Chapter CXXIV: Preface: Courteous Reader, (14)

Other things thou dost quarrel against, but seeing they are in effect the same with the former, I pass them by; and shall come to the next thing thou dost think to catch me withal, and that is; because I say, that "God only is the Saviour, there is none besides him." Therefore sayest thou, how contrary is this to that in p. 24, where I say, How wickedly are they deluded, who own Christ no otherwise that as he was before the world began. Now this in no contradiction as thou wouldest have it; for though I say there is none but God our Saviour, yet I did also then in my book shew how he was our Saviour, namely, "in that he came into the world, being born of a virgin, made under the law, that he might redeem them that were under the law, by his obedience in that nature, by suffering in that nature, by his rising again in that nature, and by carrying that nature into heaven with him," as the scriptures at large declare; and therefore, though I say God is our Saviour, and none besides him; yet they that own him to be the Saviour no otherwise than as he was before the world began, are such as deny that he is come in the flesh, and so are of antichrist (1John 2) For before God could actually be a Saviour, he must partake of another nature than the divine, even the nature of man (Heb 2:14,15).

Again, thou sayest, it is a sander put upon the Quakers, to say, they slight the resurrection: Ans. What say you, do you believe the resurrection of the body after it is laid in the grave? Do you believe that the saints that have been this four or five thousand years in their graves shall rise, and also the wicked, each one with that very body wherein they acted in this world; some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt? Answer plainly, and clear yourselves, but I know you dare not, for you deny these things.

But if you speak doubtfully, or covertly in answer there unto; I doubt not but God will help me to find you out, and lay open your folly; if I shall live till another cavil by you be put forth against the truth.

The next thing thou cavillest at is, that query raised from (Eph 4:10). and thou sayest I have not answered it. You should have answered it better, or else have confuted that answer I gave unto it, and then you had done something: But the great thing that troubles thee is, because I say, (further in my book) he that ascended from his disciples, was a very man, "Handle me and see; saith Christ, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." Now let the adversary shew by the scripture (said I) that there is in them any place called heaven, which is able to contain a man of some four or five foot long (or a competent man of flesh and bones) for the space of fifteen or sixteen hundred years, but that above the clouds, which troubles thee so, that it makes thy tongue run thou canst not tell how; but know, that when the son of man shall come from heaven to judge the world in righteousness, that which thou callest foolishness now, thou wilt find a truth thereby to thy own wrong, if thou close not in with him, who said, "Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

Another thing that thou art troubled at, is, in that I do reckon the Quakers to be of the deluding party; when alas, all men that have eyes to see; may easily discern, that you are of the generation, as will appear in part by your own expressions, both now, and also at other times. But that you may take off the brand from yourselves, you say, that the false prophets and antichrist, were in the apostle days, as though there should be no false prophets now, when the very time we live in doth manifestly declare, and hold forth, that there are many, who at this day seek to beguile unstable souls, of which sort you are not the least, though for ought I can learn as yet, you are the last, (that are come into the world) but that you may the better shift it form yourselves, you say, that in those days there was not a Quaker heard of; namely, in the days of John. Friend, thou hast rightly said, there was not a Quaker heard of indeed, though there were many Christians heard of then. By this you yourselves do confess, that you are a new upstart sect, which was not at other times in the world, though Christian saints have been always in the world. Friend, here like a man in the dark, in seeking to keep thyself out of one ditch, thou art fallen into another; instead of proving yourselves no false prophets, you prove yourselves no Christians, saying, There was not a Quaker heard of then. But if Quakers had been Christians, then they would have been heard of the glory of God, and his Christ.

Again to defend thyself thou throwest the dirt in my face, saying; IF we should diligently trace thee, we should find thee in their steps, meaning false prophets, through fained words, through covetousness making merchandise of souls, loving the wages of unrighteousness.

Friend, dost thou speak this as from thy own knowledge, or did any other tell thee so? However, that spirit that led thee out this way, is a lying spirit. For though I be poor, and of no repute in the world, as to outward things; yet through grace I have learned by the example of the apostle to preach the truth; and also to work with my hands, both for mine own living, and for those that are with me, when I have opportunity. And I trust that the Lord Jesus, who hath helped me to reject the wages of unrighteousness hitherto, will also help me still, so that I shall distribute that which God hath given me freely, and not for filthy lucre's sake. Other things I might speak in vindication of my practice in this thing: but ask of others, and they will tell thee that the things I say are truth: and hereafter have a care of receiving anything by hearsay only, lest you be found a publisher of those lies which are brought to you by others, and so render yourself the less credible; but be it so.

And as for your thinking, that to drink water,5 and wear no hatbands, is not walking after your own lusts; I say, that whatsoever men do make a religion out of, having no warrant for it in the scripture, is but walking after their own lusts, and not after the Spirit of God. Thus have I passed thy 23d page.

And lest you should think that the Quakers are not such as condemned me and others for preaching according to the scriptures; as you would fain clear your selves of this charge laid against you in my book, by your saying, you deny the accusation to be true upon any of the Quakers. I shall therefore tell you of your sister Anne Blackly, who did bid me in the audience of many, "To throw away the scriptures." to which I answered, "No, for then the devil would be too hard for me."

And again, because I said, The man Christ Jesus was above the clouds and the heavens, now absent from his people in the world, touching his bodily presence; she said, I preached up an idol, and used conjuration and witchcraft. which things I should rather have desire her to repent of, than to make her a public example for others to take warning by; but that it is expedient that your folly be laid open, that others may fear to do as you have done.

But farther, thou chargest me with a loud crying out against Christ within. This is thy throwing of dirt in my face again, for I have said it often, that if any man have not the Sprit of Christ he is none of his.

Again thou sayest that in page 203, I do take in hand to prove or discover that the doctrine of Christ within, is a false opinion.

Thou dost also here speak falsely of me, for all that I take in hand to prove, is this, that they hold a false opinion (and principles too) who hold up a Christ within, in opposition to Christ without, who is the Saviour; as doth plainly appear by my following discourse, if you read from page 203 to the end of my book.

But in the next place, after much railing, thou comest to the place where I again ask this question, "doth not the scripture make mention of a Christ within?"

To which I answer, Yes, and he that hath it not is note of his. But to lay open my folly at last thou sayest, Doth not the scripture say, Christ is within you, except ye be reprobates? and is not this thus much, are not all they reprobates (say you) but they in whim Christ is within?

Ans. They are indeed reprobates who have not Christ within them; but now, how is thy folly manifest? that in one place thou shouldest confess some are reprobates, who have not Christ within; and yet in page 18, of thy book thou sayest, it is given to every man. And in page 26, of thy book, thou sayest, that a measure of the Spirit is given to every man, and is given within him too, though the scripture declareth the contrary, and thyself also now at last. It is well thou dost recant so much, as to eat thy first words at the last, or at least to show thyself unstable in judgment: Friend, thou mayest see, the more thou dost fight against the truth, the more thou foilest thyself: Partly by helping of it, and partly by contradiction thyself.

One thing more thou dost befool thyself with; and that is, in that thou in the first place sayest thou ownest the words in my book, and yet hath spent some four sheets of paper to vent thy thoughts against them.

But peradventure thou wilt say; those words that I own are not those that I speak against, but the other. to which I answer, There are many things in my book spoken of by me that are truth, which if you own, you must leave professing your self a Quaker. As,

1. That that man that was born of the virgin Mary, called Jesus (I say you will not own) that he in his own person, by himself without us, die completely bring in everlasting life for us, by offering up himself once for all upon the cross.

2. That Christ who wrought out redemption for his children, did after he had wrought it out, go away from them, and not into them in his person.

3. That he ever liveth, that very man to make intercession in his person, in the presence of his Father without, until the end of the world.

4. That that very man who did go away from his disciples into heaven, will come again personally the same man the second time, and before him shall be gathered all nations, and he shall judge them for their sins: and take his to himself, who shall soul and body be with him to all eternity; these things (I say) thou couldest not own, though they are the truth of God. But leaving thee to the great God, who will give thee according to thy works, in this as in other things: I shall come to thy answers to my queries.

Query 1. The first query that I propounded is, If thou sayest that every man hath a measure of the Spirit of Christ within him, why say the scriptures, "Some are sensual, having not the Spirit." And when Christ telleth his disciples, of sending them the Spirit, he saith, the world cannot receive it. Here in the first place thou hast not only answered deceitfully, but hast also corrupted my words in laying down the query, in that thou didst leave out some words, for thou didst lay it down thus: "If thou sayest that every man hath a measure of the Sprit of Christ within him, why say the scriptures, some are sensual, having not the Spirit:" and Christ saith, "The world cannot receive it." (Reader, compare them both together.)

Now thy answer, is, "Some are sensual, having not the spirit, because they receive it not, and some cannot receive it, because they believe not on him from whence it comes." Yet sayest thou, "The measure of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal," as the scriptures say: when there is no scripture faith, a measure of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. But again, see here thy strange confusion. 1. Say, some have it not. 2. To say every man hath it. but you would make a difference between having and receiving: but I tell thee, he that hath not received it, hath it not (Jude 19).

Query 2. My second query was, "What is the church of God redeemed by from the curse of law? Is it by something done within them, or by something done without them?" If you say, it is redeemed by something that worketh in them, then why did the man Christ Jesus hang on the cross on Mount Calvary, without the gate of Jerusalem, for the sins of his children? And why do the scriptures say, "that through this man is preached to us the forgiveness of sins?"

The answer thou givest is, "The church of God is redeemed by Christ Jesus, which is revealed in all believers. and Christ Jesus wrought in them mightily; and it was he that wrought in them to will and to do."

This is plain scripture, and the man Christ Jesus (sayest thou) hanged on the cross on Mount Calvary: because, they wickedly judged him to be a blasphemer, and through their envy persecuted him to death; because he bare witness against them, and as in their account he died, and hanged on the cross, for an evil doer. And this is one ground (at least) why he hanged on the cross, &c.

Ha Friend? I had thought thou hadst not been so much hardened; art thou not ashamed thus to slight the death of the Man Chris Jesus on the cross; and reckon it not effectually for salvation, but sayest, the church is redeemed by Christ Jesus which is revealed within. and to confirm it, thou dost also corruptly bring in two scriptures.

The one saith, "Whereunto I also labour according to his working, which worketh in me mightily." By which word Paul signifies thus much, "That as God was with him in the ministry of the word, so did he also strive according to his working which wrought in him mightily." what is this to the purpose (See Col 1:26-30)? And also, the other scripture makes nothing to prove, that the church of God is redeemed by Christ within, as he is within. Only you must corrupt the scriptures, and be transform (though ministers of darkness) into an angel of light, if you will do any mischief.

And now, that thy answer is false, I shall clearly prove. Fist, because thou deniest that redemption was wrought out for sinners by the Man Christ Jesus on the cross, or tree, on Mount Calvary; when the scripture saith plainly, that when he did hang on the tree, then did he bear all our sins there in his own body (1Peter 2:24). And secondly, being within; when the work of the Spirit of Christ in believers, is to make known to the soul by dwelling within, which way and how they were redeemed by the Man Christ Jesus on the cross. And this I prove farther, because when thou art forced to answer to these words, why did the Man Christ Jesus hang on the cross on Mount Calvary for the sins of his children? Thou sayest, because they wickedly judged him to be a blasphemer. Friend, I did not ask thee why the Jews did put him to death? But why was he crucified there for the sins of his children? But thou willing to cover over thine error, goest on cunningly saying, and though their envy they persecuted him to death, for an evil doer. This is one ground at least, &c.

Friend, but that thou art ashamed to own the gospel of Jesus Christ, thou wouldest have said, he was crucified there for the sins of the world; and by his offering up of himself upon the cross, he did for ever perfect them that are sanctified. Nay, thou wouldest have studied to exalt his dying there; first, by shewing what a sad condition we were in without it; Secondly, by holding forth the manifold and great privileges that we have by his dying for us there. But thou art at enmity against the things of God, as is clearly seen by those that have indeed the spirit of God in them, and are enabled thereby to discern you. and though you say, there is no other that can forgive sin, but the blood of god. Yet thou deniest, that the blood of him, who was, and is truly god as well as Man, Christ Jesus: I say, thou deniest that his blood that was shed without Jerusalem Gates, doth wash away sin from the saints of God: and cunningly (though not at this time uttered) concluding that the blood of God was shed for sin on a cross within. If it be not so, then call me liar; but it will clearly appear so to be in your answer to my third query.

Query 3. What scripture have you to prove, that Christ is, or was crucified within you, dead within you, risen within you, ascended within you?

Thy answer is, There is no scripture that mentions every of our names in particular. and thy standing of us, so I judge. But Christ is within us, that we do not deny, and he is the Lamb that was slain in the streets of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom, and Egypt (mind spiritually) and he is now risen, and ascended; this we know, and leave thee to receive a further answer from them that are led by a spirit of delusion.

Friend, How dost thou run about the bush, seeking to scrabble up an answer, but findest not a right one, and wouldest also fain hold out, that Christ is, or was crucified within, dead within, risen and ascended within; but seeing thou canst not with or by the scriptures give an answer; then see in thyself left of them, through the strength of carnal reason, thou goest about this way. Is there any of our names made mention of in scripture, or to that purpose, and wouldst fain infer from thence, that because we have names, though not mentioned in scripture, therefore, Christ is, and was crucified within, though not mentioned in the scriptures. Friend, they sophistry deceives thee.

The second Argument, which is like the first, is this, He is the Lamb slain in the streets of the great city, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. Now from the word "spiritually," thou wouldest willingly infer also, that Christ is and was crucified within, dead within, and risen within you, and therefore thou sayest, mind spiritually. Friend, I may well mind thy spiritual wickedness, by which thou wouldest willingly cover thy heresy, but it will not be. Though thou dare not speak plainly in so many words, yet the thoughts of thy heart are made manifest, by the words that flow from thee.

Ah Friend! That thou couldest but close with the truth, and venture thy soul upon what was done by Jesus on the cross without the gates of Jerusalem, for it is by and through that blood that was there shed that we have redemption (Heb 13:12 compare with Col 1:20), and remission of sins (Eph 1:7 and 1Peter 2:24).

Query 4. My fourth query was, Is that very Man that was crucified between two thieves, whose name was Jesus the Son of Mary, is he the very Christ of God, yea, or nay?

Thy Answer is, Yes, he is the very Christ of God, which was before the world was, by whom the world was made, who was made manifest from Mary's womb, and was persecuted to death by the Scribes and Pharisees, in whose steps thou treadest in asking subtile questions to ensnare the innocent, as they did. Read thy example (sayest thou) and thyself to be an enemy to God's Christ.

This Answer is doubtfully given, I did not ask thee whether he was the Christ of God, that was before the world was; but I asked thee whether he was the Christ of God, that did hang between two thieves on Mount Calvary. Now I know the Christ of God was before the world was; but thou art afraid to look upon him, as suffering on the cross on Mount Calvary, between two thieves for our sins. But contrary-wise, wouldst willingly own him to be no otherwise, but as he was before the world, which thing is very dangerous; for he that doth so, doth lay aside all things, that in his own person he did in the flesh that he took from the Virgin Mary, as to justification and salvation; only supposing him to be but an example, and so bespatters all his merit and righteousness, by your false conclusions, which in his own person he accomplished for our justification.

And Friend, hadst thou not been afraid of thyself, thou wouldst have been so far from calling these my queries, subtil questions, that thou wouldst have owned them, and have given a sober Christian answer to them, instead of a railing accusation. But it matters not, it hath but made thee shew thyself the more, which peradventure for a time might otherwise have lien hid.

Query 5. My fifth query was, "Is that very man with that very body within you, yea, or no?" to which thou answerest: "The very Christ of God is within us, we dare not deny him; and we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, as the Ephesians were: they that are led with a spirit of delusion, shall answer the rest of this thy query, if they will."

Thy answer is nothing to the question, for I did not ask, whether the Spirit of Christ was in thee? (though I question the truth of that) But I asked you whether that very Man, with that very body, (or the body of Christ that was hanged on the cross) be within you? But I see you are minded to famble,6 and will not answer plainly. But thou answerest, saying, "We are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, as the Ephesians were." This is nothing to the purpose neither; for it is one thing for a man to be a member of the flesh and bones of Christ, and another thing to have the flesh and bones of Christ within him. What, because believers are members one of another, must they therefore be also one in another? No. Even so, though a believer be a member of the body, flesh and bones of Christ; it doth not therefor follow, that Christ, flesh and bones is within him. But thou art loth to discover thyself in plain terms, though thou art made manifest full sore against thy will; for thou dost here also, though very cunningly, signify, that thou ownest Christ no otherwise, but as he is within. And to own him no otherwise, is still against the gospel and faith of the Apostles, who said, they were absent from him while they were at home in the body, or here below (2Cor 5:6).

Query 6. My sixth query was this, "Was that very Jesus, that was born of the Virgin Mary, a real man of flesh and bones after his resurrection out of Joseph's sepulchre, yea, or nay. The scriptures say he was; and if so, then did that man go away from his disciples, and not into them, as the scriptures declare; or did he with that body of flesh go into his disciples, as some fond dreamers think."

Thy answer is, What the scripture speaks of Christ, we own to be truth, and own him to be what the scriptures speak of him; and all men's imaginations of him we deny, and their false interpretations of the scripture concerning him. and let the fond dreamers, who err in their thoughts, be reproved; for we dare own nothing but what the Spirit of the Lord bears witness of according to the scriptures. And thus far I and answer in behalf of the Quakers; and let them that are led with a spirit of delusion answer the rest, which concerns themselves.

This answer hath some pretended fairness in it. But yet we know you, that you can wrest the scriptures to your own destruction; and that is clear, in that though you say you own him as the scriptures speak of him, yet you deny him as the scriptures speak of him in part. And if at any time you plead on truth, it is that you might by your corrupt dealing with that, clash against another: as for instance: You profess you own Christ within, but withal, with that doctrine you sill smite against the doctrine of Christ Jesus in his person without, and deny that though that is a truth, as is also the other. You do use the truth of the resurrection of saints, from a state of nature, to a state of grace, to fight against that truth of the resurrection of the bodies of saints out of their graves; together with other things that I might add, as you holding forth the intercession of the Spirit of Christ within, in opposition to the intercession of Christ in his person without in the heavens. Which things being thus done, they shew forth a great deal either of ignorance or presumption, knowingly to fight against the truth. And in this that thou answerest so generally, and not particularly to the question, it is evident that thou dost not plainly declare thy mind, but dost keep that in thy bosom, which thou darest not manifest to the world.

Query 7. My seventh query was, "Hath that Christ that was with God the Father before the world was, no other body but his church?" If you say No, as it is your wonted course; then again I ask you, "what was that in which he did bear our sins, was, or is, the church of god, yea, or no?" Again, if you say he hath no other body but his church, then I ask, What that was that was taken down from the cross? But here thou puttest a stop to the rest of my words, with an &c.

Thy answer is, I this thou hast not only queried, but slandered; therefore thy slander (sayest thou) I do remove. It is our wonted course, sayest thou, to say, that Christ hath no other body but his church. thou art here a false accuser. But we say, the church is Christ's body; and it is sufficient for salvation to know Christ Jesus to be head in us, and over us, and ourselves to be members of his body; which thou sayest is his church. And what thou intendest by making so many foldings in one query, sayest thou, it may be judged it is to insnare; and in that thou answerest, thou answerest thyself for us in some things, that thou mightest have a further ground to lay a deeper snare; we do deny thee and thy spirit, and see thee to be only feeding in thy imaginations upon the report of things, without the life: And thy religion stands in disputes and controversies, and queries, and many words. But our religion stands in the exercise of a pure conscience towards God, and towards man; whether we speak, or be silent: These are thy words.

Now in my query thou sayest I slander, in that I say, you Quakers allow of no other body of Christ; but the Church of Christ; yet dost thou not clear thyself at all, only thou wouldest say something to dazzle the eyes of the ignorant. But friend, if thou wouldest have made it appear that I slandered in saying, you own on other body but the church; you should have said yes, we do own this, that Christ hath a body that is now in glory, ascended from his disciples, according to the scripture (Acts 1:3 compared with verses 9-11). But thou dost only fling up a few words into the air, that thou mightest thereby puzzle thy simple reader. But I bless God, for my part I do see thee, that thou dost, like a beguiled man, seek by all means to beguile others. And whereas thou sayest, It is sufficient to salvation, to know Christ Jesus as head in us, and over us. To this I answer, whatsoever thy meaning is by these words, yet there are none shall be saved, but those who through the mighty operation of the Spirit of Christ, are enabled to apply what the man Christ Jesus the Son of Mary hath done and suffered, and is now a-doing for sinners and saint, (and for him) in the presence of his Father, now ascended in his body of flesh and bones, from his children which are alive in this world. I say, there are none shall be saved, but those that are thus established, or shall be so, as is clear from these (1Peter 1:18,19; 2:24; 3:18,22.; 4:1; 2Peter 1:17; Heb 7:24,25; 10:7,9; 13:12; 1Tim 2:5,6; Eph 1:7; Acts 13:37-39) with many other scriptures. And again, when you say, I answer you in something, if you mean, that the body in which he did bare the sins of his children, is his church (for that is partly my query,) then I do say, that your doctrine is desperate and devilish; and you do thereby undervalue the death, blood, resurrection an ascension, intercession and second coming again of that man for salvation; and therefore for a better satisfaction to all who may read your book, I entreat you to answer, "Did he bear our sins in that body which is his church, or did he bear our sins in that body that did hang on the cross on Mount Calvary?" Answer plainly I beseech you.

And now friend, passing by the rest of thy brawlings, I shall come to thy several queries, and shall answer to them in the simplicity of my soul, not laying down any doubtful expressions, but in all plainness, and not as you do, for the better understanding of them by those that read them.

These be the Quaker's Queries, and my Answers to them.

Query 1. "Is any man justified in the sight of God, but he that followeth Christ; and is it not a work to follow Christ, yea or nay, and what is the sight of God."

Ans. He that followeth Christ; aright, must first believe in Christ; for how shall they follow him, in whom they believe not. Now then the scripture saith, He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life (John 3:16-18), so then we are justified by believing; and if so, then to follow Christ is rather a fruit of our believing, that justification itself. And whereas you ask, What is the sight of God? I answer, To be justified in the sight of God by Jesus Christ, is for God to look on such poor creatures as we are; as complete, without spot or wrinkle, in the obedience of the man Christ Jesus; who otherwise could not behold them in love, because of their iniquity (Hab 1:3).

Query 2. "Whether will that faith justify a man which hath not works, seeing the scripture, or the Apostle saith, faith without works is dead; and what is that which worketh faith; and where is it, within, or without?"

Ans. That faith that hath not works is dead, being alone. Yet it doth not follow, that all that have works, have faith. No; but contrary-wise, men may have works, yea, the works of the law of God too, and yet be under the curse (Gal 2:10-13); which they could not be if they had saving faith. So then, if faith without works is dead; and again, if men may have works, and yet no faith, no saving faith, I mean: Then it will be good to inquire, what it is to have a right faith, which doth bring forth right good works; and who have works without a right faith. And

(1.) A right saving faith, is, for a man to be enabled of God's holy Spirit, to lay hold on what the man Christ hath done in his won person, when he was in the world? as his birth, righteousness, death, blood, resurrection, ascension, and intercession; and to apply the virtue and merit thereof to himself, so as to see himself saved thereby (Rom 4:24,25). Being justified freely by his grace: How? Even through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation, or reconciler, through faith in his blood, &c. Again, "Be it known unto you,--that through this man is preached unto the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe: (Mark, all that believe; namely, in his blood which was shed on Mount Calvary) are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38,39). If the faith that applies these things be of the operation of God, it is very much accompanied with good works. "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead, and that he died for all, that they which live (namely by the faith of this, that Christ died for all (Gal 2:29)), should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them" (2Cor 5:14,15). But

(2.) they that deny the merits of the birth, death, righteousness, blood, &c. of the man that was born of Mary, which he fulfilled in his own person, by himself (Heb 1:3). I say, they that do not venture their souls on these glorious, mysterious truths, but deny the belief of them to be sufficient of themselves to save from hell, and all other things, and doth expect that salvation should be obtained by some thing that worketh in them, by working in them. It is impossible that these, though they may be, touching the righteousness of the law blameless, (as Paul was while he was a persecutor (Phil 3:6)), to be saved hereby. Wherefore? because they seek it not by the faith of Christ, but as it were by the works of the law (Rom 9:30,31).

And whereas you ask me, "What is that which worketh faith? And where is it, within or without?" I answer, That which worketh saving faith, is the holy spirit of God, which is renewed through the hearing of the word, preached by the apostles or ministers of Jesus Christ: Now the Spirit when it doth work, it entereth into the soul, and as I said before, doth enable the soul to believe, and lay hold on the merits of the son of Mary, Jesus Christ. For saith he, when he is come, he shall glorify me, for he shall take of mine, and shew it unto you (John 16:14).

Query 3. "Whether any be justified but he that is born of God? And whether doth he that is born of God commit sin? And is that within the creature, or without, that worketh the new birth?"

Ans. Justification may be taken two ways, (1.) either in the sight of God, or in the sight of the soul, or creature; my meaning is, that all that are or shall be saved, are justified in the sight and foreknowledge of God before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, &c. Having predestinated us to the us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ unto himself. And again, "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Rom 8:30). Mark, all these thing are spoken as being already done; predestinated, called, justified, glorified. He doth not say, they shall be, but he hath done it, that is, in and according to the foreordination of God. (2.) Saints are said to by justified in their own sight or knowledge, as when God doth make manifest to the soul, what he had determined before should be done. "Be of good cheer, thy sins are forgiven thee." this is justification in the sight of the creature. And whereas you ask me, "do they that are born of God commit sin?" To this I answer,

They shall never commit the sin against the Holy Ghost, as is the meaning of that place (1John 5:16-18). There is a sin unto death, and there is a sin not unto death.--He that is born of God sinneth not, but keepeth himself; and that wicked one, (mark, that wicked one, the sin unto death,) toucheth him not: But they that are born of God notwithstanding, do daily sin, as it is evident (John 3:2). "In many things we offend all," saith he, I and you, all of us. And again, if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and (instead of having no sin) the truth is not in us (1John 1:8). And who can say, my heart is clean? There is none righteous, no not one. And again, "There is not a must man upon earth that doeth good, and sinneth not" (Eccl 7:20). And I am confident, that while some would persuade others that they have no sin, their own consciences tell them they lie; and if it be not so in the rest, it is because they are hardened, and given to believe a lie.

As to the latter part of your query, I answer; The new birth is wrought through hearing of the word preached. And yet not by conscience, nor by the obedience to the law, or dictates of nature; but by the Spirit coming into the soul, and shewing its lost condition without the obedience of the Jesus of Mary, the Son of God; and his freeness and willingness to communicate, or give himself, and all his things unto it; which being done, the man is thereupon given up to god, and is become a new creature. I might spend much time in speaking to this, but I forbear, because of itself it is enough to fill up a small volume.

Query 4. "If Christ hath enlightened all men as he is God (as thou confessest) then hath he not enlightened all men as he is the Son of God? and is not the light of God sufficient in itself, to lead to God all that follow it, yea, or nay?"

Ans. (1.) Christ as he is God, doth enlighten every man that comes into the world, which light is conscience, or otherwise nature itself, which doth also convince of sin (John 7:9). Yet Christ as he is God; doth not give unto every man that spirit that doth lead to eternal life, for all men have it not (Jude 19). (2.) Christ as he was and is the son of God before the world was, being one in power, and being with his Father, hath enlightened every one that comes into the world, as aforesaid; but hath not so neither given them his spirit. "Some are sensual," &c. (3.) Christ as God-man, or as he came into the world to die for those whom before as God he knew and loved; I say, he doth not in this way neither enlighten every man with the saving light of life, or give unto them his holy Spirit. No, they that have been, and now are believers, do know and can remember, that all the time of their unregenerate state, they were without Christ (Eph 2:12). so that here is no way or room for your doctrine, take it how you will, Christ hath not given to every one his Spirit.

Second Part of the Query. Is not the light of God sufficient in itself, to lead to god all that follow it, yea, or nay?

Ans. (1.) As I said before, some are sensual, and have not the Spirit of Christ. (2.) No man can come to God as a Father by adoption, but by Jesus Christ; then it must needs be that all men, though they do follow that light which is given to every man, it is not able to lead to God as a Father in the Lord Jesus Christ. Ye this light that every man hath, will shew a man there is a God, and that this God is eternal; and also will clear out something of him, to them, by the things that are made. But now, if this light would lead to everlasting life, then might the devils also be delivered from everlasting damnation; seeing they also do know god as a creator and revenger of sin, more perfectly than any natural man in the world, though not as a Father by adoption.

But you say, Doth it not lead to God all that follow it? Answ. (q.) Not to be saved, though to be condemned, through the weakness and unprofitableness of that light, or conscience, or the law, call it either, and I clear it thus: Because, if that light that every man receives, were able by our following it, to save us, then Christ needed not to gave suffered, seeing all men had that light. (2.) If that light that every man hath, which is conscience, were able to lead a man to justification by following it; that promise was made in vain by Jesus the Son of Mary, when he said, "I will send you; [Mark, I will send you] the Spirit, and he shall lead you into all truth:" for they had a light before. But it is evident, that that was not sufficient, because they must have another sent them by Jesus Christ, and that must be that Spirit.

Query 5. "Whether is not the same light in him that hates it, as it is in him that loves it (John 3). If there be a difference in the light, show it wherein; whether in the nature, or otherwise?"

Answ. (1.) That scripture quoted in John 3. "Light is come into the world," &c., is not meant of that light, or conscience, that every man hath; but the Man Christ Jesus is speaking there of himself, as God-man, come into the world, born of the Virgin, if thou compare verses 19-21 with 14-18 of the same chapter, it is clear, for they all do speak of the same thing; namely, the Son of Mary. And again, saith he, "I am the light of the world." Now the man Christ, though he was then in the world, and walked up and down in the same, yet he was not within any man in the world as man, (though he calls himself the light thereof) though he was in some; I say, in some, as God by his Spirit. Now the light, which was the Man Christ, was the very same, whether loved by some, or hated by others; but if you conclude every man hath Christ, or that light spoken of there (John 3), within him; that I deny, having proved the contrary. But (2.) Whether is there a difference in the light? Answ. There are more lights than one, there is a light that may be suspected to be darkness, where he saith, "If the light that is in thee be darkness," &c. Again, there is the light of the law (Prov 6:23). Again, conscience also will convince of sin. Now there is none of these that can save a sinner from the evil of his ways. Take the best of them, which is the righteous law of God, that cannot. For had there been a law given, which might have given life, then verily righteousness had come by the law: But if you conclude that righteousness, or everlasting life cometh by the law, you must conclude this again; that Christ did die in vain (Gal 2:21). So then these things being not able to save the soul, the next thing is, the Son of God, the Son of righteousness arising with healing under his wings; he is also a light, and indeed the saving light, for surpassing all the other mentioned.

Now though Christ doth not differ in himself, yet there is a difference in the power of these lights; the law and Christ, the one not being able to save, the other being able. And again, there is also a difference in the nature of them; the one being a condemning light, the other a saving light. It is Moses that accuseth you (saith Christ) even Moses in whom ye trust: But do not think, saith Christ, that I will accuse you to the Father: No, saith he, it is Moses, or the law given by him. But again, where Christ speaks for himself as a Saviour, he saith "God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" (John 3:17). So that I say, (a.) That light spoken of (John 3), which is the Man Christ, is not in every man that comes into the world. (b.) That the Man Christ, or the light spoken of there, is not against himself. (c.) There is the light of the law, conscience, and nature itself, which are in all men, which things are altogether insufficient to save a man from death, by his seeking of justification thereby. again, there is Jesus Christ, he is the Saviour, but not in all men. And again, neither is the Man Christ Jesus the condemning light.

Query 6. "Whether is it possible, that any can be saved, without Christ manifested within? If no, then whether is not the doctrine of salvation, which is only necessary, to preach Christ within: And is not the whole mystery of salvation, God manifest in the flesh?"

Answ. There can none be saved, but they that have the Spirit of Christ given unto them. But it is not the Spirit of Christ given to the elect, that doth work out the salvation of their souls within them, for that was obtained by the blood of the Man Christ Jesus on the cross (Heb 9:19 compared with Heb 13:12).

Again, every one that is, or shall be saved, must, and shall have the Spirit of Christ within them; yet doth it not follow, that to preach Christ (only) within, is the only doctrine of salvation. For then also the preaching of the blood of Christ shed on the cross, as I said before, must be of non effect. But he that doth preach the doctrine of salvation aright, must first begin to preach that doctrine that Paul preached in 1Corinthians 15:3,4. "For I delivered unto you (saith he) first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he arose again the third day according to the scriptures." Now Christ, or the Spirit of Christ, is received by such preaching as this is, as is clear from that scripture (Acts 10:38-44). Where Peter speaking of the word that was published throughout all Judea: "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth (or which dwelt at Nazareth) with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; (saith Peter) whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raise up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him, after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead." And is that all? No, But "to him give all the prophets witness, (to hem, even Jesus of Nazareth whom the Jews crucified on the tree) that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission ( or forgiveness) of sins." Now mark. And "while Peter yet spake these word, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." While Peter spake these words, that by Jesus of Nazareth forgiveness of sins was preached to them that believe in his name, "the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word." Namely, which Peter spake: This is the way in which the Spirit is given? namely, by preaching a crucified Christ.

But now, no man can be saved without Christ, or the Spirit of Christ be given to him, because he cannot be able to lay hold savingly of, and to hope for that glory that Christ as he is God-man hath accomplished in his own person without, unless he have the Spirit. But farther, thou sayest; Is it not the whole mystery of salvation, God manifested in the flesh?

Answ. Truly, to know that God out of love to poor sinners, did in the fulness of time send forth his only begotten Son, who is equal with his Father, to be born of a woman, and made under the law, might receive the adoption of sons; this is to know the mystery of godliness. Therefore, when the scriptures say, God was manifested in the flesh, they mean, God sent forth his Son, which was and is the word of God, God himself, and he was made flesh (John 1:14). And so in the nature of man he did become the Lamb of God, or the sacrifice of God, that doth take away the sins of the world (verse 29). Now here I might enlarge abundantly, but that would not be tedious.

Query 7. "Whether is it not possible, that many may profess as much of Christ without, as thou hast said of him, and yet be damned; and if this be the faith to profess him born, dead, risen and ascended without; then is there any unbeliever in England? seeing all in the outward sound believes, and professes as much as thou hast said. Yea, or nay?"

Answ. 1. I know there are many that do profess in word, that Christ was born, dead, risen, and ascended without, and yet may be damned. Yet he that doth really, with the faith of the operation of God, believe these things, and doth also apply the virtue and merit of the same to themselves for justification and life, shall be saved. "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Rom 10:9 And also 1Cor 15:2). "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you.." What was that? why, "how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and rose again," &c.

(2.) It is not faith, only to talk of him with the mouth, but as I said before, to believe the same by the operation of the Spirit in our hearts. If this be faith, (sayest thou) to profess him born, dead, risen and ascended without, then is there any unbeliever in England? [I reply] All that profess this do not truly believe it; for to profess in word alone, and believe in heart, are two things. Secondly, If to profess this were the Faith, yet for the Quakers will not profess him ascended without, neither making intercession without, but contrarywise strike at this doctrine.

Query 8. "Whether hath that man faith in Christ that is not changed in the nature, and is not the liar and slanderer an unbeliever, and of the cursed nature, yea or no?"

Answ. He that hath faith in Christ is a new creature: and the liar and slanderer is and unbeliever: and if he live and die in that condition, his state is very sad, though if he turn quickly, or else look to yourselves, for you are the men, as is clear by your discourse.