Chapter XVII: Front Matter (17)

It can be testified to and ascertained that all Security Police offices, especially where an action of this kind was involved, could have only one leader and that was the local leader. But if, Mr. Prosecutor, you would give me again the opportunity of defining my position to these witnesses’ statements more comprehensively through my defense counsel I could come back to this matter properly.

COL. AMEN: And now, Defendant, I want to refer you to Document 3819-PS, which is already in evidence as GB-306, which are notes of a conference in the Reich Chancellery on 11 July 1944, signed by Lammers and the subject of testimony before this Tribunal the other day. You recall having attended that meeting I presume.

[_The document was submitted to the defendant._]

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know yet. I do not know the purpose of that meeting.

COL. AMEN: You do not deny that you were there, do you?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know. This is the first time I have seen this document.

COL. AMEN: Now, look at Page 12, in the middle of the page, the sentence there, “In Paris, the evacuation of which was considered...”

DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, may I ask for clarification of the question, whether it might have been more appropriate and correct if the Prosecution had questioned Lammers about this matter when Lammers was here on the witness stand.

THE PRESIDENT: Was this put to Lammers?

COL. AMEN: Frankly, Your Lordship, I do not know. The document was introduced and identified, and I am not sure whether he was asked about it or not. Sir David says that he introduced the document with Keitel, at the foot of Page 9.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well, go on.

COL. AMEN: Have you found the place, Defendant?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I have found the place.

COL. AMEN: “In Paris, the evacuation of which was considered, 100,000 to 200,000 workers could be recruited. In this connection...”

KALTENBRUNNER: No, Mr. Prosecutor, I have not found the place.

COL. AMEN: Well, it is just above the paragraph which commences, “The Chief of the Security Police, Dr. Kaltenbrunner.” Can you find that spot?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I have it now.

COL. AMEN: Well, passing to that sentence:

“The Chief of the Security Police, Dr. Kaltenbrunner, declared
himself willing, when asked by the Plenipotentiary General for
the Allocation of Labor, to place the Security Police at his
disposal for this purpose, but pointed out their numerical
weakness. For the whole of France he had only 2,400 men
available. It was questionable whether entire age groups could
be recruited with these weak forces. In his opinion, the Foreign
Office must exercise a stronger influence on the foreign
governments.”

Is that a true reflection of what took place at that meeting, Defendant?

KALTENBRUNNER: I cannot say that concerning the wording of the document, but I might say in explanation that according to the introduction on Page 1 it was a “Chefbesprechung” (discussion of chiefs), and that does not mean me, for I was Chief of the Reich Security Main Office. “Chefbesprechung” means the ministries and the chief Reich departments.

By questioning the witness Lammers it would have to be determined whether I was there on the orders of the Ministry of the Interior and Chief of the German Police, Himmler. That would have been possible. That I was there on the instruction of Himmler seems to become evident for me from the number mentioned. It mentions here that only 2,400 men were at our disposal. Neither the Security Police nor the SD, nor both together, ever had any number like that at their disposal. It must have included all the forces, even the Order Police and other small organizations, which were subordinate to Himmler.

Therefore, one thing, at least, is missing in this document; that is the explanation that Kaltenbrunner, on orders of Himmler, was giving Himmler’s views; that at least is missing. But by questioning the witness Dr. Lammers, I am sure we can clarify this matter.

In any case, I would like to point out that it was my opinion that I could not be helpful in this matter because, first of all, negotiations between the Foreign Office and the competent foreign—that is, the French Government, were necessary. Measures to be taken there could not be introduced without the consent of the French Government.

COL. AMEN: All right, Defendant. Now, do you recall evidence given before this Tribunal about efforts made by Germany to incite the Slovaks to revolt against Czechoslovakia and that Hitler used the insurgency of the Slovakians as one of the excuses for occupying Czechoslovakia in March of 1939?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know who testified to that.

COL. AMEN: Well, in any event, during the year 1938 to 1939 it is a fact, is it not, that you were the State Secretary for Security in Austria? Is that right?

KALTENBRUNNER: No, I was not State Secretary for the Security Police. I was State Secretary for the security system of the Austrian Government at Vienna, and there is an essential difference, because the Security Police in Austria was instituted and directed from Berlin.

COL. AMEN: Well, all right.

KALTENBRUNNER: And in Austria I had not the slightest influence—nor even my Minister—on the Security Police.

COL. AMEN: When did you become Supreme SS and Police Leader for Upper Austria with your headquarters in Germany?

KALTENBRUNNER: That is a complete misstatement. In Upper Austria there was no Supreme SS and Police Leader, only in Austria.

COL. AMEN: Well, when was it?

KALTENBRUNNER: That was after the liquidation of the Austrian Government and after its affairs had been settled; that can be verified exactly from the _Reichsgesetzblatt_. It was probably in the summer of 1941.

COL. AMEN: And is it not a fact that you, yourself, directed the activity of the Slovakian rebels and assisted them with explosives and ammunition? Answer that “yes” or “no,” please.

KALTENBRUNNER: No.

COL. AMEN: Do you recall having participated in any conference with respect to a plan for instigating this revolt of Slovakia?

KALTENBRUNNER: It is not correct; I did not participate in instigating anything like that in Slovakia. I did take part in the first Government conferences in Slovakia and in the presence of the Delegate of the German Reich.

COL. AMEN: Did your friend Spacil assist you in carrying out these plans?

KALTENBRUNNER: That I cannot recall today. In any case, they were not German plans. If you investigate the political situation in Slovakia at that time, you will clearly see that it did not need any instigation on the part of the German Reich. The Hlinka movement then under the leadership of Dr. Tuka and also of Dr. Tiso, I believe, had made this decision a long time ago.

COL. AMEN: Were you acquainted with Obersturmbannführer Fritz Mundhenke?

KALTENBRUNNER: I did not quite catch the name.

COL. AMEN: Well, you will see it on this exhibit which I ask you to be shown now, Document Number 3942-PS, which will become Exhibit Number USA-805.

[_The document was submitted to the defendant._]

Defendant, this is a fairly long exhibit, which I do not want to go through in detail; but I first call your attention to the opening lines:

“With respect to the occupation of Czechoslovakia, I recall that
there were two different actions taken: the first one for the
occupation of the Sudetenland and the border districts inhabited
by German nationals; the second one for the occupation of
Czechoslovakia proper....”

And the following lines:

“Some time before the second action, officers of Hlinka Guard
(the illegal organization resembling the SS in the Slovakian
part of Czechoslovakia) came to the office of SS Corps Area
Danube, which at the time may still have had its original name
of SS Oberabschnitt Österreich.”

Then follow the details of the plans for inciting this revolt. Then, coming to the end of the first paragraph, you will find the following:

“There were secret meetings to which I was not invited. I felt
that I was not fully trusted. I saw the gentlemen only in
Kaltenbrunner’s anteroom and, as far as I can remember, in the
dining room. I was told nothing about the object of the
discussions which referred, without doubt, to the imminent
action.”

Then he gives his reasons. And, passing to the second page, in the center, you will find the following:

“Kaltenbrunner alone was responsible for this action. In charge
of the action was SS Standartenführer Spacil (nicknamed Spatz)
as far as the General SS is concerned. He was chief of the
administration of SS Corps Area Danube and was called later on
by Kaltenbrunner to Berlin and made administration chief at the
Reich Security Main Office. Spacil was one of Kaltenbrunner’s
most intimate friends.”

Then, at the close, Paragraph 1 and 2, and subdivisions:

“I have made this statement:

“(1) Not from a feeling of revenge or because I want to be an
informer, but in the knowledge that in so doing I can serve in
detecting crimes which I, as a German, am ashamed of;

“(2) With the full consciousness that because of my statements I
will be slandered by the other side. I know the men who for
years have been after me. But this shall not deter me from
helping the spirit of justice to a victorious end.”

I ask you whether the substance of that document, as I have given it to you, is true or false?

KALTENBRUNNER: Neither true or false; it is ridiculous and consequently untrue. The document can best be characterized by drawing attention to the fact that on the first page in the introduction it says:

“...the second one for the occupation of Czechoslovakia proper
(called afterwards the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia and the
Slovakian State).”

The fact that the Republic of Slovakia has never, in the course of history, been occupied by the German Reich is sufficient to reveal the ignorance of this witness, Mundhenke, who comes from North Germany and knows nothing about history or about politics. But this document contains so many details which can be clarified almost humorously that it becomes utterly worthless.

I would like to call your attention to Page 3 of the German text and explain to you who were the men responsible for the individual big political actions which led to the occupation of Czechoslovakia.

The first is a Franz Kourik who was a chauffeur. The second is Karl Spitt also a chauffeur. The third is an SS man whose name is Apfelbeck, son of an innkeeper and a butcher by trade, and who worked as an assistant official in the administration after he had suffered a grave skull injury in a motor accident. Stadler, a small bookkeeper, and the man Petenka are unknown to me.

These men are supposed to have prepared, with me, the occupation of Slovakia by the Reich. That is utter nonsense. Excuse me for calling it so, Mr. Prosecutor, but it is and remains...

COL. AMEN: Very good, Defendant. All right. That is nonsense.

KALTENBRUNNER: One thing is true in this document and I want to come to that. I was with members of the Hlinka Guard in this house in Vienna, Park Ring 8, and I did hold a conference with them. This dealt with the union of the group of racial Germans in Slovakia and the Hlinka Guard, with a view to nominating joint candidates in the Slovakian Government. Documents prove it and files, in Pressburg at least, where my name was sufficiently known. Everybody knows, it there and can confirm it, including this man Mundhenke, the leader of the racial group. But as an occupation of Slovakia never took place at all, in my opinion there is no need for me to defend myself against this accusation.

COL. AMEN: Defendant, in the course of this Trial the order of Himmler to the effect that the civilian population should not be punished for lynching Allied airmen has been introduced in evidence, and you have heard the sworn statement of Schellenberg and Gerdes to the effect that you, in your capacity as Chief of the Security Police and SD, issued such instructions to your subordinates. Do you deny these statements? “Yes” or “no,” please.

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not wish to deny them, but I emphatically state that I never gave any such instructions, and I ask the Tribunal to allow my counsel to read the paper which I gave to him at the beginning of the session. This contains literally the testimony of the witness Koller, the Chief of Staff of the Luftwaffe, defining my general attitude towards this problem—that even in the presence of Hitler I declared, “I will not obey such an order.” That took place somewhat later, but it shows my own personal feelings about the matter. I made a statement to my counsel already yesterday about this question.

COL. AMEN: All right, Defendant; now take a look at Document Number 3855-PS, which will become Exhibit Number USA-806. This bears your own name at the bottom, whether it be a signature, facsimile, or anything else you choose to call it. Have you the document before you?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: You will note that it comes from the Chief of the Security Police and of the SD, and according to the notes in the upper left-hand portion was prepared for your signature by Amt IV A 2 B, Number 220/44 g RS.

KALTENBRUNNER: That is, Mr. Prosecutor, the first and a very grave mistake.

COL. AMEN: All right.

“a) To all commanders and inspectors of the Security Police and
the SD (for oral communication to the subordinated offices);

“b) To Groups IV A and IV B, Sections IV A 1, IV A 3, IV A 4 -
IV A 6, IV B 1 - IV B 4;

“c) To Office V, Reich Criminal Police Office, for information
to the Higher SS and Police Leaders, to the Chief of the Under
Police;

“d) To Chiefs of Offices I-III and IV of the Reich Security Main
Office.

“Subject: Treatment of enemy airmen who have bailed out.

“Reference: none.

“A series of questions dealing with the treatment of enemy
airmen who have been shot down needs clarification:

“I. As a general rule captured enemy airmen are to be shackled.
This measure is necessary and is made with the full consent of
the Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces; a) in order
to prevent frequent escapes, and b) in view of the severe
shortage of personnel at the collecting stations.

“II. Enemy air crews, who a) offer resistance when captured, or
b) wear civilian clothes under their uniforms are to be shot at
once when captured.

“III. Most enemy airmen, especially of the Anglo-American air
forces, carry with them escape bags filled with daggers, various
kinds of maps, ration coupons, tools for escape, _et cetera_.

“It is absolutely necessary that escape bags be secured by the
Police, as they are of the greatest assistance when making a
search. They must be given to the Luftwaffe.

“IV. The order of the Reichsführer SS of 10 August 1943”—which
I believe you also testified you know nothing about—“is not
being carried out in full, as it has probably not been passed on
orally, as ordered, to the subordinate police offices.

“It is therefore repeated: It is not the duty of the police to
interfere in conflicts between the Germans and English and
American ‘terror-fliers’ who have bailed out.

“V. Near the body of an English airman who had been shot down a
brassard with the inscription ‘Deutsche Wehrmacht’ and an
official stamp was found. This brassard is only worn by combat
troops, and it gives the bearer access to all military and
strategically important points in the various operation zones.
Parachuted enemy agents will probably make use of this new means
of camouflage.

“VI. During the past months individual cases have shown that the
German population does seize enemy airmen but afterwards, while
waiting for them to be handed over to the police or the Armed
Forces, it does not use the proper restraint. Too strict
measures on the part of the State Police against these citizens
would keep them from seizing enemy airmen without restraint,
since these cases must not be confused with the criminal act of
helping escaped enemy airmen.

“Reichsführer SS has ordered the following measures to be
applied to citizens who conduct themselves in a dishonorable
manner towards captured enemy airmen either out of bad
intentions or misunderstood pity:

“1) In especially severe cases, transfer to a concentration
camp; announcement in the newspapers of the district.

“2) In less severe cases, protective custody for not less than
14 days at the competent State Police office; employment in the
clearing of damaged areas. Should there be no damaged area
affording such employment within the jurisdiction of one State
Police office, the short-term protective custody sentence is to
be served at the nearest State Police office, _et cetera_.

“The Reichsführer SS has contacted Reichsleiter Bormann in this
matter and has pointed out that it is the duty of the Party
officials to instruct the population to observe absolutely
necessary restraint towards enemy airmen.

“3) I leave it to the commanders and inspectors of the Security
Police, and the SD to notify in writing the subordinated offices
of Sections V and VI of the above decree.

“Signed: Dr. Kaltenbrunner; Certified: Rose, office clerk.”

Do you deny having had anything to do with the issuance of that document? Do you deny that you signed it?

KALTENBRUNNER: This order was never submitted to me. I refer you to what I said yesterday concerning questions of direction and issuing of orders in the Secret Police office, Amt IV A which appears at the head of the letter indicating that it formulated it. In these matters this Amt was directly subordinated to Himmler.

THE PRESIDENT: I have not heard the answer to the question. Did you sign it?

KALTENBRUNNER: No.

COL. AMEN: You deny your signature and you deny knowing anything about this document bearing your name, is that correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: Mr. Prosecutor, I have...

COL. AMEN: Will you answer that, Defendant? You deny this document just like you have denied every other document that has been shown to you today, is that correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: I already stated yesterday, and also told my defense counsel, that these documents were never submitted to me. I should know it today. To a certain degree I am to blame for not having paid more attention as to whether such orders were issued in my name. I never denied yesterday that I was partly to blame in this respect but my position to this question can be clearly seen from Koller’s testimony.

THE PRESIDENT: I do not understand. Are you saying that the signature on the document is not yours, or that you may have signed it without looking at the decree? Which are you saying?

KALTENBRUNNER: Your Lordship, this document and this decree were never submitted to me. To sign such a document would have been completely against my inner attitude towards the entire problem. My attitude in this matter can be seen from Koller’s testimony.

THE PRESIDENT: I am not asking you what your inner attitude is. I am asking you whether the name on it is written by your hand.

KALTENBRUNNER: No.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to look at the document.

COL. AMEN: It is a typewritten signature, Your Lordship.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes; let us look at the document.

Defendant, who is Rose?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know, Your Lordship.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, can you give any idea how long you will be with your cross-examination?

COL. AMEN: Perhaps half an hour, depending on the answers of the defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Then the Tribunal will adjourn. We will sit tomorrow at 10 o’clock to continue this part of the case, and will adjourn at half past 12 in order to hear Dr. Thoma and the Prosecution upon his documents.

[_The Tribunal adjourned until 13 April 1946 at 1000 hours._]

ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTH DAY
Saturday, 13 April 1946

_Morning Session_

COL. AMEN: Defendant, as I recall, you have testified that you had no knowledge of the Hitler Commando Order of 8 October ’42 until some time in 1945. Is that not correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not think that I said so. I believe that concerns the order...

COL. AMEN: Well, that was your testimony yesterday, according to the record, that you had no knowledge of the Hitler Commando Order of 8 October ’42 until some time in the year 1945. Is that not correct? Is that not now your position?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not believe that I made such an answer. The order is...

COL. AMEN: Well, what is the fact? When did you first have knowledge of the Hitler Commando Order of 8 October 1942? I am speaking of the order of 18 October ’42, not 8. When did you first have knowledge of that?

KALTENBRUNNER: I cannot tell you that now, exactly.

COL. AMEN: All right.

KALTENBRUNNER: In any case, this order, if it were read to me, would probably be the same one which appeared in a Wehrmacht report or in the press.

COL. AMEN: All right. And you have also denied the testimony of your own witness, Mildner, concerning the existence of a decree issued in July or August ’44, under which the Security Police were to execute members of Allied commando groups after questioning them. That is correct, is it not?

KALTENBRUNNER: I was never asked about that.

COL. AMEN: Well, I beg your pardon; but never mind, anyway. I will show you Document Number 535-PS, which will become Exhibit USA-807; and, before anything else, I want to ask you whether it is your own signature, in your own handwriting, that appears at the bottom of that document.

[_The document was submitted to the defendant._]

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes. That is my signature.

COL. AMEN: Oh, it is your signature, is it?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: You admit that? Is that right?

KALTENBRUNNER: That is my signature, yes.

COL. AMEN: Now, when you were interrogated before this Trial, you denied that that was your signature, did you not?

KALTENBRUNNER: No, I do not believe so.

COL. AMEN: Well, I will read you your testimony on that point, to see whether that helps you to remember whether you denied it or not.

“Answer: ‘From that it can only be seen that the Wehrmacht
intended to write a letter to me; whether rightly or wrongly,
and whether I was the right authority to write to is very
questionable. In any case, the Wehrmacht wanted to get in touch
with the Gestapo, as can be seen from this exchange of letters,
and I am convinced that an officer of the Gestapo, namely, the
one mentioned at the beginning of the letter, is the one who
wrote this document.’

“Question: ‘Well, this is the letter that you know nothing
about, but which, nevertheless, established just how you
accomplished your desires by writing to the Supreme Command of
the Armed Forces. That is very clear.’

“Answer: ‘But I deny that I wrote this letter.’

“Question: ‘Just a moment ago, you didn’t know about it, but now
you deny it?’

“Answer: ‘I not only did not know about the Hitler Order, but I
also knew nothing about this letter.’

“Question: ‘But you acknowledged your signature?’

“Answer: ‘I did not say that this is my signature. I only said
it resembles my signature; and I also said it is possible that
it is only a facsimile. I cannot recall a letter of such
contents signed by me.’

“Question: ‘Would it be any more convincing to you if you saw
the original letter, signed in ink?’

“Answer: ‘It would certainly be more convincing, but it still
would not prove that I signed in ink.’”

Did you make those answers to those questions, Defendant?

KALTENBRUNNER: Naturally, I do not remember whether I made these answers literally. But, I would like to make the following remarks to you. Questions concerning my signature have naturally always been put to me hundreds of times during interrogations, especially to confuse me. Today—I believe this is the first time I have seen this document—I immediately declared, “Yes, this is my signature.” I certainly know my own signature; I can recognize it. However, you have also shown me signatures which certainly were not mine.

Besides, you can see from the date of the letter, 23 January 1945, that it is correct that I learned about it in 1945, as you have already stated. I could not have the faintest notion of a Hitler order issued in the year ’42. And if, in your interrogation which you just read to me, I stated that I did not write this letter, then this is confirmed by the very figures which appear on top, where you read IV A 2 a, plus numerals and letters which obviously indicates that the letter was written in a section which was in charge of these matters.

That is what I mean when I say that I did not write this letter. That it may have been submitted to me for my signature among thousands of other papers which I might have had to look into possibly in the course of one day, I cannot, of course, deny. From this, however, you cannot draw the conclusion that I undoubtedly knew about the matter. You cannot imagine the extent of the official functions which I took over in complete ignorance of police background, without instructions for carrying out police functions, but rather for organizing and directing the vast intelligence service.

THE PRESIDENT: Answer questions and do not make speeches.

COL. AMEN: Defendant, is not the signature on that document before you, Document Number 535-PS, USA-807, precisely the same and identical with your signature as it appears on Document Number 3803-PS, USA-802? Just look at the two signatures, and tell the Tribunal if they are not identical.

KALTENBRUNNER: No, I never signed in that way. I always signed, “Dr. K.,” as on this document, even in informal letters.

COL. AMEN: How about the handwriting? Does that look the same to you, Defendant, or does it look different?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, certainly there is a kind of resemblance, but I think it has happened to every person in this courtroom that in his absence any one of his assistants at times signed a particularly urgent letter using his name.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, the Tribunal will be able to see the signatures and judge for themselves.

COL. AMEN: Very good, Sir.

Now, do you have the exhibit before you, 535-PS?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: You will note that that emanates from IV A 2 a, as appears in the upper corner under Chief of the Security Police and of the SD.

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, and at the beginning you said the letter was written by me.

COL. AMEN: That it is addressed to the High Command of the Armed Forces, right?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: And that it refers to the Führer Order of 18 October ’42, as well as to the other Führer orders referred to in the testimony of Mildner, namely, the Führer orders of 18 August ’44 and 30 July ’44, correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: I did not know that Mildner testified on this point. Such a statement is not known to me, nor has it been submitted to me. But, I believe, it proves...

COL. AMEN: All right. Do you note that this document refers to the Führer decrees of 18 October ’42, 18 August ’44, and 30 July ’44. Yes or no, please.

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes. It says so here.

COL. AMEN: So that on 23 January ’45 when you wrote this letter, you obviously had knowledge of those decrees, right? I mean...

KALTENBRUNNER: That is incorrect inasmuch as, in my opinion, the most important item in this letter is contained in the sixth, fifth, and fourth lines from the end: Here it says that they can make no claim upon the allowances for prisoners of war in accordance with the Geneva Convention. If, then, under the pressure of work this letter was submitted to me, it is evident that my eyes would first fall on the spot where I had to sign and also on the last lines. Here...

THE PRESIDENT: Defendant, that is not an answer to the question. The question was whether you knew the order of the 18th of October ’42, of 30 July ’44, and 18 August ’44, when you wrote this letter. Did you know?

KALTENBRUNNER: No, I did not know of these orders, Mr. President.

COL. AMEN: All right...

KALTENBRUNNER: But please, would you let me defend myself on this point. It was clear to me that this dealt with the treatment of agents to whom the provisions of the Geneva Convention for prisoners of war are not applicable; and you cannot deny a power at war the right to let its security police take in hand those men who do not come under the regulations of the Geneva War Convention. That is the perfect right of any power at war. There were also German agents who were engaged in hostile activity in England and other countries.

THE PRESIDENT: Defendant, you are not here to argue your case now; you are here to answer questions.

COL. AMEN: Defendant, you testified, did you not, that you first acquired knowledge of the case of the British fliers who escaped from Stalag Luft III in March of 1944, some 6 weeks after the escape occurred; is that not correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, now I assume it was about 6 weeks afterwards; at any rate, it was just when, in consequence of the speech in the House of Commons, the Foreign Office took a stand. The department chiefs turned to me, but I in turn sent them to Himmler.

COL. AMEN: But when you were interrogated about this matter before the Trial, you testified as follows, did you not?

“Question: ‘You remember the case of the 80 British fliers who
escaped from Stalag Luft III, which took place in March ’44?’

“Answer: ‘That case is unknown to me.’

“Question: ‘General Westhoff attempted to find out from the
Gestapo what had happened to these men.’

“Answer: ‘If he had negotiations with the Gestapo, he did not
negotiate with me.’

“Question: ‘What do you say about the general proposition that
escaped prisoners were turned over to the Gestapo?’

“Answer: ‘Such cases are not known to me.’”

Did you make those answers, yes or no?

KALTENBRUNNER: It is possible that I did; but I wish to point out to you that naturally I was completely confused by the manner in which these questions were put. I never really heard of 80 escaped airmen. Here, too, mention was made of 50 only.

COL. AMEN: For your information, 80 escaped and 50 were killed.

KALTENBRUNNER: And in addition, General Westhoff stated here that he did not discuss the Sagan case with me, but that he tried to obtain information from the State Police, that he spoke to me about the transfer of prisoner-of-war affairs to Himmler, who was the Commander of the Reserve Army, and that Sagan was referred to on this occasion.

COL. AMEN: Now, Defendant, you testified that you had no knowledge whatever of the fact that Einsatz groups of the Security Police and SD were operating in the U.S.S.R. until long after you had become Chief of the RSHA in January ’43, is that not correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: And you still say that that is correct?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: You deny that you ever knew that these Einsatz groups carried out the extermination of Jews in the U.S.S.R. until long after you had become Chief of the RSHA?

KALTENBRUNNER: I only discovered this during the arguments I had with Himmler and Hitler—I believe later in 1943—probably in November.

COL. AMEN: And you admit, I take it, that you were a Higher SS and Police Leader in Austria in 1942, right?

KALTENBRUNNER: Yes.

COL. AMEN: And Schirach was a Reich Defense Commissioner in Vienna at that time, was he not?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know when he was appointed, but I must point out that the Higher SS and Police Leaders received those powers with which they finally were invested in three different stages. In 1941, when I became Higher SS and Police Leader, the authority of such a leader was considerably less than it was at the end of the war.

COL. AMEN: Now, if the Tribunal please, I have a document which arrived by airplane yesterday, of which there is only one original copy and which, therefore, we have not been able to get translated. So I have arranged, if it is satisfactory to the Tribunal, for the interpreter to read the excerpts from that original document, which was taken from Schirach’s personal files in Vienna, and then submit the original document to the Court and have it processed just as quickly as we are able to do so. Or perhaps the Tribunal would like to see the document first. It is an original document.

THE PRESIDENT: You will read it so that it will go through into German?

COL. AMEN: Yes, Your Lordship.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well.

COL. AMEN: This is Document Number 3876-PS. It is a report issued by Heydrich to all the Higher SS and Police Leaders and Reich Defense Commissioners on the activities of the Einsatz groups in the U.S.S.R. during the month of January 1942, and on the distribution list appears the name of this defendant.

Will you read the Exhibit USA-808?

THE INTERPRETER: The right-hand side of the document bears the initials in ink, “Sch,” and then several symbols, “Z-RV-K 4030-519/41 g,” and below that, “1320-C.” At the left on top:

“The Higher SS and Police Leader attached to the
Reichsstatthalter in Vienna and in Upper and Lower Danube,
within Wehrkreis XVII; the Inspector of the Order Police.”

Below that there are several file numbers. The document bears the heading, “Secret.” It is dated, “Vienna, 14 October 1941... Subject: Technical report on the battles in the East.”

THE PRESIDENT: Is that right, 14 October 1941?

THE INTERPRETER: Yes, 14 October 1941.

THE PRESIDENT: The previous date that was given was January 1942. What is the explanation of that?

COL. AMEN: It covers the month—I think there are two different documents there. You are giving the date on one. There is a different date on the other. Is that not correct?

THE INTERPRETER: That is correct.

COL. AMEN: Well, give us the date on the other document so the record will be clear.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, we shall be able to understand when we see the document.

COL. AMEN: Yes, Your Lordship. [_Turning to the interpreter._] Go right ahead.

THE INTERPRETER: The date of the other document is April 23, 1942.

COL. AMEN: Go ahead.

THE INTERPRETER: I continue:

“Subject: Technical report on the battles in the East.
Reference...”—and then come series of file numbers—

“The above decree of the Reichsführer SS and Chief of the German
Police in the Ministry of the Interior, and also one copy each
of the technical reports of the Army Command North and the SS
Police Division, are herewith forwarded to you for your
information and use.”

The order is signed “Miegel.”

COL. AMEN: Now, will you just go on to the distribution list and read, if you find it on the list, this defendant’s name.

THE INTERPRETER: The name of the defendant is not on this distribution. I am coming to the next document.

COL. AMEN: Well, it is!

THE INTERPRETER: No, it is not contained in this document, and I am now reading the second document:

“Berlin, 27 February 1942. The Chief of the Security Police and
the SD, IV A 1 ...”—and then several different file
references—

“Top secret. Subject: Activity and situation report Number 9 of
the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the
U.S.S.R. Attached hereto...”

COL. AMEN: Just a minute. He is reading the wrong document, Your Lordship. We will have it straight in a minute.

THE INTERPRETER: I am told I am reading the right document. It is the right document, I continue:

“Herewith attached, I submit to you the ninth comprehensive
report regarding the activities of the Einsatzgruppen of the
Security Police and of the SD in the U.S.S.R. In future these
reports will be sent to you currently as they appear. Signed,
Heydrich.”

Then there is a stamp, “The Reich Defense Commissioner for the Wehrkreis XVII, received 5 March 1942;” and then follows the distribution, of which Number 13 reads, “To the Higher SS and Police Leader, SS Gruppenführer, Dr. Kaltenbrunner.”

COL. AMEN: His name is on the list, is it not? Now, if you will skip to “C” on that document.

THE INTERPRETER: I now read from Page 9 of the document, an extract under the heading “C. Jews:”

“The attitude of the Jews towards the Germans is still clearly
hostile and criminal. It is our aim to cleanse the Eastern
countries of Jews as completely as possible. Everywhere the
executions are to be carried out in such a manner that they will
hardly be noticed by the public. Among the population, and even
among the remaining Jews, the conviction is widespread that the
Jews have merely been resettled. Estonia has already been
cleared of Jews. In Latvia the 29,500 Jews who remained in Riga
have been reduced to 2,500. In Dünaburg there still live 962
Jews who are urgently needed for work.”

I am now skipping several paragraphs and I continue:

“In Lithuania there are now in Kaunas still 15,000 Jews, in
Schaulen 4,500, and in Vilna another 15,000 who are also needed
for work. In White Ruthenia the Jews are being cleared out. The
number of Jews in the part of the country which has so far been
turned over to the civilian administration amounts to 139,000.
In the meantime 33,210 Jews have been shot by the Einsatzgruppen
of the Security Police and the SD.”

I now skip the rest of this extract and continue by reading another document. This is dated, “Berlin, 23 April 1942,” and shows an illegible initial in ink. It bears the heading, “The Chief of the Security Police and the SD, IV A 1,” and several file numbers. It bears the designation, “Top secret.” This document, which is signed by Heydrich and which shows as the date of receipt 28 April 1942, lists in the distribution in the 14th place, “To the Higher SS and Police Leader, SS Gruppenführer, Dr. Kaltenbrunner, Vienna.”

I now read from Page 11 of the report, and I read an extract headed “C. Jews”:

“Different methods were used in solving the Jewish problem in
the various front sectors. Since the greater part of the Eastern
territory is free of Jews, and since the few remaining Jews, who
are required for most urgent work, have been put into ghettos,
it was the task of the Security Police and the SD to round up
those Jews who were hiding mainly in the country. Many times
Jews who had left the ghetto without permission or who were not
wearing the Jewish Star have been arrested. Among others, three
Jews who had been sent from the Reich to the ghetto in Riga and
who had escaped, were captured and publicly hanged in the
ghetto. During large-scale anti-Jewish operations 3,412 Jews in
Minsk, 302 in Vileika, and 2,007 in Baranowicze were shot.”

I now skip three paragraphs and continue:

“In addition to taking action against individual Jews who were
known for their political or criminal activity, it was the task
of the Security Police and the SD, to clean up generally the
larger towns in the remaining territories of the Eastern Front.
Thus, in Rakow alone 15,000, and in Artenowsk 1,224 Jews were
shot, so that now there are no more Jews there. In the Crimea
1,000 Jews and Gypsies were executed.”

That is all.

COL. AMEN: Defendant, do you still have the temerity to tell this Tribunal that you knew nothing about the operations of these Einsatz groups until after you took over as Chief of the RSHA?

KALTENBRUNNER: At the top left hand corner of the document can clearly be read, “The Higher SS and Police Leader...”

THE PRESIDENT: Answer the question and then you can look at the document afterwards. Do you still say that you knew nothing about these Einsatzgruppen?

KALTENBRUNNER: I have no knowledge of the contents of this document. I want to point out that the Office of the Inspector of the Public Police dispatched this letter on 22 October 1941. Technical reports on the fighting on the Eastern Front and on the operations of the Security Police and SD, which were drafted at that time, are based on orders issued by Himmler or Heydrich and not on my orders. In no way can this document show how I regarded the entire question. If the distribution lists all the Higher SS and Police Leaders and all the offices to which these technical reports were sent, I do not regard that as proof that these offices, that is to say all the men who were working in these offices—must necessarily have known of it. You cannot assume that cognizance was actually taken of reports concerning territories over which the official in question had no jurisdiction or influence whatsoever. There is no doubt at all today that these crimes were committed in the East. But it is to be proved whether they are in any way due to my influence, either intellectually, legislatively, or administratively, and whether I approved of them, and whether I could have stopped them; all this I must absolutely deny.

COL. AMEN: Defendant, that was just one of a regular series of monthly reports, a copy of which went to you every single month. Is that not a fact, yes or no?

KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know how often such reports came. I see this report today for the first time. Of course, it cannot be denied that such technical reports from all battle zones concerning either the Security Police, or the Order Police operations, or the experiences of the Wehrmacht were issued and distributed all over the Reich.

COL. AMEN: All right, that is enough for me. Did you know about a letter written by your attorney, seeking evidence on your behalf at this Trial?

KALTENBRUNNER: I have not yet discussed such a letter with my Defense Counsel. Please ask him if he has informed me of this letter.

COL. AMEN: Well, are you not familiar with the fact that he wrote a letter to the Mayor’s office in Oranienburg near Berlin and received a reply to that letter to be used on your behalf?

KALTENBRUNNER: No. Please ask him. He has not told me anything about it.

COL. AMEN: Now, then I will refer you to document number...

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, are you entitled to go into professional matters between the defendant and his counsel?

COL. AMEN: I believe so in this instance, Your Lordship, because the letter was sent to us directly by the recipient of the letter, with the expectation that it would be used by us. This is no confidential communication. It was a letter...

THE PRESIDENT: Will you let the Tribunal see the letter?

COL. AMEN: Yes, Sir.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, this is the first time that I have heard of this matter. If the document is addressed to me, may I perhaps have a look at it before it becomes an item in this Trial?

COL. AMEN: Sure.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly, let him look at it first.

COL. AMEN: If Your Lordship pleases...

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I explain it, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better hear from Colonel Amen first because he wants to introduce the document.

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I say something first?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Kauffmann, what do you want to say now?

DR. KAUFFMANN: Perhaps the Tribunal has already noticed that I...

THE PRESIDENT: We have not seen the document.

DR. KAUFFMANN: I have seen the document.

THE PRESIDENT: I said we have not seen it yet. We have allowed you to see it first in order that you can make any objection to it that you want to make before we see it, and then we will look at it.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, I see. Mr. President, I am of the opinion that this is an unfair infringement on the rights and duties of the German Defense. The whole world may read this document. It is an inquiry which is addressed to the Mayor’s office at Oranienburg. Oranienburg was a large concentration camp. Since, according to an agreement with my colleagues, I had the task of clarifying the question of the “awareness of the German people,” I sent this letter containing questions which everybody may read to the Mayor’s office and requested that these questions be answered. It was my intention to submit these answers, if the occasion arose, to the Tribunal. The same questions have been sent out to other towns, and I have already submitted these documents for translation and shall later submit them to the Tribunal. But it is an impossible state of affairs that a letter of a defense counsel and the reply given to that defense counsel should be disclosed here by the Prosecution.

THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, Dr. Kauffmann. But the document that Colonel Amen was offering in evidence was not your letter to the Mayor of Oranienburg nor his answer to you.

COL. AMEN: Yes, it was.

THE PRESIDENT: I beg your pardon, I thought you said it was a letter that has been sent to the Prosecution.

COL. AMEN: I said that a copy was sent to the Prosecution. As I understand it, not only by the person who received it—there was no covering letter—but also turned over to the British Prosecution in a letter dated 2 April ’46 from Major Wurmser.

THE PRESIDENT: I understand now. I do not think you said before it was a copy. What I understood was it might have been sent to you by mistake. If it were a copy of a letter which was sent to Dr. Kauffmann, then the position is clear as to what it was.

COL. AMEN: That is my understanding of it, Sir. And, of course, it is a copy of his letter but I know of no privilege whatsoever of a confidential...

THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean by “a copy of his letter”? A copy of the letter sent to Dr. Kauffmann?

COL. AMEN: Sent by Dr. Kauffmann to the Mayor of Oranienburg and a copy of the reply made by the Mayor to Dr. Kauffmann; and I think you will see, if Your Lordship reads the reply, how it is that it came directly to our attention.

DR. KAUFFMANN: May I add one more thing, only two or three sentences, please? I consider the presentation of these two documents a particularly severe infringement of the rights of the Defense. The Defense has had no opportunity to look at the documents of the Prosecution, and it would never have occurred to us to submit to the Tribunal documents of the Prosecution which are to our advantage. This is exclusively a matter between me, the sender of the letter, and the office answering it; how is it possible for the Prosecution to be allowed to interfere in such entirely personal matters? I do not think that is fair.

COL. AMEN: Now, if Your Lordship pleases, I think I can clear the whole thing up. This is a letter dated 2 April ’46 from Major Wurmser to the British Prosecution, and it reads as follows:

“Attached please find the original correspondence regarding
Oranienburg. In accordance with your request, I have ascertained
that this correspondence was received in the following way. It
came addressed to the Prosecution and was delivered to the
General Secretary. The original was apparently sent directly to
Dr. Kauffmann and the sender, the Mayor of Oranienburg, a Mr.
Klaussmann, dispatched at the same time a carbon copy to the
Prosecution which not only consisted of his answer but also of
the letter which was sent to him by Dr. Kauffmann.”

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think we understand the circumstances now.

COL. AMEN: So I think it was sent to the Prosecution for the very purpose for which I am now endeavoring to utilize it.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, apart altogether from the question of privilege between counsel and his client, how do you say that this document, which is a letter apparently from a private individual addressed to Dr. Kauffmann, copy of which is sent to you, is evidence at all?

COL. AMEN: Because, Your Lordship, there is included in this defendant’s document book a letter which is on precisely this same point. In other words, this defendant has raised this point in his own defense. He did not read the letter.

THE PRESIDENT: That is not quite the point. This letter to Dr. Kauffmann, of which you have a copy, is not as I understand a sworn statement.

COL. AMEN: It is not sworn; no, Sir.

THE PRESIDENT: How does it become evidence then? The witness is not here.

COL. AMEN: It has the same probative value that many letters introduced here in evidence have. In fact, I think it has considerably more than many of them, because it is a letter from an official, from the mayor who has conducted an inquiry and has ascertained what I consider to be one of the most important matters in the case—namely, whether...

THE PRESIDENT: No, I do not want to hear at the moment what is in the letter.

COL. AMEN: I cannot think of a thing that was more pertinent than this letter, or more important, to be brought out at this Trial, particularly when it—well, you do not want me to go into that—particularly when it is something which the defendant has sought to interpose as his own defense, and which now turns out...

THE PRESIDENT: But he has not sought to introduce it for his own defense.

COL. AMEN: Well, I say he has sought to introduce that issue by the letter in his document book so that, even were it not otherwise perhaps relevant, it surely becomes so when the defendant has raised that precise issue in his own documents. But even aside from that, it seems to me that it is one of the most important issues in this case.

I will not characterize it in words since Your Lordship does not wish me to, but I can hardly think of anything more pertinent than the matter set forth there in the form of an official communication.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen the only question I was asking you was how the particular document, which is an unsworn document, came to be competent evidence. Has it been seen by the witness who is under cross-examination?

COL. AMEN: Well, as an official communication, Sir, to his counsel. In the course of the discharge of his official duties as a mayor—it is a part of his job.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Kauffmann.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, I do not wish to speak now about the question of procedure. I merely want to mention that this letter...

THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute.

DR. KAUFFMANN: I do not want to deal at great length with the question of procedure which we touched upon just now, but I wish to emphasize that these two documents have nothing to do with the case of Kaltenbrunner as such. As I have just said, anyone may look at the document; but, since this document has nothing to do with Kaltenbrunner, it has from the very outset no value as evidence.

COL. AMEN: Well, it has even further probative value, Your Lordship, in that, if the matters referred to in this letter were known, as described in the letter to the people in Oranienburg, surely the person who occupies the position as Chief of the RSHA in Germany must certainly have the knowledge which the smallest local civilian appears to have.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn.

[_A recess was taken._]

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal rules that the document is inadmissible.

COL. AMEN: That was to have been my last document, Your Lordship; so that concludes the cross-examination, except for one point. There is a witness named Hoess, who is called on behalf of the defendant, and through whom I would like to introduce two exhibits. If he is not to be called, however, then I would like to introduce those exhibits through the defendant. So I am wondering whether we could obtain a definite statement as to whether or not the witness Hoess is actually to be called by the Defense.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, are you proposing to call Hoess?

DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: You are.

DR. KAUFFMANN: I have no further questions to put to the defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid I did not hear what you said, Dr. Kauffmann.

DR. KAUFFMANN: I have no further questions.

THE PRESIDENT: Then the defendant can return to his seat. Wait a minute, wait a minute!

CHIEF COUNSELLOR OF JUSTICE L. N. SMIRNOV (Assistant Prosecutor for the U.S.S.R.): Just a minute—stay! Mr. President, we have a few questions to put to the defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, we understood the other day that the Counsel for the Prosecution had agreed that there should be only one cross-examination of the Defendant Kaltenbrunner.