Chapter III: Science for Children (1)

(_See_ p. 69.)

The general subject was opened for discussion by F. M. CRUNDEN, who said that he thought it was unwise to make a distinction between the reading of boys and girls, as it tended to differentiate the sexes.

He also believed in the reading and rereading of the classics and standard literature to children as a means of checking the craving for new books which is a characteristic evil of the American adult. The best means of judging the quality of a new book was to set it in comparison with an old one that had stood the test of time, so that familiarity with, and an ample supply of, the best literature was one of the most effective ways of raising the standard of taste as regards current books. He also said that the well-brought-up child will usually choose the best himself, though wise direction is necessary, for the books he reads influence his whole life. Reading aloud to children is of great value in bringing them to love books, and too strict a grading of books by age suitability is inadvisable, as many very young children enjoy books that at first thought seem beyond them. The boy who reads the best books will not choose the worst companions.

The program of the meeting was shortened, owing to arrangements of the local entertainment committee, so that the conclusion of the discussion on this subject was carried over to the next session. Before adjournment a nominating committee was appointed, made up of Miss Linda A. Eastman, Miss Edna Lyman and Mrs. Menzies.

_SECOND SESSION._

The second session of the section was held on the afternoon of Saturday, July 6. The meeting was called to order at 2.30, when discussion was resumed of the subject

THE BOOKS THEMSELVES.

Miss W. W. PLUMMER said:

I should much like to see tried Miss Sargent's plan for the story-hour, _i. e._, the argument of the story being given first in the attendant's own words, followed by a reading from some good version of the original, with judicious skipping. If this has been tried anywhere, we should be glad to know of it. We have given as a problem to our class of children's librarians the selection of one or two books of Homer, of the Odyssey preferably, to cut and edit for reading by or to children, and have always found that what was left made an exceedingly interesting story, that it seemed might be read just as it was. But, of course, such an exercise would require an unusually good and very intelligent reader to be a success.

_Fairy tales._

Belief, on the part of the author, at least while writing, is necessary if one would preserve the true atmosphere of the fairy story and communicate the right enjoyment to the child-readers. The fairy book in which the author tries to be "smart" and is continually thrusting in his own personality, is a failure. He must forget himself, leave the present century, and for the time be as credulous as the child himself.

_Fiction._

The vulgarization of the child is one of the dangers we must avoid. What if the boy's father does read the _New York Journal_ and the girl's mother, when she reads anything, Laura Jean Libbey? It is our business, as librarians for children, to see that by the time the child reaches the same age he shall like something different and better. And how can this be brought about if we let him steep himself in the smart, sensational, vulgar and up-to-date children's books that naturally lead to just such tastes in the adult?

We must also guard against false reasoning. Some authors whom we have probably never questioned will have to go, if thus examined. I am thinking, for instance, of a writer for girls who has been generally accepted. I examined her last book, the story of a little girl and her grandmother, apparently plain people, who moved into a summer village alongside of a family of fashionable city people. The question with the children of the fashionable family and their friends was whether they should or should not make a friend of the new girl--she was nice, but evidently not rich, not fashionable, not one of their kind. The counsel of the minority prevailed, and the children, boys and girls of 15 or 16, kindly admitted her to their circle, though not considering her their equal. How they held their breath at thought of their nearness to a great mistake when they found she belonged to a fine old family of another city, and had great expectations from the quiet grandmother! "See how it paid to be polite!" is the tacit morality of the book, which is full of the spirit of snobbery while professing to teach the opposite. It behooves us, therefore, to dip into books before purchasing or recommending. Nothing will take the place of knowing the books we handle and having our own opinion of them.

A thing we have to look out for is the intentional or unintentional imitation of the names of well-received writers, _e.g._, the Marie Louise Pool, author of "Chums," to whom Miss Taylor refers, is not the Miss Pool who wrote "Roweny in Boston" and "Mrs. Keats Bradford," that author having died two or three years ago. The person who uses the same name, rightfully or wrongfully, writes very different and very inferior books.

At the information desk we have made lists for various classes and types of person--but very often have had to lay these aside and make a special selection for the individual, after talking with him or her. This is as true for children as for adults--the books that appeal to one person do not appeal to another of seemingly the same type. Until the proper relation be established between the child and the librarian, he cannot be influenced very much in his choice of books. Sometimes this relation may be established in five minutes, sometimes in a week, a month, or a year; sometimes it seems impossible to do it, and some other personal influence must be waited for.

People sometimes say that the children's own tastes in reading should be our guide. This is true thus far: that if a child is reading books that do not seem good for him in our judgment, we should find out what it is _in_ these books that appeals to him; then look for the same thing in books that are better written and lack the objectionable features, and both librarian and child are satisfied. Children learn a great deal by absorption, and if the children's librarian can give them the sort of plot or incident they want and, at the same time, a book from which they may absorb good English instead of bad, high ideals and a high code of behavior instead of low ones, she has accomplished a great part of her task.

_Science._

With regard to nature books for children, I am glad that Miss Holmes has spoken frankly and pointed out to us the dangers we incur in rushing into the purchase of a new kind of book without investigation. The taking up of nature study and the study of art in the public schools has meant a great pressure upon libraries for books which teachers and pupils have heard of, but of the merits of which many of them as well as ourselves are unable to judge. In order to have books enough to meet the demand, our temptation is to buy entire series, every book we hear of in these lines, whereas our best plan would be to get them for inspection only, invite the inspection and criticism of some scientific person, or some one conversant with art and its literature, and reject what they condemn, putting in duplicates enough of the approved books to meet the large demand. A thing we need to beware of is the stampede--the wild rush to or away from a thing without reasoning, without stopping to think, just because other libraries we know of are engaging in it. The librarian needs at such times to keep cool, brace himself or herself against the rush, and when the dust of the crowd is over think things out and go ahead. And in these lines where special knowledge is necessary do not let us think ourselves infallible or even altogether competent; let us be humble enough to take advice and information from those who have a real claim to know.

J. C. DANA said:

The papers we have heard read tell us that we can put no dependence on book reviews; that the librarian must depend on herself. How can she do it? There are no laws or rules or principles of book selection. Even if there were, no librarian has time to read even hastily all the books for children.

If she wishes to evaluate them in the light of any possible principles she may have laid down, she finds the principles themselves very shaky. Experience is our only guide. A friend of mine much interested in psychology, and especially in the psychology of young people, and especially, again, in the influence on young people of the books read during the years 12 to 16, tells me that as a result of considerable study of nickel-libraries and news-stand story papers of what we call a poor kind, he thinks this literature is generally harmless; is perhaps even helpful; is well above the intelligence of most of those who read it; and is largely written by men and women who seriously wish to help to bring light and joy into the world. If our general opinion about these nickel-libraries is to be given a shock such as that, what may we not expect as to other classes of books, of our judgment on which at present we are quite as sure? It is distressing, the amount of work that is being done in this country nowadays even by the librarians themselves in their attempt, each by herself alone, to come to sound conclusions in regard to the value of books for children. We don't care to read these books. We read them when we are weary, we read too many of them. Our own taste, if originally good, gets perverted; our point of view gets prejudiced; and our opinions are of very little value when formed. Why not try co-operation? I suggest that you appoint a committee to formulate some scheme for securing the beginning of an evaluated list of children's books; and that this committee see that at least a portion of the scheme, enough to show us another year how it can be successfully carried on, be completed before our next annual meeting. I would suggest, for example, that this committee, in the first place, collect from members of the Association sufficient money in voluntary subscriptions to pay for postage, clerical work and printing, in beginning the evaluated list; that they then appoint some person to set in motion the machinery necessary for getting together a set of evaluations. She would perhaps begin by selecting almost at random 500 story books for young people of the ages 10 to 14. This list she would submit, in whole or in small sections, to as many active librarians who are interested in children's literature, as she could get into communication with. Having secured from them opinions, she would tabulate the results of the reading of each book and compile from these opinions a brief note. She would, perhaps, submit to us at the end of the year a brief list, in type, with or without annotations, of story books for children that are not good, another brief list of story books for children that are good. Without going further into detail I think you will see that in some such way as this, we can make the reading we now do along these lines permanently helpful to one another. We can perhaps in two or three years produce a foundation list of books for young people on which we can depend; we can then continue the evaluating process for other books as they appear from year to year.

H. C. WELLMAN directed attention to the economy which would result from a printed list of juvenile books to be prepared and issued by the Section of Children's Librarians and used as a catalog of the juvenile collections in public libraries. Such a list should not only embody the joint opinion of the best authorities, but should effect a saving of 90 per cent. in the work of preparing and the cost of printing separate lists for each library. The joint lists, containing 500 or more titles, could be set up with slugs, and revised and brought down to date in frequent editions. Some simple notation could be adopted, and the juvenile books in each library numbered to correspond. Then the list could be purchased in quantities by the libraries and sold to their borrowers at a cent apiece. The result would place within the reach of even small libraries a juvenile list at an exceedingly low price, always up-to-date, and of a quality and authority which should make it superior to any similar lists ever issued.

A motion was made by Mr. PERRY that a committee of three be appointed to take action on Mr. Dana's suggestion. The motion was carried and a special committee consisting of Mr. Dana, Mr. Perry and Miss Browning was appointed by the chair to act upon the suggestion at some general meeting of the Association.[H]

In the absence of Miss H. H. STANLEY Mr. WELLMAN read Miss Stanley's paper on

REFERENCE WORK FOR CHILDREN.

(_See_ p. 74.)

Mr. WELLMAN then discussed the question of whether the bulk of reference work with children should be carried on in the schools or at the library, and urged the claims of the library. The ultimate aim of reference work with children is to teach them to use the library during school life and after for purposes of study and self-education. To accomplish this end no person is so competent as the librarian and no place so appropriate as the library.

Miss LINDA A. EASTMAN said:

Miss Stanley's excellent report appears to furnish just the sort of basis for a discussion of one of the most vital questions in relation to the work with children, such a discussion as may lead to a much-needed definition of principles in regard to this side of the work.

A word or two about special topics mentioned--under library facilities. In addition to the books for reference mentioned by Miss Stanley, there is one which may not yet have come to the attention of all children's librarians because it is but just published--the new "Index to _St. Nicholas_," published with the consent of the Century Company by the Cumulative Index Co. It has its imperfections, but it certainly should prove a useful reference tool for every children's librarian, and the best simple stepping-stone yet furnished to the use of Poole and the other indexes.

Now, for the general subject, Miss Stanley says, "I think we are agreed that for the children our aim reaches to a familiarity with reference tools, to knowing how to hunt down a subject, to being able to use to best advantage the material found. In a word, we are concerned not so much to supply information as to educate in the use of the library."

The aim is well stated, and we are agreed in it, I believe, but are we agreed as to, and have we given sufficient thought to, the methods by which this desirable aim is to be accomplished? Where, in that ideal ultimate of co-operation between schools and libraries toward which we are striving, will the necessary instruction be given, in the schools or in the library? Or, if in both, where will the division of labor be placed? I, myself, am inclined to think that the formal, systematic instruction in the use of books should be given in the schools, with sympathetic, systematic help on the part of the library. Is it not possible that we, as librarians, seeing the need, are over-anxious to do the whole work, or at least feel sometimes that we can do the whole work more easily and better than we can get the overworked teachers to do it--though a large part of the work really belongs to them.

More than in any other work with the children, this reference work requires that we go back of the children and begin with the teachers--no, not with the teachers, but with the teachers in embryo--the students in the normal schools.

Miss ALICE TYLER, who followed, said that it was of the greatest importance to teach children the use of the catalog, which should be made to suit the mental capacity of children, using terms with which they are familiar.

In Cleveland the children's catalog was made upon these lines, using simple subject headings based on headings used by Miss Prentice in her "Third grade list" and the Pratt Institute lists.

Teaching children in the children's room how to use the catalog is the only way to make the future men and women more independent readers in the public library.

Mr. HENSEL closed the discussion with a short account of the reference work done in the Columbus public schools.

A paper by Miss CLARA W. HUNT was read on

OPENING A CHILDREN'S ROOM.
(_See_ p. 83.)

The discussion was opened by HENRY J. CARR, who said:

I cannot say why I was selected to discuss Miss Hunt's paper, unless because I was known to her and somewhat familiar with her work and the particular children's room fitted up under her direction in the new building of the Newark Free Public Library.

I am so much in sympathy with Miss Hunt's views as expressed in the paper, and regard them as so correct that I can do little but emphasize the points she has brought out. She has been eminently wise in presenting for consideration some of the proper guiding principles of the children's room, something that is too often lost sight of in the attitude taken by those responsible for their establishment and operation.

We should not look upon the children's room as a "kindergarten," or playground for the younger children, so much as a stepping-stone to tide them along to the reading of books adapted to more mature minds, and hence to "graduate" them out of it as fast as possible. It has also a purpose, which is a further reason for retaining in this room, more or less, an aspect similar to that of the adults' rooms. Parents to some extent come to select reading matter for their children, and those of mature years but immature minds may drift into this department, if it is not made too juvenile in tone and appearance. Hence, I prefer the name Young People's Library to that of Children's Room. I have seen boys stand aloof at first for fear of ridicule for going into the room "for kids." I prefer to have the discharging of books done at one main desk, as it keeps the children in touch with adults and gives all ages more freedom in drawing from all departments. Hence we have no special juvenile cards. I should advise to include on the children's shelves good books for older readers; to avoid sets or the writings of voluminous authors, as a rule; and to aim to seek the writers of those good books that are apt to be overlooked. Discipline and good order should be maintained at the outset, and after that the children should be let alone, so far as possible. They like to have a chance to inform one another; those becoming first familiar with the room and its methods will only too gladly induct newcomers into its operation.

Mrs. M. A. SANDERS said:

The librarian from Newark speaks from experience, for hers is an ideal children's room, both in equipment and administration. At the dedication of the library the interest centered largely around that department. Her interest in the children and their work, so ably expressed, carried me back to the early 80's, when, as some of us remember, scarcely a round dozen libraries could be found where children were admitted. On one side of the door we saw a placard reading, "Children not admitted under 14 years"; on the other, "Dogs not allowed." A strong appeal was made at that time at the Thousand Island meeting for children's rights in the public library by a librarian who was making a specialty of work with children, and admitted them without an age limit. Glorious has been the response, for the library that makes no provision for the children to-day is the exception.

At Pawtucket we open our children's rooms and bid them welcome, we open our shelves, and their judgment in the selection of books often equals our own. We decorate the walls with pictures that appeal to the affections, we send them into the homes, and by and by we see an entire family gathered around the table deeply interested in the pictures and the description of them as they read from the books brought home by the children. We put in our cases of birds, which the children delight to study, and soon a mother says to us, "I never thought much about the birds till the children began to talk about them, but we have been out every morning listening for the new calls as the birds appear in the spring." In these and various other ways we see the influence of the children's room, which is broadening every day.

There is, however, many a library where the children's room has not yet materialized, either from lack of space or funds, that is exerting a powerful influence through its children, and I question sometimes whether it may not be a mistake to draw too sharp a line of separation. Where should we draw our line? At just what age do girls and boys cease to be children? That has been for me a serious question; I wonder if you have escaped it, and if the children's room solves it.

I am in hearty sympathy with the opinion expressed that "the management and spirit of the children's room should correspond to that of other departments of the library." There seems to be a tendency to make these rooms a play-room--the children coming to be amused, and the time of one person devoted to their amusement. If this is the design of the children's room, our own young people at Pawtucket will be sadly disappointed. While we will put in the pictures, the birds, the plants, the busts and all else to make the room interesting, and while we will have frequent talks in the lecture room, the children being quietly led on to express themselves freely, the quiet dignity of the children's library room as an important part of the library will be maintained. The books will also be charged at the main charging desk for them, as we feel that this bringing of the adult and the child into close contact is of mutual benefit.

The discipline of the children's department has never been a serious question to us. Give them a very few brief rules, and enforce them, and we shall have no great troubles to contend with; the children will virtually take care of themselves.

The question is asked us, "For what does the children's room stand, what is its real purpose?" It is evident that it has a different purpose in different libraries. To us the children's library room is for reading, for study, for observation, for questioning undisturbed and undisturbing, while the entire library is still at the service of any child who desires to make practical use of it.

Miss CHARLOTTE WALLACE read a paper on

BULLETIN WORK FOR CHILDREN.
(_See_ p. 72.)

Two papers were read on

VITALIZING THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE SCHOOL AND THE LIBRARY,

Miss MAY L. PRENTICE treating

THE SCHOOL.
(_See_ p. 78.)

Miss IRENE WARREN presenting the side of

THE LIBRARY.
(_See_ p. 81.)

Owing to the lateness of the hour discussion of the last topics had to be passed over.

The chairman then called for the

REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON NOMINATIONS.

The committee on nominations wishes to submit the following names: For president, Miss Annie Carroll Moore; for secretary, Miss Mary E. Dousman.

In suggesting the continuance of the present officers the committee does not wish to establish a precedent, but there seems to be special fitness and justice in asking Miss Moore and Miss Dousman to serve the section for another year. To their earnest effort this section of children's librarians is largely due; these well-balanced programs are a result of their careful planning. The section can hardly be put in safer hands for its second year.

The officers named in the committee report were unanimously elected.

FOOTNOTES:

[Footnote G: This report is from notes furnished by Miss Mary E. Dousman, secretary of the section.]

[Footnote H: For report of this committee and action of Association _see_ Proceedings, p. 130.]

STATE LIBRARY COMMISSIONS AND TRAVELLING LIBRARIES: ROUND TABLE MEETING.

An informal "round table" meeting for the consideration of the work of state library commissions, including travelling libraries, was held in the assembly room of the Fountain House on Tuesday afternoon, July 9. The chairman, MELVIL DEWEY, called the meeting to order at three o'clock, and in a few introductory remarks outlined the subjects to be discussed.

Mr. DEWEY: We have on our program this afternoon two of the most interesting things in library work. The travelling library is reaching out in its manifold forms with wonderful rapidity and gives very great promise of usefulness for the future; organized work under the state commissions is showing every year better and better results and indicating that just as our schools increased their efficiency so immensely by having state departments to look after them, we are repeating the history of that evolution in our state library commissions. We have only a single session this afternoon to discuss these two subjects. If we were to give them one quarter of the time that they ought to have, we would not get one quarter through, and I propose therefore to deal only with questions and answers, and utilize one another's experience or thought along these lines of state commission work and work of administering travelling libraries.

I have noted down some of the topics that have been given to me by persons who wanted to have them discussed briefly; we will first take up some of these. So much has been done in travelling libraries, that perhaps we should clear the floor of that subject, and then consider the work of the state commissions--and in that I mean all the work done by the state in its official capacity--chartering libraries, library legislation, inspection, travelling libraries--whatever the state may do for public libraries.

The first topic is, "What is the best method of getting travelling libraries before the people?" Who has any experience or suggestion to offer on that point--either of difficulties or successes?

A MEMBER: Go to the pastors and school houses.

Mr. HOSTETTER: Does the gentleman mean to put the travelling libraries into school houses? Last Sunday I visited a man who had never heard of such a thing as travelling libraries; he was a German pastor; and probably that accounted for it.

Mr. HUTCHINS: Is there not objection to having travelling libraries in school houses, for the reason that so many of the hours during which the children have leisure to read, and their parents could read, the school houses are closed? Another difficulty is the long summer vacation; and still another is that to place the library in the school house makes the travelling library merely a side issue.

Mr. DEWEY: Where would you put it?

Mr. HUTCHINS: Find somebody to take it in special charge. A travelling library in a community is bound to find some good woman who would rather have charge of it than anything else in the world.

Mr. DEWEY: Then you would put it in a private house?

Mr. HUTCHINS: In a private house or a country post-office--wherever you can find a person who believes in its use and will give service for it.

Mr. GALBREATH: I should like to ask Mr. Hutchins, provided the teacher is a man or woman who believes in the library, what objection is there to placing it in the school house?

Mr. HUTCHINS: The teacher may be a person who believes in it, but he or she makes the school of first importance.

Mr. BRIGHAM: What difference does it make if the library is a side issue, so long as it gets in its work?

Mr. HUTCHINS: If it is a side issue it does not get in its work.

Miss STEARNS: Let us go back to the original question, How to get the travelling library before the people. The best method, we find, is to take with you a county superintendent who is acquainted with all the people in his county, or ought to be. Take your travelling library with you also, just as a travelling man takes his samples. Do not start out with a lot of circulars; take the books themselves right with you, in the back of the wagon. When you have brought the people together open your box; take out your _Scribner_ or your _Youth's Companion_; take out your books on the Philippines, on birds, on cookery; show your audience some good stories; and you will organize a library association ten times quicker than if you had started out by writing letters. Those are letters, very often, that are never answered, and you wait and wonder why the people do not want the books. Go to the people with the books. That is the way we find we can work best in Wisconsin.

Mr. GALBREATH: Sometimes it is difficult to find the means to do the work that Miss Stearns has mentioned, and possibly our experience, briefly stated, in bringing the travelling library to the attention of the people of Ohio might not be out of place here. We began by advertising it through the daily and weekly papers. That brought us very few responses. We next tried to reach the people through the official organ of the teachers of the state. That brought us many responses from rural schools. Our next effort was to reach the farming communities through the state grange, which devoted one of its quarterly bulletins to the travelling libraries. This brought many responses. We reached the women's clubs through circulars issued to their membership, and this was very effective in turn. We found it best to reach the people of the state through the organs that were devoted to specific interests, especially along educational lines.

Mr. DEWEY: Did you go personally to the grangers, write to them, or send printed matter?

Mr. GALBREATH: We saw the lecturer of the grange, who issues a quarterly bulletin in our state. We explained the system fully to him, and he devoted almost an entire bulletin to an explanation of the system, and advised the farmers of the state to patronize the travelling libraries. Then we have published in Ohio the _Ohio Farmer_, which circulates widely outside of the state. That took up the work and helped us greatly. We reached the farmers by going to the public press and using the organs that the farmers read. We reached the teachers in the same way, and the women's clubs. We have advertised our system pretty widely over the state, so that now we do not send circulars except when they are requested. We are circulating about one thousand travelling libraries in Ohio, and they go to all parts of the state. Not only that, but we have travelling library systems in three counties of the state that are in no way dependent upon the state for support and that are doing excellent work.

Mr. HUTCHINS: Do the people pay anything for the libraries?

Mr. GALBREATH: They pay transportation both ways, and that is all.

Miss STEARNS: Do they always have to pay it?

Mr. GALBREATH: Yes.

Miss STEARNS: If you found a community too poor to pay, what would you do?

Mr. GALBREATH: We have not so far met that condition. Perhaps some libraries have not been sent out because the people were too poor to pay the charge, but if that problem does come up before us, we will try to find some person who will pay the transportation.

Mr. DEWEY: Are there no remarks to be made on the use of annotated finding lists in travelling library work?

Mr. HUTCHINS: Annotations are worth a great deal, because the people, at their homes, sit down and talk over the books in these lists, and they get acquainted with the books and the authors.

Mr. DEWEY: The best form of annotation, I take it, would be the brief note, giving the best idea possible of the character of the book, and telling the reader whether he wants to read it or not, not necessarily as a matter of quotation from some one else.

Miss STEARNS: It is always a good plan to put in the publisher and price of the book; if the person gets interested in the book he can find out how much it would cost and where he can get it.

Mr. BRIGHAM: It would be well also to put in the number of pages, so that people know how large a volume it is--150, 250, or 350 pages.

Mr. DEWEY: Has any one else tried the use of a wagon, as described by Miss Stearns--going right to the people and reaching the homes? That means going out into the rural districts and dealing with the farmhouses as individual homes. There must be the right person in the wagon, of course, who can stand and speak for an hour perhaps and leave half a dozen or a dozen books to start the work along.

Miss STEARNS: That is the only way in the world by which you can find what the people like to read--it is only by visiting the people, getting acquainted with them, going right into their homes. The idea of sending a box of books off in a freight car, not knowing anything about the country or the people it is going to! If you want those books to do good work, you must know where they are going.

Mr. DEWEY: That is the way men sell goods. The librarian is just as anxious to place his books to advantage as the merchant is to sell his wares. If he is dealing with the rural community he follows just that method. I am inclined to think that somebody is going to make a great success with those wagons.

Mr. GALBREATH: Where the demand for books is strong, as it is in Ohio, and you have all that you can do to supply that demand, should not that be attended to before you go out in a wagon to enlarge your field?

Mr. DEWEY: Oh, yes; but in Ohio everybody expects to be President sooner or later.

Mr. HUTCHINS: Isn't the point this: Where you only supply a demand you reach the intelligent communities first and the neglected communities are left out; but the libraries should reach the neglected communities. We spend too much money in buying books and not enough in educating the people to use the books. It is the same old story. You spend $10,000 for books and not $200 for administration, and the administration is the important point.

Mr. DEWEY: There is another analogy. We used to have the schools only for the bright boys. It is a modern idea to give education to the dull, the backward, the blind and the deaf, but nowadays they are all being trained. And we keep finding men who are among the strongest citizens of their age, but who, if we get at their early history, we find were once dull, backward boys that somebody hunted up and started along the right lines.

Mr. GALBREATH: What communities, as a rule, are first served in Wisconsin?

Mr. HUTCHINS: The neglected communities. The community in which we are meeting is in the wealthiest part of the state of Wisconsin. We have not got a travelling library near here. We have only 300 of these libraries, and we seek out the neglected communities; not because we do not care to help the people here, but we must take the neglected ones first.

Mr. GALBREATH: This is a practical question. It may be that after a while we will all be seeking the neglected communities. What is the practical method of going out into the state after the neglected communities? How are you going to do it?

Mr. HUTCHINS: That is where you have got to have missionary work, personal contact.

Mr. DEWEY: It is not a question of studying what to do; it is a case of the man behind the idea. If a man starts out who is a born missionary, he will go straight to the communities who need him, while another man will take care of another class. We want to do all the work before us, but if we are so situated that we cannot do both kinds of work in this field, which is the more important to do first, cultivate the good field or the poor field, which if you do not cultivate it will run to weeds and escape us entirely? As Mr. Galbreath asks, if a community is anxious to read, will you supply that, or will you stir somebody up that does not want your supplies? In other words, if there is a field that is rather poor, will you cultivate that at the expense of another field that yields a good crop?

Mr. GALBREATH: It seems to me that a neglected community is one that has no library of any kind of its own; nine-tenths of our travelling libraries go out to communities of that sort.

Mr. HUTCHINS: I would not take that as a definition. In an intelligent community they buy books, they buy magazines, they have intelligent people. A neglected community is one that is not reached by these means, or by any means of civilization.

Mr. GALBREATH: Suppose I go into a community which all the American people are gradually leaving, only foreigners remaining. How can I reach the foreign people that hardly have the English language in their homes, and scarcely in the schools?

Mr. HUTCHINS: Take, for instance, one of those foreign communities. The children go to school; some of them stay in school until they can barely spell out the third reader, and then they go out and become American citizens. Reading is hard work for them. You offer them a chance to read a book, and they do not want it. But in that place we send first with our travelling libraries the _Youth's Companion_ and the little picture papers, to interest them in spelling out little short stories. Try elementary books; simple books of American history and biography; lead them on to better books. But the way is, first of all, to go to them. We have many such communities in the northern part of the state, where the people have come from foreign lands and know nothing about our customs.

Mr. GALBREATH: Another question. I would ask Mr. Hutchins, if a farming community should send to the state commission for a travelling library, and with the request state that they had no library to which they had access, if he would decline to send to them because they were an intelligent community?

Mr. HUTCHINS: No, we send libraries to these communities. We are sending to all classes, but if Miss Stearns, in the northern part of the state, finds a neglected community, and can work with them, and can find some members of the women's clubs to go out and help, we send to them first.

Mr. GALBREATH: I think that perhaps our methods do not vary so much after all. The women's clubs are supplementing our work in that way. In Ohio we have succeeded in interesting a number of the members of the legislature, and frequently they come in and look over our maps illustrating the travelling library work, and say, "There is in our county a community that is very backward. They have no libraries there, and they are not very intelligent. I wish you to write to So-and-so in that community." We do a great deal of work in the line of reaching what Mr. Hutchins calls the neglected communities.

A MEMBER: I would like to ask Mr. Hutchins if he has forgotten that we have something besides the readers in our Wisconsin schools? Under the present school law every district in the state has the beginnings of a library, and adds to that library each year. And we have in each of our school institutes held during the summer a 45-minute period which is spent in training teachers how to get children to read books, how to interest them in the books, and how to show them to get from the book the information it contains. And I would also like to ask if the library placed in the school house is not as accessible to the district as a library that may be placed at some central point? Very often people would have to drive 25 or 30 miles to reach that central point, whereas in the library in the school house the children can take the books to their homes. During the long vacation the library need not be left in the school house, but in some other place.

Mr. HUTCHINS: A library in a school is a school library, no matter where it may be, and the children do not go to the school house after they leave the school.

Mr. DEWEY: The library is an optional affair; the children are compelled to go to school. On the other side, there are a number of advantages in favor of the school building.

Has anybody succeeded in getting from the railroads or express companies special concessions for the transportation of library books?

Mrs. DOCKERY: In Idaho, while the travelling libraries were in the hands of the women's clubs. When they came in the hands of the state, the railroads felt that they should have some compensation, and they gave us half rates. The stage lines give us less than half rates.

E. H. ANDERSON: In Pennsylvania the Adams and the United States Express Companies, which are the two leading companies, have made this concession: We can send out books at full rate going, and half rate returning. These rates apply only on condition that the books returned are paid for at the library, so there is no confusion at any other station.

Mr. MONTGOMERY: How about books that are transferred to another point?

Mr. ANDERSON: We do not transfer them; they must all come back.

G. F. BOWERMAN: The law of Delaware requires that the express companies shall give the franking privilege, both coming and going, to all state documents, and we intend, if possible, to extend that provision to our travelling libraries, now that they are conducted by a state commission.

Mr. HOSTETTER: On the question of express, my experience in Illinois is that the shipping of our books has been unsatisfactory, and I have had some conversation in the matter with the express companies. They seem willing to give us some concessions, and I believe if this meeting would recommend that the American Library Association take up the question of express charges, that we could get for the whole United States a liberal concession for travelling libraries. At least I think we could get as much concession as is given the farmers for returning chicken coops. I think if this is taken up by the Association, as an association, we could get a very liberal reduction.

Mr. BOWERMAN: The Seaboard Air Line runs a free travelling library system, and I presume they send their books over that system free?

Mr. DEWEY: Yes. They also pay expenses, but would they open those privileges to other people?

Mr. BRIGHAM: I want to raise one question. Isn't it a mistake to put the library in the position of a beggar? Is it not better to pay for what we get?

Mr. DEWEY: If we have money enough. We would rather beg than have no bread. We are willing to profit by whatever concession we can get which will enable us to do our work.

No one has spoken of the most important thing of all in this work. We are reaching communities, but there are in all our states great numbers of isolated homes and of farmers. They have more leisure than any other class, especially in the winter, and we have to reach them through the mails. We have a letter from Mr. Lane, of Harvard, upon the movement to secure reduced postal rates for library books, undertaken through the New England Education League by Mr. Scott. This matter is of great importance to us all. [Mr. Lane's letter was read by Mr. Bowerman.]

Mr. MONTGOMERY: In connection with that, has any one here tried to send single books to individuals in any of the communities through the rural delivery system?

Mr. HUTCHINS: We have to a certain extent. We have not sufficient funds to send out enough of the boxes, so we allow a school teacher in the northern part of the state to draw out some book on some subject, and we send these by the rural delivery, or by mail, whichever will reach him most quickly, but of course we have to pay the regular postage.

Mr. HOSTETTER: We have sent out a few books to the country domestic science clubs through the mails, and we have a greater demand for them than we could ever supply. Now I find this experience: the express companies, in the matter of books, would carry a book more cheaply than the United States mail. I am quite confident that the express companies would return the books free, or at a very low rate, if the charges were prepaid. I move that this meeting recommend that the American Library Association take up the question of procuring reduced transportation rates for all free circulating library books.

Mr. DEWEY: If this large meeting is practically agreed on the importance of that, we could send the recommendation into the Council meeting to-night. It seems to me simply inconceivable that we are willing to allow periodicals, bad and indifferent, and the yellow journals, to receive the pound postal rate, while our libraries, suffering from lack of income and working for the public benefit, cannot use the public facilities as cheaply as the people who are using them for public harm instead of public good. I had supposed there would be unanimous approval of an act to register public libraries, owned and maintained for the public benefit, so that they could receive the pound postal rate on books.

Mr. HOSTETTER'S motion was seconded.

Mr. DEWEY: Let us see if there is anything more on this question before the motion is put. There is a bill closely allied to this going into the next Congress. Mr. Hutchins, will you state it briefly?

Mr. HUTCHINS: We have twice tried to secure better transportation in the state of Wisconsin. We have found rural mail carriers who said that they would carry books to the farmers for a travelling library without cost, but the United States law said that we could not do this; that we cannot carry in this way anything under four pounds in weight except it is stamped. Congressman Jenkins, therefore, has drawn a bill which gives libraries authority to send their books free along rural mail routes. At present the farmer must either carry the book himself and return it to the public library, or he must pay postage.

Mr. DEWEY: You say that the carriers cannot take packages under four pounds without stamps?

Mr. HUTCHINS: Yes; the government rules that packages under four pounds are to be sent by mail. Larger packages we could send by the carriers, and we have sometimes thought of sending 15 or 20 books to a neighborhood for distribution. I think that could be done, under the government rule, if the mail carrier was willing to carry them.

Mr. DEWEY: The idea is, that the carrier must not carry anything to compete with the postal service.

Mr. HUTCHINS: Mr. Jenkins, who has drawn this bill for us, has submitted it to all the Senators and Representatives in the United States, and nearly all favor it. Now, I am in favor of Mr. Scott's bill, which gives libraries reduced rates through the whole United States. As things are to-day, if you want to send a travelling library book 100 miles out into the country it costs as much as to send it to San Francisco or New York. If we can get the government to allow transportation by rural free mail delivery it will be an entering wedge for this other bill.

Mr. BOWERMAN: Why cannot the legislation adopting the rural mail delivery also include this matter of the pound rates? Why not have both provisions in one bill? My library is practically free to the whole of Newcastle county, not confined simply to Wilmington, but it is a farming community. We would like to send books to every part of the county, practically to every part of the state. The library is practically free to the state of Delaware, so far as people can come to us, but they cannot come to us; we would like to go to them, but we cannot do it, because of the expense. We could do it if we could afford sufficient postage to send books.

Mr. DEWEY: These are two closely allied questions. Has any one any objection to this Jenkins bill, which, on its face, promises to be so useful to us? I think we can get it, if we work together.

Miss STEARNS: If the government admits library books into this country free of duty, why cannot it allow a man to carry a book free on the rural delivery route if he wants to do it? In our state we have people who cannot afford to pay postage on the books; if the mail-carrier is willing, in the goodness of his heart, to take the book to them, why can't it be done? Why should not a book from a free library be sent free? I do not mean from one state to another, but I mean by rural free delivery.

Mr. BRIGHAM: Would you make it optional with the carrier? Why not make it compulsory? You say, "if he wants" to carry the book. Suppose he does not "want" to carry it?

Miss STEARNS: I would have it so that he can do it for nothing if he wishes, or he can charge a little for express. The rural mail delivery people have to work hard, and they make but little. Now, the United States government has to employ good men to do this work, so it puts in a premium by allowing them to conduct an express business in connection with it. In order, however, that the government may receive its revenue, it does not allow the carriers to carry any packages under four pounds in weight. What we want is to have that embargo removed for free library books, so that they may carry books weighing a pound or a half pound.

Mr. BRIGHAM: The post-office would probably say that this would interfere with the delivery of the regular mail.

Miss STEARNS: If it interferes, then the whole express business interferes. The carriers are doing such a business now for packages about four pounds in weight.

Mr. DEWEY: Then all you need to do is to attach a brick to your book and make it weigh over four pounds. Is there any motion before the meeting?

Mr. BRIGHAM: The motion of the gentleman from Illinois has not been disposed of.

Mr. HOSTETTER: My motion relates to express transportation. Rural delivery is somewhat of an experiment, and it would not reach the case I have in mind. We spend our money for expressage, and we want the express companies to give us a minimum rate.

Mr. DEWEY: I rule there is no motion before us until it is repeated.

Mr. HUSE: I move that we recommend the passage of the Jenkins bill. We ought to pay no attention to all this talk about lines of least resistance. If we have no law, we will find the Post-office Department ready with an objection that will answer any request we may make. If we can get a law authorizing what we want, the Post-office Department will obey it whether we seek the line of least resistance or not.

Mr. DEWEY: Is the motion seconded?

Mr. BRIGHAM: I rise to a point of order. There was a previous motion made and seconded, and I call for the question.