Chapter VI: Front Matter (6)

The situation of the Christian nations after death is a subject
that has called forth all the wisdom and talent of the philosopher
and the divine; and it is an opinion which is generally received,
that the destiny of man is irretrievably fixed at his death;
and that he is made either eternally happy, or eternally
miserable,--that if a man dies without a knowledge of God, he must
be eternally damned, without any mitigation of his punishment,
alleviation of his pain or the most latent hope of a deliverance
while endless ages shall roll along. However orthodox this
principle may be, we shall find that it is at variance with the
testimony of holy writ; for our Savior says that all manner of sin,
and blasphemy shall be forgiven men wherewith they shall blaspheme;
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven,
neither in _this world_, nor in the _world to come_; evidently
showing that there are sins which may be forgiven in the _world to
come_; although the sin of blasphemy cannot be forgiven.

Peter also in speaking concerning our Savior says that "He
went and preached unto spirits in prison, which sometime were
disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the
days of Noah." I Pet. iii: 19, 20. Here then, we have an account
of our Savior preaching to the spirits in prison; to spirits that
had been imprisoned from the days of Noah; and what did He preach
to them? that they were to stay there? Certainly not; let His own
declaration testify: 'He hath sent me to heal the broken hearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to
the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised." Luke iv: 18.
Isaiah has it: "_To bring out the prisoner from the prison_, and
them that sit in darkness _from the prison house_." Is. xlii: 7.
It is very evident from this that He not only went to preach to
them, but to deliver, or bring _them out of the prison house_.
Isaiah in testifying concerning the calamities that will overtake
the inhabitants of the earth says: "The earth shall reel to and
fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and
the transgressions thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall
fall and not {97} rise again. And it shall come to pass in that
day, that the Lord shall punish the hosts of the high ones that
are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they
shall be gathered together as prisoners are gathered in the pit,
and shall be _shut up in prison_, and after many days _shall they
be visited_." Thus we find that God will deal with all the human
family equally; and that as the antediluvians had their day of
visitation, so will those characters referred to by Isaiah, have
their time of visitation and deliverance, after having been many
days in prison.

The great Jehovah contemplated the whole of the events connected
with the earth, pertaining to the plan of salvation, before it
rolled into existence, or ever the "morning stars sung together
for joy," the past, the present and the future, were, and are with
Him one eternal now; He knew of the fall of Adam, the iniquities
of the antediluvians, of the depth of iniquity that would be
connected with the human family; their weakness and strength, their
power and glory, apostasies, their crimes, their righteousness and
iniquity; He comprehended the fall of man and their redemption; He
knew the plan of salvation and pointed it out; He was acquainted
with the situation of all nations and with their destiny; He
ordered all things according to the counsel of His _own_ will, He
knows the situation of both the living and the dead, and has made
ample provision for their redemption according to their several
circumstances and the laws of the Kingdom of God, whether in this
world, or in the world to come. The idea that some men form of the
justice and mercy of God, is too foolish for an intelligent man
to think of; for instance it is common for many of our orthodox
preachers to suppose that if a man is not what they call converted,
if he dies in that state, he must remain eternally in hell without
any hope:--

"Infinite years in torment must he spend
And never, never, never, have an end."

And yet this eternal misery is made frequently to rest upon the
merest casualty,--the breaking of a shoe-string, the tearing of
a coat of those officiating, or the peculiar location in which
a person lives may be the means indirectly of his damnation, or
the cause of his not being saved. I will suppose a case which is
not extraordinary: Two men who have been equally wicked, who have
neglected religion, are both of them taken sick at the same time;
one of them has the good fortune to be visited by a praying man,
and he gets converted a few minutes before he dies; the other
sends for three different praying men, a tailor, a shoemaker and a
tinman. The tinman has a handle to solder on to a can; the tailor
a button-hole to work on some coat that is needed in a hurry; and
the shoemaker has a patch to put on somebody's boot; they none
of them can go in time, the man dies and goes to hell; one of
these is exalted to Abraham's bosom; he sits down in the presence
of God, and enjoys eternal, uninterrupted happiness, while the
other who was equally as good as he, sinks to eternal damnation,
irretrievable misery and hopeless despair; because a man had a
boot to mend, the button-hole of a coat to work, or a handle to
solder on to a saucepan. The plans of Jehovah are not so unjust;
the statements of holy writ so visionary; nor the plan of salvation
for the human family so incompatible with common sense; at such
proceedings God would frown with indignation, angels would hide
their heads in shame; and every virtuous, intelligent man would
recoil. If human laws award to each man his deserts, and punish all
{98} delinquents according to their several crimes; surely the Lord
will not be more cruel than man, for He is a wise Legislator and
His laws are equitable, His enactments more just and His decisions
more perfect than those of man; and as man judges his fellow man
by law, and punishes him according to the penalty of that law,
so does the God of heaven judge "according to the deeds done in
the body." To say that the heathen would be damned because they
did not believe the gospel would be preposterous; and to say that
the Jews would all be damned that do not believe in Jesus, would
be equally absurd; for "how can they believe on him of whom they
have not heard; and how can they hear without a preacher; and _how
can he preach except he be sent_;" consequently neither Jew nor
heathen can be culpable for rejecting the conflicting opinions of
sectarianism, nor for rejecting any testimony but that which is
sent of God, for as the preacher cannot preach except he be sent,
so the hearer cannot believe without he hears a sent preacher; and
cannot be condemned for what he has not heard; and being without
law will have to be judged without law.

When speaking about the blessings pertaining to the gospel, and
the consequences connected with disobedience to its requirements,
we are frequently asked the question, What has become of our
fathers? Will they all be damned for not obeying the gospel,
when they never heard it? Certainly not. But they will possess
the same privilege that we here enjoy, through the medium of the
_everlasting_ Priesthood, which not only administers on earth but
in heaven, and the wise dispensations of the great Jehovah; hence
those characters referred to by Isaiah will be visited by this
Priesthood, and come out of their prison, upon the same principle
as those who were disobedient in the days of Noah, were visited by
our Savior (who possessed the everlasting Melchisedek Priesthood)
and had the gospel preached to them by Him in prison; and in order
that they might fulfill all the requisitions of God, their living
friends were baptized for their dead friends, and thus fulfilled
the requirement of God which says: "Except a man be born again of
water, and of the spirit he can in no wise enter into the kingdom
of heaven;" they were baptized of course, not for themselves, but
for their dead. Crysostum says that the Marchionites practiced
baptism for the dead, "after a catachumen was dead they hid a
living man under the bed of the deceased; then coming to the dead
man they asked him whether he would receive baptism, and he making
no answer, the other answered for him, and said that he would be
baptized in his stead; and so they baptized the living for the
dead."

The church of course at that time was degenerate, and that
particular form might be incorrect, but the thing is sufficiently
plain in the Scriptures, hence Paul, in speaking of the doctrine,
says, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if
the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
I Cor. 15: 29.

Hence it was that so great a responsibility rested upon the
generation in which our Savior lived; for, said He, "That upon you
may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood
of righteous Abel, unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Barachias,
whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto
you, all these things shall come upon this generation." Matt,
xxiii: 35, 36.

Hence as they possessed greater privileges than any other
generation, not only pertaining to themselves but to their dead,
their sin was greater, as they not only neglected their own
salvation but that {99} of their progenitors, and hence their blood
was required at their hands. And now as the great purposes of God
are hastening to their accomplishment and the things spoken of in
the prophets are fulfilling, as the Kingdom of God is established
on the earth, and the ancient order of things restored, the Lord
has manifested to us this duty and privilege, and we are commanded
to be baptized for our dead, thus fulfilling the words of Obadiah
when speaking of the glory of the latter day. "And saviors shall
come up on Mount Zion to judge the remnant of Esau; and the
kingdom shall be the Lord's." A view of these things reconciles
the Scriptures of truth, justifies the ways of God to man, places
the human family upon an equal footing, and harmonizes with every
principle of righteousness, justice and truth. We will conclude
with the words of Peter: "For the time past of our life may suffice
us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles. * * * For, for this
cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they
might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according
to God in the spirit."--Times and Seasons, Vol. 3, pages 759-761.

"_That moment that men seek to build up themselves, in preference
to the kingdom of God, and seek to hoard up riches, while the widow
and the fatherless, the sick and afflicted around they are in
poverty and want, it proves that their hearts are weaned from their
God_."

--_Brigham Young_.

"_We glory in our tribulation, because we know that God is with us,
that He is our friend, and that He will save our souls. We do not
care for them that can kill the body; they cannot harm our souls_."

--_Joseph Smith, December 16, 1818_.

Footnotes:

1. In a number of articles by Zenas H. Gurley, one of the founders of the "Reorganized" church, in the _Saints Herald_, Vol. I, the "Reorganization" is referred to as "a new organization of the Church." This agrees with the statement of the president of that church, in the _Saints Herald_, Feb. 17, 1904. Said he: "The Church, using the word to mean the Church rejected, has not been again received."

2. The font was dedicated November 8, 1841, by President Brigham Young in the presence of and under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Millennial Star 18: 744-745.

3. History of "Reorganized" church, Vol. 3, page 245.

4. Conference resolutions pamphlet of "Reorganized" church, page 82.

5. Editorial in "Saints Herald," Feb. 17, 1904.

6. In his testimony before the Circuit Court, at Kansas City, in the "Temple Lot" suit, he said: "No, sir, I did not state that I was ordained by my father; I did not make the statement. I was not ordained by my father as his successor; according to my understanding of the word _ordain_, I was not." Plaintiff's Abstract, page 79, paragraph 126.

7. In a communication from the president of the "Reorganized" church, which is now in the hands of the writer, the statement is made that there is nothing in sections 127 and 128 (CIX and CX "Reorganite" edition) of the Doctrine and Covenants, "to indicate that they are revelations. These articles refer only to the baptism for the dead." The Prophet Joseph, however, in these articles on baptism for the dead declares that they _are_ revelations. See sec. 127, verses 4, 6, 8 and 10; also 128, verse 2.

{100}

ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR FAULTS.

By Elder Orson F. Whitney in Millennial Star, 1882.

"He that humbleth himself shall be exaulted."--_Jesus_.

If there is one thing more than another in the character of a great man which challenges respect and admiration, and proves most conclusively his worthiness to the title, it is the readiness with which he acknowledges a fault, confesses an error, and manifests sincere repentance for wrong-doing. We would not be understood as affirming that none are great but those who evince this disposition, for that would be to the exclusion of many whose virtues well merit consideration and esteem; but we do feel confident in asserting that among the great they are the greatest, among the noble the noblest, and among the admired, most deserving of admiration.

Many people consider it an evidence of weakness to acknowledge a mistake or to own that they are ever in the wrong, and flatter themselves with the idea that they display true courage and heroic firmness by refusing to repent of an evil act, by declining to concede a personal imperfection, or persisting in a mistaken belief or practice after having been convinced of the error of their course. A more egregious blunder could scarcely be committed. The facts are exactly to the contrary. It is weakness which induces anyone, after having been persuaded of an error, to still cling to that error. It is not courage, it is cowardice, not firmness, but stubbornness, which prevents a person from acknowledging a fault, or repenting of an evil deed. The man of genuine courage is he who dares confess his follies and imperfections; the soul of strength and firmness, which everybody must honor and admire, is the one which forsakes and resists the allurements of evil, and stands up for the right in the face of every opposing power or influence.

Various opinions are entertained as to what constitutes greatness of character. With the ignorant masses it would be aristocratic rank, high official station, or the possession of unlimited wealth; with the more enlightened classes, military prowess or great intellectual achievements; but to the true Christian there is but one idea worthy to be accepted as a {101} criterion of guidance in the carving out and formation of a perfect character. The noblest Being that ever walked the earth, could claim no worldly rank or aristocratic title; the mightest character the world has ever seen came neither to dazzle by intellectual brilliance nor to devastate with fire and sword; the wealthiest and greatest of all the sons of God had not bread to eat nor where to lay his aching head. He was one who preached purity of mind and lowliness of heart, and practiced what he preached with all consistency. He taught his followers that moral worth was superior to mental endowment; that humility, not haughtiness, was characteristic of nobility on high; that all who would be masters hereafter, must expect to be servants in this probation; that it was far more heroic to save than to slaughter mankind, and that the chief lesson of life was to learn to sacrifice earthly things in order to lay up treasures in heaven. He taught that repentance of sins must necessarily precede redemption therefrom, since it was impossible for sin to inherit His holy kingdom. He exhorted to beware of self-righteousness, and declared that the publican, who with bended head and humility of heart cried out, "God be merciful unto me a sinner," was more to be justified than the proud and boastful Pharisee, who, instead of confessing his sins and humbly suing for forgiveness, stood erect in self-righteous conceit, thanking the Lord that he had no sins, and congratulating himself that he was pure and holy in the eyes of that being whose voice calls all men to repentance, and declares that all who say they are without sin deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.

Two classes of Pharisees abound in modern society; those who actually imagine they are without fault, and those who, though conscious of defects, stubbornly refuse to acknowledge them. The former, enveloped in pious vanity and lulled into fancied security by the delusive hope that their souls are already "saved," sit down in the very midst of the fight, take off their armor and lay aside their weapons, as complacently as if the battle was already won; while the others, like the inmates of a beleaguered city, conscious of weakness and certain of eventual defeat, but wilfully preferring death and dishonor to the merciful alternative of an honorable surrender, entrench themselves behind the weak walls of arrogance and pride, and await the onslaught of the all-conquering foe. Poor dupes of priestcraft and iniquity! The blind worshipper of self, however rapt in the ecstasies of sanctified egotism, will find too late that the warfare against sin ends only with life itself, and that "hopes of salvation," without truth for a {102} basis and reason for a guide, are as ineffectual as faith without works or zeal without judgment. As for those who knowingly wed themselves to error, loving darkness rather than light, and choosing the paths of sin to the ways of righteousness, the day of their disaster is near. The battering rams of eternal truth will soon be leveled at their crumbling walls, the refuge of lies will be swept away, and the acts of folly and wickedness they were once ashamed to confess, proclaimed in a voice of thunder from the house tops. It is a great mistake to suppose anything is to be lost by acknowledging sin, and covenanting to forsake it forever. On the contrary, everything is to be gained. God has declared that he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. How then can a man please God if he will not repent of his sins? How can he repent if he will not acknowledge that he has sins? And how can he claim that he has no sins without branding himself as a liar and consequently as a sinner in the sight of heaven?

It is the act of a hero to acknowledge an error. It is the act of a coward to deny or resent a righteous accusation. Herod was a coward when he imprisoned and beheaded John the Baptist for reprimanding him for committing the crime of adultery. David was never more a hero than when, on being accused of a similar misdeed, he humbly acknowledged his transgression. The contrast is sublime. Herod, the petty tetrarch, with the instincts of a guilty coward, resenting the imputation and wreaking vengeance upon his accuser; David, the illustrious monarch, with a thousand fold his power and prestige, bending from his throne before one of the meanest of his subjects, and humbly confessing the crime of which he was accused. David before Goliath was not so brave a man as David before Nathan the Prophet. Deprive him of one dark stain upon his life, and the royal son of Jesse stands out as one of the grandest characters in the history of the world. A king, wealthy and powerful, a warrior, mighty and renowned, a poet whose genius was the literary splendor of his age; but as a king he was never greater, as a warrior never mightier, as a poet never grander or more sublimely pathetic, than when he bowed his head and wept, exclaiming, "I have sinned against the Lord."

{103}

AN INTERVIEW IN THE ATLANTA CONSTITUTION ON THE "MORMON" FAITH,

With Ben. E. Rich, of

_The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints_.

(From the Atlanta Constitution, March 26, 1899.)

The Mormon conference held in Atlanta during the past week was fairly well attended, and the elders were assigned to their new fields of labor, and have left the city in pairs. It is the policy of the Mormon church to send their elders out two by two, traveling without purse or scrip; they receive no remuneration, so far as earthly reward is concerned, for the labor performed in the missionary field. They are called from the farm, from the store and other avocations of life to go to the various parts of the earth and proclaim the gospel as they understand it; remaining from two to three years, or until they are honorably released to return to their homes.

Elder Ben. E. Rich is President of the Southern States Mission, and has charge of the elders traveling in the states of Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina and Georgia. He was present at the conference just closed, and gave The Constitution the following interview concerning the doctrines of the Mormon faith. We present the same to our readers, as Mormonism from a Mormon standpoint:

Reporter--"Mr. Rich, I understand you are an Elder in the Mormon Church. Why is it called by that name?"

Elder Ben. E. Rich--"I am an Elder in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That is its proper title, as recognized by all its members. The word 'Mormon' is taken from {104} the Book of Mormon. It is the name of a prophet of God who lived on the American continent several hundred years ago, and who compiled and abridged the writings of other prophets who preceded him, and left his record, which was buried in a hill and was obtained by the Prophet Joseph Smith in this century and translated by him, through the gift and power of God."

"Oh, that I suppose is the Mormon Bible?"

"No, sir; the 'Mormon' Bible is the same as that which is received throughout Christendom, commonly known as the King James translation. We use no other Bible. The Book of Mormon is a record of the history and revelations of God to the people who formerly inhabited the Western Hemisphere, while the Bible records the history and revelations given upon the Eastern continent. They both run together and harmonize, being inspired with the same spirit, but they are separate and distinct, and the Book of Mormon is not called the Bible by the Latter Day Saints."

"Well, is not the Book of Mormon an addition to the Bible, and is it not in violation of the last chapter in the Bible, which says, 'If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book?'" (Rev. xxii: 18.)

"It is an addition to the Bible in one sense of the term, but not in the sense of the prohibition which you have cited. Man is forbidden to add to the words of the book which John the Beloved wrote by divine command, and is called the Apocalypse, or Book of Revelation. Compilers place that book last in the canon of scripture, but scholars state that the epistles of John were written later than the Revelation. Be that as it may, John himself must proclaim further revelation after writing the book, for he was told while in the vision, 'Thou must prophesy again before many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.' (Rev. x: 11.) There is no contradiction in this, because God, through His servants, or in any way He pleases, may reveal His will, give commandments and manifest light and truth. It is preposterous to think that God sealed up His own lips when He merely forbade man to add to what He reveals. That is a standing commandment, as it was embodied in the Mosaic law. 'Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it.' (Deut. iv: 2.) The common rendering of the words in the Book of Revelation when applied to the law given thousands of years before, would make all the prophets and apostles and Jesus Christ Himself transgressors of the commandment. It {105} simply means that when God reveals anything, man shall not add to or take from that which He communicates."

"But, seeing that we have the word of God, the Bible, and Christian churches teaching what is in the Bible, what need is there of another church and another revelation?"

"The very fact that there are so many conflicting churches, all professing to establish their opposing creeds upon the Bible, is evidence of itself that something more is needed, to set mankind right on the doctrine of Christ and make the word of God plain to the common understanding. No two churches or religious organizations understand the Scriptures alike. Even preachers of the same denomination disagree as to the meaning of certain passages, and Christendom, so-called, is therefore a very Babel of confusion. 'God is not the author of confusion.'" (I. Cor. xiv: 33.)

"But, do you mean to say that the Book of Mormon will set these matters right and clear up all that is obscure in the Bible?"

"No, we do not make any such claim as that. The Book of Mormon merely discloses what was taught on this land centuries ago by divine commandment and revelation, as the Bible relates what was taught ages ago in Palestine, except that the Book of Mormon is very much plainer and couched in much simpler language. But it is valuable as casting light on the Jewish scriptures and in being the record of God's dealings with a large portion of the human family, who could not be reached by the prophets and apostles who ministered on the Eastern Hemisphere. It gives an account of a visit made by Jesus Christ after His resurrection, to the people on this land, and the establishment among them of His church, organized on the same pattern as the church in Palestine, with the same doctrines, ordinances, gifts and blessings. All this being made much more definite than it is in the Jewish scriptures, the Book of Mormon is therefore a great aid to the understanding of Christian truth. But we do not depend upon any book for the gospel which we preach or the order of the church to which we belong."

"Do you not, then, take your doctrines, authority and church discipline from either the Book of Mormon, or the Bible or both?"

"No, sir. Everything in our church organization, its principles, ordinances, authority and administrations, has been revealed directly from Heaven in the nineteenth century. We refer to the Bible and the Book of Mormon to show that our church and all pertaining to it are exactly similar to what {106} Christ set up and organized when He was on earth in both hemispheres and that He is 'the same yesterday, today and forever.'"

"How is your church organized, and wherein does it differ from other Christian churches?"

"It is actually and really the Church of Jesus Christ, because it is organized under Christ's direct supervision and commandment, He having revealed Himself to Joseph Smith, the Prophet, and having continued to communicate the will of the Father by revelation down to the present time. The church is composed of persons who, having come to the years of accountability, have been led to believe in God the Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit, have repented of their sins and have been baptized or buried in water by immersion for the remission of sins, and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands of persons divinely authorized to administer in the name of Jesus Christ. They are entitled through faith and obedience to these ordinances to the enjoyment of all the gifts, manifestations, revelations, signs, healings and other blessings which belonged to the primitive Christian church, the members of which were called Saints. Those disciples of the Savior were called 'Christians' in derision by their enemies, just as the Latter Day Saints are nicknamed 'Mormons' in these times."

"But, do they really have these gifts, and were they not all done away with after the days of the apostles?"

"They do enjoy all those gifts and manifestations according to their faith and fidelity, the Lord, through His spirit dividing to every one severally as He wills." (See I Cor. xii.)

"If those gifts were done away after the days of the apostles it was because living faith had departed and a dead form had taken its place. In support of the 'done away' idea the words of Paul in I Corinthians xiii: 8, are quoted: 'Charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies they shall fail, whether there be tongues they shall cease, whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away,' but they neglect to add verses 9 and 10, which are part of the Apostle's statement. He says: 'For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be done away.' So then it is not until that which is perfect is come that these gifts are to be done away. To emphasize this the Apostle adds (xiii: 12): 'Now I know in part, but then shall I know even as also I am known.' He follows this up by saying: 'Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that we may prophesy.' And again he says: {107} 'Wherefore brethren covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak with tongues' (xiv: 1-39). That which is perfect is not yet come, unless it be perfect confusion, and instead of advancing toward the perfection of which the Apostle spoke, modern Christianity has lost the gifts which he exhorted them to desire and strive for. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints seeks after the gifts and enjoys them, and in that respect differs from orthodoxy, so-called Christianity."

"Is there any other difference between your church and others?"

"Yes, there is this essential difference--for one thing, the authority to preach and administer the ordinances of the gospel held by the early apostles and others has been restored and is now held by the apostles and elders and other ministers in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and that church has in it apostles, and prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, bishops, elders, deacons, and all the officers which we read about in the New Testament. (See I Corinthians xii: 28; Ephesians iv: 11-12; I Timothy iii: 1-8; Titus i: 5.)

"But did not Jesus give authority to all His ministers when He said, 'Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature?'"

"If you will read the chapter from which you quote, you will see that this authority given by the Savior was only to the eleven apostles--one of the twelve having betrayed Him--whom he had called and ordained for the work of the ministry and whom he afterwards endowed with power from on high. They had authority when so directed by the Holy Ghost to ordain others to assist them in the work of the ministry, but, as commanded in Hebrews v: 5, 'No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God as was Aaron.' It is only by revelation and commandment of God that men are authorized to minister in His name. Modern ministers repudiate the doctrine of immediate revelation, and declare that there has been no divine communication by revelation since John received his vision on the island, Patmos. They, therefore, cut themselves off from divine authority and proclaim themselves man-made ministers, teaching by their own learning and destitute of that divine inspiration which is essential to an authorized minister of Christ. In this you will see a wide difference between the organization and authority of the 'Mormon' church and the churches of discordant Christendom."

"You say that the authority of the apostleship and {108} ministry has been restored. That implies that it had been lost or taken away?"

"Certainly. The early apostles predicted an apostacy and departure from the true faith and the introduction of heresies by false teachers, and their prophecies were literally fulfilled. (See Acts xx: 29-30; Galatians i: 6-9; II. Thessalonians ii: 1-12; I. Timothy iv: 1-3; II. Timothy iii: 1-7; II. Peter ii: 1-3; Revelation xii: 1-6; Revelation xiv: 8.) After the apostles were slain and other men holding authority departed from the earth, darkness came in upon the churches, persecution had its influence in driving many persons into the beggarly elements of the world, paganism began to be mingled with the remnant of true Christianity, the Roman state, which had fought the church, became amalgamated with what was left of it, and priestly power foreign to the spirit of Christ was exalted, clothed with purple and fine linen, the ordinances were changed, the pure spirit of the gospel departed, human authority took the place of the divine, the apostacy became general and finally universal. Papal power held sway everywhere until the Reformation, when schisms and new theories divided Christendom, and sects have multiplied from that time until the present, none of the leaders of these movements claiming to have received revelations from God, but all giving their own interpretations to the dead letter of former divine communications, and thus while there have been hosts of good people and many learned and pious preachers, the authority of the apostleship and priesthood of the primitive Christian church has not been had among men, and so 'confusion worse confounded' has come upon the world, and heathen and professing Christian are alike, without divine authority."

"In what way do you claim this authority has been restored?"

"In the first place, the angel whom John saw in the vision, as recorded in Revelation xiv: 6-7, came to Joseph Smith and revealed 'the everlasting gospel to be preached to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.' The first principles of the Gospel are, faith in God, and in Jesus Christ His Son, repentance of all sin, baptism by immersion in water for the remission of sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Baptism and the laying on of hands, to be effectual, must be administered by divine authority. This having been withdrawn from the earth centuries ago, it could only be restored by divine communication. Therefore, in the next place, John the Baptist, who was beheaded after acting as the {109} forerunner of Christ, was sent from heaven as the forerunner of Christ's second advent, and ordained Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery (May 15, 1829), to the authority and priesthood which He held when on earth. They were thus commissioned to baptize each other. They could also preach repentance and baptize all who received their word, but they could not confirm them by the laying on of hands. Subsequently, however, they were visited by the apostles Peter, James and John, who were pillars of the early Christian church, holding the keys of the kingdom, and they ordained Joseph and Oliver to the Holy apostleship--the higher or Melchisedek priesthood, with power to confer the Holy Ghost upon baptized believers, and to usher in the last dispensation, 'the dispensation of the fullness of time,' spoken of in Ephesians i: 10.

"Under this authority the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was organized in the state of New York, April 6, 1830, six members conforming to the laws of the state in signing papers for its incorporation. The gospel was preached, repentant believers were baptized, the Holy Ghost was poured out upon them, the sick were healed, the heavens were opened, visions and dreams and divine manifestations, with the gift of tongues, interpretations, prophecy, wisdom, knowledge, discerning of spirits and numerous revelations, were the consequence, and the union thus promoted became a marvel to unbelievers. As the work progressed elders were ordained under the same authority who went out without purse and scrip, as did the servants of God of old, meeting with the same kind of success and the same sort of persecution. Thus the church was built up, and under divine direction was set in order on the same pattern as the church which Christ and His apostles organized in person."

"Will you explain the order of that organization as it now exists in your church?"

"Yes, sir. The apostleship is the highest office in the church. It holds the keys of the priesthood after the order of Melchisedek and includes all the lesser offices in the church. Three apostles stand at the head and are called the first presidency, that is to say one man is the president of the whole church, having the power and the right to receive revelations from God for its guidance and to regulate its affairs in all the world. He has two counselors, and this trinity is the highest presiding authority in the church on earth. Next are the twelve apostles, or special witnesses of Jesus Christ, {110} holding authority to open the door of the gospel to all nations, and under the direction of the first presidency, to regulate its affairs in all nations. They have the same authority, power and spirit as the apostles of old and act in a similar capacity in the latter days. Next to them are the seventies, seventy elders ordained and appointed for the purpose are organized into a quorum or council, seven of their number being their presidents. There are a large number of these quorums of seventy in the church, each quorum having seven presidents of its own, but all being under the supervision of the first seven presidents of the seventies. They form an appendage to the apostleship and act under the direction of the twelve apostles, as missionaries in all the world. They are expected to be minute men and to go when called and preach the gospel, without salary or any earthly reward. The high priests are a body of church officers to minister in the organized branches of the church, as presiding officers or standing ministers among the saints, the elders who are not of the seventies are also standing ministers, appendages to the high priesthood and are organized into quorums, each numbering ninety-six and presided over by three of their number, a president and two counselors. All these orders which I have named are included in the higher or Melchisedek priesthood.

"Next in order come the priests after the order of Aaron, having authority to baptize, administer the Lord's supper, preach, teach, expound, exhort and invite all to come unto Christ; also to visit the members of the church and instruct them in church duties. Forty-eight of these priests form a quorum, presided over by three of their number. As appendages to their office, there are the teachers and the deacons. Twenty-four of the teachers form a quorum, presided over by three of the number. They are to watch over the church, see that there is no iniquity in it and assist the priests in their duties, but they cannot administer ordinances. Twelve deacons form a quorum, presided over by three of their number. Their duty is to attend to the smaller temporalities of the branches of the church where they reside. The offices of priest, teacher and deacon are in the lesser or Aaronic priesthood, the chief officer of which is the bishop. A bishop should be a lineal descendant of Aaron, but in the absence of such a descendant a high priest in the Melchisedek order may be set apart and appointed to act in that capacity.

"The church in Zion, that is, the place where saints are gathered, is organized in this way. Each settlement of the saints form a bishop's ward, over which a bishop and two {111} counselors, who are also high priests set apart for that position, are appointed to take charge. They take care of the temporal affairs of the church in their ward, look after the poor, give advice to all that seek for it, and as high priest preside over public meetings and have the oversight of church affairs in their locality generally. They also form a spiritual court to hear charges against accused members and decide upon them after hearing evidence on both sides. In cases of dispute between church members which cannot be settled by the parties or with the aid of the visiting teachers, the bishopric try the case and render a decision which must be according to justice and equity. If either of the parties is dissatisfied an appeal can be taken to the high council of the stake of which the ward forms a part. Usually all the wards in a county are organized into what is called a stake of Zion. This is presided over by a high priest with two counselors appointed and set apart for the purpose. The high council which is also organized in each stake of Zion is composed of twelve high priests set apart to that office and with the stake presidency, forming a court of appeal, to which cases from the bishops' courts may be taken and where justice may be secured. They are also original tribunals for decisions in doctrines and discipline. The decisions of the high council are final, unless on revision by the first presidency error is discovered when the case may be remanded for a new trial. The benefits of these church tribunals are had without cost to any of the parties, all these church officers serving without remuneration.

"All the stakes of Zion are under the direction of the presidency of the church and are visited by them or by the apostles, and quarterly conferences are held in each of them for general instruction and for making such changes as many be necessary to their proper management. The officers named are also presented before the people in conference assembled for their votes, every member, male and female, having a voice in church affairs, and they vote upon the acceptance or rejection of those officers. At the general conferences, held semiannually, the first presidency, apostles and all leading officials of the church are also presented for the approval or disapproval of the body of the church.

"Outside of Zion each mission has a president who takes charge of all its affairs, and each branch of the mission has a branch president, amenable to a conference president, and he to the president of the mission, who also directs the labors of the traveling elders, missionaries sent to labor in the field. Thus the whole church is so organized that each officer has his {112} defined place and sphere of authority and the whole system inspired by one spirit moves like a well regulated living body, the president or head of the whole church, who is a prophet, a seer and a revelator, directing it under divine authority and inspiration."

"What is the attitude of your church in regard to other Christian denominations?"

"It recognizes truth wherever it is found. It regards all human effort for the development and promulgation of truth as good and blessed of Deity. It recognizes the benefits which have come to mankind through the labors of good men and women everywhere, no matter what sect they belong to or what language they speak. But it has no affiliation with error. Truth and error will not combine. There can be but one Church of Jesus Christ, no matter how many branches it may have nor how many members. It is unreasonable and also unscriptural to say that the one living and true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent, would establish a number of discordant contending religions. The good intentions, sincerity of motives and pious acts of men and women are no proof of themselves that they are divinely authorized. They are to be admired and respected for what they are, but this should not deceive any one as to what they are not. Heathendom as well as Christendom furnishes striking illustrations of purity of conduct and sincerity, but in neither instance does this prove correctness of principle or divinity in organization. Christ when on earth established but one church. All others were outside of its pale. It is the same today. There is only one true Church of Christ, and it is that which He Himself has established and which He recognizes and directs. All others are the institutions of men, to be valued for what they are worth, but not to be viewed as divinely established. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has no quarrel with any of them; it does not attempt to deprive them of any light they may have, but only endeavors to correct their errors and bring them into greater light, that they may receive greater blessings, with full and complete salvation in the kingdom of God."

"Is it necessary for preachers and members of other churches to be baptized anew in order to enter your church and be saved?"

"The voice of God is to all people, without exception, repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and shall know that you have received {113} the truth and that God and Jesus Christ His Son have manifested themselves in this age of the world, and can be approached as of old, and that the blessings and gifts enjoyed in former days may be had in their fulness in these days. This is the only way of salvation and in this church is the only divine authority to administer the ordinances of salvation. They who receive this gospel and endure unto the end will be saved; they who wilfully reject it will be condemned."

"Is it necessary that baptism should be administered by total immersion? Will not sprinkling or pouring water upon the candidate be sufficient?"

"Baptism means immersion. It is a burial in water and afterwards the coming forth into a new life. It is symbolical of death and the resurrection. Paul said: 'Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection' (Roman vi: 4-5). The believer becomes dead to sin by repentance; he is buried from the old life by baptism. Coming from the womb of water into the air, he is born of water. Through remission of sins given in baptism, but proceeding from the atonement, he is born of the water and is thus prepared as a new creature in Christ Jesus to receive the Holy Ghost and thus be born of the spirit. Jesus said when on earth, 'Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' (John iii: 5.) He set the example. He was baptized by John, His forerunner, in the river Jordan. When 'He came up straightway out of the water the heavens were opened and the spirit of God descended like a dove and lighted upon Him.' Thus He was born of the water and of the spirit and left us an example that we should follow in His steps. All other forms of baptism are inventions of men, and are not recognized of God; nor is this form, accepted of heaven unless administered by one who has the divine right to do so, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Lord accepts only such ordinances as are performed by His authority and according to His commandment."

"Would you baptize infants by immersion?"

"We would not baptize infants at all. That would be a mockery in the sight of God. Faith and repentance must precede baptism. Infants cannot believe and they have nothing to repent of. Jesus did not baptize little children, but laid His hands on them and blessed them, saying, 'Of such is the {114} kingdom of heaven' (Matthew xix: 13-15). We give names to infants and bless them after this pattern, but do not baptize children until they come to years of accountability, are able to understand right from wrong, to believe in Christ and repent of their sins. We baptize no children less than eight years of age."

"If the world has been without divine authority, and the ordinances you speak of are necessary for salvation, do you mean to say that all the millions of good people who have died since the days of the early apostles and elders are lost?"

"No, we do not believe any such monstrous thing. I might ask you what has become of all the millions of good people in heathen lands, and other places where the name of Jesus Christ was never preached. We are told in Scripture that there is 'no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved' (Acts iv: 12). But I will answer you directly. God has revealed that the gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached to every creature. Those who do not hear it in this life, will hear it in the life to come. The idea that God's mercies extend only to the narrow sphere of this mortal life, is unworthy of Him whose 'tender mercies are over all His works,' and whose justice and mercy endure forever. When Jesus was put to death in the flesh, he was quickened by the spirit, and as the Scriptures tell us, 'He went and preached to the spirits in prison, which sometimes were disobedient when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing' (I Peter iii: 18-20). This shows that spirits after they leave the body can be preached to and instructed. The purpose of this is shown by Peter in the fourth chapter, sixth verse. He says: 'For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.' Thus all mankind will have the opportunity of hearing the one true and everlasting gospel, either in the body or out of the body. It is the intelligent immortal entity in the body which receives or rejects light and truth and is the responsible being. It is no less a thinking, sentient, responsible person when out of the body than when clothed with mortality. The spirit can believe or disbelieve, repent or remain unregenerate, bow to the divine command or persist in rebellion. But the earthly ordinances belong to this material world, and therefore cannot be performed in spirit spheres. Yet Jesus declared, 'except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' Baptism, the laying on of hands and similar ceremonies must therefore be {115} attended to by some one on earth for and in behalf of the dead. This is what the Apostle Paul referred to when teaching the Corinthians the doctrine of the resurrection. He asked: 'Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead' (I. Cor. xv: 29). It is clear from this that the Corinthian saints understood baptism for the dead better than the resurrection of the dead. We do not, however, depend on that Scripture or any other ancient writing for this doctrine. It has been revealed from heaven in these latter days, and everything pertaining to that sacred ordinance has been made known; and the temples which have been erected by the saints in Zion, at immense cost, have been reared with a special view to the solemnization of ordinances in behalf of the dead."

"But what will become of people who reject what you call the one only plan of salvation? Will they be doomed to eternal woe? Do you believe in everlasting punishment?"