and at the same time adapted to the capacities of the poor, to whom, in an especial manner, the gospel is preached.

You will observe by my former letter, that besides the Quichua, there are two other languages spoken in Peru, into which it would be desirable to get a part or the whole of the New Testament translated. I mentioned to you my application to the British and Foreign Bible Society for means to carry forward these translations. I also hinted that this is properly an _American_ work, and that it would not be unnatural to look for some assistance in it to the American Bible Society. Will you therefore have the goodness to lay this matter before the board of managers, and request them to favour me with a communication upon the subject, as early as convenience will permit. The object is, to translate the whole Scriptures into the Quichua language, spoken by upwards of a million, and also into the Aimará and Moxa languages, spoken each by upwards of two hundred thousand souls. I add no more upon this subject for the present, but at the same time, think it not improper to hint, that I shall probably have another claim upon your liberality, in regard to the native languages of Mexico. This claim may come before you perhaps some twelve months hence, should our heavenly Father be pleased to uphold me so long.

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_Lima, 25th March, 1824._

My last letter to Mr. S. closed with a foreboding in regard to our concerns here, from the circumstance of the Spanish army having entered this city. On the 29th of February, the Spanish troops, to the amount of about 2,500, took quiet possession of this place, there being not the smallest opposition. The patriot troop had retired a few days before, leaving us altogether unprotected, and exposed to those depredations which never fail to take place in a large city where there is no government to restrain. We were, in fact, in a very unpleasant state for some days, and the first sound of martial music from the Spanish army filled me with thanksgiving, as a deliverance from the anarchy and confusion we had lived in for some time.

A few days after the arrival of the Spanish army, and as soon as things were a little tranquillized, I wrote to the Spanish General, in reference to our school, telling him what we had done, and the state in which we were at the time. I represented to him the nature of our schools, and stated that establishments of a similar kind had been introduced and encouraged in various parts of the world. I of course mentioned particularly what had been done in Spain. After stating these things, I requested him to inform me whether we should go on, or whether we should immediately shut up our school. In answer to this, I received from him a very polite letter, saying, that he was informed and fully persuaded that the school under my direction was a very useful establishment, and that he wished it to go on until the Viceroy should communicate his mind upon the subject. In my letter to the General I inclosed a copy of a letter, which I intended to forward to the Viceroy, and requested his opinion of the letter, and whether I should send it on to Cuzco. He replied, that he thought the letter was suitable, and that if I wished he would himself forward it to the Viceroy, in order that it might go with greater security. You may be sure, I thankfully accepted his offer, and sent him immediately my letter to forward. Next day I called on the General to thank him for his kindness in protecting our school, and in taking the trouble of forwarding my letter to the Viceroy. I was very kindly received by him, and encouraged to go on. Thus, you see we have a new instance of the gracious goodness of our God in giving me favour with the Governors of this quarter of the world, however much opposed to each other.

I informed you, I think, soon after my arrival in this place, that the government had ordered the college belonging to the Dominican Friars in this city to be put at my disposal, for the use of our school establishment. The removal of the Friars, and the giving up of the college, was accomplished without the smallest murmur, or at least audible murmur, on the part of the monks. This college is an extensive building, and very well adapted to the purposes of a central school. We have a large school room, which will hold very conveniently 300 children, and another large room connected with it, which would contain 200 more. We have also several other rooms, very suitable as lodgings for the masters whilst studying the system, and there is convenience for a printing office, &c. &c. The apartments formerly occupied by the Rector of the college, have formed my own lodging the greater part of the time I have been in Lima. Besides the places now mentioned, which are all connected with each other, we have a large hall, finely adapted for a female school, with rooms for the mistress and her assistants. These are entirely separated from the parts mentioned before, so that though in the same building, they are quite distinct places, with separate entrances a gun-shot from each other. Our boys’ school contains, at the present time, 230 children, and we have often been talking of commencing a girls’ school as a thing greatly wanted in this place. But such has been the unhappy state of public affairs here for so long a time, that nothing has yet been done in it. From the description I have given you of the building we occupy, and the use to which it was formerly destined, you might naturally expect that the Friars gave it up reluctantly, though without complaining, and that they would still have their eye upon it, if a favourable opportunity should present itself for reclaiming it. I am told, that when the Spaniards were in possession of this city in June last, the Friars had resolved on petitioning the government upon the subject, but the short occupation of the city by the Spanish troops did not allow them to carry their purpose into effect. At the present time, the Spaniards seem to have taken a more permanent possession of the place, with the intention of continuing in it for some time, and their possessing the fortresses of Callao will enable them to do so. We were, therefore, in greater danger than ever of losing our college, and indeed application, as I am informed, was actually made to that effect to General Monet, the commander of the division in this quarter. But from what I have stated above, you will see the happy resolution of the General in our favour. I should have mentioned, when describing the college, that there is a church connected with it, as there is with all the colleges here. The church and the court connected with it, are separated by a wall from the parts formerly mentioned. They were formerly not entirely separated from each other, as there were two openings, like gate ways, between the two places. These, however, I caused to be built up, as I did not know what kind of companions I might have in the two Friars who were left to perform the service of the church; and from the character of some of this class, and the circumstance of the loss of their college, and its being put into the hands of a Protestant, I did not augur much good from their neighbourhood. We have, however, lived all along on good terms, and our longer acquaintance with each other has grown, I think, into friendship. I met with a proof of this friendship since the entrance of the Spaniards, which I did not expect. The Friar who has the principal charge called upon me one morning, and informed me that he had heard that the Conde de Villar de Fuente was to be appointed Governor of Lima. Now, says he, although he is a very good man, yet being very friendly to the Friars, it is very likely they will press him hard to regain their college. You should therefore, continued he, endeavour to see the Governor as early as possible, lest they get the start of you to your disadvantage. I thanked him very kindly for his intimation and for his advice, and told him that I was very happy in having this proof of our living in such friendship with each other. I called upon the Governor soon after his appointment, agreeably to the advice of my friend, and found him very well disposed to continue our establishment and to encourage it.

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_Lima, 29th March, 1824._

The Grecian which brought your letter of 24th April, and the cases of New Testaments therein mentioned, arrived at the port of Callao at a very unfavourable time. The garrison in the castles of that place had mutinied some ten days previous to her arrival, and every thing there was in confusion. The fortresses and town of Callao were in the hands of the Spaniards, whilst the patriots governed in Lima. Under these circumstances, I thought it most prudent not to land the New Testaments, but to wait some time to see what turn things would take, and for the same reason I deferred writing you. On the 29th ultimo, the Spaniards took possession of this city; they have continued here since, and seem likely to do so for some time. From various circumstances, we have been led to believe that the Spanish government will not allow those freedoms which the Patriot government allowed, in reference to the introduction of books, &c. In consequence of this, I still considered it hazardous to land the New Testaments, and therefore kept them on board so long as the Grecian continued here; and when she sailed for Chile, which she did a few days ago, I got them put on board his Majesty’s ship Fly, now lying in Callao. I shall thus keep them afloat until I see something like a certainty of landing them safely. What I have just said refers only to the 2,500 copies addressed to the care of Mr. Thwaites, as the rest which were addressed to Mr. Lynch have been carried back to Chile in the Grecian, and are to be delivered there according to instructions given. After being landed in Valparaiso, they will be forwarded to Santiago, the capital, and put into the hands of Mr. Christopher Collis for sale. I have offered the whole to Mr. Collis at 850 dollars, to be paid in one month after receiving them; or should he decline taking them at the rate mentioned, I have desired him to sell them on my account, charging the commission he usually takes. The price I have put upon the New Testaments, when sold one by one, is eight rials each, and when sold in quantities to sell again, at six rials each. This you see will about cover the original cost and expenses if the whole are taken by Mr. Collis, and if he retails them they will bring something more. I think this is a rule that should pretty generally be attended to, and as few as possible given gratis. What I have said, applies to these countries of South America, but other rules may be better elsewhere. I do think it injurious to make a general distribution gratis. Individual copies may be given in this way by a time, but it should be only at times, and when a clear case presents itself. The committee will correct me in this if I am wrong.

On the very day that I received the 610 New Testaments from Valparaiso, I received a letter from Truxillo begging most earnestly, and “for God’s sake” that I would send to that place without delay a supply of the Holy Scriptures. With the writer I am well acquainted, and we had many pleasing interviews during the few weeks I remained in that place, in June and July of last year. My friend and correspondent in Truxillo is a medical gentleman and a native of Ireland. He has been long in this quarter of the world, and may be considered rather as a South American, than a native of the British Isles. He is of the Roman Catholic religion, but is free from those prejudices to be found among many of his own communion. He studies the word of God himself, and recommends the study of it most earnestly to all his friends around him. I found him with a single Spanish New Testament of one of your earlier editions. This was to him quite a family piece, and his wife and children take great pleasure in reading it. A copy of the whole Bible in the Spanish language he had not been able to procure at that time, but in the letter referred to, he tells me he had obtained one from a friend who purchased it in Lima at the time of Mr. Lynch’s sale. When we were together in Truxillo, I inculcated upon him strongly the importance of doing every thing in his power to make the Word of God have free course and be glorified as far as in him lay. To this he most cheerfully agreed, and indeed was more ready to enter into it than I could be to lay it before him. He told me that he was personally acquainted with most of the rectors in the various districts throughout the extensive province of Truxillo, which contains a population of about 300,000 souls. To each of these rectors he promised to write upon the subject, and was pretty confident that they would, in answer to his letters, request large supplies of the Scriptures. I promised on my part to supply him amply with New Testaments very soon, and with Bibles as soon as I could have a supply from England. Upon my return to Lima, I sent him 50 Spanish New Testaments, some of the Annual Reports of the Society, some religious tracts, &c. These were sent under the particular care of a mutual friend, who sailed for Santa, and intended to send them overland to Truxillo. This happened to be at the time of one of our civil commotions, and when our friend landed at Santa all communication was interrupted between that and Truxillo. From Santa he sailed to Guayaquil, and not finding a convenient opportunity for sending them back to Truxillo, he sold them there, and wrote our friend to that effect, saying he would account to me for the price of them. This was a great disappointment to Mr. O’Donovan, for that is the name of our fellow-labourer; and to remedy it, he wrote me the letter above mentioned. He urges his claim from the circumstance of the great need there is of the Word of God in that quarter, from his having promised to send copies to his friends, the rectors, agreeably to what was before stated, and from the circumstance of a number of copies of two infidel books which had been just landed from a French ship in that place, and which have done much evil in these countries. Often do I think, my dear Sir, and often do I say, that this is a most critical time for South America, in a religious point of view.

Two days after having received his letter, I sent him off 250 copies, in common binding, and ten in calf extra. The patience, however, of our friend has again been put to the trial, for notwithstanding that the box containing this supply was sent down to Callao immediately, yet on account of the confusion in that place, as above mentioned, it only went off a few days ago. I imagine him just now opening it, and satiating his eyes with its sacred contents. In the conclusion of his letter, he says he intends to go from house to house to urge these “ignorant but docile Christians” to receive the treasure offered them. Let us pray that his benevolent and zealous efforts may be crowned with happy success.

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_Lima, 30th March, 1824._

We have at present three masters learning our system, and whom we expected to place in other schools before now; but this war literally devours up every thing, and ties us down to a spot. When we shall clap our wings and fly over the Andes, to teach the poor Peruvian in his native tongue, I cannot tell: God may, perhaps, bring this about sooner than we expect. In the course of a week, the whole of the New Testament will be translated into the vernacular language of Manco Capac, and by a descendant of that ancient race of kings.

I have written to the Viceroy La Serna, who resides at present in Cuzco, requesting to know his determination regarding the continuing of our system, under his government, in this city, and whether he is desirous of extending it throughout the country. In something less than two months I shall probably hear from him, and shall communicate to you the result. If the answer be favourable, I shall most likely repair immediately to Cuzco, leaving one of the masters before mentioned in charge of this school; and should his answer be unfavourable, I shall leave this place and go northwards.

We have often been very desirous of commencing a girls’ school in this city, and we have very good accommodations in our college for this purpose; but we have never been able to effect it, in consequence of the extreme scarcity of money at present in this city. If Lima had been in its former state of abundance, we could have effected it with great ease; and it would have been a very great blessing to this place. We would, in that case, have been very desirous of receiving a well-qualified teacher from your Committee, to direct our female department. It would still be preferable to send two, as one of them could attend to the public school, and the other might keep a respectable boarding-school for the higher classes. Regarding this last-mentioned part, several parents have spoken to me; and on the whole, I think it would turn out well for those who might come out for that purpose. Such an establishment I am sure would be the means of doing a great deal of good in this country. Female education, in my opinion, is the thing most wanted in every country; and when it shall be properly attended to, the renovation of the world will go on rapidly. Let us know if you could aid us in these matters, if we were directly to apply to you. I notice these things that you may write me upon the subject, and knowing, from experience, how ready you are, at all times, to listen to every proposition which bears on knowledge and benevolence.

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_Lima, 12th April, 1824._

You have, more than once, requested me to state to you any interesting conversations I might have at times with individuals of this country, upon the subject of religion. I have not, I believe, been very communicative in my letters to you on this subject. I believe such details might, in many cases, be interesting, but generally speaking, the questions and answers upon these matters are so nearly what we might expect them to be before hand, under the given circumstances, that little of what can be called solid information is derived therefrom; besides, I understand you print some of my letters, and there is some delicacy and caution to be used under such a consideration, more especially as I have never seen any of your printed accounts, and am thus unable to judge of the freedom you use in such matters. I hope in your selections for the press, you will be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

I shall now detail to you a conversation which I had a few days ago, with a particular friend, upon the subject of religion, and more particularly upon the Catholic and Protestant controversy. The gentleman, with whom I had the conversation, is a man of superior education and abilities, and holds an important situation in one of our colleges. We have been acquainted with each other ever since I arrived in this city. We have visited each other occasionally during that time, and have talked upon religious subjects, but almost always upon those things in which we were agreed. A few days ago I had a visit from him, and we entered almost immediately into a close conversation or controversy upon some of the points of the Catholic religion. I had lying on the table one of the Pope’s bulls, which a young man had brought me a day or two before, as I had expressed to him a desire to see it. I enquired of my friend, where I could obtain a set of these bulls, as I wished to see each of them, in order to ascertain their nature, and what it was they promised to those who should purchase them. After he had informed me where this article was to be found, I told him that I understood that those who purchased one of these bulls at a certain price, namely, eight dollars and a half, were assured that they would get out of purgatory in two or three days after death. He said it was so as I had stated. Do you then really believe, said I, that the Pope can thus pardon the sins of men, and that men can obtain the pardon of their sins by means of expending such a sum of money in the purchase of this bull.—He said he believed the forgiveness of sins could be obtained in the way mentioned, and that the Pope had such authority in virtue of being the successor of the prince of the apostles, to whom Jesus Christ had granted the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and power to remit or to retain the sins of men. It is to be supposed, however, continued he, that confession of sins is to be made in order to this forgiveness. And in confession to whom can the penitent go but to the minister of Christ, in order that they may instruct him in the nature of repentance? To prevent him from deceiving himself, and believing he has repented when he has not, it is necessary to show him what are the signs of a sincere repentance; and when the priest finds the penitent as he ought to be, then in virtue of the power given by Christ to his ministers, they absolve him from his sins.—In answer to what he said, I told him that I considered it to be the duty of man to confess his sins unto God, as it is with him alone we have to do, and not with one another; and that the Scripture assures us, that if we humbly and sincerely confess our sins unto him, and beg forgiveness through the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall obtain the mercy we ask for. I then said, that I believed none could forgive sins but God only; and that as to the power given to the apostle Peter, and also to the other apostles to forgive the sins of men or to retain them, I conceived it to be a power of doing this only in a certain way, namely, in the way corresponding to the instructions which they had received from their divine Master. I illustrated this by the case of an ambassador sent by his sovereign with terms of peace to a neighbouring prince. The Ambassador, I said, is authorized to make peace between the two nations, that is, to put an end to the war or to continue it. He is not, however, at liberty to do this in any way he chooses, but only in that way which the instructions of his sovereign authorize. So was it, I continued, with the ambassadors whom the Lord Jesus sent into the world; they were sent to proclaim and to celebrate a peace between God and man, but they were to do so only in one way, that is, in the way prescribed to them, and of which, I observed, we shall presently speak. As to the superiority of the Apostle Peter, said I, to which you refer, or to speak more properly, the superior honour conferred upon him, it is easy to see in what it consisted, and how far it extended. To him were promised the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and also the power of remitting and retaining sins; this latter power was also conferred upon the other Apostles, so that the difference, or the superior honour conferred upon Peter, consisted in having the keys put into his hands. Keys are for the unlocking of doors, that a free entrance may be had to a place inaccessible before the gates were opened. Now, said I, the Apostle Peter was honoured by his Lord, to open the gates of the kingdom of heaven, in the first place unto the Jews, and which he accordingly did in his sermon on the day of Pentecost, and by which means three thousand entered the church of God at one rush. The same individual was afterwards honoured _to open the door_ of faith unto the Gentiles, by a special commission from heaven to that effect. Having thus opened the gates of the kingdom of heaven unto the Jews, and also unto the Gentiles, there was no farther use for these keys. The Apostles of our Lord, in regard to authority in the church, were exactly upon a level, none was superior and none was inferior. And now, I continued, with regard to what we were speaking of before, namely, the forgiveness of sins, I conceive the Apostles could do it only by making known the message of peace and reconciliation to their fellow sinners, and by declaring, in the name of their Master, to those who believed their testimony, the remission of sins consequent upon their belief; and on the other hand, they retained the sins of men, by declaring unto those who disbelieved their testimony, that the wrath of God remained upon them. Further, I said, regarding the successors of the Apostles, I conceived that strictly speaking they had none, nor were there any required. In their life time they exercised their authority, and fulfilled their commission in the way I have stated. And knowing that they were not to continue long upon the earth, and being desirous that these sacred truths which they preached into men should always be held in remembrance, they committed them to writing, and these writings, through the blessing of God, remain unto this day. The Apostles, therefore, have made their own writings their successors, and thus, through them, they continue still to speak to mankind; they still publish the message of reconciliation, and whose sins soever _they_ remit, they are remitted, and whose soever sins _they_ retain, they are retained. I remarked a little before, I continued, that it was at their peril that the Apostles acted in any other way in the forgiving and retaining of sins, and I now add, that it is at the peril of men to receive the remission of sins in any other way than in that which the Apostles taught. The great and eventful day that awaits us all, will declare on what authority and foundation we have enjoyed peace in this weighty affair. The precious stones, the gold and the silver will stand the fire which is to try them, but the wood, the hay, and the stubble shall be burned up.

When I had finished the observations which I have now mentioned, my friend took his turn to speak, and stated his mind upon these topics with great clearness and eloquence to the following effect:—My dear Sir, in regard to the explanation of the passage on which you have now given your opinion, and also with regard to the explanation of the Scriptures in general, I conceive our best and surest plan is to have recourse to the uniform explanation and judgment of the church. If every one is at liberty to form his own opinion of the meaning of Scripture, there will be nearly as many opinions as there are individuals. Witness the divisions which exist among the Protestants, in consequence of this liberty which they take of explaining the Scripture, every one as appears best to him. One believes a certain thing, another denies it, and a third believes something different from both. Every truth in the Scripture has thus been defended and opposed, and torn in pieces by this principle, of every one explaining according to his own judgment and fancy. Under these circumstances, what a consolation it is to have an authority to which we can in all cases recur, and in whose decision we can rest fully satisfied. This authority is _the church_,—which Jesus Christ has invested with full power on all these points. In consequence of this, the noble truths of our religion continue as they were in the beginning. The judgment of the church has never varied upon them as it has done among the Protestants, neither can it vary. We have the promise of Jesus Christ that he will be with his church to the end of the world, and that whatsoever shall be bound by its judgment upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven, and that whatsoever shall be loosed by it on earth, shall be loosed in heaven. My dear friend, here is our foundation, here is our authority and consolation. The Catholic church has continued since the days of the Apostles and has had an uninterrupted succession of Bishops, from St. Peter until the present day. The Protestants cannot plead such a succession. They are but a sect which left the church a century or two ago, and still occupy a small portion of the world; whereas the Catholic church, descending from the Apostles, has spread on every side, and its doctrines have continued pure and uncorrupted from the beginning until now, yea, and they will continue so until the end of the world, for Jesus Christ has promised it. Here, my friend, is firm footing, and all else, be assured, is quicksand and uncertainty. I was born a Catholic, and I adhere to the religion of my country, and in which I was educated. It is not, however, from the circumstance of being brought up in this religion that I now adhere to it. No, Sir, on the contrary, when I came of age I began to entertain doubts about our religion. Upon this, I set myself to examine the subject with diligence and attention, and the result was a thorough persuasion of its firm and unalterable foundation, and of the beauty and grandeur of the structure. I look upon the Catholic religion, therefore, with great delight and confidence. It appears to me like a great and majestic river running through an extensive continent. On one hand it makes its way, tumbling over rocks, yet uninterrupted in its course by such impediments; again, it meets in its course with shelves and dykes, and after being retarded a little by these hindrances it breaks its way over, and then holds its noble and majestic course until it reaches the ocean, enriching and beautifying every place through which it flows. Such is our religion, and I clasp it to my bosom and esteem it my best and only treasure.

When he had finished, I observed to him, that the plan of the Church explaining all doubts and difficulties regarding the meaning of every part of Scripture, and of our resting in that decision, had the appearance of possessing many advantages. How desirable is it that we should be able to set our minds at rest on subjects of such importance, and wherein a mistake or an error might be attended with very serious consequences. But there appears to me, I said, a great difficulty to be got over, before we can allow our minds to enjoy the ease and confidence referred to, by resting in an infallible interpreter. The difficulty I speak of is this: How shall I know that the church has indeed the authority you speak of? If I were fully satisfied that the church possesses this authority, I would, I assure you, fully confide in it. You remember that, in a former conversation, you promised to prove your positions regarding the Catholic Church with evidence as satisfactory as the proof, that the three interior angles of a triangle are equal to two right angles. Now, I continued to observe, I cannot see evidence for believing that the church has the power in question, and I cannot receive it as a doctrine until I be convinced. On what then do you build this doctrine?