Chapter L: P. LANE: I move that the program committee be requested to assign a

time before the end of the conference when there may be a continued meeting of this section; and if such a time be found, that when we adjourn we adjourn to that time. _Voted._

CHAIRMAN: Let me announce again that at the close of this session the secretary, Miss Van Valkenburgh, will be ready to begin the registry of persons who express themselves as willing to become members of this section.

Mr. ANDREWS: I would call attention to the fact that under the by-laws, if the section wants to, it can adopt rules restricting membership; if it doesn't adopt rules any member of the Association may be a member of this section. It is a question whether we wish to confine this section to catalogers.

CHAIRMAN: It is an important point or might easily become an important point. For the ordinary run of affairs it would be a matter of no consequence, but it may be that this section will sometime wish to promulgate some proposition and a little logrolling might vote it down. What does the section wish to do in this matter?

Mr. WINDSOR: I think we can safely leave it open to all who are interested in the subject of cataloging. I don't see that there is anything gained by leaving out anybody who is interested in the work.

Mr. JOSEPHSON: I move that a vote on this question be postponed. _Voted._

Mr. HANSON: In the points that were outlined last year for discussion at this meeting there were a great many details; we have not reached a fifth of them. May I ask catalogers to get copies of the rules recommended by the Committee on Rules and look them over and communicate with any one of the members of the committee--Mr. Hopkins, Miss Kroeger, Miss Brown or myself. It would be of the greatest assistance to us.

[Miss Kroeger objected to giving out copies of the rules, because they were incomplete.]

CHAIRMAN: I think we have no right to make a general distribution yet, to do so would perhaps exceed the province of the committee; but we might lend copies to those who want to look them over.

I will now call for the report of the _Committee on Nominations_.

[The committee reported the names of Mr. Hanson, of the Library of Congress, for chairman, and Miss Mary E. Hawley, Chicago Public Library, for secretary.]

Mr. HANSON: I am the chairman of the advisory committee and we have a great deal of hard work before us. I would ask the section to accept my resignation. I really do not feel I can give the time necessary to make this section a success at the next meeting.

CHAIRMAN: There are no rules governing us, Mr. Hanson, but I beg that you do not insist on this, or if you feel you must resign that you do so between now and the next session.

The names submitted were unanimously elected, and adjournment was taken subject to call of chair.

_SECOND SESSION._

The second session of the Catalog Section was called to order on Wednesday, July 10, ANDERSON H. HOPKINS presiding.

CHAIRMAN: The matters that were of first importance to be brought before the section were discussed yesterday. At the same time there are other things that I am sure would be interesting; and perhaps you would prefer to bring up your own topics, and each present something you would like to talk about.

Miss WAGNER: Is the Y. M. C. A. question proper for discussion?

CHAIRMAN: I believe that question was received; please read it, Mr. Hanson.

Mr. HANSON (reading): Young Men's Christian Associations, mercantile library associations and the like are to be entered under place. That is 1 i 21 of the rules suggested.

Miss WAGNER: It is our practice to put the Y. M. C. A. under Y. M. C. A.; Y. M. C. A., Boston; Y. M. C. A., New York; instead of putting it under place. There is a separate association which has a distinctive being and the local associations are branches. It seems this is much more logical, and where the public would expect to find reports of the Y. M. C. A.

Mr. HANSON: I wish to state in support of Miss Wagner's contention that Mr. Cutter in his new edition, which is now in manuscript, was rather in favor of changing his rule, which reads as this one does. He has always advised entering under the place; but he was now inclined to enter under Young Men's Christian Association, not only for the general association of the United States, but for the associations of the various states. A majority of the committee, however, seemed inclined to enter the local Y. M. C. A. under the place, on the ground that 99 per cent. would look for Chicago Y. M. C. A. under Chicago, Philadelphia Y. M. C. A. under Philadelphia, rather than under Y. M. C. A.; and that the same was true of the mercantile library associations.

Miss CRAWFORD: Was any argument brought forth to substantiate that statement that nine-tenths of the people would look under the local name?

Mr. HANSON: No contention, except that it seemed to be the general experience.

Miss CRAWFORD: It seems to me if the committee would correspond with public libraries there might be some change of opinion on the matter.

Miss WAGNER: I find that Chicago enters Y. M. C. A. under Y. M. C. A., as the St. Louis Public Library does.

Miss CRAWFORD: The logical thing has always seemed the fair thing in this matter--to ask one's self the question, Has the organization a national existence? And if so, to enter it under the generic name. The Y. M. C. A. has a national existence, which is more important as a governing body than any one of the local associations. And the same is true of other organizations. If they have no national organization, then I enter them under the local name; but if there is a national association, then I enter under the generic name.

Miss AMBROSE: Would you follow the same reasoning for entries under Methodist Episcopal church, or would you put them under the place? It seems to me the same reasoning would apply.

Miss CRAWFORD: I shouldn't wish this logical process to supersede the better rule of entering under the best known form. And I think in the case Miss Ambrose mentions the best known form would be the locality.

Mr. HANSON: Miss Wagner's question has launched us into the center of the most difficult problem of all--that is, corporate entry, entry of societies and institutions. There is an underlying principle which governs our distinctions, I believe. There is a distinction to be made between societies, and to some extent institutions; societies, including royal academies, which are societies, to be entered under the first word not an article; on the other hand, institutions, galleries, museums, libraries, etc., which generally have buildings and are affiliated closely with the place, to be entered under place, unless they have other distinctive names--that is to say, names from persons or geographical locations. That principle would to some extent affect the Young Men's Christian Associations and mercantile libraries.

Miss CRAWFORD: Would that override the other rule of entering under the best known form? Would the institution entry override the principle of entering under best known form?

Mr. HANSON: That rule we have not formulated. We have not considered as broad a rule as that--entry under best known form. We have tried to lay down some rule that should govern entry under place and entry under name; and what we are really trying to get at is best known form.

Miss CRAWFORD: I appreciate that, and there ought to be some ground on which to make exceptions. I think your distinction between institutions and societies is a good one. Is not the Y. M. C. A. a good case to make an exception?

Mr. HANSON: Yes, that is the 21st exception, is it not, under the rule? The general rule is, "Enter societies under the first word not an article or serial number, of its corporate name." Then there are 22 exceptions, and we began with the 21st.