Chapter XI (19)

"If two of you shall agree on earth, as touching anything that they shall ask [according to God's will] it shall be done for them," saith Christ, "of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt 18:19). Now, I say, if things prayed for in assemblies must first be jointly agreed upon, then must such things, by some one, or more of that assembly, be first propounded, expounded, and proved to be good by the word. Good for such persons, seasons, or things, for which such prayer is made. And, besides, the gifts required to do this, if this is not teaching I am out. And yet this must first be done to instruct all present, to help their faith, and to quicken their spirits to, and in that worship. That they may as one man have their eyes unto the Lord (Zech 9:1). But that this power is given to women, to ordinary believing ones that are in the highest account in churches, I do not believe. I do not believe they should minister to God in prayer before the whole church, for then I should be a Ranter or a Quaker; nor do I believe they should do it in their own womanish assembly, for the reason urged before. And I will add, if brethren not heretofore called by the church to open scriptures, or to speak in the church to God in prayer, [9] are not at first to be admitted to do this, but before the elders or principal brethren, that they may hear and judge (1 Cor 14:26-29). How can it be thought to be meet or lawful for women, of whom it must be supposed, that they have received no such gifts, that they should use this power? I say, how can it be imagined that the women should be bound of God to do this in such sort as doth utterly exclude the elders and all the men in the congregation from a possibility of understanding and of judging of what they do? And yet this is the doctrine of Mr. K.; for he saith, "That the Spirit of God is promised to women to this very end, that they may pray together, apart from men." But God is not the author of this confusion in the churches.

2. But secondly, As teaching by prayer in assemblies, is thus set on foot; so every one also that shall in such meetings be the mouth of the whole, to God, ministereth so, doctrine to that assembly, as well as presenteth petitions to God. Else how can that assembly say AMEN at their prayer or giving of thanks? For to say AMEN is an effect of conviction, or of edification received of the stander by, from him that now is so ministering in that assembly before God (1 Cor 14:15-17). Yea, I believe that they that pray in assemblies, or that shall give thanks for mercies received there, ought to labour to speak, not only with fervency of words, but with such soundness of doctrine while they mention, urge, or plead the promise with God, that that whole assembly may be enlightened, taught, taken, and carried away in their spirits, on the wing of that prayer, and of faith, to God, whose face they are come to seek, and whose grace they are gathered together to beg. Now this is called praying and praising, to the teaching and edifying of others, as by the scripture afore named is made appear (1 Cor 14:14-19). But by what word of God the sisters of the respective churches may set up this way of teaching of one another in their assemblies, I am ignorant of.

Third, The Holy Ghost doth particularly insist upon the inability of women, as to their well managing of the worship now under consideration, and therefore it ought not to be presumed upon by them. They are forbidden to teach, yea to speak in the church of God. And why forbidden, but because of their inability. They cannot orderly manage that worship to God, that in assemblies is to be performed before him; I speak now of our ordinary believing ones, and I know none extraordinary among the churches. They are not builded to manage such worship, "they are not the image and glory of God, as the men are" (1 Cor 11:7). They are placed beneath, and are called the glory of the man. Wherefore they are weak, and not permitted to perform public worship to God. When our first mother, who was not attended with those weaknesses, either sinful or natural, as our women now are, stept out of her place but to speak a good word for worship, you see how she was baffled, and befooled therein; she utterly failed in the performance, though she briskly attempted the thing. Yea she so failed thereabout, that at one clap she overthrew, not only, as to that, the reputation of women for ever, but her soul, her husband, and the whole world besides (Gen 3:1-7). The fallen angel knew what he did when he made his assault upon the woman. His subtilty told him that the women was the weaker vessel. He knew also that the man was made the head in worship, and the keeper of the garden of God. The Lord God took the man, said unto the man, commanded the man, and made him keeper of the garden (Gen 2:15-17). Wherefore the management of worship belonged to him. This, the serpent, as I said, was aware of. And therefore he comes to the woman, says to the woman, and deals with the woman about it, and so overcomes the world. Wherefore it is from this consideration that Paul tells Timothy that he permitted not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. But to call the church or parts thereof together, to perform solemn worship, and in such a call to exclude or shut out the men, is an usurping of that authority over them to a high degree. And he renders the reason of this his prohibition thus, "For Adam was first formed, then Eve, [and therefore had the headship in worship]. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, was in the transgression" (1 Tim 2:13,14). But again, it should seem, methinks, if women must needs be managers of worship in assemblies, they should do it, as Eve, before Adam, in presence of the men: But that I think none will allow, though that would be the way best to correct miscarriages; how then should it be thought convenient for them to do it alone. If children are not thought fit to help to guide the ship with the mariners, shall they be trusted so much as with a boat at sea alone. The thing in hand is a parallel case.

Fourth, If the weightiness of this worship be, as indeed it is, so great, that the strongest and best able to perform it do usually come off with blushing, and with repentance for their shortness, as to the well performance thereof; though they engage therein by good and lawful authority; what will they do who are much weaker here, and when, as Eve, they set to it in a way of usurping of authority, and of their own head and will. To offer strange fire with incense, which was a type of prayer, you know what it cost Nadab and Abihu, though men, and the sons of Aaron. [Yet] Mr. K. cries the sisters, the women, the women's meetings, and the like, and how they have prevailed with heaven. Poor man, I am sorry for his weakness, and that he should show that himself is so nunnish[10] in such a day as this.

But to return, as all worship in assemblies ought to be performed with the most exact order and solemnity; so this of prayer with that, if possible, that is more than all the rest; and therefore this makes it more heavy still. When men preach they have to do with men, but when they pray in assemblies they have to do both with men and with God at once. And I say, if it be so great a matter to speak to men before God; how great a matter is it to speak to men and God at once; to God by way of petition, and to men by way of instruction. But I am persuaded if those most fond of the women's meetings for prayer were to petition the king for their lives, they would not set women to be their advocates to him; specially if the king should declare beforehand by law, that he permitted not a woman in an open auditory to speak before him.

There are also many temptations that attend the duty of praying in assemblies, especially those that are immediately employed therein. These temptations, they awake, are aware of, are forced to wrestle with, and greatly to groan under. Wherefore we put not the weak upon this service; not the weak, though they be men; not they in the presence of the strong. How then should the weakest of all be put upon it, and that when together by themselves. Men, though strong, and though acting by lawful authority in this, are not able, but with unutterable groans, to do it: how then shall all those that attempt it without that authority, perform it as acceptable worship to God? This work, therefore, is as much too heavy for our women now, as that about which Eve engaged in at first, was too heavy for her. But,

Fifth, If this worship may be managed by the sisterhood of the churches, being congregated together in the absence of their men: of what signification is it that man is made head of the woman as well in worship as in nature? (1 Cor 11:3,7). Yea more, why are the elders of the churches called watchmen, overseers, guides, teachers, rulers, and the like? If this kind of worship may be performed, without their conduct and government? (Eze 3:17, 33:7; Acts 20:28; Eph 4:11; Psa 28:72; Heb 13:17).

1. Why is man made the head of the woman in worship, in the worship now under debate, in that worship that is to be performed in assemblies? And why are the women commanded silence there, if they may congregate by themselves, and set up and manage worship there? Worship was ordained before the woman was made, wherefore the word of God at the first did not immediately come to her, but to him that was first formed, and made the head in worship (Gen 2:16-18; 1 Cor 14:35,36). And hence it is that women are so strictly tied up to this headship; that if they will learn, they must ask their husbands at home (v 35), not appoint meetings of their own sex to teach one another. "But what must they do that have unbelieving ones? and what must they do that have none?" Answer, Let them attend upon those ordinances that God has appointed for the building up and perfecting of the body of Christ (Eph 4:11-13), and learn as the angels do (Eph 3:10; 1 Peer 1:12).

2. But I say, if they must do as Mr. K. says, they are in duty bound, to wit, meet by themselves apart from their men, and as so met, perform this most solemn worship to God: how shall the elders and overseers, the watchmen, rulers, and guides in worship, perform their duty to God, and to the church of God, in this, since from this kind of worship they are quite excluded, and utterly shut out of doors: unless it be said, that to watch, to oversee, and to guide, in the matter and manner of performance of this worship in assemblies, is no part of the watchman or overseer's work; or in their lawful absence, the work of the principal men of the church. Nor will the faithful and dutiful overseer leave worship, no, not in the best part of the congregation assembled to worship, to be performed by every weak brother, though I believe it might with more warrant be left to them, than to the strongest among our ordinary ones of the other sex.

Also our elders and watchmen covet, if we have unbelievers to behold, that our worship be performed by the most able. How then shall it be thought that they should be so silly, to turn a company of weak women loose to be abused by the fallen angels? Can it be thought that their congregation, since they have it without a command, shall fare better among those envious spirits than those that are lawfully called shall fare before the world? Watchman, watchman, see to thy duty, look well to the manner of worship that is to be performed according to thy commission. Trust not Eve, as Adam did, with worship, and with its defence. Look that all things be done in worship as becomes thee--a head, both in nature and by office--and leave not so solemn a part of worship as prayer, in company, is, and ought to be accounted to be done; thou canst by no means tell how. Watch in and over all such worship thyself. Be diligent to know the state of thy flocks, whether they be flocks of men, or women; and look well to thy herds, and thou shalt have milk enough, not only for men and babes, but also for the maintenance and life of thy maidens. So that they need not go with their pitchers to seek water there where their God has not sent them (Prov 27:23-27). Besides the shepherds' tents is provision sufficient for them (Cant 1:8). But, for a conclusion of this, I will ask this man, If he doth not, by pleading for these women's meetings, declare, that the women, without their men, are better able by themselves to maintain divine worship, than the men are without their elders? forasmuch as he himself will not allow that the men should always perform worship without his oversight and inspection, and yet will plead for the women to have such worship in their congregation, among themselves, excluding for ever the men therefrom. For, saith he, the Spirit is promised to be given to them to that very end, that they may meet together to pray apart without their men.

And now for Mr. K.'s arguments, which, as I said, are in number four.

1. We will take the scriptures from them; and,

2. Then pick the bones of their carcasses.

Yet in my taking of the scriptures from his arguments, I will do it in a way that is most to his advantage, making of each of them as formidable an objection as I can against myself.

Objection.

Miriam took a timbrel in her hand, and went out, and all the women went out after her, praising God with timbrels and dances for their deliverances. Therefore the women of the churches of Christ may appoint meetings of their own, as separate from their brethren, and then and there perform divine worship, [by] prayer, in that, their congregation, without their men (Exo 15:20,21). Answer

1. Miriam was a prophetess: and, I suppose, that none of our women will pretend to be such. And though Mr. K. labours to get over this, by saying that the work of praising was incumbent upon all: yet by his leave, judgment, and discretion, and a spirit of conduct suitable to the duty, as we read of, was found among the women in none but she. Why is it else said, Miriam led them forth; Miriam the prophetess did it. Another, by Mr. K.'s argument, might have done it as well. Thus degrades he the prophetess, that he may get favour with the ordinary women, and prompt them on to a work that he has a superstitious affection for.

2. But his assertion is of no weight. The women were not left in that extraordinary service to the spirit of ordinary believers. Nor can I count it but crooked dealing to bring in extraordinary persons, in their extraordinary acts, to prove it lawful for ordinary persons to do that which is not commanded them.

3. But though Miriam did go forth, or come out with the women, yet not from the men, into some remote place in the wilderness to worship by themselves. She rather went or came out, and the women followed her from the place by the sea, where now they were, after Moses, to sing as her sex became her; for she, though an extraordinary woman, might not make herself an equal with Moses and Aaron, therefore she came behind in worship, yet with the body of the people, as it is said, "So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea" (Exo 15:22). Women, though prophetesses, must wear some badge or other of inferiority to those that are prophets indeed (1 Cor 11:3-9). And I choose to understand that Miriam did this. (1.) Because the text last mentioned says so. (2.) Because Miriam, and all the women, did sing with the words of the men, verse 1 compared with 21. (3.) For that they did sing them after the men, as taking them from their mouth. For, saith the text, Miriam answered them, and so handed it down to them of her sex, saying, "Sing ye to the Lord, for he hath triumphed gloriously" (vv 1,21). (4.) For that she commanded the women that they should sing the same song: hence it is called the song of Moses, not of Miriam (Rev 15:3). (5.) From all which I conclude, that Miriam did not draw the women away into some such place where neither Moses, nor Aaron, nor the elders of Israel could see, behold, and observe their manner of worship. But that she, as her modesty became her, did lead them out from that place where they were, to sing, and to dance, and to praise God, after the men. (6.) This scripture therefore favoureth not this man's opinion, to wit, "That it is the duty of the women of the churches of Christ to separate themselves from their brethren, and as so separate, to perform divine worship by themselves."

Objection.

Esther, the queen, performed, with her maidens, this duty of prayer, without their men: therefore the women of gospel churches may separate themselves from their brethren, and perform it among themselves (Esth 4:16).

Answer.

1. Esther was in the house of the king's chamberlain, and could not at this time come to her brethren; No, not to her uncle, Mordecai, to consult how to prevent an approaching judgment. Yea, Mordecai and she were fain to speak one to another by Hatach, whom the king had appointed to attend upon the queen (vv 5-9). So she could by no means, at that time, have communion with the church. No marvel, therefore, if she fasted with her maidens alone: for so she must now do, or not do it at all. But I will here ask this, our argumentator, whether Esther did count it a burden or a privilege thus now to be separated form her brethren, and so forced to perform this work as she did? If a privilege, let him prove it. If a burden, he has little cause to make use of it to urge that, her practice then, for a ground to women that are at liberty, to separate from their brethren to perform such worship by themselves in their company, without their men.

2. We do not read that she desired that any of the women that were at liberty should come from the men to be with her; whence we may gather, that she preferred their liberty to worship with men, far beyond a woman's meeting. She counted that too many, by herself and her maidens, were in such bondage already.

3. Neither did she attempt to take that unavoidable work upon herself, but as begging of the men that she might, by their faith and prayers, be borne up therein; clearly concluding that she did count such work too hard for women to perform by themselves, without the help of men (vv 15,16).

4. Besides this woman's meeting, as Mr. K. would have it, was made up of none but the queen and her household maids, and with but few of them; nor will we complain of our honest women when the case is so that they cannot go out to the church to do this, if they pray with their maids at home.

5. But what if Esther did pray with her maids in her closet, because she could not come out to her brethren. Is it fair to make the necessity of a woman in bondage a law to women at liberty? This argument, therefore, is erroneous, and must not have this text to show it up; we therefore take it away from his words and proceed to a sight of his next.

Objection.

But it is said by the prophet Zecharias, that the Spirit is promised to be given, in New Testament times, to women, that they may pray together apart from men (Zech 12:11-13).

Answer. The text says nothing so, but is greatly abused by this man. Indeed, it says their wives shall mourn apart, but it saith not, they shall do so together. Yea, that they shall separate themselves by the dictate of God, from their brethren, to do so, is that which this text knows nothing of. Sometimes many may be together, apart from others; but why Mr. K., to serve his purpose, should rack and strain this text to justify his woman's meeting, I see no reason at all. My reason against him is, for that the look here upon him whom we have pierced, which is to be the cause of this mourning, is to be by an immediate revelation of the Holy Ghost, who doth not use to tell before hand when he will so come down upon us. But such a meeting as Mr. K. intends must be the product of consultation and time. "I will pour," saith God, "upon the house of David--the spirit of grace and of supplications: and then they shall look"; that is, when that spirit so worketh with them as to enable them so to do. Now, I say, I would know, since this mourning is to be the effect of this look, and so before one is aware (Cant 6:12), whether Mr. K. can prove that these women were to have an item beforehand, when they should have this look. But as it would be ridiculous thus to conclude, so as ridiculous is it to think to prove his women's meetings from hence.

Nor doth the conclusion that he hath made hereupon prove more but that he is ignorant of the work of the Spirit in this matter, or that his fondness for the women's meetings hath made him forget his own experience. For how can one that never had but one such look upon Jesus Christ, draw such a conclusion from hence. And that all those women should have this look at the same time, even all the women of the house of David and of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that they might, all of them, by the direction of the Holy Ghost, separate themselves from their men to hold a woman's meeting or meetings by themselves for this, is more fictitious than one would imagine a man should dream. If he says that the women have a promise to have this look when they please, or that they are sure to have it because it is entailed to THEIR meeting, for this seems to come nearest his conclusion: yet what unavoidable inconveniences will flow therefrom, I leave to any to judge. But I take this mourning to be according as another of the prophets says, "They shall be on the mountains like doves of the valleys, all of them mourning, every one for his iniquity" (Eze 7:16). All those souls, therefore, that shall be counted worthy to have this look shall mourn apart, or by themselves, when they have it. For though a man cannot appoint to himself when he will repent of his sins, or when the Holy Ghost will work, yet he shall repent indeed; he shall do it, I say, when HE doth so work, not staying till another can do so too. And since our own iniquity will then make us best consider our own case, mourning apart, or every one for their own iniquity, is most naturally proper thereto. And this is the mourning that shall be in the house of David, Jerusalem, the church, both with men and women, at all times when the Holy Ghost shall help us to look upon him whom we have pierced. Pray God give Mr. K. and myself more of these looks upon a crucified Christ, for then we shall understand this and other such like scriptures otherwise than to draw such incoherent inferences from them as he doth.

Objection.

"Women were wont in gospel times to meet together to pray. Therefore the women in gospel churches may separate themselves from their brethren to perform divine worship by themselves without their men" (Acts 16:13). This is another of his scriptures, brought to uphold this fancy: But,

Answer

1. It is not said that the women of churches met together alone to pray. But that Paul went down to a river-side where prayer was wont to be made, and spake unto the women that resorted thither. It looks therefore most agreeable to the word, to think that there the law was read by the Jewish priests to the proselyted women of that city, and that prayer, as was their custom in all such service, was intermixed therewith. But this is but conjectural. And yet, for all that, it is better grounded, and hath more reason on its side, than hath any of this man's arguments for the opinion of his women's meetings. But,

2. There was there at that time no gospel church of Christ, nor before that any gospel ministry, consequently no church obedience. Should it then be granted, that there were none but women at that meeting, and that their custom was to meet at that river-side to pray, it doth not therefore follow, that their practice was to be a pattern, a rule, a law to women in churches, to separate from their brethren, to perform divine worship, in their own woman's congregation without their men.

3. There was there no gospel believer. Lydia herself, before Paul came thither, had her heart shut up against the faith of Jesus Christ; and how a company of strangers to gospel faith, should in that their doing, be a pattern to the women in churches, a pattern of Christian worship, I do not understand.

4. If Paul's call to Philippi had been by the vision of a woman, or woman's meeting: what an argument would this man have drawn from thence to have justified his women's meetings? But since it was by a man, he hath lost an argument thereby. Though he, notwithstanding, doth adventure to say, that God so approved of that meeting, as then, and at that time, to take advantage to make known his mind and will to them concerning Jesus Christ.

5. And now I am in, since Mr. K. will needs have this scripture to justify such a practice, I wonder that he so lightly overlooked Paul's going to that meeting, for thither he went to be sure (Acts 16:13-16). Yea how fairly, to his thinking, might he have pleaded, that Paul by this act of his, was a great lover, countenancer and commender of those he calls the women's meetings. Paul went to the women's meeting at Philippi, therefore it is lawful for the women of gospel churches to separate from their brethren, and to congregate by themselves for the performance of some parts of divine worship. I say how easily might he have said this, and then have popt in those two verses above quoted, and so have killed the old one? [11]For the word lies liable to be abused by the ignorance of men, and it had been better than it is, if this had been the first time that this man had served it so, for the justification of his rigid principles; but when men, out of a fond conceit of their own abilities, or of prejudice to them that contradict their errors, are tempted to shew their folly, they will not want an opportunity from false glosses put upon the text, to do it.

6. But Paul went to that company to preach Christ's gospel to them, not for that they merited his coming, but of the grace of God, as also did Peter and John, when at the hour of prayer they went up into the temple, and Paul into the synagogue at Antioch (Acts 3:1-3, 13:14-16). But as fairly might this man have urged, that the healing of the lame man that lay at that time at the gate of the temple, and the conversion of them by Paul at Antioch, was by the procurement of the prayers of the sisters and by their reading of the law in that synagogue at Antioch, as to argue as he has done, that God was so well pleased, or so well approved of that woman's meeting as he feigns it at Philippi, as to send, &c. to them his minister.

7. But again, that this woman's meeting should be so deserving, and that while they were without the faith of Christ, as to procure a gospel minister to be sent unto them, that Christ might to them be made known, and yet that so few of them should be converted to the faith, seems a greater paradox to me. For we read not that one of the women then, or of them of the town, that did use to go to that meeting (for Lydia was of Thyatira), was ever converted to Christ; brethren we read of several, but we hear not of any one more of those women (v 40). But Lydia worshipped God, therefore her practice might prevail. Although it is said she worshipped God, yet she was but a proselyte, as those Acts 13 were, and knew no more of Christ than the eunuch did (Acts 8). But hold, she had faith, will that make all practice acceptable; yea, law and commandment to others, and the work of those that have none, meritorious? But we must touch upon these things anon.

Objection.

"But (saith Mr. K.) Malachi 3:16 doth countenance these meetings."

Answer.

Not at all; though Mr. K. has pleased to change a term in the text, to make it speak his mind; for he has put out thought, and put in call; but all will not do his work; for when he has done what he can, it will be difficult to make that scripture say, It is the duty of women in gospel churches to separate from their brethren, to perform divine worship among themselves.

Objection.

"But Jude 20 doth justify these meetings, except," saith he, "any will say, women are not to be built up in their most holy faith."

Answer.

How fain would the man lay hold on something, only he wants divine help, that is, the word of God, to bottom his things upon. But doth the apostle here at all treat of the women and their meetings, or are they only the beloved; and to be built up, &c. speaks he not there to the church, which consisteth of men and women? and are not men the more noble part in all the churches of Christ? But can women no other way be built up in their most holy faith, but by meetings of their own without their men? But, Building up YOURSELVES, I suppose is the thing he holds by. But cannot the church, and every woman in it, build up themselves without their woman's meetings? wherefore have they the word, their closet, and the grace of meditation, but to build up themselves withal? He saith not, "Build up one another," but if he had, it might well have been done without a woman's meeting. But anything to save a drowning man. This text then is written to the church of Christ, by which it is exhorted to faith and prayer; but it speaks not a word of a woman's meeting, and therefore it is fooling with the word to suggest it. I cannot therefore, while I see this impertinent dealing, but think our argumentator dotes, or takes upon him to be a head of those he thinks to rule over. The woman's letter to me also seems to import the same, when they say, "Mr. K. would desire to know what objections you have against it (his arguments), and he is ready to give his further advice."

Thus having taken from his arguments those holy words of God which he has abused, to make them stand; I come next to the arguments themselves, and intend to pick their bones for the crows.

1stly,

He saith, "That the same spirit that was in Miriam, is also in all God's servants for the same end, both to pray for mercies we stand in need of, and to praise God for mercies received."

Answer.

1. But the question is, whether Miriam did, as she led out the women to dance, act only as an ordinary saint. And if you evade this, you choose the tongue of the crafty, and use the words of deceit; for she managed that work as she was "Miriam the prophetess"; and in your next, pray tell your women so.

2. But as Miriam the prophetess, she did not lead the women from their men, to worship in some place remote by themselves, as we have shewed before.

2dly, He saith, "That God hath promised to pour out his Spirit in gospel times to that very end, that women might pray together apart from men."

Answer.

1. Not mentioning again what was said before: I add, if by men, he means the brethren, the prophet will not be his voucher, for he neither saith nor intimates such a thing.

2. And how far short this saying is, of making of God and his holy prophet, the author of schism in worship, and an encouragement unto schism therein, it is best in time that he looks to it. For if they may withdraw to do thus at one time, they may withdraw to do thus at another. And if the Spirit is given to them to this very end, that they may go by themselves from the church, to perform this divine worship at one time, they may, for what bounds this man has set them, go by themselves to do thus always. But, as I said, the whole of this proposition being false, the error is still the greater.

3dly,

"God," saith he, "hath so well approved of women meeting together to pray in gospel times, as then, and at that time, to take occasion to make known his mind and will to them concerning Jesus Christ" (Acts 16:13).

Answer.

Let the reader consider what was said before, and now it follows; if this assertion be true, then the popish doctrine of merit is good, yea the worst sort of it, which is, works done before faith. For that we read of none of these women save Lydia feared or worshipped God; and yet saith he, God so approved of that meeting as then, and at that time, to send them his gospel, which is one of the richest blessings; nor will it help to lay Cornelius, now in my way, for the deservings here were, for ought we read, of women that feared not God. Here Lydia only bare that character; it is said SHE worshipped God, but she was not all the women. But Mr. K. saith thus of them all. I know also there was faith in some in Messias to come, though when he came, they knew not his person; but this is not the case neither; these women, who held up as he feigned, this meeting, were not as we read of, of this people.

4thly,

He said, "That Esther and her maids fasted and prayed, and the Lord gave a gracious return, or answer and deliverance." That is, to the church, that then was under the rage of Haman.

Answer.

Let the reader remember what was said before, and now I ask this man,

1. Whether Mordecai and the good men then did not pray and fast as well as she? And if so, Whether they might not obtain at least, some little of the mercy, as well as those women? If so,

2. Whether Mr. K., in applying the deliverance of this people to the prayer of the queen and her maids, for he lays it only there, be not deceitfully arguing, and do not tend to puff up that sex, to their hurt and damage! Yea whether it doth not tend to make them unruly and headstrong? But if they be more gently inclined to obedience, no thanks to Mr. K.

3. And if I should ask Mr. K. who gave him authority to attribute thus the deliverance of this people, to who and what prayers he please, I suppose it would not be easy for him to answer. The text saith not that the prayers of these women procured the blessing. But Mr. K. hath here a woman's meeting to vindicate, and therefore it is that he is thus out in his mind. Prayers were heard and the church was delivered. And I doubt not but that these good women had hand and heart in the work. But should all be admitted that Mr. K. hath said as to this also, yet this scripture, as hath already been proved, will not justify his woman's meeting.

5thly,

"He makes his appeal to the women, if they have not obtained, by their prayers in these their meetings, many blessed returns of prayer from God, both to themselves and the church of God."

Answer.

I count this no whit better than the very worst of his paper, for besides the silliness of his appeal, by which he makes these good women to be judges in their own cause, his words have a direct tendency in them to puff them up to their destruction. I have wondered sometimes, to see when something extraordinary hath happened to the church of God for good, that a few women meeting together to pray, should be possessed with a conceit, that they fetched the benefit down from heaven, when perhaps ten thousand men in the land prayed for the mercy as hard as they. Yea I have observed, that though the things bestowed, were not so much as thought of by them, yet they have been apt to conclude that their meeting together has done it. But poor women, you are to be pitied; your tempter is to bear the blame, to wit, this man and his fellows.

I come now to some objections that may yet be thought on: and will speak a word to them.

Objection.

It is said, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (matt 18:20).

Answer.

To gather together in Christ's name, is to gather together by his authority; That is, by his law and commandment (Acts 4:17,18,30, 5:28,40; Col 3:17). But we have no law of Christ, nor commandment, that the women of this or that church, should separate themselves from their brethren, to maintain meetings among themselves, for the performing of divine worship: and therefore such meetings cannot be in his name; that is, by his authority, law, and commandment; and so ought not to be at all.

Objection.

"But women may, if sent for by them of their own sex, come to see them when they are sick, and when so come together, pray in that assembly before they part."

Answer.

The law of Christ is, "Is any sick among you? let him [and the woman is included in the man] call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him," &c. And to this injunction there is a threefold promise made. (1.) "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick." (2.) "And the Lord shall raise him up." (3.) "And if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him" (John 5:14,15). And considering, that this advice is seconded with so much grace: I think it best in all such cases, as in all other, to make the word of God our rule.

Objection.

"But women have sometimes cases, which modesty will not admit should be made known to men, what must they do then?"

Answer.

Their husbands and they are one flesh, and are no more to be accounted two. Let them tell their grief to them. Thus Rachel asked children of her husband, and went not to a nest of women to make her complaint to them (Gen 30:1). Or let them betake themselves to their closets, with Rebecca (Gen 25:20-23). Or if they be in the assembly of the saints, let them pray in their hearts, with Hannah. And if their petition be lawful, I doubt not but they may be heard (1 Sam 1:13).

Our author, perhaps, will say, I have not spoken to his question; which was, "Whether women, fearing God, may meet to pray together? And whether it be lawful for them so to do?"

But I answer, I have: with respect to all such godly women as are in the churches of the saints (1 Cor 14:33-35 compared with vv 15-17). And when he has told us, that his question respected only those out of churches, then will I confess that I did mistake him. Yet he will get nothing thereby, forasmuch as his question, to be sure, intends those in special. Also his arguments are for the justifying of that their practice. Now the reason why I waved the form of his question, was, because it was both scanty and lean of words, as to the matter of the controversy in hand: also I thought it best to make it more ample, and distinct, for the edification of our reader. And if after all, Mr. K. is not pleased at what I have done, let him take up the question, and answer it better. The man perhaps may fly to the case of utter necessity, and so bring forth another question, to wit, whether, if the men of a church should all die, be murdered, or cast into prison: the women of that church may not meet together to pray? And whether it be not lawful for them so to do? But when he produceth a necessity for the putting of such a question, and then shall put it to me; I will, as God shall help me, give him an answer thereto.

But, may some say, Our women in this do not what they do of their own heads, they are allowed to do what they do by the church.

I answer, No church allowance is a foundation sufficient to justify that which is neither commanded nor allowed by the word. Besides, who knows not, that have their eyes in their heads, what already has, and what further may, come into the churches, at such a gap as this. And now to give the reader a cautionary conclusion.

Caution 1.

Take heed of letting the name, or good show of a thing, beget in thy heart a religious reverence of that thing; but look to the word for thy bottom,[12] for it is the word that authorizeth, whatever may be done with warrant in worship to God; without the word things are of human invention, of what splendour or beauty soever they may appear to be. Without doubt the Friars and Nuns, and their religious orders, were of a good intent at first, as also compulsive vows of chastity, single life, and the like. But they were all without the word, and therefore, as their bottom wanted divine authority, so the practice wanted sanctity by the Holy Ghost. The word prayer is, of itself, in appearance so holy, that he forthwith seems to be a devil that forbids it. And yet we find that prayers have been out of joint, and disorderly used; and therefore may by one, without incurring the danger of damnation, be called into question; and if found without order by him, he may labour to set them in joint again (Matt 6:5-8, 23:14; James 4:3).

I am not of the number of them that say, "What profit should we have if we pray unto God?" (Job 21:15). But finding no good footing in the word for that kind of service we have treated about above, and knowing that error and human inventions in religion will not offer themselves, but with wiped lips, and a countenance as demure as may be, and also being persuaded that this opinion of Mr. K. is vagrant, yea a mere alien as to the scriptures, I being an officer, have apprehended it, and put it in the stocks, and there will keep it, till I see by what authority it has leave to pass and repass as it lists, among the godly in this land.

Caution 2.

Yet by all that I have said, I never meant to intimate in the least, but that believing women are saints as well as men: and members of the body of Christ. And I will add, that as they, and we, are united to Christ, and made members of his mystical body, the fulness of him that fills all in all, so there is no superiority, as I know of, but we are all one in Christ. For, the man is not without the woman, nor "the woman without the man, in the Lord," (1 Cor 11:11) nor are we counted "as male or female" in him (Gal 3:28; Eph 1:23). Only we must observe that this is spoken of that church which is his true mystical body, and not of every particular congregation of professing Christians. The churches of Christ here and there are also called his body. But no church here, though never so famous, must be taken for that of which mention was made afore. [13]As Christ then has a body mystical, which is called his members, his flesh, and his bones (Eph 5:30), so he has a body politic, congregations modelled by the skill that his ministers have in his word, for the bearing up of his name, and the preserving of his glory in the world against Antichrist. In this church, order and discipline, for the nourishing up of the true mystical body of Christ, has been placed from the foundation of the world. Wherefore in this, laws, and statutes, and government, is to be looked after, and given heed unto, for the edification of that which is to arrive at last to a perfect man: to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ (1 Cor 12:27-30; Eph 4:11-13).

Now, where there is order and government by laws and statutes, there must, of necessity, be also a distinction of sex, degrees, and age. Yea, offices and officers must also be there, for our furtherance and joy of faith. From which government and rule our ordinary women are excluded by Paul; nor should it, since it is done by the wisdom of God, be any offence unto them.

In this church there are ofttimes many hypocrites, and formal professors, and heresies, "That they which are approved may be made manifest" (1 Cor 11:19). These therefore being there, and being suffered to act as they many times do, provoke the truly godly to contend with them by the word; for that these hypocrites, and formal professors, naturally incline to a denial of the power of godliness, and to set up forms of their own in the stead thereof (Mar 7:6-9; 2 Tim 3:5).

And this is done for the sake and for the good of those that are the true members of the body of Christ, and that are to arrive at his haven of rest: from whom those others at last shall be purged, and with them, all their things that offend. "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear let him hear" (Matt 13:43).

This church, that thus consisteth of all righteous, that are so in God's account: they are to have a house in heaven, and to be for God's habitation there. Who, then, shall be governed by their head without those officers and laws that are necessary here. And both at last shall be subject to him, that sometime did put all things under Christ, that God may be all in all (John 14:1-3; Eph 2:21; 1 Cor 15:23-27). Wherefore, my beloved sisters, this inferiority of yours will last but a little while. When the day of God's salvation is come, to wit, when our Lord shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, these distinctions of sexes shall be laid aside, and every pot shall be filled to the brim. For with a notwithstanding you shall be saved, and be gathered up to that state of felicity if you continue in faith, and charity, and holiness, with sobriety (1 Tim 2:15).

Caution 3.

I doubt not at all of the lawfulness of women's praying, and that, both in private and public: only when they pray publicly, they should not separate from, but join with the church in that work. They should also not be the mouth of the assembly, but in heart, desires, groans, and tears, they should go along with the men. In their closets they are at liberty to speak unto their God, who can bear with, and pity them with us; and pardon all our weakness for the sake of Jesus Christ.

And here I will take an occasion to say, there may be a twofold miscarriage in prayer, one in doctrine, the other in the frame of the heart. All are too much subject to the last, women [more easily] to the first. And for this cause it is, at least so I think, that women are not permitted to teach, nor speak in assemblies, for divine worship, but to be and to learn in silence (1 Cor 14:33-35, 15:33). For he that faileth as to the frame of his spirit, hurteth only himself: but he that faileth in doctrine corrupteth them that stand by. Let the women be alone with Rebecca in the closet; or, if in company, let her, with Hannah, speak to herself and to God; and not doubt, but if she be humble, and keep within compass, she shall be a sharer with her brethren in the mercy.

Caution 4.

Nor are women, by what I have said, debarred from any work or employ, unto which they are enjoined by the word. They have often been called forth to be God's witnesses, and have borne famous testimony for him against the sons of the sorceress and the whore.[14] I remember many of them with comfort, even of these eminent daughters of Sarah, whose daughters you also are, so long as you do well, and are not afraid with any amazement (1 Peter 3:1-6). What by the word of God, you are called unto, what by the word is enjoined you do; and the Lord be with you.

But this of the women's meetings; since, indeed, there is nothing for its countenance in the word, and since the calling together of assemblies for worship is an act of power, and belongeth to the church, elders, or chief men of the same: let me intreat you to be content, to be under subjection and obedience, as also saith the law. We hold that it is God's word that we are to look to, as to all things pertaining to worship, because it is the word that authorizeth and sanctifieth what we do.

Caution 5.

WOMEN! They are an ornament in the church of God on earth, as the ANGELS are in the church in heaven. Betwixt whom also there is some comparison, for they cover their faces in acts of worship (Isa 6:2; 1 Cor 11:10). But as the angels in heaven are not Christ, and so not admitted to the mercy-seat to speak to God, so neither are women on earth, [but] the man; who is to worship with open face before him, and to be the mouth in prayer for the rest. As the angels then cry, Holy, Holy, Holy, with faces covered in heaven: So let the women, cry, Holy, Holy, Holy, with their faces covered on earth: Yea, thus they should do, because of the angels. "For this cause ought the woman to have power," that is a covering, "on her head, because of the angels" (1 Cor 11:10). Not only because the angels are present, but because women and angels, as to their worship, in their respective places, have a semblance. For the angels are inferior to the great man Christ, who is in heaven; and the woman is inferior to the man, that truly worships God in the church on earth.