Chapter IV (2)

The Duke says, that, with regard to the dispute between Lord W----
and Mr. W----, it stands independent of all other subjects; and as
Lord W---- is now compelled to put in his answer (the rule being
made absolute), and as the case must ultimately be most injurious
and disgraceful in all its bearings to Lord W---- (as it affects
his conduct to Mr. W----), he thinks the best advice to be given to
Lord W----, and the best course for him to follow, would be for him
to write a letter to Mr. W----, saying that though he still
condemns, and shall never cease to condemn, the injurious manner in
which Mr. W----'s counsel had thought proper and been advised to
treat him in his pleadings, yet he was sorry for the conduct he had
adopted to Mr. W---- in consequence thereof, and was ready to offer
his apology. This would satisfy W----, and stop his further
proceedings, and thus end this part of the business. The second
consideration--namely, the separation and allowance--this must now,
of course, be decided, and under some strict and clear covenant;
and which, undoubtedly, could best be done by arbitration of mutual
friends. Lord C---- would guarantee any pledge or engagement on the
part of his sister, and the same could be done on the part of Lord
W----. Indeed, if she were disposed to make difficulties, her
family would urge her to it. The Duke is quite satisfied that she
would now most willingly do what she has repeatedly offered--namely,
to decide the question by a reference to friends; and to show how
far he has before effected this object, he put into my hands the
enclosed, which was the terms agreed to in 1819 by both parties,
and which the Duke is convinced, if they had been acted upon, Lord
W---- would now have been in his wife's bed. Of course, that part
which relates to their residence in the same house is now gone by,
and it must be separation; but the great object is, if possible, to
separate, by a distinct arrangement, the dispute with W----. This
is the part that affects Lord W---- the most; and it is in order to
lessen the heavy censure that would fall on him by the exposure of
_all his conduct_ towards Mr. W----, that he now seeks to ... to
mingle the Duke in the history. Lady W---- cannot proceed in this
cause if W---- is satisfied, for she cannot plead or maintain his
case for him.

Nothing of importance occurred in Court on Saturday. The Lord
Chancellor has got rid of it, and turned it over to Judge Dallas,
who requires more time; so there is now time for friends to
interfere, if it can be done with effect.

You will understand the possession of the child. The Duke has
nothing to do with it. Lord W---- has her now with him. A _habeas
corpus_ has been moved, and the law must, of course, decide this.
You will be so good as to return the Duke's letter, as he desired
me to let him have it again. He really seems much obliged to you
for the interest you have taken about it, and I think is much more
at ease on the subject than he appeared to be on Friday. He knows
for _certain_ that Lord N---- did advise Lord W---- on the question
of Mr. W----.

Believe me, ever most truly yours,

W. H. FREMANTLE.

The Catholic Belief Bill continued to be warmly discussed in Parliament, and for a time almost excluded all other subjects of interest from public attention.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

House of Commons, Four o'clock.

I saw the Duke yesterday, who is truly thankful to you for the
interest and concern you take in the business. He is fully sensible
of the advantage on every ground to arbitrate in this matter,
though he treats with indignation the attempt to fix a guilt on
him. He states, in the most solemn manner, to me--and really in
such a manner as I cannot for a moment disbelieve--that he is
utterly innocent of the imputed charge; that it is a diabolical and
infamous conspiracy, which any man may be liable to; and that if it
proceeds, it will be necessary to expose and punish; that it is
utterly impossible, without fraud and falsehood of the grossest
kind, to bring home to him such a crime. Saying all this, he,
however, admits with you the effect of such a charge on his
character, until it is fully confuted and exposed.

With regard to the first proposition coming from Lady W----, it
would be impossible for him or any one to recommend her in the
first instance to stay proceedings, or to recommend Mr. W---- to do
so: it would be admitting her guilt, which no one could advise her
to do. The Duke is satisfied that she is ready to leave the whole
matter to reference, and I have no doubt I shall have a
communication from Lord C---- to that effect to-morrow; and if a
reference is made on the whole subject--namely, the separation, and
the income to be allowed--such reference and arrangement would
naturally have the ultimate effect of putting an end to all other
proceedings. But it is impossible for her, in the first instance,
to make this a preliminary engagement, or for him to recommend such
a step; it would be admitting a ground for the charge, which he
knows to be most foul and false as it concerns him; and it would be
a confession on her part of her guilt. It strikes me in the same
point of view; and on this ground, also, the Duke cannot be one of
the referees. You would be the best person, and the one most
desirable to all parties connected with her, on the part of Lord
W----; and she would be to name one equally approved by you and
Lord W----. As soon as I have seen Lord C----, who comes to town
to-day, I will let you know his decision and authority.

Ever most truly yours,

W. H. FREMANTLE.

We are in the greatest anxiety about the division to-night. The
best calculators say we shall gain it by four: this is too close.
No fresh news from Naples. The repulse of the 7th, with great
confusion, is fully believed. Canning certainly goes back to Paris
after Lambton's motion; he gives this out everywhere. The rumour
rather gains ground of your going to Ireland; but I don't know from
any authority.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

House of Commons, Four o'clock.

MY DEAR LORD,

I got your letter this morning, and had previously received one
yesterday evening from the Duke ... which I enclose you. It is
unnecessary, therefore, for me to stir on the subject, or to make a
further observation, till you have read the enclosed, and have
given me your opinion upon it, and what is the determination of
Lord W---- regarding the arbitration. I can only, however, add my
opinion, that it will be utterly impossible to make a previous
engagement to withdraw the proceedings now pending. They are, in
fact, deferred; and the result of an arbitration amicably concluded
would be the withdrawing of all questions now before the Courts of
Law.

Nothing can have been more successful than the whole proceedings on
the Catholic Bill; and there is no doubt but that the Security Bill
will also pass rapidly through the House. This will naturally bring
you to town, to share in the support of it through the House of
Lords.--I have just heard from Mr. Holmes (who said he knew the
fact), that a counter-revolution had taken place at Naples: the mob
had risen--disarmed the troops--spiked the guns--turned the
Parliament out of doors--proclaimed the Regent, Viceroy--and called
for the King's return. General Pepe had not been found, and most of
his army had abandoned him. The person left in command of the
troops at Naples was the first to turn tail. The cry was now, the
old Constitution!

I don't know anything further to tell you. The _old Court_ is
terribly dismayed by the success of the Catholic Bill, and I
believe put very little trust in the King's determination to resist
it. The whole thing in the Lords depends on _his_ decision, and
upon the conduct of Lord Liverpool; if he does not make a
_Ministerial_ business of it, there are great hopes it will be
carried.

Ever most truly yours,

W. H. FREMANTLE.

DR. PHILLIMORE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Whitehall, March 24.

MY DEAR LORD,

Plunket received by yesterday's post intelligence that his wife was
dying, and consequently set out immediately for Ireland. In spite
of this great disadvantage, we got through the first clause of the
Bill (that relative to the Oath of Supremacy), and gained three
upon the division more than we had on the second reading, the
numbers being 230 to 216. I think they will hardly make a fight
about Transubstantiation; but they will push all their strength on
the exclusion from Parliament, which Bankes will move on Monday. I
think the Bill will pass the House of Commons. I believe Lord
Duncannon and Mr. Holmes are agreed that we should have a majority
of 38, if the whole House were to attend. The notion is that Lord
Sidmouth, Vansittart, and B. Bathurst are to go out if the Bill is
carried. Peel is clearly paving the way for a junction with
Government, even though the Bill should pass; and Canning as
clearly holding out that there can be no obstacle in the way of his
sitting in the same Cabinet with Peel. Peel has not gained ground
by his conduct in the business; I should say he has lost rather in
the estimation of the House.

I sent your Lordship a copy of the Bill on the day it was
reprinted; the alteration was made because it appeared that
doubtful persons were less dissatisfied with it than with the
explanation.

Believe me,

Your Lordship's obliged and faithful,

JOSEPH PHILLIMORE.

MR. C. W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Saturday.

MY DEAR B----,

Notwithstanding the great loss which we sustained last night from
the absence of poor Plunket, who set off for Ireland with little
hope of finding his wife alive, we made a very good figure last
night. Castlereagh spoke better than I ever heard him. You will see
that your suggestion of adding some words to exclude all mental
reservation is adopted--that is to say, both Phillimore and
Castlereagh last night stated the willingness of the promoters of
the Bill to admit them, if any person thought it desirable to move
their insertion. Burrell, notwithstanding what he had said, came
and voted against us; but Curteis and Fox Lane, instead of only
staying away, voted with us. Davies Gilbert did not vote, but is so
completely turned that I have strong hopes of his vote on Monday.
We are also to have Denman, and I believe Abraham Moore, from the
Circuits; W. Pole, who was ill; Dennis Browne, and Sir Gerard Noel,
who were absent. Castlereagh has also promised to insist on
checking the activity of Holmes, who has been quite indefatigable
in the use of every means, fair and foul, to induce members to vote
against us. Lord Fife has been dismissed from the Bedchamber, in
consequence of his vote on the Malt Tax, and Lord Lovaine is to
succeed him.

What passed on that occasion is only a confirmation of the truth of
the Duke of Wellington's view of the state of administration, and
of the hollowness of their support on any question which is not
vital. I suppose they now look to replace the Doctor and Van. by
Peel and Canning, who are evidently extremely disposed to return
together.

I agree with you in thinking the Bill, as it originally stood, with
the explanation of the oath, was preferable to its present form;
but _on fait ce qu'on peut_ and _non ce qu'on veut_. The best way
of all would be to make the oath now proposed general for
Protestants and Catholics, but this, I fear, is impossible.

I fear that we shall be all Monday on the question of admissibility
to Parliament, and must reserve the Privy Council and the Judges
for Tuesday.

It is intended to add the second Bill in the shape of clauses to
the first. I suppose we can hardly hope to carry it up to your
House till Monday, the 2nd. As to the affairs of the South, my view
very closely concurs with yours.

I will make some inquiry about the office of Lord Chancellor of
Ireland before I again write; but I do not myself feel any alarm at
the exercise of visitatorial or any other power _in curia_ by a
Catholic, and think, indeed, it might more safely be lodged in his
hands than in those of an Unitarian or bigoted Presbyterian, who
might both now hold it.

Believe me, ever most truly yours,

C. WILLIAMS WYNN.

More than one communication printed in this volume has indicated that the Government were anxious to secure the services of the leading members of the Grenville party. It will be seen that the former became more and more conscious of the desirableness of such a junction.

THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

London, March 27, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD BUCKINGHAM,

I have received your letter; and you may rely upon it, that there
is no man more desirous than I am of strengthening the connexion
between your family and the Government. I think that the services
which you have, upon principle, rendered to them are of a nature to
give you every claim to their consideration; and I am very much
mistaken if this feeling is not common to all those at present
forming the Administration.

I shall be very happy in being instrumental in forwarding any wish
of yours; and I will so conduct myself as not to involve you in
anything.

Believe me, ever yours most sincerely,

WELLINGTON.

DR. PHILLIMORE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Doctors' Commons, March 29, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD,

I should have sent your Lordship yesterday the result of Tuesday's
debate, but that I was shut up all the morning with Sir John
Newport _and Co._, on the subject of the clauses relating to the
securities. You will perceive that several inaccuracies are
corrected; and amongst other amendments, I believe most of the
alterations you suggested have been introduced--all, at least, that
we considered, under existing circumstances, to be advisable.

We got through all the clauses last night, upon the whole, very
triumphantly; but Mr. Hutchinson opened a broadside upon us, which
in the earlier stages of the Bill might have sunk the whole
concern--inasmuch as he characterized the second Bill (now
consolidated with the first) as a Bill of pains, penalties,
degradation, &c., imposed on the Roman Catholic clergy. The attack,
however, recoiled upon the promoter of it, and the discussion was
so conducted as to assist the Bill. The debate is exceedingly ill
given in all the papers I have seen, more especially as it omits
the speeches of three Irish county members, who rose in succession,
and said they had every reason to believe the measure was very
agreeable to the Roman Catholics in the counties they
represented--Butler, the member for the county of Kilkenny (which,
I believe, is intensely Catholic), being one. None of the
Opposition ultras would attend last night.

The Report is to be brought up to-day, and the Bill to be read a
third time on Monday. They have abandoned all idea of opposing the
bringing up of the Report; but Croker, I understand, in spite of
all that can be said to deter him, persists in his intention of
moving that a provision shall be inserted in the Bill for the Roman
Catholic clergy. A great exertion is to be made against us for the
division on the third reading, but I think we shall succeed; we had
seven votes shut out on the clause relating to Parliament, which
was most unfortunate.

I am now going to meet Sir John Newport, at Lord Castlereagh's, to
consider of the propriety of some alterations which have been
suggested as expedient to be made on bringing up the Report. Lord
Castlereagh _now_ seems quite in earnest, and I think his having
this meeting at his house is a proof of it; he was very pressing
with me to attend it.

The Bill will be reprinted; and as soon as it is distributed I will
send a copy to Avington, where I shall presume you continue till I
hear to the contrary.

Believe me, my dear Lord,

Your Lordship's obliged and faithful,

JOSEPH PHILLIMORE.

THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

London, March 30, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD BUCKINGHAM,

Fremantle has just come in to me, and has informed me that you
understood that part of a late letter I had written to him,
referred to you. I assure you that you are quite mistaken. It could
not refer to you.

I think I have reason to believe that Lord W---- himself does not
believe in the truth of the charges he thinks proper to make
against me. I may be mistaken; but that is my opinion, and that was
the opinion which, as well as I recollect, I intended to convey,
and no other; and even this opinion I intended to convey in terms
as polite, guarded, and little offensive to anybody as possible.

Pray don't think that I could mean to refer to you in any manner.

And believe me, ever yours most sincerely,

WELLINGTON.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Stanhope Street, March 30, 1821.

You will see, by the enclosed, how totally you mistook the Duke's
meaning in the last paragraph of his letter to me of the 27th. He
was much surprised at it, and extremely distressed; and after
having conversed for some time on the subject, and desired me to
explain the matter to you, he ended in saying--"I think it would be
more satisfactory to Lord B---- that I should write him a note,
which I will do, and give to you to enclose to him." This he
accordingly did. With regard to the mode of referring it, he is to
see Lord C----, who will write to me, stating distinctly the
grounds and extent to which arbitration shall go. I need say no
more, therefore, on this subject, particularly as we shall meet so
soon, and probably before I hear from Lord C----.

A confirmation is arrived of the counter-revolution both at Naples
and Turin. At the former, the Prince Regent, the army, and the
people are united; they have dissolved the Parliament, pronounced a
declaration in favour of the old Constitution, and sent a
deputation with a submission to the King, and a supplication for
his resumption of his dominion. At Turin, Prince Carignan has put
himself at the head of some troops, has resigned the Regency, and
marched to join a corps which had been assembled in favour of the
King; and the cry at Turin and throughout Piedmont was for the
return of the King, and the resumption of the old order of things.
Thus ends, I hope, and as it is believed, the whole of these
revolutionary attempts, which might have embroiled all Europe.

The impression gains ground in favour of the Catholic question in
the House of Lords. I asked the Duke of W---- what he thought would
be the result; and he said, "We think it will be carried." I said
it would depend much on the King; he replied, "We hear he is for
it." I added, "Much also must depend on Lord Liverpool's conduct;
if he acts as an individual, it will have little effect, compared
to any canvass as a Minister." He answered, "The latter is
impossible; our Cabinet could not allow such a thing; his
influence, as a private [individual], considering his character,
situation, &c., must have great weight, but no further; perhaps
those who oppose it will not be heard, as in the House of Commons."
I give you nearly word for word as he said it; and I should judge,
from the tenor of his words and manner, that he really thinks it
would be carried. By-the-bye, he added, "I hear Lady Conyngham
supports it, which is a great thing."

I am hurried for time, so I wont add more. We have no fear for the
division on Monday; I will see you in the evening, in my way from
the House.

Ever truly yours,

W. H. F.

THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

London, March 30, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD BUCKINGHAM,

Since I wrote to you last, I have had some conversation with those
likely to carry into execution the object you have in view; and I
have found them exactly in the disposition in which I told you in
my last I expected to find them. Of course, in the existing state
of the measure in Parliament, and particularly as no design for
carrying it into execution can yet be in discussion, or in the
contemplation of more than a few, no decision can have been taken.
But I am certain that the disposition to which I have above
referred exists; and I think it might be desirable that you should
let me know whether you have any, and what, views for your family,
or any of the friends attached to you.

Believe me, ever yours most sincerely,

WELLINGTON.

MR. C. W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Saturday.

MY DEAR B----,

Lord Donoughmore, participating in his brother's objections, has
to-day declined the conduct of the Bill in the House of Lords, and
recommended that an attempt should be made to prevail upon Lord
Grenville to undertake to move the second reading. Anticipating
this, I had, by Castlereagh's desire, yesterday sounded Lord G----,
who, to my great satisfaction, said that, if applied to under these
circumstances, he did not think himself at liberty to refuse. It is
intended to fix the second reading for Tuesday se'nnight, the 10th.
You will see that the resolutions of the Dublin clergy are
extremely moderate, and I understand that their petition is still
more so. In Limerick, the clergy have come to violent resolutions,
and there has been an aggregate meeting to the same effect. There
is a strong protest against them, very numerously and respectably
signed by what Rice, the member for the city, describes to be the
principal Catholics there. Altogether, it is supposed that the tide
runs strongly in favour of the measure.

I have been looking over the lists of the House of Lords, by which
the majority against the Bill cannot be rated less than twelve; and
when one looks at the names of which it consists, I fear that it
displays such an array of bigotry and stupidity that one can
scarcely hope to make material impression upon it. The only hope is
that some of them may stay away. I trust that you will not now
delay coming up.

Ever affectionately yours,

C. W. W.

THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

London, April 2, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD BUCKINGHAM,

You are quite right respecting the subject of your taking office. I
have suggested from myself the propriety and expediency of making
you the offer of the Lord Lieutenancy in Ireland, in case the
Catholic Bill should pass; and that suggestion was well received.
It occurred to me that the arrangement, if occasion for it should
offer, might be facilitated by my knowing your wishes, or whether
you had any, respecting others, and for that reason I asked the
question.

It certainly referred only to the particular object in question, if
occasion should offer--that is, if the Catholic Bill should
pass--as you did not go farther with me. But if you feel disposed
to talk with me upon your situation, and that of your friends, in
relation to the Government in general, you will find me well
disposed to enter into the subject, and to do anything in which you
may think I can be of service to forward your views, in the same
mode as I have upon the object first mentioned. I shall be at the
office today till five o'clock, and to-morrow from two. I can go in
to you at any hour; and I think I had better go to you, as your
visit to me there might be observed.

Ever yours most sincerely,

WELLINGTON.

The Catholic Relief Bill was brought before the House of Lords on the 3rd of April, and a very animated debate on the question took place on the 17th, when the Duke of York made an emphatic declaration in opposition; and, although Lord Grenville delivered an able speech in its support, the motion was negatived on a second reading.

The division on the second reading of the Bill was 159 against, 120 for, showing a majority of 39. On the measure being lost, Lord Eldon, the most zealous of the anti-Catholics, thus writes:--"It was quite clear in Lord Grenville's speech that, professing that the Bill must be greatly amended in the Committee, he did most carefully abstain from pointing out one single enactment that could be left untouched, or one that he would introduce as one of his great amendments. He was very dexterous in avoiding saying that he would have no securities; but I think it is clear that is now his meaning. The Duke of York has done more to quiet this matter than everything else put together. It has had a great effect. I have nothing further to delay your drinking to the thirty-nine who saved the Thirty-nine Articles--a very fashionable toast."[62]

[62] "Life," by Twiss, vol. ii. p. 40.

"As to Liverpool," writes the Lord Chancellor, "I do not know what he means. To please Grenville, he makes a Regius Professor--friend to the Catholics. To please Lansdowne, he makes a Bishop of Bristol and Regius Professor--friend to the Catholics. He therefore, I dare say, will not stir a step beyond pronouncing in words his speech. I am not quite content with this, and yet I don't know what to do. But what he does or does not do, I think, should not regulate me."[63]

[63] "Life," by Twiss, vol. ii. p. 41.

The Court had recovered from the alarm the Queen had created. A magnificent banqueting-room had been finished at the Brighton Pavilion, 60 feet long by 42 wide, and had been furnished with imperial magnificence. This suggested anything but doubts of the Sovereign's undisturbed rule. At Windsor, the current of affairs went merrily as a marriage-bell, the Royal party enjoying "the contemplative man's recreation" on the Virginia Water with a zeal that would have gratified, if it did not edify, Izaak Walton; and now the Coronation was boldly talked of--indeed, preparations were making for the performance of this ceremony with the greatest possible splendour.

THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Strathfieldsaye. April 23, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD BUCKINGHAM,

I have received your note in answer to that which I wrote to you on
Wednesday; and I wish you would let me know whether you have any
objection to my stating that I know those are your feelings, if
there should be an opportunity.

I shall be at Winchester on Wednesday, for the meeting of the
Lieutenancy, but I am obliged to return here that night, as I have
some people here; otherwise, I should take that opportunity of
paying you a visit at Avington.

Believe me, ever yours most sincerely,

WELLINGTON.

I was last week at Woburn. I think the Opposition are much more
annoyed at having failed in pledging a number of persons by a vote
to go with a Committee on Reform, than they are at the loss of the
Roman Catholic Bill.

RIGHT HON. THOMAS GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Dropmore, May 15, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD B----,

I hear from London that the D---- of N---- has been so ill-advised
as to have offered to the Q---- the Marshal's box at the
Coronation, and that she has written to the K---- to know where and
in what dress she should appear at that ceremony. I presume the
answer will be, "In a white sheet, in the middle aisle of the
Abbey." Perhaps _two_ white sheets might be more appropriate, if
the report is founded of Bergami the Second, in the person of a
certain strapping Scotch Baxter, seven foot by six. If the K----
continues to drive Lord L---- to the wall on one side, and the
commoner Lord L---- urges him with a Catholic measure on the other,
I should not be surprised that he took that opportunity of
withdrawing himself from the turmoil, and of leaving _champ libre_
to the commoner Lord L----, who may feel more confidence than is
reasonable, that he should find himself strong enough to take the
whole Government upon his own shoulders--a speculation which,
however flattering to his ambition, seems hardly within his reach
to carry through, the general opinion being certainly much less
favourable to him than to the present First Lord. Perhaps, however,
the K---- is tired of his old Ministers, and is ready enough to
take to their opposers, provided he can do so with at least the
appearance of making it his own act, instead of his submitting to
undisguised compulsion; but if he puts away his present servants,
he places himself as unconditionally now at the discretion of
Opposition, as he would have been if he had surrendered to them at
the beginning of the session. Perhaps female influence may have
contributed to this new view as a new measure; and undoubtedly it
is a most marked demonstration, that the three _first_ subject
dinners after the accession should be found in the three leading
houses of Opposition. The probability, however, is that it is an
over-refinement to give consistency or premeditation to that which
may be only the unrestrained irritation of the moment.

Yours most affectionately,

T. G.

LORD GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Dropmore, May 16, 1821.

Certainly, your description of the discussion for and against the
proposed relief to the Catholics is not encouraging, any more than
the prospect which the papers seem to hold out of the rejection of
the Grampound Bill by the majority of the Cabinet, in contradiction
to Lord Liverpool's support. The King's demonstrations of renewed
intercourse with the great peers of opposition must also, in such a
moment, be a source of weakness, as well as of personal vexation.

In this state of things, I do not wonder that both parts of the
Government should be unwilling to stir this Catholic question again
in any shape; and I certainly see no such benefit likely to arise
from doing so in the mode of partial relief, as to induce the
friends of conciliation on a larger scale to embark in any such
proposal as this limited measure holds out.

If any other proof were wanted beyond what the general view of the
subject affords, to convince any reasonable man that this mode of
treating the most important of all our present public interests as
no Government question, is the worst instead of the best that could
be adopted, Lord Londonderry's[64] own situation in respect of this
subject at this moment would be decisive against it. He has, I am
persuaded, been restrained only by that pledge from taking the only
course which becomes him on the subject, and which, if he had
adopted it in consequence of the passing of the Bill in the House
of Commons, would have been decisive in its favour in its
subsequent stages. Having neglected to do this at that time, I
myself think that his doing it now would be a step of much more
doubtful result, and probably of much more dangerous consequences,
and therefore, if I were his adviser, which I am very glad I am
not, I do not see what I could suggest but now to leave the matter
as it is. Shall we see you on Monday? As to the direct reference
which Lord L----'s conversation seems to have had to yourself and
your own conduct, in respect to making yourself, personally and
officially, a party to this system of treating the greatest of all
questions in our domestic policy as no Cabinet measure, what I have
already said will sufficiently show you my opinion. It is a mode of
getting rid of a present difficulty, but at the risk and almost
certainty of the greatest possible embarrassments in future. And
this deserves the greater consideration, inasmuch as the events of
this session have again rendered this Roman Catholic question so
very prominent a feature of all that can be looked to for some time
to come.

[64] Lord Castlereagh's father having recently died, he had
succeeded to the title.

LORD GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Dropmore, Sunday Night.

I have just got your letter, and write these few lines to save the
post, though I have, in truth, in what I wrote to Charles this
morning, said all that occurs to me as material on the subject.

It is of great importance that you should not appear, either to
Plunket or to others, to stir a single step in the matter without
his previous approbation.

I most entirely agree in the utter impossibility of either yourself
or Wellesley, or any other supporter of the Catholic Bill, bringing
forward any such proposition as this, or even acquiescing in it,
except under an express and positive declaration that you do so
only as seeing in it an advance, _however small_, towards the final
and total accomplishment of that which can alone satisfy your own
duty and opinion on this subject.

How can Lord Londonderry or any of his colleagues think that any of
those who were turned out in 1807, precisely because they would not
pledge themselves to any truce or cessation of this question short
of its total and final accomplishment, would now lend themselves to
such a measure for the sake of obtaining for the Catholics benefits
so small that it is even doubtful (as I explained to Charles this
morning, according to my view of the subject,) whether they or
their opponents would gain most by thus varying the state of the
question?

I forget which bishop it was that was foolish enough to express his
hope that the present rejection of the Bill would finally set the
question at rest. But I well remember that I noticed this
nonsensical expectation in the course of what I said, and assured
him that it neither ought to have, _nor would have_, that effect.

And indeed if I, and half or all the supporters of the Bill, had
thought differently, and were inclined to lend ourselves to such a
pledge, how could any or all of us answer for the Catholics
themselves, or bind ourselves, if they stirred the question in
opposition to our pledges, that we would then vote against our
declared opinions?

All this, in my judgment, only shows that Lord Londonderry is, as
he may well be, most uneasy in his situation, as resulting from the
present strange and most anomalous state of this business, which he
ought to have foreseen, but did not, as at least a possible event,
when he agreed to form a Government in which the one most important
feature in the whole political interests of the country was not to
be considered as a ministerial question.

"You have what I advise;" but pray do not forget that, on this
subject above all others, Plunket is entitled, not to _know_, but
almost to _direct_ your course.

GRENVILLE.

The Queen put in a formal claim to be crowned with the King, and Mr. Brougham urged it, with all his forensic eloquence and skill, before the Privy Council; but, as will be seen, all the principal precedents were in opposition to his argument:--

"William the Conqueror's Queen was crowned two years after he was crowned.

Henry I.'s Queen, ditto.

Stephen's Queen, ditto.

Richard I.'s Queen, crowned abroad.

John's Queen, not crowned with him, but crowned.

Henry III.'s Queen, not with him, but afterwards, alone.

Edward III.'s Queen, crowned alone.

Henry IV.'s Queen, crowned--not with him.

Henry V.'s Queen, ditto.

Henry VI.'s Queen, not crowned with him, but alone.

Henry VII.'s Queen, crowned long after him.

Henry VIII.--Some of his Queens crowned, some not.

Charles I.--His Queen not crowned at all.

Charles II.--His Queen not crowned at all.

George II.'s Queen, or George I.'s, I am not sure which, not crowned at all."[65]

[65] Twiss's "Life of Lord Eldon," vol. ii. p. 43.

On the 21st of May a feeble attempt was made in the House of Commons to bring forward the pretensions of the Queen to share in the approaching State ceremonial; but the firm language of Lord Londonderry, and the apathy of the House on the subject, set the matter at rest.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Stanhope Street, June 4, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD,

The coronation is fixed (_decidedly so_) by the Government to take
place previous to his going to Ireland, and a fortnight after the
close of the Session: two days afterwards he starts for Ireland,
and embarks at Portsmouth; and on his return from Ireland, he goes
to Hanover. This is all arranged at present, and the Ministers have
agreed to it. With the exception of the coronation, all the rest
may be subject to change; but I am quite sure the coronation is
determined on. Prince Leopold was to have started for Germany on
Friday, to see his mother; but has put it off, in consequence of
this decision, as he could not be back in time.

Canning leaves Paris this day for London. Parliament--that is, the
House of Commons--is expected to be up on the 25th; and I think it
may. There is no other news.

Ever yours truly,

W. H. F.

There are to be two Parliamentary Commissioners--Frankland Lewis
and Wallace--for this Irish examination, and three other
Commissioners; salary, L1500 (to Parliamentary Commissioners) per
annum. I don't think it would be a bad appointment (one of the
others) for Tom Fremantle, if I could have a chance of getting it.
I suppose their salary is much less.

RIGHT HON. THOMAS GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Cleveland Square, June 5, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD B----,

It is evident that something has for the moment interfered to
prevent the immediate announcement of Lord Sidmouth's resignation,
which on Saturday and Sunday was reported upon the best authority.
Lord G---- told me that Lord S---- was suddenly sent for by the
King on Saturday, and it seems probable that it was to tell him to
delay his resignation; indeed, as the Session will end with this
month, that period would be the natural one for change.

Lady Liverpool was yesterday reported to be dead, but she still
lives, though she is considered as being at death's door; and I
believe the Ministers are much alarmed, from their doubting
whether, in that case, Lord L---- will not retire altogether.

The coronation is now again afloat, and is expected to take place
before the journey to Ireland. The Court of Claims is resumed; and
having a ticket to-day to see the preparations in the Hall and the
Abbey, I am convinced from what I saw that they are now in earnest,
and that there is nothing which may not be quite completed in six
weeks, except the tower at the Great Gate of Westminster Hall. The
Hall is beautiful and magnificent; but in the Abbey, the appearance
of the great aisle is much hurt by the projecting galleries on each
side for the spectators.

Yours affectionately,

T. G.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Stanhope Street, June 10, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD,

I only returned to town this morning, having gone on Sunday. I am
very glad you were so satisfied with my last, but think you rather
went beyond my meaning in your construction of its contents;
however, I saw the Duke of Wellington this moment, and put your
letter into his hands, which he read with great attention. We were
on horseback, and many persons passing in the Park, and therefore
he had little means of conversing upon it; however, his observation
to me was--"I am glad he is satisfied with my explanation; I am
quite sure he may depend on what I said. You have heard, no doubt,
of the event of this morning" (meaning Lady Liverpool's death,
which took place at six o'clock), "this for the moment, of course,
stops all proceedings. Does Lord Buckingham remain in the country?
I am glad he does; he would be more fidgetty here, with all the
reports, but a few days probably will give him information." By
this you will perceive, for I really think I have quoted every word
he said (as we were interrupted by Mr. Singleton's presence), that
the communication is beyond doubt intended, and I shall think it
your own fault if you let the opportunity slip.

Without meaning in any manner to embarrass any views which you may
have, I think it fair to state my wish, which is to be placed at
any one of the Boards of Treasury, Admiralty, or India. It was the
situation which I was to have when Lord Grenville was to come in,
and I should hope both my pretension of former office and my
talents would entitle me to it, but be assured I mean not to
interfere with your arrangements in any way.

I send you a list which is made out at White's of the new Peers,
and which is said to be correct; it is expected out immediately.

Irish: Roden, Kingston, Conyngham, Longford, and Ormond.

Scotch: Wemys and Lothian.

English: Lord George Murray, Sir W. Scott, Pole, Cholmondeley,
Forester, Sir T. Liddle, and Sir T. Heathcote.

I have nothing further to say at present. You shall hear to-morrow
if anything occurs. I had a letter from Cecil Jenkinson announcing
her death, and saying Lord Liverpool was as well as could be
expected. The Duke of Wellington told me they were urging the King
to go to Ireland by Holyhead, but as yet he persists in going by
long sea.

Ever most truly yours,

W. H. FREMANTLE.

The negotiation with the Grenvilles was again resumed; a full report of which is here given, including some curious revelations of Court and Ministerial life.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Stanhope Street, June 11, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD,

I am perfectly aware of the difficulties you have in managing the
_half-Whig_ principles and the _negative qualities_ which are
acting against you on the subject of negotiations and connexion
with the Government; and it was because I felt this, and knew the
delicacy of the transaction, and because I had incurred so much
blame from Lord G---- and others in former negotiations, that I
acted as I did. The moment I got your first letter I determined to
act upon it, _without consulting any one_. It was your wish that I
should communicate with the Duke of Wellington (personally); I
concurred in that opinion, and I therefore instantly went to him.
_After_ I had so communicated with him, and had written the account
of it to you, I sought Charles Williams [Wynn], to inform him of
what I had done, and showed him the correspondence. I had a long
conversation with him, and maintained those opinions and the views
which you have suggested in your letter of this morning. Although
he deprecated the overture to the Duke of Wellington, yet I am
quite persuaded he is delighted at the prospect it has opened to
his views. I know not whether he may or may not have opened the
subject to his uncles, but it is impossible they can condemn a
proceeding which was called for by the general and increasing
rumours of the town; but even if they are so disposed, it is
necessary for every man to judge for himself. They might think it
right to remain quiet; you, on the contrary, think it right to
communicate your views and opinions confidentially to the Duke of
Wellington, with whom you had before conversed on the subject. I
have always told you, and I repeat it, that Charles Williams,
though most able and admirable as your chief in the House of
Commons, is too full of difficulty and _splitting of hairs_. My
opinion is, decidedly, that you should, under all the difficulties
of the present moment, and with the retirement of your uncles, get
into official station, and thereby official strength and power; and
when once that is done, your influence, your necessity _to any
future Government_, will be tenfold what it now is; but if you are
now to hold off, and to be fighting for general objects, and for
balance of Cabinet strength, and for questions and individuals, I
have no hesitation in saying that I think you will do wrong. These
will be the points, I perfectly well know, that will be uppermost
in the mind of your uncles and Charles Williams; but it is for you
to act for yourself, which I think you can manage without
quarrelling with them. With all these impressions on my mind, and
recurring to the blame I incurred for communicating with Harrison
on a former occasion, I felt it impossible for me not to mention
the transaction to Charles Williams, _after I had executed your
wishes_; but I can assure [you] there is no other individual on
earth to whom I have opened my lips on the subject; and you must be
aware that, whether this conversation had been made known or not,
you must have mentioned the subject to your uncles and Charles Wynn
whenever the Government had sent to you, and on your arrival in
town. I feel exceedingly sorry you should have thought that I
wanted discretion by so doing; but, devoted as I am at all times to
you, the case was one in which I felt obliged to take the step I
did.

I shall not communicate your letter of to-day to him; but shall
continue to urge the same language you hold, and which, I assure
you, I have already done to him; and I would recommend you to leave
it now where it stands. Again I can't help expressing my opinion of
the propriety of your conduct, and the necessity there was of
coming to a full and distinct understanding as to your footing with
the Government.

I cannot yet give a good guess as to Lord Liverpool's conduct. If I
were to give my opinion, it is that he will remain in office; but
if Lord Londonderry thinks his situation, and power, and influence
must be strengthened (which seemed to be the opinion of the Duke of
Wellington), he may be better pleased with an arrangement which
would give him the Treasury and Chancellorship of the Exchequer,
and thereby he would possess the patronage and the authority over
the Secretaries of the Treasury. It certainly is now a drawback to
his Parliamentary means; at the same time, I own I cannot see
strength in the retirement of Lord Liverpool. He has more footing
and support in the country than any one of the Ministers; and even
his promise of support would be a very different thing. Who is
there to conduct the House of Lords?

Lady Conyngham is certainly moving to introduce the Opposition. I
was told last night (but I can't positively vouch for the fact)
that Lord and Lady Grey and children are invited to the Carlton
House ball this evening; if so, nothing can more strongly mark her
influence; for you must remember the language the King held to me,
not six months ago, about Lord Grey individually. There was no
opprobrious or harsh epithet he did not use. He dines with the Duke
of Devonshire to-morrow, and has a limited party to meet him in the
evening--a ball. I have not heard who are the invitations--but of
course Diplomacy and Opposition. The King has left out many of the
Ministers' ladies and his old friends to-night--such as the Duchess
of Rutland, Lady Bathurst; the only Minister's wife, Lady Melville,
asked.

I will keep this open, in case I have anything further to tell you.
Adieu!

Ever sincerely yours,

W. H. F.

House of Commons, Six o'clock.

I have little more to say, excepting that Lord Londonderry is
unwell, and no particular business will come on this evening. _Lord
and Lady_ Grey are certainly invited to Carlton House to-night, and
Tierney to the evening to-morrow, to meet the King at the Duke of
Devonshire's. The strongest rumours are afloat, and increase with
regard to _his leaning_ towards the Opposition; and certainly these
invitations do not discourage them. What he can mean seems
difficult to unravel.

MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.

Stanhope Street, June 16, 1821.

MY DEAR LORD,

I feel that I acted wrong in showing your letter marked
"Confidential" to Charles Williams, and am sorry I did so,
particularly as it has given you pain, but a variety of reasons
prompted me at the time; the subject was so important, and the
nature of the commission so delicate, that I did not sufficiently
consider how it might embarrass you. I am quite aware of the many
difficulties you have to contend with, and this made me feel (from
past experience) the danger of moving without explanation; however,
I can only say I am sorry I showed your letter, and it will be a
lesson to me in future to act with more caution.

The state of things is most critical and curious. Everybody now
acknowledges, and seems to admit, that changes must take place and
are pending, but what with the King's flirtation with the
Opposition, the strange absence and conduct of Canning at the House
of Commons, the illness of Londonderry, and the death of Lady
Liverpool, it is all loose and wild conjecture; my version is
this--I have no hesitation in saying, from what I gather, that Lord
Liverpool will not resign (the King has written him a most kind and
considerate letter); that the King only plays a game with the
Opposition from vexation and anger about Mr. Sumner's appointment,
and a wish at the same time of keeping down a party for the Queen,
but that he has no idea of changing his Government. That as soon as
Lady Liverpool is buried and the Session is closed, a communication
will be made to you, and that the Government will be strengthened
by your accession. How and in what manner this will be arranged, in
accordance with your feelings and views, I cannot pretend to say;
but whenever that proposition is made, if you are afterwards to
waive the accedence to a junction till you are enabled to satisfy
the theories and calculations of your uncles, I am quite sure you
might as well remain at Stowe. I have no hesitation in saying to
you, that I think you would do well to make a _sine qua non_ of
Charles Williams being of the Cabinet; but if beyond this he is to
have all his difficulties of who shall fill the different offices,
and how more or less the Government could be better classed, and if
these difficulties are again to be weighed and reasoned on by your
uncles, who sit in their libraries and fancy things and men are as
they were twenty years ago, and forget we are under a new reign,
_and such a reign_; and if above all, they fancy the Government is
reduced to the state of giving you _carte blanche_, and that they
cannot go on without your party, I am quite convinced they would
not treat on these terms, and that _they are_ prepared to go on, if
they find such to be your feelings and line of conduct; I tell you
this as _my own opinion_, and which I think I am bound to give you,
knowing the situation in which you stand, and weighing well all
these difficulties you have to contend against, and as they affect
what I know to be the prevailing object of your mind to conciliate
the junction.

The Opposition are whispering and cajoling about the King's conduct
towards them, and I see are endeavouring to separate the Whigs from
the Mountain; but they will be unable to do this while the Duke of
Bedford, Lord Grey, Lord Lansdowne, &c. are at Carlton House, and
Lords Tavistock, Fitzwilliam, Milton, Jersey, &c., are with the
Queen on the same evening.

Lady Conyngham is the great link upon which this hangs, and the
Opposition ladies are courting her to a degree and with success.
The King goes to-day (if he is well enough) to the Cottage, for the
Ascot week, and is to have his party, Lady C----, &c.