Chapter XII (10)

Would not a man who had been raised from the dead naturally be an object of considerable interest, especially to his friends and acquaintances? And is it not also wonderful that Christ, after having wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and halt and blind, fed so many thousands miraculously, and after having entered Jerusalem in triumph as a conqueror and king, had to be pointed out by one of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose?

_Answer_. Of course, all these things are exceed- ingly wonderful, and if found in any other book, would be absolutely incredible; but we have no right to apply the same kind of reasoning to the Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred books of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of this world, God has given us reason; but in the examination of religious questions, we should de- pend upon credulity and faith.

_Question_. If Christ came to offer himself a sacri- fice, for the purpose of making atonement for the sins of such as might believe on him, why did he not make this fact known to all of his disciples?

_Answer_. He did. This was, and is, the gospel.

_Question_. How is it that Matthew says nothing about "salvation by faith," but simply says that God

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will be merciful to the merciful, that he will forgive the forgiving, and says not one word about the necessity of believing anything?

_Answer_. But you will remember that Mark says, in the last chapter of his gospel, that "whoso be- "lieveth not shall be damned."

_Question_. Do you admit that Matthew says nothing on the subject?

_Answer_. Yes, I suppose I must.

_Question_. Is not that passage in Mark generally admitted to be an interpolation?

_Answer_. Some biblical scholars say that it is.

_Question_. Is that portion of the last chapter of Mark found in the Syriac version of the Bible?

_Answer_. It is not.

_Question_. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus Christ, in order to be saved, how is it that Matthew failed to say so?

_Answer_. "There are more copies of the Bible "printed to-day, than of any other book in the world, "and it is printed in more languages than any other "book."

_Question_. Do you consider it necessary to be "regenerated"--to be "born again"--in order to be saved?

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_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Did Matthew say anything on the sub- ject of "regeneration"?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. Did Mark?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. Did Luke?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. Is Saint John the only one who speaks of the necessity of being "born again"?

_Answer_. He is.

_Question_. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and Luke knew anything about the necessity of "regen- "eration"?

_Answer_. Of course they did.

_Question_. Why did they fail to speak of it?

_Answer_. There is no civilization without the Bible. The moment you throw away the sacred Scriptures, you are all at sea--you are without an anchor and without a compass.

_Question_. You will remember that, according to Mark, Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all "the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Did he refer to the gospel set forth by Mark?

_Answer_. Of course he did.

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_Question_. Well, in the gospel set forth by Mark, there is not a word about "regeneration," and no word about the necessity of believing anything--ex- cept in an interpolated passage. Would it not seem from this, that "regeneration" and a "belief in the "Lord Jesus Christ," are no part of the gospel?

_Answer_. Nothing can exceed in horror the last moments of the infidel; nothing can be more ter- rible than the death of the doubter. When the glories of this world fade from the vision; when am- bition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns to dust in the palsied hand of death, of what use is philosophy then? Who cares then for the pride of intellect? In that dread moment, man needs some- thing to rely on, whether it is true or not.

_Question_. Would it not have been more con- vincing if Christ, after his resurrection, had shown himself to his enemies as well as to his friends? Would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented himself before Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had again entered the temple, and again walked the streets of Jerusalem?

_Answer_. If the evidence had been complete and overwhelming, there would have been no praise-

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worthiness in belief; even publicans and sinners would have believed, if the evidence had been suffi- cient. The amount of evidence required is the test of the true Christian spirit.

_Question_. Would it not also have been better had the ascension taken place in the presence of unbelieving thousands; it seems such a pity to have wasted such a demonstration upon those already convinced?

_Answer_. These questions are the natural fruit of the carnal mind, and can be accounted for only by the doctrine of total depravity. Nothing has given the church more trouble than just such questions. Unholy curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine mysteries, a desire to know, to investigate, to explain --in short, to understand, are all evidences of a re- probate mind.

_Question_. How can we account for the fact that Matthew alone speaks of the wise men of the East coming with gifts to the infant Christ; that he alone speaks of the little babes being killed by Herod? Is it possible that the other writers never heard of these things?

_Answer_. Nobody can get any good out of the Bible by reading it in a critical spirit. The contra-

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dictions and discrepancies are only apparent, and melt away before the light of faith. That which in other books would be absolute and palpable contradiction, is, in the Bible, when spiritually discerned, a perfect and beautiful harmony. My own opinion is, that seeming contradictions are in the Bible for the pur- pose of testing and strengthening the faith of Chris- tians, and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels, "that they might believe a lie and be damned." _Question_. Is it possible that a good God would take pains to deceive his children?

_Answer_. The Bible is filled with instances of that kind, and all orthodox ministers now know that fossil animals--that is, representations of animals in stone, were placed in the rocks on purpose to mis- lead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the purpose of misleading the so-called men of science, had hairy elephants preserved in ice, made stomachs for them, and allowed twigs of trees to be found in these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no such elephants ever lived or ever died. These men who are endeavoring to overturn the Scriptures with the lever of science will find that they have been de- ceived. Through all eternity they will regret their

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philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that they had thrown away geology and physiology and all other "ologies" except theology. The time is coming when Jehovah will "mock at their fears and "laugh at their calamity."

_Question_. If Joseph was not the father of Christ, why was his genealogy given to show that Christ was of the blood of David; why would not the genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?

_Answer_. That objection was raised and answered hundreds of years ago.

_Question_. If they wanted to show that Christ was of the blood of David, why did they not give the gene- alogy of his mother if Joseph was not his father?

_Answer_. That objection was answered hundreds of years ago.

_Question_. How was it answered?

_Answer_. When Voltaire was dying, he sent for a priest.

_Question_. How does it happen that the two gene- alogies given do not agree?

_Answer_. Perhaps they were written by different persons.

_Question_. Were both these persons inspired by the same God?

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_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. Why were the miracles recorded in the New Testament performed?

_Answer_. The miracles were the evidence relied on to prove the supernatural origin and the divine mission of Jesus Christ.

_Question_. Aside from the miracles, is there any evidence to show the supernatural origin or character of Jesus Christ?

_Answer_. Some have considered that his moral precepts are sufficient, of themselves, to show that he was divine.

_Question_. Had all of his moral precepts been taught before he lived?

_Answer_. The same things had been said, but they did not have the same meaning.

_Question_. Does the fact that Buddha taught the same tend to show that he was of divine origin?

_Answer_. Certainly not. The rules of evidence applicable to the Bible are not applicable to other books. We examine other books in the light of reason; the Bible is the only exception. So, we should not judge of Christ as we do of any other man.

_Question_. Do you think that Christ wrought

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many of his miracles because he was good, charitable, and filled with pity?

_Answer_. Certainly

_Question_. Has he as much power now as he had when on earth?

_Answer_. Most assuredly.

_Question_. Is he as charitable and pitiful now, as he was then?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Why does he not now cure the lame and the halt and the blind?

_Answer_. It is well known that, when Julian the Apostate was dying, catching some of his own blood in his hand and throwing it into the air he exclaimed: "Galileean, thou hast conquered!"

_Question_. Do you consider it our duty to love our neighbor?

_Answer_. Certainly.

_Question_. Is virtue the same in all worlds?

_Answer_. Most assuredly.

_Question_. Are we under obligation to render good for evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Will Christians in heaven love their neighbors?

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_Answer_. Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.

_Question_. Do good Christians pity sinners in this world?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Why?

_Answer_. Because they regard them as being in great danger of the eternal wrath of God.

_Question_. After these sinners have died, and been sent to hell, will the Christians in heaven then pity them?

_Answer_. No. Angels have no pity.

_Question_. If we are under obligation to love our enemies, is not God under obligation to love his? If we forgive our enemies, ought not God to forgive his? If we forgive those who injure us, ought not God to forgive those who have not injured him?

_Answer_. God made us, and he has therefore the right to do with us as he pleases. Justice demands that he should damn all of us, and the few that he will save will be saved through mercy and without the slightest respect to anything they may have done themselves. Such is the justice of God, that those in hell will have no right to complain, and those in heaven will have no right to be there. Hell is justice, and salvation is charity.

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_Question_. Do you consider it possible for a law to be jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent person?

_Answer_. Such is the scheme of the atonement. As man is held responsible for the sin of Adam, so he will be credited with the virtues of Christ; and you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable as the other.

_Question_. Suppose a man honestly reads the New Testament, and honestly concludes that it is not an inspired book; suppose he honestly makes up his mind that the miracles are not true; that the devil never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the temple; that devils were really never cast out of a man and allowed to take refuge in swine;--I say, suppose that he is honestly convinced that these things are not true, what ought he to say?

_Answer_. He ought to say nothing.

_Question_. Suppose that the same man should read the Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not an inspired book; what ought he to say?

_Answer_. He ought to say that it is not inspired; his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per- nicious superstition.

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_Question_. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible, having become convinced that it is not inspired-- honestly convinced--says nothing--keeps his con- clusion absolutely to himself, and suppose he dies in that belief, can he be saved?

_Answer_. Certainly not.

_Question_. Has the honesty of his belief anything to do with his future condition?

_Answer_. Nothing whatever.,

_Question_. Suppose that he tried to believe, that he hated to disagree with his friends, and with his parents, but that in spite of himself he was forced to the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?

_Answer_. Certainly he would.

_Question_. Can a man control his belief?

_Answer_. He cannot--except as to the Bible.

_Question_. Do you consider it just in God to create a man who cannot believe the Bible, and then damn him because he does not?

_Answer_. Such is my belief.

_Question_. Is it your candid opinion that a man who does not believe the Bible should keep his belief a secret from his fellow-men?

_Answer_. It is.

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_Question_. How do I know that you believe the Bible? You have told me that if you did not be- lieve it, you would not tell me?

_Answer_. There is no way for you to ascertain, except by taking my word for it.

_Question_. What will be the fate of a man who does not believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?

_Answer_. He will be damned.

_Question_. Then hypocrisy will not save him?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. And if he does not believe it, and ad- mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will not save him?

_Answer_. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no better than hypocrisy on the right side.

_Question_. Do we know who wrote the gospels?

_Answer_. Yes; we do.

_Question_. Are we absolutely sure who wrote them?

_Answer_. Of course; we have the evidence as it has come to us through the Catholic Church.

_Question_. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church now?

_Answer_. No; assuredly no! But we have the testimony of Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement,

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and others of the early fathers, together with that of the Christian historian, Eusebius.

_Question_. What do we really know about Polycarp?

_Answer_. We know that he suffered martyrdom un- der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him, leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense, and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and extinguished the flames and that out of the wound flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove.

_Question_. Is that all we know about Polycarp?

_Answer_. Yes, with the exception of a few more like incidents.

_Question_. Do we know that Polycarp ever met St. John?

_Answer_. Yes; Eusebius says so.

_Question_. Are we absolutely certain that he ever lived?

_Answer_. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written about him.

_Question_. Do we know anything of the character of Eusebius?

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_Answer_. Yes; we know that he was untruthful only when he wished to do good. But God can use even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub- stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible by the most untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses were honest, anybody could believe, and what be- comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?

_Question_. Is the New Testament now the same as it was in the days of the early fathers?

_Answer_. Certainly not. Many books now thrown out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed divine by Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement and many of the early churches. These books are now called "apocryphal."

_Question_. Have you not the same witnesses in favor of their authenticity, that you have in favor of the gospels?

_Answer_. Precisely the same. Except that they were thrown out.

_Question_. Why were they thrown out?

_Answer_. Because the Catholic Church did not es- teem them inspired.

_Question_. Did the Catholics decide for us which are the true gospels and which are the true epistles?

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_Answer_. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the only church, and consequently must have been the true church.

_Question_. How did the Catholic Church select the true books?

_Answer_. Councils were called, and votes were taken, very much as we now pass resolutions in political meetings.

_Question_. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?

_Answer_. It was then, but it is not now.

_Question_. If the Catholic Church at that time had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it now be our duty to believe that book to have been inspired?

_Answer_. No, I suppose not.

_Question_. Is it not true that some of these books were adopted by exceedingly small majorities?

_Answer_. It is.

_Question_. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to the Romans, and the book of Revelation had been thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly believes the rest of the books?

_Answer_. This is doubtful.

_Question_. Were the men who picked out the in- spired books inspired?

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_Answer_. We cannot tell, but the probability is that they were.

_Question_. Do we know that they picked out the right ones?

_Answer_. Well, not exactly, but we believe that they did.

_Question_. Are we certain that some of the books that were thrown out were not inspired?

_Answer_. Well, the only way to tell is to read them carefully.

_Question_. If upon reading these apocryphal books a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he be damned for that reason?

_Answer_. No. Certainly not.

_Question_. If he concludes that some of them are inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned for that belief?

_Answer_. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for believing too much.

_Question_. Does the fact that the books now com- prising the New Testament were picked out by the Catholic Church prevent their being examined now by an honest man, as they were examined at the time they were picked out?

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_Answer_. No; not if the man comes to the con- clusion that they are inspired.

_Question_. Does the fact that the Catholic Church picked them out and declared them to be inspired, render it a crime to examine them precisely as you would examine the books that the Catholic Church threw out and declared were not inspired?

_Answer_. I think it does.

_Question_. At the time the council was held in which it was determined which of the books of the New Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted against some that were finally decided to be inspired. If they were honest in the vote they gave, and died without changing their opinions, are they now in hell?

_Answer_. Well, they ought to be.

_Question_. If those who voted to leave the book of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of Saint John out of the canon, believed honestly that these were not inspired books, how should they have voted?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as he honestly believes--except in matters of religion.

_Question_. If the Catholic Church was not infal- lible, is the question still open as to what books are, and what are not, inspired?

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_Answer_. I suppose the question is still open-- but it would be dangerous to decide it.

_Question_. If, then, I examine all the books again, and come to the conclusion that some that were thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac- cepted were not inspired, ought I to say so?

_Answer_. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your father, or calculated to interfere with your own po- litical prospects.

_Question_. Is it as great a sin to admit into the Bible books that are uninspired as to reject those that are inspired?

_Answer_. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired book, no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing too much. An excess of credulity is simply to err in the direction of salvation.

_Question_. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira- tion of the New Testament--believes it to be entirely the work of uninspired men; and suppose he also be- lieves--but not from any evidence obtained in the New Testament--that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and that he made atonement for his soul, can he then be saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?

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_Answer_. This has not yet been decided by our church, and I do not wish to venture an opinion.

_Question_. Suppose a man denies the inspiration of the Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further, that he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted; suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those who despitefully use him, and does all the good he pos- sibly can, is it your opinion that such a man will be saved?

_Answer_. No, sir. There is "none other name "given under heaven and among men," whereby a sinner can be saved but the name of Christ.

_Question_. Then it is your opinion that God would save a murderer who believed in Christ, and would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who failed to believe in him?

_Answer_. Yes; because we have the blessed promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming "fire."

_Question_. Suppose a man read the Bible care- fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that it was true, and that while examining the subject, he died; what then?

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_Answer_. I do not believe that God would allow him to examine the matter in another world, or to make up his mind in heaven. Of course, he would eternally perish.

_Question_. Could Christ now furnish evidence enough to convince every human being of the truth of the Bible?

_Answer_. Of course he could, because he is in- finite.

_Question_. Are any miracles performed now?

_Answer_. Oh, no!

_Question_. Have we any testimony, except human testimony, to substantiate any miracle?

_Answer_. Only human testimony.

_Question_. Do all men give the same force to the same evidence?

_Answer_. By no means.

_Question_. Have all honest men who have exam- ined the Bible believed it to be inspired?

_Answer_. Of course they have. Infidels are not honest.

_Question_. Could any additional evidence have been furnished?

_Answer_. With perfect ease.

_Question_. Would God allow a soul to suffer

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eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the truth of his Bible?

_Answer_. God has furnished plenty of evidence, and altogether more than was really necessary. We should read the Bible in a believing spirit.

_Question_. Are all parts of the inspired books equally true?

_Answer_. Necessarily.

_Question_. According to Saint Matthew, God promises to forgive all who will forgive others; not one word is said about believing in Christ, or believ- ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell the truth?

_Answer_. The Bible must be taken as a whole; and if other conditions are added somewhere else, then you must comply with those other conditions. Matthew may not have stated all the conditions.

_Question_. I find in another part of the New Testament, that a young man came to Christ and asked him what was necessary for him to do in order that he might inherit eternal life. Christ did not tell him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath- day; was Christ honest with that young man?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose he was.

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_Question_. You will also recollect that Zaccheus said to Christ, that where he had wronged any man he had made restitution, and further, that half his goods he had given to the poor; and you will re- member that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day "hath salvation come to thy house." Why did not Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;" that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?

_Answer_. Of course there are mysteries in our holy religion that only those who have been "born "again" can understand. You must remember that "the carnal mind is enmity with God."

_Question_. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Ser- mon on the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration," or of the "scheme of salvation"?

_Answer_. Well, it may be.

_Question_. Can a man be saved now by living exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?

_Answer_. He can not.

_Question_. Would then a man, by following the course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, lose his soul?

_Answer_. He most certainly would, because there is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word

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about believing in the Bible; not one word about the "atonement;" not one word about "regeneration." So that, if the Presbyterian Church is right, it is abso- lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the eternal condemnation of God. But we must remem- ber that the Sermon on the Mount was preached be- fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking to Jews.

_Question_. Did Christ write anything himself, in the New Testament?

_Answer_. Not a word.

_Question_. Did he tell any of his disciples to write any of his words?

_Answer_. There is no account of it, if he did.

_Question_. Do we know whether any of the dis- ciples wrote anything?

_Answer_. Of course they did.

_Question_. How do you know?

_Answer_. Because the gospels bear their names.

_Question_. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso- lutely God?

_Answer_. Of course he was. We believe that Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same, that the three form one, and that each one is three.

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_Question_. Was Christ the God of the universe at the time of his birth?

_Answer_. He certainly was.

_Question_. Was he the infinite God, creator and controller of the entire universe, before he was born?

_Answer_. Of course he was. This is the mystery of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have pretended that he was like any other child, and was in fact supported by Nature instead of being the supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like other children, he had to be cared for by his mother. Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother. It was a part of the plan that in all respects he should appear to be like other children.

_Question_. Did he know just as much before he was born as after?

_Answer_. If he was God of course he did.

_Question_. How do you account for the fact that Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis- "dom and stature"?

_Answer_. That I presume is a figure of speech; because, if he was God, he certainly could not have increased in wisdom. The physical part of him could

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increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have been infinite all the time.

_Question_. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?

_Answer_. No; I believe what Luke said. If it appears untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is figurative or symbolical.

_Question_. Did I understand you to say that Christ was actually God?

_Answer_. Of course he was.

_Question_. Then why did Luke say in the same verse of the same chapter that "Jesus increased in "favor with God"?

_Answer_. I dare you to go into a room by your- self and read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!

_Question_. Is it necessary to understand the Bible in order to be saved?

_Answer_. Certainly not; it is only necessary that you believe it.

_Question_. Is it necessary to believe all the miracles?

_Answer_. It may not be necessary, but as it is im- possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you had better believe them all.

_Question_. Then you regard belief as the safe way?

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_Answer_. Of course it is better to be fooled in this world than to be damned in the next.

_Question_. Do you think that there are any cruel- ties on God's part recorded in the Bible?

_Answer_. At first flush, many things done by God himself, as well as by his prophets, appear to be cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find them to be exactly the opposite.

_Question_. How do you explain the story of Elisha and the children,--where the two she-bears destroyed forty-two children on account of their impudence?

_Answer_. This miracle, in my judgment, estab- lishes two things: 1. That children should be polite to ministers, and 2. That God is kind to animals-- "giving them their meat in due season." These bears have been great educators--they are the foundation of the respect entertained by the young for theologians. No child ever sees a minister now without thinking of a bear.

_Question_. What do you think of the story of Daniel--you no doubt remember it? Some men told the king that Daniel was praying contrary to law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of lions; but the lions could not touch him, their mouths having been shut by angels. The next

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morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still intact, had him taken out; and then, for the purpose of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men who had made the complaint against Daniel, and their wives and their little children, brought and cast into the lions' den. According to the account, the lions were so hungry that they caught these wives and children as they dropped, and broke all their bones in pieces before they had even touched the ground. Is it not wonderful that God failed to pro- tect these innocent wives and children?

_Answer_. These wives and children were heathen; they were totally depraved. And besides, they were used as witnesses. The fact that they were devoured with such quickness shows that the lions were hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would have accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying that the lions had been fed.

_Question_. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace "heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to "be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their "hosen and their hats," and that when they came out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was "the smell of fire upon their garments"?

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_Answer_. The evidence of this miracle is exceed- ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of Nebuchadnezzar.

_Question_. How do you know he was converted?

_Answer_. Because immediately after the miracle the king issued a decree that "every people, nation "and language that spoke anything amiss against "the God of Shadrach and Company, should be cut "in pieces." This decree shows that he had become a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.

_Question_. If God in those days preserved from the fury of the fire men who were true to him and would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?

_Answer_. This is one of the divine mysteries. God has in many instances allowed his enemies to kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed for the good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar- tyrs might convert them.

_Question_. Do you believe all the miracles?

_Answer_. I believe them all, because I believe the Bible to be inspired.

_Question_. What makes you think it is inspired?

_Answer_. I have never seen anybody who knew it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.

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_Question_. Have you any other reasons for be- lieving it to be inspired?

_Answer_. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible printed than of any other book; and it is printed in more languages. And besides, it would be impossible to get along without it.

_Question_. Why could we not get along without it?

_Answer_. We would have nothing to swear wit- nesses by; no book in which to keep the family record; nothing for the centre-table, and nothing for a mother to give her son. No nation can be civilized without the Bible.

_Question_. Did God always know that a Bible was necessary to civilize a country?

_Answer_. Certainly he did.

_Question_. Why did he not give a Bible to the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the Romans?

_Answer_. It is astonishing what perfect fools in- fidels are.

_Question_. Why do you call infidels "fools"?

_Answer_. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who- "soever shall say 'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of "hell fire."

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_Question_. Have I the right to read the Bible?

_Answer_. Yes. You not only have the right, but it is your duty.

_Question_. In reading the Bible the words make certain impressions on my mind. These impressions depend upon my brain,--upon my intelligence. Is not this true?

_Answer_. Of course, when you read the Bible, im- pressions are made upon your mind.

_Question_. Can I control these impressions?

_Answer_. I do not think you can, as long as you remain in a sinful state.

_Question_. How am I to get out of this sinful state?

_Answer_. You must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you must read the Bible in a prayerful spirit and with a believing heart.

_Question_. Suppose that doubts force themselves upon my mind?

_Answer_. Then you will know that you are a sin- ner, and that you are depraved.

_Question_. If I have the right to read the Bible, have I the right to try to understand it?

_Answer_. Most assuredly.

_Question_. Do you admit that I have the right to reason about it and to investigate it?

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_Answer_. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can- not help reasoning about what you read.

_Question_. Does the right to read a book include the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what the book contains?

_Answer_. Of course,--if the book is not inspired. Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and Christians know that it is inspired because infidels say that it is not.

_Question_. Have I the right to decide for myself whether or not the book is inspired?

_Answer_. You have no right to deny the truth of God's Holy Word.

_Question_. Is God the author of all books?

_Answer_. Certainly not.

_Question_. Have I the right to say that God did not write the Koran?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Why?

_Answer_. Because the Koran was written by an impostor.

_Question_. How do you know?

_Answer_. My reason tells me so.

_Question_. Have you the right to be guided by your reason?

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_Answer_. I must be.

_Question_. Have you the same right to follow your reason after reading the Bible?

_Answer_. No. The Bible is the standard of reason. The Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured by the Bible. The Bible is different from other books and must not be read in the same critical spirit, nor judged by the same standard.

_Question_. What did God give us reason for?

_Answer_. So that we might investigate other religions, and examine other so-called sacred books.

_Question_. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible is not inspired, what should he say?

_Answer_. He should admit that he is mistaken.

_Question_. When he thinks he is right?

_Answer_. Yes. The Bible is different from other books. It is the master of reason. You read the Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see whether your reason is right. It is the only book about which a man has no right to reason. He must believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason, but to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let "him hear."

_Question_. Do you think we have the right to tell

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what the Bible means--what ideas God intended to convey, or has conveyed to us, through the medium of the Bible?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose you have that right. Yes, that must be your duty. You certainly ought to tell others what God has said to you.

_Question_. Do all men get the same ideas from the Bible?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. How do you account for that?

_Answer_. Because all men are not alike; they differ in intellect, in education, and in experience.

_Question_. Who has the right to decide as to the real ideas that God intended to convey?

_Answer_. I am a Protestant, and believe in the right of private judgment. Whoever does not is a Catholic. Each man must be his own judge, but God will hold him responsible.

_Question_. Does God believe in the right of private judgment?

_Answer_. Of course he does.

_Question_. Is he willing that I should exercise my judgment in deciding whether the Bible is inspired or not?

_Answer_. No. He believes in the exercise of

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private judgment only in the examination and rejec- tion of other books than the Bible.

_Question_. Is he a Catholic?

_Answer_. I cannot answer blasphemy! Let me tell you that God will "laugh at your calamity, and "will mock when your fear cometh." You will be accursed.

_Question_. Why do you curse infidels?

_Answer_. Because I am a Christian.

_Question_. Did not Christ say that we ought to "bless those who curse us," and that we should "love our enemies"?

_Answer_. Yes, but he cursed the Pharisees and called them "hypocrites" and "vipers."

_Question_. How do you account for that?

_Answer_. It simply shows the difference between theory and practice.

_Question_. What do you consider the best way to answer infidels.

_Answer_. The old way is the best. You should say that their arguments are ancient, and have been answered over and over again. If this does not satisfy your hearers, then you should attack the character of the infidel--then that of his parents-- then that of his children.

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_Question_. Suppose that the infidel is a good man, how will you answer him then?

_Answer_. But an infidel cannot be a good man. Even if he is, it is better that he should lose his reputation, than that thousands should lose their souls. We know that all infidels are vile and infa- mous. We may not have the evidence, but we know that it exists.

_Question_. How should infidels be treated? Should Christians try to convert them?

_Answer_. Christians should have nothing to do with infidels. It is not safe even to converse with them. They are always talking about reason, and facts, and experience. They are filled with sophistry and should be avoided.

_Question_. Should Christians pray for the con- version of infidels?

_Answer_. Yes; but such prayers should be made in public and the name of the infidel should be given and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the young may be warned.

_Question_. Whom do you regard as infidels?

_Answer_. The scientists--the geologists, the as- tronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one can overestimate the evil that has been wrought

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by Laplace, Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel, Renan, Emerson, Strauss, Bikhner, Tyndall, and their wretched followers. These men pretended to know more than Moses and the prophets. They were "dogs baying at the moon." They were "wolves" and "fools." They tried to "assassinate "God," and worse than all, they actually laughed at the clergy,

_Question_. Do you think they did, and are doing great harm?

_Answer_. Certainly. Of what use are all the sciences, if you lose your own soul? People in hell will care nothing about education. The rich man said nothing about science, he wanted water. Neither will they care about books and theories in heaven. If a man is perfectly happy, it makes no difference how ignorant he is.

_Question_. But how can he answer these scientists?

_Answer_. Well, my advice is to let their argu- ments alone. Of course, you will deny all their facts; but the most effective way is to attack their character.

_Question_. But suppose they are good men,-- what then?

_Answer_. The better they are, the worse they are.

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We cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He may appear to be good, and it is our duty to strip the mask of appearance from the face of unbelief. If a man is not a Christian, he is totally depraved, and why should we hesitate to make a misstatement about a man whom God is going to make miserable forever?

_Question_. Are we not commanded to love our enemies?

_Answer_. Yes, but not the enemies of God.

_Question_. Do you fear the final triumph of infi- delity?

_Answer_. No. We have no fear. We believe that the Bible can be revised often enough to agree with anything that may really be necessary to the preservation of the church. We can always rely upon revision. Let me tell you that the Bible is the most peculiar of books. At the time God inspired his holy prophets to write it, he knew exactly what the discoveries and demonstrations of the future would be, and he wrote his Bible in such a way that the words could always be interpreted in accordance with the intelligence of each age, and so that the words used are capable of several meanings, so that, no matter what may hereafter be discovered, the Bible

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will be found to agree with it,--for the reason that the knowledge of Hebrew will grow in the exact proportion that discoveries are made in other depart- ments of knowledge. You will therefore see, that all efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible will simply result in giving a better translation.

_Question_. What do you consider is the strongest argument in favor of the inspiration of the Scrip- tures?

_Answer_. The dying words of Christians.

_Question_. What do you consider the strongest argument against the truth of infidelity?

_Answer_. The dying words of infidels. You know how terrible were the death-bed scenes of Hume, Voltaire, Paine and Hobbes, as described by hundreds of persons who were not present; while all Christians have died with the utmost serenity, and with their last words have testified to the sustaining power of faith in the goodness of God.

_Question_. What were the last words of Jesus Christ?

_Answer_. "My God, my God, why hast thou for- "saken me?"

A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.

_"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead."--Thomas Paine._

Peoria, October 8, 1877.

To the Editor of the N Y. Observer:

Sir: Last June in San Francisco, I offered a thousand dollars in gold--not as a wager, but as a gift--to any one who would substantiate the absurd story that Thomas Paine died in agony and fear, frightened by the clanking chains of devils. I also offered the same amount to any minister who would prove that Voltaire did not pass away as serenely as the coming of the dawn. Afterward I was informed that you had accepted the offer, and had called upon me to deposit the money. Acting upon this inform- ation, I sent you the following letter:

Peoria, Ill., August 31st, 1877.

To the Editor of the New York Observer:

I have been informed that you accepted, in your paper, an offer made by me to any clergyman in San Francisco. That offer was, that I would pay

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one thousand dollars in gold to any minister in that city who would prove that Thomas Paine died in terror because of religious opinions he had ex- pressed, or that Voltaire did not pass away serenely as the coming of the dawn.

For many years religious journals and ministers have been circulating certain pretended accounts of the frightful agonies endured by Paine and Voltaire when dying; that these great men at the moment of death were terrified because they had given their honest opinions upon the subject of religion to their fellow-men. The imagination of the religious world has been taxed to the utmost in inventing absurd and infamous accounts of the last moments of these intellectual giants. Every Sunday school paper, thousands of idiotic tracts, and countless stupidities called sermons, have been filled with these calumnies.

Paine and Voltaire both believed in God--both hoped for immortality--both believed in special providence. But both denied the inspiration of the Scriptures--both denied the divinity of Jesus Christ. While theologians most cheerfully admit that most murderers die without fear, they deny the possibility of any man who has expressed his disbelief in the inspiration of the Bible dying except in an agony of terror. These stories are used in revivals and in

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Sunday schools, and have long been considered of great value.

I am anxious that these slanders shall cease. I am desirous of seeing justice done, even at this late day, to the dead.

For the purpose of ascertaining the evidence upon which these death-bed accounts really rest, I make to you the following proposition:--

First.--As to Thomas Paine: I will deposit with the First National Bank of Peoria, Illinois, one thou- sand dollars in gold, upon the following conditions: This money shall be subject to your order when you shall, in the manner hereinafter provided, sub- stantiate that Thomas Paine admitted the Bible to be an inspired book, or that he recanted his Infidel opinions--or that he died regretting that he had dis- believed the Bible--or that he died calling upon Jesus Christ in any religious sense whatever.

In order that a tribunal may be created to try this question, you may select one man, I will select another, and the two thus chosen shall select a third, and any two of the three may decide the matter.

As there will be certain costs and expenditures on both sides, such costs and expenditures shall be paid by the defeated party.

In addition to the one thousand dollars in gold, I

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will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security in the sum of two thousand dollars, conditioned for the payment of all costs in case I am defeated. I shall require of you a like bond.

From the date of accepting this offer you may have ninety days to collect and present your testi- mony, giving me notice of time and place of taking depositions. I shall have a like time to take evi- dence upon my side, giving you like notice, and you shall then have thirty days to take further testimony in reply to what I may offer. The case shall then be argued before the persons chosen; and their decisions shall be final as to us.

If the arbitrator chosen by me shall die, I shall have the right to choose another. You shall have the same right. If the third one, chosen by our two, shall die, the two shall choose another; and all va- cancies, from whatever cause, shall be filled upon the same principle.

The arbitrators shall sit when and where a major- ity shall determine, and shall have full power to pass upon all questions arising as to competency of evidence, and upon all subjects.

_Second_.--As to Voltaire: I make the same prop- osition, if you will substantiate that Voltaire died expressing remorse or showing in any way that he

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was in mental agony because he had attacked Catholi- cism--or because he had denied the inspiration of the Bible--or because he had denied the divinity of Christ.

I make these propositions because I want you to stop slandering the dead.

If the propositions do not suit you in any particu- lar, please state your objections, and I will modify them in any way consistent with the object in view.

If Paine and Voltaire died filled with childish and silly fear, I want to know it, and I want the world to know it. On the other hand, if the believers in superstition have made and circulated these cruel slanders concerning the mighty dead, I want the world to know that.

As soon as you notify me of the acceptance of these propositions I will send you the certificate of the bank that the money has been deposited upon the foregoing conditions, together with copies of bonds for costs. Yours truly,

R. G. Ingersoll.

In your paper of September 27, 1877, you acknowl- edge the receipt of the foregoing letter, and after giving an outline of its contents, say: "As not one of the affirmations, in the form stated in this letter, was contained in the offer we made, we have no occasion to substantiate them. But we are prepared

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to produce the evidence of the truth of our own statement, and even to go further; to show not only that Tom Paine 'died a drunken, cowardly, and beastly death,' but that for many years previous, and up to that event he lived a drunken and beastly life." In order to refresh your memory as to what you had published, I call your attention to the following, which appeared in the N. Y. Observer, July 19, 1877: "Put Down the Money.

"Col. Bob Ingersoll, in a speech full of ribaldry and blasphemy, made in San Francisco recently, said: "I will give $1,000 in gold coin to any clergyman who can substantiate that the death of Voltaire was not as peaceful as the dawn; and of Tom Paine whom they assert died in fear and agony, frightened by the clanking chains of devils--in fact frightened to death by God. I will give $1,000 likewise to any one who can substantiate this 'absurd story'--a story without a word of truth in it."

"We have published the testimony, and the wit- nesses are on hand to prove that Tom Paine died a drunken, cowardly and beastly death. Let the Colo- nel deposit the money with any honest man, and the absurd story, as he terms it, shall be shown to be an ower true tale. But he wont do it. His talk is Infi- del 'buncombe' and nothing more."

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On the 31st of August I sent you my letter, and on the 27th of September you say in your paper: "As not one of the affirmations in the form stated in this letter was contained in the offer we made, we have no occasion to substantiate them."

What were the affirmations contained in the offer you made? I had offered a thousand dollars in gold to any one who would substantiate "the absurd story" that Thomas Paine died in fear and agony,frightened by the clanking chains of devils--in fact, frightened to death by God.

In response to this offer you said: "Let the Colo- nel deposit the money with an honest man and the 'absurd story' as he terms it, shall be shown to be an 'ower true tale.' But he won't do it. His talk is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more."

Did you not offer to prove that Paine died in fear and agony, frightened by the clanking chains of devils? Did you not ask me to deposit the money that you might prove the "absurd story" to be an "ower true tale" and obtain the money? Did you not in your paper of the twenty-seventh of September in effect deny that you had offered to prove this "absurd story"? As soon as I offered to deposit the gold and give bonds besides to cover costs, did you not publish a falsehood?

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You have eaten your own words, and, for my part, I would rather have dined with Ezekiel than with you.

You have not met the issue. You have know- ingly avoided it. The question was not as to the personal habits of Paine. The real question was and is, whether Paine was filled with fear and horror at the time of his death on account of his religious opinions. That is the question. You avoid this. In effect, you abandon that charge and make others.

To you belongs the honor of having made the most cruel and infamous charges against Thomas Paine that have ever been made. Of what you have said you cannot prove the truth of one word.

You say that Thomas Paine died a drunken, cowardly and beastly death.

I pronounce this charge to be a cowardly and beastly falsehood.

Have you any evidence that he was in a drunken condition when he died?

What did he say or do of a cowardly character just before, or at about the time of his death?