Chapter X: Front Matter (10)

FRITZSCHE: May I say the following to this: At the very beginning of an action of war, a representative from the Foreign Office used to appear with a completed document book, a _White Book_. I know nothing about the origin of these _White Books_. At any rate, they were not prepared in the Ministry of Propaganda. In a few cases I later received some knowledge of their compilation in the Foreign Office.

GEN. RUDENKO: Would it be correct to make the following deduction: The Ministry of Foreign Affairs participated directly and actively in the preparation of propaganda tasks and directives; is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: No doubt that is true because the Foreign Minister reserved for himself the decisive word with reference to propaganda which was connected with foreign policy or any propaganda which went abroad.

GEN. RUDENKO: Did you have in mind Defendant Ribbentrop when you just replied and when you spoke about the role of the Foreign Minister?

FRITZSCHE: Of course.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. You acknowledge and maintain that Defendant Ribbentrop personally gave out the propaganda orders for explaining the attack on the Soviet Union as a preventive war?

FRITZSCHE: That question cannot be answered with “yes” or “no” but with a very brief description of the facts. The then Foreign Minister Von Ribbentrop received, in the early morning hours of the day when the Russian campaign started, the foreign press correspondents and the German press. He put a _White Book_ before them and he went on to explain in a speech what the situation was and concluded with the following emphatic statement:

“For all these reasons Germany was forced to begin this attack
against the Soviet Union in order to forestall a Soviet attack.
I ask you, gentlemen of the press, to please present the facts
in this manner.”

GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to determine by this that the propaganda tasks were given by Defendant Ribbentrop himself. Do you admit it?

FRITZSCHE: I beg to apologize, but I have admitted exactly what I have said. Your last question is a conclusion based on what I have said, and to that I do not want to agree.

GEN. RUDENKO: However, replying to my previous question you spoke about the decisive role of Defendant Ribbentrop in questions concerning the carrying out of the foreign policy propaganda; is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: Perfectly correct.

GEN. RUDENKO: Well. It is enough; let us skip that question. Tell me now what were the relations between the Ministry of Propaganda and the so-called Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories? Please explain to me in this connection how these two Ministries collaborated and what the relations were between them?

FRITZSCHE: There was a permanent liaison officer who was a member both of the Eastern Ministry and the Ministry of Propaganda; and beyond that, there was an institution which had been founded by both Ministries jointly and which was jointly administrated by them. It was the institution called “Vineta,” which dealt with the entire propaganda in the East.

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, I understand. By what order—or who prepared the propaganda slogans, as you called them in Germany, which were intended for the occupied territories? Who planned and prepared them?

FRITZSCHE: I cannot tell you under oath, because I am not sure about it, but it is my assumption that they were developed based on the existing principles of general propaganda by Dr. Tauber who was mentioned, and his associates, in this Vineta institute.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. But apparently you are aware of the fact and will confirm that the leading influence of the Ministry of Propaganda has been maintained in all these measures.

FRITZSCHE: Quite definitely. Indubitably the Ministry of Propaganda had the superior initiative here and the greater influence.

GEN. RUDENKO: That is clear. Now tell me, what kind of influence did the Defendant Bormann have on German propaganda? What role did he play in this respect?

FRITZSCHE: That role was unusually great. I know that it is somewhat frowned upon when statements are made here about a man who presumably is dead. In the interests of the historic truth, however, I shall nevertheless have to tell you the following ...

GEN. RUDENKO: We do not know yet whether Bormann is dead. We know only that he is not present on the defendants’ bench; but he is, however, one of the defendants. Go on, please.

FRITZSCHE: The influence of the Defendant Bormann was unusually strong not only in all the other fields but also in the propaganda sector. It became apparent in the following:

First, in the general type of Party agitation which I mentioned yesterday, that of the most radical trend. A teleprint message from Bormann to Dr. Goebbels with, shall we say, the following contents: I heard complaints from Party circles regarding this, that, or the other, would always be the cause of a rapid acceleration of Dr. Goebbels’ entire machinery.

Second—and this is something which I cannot express under oath in other words—Dr. Goebbels was quite clearly afraid of Martin Bormann. And he always tried scrupulously to justify in Bormann’s eyes any actions of his which might have been misinterpreted by radical elements in the Party.

GEN. RUDENKO: Perhaps you will tell us who else of the defendants who were not named here during my cross-examination actively participated in the propaganda activities, and in what way. Maybe you would rather not tell us anything about the defendants who are present here.

FRITZSCHE: I certainly would rather not, but I shall answer.

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, please.

FRITZSCHE: By the way, a very favorable influence on propaganda was exercised by one of the offices of the Defendant Kaltenbrunner. Whether he was responsible for it in person I do not know, but here are the facts: During the struggle for realistic news service which I mentioned yesterday, I repeatedly met with resistance from the Party and the Foreign Office; but I found the support of a department of the RSHA, the name of which I have forgotten, most useful. This department used to issue reports about the general frame of mind or temper of the German people, and these reports were distributed to various supreme authorities in the Reich. In these reports showing the mood of the people there was frequent praise for realistic news, the very thing which had been combated by the other two parties which I have mentioned.

GEN. RUDENKO: You just mentioned the office of Defendant Kaltenbrunner. Who else of the defendants could you name?

FRITZSCHE: None of the others played a part in German propaganda.

GEN. RUDENKO: Defendant Hess is not present here, but did he have any influence or not?

FRITZSCHE: Most unfortunately not.

GEN. RUDENKO: Why do you say “unfortunately”?

FRITZSCHE: During the period when he was still in office, he fulfilled a very beneficial task. He was, shall we say, the “complaint department” for all shortcomings in the Party and the State. I wish he could have continued...

GEN. RUDENKO: Well, there is no use to speak about it in detail. Now, let us go into the explanation of your personal participation and your personal role in the field of German propaganda. I should like you to state exactly what relations you had with Dr. Goebbels. Yesterday you spoke about it in detail, but here I should like you to state it briefly.

FRITZSCHE: The briefest formula is this: Personally, little relationship; officially, in the course of time, more and more relationship.

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes. Do you know the name of General Field Marshal Ferdinand Schörner?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, I know the name.

GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to read into the record an extract from his testimony. Mr. President, I am submitting this document (USSR-472) as Exhibit USSR-472.

[_Turning to the defendant._] We are going to hand you this document in a minute. In order to facilitate the reading of it, the paragraphs which I am going to read here are underlined in red pencil. I am going to read the first excerpt; will you please follow the text—I quote:

“Everybody, including myself, was aware that Fritzsche was not
only a close associate of Goebbels, but was also a favorite of
his. He gained Goebbels’ sympathy by frequently copying him in
his political activities and quoting Goebbels in his speeches.
Goebbels, in his printed and verbal speeches, referred to the
conclusions and prognoses made by Fritzsche as having the force
of official declarations.”

Please tell me, Defendant Fritzsche, is that in accordance with reality?

FRITZSCHE: May I ask you which quotation you have been reading, 1, 2, or 3?

GEN. RUDENKO: I have already told you, it is quotation Number 1.

FRITZSCHE: According to my text, the first one says:

“Everybody, including myself, was aware that Fritzsche was not
only a close associate of Goebbels, but was also, a favorite of
his.”

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, that is quite correct. That is exactly what I quoted. I am asking you, is that in accordance with reality?

FRITZSCHE: I should not have expressed it like that, and I think it is a question of taste. This statement...

GEN. RUDENKO: I understand.

FRITZSCHE: Just a moment. I have something to add.

The expression “close associate of Goebbels” is wrong, objectively seen, and “favorite”—well, I do not think so.

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, very well. Let us go further.

You enjoyed the complete confidence of Goebbels and you carried out your duties in the Ministry of Propaganda entrusted with fullest powers. Do you admit that?

FRITZSCHE: Absolutely.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Thus, enjoying the confidence and disposing of full powers, in your utterances you fully mirrored the demands of the Hitler Government which were made tasks of German propaganda; is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, to the exact extent which I described yesterday.

GEN. RUDENKO: Now, I should like to read into the record some extracts from your testimony of 12 September 1945. I am submitting this document (USSR-474) as Exhibit USSR-474. I am going to read into the record Excerpt Number 1.

FRITZSCHE: May I have the document?

GEN. RUDENKO: Certainly, it will be handed to you immediately. Will you please follow my quotation of Excerpt Number 1. It is underlined in red pencil. I am reading:

“During a long time I was one of the leaders of German
propaganda.”

I skip a few lines and further read:

“I must say that Goebbels valued me as a convinced National
Socialist and a capable journalist so that I was considered his
confidential aid in the German propaganda machine.”

Is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: Mr. Prosecutor, that is not correct. I know that I have signed this report but at the very moment when I signed it in Moscow I stated:

“You can do what you like with that record. If you publish it,
then nobody in Germany will believe it and no intelligent person
in other countries either because this is not my language.”

I state that not a single one of the questions contained in this report was put to me in that same form and I go on to declare that not a single one of the answers in that record was given by me in that form and I signed it for reasons which I will explain to you in detail if you want me to.

GEN. RUDENKO: You therefore do not confirm these statements?

FRITZSCHE: No, only the signature is true.

GEN. RUDENKO: All right, let us say only the signature is true.

Well, we want to bear in mind that in this quotation which I just read and which you deny, it is said that Goebbels valued you as a National Socialist and a capable journalist and that therefore you were a trustworthy person in the German propaganda machine. This is the essence of the quotation; is that right? Do you deny this? Just a minute please. I am going to remind you...

FRITZSCHE: Yes, General, I admit that, I admit these facts.

GEN. RUDENKO: Well, then the quotation was correct, was it not?

FRITZSCHE: Yes.

GEN. RUDENKO: Well then, what else are we speaking about? That means you do corroborate this statement?

FRITZSCHE: I am talking about the record which has been put before me in its entirety.

GEN. RUDENKO: At present I am questioning you with particular reference to this quotation which I just read into the record. You are not going to deny it? You admit it?

FRITZSCHE: I will not confirm the quotation but I will confirm once more the contents which you have just summarized again.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. The sense is not different from the actual quotation, but results from it. I should like to remind you of an excerpt...

THE PRESIDENT: One moment. What is it you are saying, Defendant? Are you saying that you did not sign this document or that you did?

FRITZSCHE: Mr. President, I signed the document, although its contents did not correspond with my own statements.

THE PRESIDENT: Why did you do that?

FRITZSCHE: I gave that signature after very severe solitary confinement which had lasted for several months; and I wrote that signature because one of my fellow prisoners, with whom I came into contact once, had told me that once every month a court was pronouncing sentences based merely on such records and without interrogation; and I hoped that in this manner I would at least achieve being sentenced and thus terminate my confinement.

So as not to be misunderstood I should like to emphasize that no force was used and that I was treated very humanely, even if my detention was very severe.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Of course, you never thought, Defendant Fritzsche, that after all you had done you would be sent to a sanatorium? It is obvious that you had to land in a prison and a prison is always a prison. This was just an aside, however.

I should like to ask you about the following: You stated that in 1945 you signed this because of a very strict regime to which you were subjected; very well—when you arrived in Nuremberg you were interrogated on 3 November 1945 here in Nuremberg by General Alexandrov; is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: Yes.

GEN. RUDENKO: So that is correct? Very well. I should like to remind you of some of your answers. You were put the following question—on 12 November 1945 questions were put to you and you replied. Do you remember these statements?

You answered, “I have very often been interrogated and I do not know what statements and testimony are in question now.”

Thereupon, General Alexandrov submitted to you your testimony of 12 September and you answered him, “I am fully aware of this document.”

You were asked, “I should like you to peruse this document. Do you remember these statements?”

You said, “Of course, there is no doubt about it.”

And further: “Do you corroborate this document, which you perused and which was signed by you?”

And you replied, “Of course.”

Do you remember these statements which you made in Nuremberg?

FRITZSCHE: In the statement which you have quoted, all those passages are missing where I stated again and again that the record was put before me complete and finished for the purpose of obtaining my signature. I wished to make 20 or 30 alterations. Some of them were granted but passages were missing wherein I said in Nuremberg that some of the answers in that protocol contained a certain amount of truth but that none of them actually do represent my own answers.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should now like to remind you of an extract from your statement of 7 January 1946.

Your Honors, this is Document 3469-PS. It is not in my book of documents as it was submitted by the Counsel for the Defense. I am going to quote from that document; it is a very short passage.

[_Turning to the defendant._] This is Paragraph 39 of your statement:

“Once Goebbels tried to coerce me into submitting my texts for
perusal. I refused this request and explained that usually I
dictated a short résumé of my speech immediately before my
broadcast and consequently, so to say, improvised my speeches.
He said it was all right but on condition that if he would wish
it, I should at least speak on specific, given themes.”

Is that right?

FRITZSCHE: Yes.

GEN. RUDENKO: Does that not indicate the confidence Goebbels had in you? Is that not right?

FRITZSCHE: No doubt he had a great deal of confidence in me, and I did not deny it.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Let us proceed.

In this very same document, which I have just mentioned to you, that is to say, in your statement of 7 January 1946, in Paragraph 35 there is the following sentence—I think it was written by your own hand. It was in reply to some of the questions put by your counsel. You say, “More and more I became the only official authority in the Ministry in the field of radio communication.”

Is that right?

FRITZSCHE: Unfortunately I did not hear the end of your question but you have quoted the passage correctly and I have written it.

GEN. RUDENKO: So, it does correspond to facts?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, absolutely.

GEN. RUDENKO: Well, you therefore will admit that in the German propaganda machinery you occupied the most prominent position after Goebbels?

FRITZSCHE: No, my previous answer does not contain such a statement.

GEN. RUDENKO: I am asking you that now.

FRITZSCHE: I will admit that I had a most influential position in German radio, of which I was the head.

If you now put a new question, asking who held the second position in the entire set-up of propaganda after Dr. Goebbels, I will reply: Dr. Dietrich, the State Secretary, or Dr. Naumann, the ...

GEN. RUDENKO: Excuse me just a minute, please. I did not say the second position; I only said the most influential position. Are you going to deny this?

FRITZSCHE: I have no objection to your use of the word “influential,” but it does not change my answer.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well, “influential position,” if you like. That is still stronger. Let us proceed, however.

In the same statement of 7 January you wrote—it is contained in Paragraph 15:

“During the entire period from 1933 to 1945 the task of the
‘German Press Department’ was the supervision of the local press
and supplying it with directives... More than 2,300 German
newspapers were thus supervised.”

And then:

“In the execution of this task given to me by Dr. Goebbels, in
accordance with instructions of the Ministry of Propaganda, my
activity encompassed the entire news and information system of
the German press and radio.”

Is that correct?

FRITZSCHE: I do not know whether you have quoted the last sentence correctly, but I have certainly fully recognized the first sentences. It is my affidavit Document 3469-PS. That corresponds word for word with the truth.

SEN. RUDENKO: Quite correct. Please tell me this: You organized in the German Press Department, the head of which you were, the Schnelldienst, the so-called speed service, which supplied the German press with provocative material. Do you admit that?

FRITZSCHE: If you will eliminate the word “provocative” and replace it with the word “propaganda” material, then I will admit it.

GEN. RUDENKO: All right. The Tribunal will consider this. We are not going to argue about it.

Now, the last question from this group of questions: Tell me, were your broadcasts on the radio, which were presented with “Hans Fritzsche Speaks,” considered official Government broadcasts?

FRITZSCHE: I explained this subject to you yesterday. Actually, they were a private work of my own; but the private work, publicly audible, of a Ministerialdirektor of the Ministry of Propaganda and the head of the German radio system will, of course, be regarded as semi-official, though not fully official; and this fact I had to consider, and I did consider it.

GEN. RUDENKO: All right. Now, I should like again to revert to the testimony of Ferdinand Schörner, which I have already submitted to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR-472. I should like to quote Paragraph Number 2. Do you find it, Defendant Fritzsche?

FRITZSCHE: Yes.

GEN. RUDENKO: I am going to read it into the record.

THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, the Tribunal would like to see the whole of this document, or at any rate would like to see the questions to which these are answers.

GEN. RUDENKO: Mr. President, this document has been submitted to you in full.

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see. You mean that what we have in English here are only the parts that have been translated into English?

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, that is quite correct. I am going to read into the record Extract Number 2:

“I am fully aware that Fritzsche was a prominent collaborator of
the Ministry of Propaganda and that he was extremely popular in
National Socialist circles and among the German people. He
gained great popularity, especially by his weekly war political
radio commentaries on the international situation. I often heard
Fritzsche’s broadcasts in peacetime as well as during the war;
and I perceived his broadcasts, which were filled with fanatical
devotion to the Führer, as directives from the Party and the
Government.”

Do you agree with this evaluation?

FRITZSCHE: I cannot raise any objection to this quotation, but beyond that...

THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, is the document sworn?

GEN. RUDENKO: This document was put into official form in accordance with the processes which are in use in the Soviet Union.

THE PRESIDENT: Where was it taken?

GEN. RUDENKO: In Moscow.

THE PRESIDENT: The man who made the statement—was he free or was he in prison?

GEN. RUDENKO: He was at the time a prisoner of war.

THE PRESIDENT: Did the man who is alleged to have made the statement sign it?

GEN. RUDENKO: Of course, it was signed by him.

THE PRESIDENT: Go on.

GEN. RUDENKO: Thank you. And so you...

FRITZSCHE: May I add that it is known to me that on distant battle fronts or, for example, with German colonies abroad, my radio speeches were considered, shall we say, as a political compass.

GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, I understand. I should like to put to you another document which I will ask you to peruse.

Your Honors, I am submitting as Exhibit USSR-471 the testimony of Hans Voss.

Defendant Fritzsche, do you know this name, Vice Admiral Hans Voss?

FRITZSCHE: I know the name, but not the man personally.

DR. FRITZ: I apologize, Mr. President. It may be that the statement of General Field Marshal Schörner does not deserve too much attention, but at any rate I am unable to ascertain from the document the place where it was taken.

THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko says that it was taken at Moscow.

DR. FRITZ: But the record, the protocol itself, does not show that; and then I have noticed also that the photostatic copy which I have here does not show the signature of the Field Marshal. It just says “signed.” Later on in the right margin a handwritten signature has been affixed, but I do not know whether this document is admissible from a legal point of view.

THE PRESIDENT: You can see the original and compare it.

GEN. RUDENKO: I am speaking about the Document USSR-471, which is a written statement by Hans Voss. Please look at the Excerpt Number 1, which is underlined; I quote:

“Fully devoted to Hitler and the National Socialist Party,
Fritzsche rendered priceless services in helping to spread
National Socialism throughout Germany.”

Is that in accordance with reality?

FRITZSCHE: Well, at least I will not object.

GEN. RUDENKO: In other words, you are in accord with it?

FRITZSCHE: As I told you, I do not object, but I do not want to say by that that I concur.

GEN. RUDENKO: On the other hand, you do not deny this?

FRITZSCHE: No, I say for the third time that I do not raise any objection.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should now like to question you regarding your attitude toward the racial theory. You gave yesterday a detailed explanation in this connection to your counsel, so that I am going to put to you only two or three questions, and I should like you to reply briefly.

Did you agree with this racial theory?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, and precisely to the extent which I described to you yesterday.

GEN. RUDENKO: All right. In a radio broadcast on 6 April 1940 you spoke about Poland.

Your Honors, this is Document USSR-496. I am not going to read this document as I do not want to propagate the views contained in it, but I should like the defendant to peruse this document.

Please will you look at Excerpt Number 1 of this document. It is underlined in red pencil. This refers to your evaluation of the Polish nation. I simply should like to ask you about this speech of yours.

FRITZSCHE: It is impossible for me to recognize a radio speech of mine when I see an extract of only 20 lines, considering that I have spoken about a thousand times, as I said yesterday. In that case, you will have to let me have the full speech so that I can recognize my line of thought at the time.

GEN. RUDENKO: Did you not examine the document? This is a full text of your utterance which took place on 6 February 1940 on radio station, Deutschland Sender.

FRITZSCHE: General, there are 20 lines here. They begin with the words, “Considerable effort was necessary to...”

GEN. RUDENKO: That is enough, all right. There is no need in further quoting. That is the document to which I am referring. I am asking you, is that your speech?

FRITZSCHE: It is quite possible, but if you give me only 20 lines of that speech, I can only confirm that: At the time when I had seen the official German documents dealing with the atrocities committed against Germans in Poland I talked about that with great disgust on the radio, talked about what I saw in those documents.

THE PRESIDENT: Shall we adjourn now?

GEN. RUDENKO: All right, Mr. President.

DR. THOMA: I ask you to grant leave for Defendant Rosenberg to be absent from the Court this afternoon because I have an important conference to hold with him.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

[_The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours._]

_Afternoon Session_

GEN. RUDENKO: Defendant Fritzsche, extracts from your speech dated 5 July 1941 will be handed to you. They concern the opposition which the German Fascist troops encountered while entering Soviet territory. My Lord, this Document Number 3064-PS has already been submitted by the Defense.

Will you look at Paragraph 7, the last paragraph? I do not intend to read it.

FRITZSCHE: Yes, I have noted it.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Do you admit having used those very expressions?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, I admit that and I should like to emphasize, without quoting it, in what connection this statement was made.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I merely want to ask you the following: When, in your speeches you insult the Polish and Russian peoples by calling them “subhumans” do you not consider that these are expressions of misanthropic theories?

FRITZSCHE: Mr. Prosecutor, I should like to state that I never called the Russian people or the Polish people subhumans.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I do not intend to argue with you; the documents speak for themselves.

I would like to turn again to the statement of Hans Voss. This is Document USSR-471. It has already been submitted. Will you pay attention to Excerpt Number 2? It is underlined. It is just a short excerpt, and I will read it:

“...and he”—Fritzsche—“understood how to influence the German
mind when he tried to convince them that they, the Germans, were
the superior race and therefore had to rule over other peoples
as their slaves.”

Does that agree with the facts?

FRITZSCHE: No, it does not agree with the facts; rather, it contradicts the facts in all points.

GEN. RUDENKO: Let us say it contradicts your assertions.

Very well, I will put another question to you. Do you know the name Lieutenant General Rainer Stahel, who was the former commander of the city of Warsaw?

FRITZSCHE: I am not familiar with that name.

GEN. RUDENKO: You are not familiar with that name? Very well. You will be handed a document.

Mr. President, this is Document USSR-473, and it is the testimony of Rainer Stahel, dated 15 September 1941. The passage is underlined in your copy.

I will read the first excerpt:

“Goebbels and Fritzsche took every measure in order to
popularize the racial theory among the Germans and to convince
them that the Germans were a master race and that other peoples,
as inferior races, must be subordinated to the German ‘master
race.’

“In order to convince the Germans of this and to compel them to
believe in this theory, the Ministry of Propaganda, run by
Goebbels and Fritzsche, made a large number of films before the
war and during the war and published books, pamphlets,
periodicals, and other literature in which the authors attempted
to prove the ‘superiority’ of the Germans over other nations.

“It can be said that as a result of the energetic activity of
Goebbels and Fritzsche the racial theory gained a firm hold on
the minds of large numbers of the German people. This
contributed to the fact that during the war the German soldiers
and officers, having assimilated the teaching of the leaders of
German propaganda, committed bestial crimes against peaceful
populations.”

Tell me, did Rainer Stahel correctly describe the part played by you in the propagation of racial theory?

FRITZSCHE: No, I should like to add that the level of this statement is even lower than that of the other statements submitted to me. I should be happy if just one of those people whose testimony has been submitted to me in this form, could appear here in person in order to testify as to the documentary basis of his statement.

GEN. RUDENKO: I believe that during the 6 months that the Trial has lasted, you have heard enough testimony. Well, let us go on.

FRITZSCHE: No, I have to make this observation: I have not been confronted with any testimony of witnesses dealing with the subject matter discussed here.

GEN. RUDENKO: You remember, I hope, the testimony of the witness Hoess regarding the extermination of millions of persons.

[_There was no response._]

GEN. RUDENKO: I say that you, I hope, remember the testimony of Hoess, the commander of the concentration camp in Auschwitz, concerning the extermination of millions of people.

FRITZSCHE: I did not forget this testimony, and not for a minute did it escape my memory.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I merely wanted to remind you. I do not intend questioning you on this matter. I am passing on to questions connected with the propaganda regarding the preparation for aggressive war by Hitler Germany. In order to shorten the cross-examination, I shall quote a few of your own statements, dated 12 September 1945, which have already been submitted to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR-474. Please look at the second excerpt. It is underlined.

FRITZSCHE: I object to the reading of this quotation in the same way as I objected to the submission of the entire minutes of the interrogation, and I refer you to what I testified a few hours ago as to the origin of this record.

GEN. RUDENKO: You already gave an explanation to the Tribunal, and the Tribunal will consider your explanation. This document is submitted, and I intend to cite this part of the testimony. Please follow me—Excerpt Number 2:

“In order to justify this aggressive action, Goebbels summoned
me to him and gave me instructions to conduct a hostile campaign
against Austria. Among other things he instructed me to dig out
old documents in the archives which in any way incriminated the
Austrian Government and to publish them in the press. Goebbels
stressed that the documents to be published must first of all
show that the Austrian people wished to unite themselves with
the German nation and that the Austrians adhering to these ideas
were being persecuted by the Austrian Government. Furthermore,
Goebbels said that the German press had to show that the Germans
living in Austria were being systematically persecuted by the
Austrian Government which even went to the length of carrying
out mass reprisals against them.”

And further on:

“When Germany occupied Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Poland, Belgium,
Norway, and the Balkan countries, acting on the instructions of
Goebbels, I organized a similar calumnious propaganda.”

THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, surely it would be better to ask him with reference to one of these paragraphs: Did he say that?—rather than to put to him the whole document at once.

GEN. RUDENKO: Mr. President, I have only one paragraph left, and I intended to read it and then to put the question to him.

THE PRESIDENT: I am not objecting to that. I am only suggesting that it would be better if you put to him each paragraph in turn, and not put three or four paragraphs all in one question.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well, Mr. President; I will deal with it in this way.

I am asking you, Defendant Fritzsche, do you admit the paragraph read by me concerning the Anschluss?

FRITZSCHE: No; and I maintain that that is not what I testified. That extract contains rather the thoughts which the interrogating Russian officer entertained in respect to my testimony. After it had been drawn up, the record was submitted to me for my signature.

THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute! What do you deny in it? Take the first paragraph.

FRITZSCHE: Mr. President, I am protesting against everything, particularly against the expressions applied here which I have never used. During my interrogations in Moscow I stated exactly the same things as I stated here in this Trial yesterday, the day before yesterday and today or as I have set down in my affidavit.

THE PRESIDENT: Take the first paragraph. The first paragraph has just been read to you: “In order to justify this aggressive action...” Were you asked any question about that, and did you make any answer?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, indeed. In many interrogations which were held late at night, I was asked such questions, and to the subjects condensed in this one question I answered as follows:

I do not recall the date, but when the Austrian action was about to take place I was summoned to Dr. Goebbels. Dr. Goebbels told me that the Austrian Government of Schuschnigg had plans of such and such a nature—they have been described in sufficient detail here—that a government crisis had developed, that Seyss-Inquart had taken over the Government, that a call for help had come from Austria, and that now the march into Austria would take place.

THE PRESIDENT: Are you now telling us what you told the Russian interrogator, or are you telling us what actually happened in Germany at the time of the Anschluss?

FRITZSCHE: I am telling what I told the interrogating Russian officer, and that is exactly what took place in the Propaganda Ministry on the day in question.

THE PRESIDENT: You are saying, then, that this first paragraph is entirely made up, are you?

FRITZSCHE: No; I should not like to use the expression “made up,” but I should like to say—and I beg permission to do so—which parts in this paragraph are correct. First of all, there is the point that there was a hostile campaign against the Schuschnigg Government; such a campaign actually was instigated in the German press; whether at the moment of his resignation or just before his resignation I do not remember now.

Furthermore, it is correct, as set down in this paragraph, that it was proposed to show, by quoting individual cases as far as possible, that under the Schuschnigg Government those who were sympathetic toward Germany were persecuted. These are the points that are correct.

GEN. RUDENKO: Strictly speaking, this means that you have now corroborated what I have just read.

FRITZSCHE: No, no, sir. There is an essential difference.

GEN. RUDENKO: From your point of view. But I believe that you will not deny the fact that you conducted propaganda directed against the Austrian Government. This is the main point of this question.

FRITZSCHE: I must deny that as well. This propaganda was not conducted by me, but by my predecessor, as chief of the German Press Department.

GEN. RUDENKO: Do I understand correctly that you deny having participated personally in this propaganda, but do not deny the fact that there was such propaganda?

FRITZSCHE: You understand me correctly if by the term “propaganda” in this case you mean the enumeration of those measures used by the Schuschnigg Government against German interests as a whole.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should like to read the following paragraph of the same testimony which says:

“When Germany occupied Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Denmark, Poland,
Norway, and the Balkan countries, acting on the instructions of
Goebbels, I organized a similar calumnious propaganda. In every
such case I dug out every old document from the archives which
incriminated the Governments of these countries as far as
Germany was concerned, added my commentary to these documents
and attempted in this way to justify this or that aggressive
action on the part of Germany.”

Do you also deny this?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, in that form I deny that as well.

GEN. RUDENKO: But you will not deny that propaganda for the purpose of aggression was conducted against all the countries enumerated in this testimony?

FRITZSCHE: I contest your last remark. I admit the fact of the propaganda, and I have described in detail the individual actions and my participation in them in my affidavit, Document 3469-PS.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well; I do not intend questioning you further, as this has been quite adequately explained in your statements dated 7 January 1946, Document 3469-PS, and which, in fact, do not contradict what has been stated. Is that right?

FRITZSCHE: I see an essential difference. But this Document 3469-PS is absolutely correct.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well, I should like as a supplement to this, to read the testimony of Ferdinand Schörner, which is Document USSR-72 and which has already been submitted to the Tribunal; I mean Extract Number 3. He says in his statement, I read:

“Fritzsche’s political activity in his function as official
radio commentator, in the same way as the activity of the war
correspondent, General Dittmar, was subordinated to the main aim
of National Socialism, the unleashing of the world war against
democratic countries and the contributing by all possible means
to the victory of German arms. Fritzsche’s principal method,
applied during the several years of his activity, consisted in,
as I later realized, the deliberate deception of the German
people. I mention that because during the last years we soldiers
felt this deception especially keenly since in spite of
Fritzsche’s false lamentations we knew the actual conditions on
the front and the actual situation. The main guilt of people
such as Fritzsche is that they did know the actual state of
things, but despite this, proceeding according to the criminal
intentions of the Hitler Government, consciously fed the people
with lies or, to use a German expression, ‘threw sand in their
eyes.’”

Tell me, Defendant Fritzsche, does this characterization of German propaganda correspond to the truth?

FRITZSCHE: That is utter nonsense and it happens that I can partly prove that. Herr Schörner says part of the activity of the war correspondent General Dittmar was the starting of aggressive wars. General Dittmar spoke over the radio for the first time in the winter of 1942-43. That is one point.

The second point is the following: I have never seen Herr Schörner. I do not know him and I have never spoken to him. I should be very surprised if he were in a position to judge whether I deliberately or unconsciously at any time ever said anything that was not true. However—and this is something I must add—during the last few days in Berlin I received indirectly, through State Secretary Dr. Naumann, a report from General Field Marshal Schörner with the instruction that it was left to my discretion to make use of it. It reported that he was in Bohemia with an army which was intact and that he could, if he wanted to, hold this territory for an unlimited period. We in Berlin should not lose courage; he could even come to our aid. I do not know whether Schörner actually made this statement but I think it would be worth while to call General Field Marshal Schörner here as a witness, in order to ask him on what he based his judgment.

GEN. RUDENKO: The fact that you do not know Ferdinand Schörner does not disprove this testimony, for you have yourself stated before this Tribunal that although very many people knew you as an official representative of the Government, you could, of course, not know everybody; is that right?

FRITZSCHE: If you will permit me, sir, I should like to call your attention to something illogical. Even without knowing me, it is very easy for anyone to give an opinion about the things I said, but it is impossible for anyone to judge whether I made those statements in good faith or in bad faith. I am sure that you yourself realize this distinction.

GEN. RUDENKO: You are speaking again of your personal participation, but you do not deny the lying character of the German propaganda?

FRITZSCHE: Again I cannot answer “yes” to the question in the way that you put it. This morning I gave you a basis for questions which can be put to me. I contributed my share to a historical clarification by trying to show what was pure idealism and what were false assumptions; these things are now being confused.

GEN. RUDENKO: I am not putting questions on the basis which you pretend you gave me, but upon the basis of documents which are at the disposal of the Prosecution.

Let us go on. I should like to ask you: Did you know the documents about the “Case Green” against Czechoslovakia, about the documents concerning the aggression against Poland, the aggression against Yugoslavia—and about the propaganda which had to be conducted in this respect?

FRITZSCHE: I heard for the first time here the documentary data for Case Green. But as you are now again trying to tie this up with propaganda measures, it is very hard for me to keep both of these matters separate. Perhaps it will serve your purpose if I answer that neither in the case of Czechoslovakia nor in the case of Poland nor in any other case did I know about the German attacks until an hour or an hour and a half before they were announced to the German public.

GEN. RUDENKO: Did you say an hour or an hour and a half?

FRITZSCHE: I do not wish to commit myself to an hour or an hour and a half. I do recall that in the case of Russia I had advance knowledge through Dr. Goebbels perhaps 5 or 6 hours beforehand.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. You will now be handed Document USSR-493. It is your radio speech in connection with the aggression against Poland. This speech was made on 29 August. Its purpose was to explain beforehand the reasons for the German attack on Poland and it was made on 29 August. I do not intend reading it, but the gist of this speech is that on 29 August you spoke of a series of unexpected events which were imminent. Have you acquainted yourself with this document?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, indeed.

GEN. RUDENKO: You do not deny that on 29 August 1939 you made this speech?

FRITZSCHE: No, I do not deny that. I should just like to refer to the fact...

GEN. RUDENKO: Excuse me. Please answer my question first and give your explanations later. This was on 29 August? You do not deny it. I am asking you, did you yourself believe in these explanations of unavoidable war with Poland? Did you yourself believe this at that moment?

FRITZSCHE: Whether at that moment I considered a war unavoidable, that I am not in a position to tell you. But I am able to tell you one thing: I did not believe that Germany was to blame. That if this tension should lead to a war...

GEN. RUDENKO: That is enough.

FRITZSCHE: I ask to be allowed to add...

GEN. RUDENKO: But please be brief.

THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, let the man answer.

GEN. RUDENKO: If you please.

FRITZSCHE: At that time it was a matter of great satisfaction to me that in the weeks that followed I could see from the Soviet press that Soviet Russia and its Government shared the German opinion of the question of war guilt in this case.

GEN. RUDENKO: I believe it is not the time to discuss this now nor did I ask you for explanations on this subject. You did not answer my question, but let us pass on to another question. On 9 April 1940 you made a speech concerning the reasons for a possible occupation of Norway. You will now be handed an extract from this speech.

Mr. President, this is Document Number USSR-496.

You have that document, Defendant Fritzsche. It is Excerpt Number 4.

FRITZSCHE: No, I do not have it. Yes, I have found it. It is Page 4.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Yes, it is Excerpt Number 4. I will read a short passage:

“The fact that German soldiers had to carry out their duty
because the English violated Norwegian neutrality did not end in
a warlike but in a peaceful action. No one was injured, not a
single house was destroyed; life took its daily course.”

This was a lie. Do you admit it or will you deny it?

FRITZSCHE: No, that was not a lie, for I had just been in Norway myself and I had seen these things. And everything will be quite clear if you will permit me to read the next sentence, which says—the next sentence reads as follows...

GEN. RUDENKO: Defendant Fritzsche, wait a minute. You will read it later.

THE PRESIDENT: But, General Rudenko, you must let the man explain. He wants to read the next sentence in order to explain this sentence.

FRITZSCHE: The next sentence reads:

“Even there, where Norwegian troops, instigated by the misguided
former Norwegian Government, put up resistance, the civilian
population was hardly affected by this, for the Norwegians
fought outside the cities and villages....”

GEN. RUDENKO: Well. Now I will show you a document, “An Official Report of the Norwegian Government,” which has already been submitted to the Tribunal by the French Prosecution as Exhibit RF-72.

Mr. President, in my document book this document is wrongly numbered Exhibit USSR-78. It is Document 1800-PS and it has been submitted by the French Prosecution as Exhibit RF-72.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Listen, Defendant Fritzsche, how correctly you described the situation in Norway; listen what the “Official Report of the Norwegian Government” says about it. I quote:

“The German attack on Norway on the 9th of April 1940 brought
war to Norway for the first time in 126 years. For 2 months war
raged throughout the country, causing destruction to the amount
of 250 million kroner. More than 40,000 houses were damaged or
destroyed and about 1,000 civilians were killed.”

And that describes the situation as it really was. Do you admit that your speech on 2 May 1940 was full of the usual lies?

FRITZSCHE: No, I do not admit that, but I assert that you, sir, in submitting this extract, are not taking into consideration the fact that I, in my introduction, reported that I wanted to describe what I had seen myself, when I made a journey into the Gulbran valley and which I remember took me nearly as far as Atta. It does not in any way prove my description to be incorrect, if, according to the facts ascertained by the Norwegian Government, such loss and damage actually did occur in connection with this undertaking.

GEN. RUDENKO: I believe that the Norwegian people and the Norwegian Government had sufficient experience of the weight of the German occupation, and the government report states actual facts and not the sort of facts which you stated in your propaganda. This document has been submitted in accordance with Article 21 as indisputable evidence, and I do not intend to argue with you. The Tribunal will take note of it. I have a few more questions to put to you in connection with a matter which has already been dealt with in detail here. It is the _Athenia_ case. I will not question you in detail on this matter, as it has already been ascertained with sufficient accuracy. I am simply asking you: Do you admit now that Fascist propaganda gave out to the public slanderous and false information about the _Athenia_ case?

FRITZSCHE: Whether this was done by Fascist propaganda in Italy, that I do not know. National Socialist propaganda did it in good faith, as I have clearly described.

GEN. RUDENKO: I have already been speaking for nearly an hour about what occurred here and what has been ascertained. Do you agree that this speech was a slanderous one or do you still deny it?

FRITZSCHE: No, I have already admitted that and I also showed clearly how these statements came about.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I am interested only in the personal part you played in this matter. Why did you take such an active part in this matter, and why were you the first man to spread this slander?

FRITZSCHE: I do not believe that I was the first one to bring this matter before the public. However, it is a fact that I spoke very frequently about the case of the _Athenia_, on the basis of official reports which I believed. I spoke about this case because I happened to be the very man who, at the beginning of the war, spoke on the radio in the evenings.

GEN. RUDENKO: Are you trying to assert that the first report on the _Athenia_ appeared in the _Völkischer Beobachter_ in October, 1939?

FRITZSCHE: I never claimed that.

GEN. RUDENKO: Well. Then I will remind you that you dealt with the _Athenia_ as early as September 1939; is that right?

FRITZSCHE: Yes, of course, the question of the _Athenia_...

GEN. RUDENKO: And you spoke about it before the report was published in the _Völkischer Beobachter_?

FRITZSCHE: Many weeks before that, yes.

GEN. RUDENKO: Therefore, you were the first to spread those slanderous assertions?

FRITZSCHE: No, I cannot confirm that, but rather...

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. In this connection I will put only one other question to you. You will not deny that in 1940 you still spread this version? I will repeat the question. I am asking you, you will not deny that even in 1940 you continued to propagate this slander?

FRITZSCHE: It is the essence of every form of propaganda that it repeats good and effective things as frequently and for as long a time as possible. I have explained already that in December of 1945, here in the prison only, I heard from Grossadmiral Raeder for the first time that it was really a German U-boat that had stink the _Athenia_.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I will pass on to a group of questions regarding your participation in the carrying out of propaganda connected with the preparation of aggression against the Soviet Union. You assert that you had no knowledge of the preparation of aggression against the Soviet Union until 5 o’clock on the morning of 22 June 1941—that is to say, when the German troops had already entered Soviet territory—and when you were called by Ribbentrop to the Foreign Office, where a press conference was being held. Did I correctly understand your testimony?

FRITZSCHE: No. Several hours before that, on the evening of the day preceding the entry, Dr. Goebbels had called some of the departmental chiefs of the Ministry to his house at Wannsee and told them these facts and forbade them to leave or to telephone. That was the first real knowledge that I had of this fact.

GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. You also claim that you got to know of Germany’s aggressive aims with regard to the Soviet Union only in 1942, and this according to your own observations, is that right?

FRITZSCHE: I do not know what you mean by that. I tried this morning to make it clear that I began to have doubts as to the truth of the official German reasons given for this attack only when I was in prison. I explained that this morning. A second point, which I emphasized earlier in Moscow when I was interrogated, was that I observed in 1942—it may have been in 1941—after the war with the Soviet Union had broken out, that preparations of all kinds must have been going on for quite some time before 22 June.

GEN. RUDENKO: I will recall to your memory an excerpt from your statement, a document which you confirm in full. It is Number 3469-PS. In Paragraph 42 we read: