Chapter C: E. F

* * * * *

Replies to Minor Queries.

_Daughters taking their Mothers' Names_ (Vol. viii., p.586.).--BURIENSIS asked for instances of temp. Edw. I., II., III., of a daughter adding to her own name that of her mother: as Alice, daughter of Ada, &c. Though I am not able to furnish an instance of a daughter doing so, I can refer him to a few of sons using that form of surname some years earlier, but the practice seems very limited. Thus in _Liber de Antiquis Legibus_, published by the Camden Society, we have, among the early sheriffs of London in 1193, Willielmus filius Ysabelis, or, as in the appendix 222, Ysabel; in 1200, Willielmus filius Alicie; in 1213, Martinus filius Alicie; and in 1233 and 1246, Simon filius Marie,--the same person that, as Simon Fitz-Mary, is known as the founder of the Hospital of St. Mary Bethlehem Without, Bishopsgate.

W. S. W.

Middle Temple.

_The Young Pretender_ (Vol. ix., p. 177.).--Will CEYREP, or any other correspondent, furnish me with particulars of the Young Pretender's marriage with a daughter of the House of Stolberg; her name, place of burial, &c.? She was descended maternally from the noble House of Bruce, through the marriage of Thomas, second Earl of Aylesbury and third Earl of Elgin, with Charlotte (his second wife) Countess of Sannu, or Sannau, of the House of Argenteau. They had a daughter, Charlotte Maria, I suppose an only child, who was married in the year 1722 to the Prince of Horn. These had issue Mary and Elizabeth, whom also I suppose {231} to have been only children. One of them married the Prince of Stolberg, and the other the Prince of Salm. One of the descendants of this family was an annuitant on the estate of the Marquis of Aylesbury, as recently as twelve or fourteen years ago. Information on any part of this descent would confer an obligation on

PATONCE.

_A Legend of the Hive_ (Vol. ix., p. 167.).--With every feeling of gratitude to EIRIONNACH, I cannot receive praise for false metre and erroneous grammar. In the fifth line of the first stanza of the quoted verse, the first of the above legend, "are" is redundant: and in the first line of the next stanza, "bore" should be "bare." I remember that in more cases than one the printer of my published rhymes has perpetrated this latter mistake.

Suffer me to reply to a question of the same courteous critic EIRIONNACH, in Vol. ix., p. 162., about a "Christ-cross-row." This name for the alphabet obtained in the good old Cornish dame-schools when I was a boy. In a book that I have seen, there is a vignette of a monk teaching a little boy to read, and beneath

"_A Christ-Cross Rhyme._

I.

"Christ his cross shall be my speed!
Teach me, Father John, to read:
That in church, on holy-day,
I may chant the psalm and pray.

II.

"Let me learn, that I may know
What the shining windows show;
Where the lovely Lady stands,
With that bright Child in her hands.

III.

"Teach me letters one, two, three,
Till that I shall able be
Signs to know and words to frame,
And to spell sweet Jesu's name!

IV.

"Then, dear master, will I look
Day and night in that fair book,
Where the tales of saints are told,
With their pictures all in gold.

V.

"Teach me, Father John, to say
Vesper-verse and matin-lay;
So when I to God shall plead,
Christ his cross will be my speed!"

H. OF MORWENSTOW.

_Hoby Family_ (Vol. viii., p. 244.; Vol. ix., pp. 19. 58.).--Sir Philip Hoby, or Hobbie, who was born in 1505, and died in 1558, was not only Gentleman of the Privy Chamber to Henry VIII., but, while he held that office, was attached to the embassy of Sir Thomas Wyatt to the Emperor Charles V. in 1538. He was himself ambassador to the same Emperor in 1548, being sent by the Protector Somerset to replace the Bishop of Westminster. It may be interesting to state that two volumes of papers containing instructions and other letters transmitted to Sir Philip during these embassies, and copies of his replies, together with his correspondence with some eminent reformers, were in the possession of Wm. Hare, Esq., M.P. for the city of Cork in 1796. An account of them, drawn up by the Rev. T. D. Hincks, was read before the Royal Irish Academy on December 17 in that year, and printed in the sixth volume of its _Transactions_. It is probable that these papers had formerly belonged to Rev. Sir Philip Hoby, Bart., who was Dean of Ardfert and Chancellor of St. Patrick's; and died without an heir in 1766. He was descended from Sir Thomas Hoby, younger brother of Sir Philip; who was born in 1530, and died in 1566. The father of these two knights was William Hobbie of Leominster. I presume the two volumes of papers referred to are in the possession of the Earl of Listowel, great-grandson of the gentleman who possessed them in 1796.

E. H. D. D.

_Anticipatory Use of the Cross_ (Vol. viii. passim).--

"It is strange, yet well authenticated, and has given rise to many
theories, that the symbol of the Cross was already known to the Indians
before the arrival of Cortez. In the island of Cozumel, near Yucatan,
there were several; and in Yucatan itself there was a stone cross. And
there an Indian, considered a prophet amongst his countrymen, had
declared that a nation bearing the same as a symbol should arrive from
a distant country! More extraordinary still was a temple, dedicated to
the Holy Cross by the Toltec nation in the city of Cholula. Near
Tulansingo there is also a cross engraved on a rock with various
characters, which the Indians by tradition ascribe to the Apostle St.
Thomas. In Oajaca, also, there existed a cross, which the Indians from
time immemorial had been accustomed to consider as a divine symbol. By
order of the Bishop Cervantes it was placed in a sumptuous chapel in
the cathedral. Information concerning its discovery, together with a
small cup, cut out of its wood, was sent to Rome to Paul V.; who
received it on his knees, singing the hymn 'Vexilla regis,' &c."--_Life
in Mexico_, by Madame Calderon de la Barca, Letter xxxvii.

E. H. A.

_Longevity_ (Vols. vii., viii., _passim_).--

"Amongst the fresh antiquities of Cornwall, let not the old woman be
forgotten who died about two years since; who was one hundred and
sixty-four years old, of good memory, and healthful at that age; living
in the parish of Gwithian by the charity of such as came purposely to
see her, speaking to them (in default of English) by an interpreter,
yet partly understanding it. She married a second husband after she was
eighty, {232} and buried him after he was eighty years of
age."--Scawens' _Dissertation on the Cornish Tongue_, written temp.
Car. II.

ANON.

As very many, if not all, the instances mentioned in "N. & Q." of those who have reached a very advanced age, were people of humble origin, may we not now refer to those of noble birth? To commence the list, I would name Sir Ralph de Vernon, "who is said to have lived to the age of one hundred and fifty, and thence generally was called the Old Liver." My authority is, Burke's _Peerage and Baronetage_, edit. 1848, p. 1009.

W. W.

Malta.

"_Nugget_" (Vol. viii., pp. 375. 481.).--A note from Mundy's _Our Antipodes_:

"The word _nugget_, among farmers, signifies a small compact beast, a
runt: among gold-miners a lump, in contradistinction to the scale or
dust-gold."

CLERICUS RUSTICUS.

_The fifth Lord Byron_ (Vol. ix., p. 18.).--I believe it to be an acknowledged fact, that an old man's memory is generally good of events of years past and gone: and as an octogenarian I am not afraid to state that, from the discussions on the subject, I feel myself perfectly correct as to the main point of my observations (Vol. viii., p. 2.), viz. the error committed in the limitation of the ultimate reversion of the estate; but as to the secondary point to which MR. WARDEN alludes, I may perhaps be in error in placing it on the settlement of the son, inasmuch as the effect would be the same if it occurred in the settlement of the father; and MR. WARDEN'S observations leave an inference that the mistake may have there occurred; as, in such case, if the error had been discovered,--and by any altercation the son had refused to correct the mistake, which he could and ought to have consented to, after the failure of his own issue,--this alone, between two hasty tempers, would have been sufficient cause of quarrel, without reference to the question of marrying an own cousin, which is often very justly objectionable.

WM. S. HESLEDEN.

_Wapple, or Whapple-way_ (Vol. ix., p. 125.).--This name is common in the south, and means a bridle-way, or road in which carriages cannot pass. In Sussex these ways are usually short cuts through fields and woods, from one road or place to another. (See Halliwell's _Dictionary_, and Cooper's _Sussex Glossary_.) The derivation is not given by either writer.

D.

In Manning's _Surrey_, I find not any mention of this term; but apprehend it to be a corruption of the Norman-French, _vert plain_, "a green road or alley:" which, as our Saxon ancestors pronounced the _v_ as a _w_, easily slides into _war plain_ or _warple_. (See Du Cange, _Supp._, _in voce_ "Plain.")

C. H.

_The Ducking-stool_ (Vol. viii., p.315.).--As late as the year 1824, a woman was convicted of being a common scold in the Court of Quarter Sessions of Philadelphia County, and sentenced "to be placed in a certain instrument of correction called a cucking or ducking-stool," and plunged three times into the water; but the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, upon the removal of the case by writ of error, decided that this punishment was obsolete, and contrary to the spirit of the age.

Our fathers held the ducking-stool in higher respect, as appears from the following presentments of the grand juries of Philadelphia, the originals of which have been lately discovered. In January, 1717, they say (through William Fishbourne, their foreman),--

"Whereas it has been frequently and often presented by several former
grand juries for this city, the necessity of a ducking-stool and house
of correction for the just punishment of scolding, drunken women, as
well as divers other profligate and unruly persons in this place, who
are become a public nuisance and disturbance to this town in general;
therefore we, the present grand jury, do earnestly again present the
same to this court of quarter sessions for the city, desiring their
immediate care, that _those publick conveniences_ may not be any longer
delayed, but with all possible speed provided for the detection and
quieting such disorderly persons."

Another, the date of which is not given, but which is signed by the same foreman, presents "Alsoe that a ducking-stoole be made for publick use, being very much wanting for scolding women," &c. And in 1720, another grand jury, of which Benjamin Duffield was foreman, say:

"The Grand Inquest, we taking in consideration the great disorders of
the turbulent and ill-behaviour of many people in this city, we present
the great necessity of a ducking-stool for such people according to
their deserts."

UNEDA.

Philadelphia.

_Double Christian Names_ (Vol. ix., p. 45.).--It is surely not correct to say that the earliest instance of two Christian names is in the case of a person born in 1635. Surely Henry, Prince of Wales, the son of James I., is an earlier instance. Sir Thomas Strand Fairfax was certainly born before that date. Sir Edmund Berry Godfrey was probably an earlier instance; and Sir Robert Bruce Colton, the antiquary, certainly so. Writing at a distance from my books, I can only appeal to memory; but see Southey's _Common-Place Book_, vol. i. p. 510. Venables, in his _Travels in Russia_, {233} tells us that "a Russian has never more than one Christian name, which must be always that of a saint." To these a patronymic is often added of the father's name, with the addition _vich_, as in the case of the present Czar, Nicholas Paulovich, the son of Paul.

W. DENTON.

Torquay.

_Pedigree to the Time of Alfred_ (Vol. viii., p. 586.).--Some ten or twelve years since I was staying at the King's Head Inn, Egham, Surrey (now defunct), when a fresh-looking, respectable man was pointed out to one as Mr. Wapshot, who had held an estate in the neighbourhood from his ancestors prior to the Conquest. He was not represented as a blacksmith, but as farming his own estate. I am not connected with Egham or the neighbourhood, or I would make farther inquiry.

S. D.

_Palace of Lucifer_ (Vol. v., p. 275.).--If R. T. has not observed it, I would refer him to the note in the Aldine edition of Milton, vol. iii. p. 263., where I find "Luciferi domus" is the palace of the sun (see _Prolusiones_, p. 120.); and not, as T. WARTON conjectured, the abode of Satan.