Chapter XII (9)

_Seventh_. A belief in malicious supernatural be- ings--devils, witches, and wizards.

_Eighth_. A belief in an infinite being who or- dered, commanded, established and approved all these evils.

_Ninth_. The idea that one man can be good for another, or bad for another--that is to say, that one can be rewarded for the goodness of another, or justly punished for the sins of another.

_Tenth_. The dogma that a finite being can commit an infinite sin, and thereby incur the eternal dis- pleasure of an infinitely good being, and be justly subjected to eternal torment.

My principal objection to the Bible is that it sus- tains all of these ten evils--that it is the advocate of

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human slavery, the friend of polygamy; that within its pages I find the command to wage wars of ex- termination; that I find also that the Jews were taught to hate foreigners--to consider all human beings as inferior to themselves; I also find persecu- tion commanded as a religious duty; that kings were seated upon their thrones by the direct act of God, and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against God. I object to the Bible also because I find within its pages the infamous spirit of caste--I see the sons of Levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and governors of a people; because I find the air filled with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons of men; because this book is the fountain of modern superstition, the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress of caste. This book also subverts the idea of justice by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a finite being.

At the same time, I admit--as I always have ad- mitted--that there are good passages in the Bible-- good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true line of history. But when it is asserted that every word was written by inspiration--that a being of in- finite wisdom and goodness is its author,--then I raise the standard of revolt.

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_Question_. What do you think of the declaration of Mr. Talmage that the Bible will be read in heaven throughout all the endless ages of eternity?

_Answer_. Of course I know but very little as to what is or will be done in heaven. My knowledge of that country is somewhat limited, and it may be possible that the angels will spend most of their time in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testa- ment. I can not positively deny the statement of the Reverend Mr. Talmage as I have but very little idea as to how the angels manage to kill time.

The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon that some people wondered what they would do through all eternity in heaven. He said that, as for himself, for the first hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in one of the Savior's feet, and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his other foot, and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in one of his hands, and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in the other hand, and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his side.

Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this

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A man capable of being happy in such employment, could of course take great delight in reading even the genealogies of the Old Testament. It is very easy to see what a glow of joy would naturally over- spread the face of an angel while reading the history of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim would clasp their rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate of Korah and his company, and what laughter would wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some one told again the story of the children and the bears; and what happy groups, with folded pinions, would smilingly listen to the 109th Psalm.

An orthodox "state of mind"

THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.

_As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons referred to in these interviews, for the purpose of furnishing arguments to the young, so that they might not be misled by the sophistry of modern infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth, for use in Sunday schools, the pith and marrow of what he has been pleased to say, in the form of_

A SHORTER CATECHISM.

_Question_. Who made you?

_Answer_. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.

_Question_. What else did he make?

_Answer_. He made the world and all things.

_Question_. Did he make the world out of nothing?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. What did he make it out of?

_Answer_. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels have pretended that if God made the universe, and if there was nothing until he did make it, he had nothing to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd when we remember that he always had his "omnipo- tence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.

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_Question_. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?

_Answer_. Certainly not, he was always omnipo- tent.

_Question_. Then if he always had "omnipotence," he did not "create" the material of which the uni- verse is made; he simply took a portion of his "omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?

_Answer_. Certainly, that is the way I under- stand it.

_Question_. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as much "omnipotence" now as he ever had?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose he has.

_Question_. How long did it take God to make the universe?

_Answer_. Six "good-whiles."

_Question_. How long is a "good-while"?

_Answer_. That will depend upon the future dis- coveries of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such a nature that they can be pulled out, or pushed up; and it is utterly impossible for any infidel, or scien- tific geologist, to make any period that a "good-while" won't fit.

_Question_. What do you understand by "the "morning and evening" of a "good-while"?

_Answer_. Of course the words "morning and

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"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply the beginning and the ending, of each "good-while."

_Question_. On what day did God make vegetation?

_Answer_. On the third day.

_Question_. Was that before the sun was made?

_Answer_. Yes; a "good-while" before.

_Question_. How did vegetation grow without sun- light?

_Answer_. My own opinion is, that it was either "nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers "of molten granite;" or, "sufficient light might have "been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It has been suggested that light might have been fur- nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and worms, but this I regard as going too far.

_Question_. Do you think that light emitted by rocks would be sufficient to produce trees?

_Answer_. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora "Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with both, most assuredly.

_Question_. If the light of which you speak was sufficient, why was the sun made?

_Answer_. To keep time with.

_Question_. What did God make man of?

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_Answer_. He made man of dust and "omnipo- "tence."

_Question_. Did he make a woman at the same time that he made a man?

_Answer_. No; he thought at one time to avoid the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all the animals to pass before Adam, to see what he would call them, and to see whether a fit companion could be found for him. Among them all, not one suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he would have to make an help-meet on purpose.

_Question_. What was woman made of?

_Answer_. She was made out of "man's side, out of his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi- dels say that she was made out of a rib, or a bone, but that is because they do not understand Hebrew.

_Question_. What was the object of making woman out of man's side?

_Answer_. So that a young man would think more of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand- father.

_Question_. What did God do with Adam and Eve after he got them done?

_Answer_. He put them into a garden to see what they would do.

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_Question_. Do we know where the Garden of Eden was, and have we ever found any place where a "river parted and became into four heads"?

_Answer_. We are not certain where this garden was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot at present be found. Infidels have had a great deal to say about these four rivers, but they will wish they had even one, one of these days.

_Question_. What happened to Adam and Eve in the garden?

_Answer_. They were tempted by a snake who was an exceedingly good talker, and who probably came in walking on the end of his tail. This supposition is based upon the fact that, as a punishment, he was condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time, of course, he walked upright.

_Question_. What happened then?

_Answer_. Our first parents gave way, ate of the forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and death entered the world. Had it not been for this, there would have been no death and no disease. Suicide would have been impossible, and a man could have been blown into a thousand atoms by dynamite, and the pieces would immediately have come together again. Fire would have refused to

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burn and water to drown; there could have been no hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally healthy.

_Question_. Do you mean to say that there would have been no death in the world, either of animals, insects, or persons?

_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. Do you also think that all briers and thorns sprang from the same source, and that had the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles would have been unknown?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Would there have been no poisonous plants, no poisonous reptiles?

_Answer_. No, sir; there would have been none; there would have been no evil in the world if Adam and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.

_Question_. Was the snake who tempted them to eat, evil?

_Answer_. Certainly. '

_Question_. Was he in the world before the for- bidden fruit was eaten?

_Answer_. Of course he was; he tempted them to eat it

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_Question_. How, then, do you account for the fact that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil serpent was in the world?

_Answer_. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other worlds.

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that such awful con- sequences flowed from so small an act?

_Answer_. It is not for you to reason about it; you should simply remember that God is omnipotent. There is but one way to answer these things, and that is to admit their truth. Nothing so puts the Infinite out of temper as to see a human being impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The moment we rely upon our reason, we abandon God, and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and reason has no need of him.

_Question_. Were our first parents under the im- mediate protection of an infinite God?

_Answer_. They were.

_Question_. Why did he not protect them? Why did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he not put them on their guard? Why did he not make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that

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snake; or how did he come to make him; what did he make him for?

_Answer_. You must remember that, although God made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very anxious to test them. He also gave them the power of choice, knowing at the same time exactly what they would choose, and knowing that he had made them so that they must choose in a certain way. A being of infinite wisdom tries experiments. Knowing ex- actly what will happen, he wishes to see if it will.

_Question_. What punishment did God inflict upon Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for- bidden fruit?

_Answer_. He pronounced a curse upon the woman, saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children, and that her husband should rule over her; that she, having tempted her husband, was made his slave; and through her, all married women have been de- prived of their natural liberty. On account of the sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying that it should bring forth thorns and thistles, and that man should eat his bread in sorrow, and that he should eat the herb of the field.

_Question_. Did he turn them out of the garden because of their sin?

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_Answer_. No. The reason God gave for turning them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is "become as one of us, to know good and evil; and "now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the "tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the "Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden "to till the ground from whence he was taken."

_Question_. If the man had eaten of the tree of life, would he have lived forever?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Was he turned out to prevent his eating?

_Answer_. He was.

_Question_. Then the Old Testament tells us how we lost immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?

_Answer_. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.

_Question_. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit of the tree of life?

_Answer_. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher- "ubim and a flaming sword which turned every "way to guard the tree of life."

_Question_. Has any one ever seen any of these cherubim?

_Answer_. Not that I know of.

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_Question_. Where is the flaming sword now?

_Answer_. Some angel has it in heaven.

_Question_. Do you understand that God made coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when he turned them out of the garden?

_Answer_. Yes, sir.

_Question_. Do you really believe that the infinite God killed some animals, took their skins from them, cut out and sewed up clothes for Adam and Eve?

_Answer_. The Bible says so; we know that he had patterns for clothes, because he showed some to Moses on Mount Sinai.

_Question_. About how long did God continue to pay particular attention to his children in this world?

_Answer_. For about fifteen hundred years; and some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand years of age.

_Question_. Did this God establish any schools or institutions of learning? Did he establish any church? Did he ordain any ministers, or did he have any re- vivals?

_Answer_. No; he allowed the world to go on pretty much in its own way. He did not even keep his own boys at home. They came down and made

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love to the daughters of men, and finally the world got exceedingly bad.

_Question_. What did God do then?

_Answer_. He made up his mind that he would drown them. You see they were all totally depraved,--in every joint and sinew of their bodies, in every drop of their blood, and in every thought of their brains.

_Question_. Did he drown them all?

_Answer_. No, he saved eight, to start with again.

_Question_. Were these eight persons totally de- praved?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Why did he not kill them, and start over again with a perfect pair? Would it not have been better to have had his flood at first, before he made anybody, and drowned the snake?

_Answer_. "God's way are not our ways;" and besides, you must remember that "a thousand years "are as one day" with God.

_Question_. How did God destroy the people?

_Answer_. By water; it rained forty days and forty nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were "broken up."

_Question_. How deep was the water?

_Answer_. About five miles.

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_Question_. How much did it rain each day?

_Answer_. About eight hundred feet; though the better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In- fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that degree that most orthodox people admit that the flood was rather local.

_Question_. If it was a local flood, why did they put birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could have avoided a local flood?

_Answer_. If you take this away from us, what do you propose to give us in its place? Some of the best people of the world have believed this story. Kind husbands, loving mothers, and earnest patriots have believed it, and that is sufficient.

_Question_. At the time God made these people, did he know that he would have to drown them all?

_Answer_. Of course he did.

_Question_. Did he know when he made them that they would all be failures?

_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. Why, then, did he make them?

_Answer_. He made them for his own glory, and no man should disgrace his parents by denying it.

_Question_. Were the people after the flood just as bad as they were before?

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_Answer_. About the same.

_Question_. Did they try to circumvent God?

_Answer_. They did.

_Question_. How?

_Answer_. They got together for the purpose of build- ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven, so that they could laugh at any future floods, and go to heaven at any time they desired.

_Question_. Did God hear about this?

_Answer_. He did.

_Question_. What did he say?

_Answer_. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and see what the people are doing; I am satisfied they will succeed.

_Question_. How were the people prevented from succeeding?

_Answer_. God confounded their language, so that the mason on top could not cry "mort'!" to the hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.

_Question_. If it had not been for the confusion of tongues at Babel, do you really think that all the people in the world would have spoken just the same language, and would have pronounced every word precisely the same?

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_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. If it had not been, then, for the con- fusion of languages, spelling books, grammars and dictionaries would have been useless?

_Answer_. I suppose so.

_Question_. Do any two people in the whole world speak the same language, now?

_Answer_. Of course they don't, and this is one of the great evidences that God introduced confusion into the languages. Every error in grammar, every mistake in spelling, every blunder in pronunciation, proves the truth of the Babel story.

_Question_. This being so, this miracle is the best attested of all?

_Answer_. I suppose it is.

_Question_. Do you not think that a confusion of tongues would bring men together instead of separa- ting them? Would not a man unable to converse with his fellow feel weak instead of strong; and would not people whose language had been con- founded cling together for mutual support?

_Answer_. According to nature, yes; according to theology, no; and these questions must be answered according to theology. And right here, it may be well enough to state, that in theology the unnatural

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is the probable, and the impossible is what has always happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody could be a theologian.

_Question_. Did God ever make any other special efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?

_Answer_. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.

_Question_. Do you suppose it was really brim- stone?

_Answer_. Undoubtedly.

_Question_. Do you think this brimstone came from the clouds?

_Answer_. Let me tell you that you have no right to examine the Bible in the light of what people are pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing to do with the supernatural. Naturally there would be no brimstone in the clouds, but supernaturally there might be. God could make brimstone out of his "omnipotence." We do not know really what brimstone is, and nobody knows exactly how brim- stone is made. As a matter of fact, all the brimstone in the world might have fallen at that time.

_Question_. Do you think that Lot's wife was changed into salt?

_Answer_. Of course she was. A miracle was per-

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formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing. Christian travelers have seen it.

_Question_. Why do you think she was changed into salt?

_Answer_. For the purpose of keeping the event fresh in the minds of men.

_Question_. God having failed to keep people in- nocent in a garden; having failed to govern them outside of a garden; having failed to reform them by water; having failed to produce any good result by a confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them with fire and brimstone, what did he then do?

_Answer_. He concluded that he had no time to waste on them all, but that he would have to select one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few folks.

_Question_. Whom did he select?

_Answer_. A man by the name of Abram.

_Question_. What kind of man was Abram?

_Answer_. If you wish to know, read the twelfth chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts as to his character, read the twentieth chapter of the same book, and you will see that he was a man who made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had

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such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experi- ment again on Abimelech.

_Question_. Did Abraham show any gratitude?

_Answer_. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to show his confidence in Jehovah.

_Question_. What became of Abraham and his people?

_Answer_. God took such care of them, that in about two hundred and fifteen years they were all slaves in the land of Egypt.

_Question_. How long did they remain in slavery?

_Answer_. Two hundred and fifteen years.

_Question_. Were they the same people that God had promised to take care of?

_Answer_. They were.

_Question_. Was God at that time, in favor of slavery?

_Answer_. Not at that time. He was angry at the Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards authorized the Jews to enslave other people.

_Question_. What means did he take to liberate the Jews?

_Answer_. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and de- manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing, he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with

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it, with various plagues,--killed children, and tor- mented and tortured beasts.

_Question_. Was such conduct Godlike?

_Answer_. Certainly. If you have anything against your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler than this. You see it is much better to injure his animals than to injure him. To punish animals for the sins of their owners must be just, or God would not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the people in slavery, and therefore God covered the bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised them to death with hailstones. From this we infer, that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."

_Question_. Do you consider such treatment of ani- mals consistent with divine mercy?

_Answer_. Certainly. You know that under the Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he could settle with God by killing an ox, or a sheep, or some doves. If the man failed to kill them, of course God would kill them. It was upon this prin- ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians. They had sinned, and he merely took his pay.

_Question_. How was it possible, under the old dis- pensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?

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_Answer_. All you had to do was to take an innocent animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to be burnt on the altar. When God saw an animal thus butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face. Of course, infidels laugh at these things; but what can you expect of men who have not been "born "again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God." _Question_. What else did God do in order to in- duce Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?

_Answer_. He had his agents throw down a cane in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah changed this cane into a serpent.

_Question_. Did this convince Pharaoh?

_Answer_. No; he sent for his own magicians. _Question_. What did they do?

_Answer_. They threw down some canes and they also were changed into serpents.

_Question_. Did Jehovah change the canes of the Egyptian magicians into snakes?

_Answer_. I suppose he did, as he is the only one capable of performing such a miracle.

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_Question_. If the rod of Aaron was changed into a serpent in order to convince Pharaoh that God had sent Aaron and Moses, why did God change the sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents--why did he discredit his own agents, and render worth- less their only credentials?

_Answer_. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for the best. Even in this age of the world God allows infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu- ments; he allows them to discover facts that his ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied that in the end God will give the victory to us. All these things are tests of faith. It is upon this prin- ciple that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis, that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict his holy word.

_Question_. What did God do with these people after Pharaoh allowed them to go?

_Answer_. Finding that they were not fit to settle a new country, owing to the fact that when hungry they longed for food, and sometimes when their lips were cracked with thirst insisted on having water, God in his infinite mercy had them marched round and round, back and forth, through a barren wilder-

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ness, until all, with the exception of two persons, died.

_Question_. Why did he do this?

_Answer_. Because he had promised these people that he would take them "to a land flowing with "milk and honey."

_Question_. Was God always patient and kind and merciful toward his children while they were in the wilderness?

_Answer_. Yes, he always was merciful and kind and patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he visited them with plagues and disease and famine; that he had them bitten by serpents, and now and then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with good government; but all these things were for their good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense of justice.

_Question_. How did God happen to treat the Is- raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham that he would take care of his progeny, and when he had promised the same to the poor wretches while they were slaves in Egypt?

_Answer_. Because God is unchangeable in his na-

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ture, and wished to convince them that every being should be perfectly faithful to his promise.

_Question_. Was God driven to madness by the conduct of his chosen people?

_Answer_. Almost.

_Question_. Did he know exactly what they would do when he chose them?

_Answer_. Exactly.

_Question_. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?

_Answer_. They were. They worshiped other gods --gods made of wood and stone.

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that they were not convinced of the power of God, by the many mira- cles wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness?

_Answer_. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews, who must have seen bread rained from heaven; who saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill and down; who noticed that their clothes did not wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees, while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is wonderful that when they saw the ground open and swallow their comrades; when they saw God talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the

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pillar of fire by night,--it is absolutely astonishing that they had more faith in a golden calf that they made themselves, than in Jehovah.

_Question_. How is it that the Jews had no confi- dence in these miracles?

_Answer_. Because they were there and saw them.

_Question_. Do you think that it is necessary for us to believe all the miracles of the Old Testament in order to be saved?

_Answer_. The Old Testament is the foundation of the New. If the Old Testament is not inspired, then the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot believe that God would allow any errors, or false statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to be perpetuated through all these years.

_Question_. Should we believe the miracles, whether they are reasonable or not?

_Answer_. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im- possible to have theological faith in anything that can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to

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believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the length of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of "this world foolishness." Neither can the uncon- verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would in and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot could create oil. But to a Christian, in order that a widow might feed a preacher, the truth of these stories is perfectly apparent.

_Question_. How should we regard the wonderful stories of the Old Testament?

_Answer_. They should be looked upon as "types" and "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi- cance. The reason I believe the story of Jonah is, that Jonah is a type of Christ.

_Question_. Do you believe the story of Jonah to be a true account of a literal fact?

_Answer_. Certainly. You must remember that Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre- "pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by any means certain that Jonah was in the belly of this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth." Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice by rapidly walking up and down..

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_Question_. Do you think that Jonah was really in the whale's stomach?

_Answer_. My own opinion is that he stayed in his mouth. The only objection to this theory is, that it is more reasonable than the other and requires less faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion simply that you may be able to answer the objections of infidels who are always laughing at this story.

_Question_. Do you really believe that Elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of fire?

_Answer_. Of course he did.

_Question_. What was this miracle performed for?

_Answer_. To convince the people of the power of God.

_Question_. Who saw the miracle?

_Answer_. Nobody but Elisha.

_Question_. Was he convinced before that time?

_Answer_. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.

_Question_. Suppose that in these days two men should leave a town together, and after a while one of them should come back having on the clothes of the other, and should account for the fact that he had

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his friend's clothes by saying that while they were going along the road together a chariot of fire came down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and there- upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his clothes, and departed,--would you believe it?

_Answer_. Of course things like that don't happen in these days; God does not have to rely on wonders now.

_Question_. Do you mean that he performs no miracles at the present day?

_Answer_. We cannot say that he does not perform miracles now, but we are not in position to call atten- tion to any particular one. Of course he supervises the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in his judgment is necessary.

_Question_. Do you think that Samson's strength depended on the length of his hair?

_Answer_. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true. A physiologist might say that a man could not use the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes, but these same physiologists could not tell you how you move a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of a man's hair could not determine his strength. God says it did; the physiologist says that it did not; we

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can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe anything; I am willing to say that strength depends upon the length of hair, or faith upon the length of ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands be- tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone, and that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and that when it was long, he could carry away the gates of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people. If the infidel is right, I will lose nothing by believing, but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity of joy. If God did not intend that we should believe these stories, he never would have told them, and why should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis- prove one of the statements of the Lord?

_Question_. Suppose it should turn out that some of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the original Hebrew, should we still believe them?

_Answer_. The safe side is the best side. It is far better to err on the side of belief, than on the side of infidelity. God does not threaten anybody with eternal punishment for believing too much.

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Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the side of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely safe. As they diverge from that point,--as they rise in the intellectual scale, as the brain develops, as the faculties enlarge, the danger increases. I know that some biblical students now take the ground that Samson caught no foxes,--that he only took sheaves of wheat that had been already cut and bound, set them on fire, and threw them into the grain still standing. If this is what he did, of course there is nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not fed by the ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab" also stands for "bird," and that the word really means "migratory--going from place to place--homeless." But I prefer the old version. It certainly will do no harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh to a prophet of God. Where they got their bread and flesh is none of my business; how they knew where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how God talks to ravens, or how he gave them directions, I have no right to inquire. I leave these questions to the scientists, the blasphemers, and thinkers. There are many people in the church anxious to

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get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands, I have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn that there is, in fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture; but when you take away the miraculous, you take away the supernatural; when you take away the supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when you take away the ministry, hundreds of thousands of men will be left without employment.

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians were not converted by the miracles wrought in their country?

_Answer_. Yes, they all would have been, if God had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent it. Jehovah always took great delight in furnishing the evidence, and then hardening the man's heart so that he would not believe it. After all the miracles that had been performed in Egypt,--the most won- derful that were ever done in any country, the Egyptians were as unbelieving as at first; they pur- sued the Israelites, knowing that they were protected by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them, came back and worshiped their own false gods just as firmly as before. All of which shows the unreason- ableness of a Pagan, and the natural depravity of human nature.

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_Question_. How did it happen that the Canaanites were never convinced that the Jews were assisted by Jehovah?

_Answer_. They must have been an exceedingly brave people to contend so many years with the chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their cities were burned time and time again; notwith- standing all the men, women and children were put to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever. Each one lost his life many times, and was just as ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that God kept them alive by raising them from the dead after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the Jews. God used his enemies as instruments for the civilization of the Jewish people. He did not wish to convert them, because they would give him much more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites. He had all the Jews he could conveniently take care of. He found it much easier to kill a hundred Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.

_Question_. How do you account for the fact that the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the sun and moon?

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_Answer_. They were so ignorant that they had not the slightest conception of the real cause of the phenomenon. Had they known the size of the earth, and the relation it sustained to the other heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of the sun, and the motion of the moon, they would, in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as- tronomy, it must have produced upon them not the slightest impression. But we must remember that the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose of converting these people, but to give Joshua more time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how ad- mirable were the means adopted.

_Question_. Do you not consider the treatment of the Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?

_Answer_. To a totally depraved man, it does look cruel; to a being without any good in him,--to one who has inherited the rascality of many generations, the murder of innocent women and little children does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in "all his parts," by original sin,--who was "conceived "in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina- tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,

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do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But when one has been "born again," when "the love "of God has been shed abroad in his heart," when he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with "good," when he "prays for those who despite- "fully use him and persecute him,"--to such a man, the extermination of the Canaanites, the violation of women, the slaughter of babes, and the destruc- tion of countless thousands, is the highest evidence of the goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering of God. When a man has been "born again," all the passages of the Old Testament that appear so horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state, become the dearest, the most consoling, and the most beautiful of truths. The real Christian reads the accounts of these ancient battles with the greatest possible satisfaction. To one who really loves his enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women, and the cries of babes, make music sweeter than the zephyr's breath.

_Question_. In your judgment, why did God destroy the Canaanites?

_Answer_. To prevent their contaminating his chosen people. He knew that if the Jews were allowed to live with such neighbors, they would

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finally become as bad as the Canaanites themselves. He wished to civilize his chosen people, and it was therefore necessary for him to destroy the heathen.

_Question_. Did God succeed in civilizing the Jews after he had "removed" the Canaanites?

_Answer_. Well, not entirely. He had to allow the heathen he had not destroyed to overrun the whole land and make captives of the Jews. This was done for the good of his chosen people.

_Question_. Did he then succeed in civilizing them?

_Answer_. Not quite.

_Question_. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing them?

_Answer_. Well, we must admit that the experi- ment never was a conspicuous success. The Jews were chosen by the Almighty 430 years before he appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their direct Governor. He attended personally to their religion and politics, and gave up a great part of his valuable time for about two thousand years, to the management of their affairs; and yet, such was the condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all these advantages, that when there arose among them a perfectly kind, just, generous and honest man, these people, with whom God had been laboring for so

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many centuries, deliberately put to death that good and loving man.

_Question_. Do you think that God really endeav- ored to civilize the Jews?

_Answer_. This is an exceedingly hard question. If he had really tried to do it, of course he could have done it. We must not think of limiting the power of the infinite. But you must remember that if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had educated them up to the plane of intellectual liberty, and made them just and kind and merciful, like him- self, they would not have crucified Christ, and you can see at once the awful condition in which we would all be to-day. No atonement could have been made; and if no atonement had been made, then, according to the Christian system, the whole world would have been lost. We must admit that there was no time in the history of the Jews from Sinai to Jerusalem, that they would not have put a man like Christ to death.

_Question_. So you think that, after all, it was not God's intention that the Jews should become civilized?

_Answer_. We do not know. We can only say that "God's ways are not our ways." It may be that God took them in his special charge, for the

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purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the necessary sacrifice. That may have been the divine plan. In any event, it is safer to believe the explana- tion that is the most unreasonable.

_Question_. Do you think that Christ knew the Jews would crucify him?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Do you think that when he chose Judas he knew that he would betray him?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Did he know when Judas went to the chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery of Christ?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Why did he allow himself to be be- trayed, if he knew the plot?

_Answer_. Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live by, but you should read the last words of Paine and Voltaire.

_Question_. If Christ knew that Judas would betray him, why did he choose him?

_Answer_. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the French Revolution--when they carried a woman through the streets and worshiped her as the goddess of Reason.

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_Question_. Would not the mission of Christ have been a failure had no one betrayed him?

_Answer_. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and re- canted on his death-bed, and died a blaspheming infidel besides.

_Question_. Is it not clear that an atonement was necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atone- ment could not have been made unless somebody had betrayed Christ; and unless the Jews had been wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?

_Answer_. Of course the atonement had to be made. It was a part of the "divine plan" that Christ should be betrayed, and that the Jews should be wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world would have been lost.

_Question_. Suppose Judas had understood the divine plan, what ought he to have done? Should he have betrayed Christ, or let somebody else do it; or should he have allowed the world to perish, in- cluding his own soul?

_Answer_. If you take the Bible away from the world, "how would it be possible to have witnesses "sworn in courts;" how would it be possible to ad- minister justice?

_Question_. If Christ had not been betrayed and

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crucified, is it true that his own mother would be in perdition to-day?

_Answer_. Most assuredly. There was but one way by which she could be saved, and that was by the death of her son--through the blood of the atonement. She was totally depraved through the sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even her love for the infant Christ was, in the sight of God,-- that is to say, of her babe,--wickedness. It can not be repeated too often that there is only one way to be saved, and that is, to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

_Question_. Could Christ have prevented the Jews from crucifying him?

_Answer_. He could.

_Question_. If he could have saved his life and did not, was he not guilty of suicide?

_Answer_. No one can understand these questions who has not read the prophecies of Daniel, and has not a clear conception of what is meant by "the full- "ness of time."

_Question_. What became of all the Canaanites, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and Chinese? What became of the billions who died before the promise was made to Abraham; of the

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billions and billions who never heard of the Bible, who never heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ-- never knew of "the scheme of salvation"? What became of the millions and billions who lived in this hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself seemed perfectly ignorant?

_Answer_. They were undoubtedly lost. God having made them, had a right to do with them as he pleased. They are probably all in hell to-day, and the fact that they are damned, only adds to the joy of the redeemed. It is by contrast that we are able to perceive the infinite kindness with which God has treated us.

_Question_. Is it not possible that something can be done for a human soul in another world as well as in this?

_Answer_. No; this is the only world in which God even attempts to reform anybody. In the other world, nothing is done for the purpose of making anybody better. Here in this world, where man lives but a few days, is the only opportunity for moral improvement. A minister can do a thou- sand times more for a soul than its creator; and this country is much better adapted to moral growth than heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a

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few years, and died without having been converted, has no hope in another world. The moment he arrives at the judgment seat, nothing remains but to damn him. Neither God, nor the Holy Ghost, nor Jesus Christ, can have the least possible influence with him there.

_Question_. When God created each human being, did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate?

_Answer_. Most assuredly he did.

_Question_. Did he know that hundreds and millions and billions would suffer eternal pain?

_Answer_. Certainly. But he gave them freedom of choice between good and evil.

_Question_. Did he know exactly how they would use that freedom?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Did he know that billions would use it wrong?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Was it optional with him whether he should make such people or not?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Had these people any option as to whether they would be made or not?

_Answer_, No.

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_Question_. Would it not have been far better to leave them unconscious dust?

_Answer_. These questions show how foolish it is to judge God according to a human standard. What to us seems just and merciful, God may regard in an exactly opposite light; and we may hereafter be developed to such a degree that we will regard the agonies of the damned as the highest possible evi- dence of the goodness and mercy of God.

_Question_. How do you account for the fact that God did not make himself known except to Abra- ham and his descendants? Why did he fail to reveal himself to the other nations--nations that, compared with the Jews, were learned, cultivated and powerful? Would you regard a revelation now made to the Esquimaux as intended for us; and would it be a revelation of which we would be obliged to take notice?

_Answer_. Of course, God could have revealed him- self, not only to all the great nations, but to each individual. He could have had the Ten Command- ments engraved on every heart and brain; or he could have raised up prophets in every land; but he chose, rather, to allow countless millions of his children to wander in the darkness and blackness of

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Nature; chose, rather, that they should redden their hands in each other's blood; chose, rather, that they should live without light, and die without hope; chose, rather, that they should suffer, not only in this world, but forever in the next. Of course we have no right to find fault with the choice of God.

_Question_. Now you can tell a sinner to "believe "on the Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have been told in Egypt, three thousand years ago; and in what language would you have addressed a Hindu in the days of Buddha--the "divine scheme" at that time being a secret in the divine breast?

_Answer_. It is not for us to think upon these questions. The moment we examine the Christian system, we begin to doubt. In a little while, we shall be infidels, and shall lose the respect of those who refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority. These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You should be satisfied with the religion of your father and your mother. "You want some book on the "centre-table," in the parlor; it is extremely handy to have a Family Record; and what book, other than the Bible, could a mother give a son as he leaves the old homestead?

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that all the writers

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of the four gospels do not give an account of the ascension of Jesus Christ?

_Answer_. This question has been answered long ago, time and time again.

_Question_. Perhaps it has, but would it not be well enough to answer it once more? Some may not have seen the answer?

_Answer_. Show me the hospitals that infidels have built; show me the asylums that infidels have founded.

_Question_. I know you have given the usual an- swer; but after all, is it not singular that a miracle so wonderful as the bodily ascension of a man, should not have been mentioned by all the writers of that man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of them said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to stay with his disciples always?

_Answer_. People unacquainted with the Hebrew, can have no conception of these things. A story in plain English, does not sound as it does in Hebrew. Miracles seem altogether more credible, when told in a dead language.

_Question_. What, in your judgment, became of the dead who were raised by Christ? Is it not singular that they were never mentioned afterward?

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