Chapter IX

Visit To Home And "The Association Of Prayers."

At the Provincial Chapter, Father Ignatius was chosen Rector of St. Joseph's Retreat, The Hyde. It was also arranged that before proceeding further with his projects and schemes for prayers and unity, he should submit them to the Roman _Curia_. He accordingly starts for Rome on September 4, and arrives at the Retreat of SS. John and Paul on the 13th. We shall let himself relate the events and success of this expedition.

"I went on then, taking occasions as they were offered me to move
Catholics to interest themselves in it till September, 1851, when I
went to Rome. I had other reasons for going; but it might well be
expected that what mainly interested me was to recommend the cause
of England's conversion in the centre of Catholicity, and to obtain
from the Holy See sanction and authority for pursuing this end as I
had been doing before, or in whatever way would be deemed
preferable. I was four months and a half at Rome, with the
interruption of a fortnight, during which I was engaged on a mission
in the country with some of our Fathers. My affair had to be
transacted, as may be supposed, chiefly at the Propaganda, where the
affairs of all Catholic missions are managed and directed, much in
the way that our Board of Admiralty directs all the naval operations
of this country, but under entire dependence on his Holiness and
obedience to him--the secretary of the Propaganda, Monsignor
Barnabò, having regularly once a week, that is, every Sunday
evening, an audience of the Pope, to make him reports, and to
receive his orders. For the first six weeks or two months I felt my
footing at the Propaganda more or less {414} doubtful and
precarious. I did not gain much attention. This was mortifying; but
I see, and I saw it then, to be right. The Propaganda is a place
where all Catholic schemers and projectors in matters of religion
try to get a hearing--as our Admiralty is besieged, I suppose, by
all who think they have an important proposal to make for naval
enterprise or improvement. They must be kept at arm's length for a
time, till it is judged whether their ideas are worth attending to.
It was on the 1st of November that it happened that I dined at the
College of Propaganda, and sat next to Monsignor Barnabò, who made
me a remark about in these words: 'Surely if you can convert
England, we should gain half the world--or all the world,' I forget
which. I answered, 'Well, Monsignor, and why not try?' Nothing more
was said then; but it seemed to me as if this was the turning-point
of my fortunes at Rome. Certain it is, that from that time Monsignor
Barnabò, in the midst of all his pressing affairs, was invariably
ready to listen to me at the office or at his own house, read
through all my long memorials, spoke for me to the Pope whenever I
asked him, and gained me what I asked on this matter, had my papers
printed free of cost at the press of the Propaganda, &c. It had been
told me previously by one of the minutanti (under secretaries) of
the Propaganda, Monsignor Vespasiani, that my proposals would be
looked upon more favourably, if England were not mentioned as the
only object of interest. He adverted especially with great feeling
to the case of the Greeks, of whom he spoke as possessing genius and
capacity for such great things, if they were only reunited to the
Church. At his suggestion I drew up, in concert with one of our
Fathers, a paper of proposals for an Association for the Conversion
of all separated from the Church, giving reasons, however, as I do
in the little paper of admission to our Association, why we should
direct our immediate aim at the recovery of those nations which have
been separated from the Church by heresy or schism, and why, among
these, England should still be regarded as the most important and
leading object. This document was read by Mgr. Barnabò, who ordered
5,000 copies to be printed by the press of the {415}
Propaganda--rather, he told me, to order as many as I wished, as
well as of another shorter paper containing an invitation to prayer
and good works for the conversion of all separated from the Church,
but especially of England. This shorter one was prepared at the
express desire of the Cardinal-Vicar of Rome, and distributed by his
order through all the religious houses of the city. To pass over
other details, it was on the 26th of November that I received a
letter of recommendation, addressed by the Cardinal-Prefect of
Propaganda to all Bishops, Vicars-Apostolic, and Superiors of
Missions in the world, desiring them to receive me favourably and to
assist me in my designs to the utmost of their power. The words in
Latin at this part of the letter are the following:--'... Proindeque
illum sacrae congregationis testimonialibus hisce literis instructum
esse volumus, ut omnes Episcopi, Vicarii Apostolici, et Missionum
Superiores benigne illum excipere, ac pro viribus piissimis ejusdem
votis favere haud omittant.' As I have not this letter at hand while
writing, I quote this part from memory. The former part, of which I
have not the words by heart, expresses why this recommendation was
to be given me; namely, because my zeal for promoting the Catholic
faith, especially among my people of England, was highly to be
commended. Now, if the Propaganda should have ever heard anything
true about how I carried on my ordinary duties in England, they
could only have heard that I had not incurred suspension, though I
might have deserved it; and that, in comparison with my brother
priests in our great towns, for instance, what I had done for
religion must be put down as next to nothing. The only thing on
which they could ever have heard me spoken about as remarkable must
have been my exertions, which, against my wishes, I must certainly
concede to have been _singularly_ active and persevering in calling
people's attention to the object of the _conversion of England_ and
to prayers for it.

"I was surprised at receiving this letter; but I was not satisfied
with it: it sharpened my appetite to get more. I returned to the
Palace of the Propaganda to give thanks for it, and then asked for a
special letter to the Prelates of {416} Ireland. I do not here enter
into details about this: I intend, if permitted, explaining all
which regards this subject in some letters addressed especially to
the Irish people, in the _Tablet_. I mention it here only to quote
from this second letter the words in which is explained more
particularly the idea which was formed at the Propaganda of the
object which they were recommending. They call it 'Opus quod
Reverendus Pater Ignatius promovere satagit, ut nempe Catholici pro
Acatholicorum, praesertim Angliae, conversione veluti agmine facto,
ferventiori jugiter ratione preces fundant ....' which I thus
translate: 'The object which the Rev. Father Ignatius is engaged in
promoting, namely, that Catholics should, as it were, form
themselves into an army set in array, and with continually
increasing fervour pour forth prayers for the conversion of
non-Catholics, but especially of England." Now, I do not know how
these documents may strike others; but it seems to me that if, after
having taken a journey to Rome on purpose to plead my cause there,
and after having received letters like these in answer to my
appeals, I was just now to relax in my zeal to promote prayers and
good works for the conversion of Protestants, but especially of
England, this would be not falling into the views of the Holy See,
as some seem to think it would, but rather showing indifference and
almost contempt for them, and repaying with ingratitude the great
favours which I have received. I must reserve to another letter some
account of my interviews with his Holiness in person.

"I am, Sir, your faithful servant in Jesus Christ,
"Ignatius Of St. Paul, Passionist."

Here is the account of the audiences he had with the Pope on the subject of prayers for the conversion of England. It is taken from his letters to the _Catholic Standard_:--

Audiences With Pope Pius IX.

I beg to give an account of what passed upon the subject of the
conversion of England in the audiences I was allowed {417} by the
Holy Father. They were three. The first was on September 16, 1851,
three days after my arrival in Rome; the second, December 23; the
third, January 30, 1852, the day before I left Rome. It was on my
return home in the evening after that last audience that I met Mgr.
Vespasiani, the prelate whom I have before named as one of the
Minutanti of the Propaganda, the first person in office at Rome who
gave full and attentive consideration to my proposals. This was on
the 14th of October, 1851. Full of satisfaction as I was, I
expressed to him anew my gratitude for that favour, adding that now
I was leaving Rome, I felt as if I had nothing more to ask. All was
gained. Such, indeed, were my feelings then. He kindly accepted my
acknowledgments, and seemed to sympathize in my satisfaction, but
looked incredulous as to my having nothing more to ask, and with a
smile, said something to this effect, "You will want plenty more;
and, when you desire, you will command our services." I suppose he
was right. My feeling was then, and I conceive it was well grounded,
that, as far as regarded the mind of his Holiness, I had gained all,
on the subject which most engaged me, and which I am now pursuing;
and I felt as if in having reached this point all was done. So, I
trust, it will prove in time; but I see plainly enough there is work
to be done before the mind of the Holy Father will be carried out;
others must be moved to correspond with it. I must explain myself by
stating facts. In my first two audiences, I think I may say that the
principle was approved by his Holiness, that Catholics might be
moved all through the world to engage in the enterprise of
converting England; but that he must not be represented as caring
for England exclusively, as he was father to all. There was no
objection here expressed to my being specially interested for my own
country. On the contrary, the Pope agreed to, and approved of, my
continuing to urge the Roman people to join in this cause, as well
as pursuing the same object in Austria, whither I told him I was
going, and elsewhere. In my second audience I said to him: "Holy
Father, may I repeat truly here what I am saying outside? I am
openly stirring the people of Rome to a third conquest of England.
{418} Rome conquered England once, under Julius Caesar, by the
material sword. Rome conquered England a second time, more
gloriously, under St. Gregory I., by the Word of God. I am calling
on Rome to undertake this conquest again, under Pius IX., when it
will be a vastly more important one than heretofore, and by means
more glorious and more divine, because referring more purely the
glory to God, being chiefly holy prayer." The Pope did not speak in
answer to this appeal; but, if I rightly judged, his manner and
looks expressed his acceptance and approval of the idea better than
words could have done. However, though I might say I had succeeded
as well as I could have expected in these first two audiences, the
second of which I looked upon as final, as in it I had taken my
leave of his Holiness, there was yet something wanting. I was
preparing to leave Rome not quite satisfied, though I knew not how
to better my position. I will relate how the happy conclusion was
brought round. My departure was unexpectedly delayed in order that I
might assist at a mission to be given by our fathers, in the town of
Marino, on the Alban mountains, which was in the diocese of the
Cardinal-Vicar, at whose request the mission was given. I went to
the mission, not so much to work, as to see, and hear, and learn for
myself; but the crowd of penitents was such, that during the last
week of it I gave myself entirely to the confessions; and having no
part in the preaching, I never did such a week's work at confessions
as that. I returned to Rome alone on January 18, to prepare for my
departure, leaving the other Fathers to begin a second mission at
Albano; and it struck me my week's work for the Cardinal-Vicar need
not be altogether its own reward. I visited him the next day, as to
make a report of the mission, which was highly satisfactory. I then
said, "I have done a heavy week's work for your Eminence, and I come
to claim _il mio stipendio_ (my pay)." "And what," said he, "is
that?" "A few minutes' patience," I replied, "to hear me again on
the cause of England. I want Rome to be effectually moved." "But,"
said he again, "what can we do? I have distributed your papers. I
will recommend {419} it again; what more do you want? Perhaps the
Pope could suggest something; go to him again." I answered, "I have
had my final audience, and received his last blessing. Can I go
again?" "Oh, yes. Go; you may use my name." I went straight to the
Vatican, and Monsignor Talbot placed me, according to custom, in a
saloon, through which the Pope was to pass at three o'clock, to take
his daily drive. I told his Holiness what had brought me again
before him. I had received recommendations to all the world, but I
was particularly intent on moving Rome. "Surely," he said, "that is
the most important place. Write me a memorial, and we will consult
over it." I lost no time in doing so. In it I dwelt on two objects;
first, I entreated the Holy Father to take such measures as he might
in his wisdom think fit, to move all Christendom to undertake the
recovery of the nations which had been lost to the Church, and
specially England. And with regard to Rome, I stated the case thus.
I had received from the congregations through which his Holiness
intimates his pleasure to the whole Church, an earnest
recommendation to all Bishops to support me to the utmost of their
power in my enterprise. Was it to be conceived, I asked, that the
Bishop of the first See was alone excluded from this recommendation?
Surely not; and therefore in the name of his Holiness, as head of
the Universal Church, I appealed to his Holiness as Bishop of Rome,
and entreated that he would give an example to all other Bishops,
how a mandate of the Holy See ought to be obeyed. It was not for me
to offer directions how this should be done; but if I were to make a
suggestion, I would ask that a Prelate should be named, with an
authority to engage the help of other zealous ecclesiastics, and
with them to instruct the people of Rome in the importance and
beauty of the work, and to engage them in it with persevering zeal.
I took this memorial to the Cardinal-Vicar, who read through the
latter part with me, and said, with an air of satisfaction, "_That
will do; that will do very well_"--promising to present it to the
Pope. I begged him to say besides, that the Prelate I had in my mind
was Monsignor Talbot. This was on January 23. On the 26th, Monsignor
{420} Barnabò told me that all had been favourably received. I
thought I had nothing to do but to arrange with Monsignor Talbot
what he might do, and for this purpose I went on the 30th of January
to see him, accompanied by one of our Fathers. I had bid him
farewell, when my companion said, "May we see the Pope?" I was
rather annoyed at this: the sight of the Pope intended was merely to
be once more placed in his way as he would pass one of the saloons:
and I felt it would be unreasonable and intrusive for me to be seen
there again; but I thought it would be selfish to disappoint my
companion, who had sacrificed so much of his time to gratify me, and
I said nothing. We were, therefore, taken into the saloon, as it was
just the time for the Pope's drive. There, however, we waited one
quarter, two quarters, three quarters of an hour. I concluded, what
was the case, that the Pope was not going out, and expected
presently to be told to go away. Instead of this Monsignor Talbot
came and beckoned us into the Pope's private room, where he was
sitting in the window recess perfectly at his ease, and received us
with these words addressed to me:--"Well, Father Ignatius, we have
done something now." "Indeed, Holy Father," said I, "this is true. I
see this work now in the way to become the most favoured of all,
entrusted, as it is, to a Prelate who has his time so disposed that
one week he is free to work, and the other he returns to attendance
on your Holiness to make his reports, and receive new instructions."
"Not only so," replied the Pope, "there are four of them. He has but
one week entirely engaged with me; besides the one out of four
wholly free, he has but two or three hours every day on duty in the
other two. But remember, I will not have England alone thought of."
"Holy Father," I said, "this alteration has been made. The
undertaking is for all separated nations; England being proposed
only as the most important point of attack, on several accounts. I
beg, however, to ask that the term heretics may not be used as the
general designation of those we pray for. I do not confess to wilful
heresy before my conversion. I do not confess for this sin for my
countrymen at large." "Ah! what say you?" answered the Pope; then
{421} he reflected for a moment and graciously bowed. In accordance
with this request, in my letter from the Propaganda the term is not
_haereticorum_, but _acatholicorum praesertim Angliae_. I went on:
"Holy Father, I ask one more favour. Cardinal Fornari has agreed, if
he is named by your Holiness, to accept the charge of Protector to
this work." "What need of this?" answered the Pope; "I have desired
the Cardinal-Vicar to recommend the work to Rome, and Cardinal
Fornari is a Roman. Is that not enough?" "Holy Father," I replied,
"what is requested is, that he should be empowered to act in it as
Cardinal." After another pause his Holiness again graciously bowed
and said: "Well, be it so." Thus the discourse on this subject
terminated: and, if I have intelligibly explained myself, will it
not be allowed that I had reason to go home satisfied, in the
reflection that the work of the conversion of Protestants, but
chiefly England, was now erected--as far as regarded the part which
the holy Father had to take in it--into what may be almost called a
congregation in the Holy City, to be composed of prelates and
ecclesiastics, of whom the first active member was among his
Holiness's domestic attendants; and the Cardinal Protector was one
of the most distinguished of the Sacred College, who in his first
conversation with me declared his most lively interest in England,
as having himself, as Professor in the Roman Seminary, directed the
studies in Theology of Cardinal Wiseman, and four others, now
Bishops in England, besides two deceased. I must close this long
letter with one more fact, which came to my knowledge, bringing home
to me the consoling conviction, how deeply the heart of our Holy
Father is interested in the great work. When I was in Paris, this
cause of England was ardently taken up by a gentleman noted for his
Catholic zeal, a distinguished merchant in Havre. On my leaving
Paris he begged me to give him a letter of credentials, that, in his
mercantile travels, he might in my name interest Bishops and other
leading personages in our favour. In November last he enclosed me a
letter he had received from the Vicar-General of Nantes, to whom he
had applied to recommend this object to his Bishop. It was in these
{422} terms: "I will gladly perform your commission, and I have no
doubt his Lordship will comply with your wish; the more so that,
returning from Rome a few days back, I have brought to him a message
to the same effect from his Holiness. In my first audience the Pope
said to me: 'Tell the Bishop of Nantes, from me, that I desire he
will pray, and cause others to pray, a great deal for England. The
position of the Church in that kingdom interests me deeply; I am
always thinking of it.' In my second audience the Holy Father
repeated to me the same words, and in a tone of feeling such as I
can never forget. I am convinced this subject occupies his mind
continually." Is it, now, to be supposed that the Holy Father is
averse to English and Irish Catholics praying especially for
England, and praying much for it? Is it not, on the contrary, to be
inferred from these statements, and those of my last two letters,
that it would console his heart to see them devotedly engaged in the
work? I think this is the conclusion to which we shall all arrive,
and that this happy result may in due time--and why not soon?--be
abundantly realized.

He says in another letter:--

"I begin with repeating again the words of St. Jerome to Pope
Damasus: 'He who gathereth not with thee scattereth,' and I renew my
declaration that if I thought that by exerting myself to move the
Catholics of England and Ireland, and, in general, of all the world,
to the enterprise of gaining England, my country, back to the faith
of our fathers, I was not working in accordance with the mind of his
Holiness, I should not dare to proceed. Will my dear Catholic
brethren meet me with the assurance that if it appears by facts that
this enterprise is according to his mind, they will heartily devote
themselves to the cause and help us?

"It seems to me still, as it always did, impossible to conceive how
these efforts, carried on as they are proposed to be, in perfect
accordance with devoted loyalty to the State, and in a spirit of
ardent charity towards our fellow-countrymen, should not be
gratifying to the Church of God and to its Head. Many times have I
repeated in sermons to the Irish people during the days of the
troubles of his Holiness: {423} 'You have joined with noble
generosity in assisting the Holy Father by subscriptions of money,
you have entered fervently into prayer for him, will you not do one
thing more to console him? Let him hear that you are determined that
my country, with its great resources and power, shall once more be
his.' This was, I think, a reasonable natural suggestion.

"It was, accordingly, a surprise to me, and at the same time a pain,
when I was told by one, about the beginning of the year 1851, that
his Holiness was become almost averse to our efforts in behalf of
England; as on being applied to for some new indulgence for certain
prayers for England, he would not grant the petition unless Italy
was comprehended in the intention of the prayers. Another said
positively that the Pope would give no more indulgences for prayers
for England. These things were said, as so many more things have
been said, apparently in a half-joking tone, to mortify me in what
is known to be a tender point. "Well, everything may turn to account
for good, if we pay attention. These remarks helped to stimulate me
to ascertain perfectly what the truth of the case is, and they now
give me occasion to explain publicly some of the facts on which the
matter has to be judged.

"In May, 1850, a student of the English College at Rome, just
ordained, went to receive the Pope's blessing before his return to
England. He presented a crucifix to his Holiness, and begged for an
indulgence of 300 days for whoever kissed this crucifix, and said a
Hail Mary for the conversion of England. The Pope sat down and wrote
with his own hand at the foot of the petition, that he granted 300
days' indulgence for those who should offer a devout prayer, as for
instance a Hail Mary, for the conversion of England. When this was
reported to me, as there appeared some kind of ambiguity in one
expression of the Pope's writing, I wrote to Monsignor Talbot,
begging that he would ascertain from his Holiness whether we were
right in interpreting the sentence as granting the indulgence
generally without any reference to the crucifix. The answer was,
'Yes.' Evidently then, at this time, the Pope was disposed to grant
more in favour of England than he was asked. How are {424} we to
account for the seeming alteration in his dispositions? One way is
to suppose that the Pope had ceased to wish prayers to be made for
England. Monsignor Talbot, when I saw him at Rome in September,
1851, gave me another reason. 'The Pope,' said he, 'is determined he
will give no more indulgences for England. People seem not to care
for them. No account is made of them. Let them first show they value
what they have.' No authority, on such a point, could be preferable
to that of Monsignor Talbot, who spends his life in personal
attendance on his Holiness; and according to him, the Pope did, in a
tone of some displeasure, refuse one or two such requests, the
displeasure was not because people prayed too much for England, but
because they did not pray enough, and on this account, did not
deserve any more encouragement. This view I maintain with the more
confidence, inasmuch as after that displeasure had been expressed, a
petition was made on March 9, 1851, by some English ladies in Rome
for a plenary indulgence to be gained once a month by those who
should daily pray for the conversion of England: it was granted as
stated in our admission papers. I infer from this, that if only the
Holy Father perceived that the Catholics of England were really in
earnest in the cause, there would be no bounds to the liberality
with which he would encourage them; but no one likes to go on giving
favours to persons who seem not to value them; and he who has the
dispensing of the favours of Almighty God from the treasuries of the
Church, must not consent to their being undervalued.

"But now, it will be asked, what encouragement did I myself receive
from his Holiness during the four months and a half that I spent in
Rome, as a kind of representative of this cause of the conversion of
England? I need not say that, in going to Rome, I was desirous to
move all hearts there to an enthusiastic devotion to this
enterprise, as I had endeavoured to do in Ireland, in France, in
Belgium, and Germany. I fain would not have lost an occasion of
preaching in churches, addressing religious communities, the
children of schools, wherever I could find them assembled. I did not
expect, however, to be able at once to run such a career in {425}
Rome, as in ordinary towns, and I was greatly satisfied with what
was allowed me. Whatever difficulty or check I might have met with,
it came not from his Holiness. The proper authority to apply to in
this case was the Cardinal-Vicar; that is, he who administers the
very diocese of Rome as the Pope's Vicar-General. He at once agreed
to my visiting convents and schools, and exhorting them to the great
work; but for preaching in churches, there must be, he said, express
sanction from the Pope. The Holy Father was consequently consulted
by Monsignor Talbot, and answered that he had no objection, but left
it to me to make arrangements with the rectors of the churches. The
number of monasteries and schools in which I made my allocutions on
the conversion of England, is past my remembrance. Almost day by
day, for about two months of my time, this was my leading pursuit. I
wish it to be clearly understood that all this time I spoke all that
was in my mind with as complete freedom from reserve as I am known
to exercise here. To the authorities in Rome, who are not wanting in
vigilance, all must have been known; and one word from them of
objection to the subject, or to my manner of treating it, spoken to
my superiors, would have at once stopped me. The number of churches
in which I spoke was not so great. I used generally to ask leave
myself to address convents and schools. I saw that it would not be
becoming to offer myself thus to speak in churches at Rome; but
among others I may mention particularly, that I preached by
invitation, in English, in French, and in Italian, in those of the
large and frequented churches S. Andrea della Valle, S. Luigi de'
Francesi, and S. Andrea della Fratte; and the Pope himself spoke to
me of this last discourse in a tone of satisfaction. He would not
have been opposed, as far as could be observed, if, instead of three
churches, I could have made up a list of three hundred.

"Another means I took for moving the Roman people was, by the papers
printed for me by the Propaganda, of which I spoke in my last
letter. The first of these was thus headed:--'Association of Prayers
and Good Works for the Conversion of those who are separated from
the Holy Catholic Church, but especially of England.' Before this
{426} writing was printed, I gave a copy of it to Monsignor Talbot,
to lay before the Pope. He returned it to me, with this addition in
his own hand:--

"'His Holiness has deigned to grant to this pious work his special
benediction.

"'George Talbot, Cameriere Segreto.
"'_Nov_. 15, 1851.'

"To this is appended the petition presented for me by Monsignor
Barnabò, for the extension of indulgences, as follows:--

"'Most Blessed Father,--Ignatius of St. Paul (Spencer), Passionist,
Provincial Consultor in England, prostrate at the feet of your
Holiness, states that, being desirous of extending the Association
of Prayers already existing for England, in favour of all those who
are separated from the Holy Church, and being sensible that a fresh
spiritual attraction is necessary in order to move all the faithful
to enter on this holy enterprise, most humbly implores your
Holiness, that you would be pleased to extend the three hundred
days' indulgence already granted by your Holiness to whoever prays
for the conversion of England, to this new work, and moreover grant
one hundred days for whatever good work may be done in favour of
this Association.'

"Monsignor Barnabò reported, that though the Pope adverted to his
former declaration, that he would give no more indulgences on this
account, he granted this petition in the most gracious manner. The
date of this grant is Nov. 16, 1851.

"It is evidently intimated here, that while granting his sanction to
the extension of the enterprise, he renewed his sanction to it in
its original form. I must here conclude, and defer again to another
letter what I promised before, that is, some account of what passed
in the audiences to which I myself was admitted by his Holiness."

An incident happened towards the end of Father Ignatius's audiences
with the Holy Father, highly characteristic. Father Ignatius had
made arrangements for a begging tour in Germany, and intended to
inaugurate it by trying what {427} he could do in that line in Rome
itself. Our General forbade him to beg of his Holiness, and Father
Ignatius had made up his mind before to do so. After the prohibition
he began to doubt whether it was binding, as the Pope was a higher
superior than the General. He consulted an astute Roman theologian
on his doubt, and the answer given was, "Lay the doubt itself before
the Pope."

Father Ignatius had an audience in store for him for a different
matter, and when it was over, he said, in the greatest simplicity,
"Holy Father, I have a scruple on my mind, which I would wish to
speak about, if I might be permitted." "Well, and what is it?" He
here told the Pope just as he was advised. The Pope smiled, handed
him ten _gregorine_ (about £25), and told him not to mind the
scruple.

{428}