Chapter C: J. Fox (3)

I answered, that as to the noble Lord's motives, he must do me
the justice to say that _I_ had been perfectly silent on that
head. That with respect to the question about the writ of error,
neither did I conceive this to be a proper time for that
discussion. But that with regard to parliamentary fairness, I
did not imagine that His Majesty's Government would think
themselves justified in postponing so important a question, and
which would have been brought on before the recess if there had
been time, merely because the noble Lord meant to move something
about it at a distant day.

This ended the conversation on the subject; except that I added
that the noble Lord had misunderstood me when he imagined that
_I_ was to move the business on the 21st, as I _apprehended_
that it was the intention of Government to do it.

I cannot help thinking that by this, which has been done
entirely without the concurrence or even knowledge of Lord
Shelburne, we have gained a great point. By giving such a
notice, speaking from the Treasury bench in the hearing of, and
backed by Townshend and Pitt, I have most undoubtedly pledged
Government to do something on that day. If that is short of your
wishes, see in what a situation they stand; if not, you are
landed. In the meantime the notice and the explicit declaration
made in your name must surely be infinitely useful to you in
Ireland.

I wait with great impatience the final decision of the Cabinet.
Conway's expression was, that he conceived there was no
objection to any preamble which had not a retrospect. If we can
convince them that ours has none, or frame one not quite so
strong, but very near it, think what ground we stand upon, in
having obtained something stronger and more advantageous to the
interests of Ireland than any renunciation whatever. "For this
we must thank" Mansfield, who has certainly extricated us from a
scene of considerable difficulty.

If it could be done without great inconvenience to you in
Ireland, I should be very desirous either of coming back here,
in case I get away soon enough, or if not, of staying here till
the 21st; because I am convinced my presence here is of infinite
moment, to prevent their being frightened at the time into any
weakening of the preamble, and to goad them on to do something.
For you see, even in this case, the objection was not so much to
the taking any particular step, as to the doing anything at all;
and when forced to that, and driven from their intrenchments of
indolence and delay, you see how much they are inclined to take
the measures you wish. But this shall be decided by your wishes
on the subject, unless I should set out before I receive them.

I say nothing of the dissolution; I have not, however, lost
sight of that, and will press it to-morrow; but I thought the
other the more important point, having so fine an opening, which
I trust you will think I have not neglected.

D'Ivernois is come. He was with me this morning, and comes again
to-morrow. He says the business goes on at Geneva far better
than he could have expected, owing to the Constitution which the
mediating powers have given them, which appears truly, what he
states it, worse than that of Venice.

Believe me, my dear brother,
Ever most affectionately yours,
W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 23rd, 1782.

My dear Brother,

When I wrote last to you, I expressed considerable hopes that
this tedious business was drawing near to a conclusion, and that
Government here would at last consent to grant the happiness and
peace of Great Britain and Ireland, to solicitations that I
should have been ashamed to have employed for any private
object, however near to me. These hopes are, I must confess,
weakened by my conversation of this morning with Townshend. I
can plainly see that he is himself personally disposed to comply
with your wishes. I can as plainly see that a greater and more
powerful minister sets himself against them.

Dec. 24th, 1782.

So far I had written yesterday, when I resolved to delay writing
further to you till to-day, on account of the promise which
Townshend gave me that he would see Lord Shelburne last night,
and press him upon the subject.

I have been with Townshend again this morning, and yet have
nothing like a decided answer to give you. He told me that
Thurlow made the most difficulty, but that Dunning seems to be
entirely with us. Yesterday he said that Shelburne talked much
of the advantages of holding high language. What the tenor of
Conway's language was, I have stated to you before. Of the rest
I know nothing. I own I am rather in doubt whether Lord
Shelburne acts upon a system of resuming, or only of gaining
time; neither of them is very pleasant or flattering to you.

Townshend appears to me to be most heartily and sincerely with
you; nothing can be more explicit than his language was to that
point. He complained of irresponsible Cabinet Ministers, and
seemed to throw it upon that. I then stated your impatience,
what you must feel, and asked how you could go on? I took out of
my pocket your three letters to me, of the 12th and 14th
instant, and read him such extracts as I thought would _express_
your opinion and your impatience, and would pretty strongly
_imply_ though not _express_ your determination upon the subject
of resigning. He took the hint, and said that he could not
wonder at any resolution you might take, and that he had told
the Cabinet so. To this I answered, that it was right for me not
to conceal from _him_ (though I did not mean it as a _formal_
declaration), that you certainly would not stay a moment there,
if you found the proposal of a Bill of recognition either
negatived or put off longer. He repeated that he could not
wonder at it. He then charged me with a commission to write to
you this evening, and to say that although nothing was yet done,
he would labour to the utmost of his power that your wishes
should be complied with, and that he hoped to bring the business
to a conclusion _in a very few days_; that in the meantime he
thought that his writing an official despatch, which should not
be explicit, would be by no means pleasant to you. In this I
agreed most fully.

The difficulty, he told me, lay in bringing them to think of
anything but the peace, by which you see that business is still
_en train_.

This consideration makes me less eager than I should otherwise
be to cut the matter short. I continue to think, that if they
are sufficiently pressed, you will carry your point; because I
am fully persuaded they will not push you to the wall. In the
meantime they feel the situation into which the notice for the
House of Commons has thrown them; for Townshend expressed his
satisfaction at it to-day, and said it lay a necessity on
Government to do something.

While I am writing this, I receive your letters of the 21st. The
despatch will, I think, have a good effect in pressing the thing
forward, and assisting the exertions which I sincerely believe
Townshend will make. At the same time, as it must now be the
27th at soonest before you can receive this letter, which leaves
everything exactly where my last despatches to you did, I should
think upon the receipt of it you would do well to write a letter
to Townshend, rather demanding than requesting an immediate
answer.

What I mean is (if you should approve of the idea), that you
should say, "that after having so repeatedly stated the grounds
of your proposal, to which you can now add nothing," (because
any reasoning of yours brings on more discussion) "except that
every day gives fresh force to them, you have nothing left but
to request, as your situation entitles you to do, that you may
at last have an immediate and explicit answer, in order that on
the one hand you may not disgrace your personal honour and the
faith of Great Britain by continuing to pledge them to
assurances which are not to be performed, nor on the other hand
appear by remaining in your situation without a favourable
answer, to countenance a system which your own mind informs you
to be at once unjust and impracticable." If you think the
expressions too strong, or not sufficiently so, you will weaken
or aggravate them; but I am very impatient to receive some such
letter, which shall _not_ enter into reasons or discussion on a
subject so completely exhausted, but shall manifest your own
intention, which I am convinced will operate more strongly than
all the argument in the world.

You will perhaps say that I have already in my possession such a
paper. But I must own I feel great difficulty in fixing the
exact moment when to make use of it, and when to say that I can
no longer in justice to you give credit to assurances of an
immediate determination so often repeated and so often found
fallacious. With you, who have received none such, there is no
such difficulty. Besides, the letter in my hands can only
operate as an actual resignation on your behalf, and authorized
by you; whereas the letter from you, which I propose, would
operate as a threat, and by that means prevent, I believe, the
event itself; or if not, it would at least convince your
feelings, as well as mine, most unequivocally of the absolute
necessity for taking such a measure, as the only one by which
you could preserve either integrity of character or uprightness
of conduct. Such a letter might, if the winds do not prevent it,
be here in a week from this day; and before that time I am most
thoroughly convinced I shall receive not a single word further
than I have already. With such a letter to deliver to Townshend,
I should think myself authorized to _demand_ a Cabinet; or if I
could not obtain that, to make use of your former letter, and
desire from you that I might see the King, to state to him your
sense of the impracticability of such a system, and of the
certainty that Government will be compelled in October to make
concessions without gaining any advantage by them, infinitely
greater than what would in January conciliate the affections of
all Ireland.

One way or other, this business does most certainly draw to a
conclusion. I allow, by this proposal, one week more for them to
take their resolution. If they delay it beyond that, it is in
effect the most mortifying and the most insulting way of
refusing it that they could have adopted; and as such I think
you would do right to state it in your letter. But whichever way
it terminates, I think we shall derive the greatest advantage
from Townshend's having authorized me to promise that on the
21st something should be done in the English House of Commons,
and having sat by and acquiesced in my saying that _that_
something would, I _apprehended_, be brought forward by
Government. If it is not, I think I need not say what a
situation they stand in; and what ours will be--how much better
than if nothing had been said. On the other hand, if they do
authorize me to bring forward, or bring forward themselves, on
that day, a satisfactory Bill, we shall derive much more
advantage to Government from having given an early notice of it,
and much more personal credit from its coming through my mouth
from you, than if it had been done only by the Minister, and
kept back till the 21st.

I have had no communication with Lord Shelburne, nor have I
either seen or heard from him since I spoke in the House of
Commons. I mean, however, to-morrow to write to him on the
strength of having received fresh despatches from you, and to
press him in the strongest manner, that _the Bill to be_
proposed on the 21st, may be such as will satisfy your wishes by
satisfying the people of Ireland. What the new reason for delay
will be, God knows. In the meantime is it not inconceivable that
a man will hazard so much, in every sense of the word, so much
credit as a Minister, so much in point of character, and so much
in point of weight and support to his administration, without
its being possible for one to discover any one object under
Heaven which he is to gain by the delay? Possibly such a letter
as I wish from you may succeed in bringing him to his senses; if
not, I am sure the sooner your hands are washed of it the
better; for if the rest of your administration in Ireland is to
go on in the same manner, and you are to be left for months
together without knowing whether Government here will expressly
support or expressly contradict you, and all this only that they
may gain time, without having anything further to gain, such a
situation is neither suited for such tempers as we have, nor for
such characters as I hope we shall ever preserve together.

The real grievance seems to be, what did hang as a dead weight
upon the last administration till it pulled it down, and what
must hang as the same dead weight upon this--I mean a Cabinet of
eleven. If these are disunited, there are not wanting, even
among themselves, men to publish it to the world; and how is it
possible that they should be otherwise, except by the means of
that delightful expedient which I stated to you once before, and
which was again alluded to in yesterday's conversation. I should
hope, however, that the appearance of your resolution will put
an end to this scene of procrastination, disgraceful to you and
dangerous to the country; if it does not, I am sure the
resolution itself is most absolutely necessary to vindicate us
to ourselves, as well as to others, from the consequences which
we both foresee.

In the meantime, my dear brother, I cannot close this letter
without expressing to you the extreme pleasure and satisfaction
which I feel when, after having confided so much to my
discretion, you express yourself satisfied that, however
unsuccessful I may have been, the failure of my endeavours to
procure this long-expected answer has not been owing to any want
of zeal or judgment in me, but to those to whom the consequences
are really to be imputed, and who have on that account already
made themselves most deeply responsible both to God and their
country.

Believe me, my dear brother,
Ever most sincerely and affectionately yours,
W. W. G.

D'Ivernois is here, and going over almost immediately to Ireland
with two other _commissaires_.

If any decision should drop from the skies before I receive your
letter to Townshend, I will suppress it entirely.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 25th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

All the effect which I hoped for by the official despatch has
been produced by the confidential communication. Townshend has
had this morning a long conversation with Lord Shelburne, the
result of which is a compliance with your wishes. But this will
be done by an official despatch, and not by a Cabinet minute, as
they cannot venture to meet a Cabinet upon it. Still, however, I
think that is sufficient for you--sufficient to authorize you in
present, and to justify you in future. I write this in great
haste, in order if possible to prevent the measure which I
recommended in my last.

Thurlow will probably oppose it in that House. They talk of
altering the bill, _but not materially_. I put the question
explicitly, whether it was to contain a recognition, and was
answered that it should. Townshend asked me whether you would be
likely to pledge yourself that this should satisfy, as he
thought that might possibly be expected. I said it could not be
expected that you should _pledge_ yourself for madmen, but that
you certainly _hoped_. He then said that it would take a day or
two to prepare and send in circulation the despatch, and hoped
this would make no material difference. I said certainly not, if
I was allowed to state this conversation to you. To this he
agreed. Then I mentioned the dissolution. He said that you
seemed to agree that this would take effect much better with the
news of a peace, and that (he might tell me confidentially) this
must be decided within three days, unless something very
unforeseen happens.

On this idea I wait here a few days longer, and then shall bring
your despatches with me, and go back if you think it right.

I think the event shows how much more strongly your
determination operated, as I said it would, than all the
reasoning possible.

Believe me ever,
My dear brother,
Most sincerely and affectionately yours,
W. W. G.

The "Order" referred to in the following letter is the Order of the Knights of St. Patrick, instituted in Ireland, under the Viceroyalty of Lord Temple, on the 5th of February, 1783.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 28th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

As, in consequence of your letter of the 25th, I mean to stay
over the 21st of January, I write immediately to explain to you
what I referred to in my last about the Order. It is not of any
very great importance; but as I then expected to have seen you
in a few days, I thought I should be able to explain it better
by word of mouth.

It relates to the difficulty of reconciling the business of the
Commoners who have been talked of for it, with the King's strong
approbation of your only having proposed sixteen, and his very
great disinclination, which Townshend has repeatedly expressed
to me, to increase the number even to eighteen or twenty. I
suppose you mean sixteen _exclusive_ of the Sovereign and Grand
Master. I apprehend Conolly, Ponsonby, O'Neill, and Daly to have
been talked of. The difficulty is greater, because I understand
that the two first have more than once refused peerages. This,
however, you will arrange as you think best. The King was
pleased with the motto, _Quis separabit?_ To this would apply
very well the Collar which Hawkins told me had been thought of,
of trefoils and roses alternate. Townshend will write, or has
wrote, to you for a plan, which plan is meant to include Badges,
and all other playthings belonging to it. You'll break Percy's
heart if you settle it all without him. Pray oblige me, as a
herald, so far as to appoint a genealogist, and to make the
Knights deliver in pedigrees three descents back at least: that
is the number in the Garter Statutes, which I send to you. The
Thistle and Bath have both genealogists--the last must be an
arduous office. I do not apprehend that the names are meant to
be sent as part of the plan, nor indeed can you do that yet. Do
you offer one to the _Nolo Privy Councillari_, or do you draw
the line of none but Privy Councillors?

I called the other day on the Archbishop of Cashel, and was told
that he was gone for Ireland; but I'll know in a day or two.
Adieu.

Ever yours,
W. W. G.

The King seems to expect to get two Red Ribands by it--Lord A.
and Lord B. Query the latter.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 30th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I have been with Townshend this morning, and have had a long
conversation with him. He showed me his despatch to you, and
that brought on the conversation, which I managed so that I
might at any time have produced your last letter; but upon the
whole I thought it better not shown, although the words of his
despatch are certainly by no means satisfactory. He spoke very
openly to me, and said that as his despatch had been written
without the concurrence of Cabinet, he thought he could hazard
no more. In this I could not but agree with him, especially as
it gave me occasion to press upon him, for his sake as well as
yours, the necessity of something being finally settled.

He then went at large into the difficulties. He was convinced,
he said, that it would come in the end to your proposition. But
in the meantime Thurlow was against it, and meant to oppose the
Bill; and Shelburne wanted to be forced to it, and said that he
was sure a stand would be to be made somewhere; and why not now?
I answered that it did not seem to me the most prudent step to
choose a post where no man of any description would stand by
you. We had much more conversation of the same sort. There were
those, Townshend said, who had said that as the preliminaries
were expected soon, it would come with better grace then. But,
continued he, if we wait till then, I am afraid it may not come
at all. To this I answered, that this was exactly my idea, but
in the meantime, was it not fit you should know on what ground
you stood? He said so; and (he went on) see where we should be
in that case. The Lord-Lieutenant would not stay an hour. Here
he stopped, as waiting my answer. I immediately said, most
certainly not. And then the person who succeeds him will be to
wait on you. You know better than I do the situation of things
and men. Tell me to whom I am to apply. To the Duke of
Portland's people?--to the old Court and Lord Shannon?--to Hood
and his set? I went on a good deal more in the same strain, and
ended with saying that he could not be astonished, or even at
all surprised, that every day should increase your impatience.
This was to prepare him for your peremptory despatch, which, if
my subsequent letters have not stopped, I shall now most
certainly deliver. He told me that on Wednesday he should see
most of his colleagues, and he should then hope to have some
answer to give me.

I threw out one idea to him, which I said proceeded entirely
from myself: and therefore, if he mentioned it at all, it should
be as a thing to be proposed to you, and not as one coming from
you. It was that, as it would probably be thought right that the
matter should be discussed in a Committee of the whole House as
a foundation for bringing in the Bill, such terms might be used
in the resolutions of that Committee as should obviate the
difficulty which was made upon the idea of the preamble's
referring to past rights. I then mentioned in general words my
idea for those resolutions, but did not give them to him in
writing. I have since reduced them to writing, and enclose them
to you for your ideas upon them. I mean to-morrow to read them
to Townshend, in order to explain my idea fully, but not to
leave them with him. The first resolution is copied almost
verbatim from the addresses. If you turn to them, you will see
what I have omitted, and that I have inserted nothing but what I
thought absolutely necessary, in order not to clog the
resolution, and render it thereby less perspicuous.

Pray let me have your ideas on this as soon as possible. I still
think your preamble will at last be consented to: but a pressing
despatch, to be used or not, as occasion requires, can do no
harm.

Believe me,
My dearest brother,
Most affectionately and sincerely yours,
W. W. G.

1783.

The Renunciation Bill--The Fall of the Shelburne Administration--The Cabinet Interregnum--The Coalition Ministry--Resignation of Lord Temple.

The impediments and delays Mr. Grenville had to encounter in his negotiations with Ministers, are sufficiently detailed in the preceding correspondence. They appear to have originated chiefly with Lord Shelburne, who, in the line of conduct he pursued on this occasion, betrayed either a singular indifference to the state of Ireland, or an inexcusable ignorance of it. For the latter, indeed, he had no reasonable excuse, since the suspense of the public mind, and the growing discontents of the people, were constantly pressed upon his attention by Lord Temple and Mr. Grenville. There certainly was no shadow of pretence for not thoroughly understanding the whole merits of the question at issue between the two kingdoms, and still less for not setting it at rest at once, as the Ministry did at last, and must have intended to do in some shape all throughout. Yet it was not until the beginning of January, 1783, after nearly six weeks of incessant representations and harassing interviews with Lord Shelburne, Pitt and Townshend, that the mission of the Irish Secretary assumed a definite shape, and that something like a distinct hope was held out of its being brought, at last, to a satisfactory conclusion.

Lord Shelburne appears to have been desirous of postponing the Irish difficulty until after he should have succeeded in securing the peace, for which he was then treating with France. He thought that a measure, however just and indispensable in itself, emanating from a strong Government, would be received as a graceful concession, while the same measure, granted by a Government which had been described early in the preceding December by Lord Mornington (afterwards Marquis of Wellesley) as subsisting solely on the divisions of its enemies, might seem to be wrung from the embarrassments of the Administration. This shuffling policy, and want of magnanimity in the Minister--this coquetting with extremities, in the forlorn hope of extracting from them some advantage for a sinking Government, pervaded the councils of the Cabinet, and led finally to its downfall.

In the meanwhile, agitation was rising into open manifestations of distrust and resentment in Ireland. The Volunteers, whose nationality had been appeased by the recent Repeal of the Declaratory Law, renewed their demands for a specific measure, by which the legislative and judicial independence of the country, guaranteed by that Repeal, should be unconditionally recognized, and placed beyond doubt or cavil. Their suspicions were excited by the hesitation of the Imperial Government, and their indignation was roused by the fact that, in contravention of the settlement by Act of Parliament of the rights of Ireland, an Irish case had been heard in an English court of law, and decided by Lord Mansfield. The circumstances were irritating, and peculiarly calculated to shake the confidence of so sensitive a race in the sincerity of their rulers. Nor were there wanting persons who were ready to avail themselves, for factious purposes, of every fresh symptom of national disquietude to inflame the passions of the people. At the head of these disturbing patriots were Lord Beauchamp and Mr. Flood; fortunately, on the other side, was Mr. Grattan, whose pure patriotism, confiding in the honour and justice of the Imperial Legislature, resisted all violent demands, until a fair opportunity had been afforded to England to vindicate the integrity of a settlement, the principle of which was clear, and admitted on all hands. His language on this point, in reply to an Address from the Volunteers, was explicit: "I know of no circumstance, except one, which has really happened to alarm you: the entertaining and deciding by the Court of King's Bench, in England, an Irish cause, is, no doubt, a very great infringement. You do not imagine that I mean to rest under it; but I shall never suppose such a measure to be the act of England, unless her Parliament shall hesitate to do it away in a manner the most clear, comprehensive and satisfactory." Mr. Grattan's firmness stayed the impetuous course of the Volunteers; but it was at the cost of his immediate popularity, and, as it afterwards proved, at the imminent risk of his personal safety.

It was while these events were taking place in Ireland, that Lord Temple and Mr. Grenville were urging upon the Administration the imperative necessity of bringing forward a measure that should satisfy the apprehensions of the Irish people. With that view a Bill, known by the title of the Bill of Renunciation, was prepared by Lord Temple and forwarded to Mr. Grenville. Upon the structure, and not upon the substance, of this Bill, innumerable quibbles were raised. The difficulty with Lord Shelburne was, not the renunciation itself, for that was nothing more than a confirmation of the repeal, but the technical form in which it was to be expressed. Nobody dreamt of disturbing or evading the principle of the measure which this Bill simply declared anew and fortified by a more distinct enunciation; but Ministers could not agree upon the words--for into a discussion about words the whole negotiation finally degenerated. And thus, the fear of compromising the dignity of England by some unguarded expression, or of failing from over caution to satisfy the demands of Ireland, had the effect of protracting the passage of a measure, upon the substantive justice and urgent necessity of which all parties were unanimous.

At length Mr. Grenville was enabled to announce to his brother that these petty discussions were brought to a satisfactory close. But the issue, as will be subsequently seen, was not quite so near as he supposed. The Administration had wasted so much time in verbal criticisms, that, although they had the merit of ultimately introducing the Bill into Parliament, they were obliged to bequeath the satisfaction of earning it to their successors.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE

Pall Mall, Jan. 2nd, 1783.

My dear Brother,

After the many changes and delays which have occurred in the
course of this business, I think I may at last congratulate you,
and what is infinitely more, the two kingdoms, on its being
brought to such an issue as you desire.

I told you in my last despatch that Townshend seemed to me much
alarmed lest he should have gone too far in his letter to you,
and that at the same time I had assured him that you would not
think he went far enough, as the whole question turned upon the
point of recognition, which was very distantly alluded to in his
letter. When I saw him yesterday, his alarms appeared to be
increased. This morning, however, he told me that he had been
with Conway, who understood his authority to be quite sufficient
for what he had done, and with Lord Shelburne, who said that it
was a damned thing, and that he wished Lord Temple would have
stood it, but that it could not be helped, and that he
(Townshend) must therefore think over with the Crown lawyers
such a preamble as should recognize in future, without any
retrospect whatever. To this point Townshend said he thought
your Bill went; and therefore he told me he was to send it down
in that shape in which you sent it (excepting the omission of
the words _of right_ in the two places where they occur) to Lord
Camden for his opinion. I then mentioned what I had hinted to
him before in the way of resolutions, which might, I thought, be
so drawn as to preclude the idea of retrospect. He wished to see
the form I had adopted; upon which I gave him, as coming from
myself only, the enclosed paper, which you will see differs a
little from that which I sent you before. Both these he sent to
Lord Camden, with a letter, desiring that he and myself might
see him to-morrow morning for his ideas on the subject. You will
observe that _he_ is from principle warm for Irish claims; and
therefore I think it not a bad quarter to begin with.

I flatter myself you will approve of my reason for withholding
your despatch No. 16, as the word _courts_, without _of law_,
which we have scratched out, certainly includes the Peers; and
nothing would have been so agreeable to Lords T. and S. as a
point of form which they need not have mentioned till towards
the conclusion of the business, and so might completely have
gained their darling object--time.

Still, however, I thought much of that letter--too important to
be lost--and therefore threw it together into the enclosed
paper, which I sent to Townshend the night before last, together
with a copy of such parts of his despatches as authorized you to
pledge the faith of Government, _he having asked me for them,
not for himself_.

While I was still in a state of suspense, your letter and
despatch of the 29th reached me. I thought it best to keep the
latter till this morning, when, I need hardly say, I did not
deliver it, though I thought proper to read it to Townshend, in
order, as I told him, that he might be perfectly acquainted with
your feelings on the occasion, and might see I had not
exaggerated them. You will remember that your next despatch is
numbered 16. If it comes before you receive this, I will alter
it. To-morrow you shall know the result of Lord Camden's
conversation, upon which much I think depends; though after what
has now passed, I have no idea of the possibility of their
drawing back again, even if they were so inclined.

Brooke's business, Jemmy tells me, passed the Treasury
yesterday.

You will have had an answer, such as it is, about the Duke of L.
and Hussey Burgh.

With regard to Perry, I have written to you already fully on the
subject.

I have talked once or twice about Portugal; but they want
exceedingly to be quickened, _là-dessus_.

Townshend desires to make you an apology through me, and will do
it himself when he writes, for the delay. From him no apology
whatever is necessary. Adieu.

My dear brother,
Ever yours,
W. W. G.

When I pressed Lord Shelburne about Hussey Burgh, he said he
thought there would be no objection to promising him that he
should be made as soon as any one. I stated this to Townshend
this morning, who is to speak to the King about it again
to-morrow.

About this time another subject was engaging the earnest attention of Lord Temple--the foundation (already alluded to) of an Order of Knighthood in Ireland. Several letters relating to the details of the institution, and the claims of different noblemen to be admitted into it, passed between Mr. Grenville and his brother. The following is selected as a specimen:--

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Jan. 7th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Although I think there is every reason to hope that I shall be
able to send you by a messenger, either to-night or to-morrow
morning at furthest, the result of the Cabinet, which, after
having been postponed ever since Sunday, is at last to be held
this evening; yet, as I know by experience, that it may be again
deferred, I would not omit writing to you by post express upon a
subject which you will perhaps think trifling in itself. I went
this morning to Townshend, with your despatches of the 2nd
instant, upon which we had very little conversation, except his
assurances of bringing the business to an end this evening.
After that I turned the conversation to your Order, and read him
the names. To my utter astonishment, he started a doubt whether
my Lord Courtown _would take it_. To which I answered, that the
first names in the list having signified their consent,
undoubtedly it was not a thing to be offered where there was the
least chance of a refusal. He then said that he would take upon
him to sound Lord Courtown; and that, as he was his
brother-in-law, he would throw out to him that a thing of the
sort was in agitation; and that if Lord Courtown should like it,
he believed that _he, Townshend_, would have interest enough to
_procure it for him_. It was impossible for me to tell
Townshend, or even to give him to understand what nevertheless
certainly ought to have occurred to him, that it would but ill
answer your purpose, whatever it was, in recommending Lord
Courtown, that the merit of it should be ascribed to him.

I had nothing, therefore, left but to drop the conversation, and
to write to you, as I now do, immediately on my return home, to
suggest to you whether it would not be worth your while, without
affecting to know anything of this, to write to Lord Courtown to
offer it, and perhaps to Townshend, to make a great merit with
him of the recommendation of his brother-in-law, as the only
non-resident Knight. The sooner you send in the list and plan,
&c., &c., undoubtedly the better.

Your names appear to me all unexceptionable, except possibly
Lord Bechoe, who you know will give some trouble to the heralds
to make out whether his father, who was a grazier, ever had a
father of his own. But he is a man of great fortune, and a
steady friend of Government, and I should think might pass. Lord
Nugent's refusal leaves a vacancy. I own I should be inclined to
Lord Mountgarret as the senior Viscount, which would show that
it was not to be exclusively confined to Earls, at the same time
that no other person could pretend the same claims with so old a
peer, the senior Viscount, and the first man in rank of so great
a family. Besides, this might detach Butler, of the county
Kilkenny, from Flood; and it is surely a great object to cut him
off from all hopes of the county, as that would give him an
appearance of popularity, &c., &c. Unless you do something of
this sort, shall you not apprehend affronting the lower orders
of the peerage? If Lord Kinsale was not what he is, I should
wish for him on the same account, but that is impossible. Pray
consider the other well, for it strikes me as important.

I return you the Derry Papers. Townshend is to search his office
for their intercepted correspondence here, which I will send
you.

Bulkeley wrote me the enclosed, to which I returned an
ostensible answer, referring to you, but at the same time
distinguishing between a pension, and provision out of the
revenue for a revenue officer's widow.

Townshend sends you McLaughlin's petition and case. What does
Lord Beauchamp mean by his letter to the "Vol." about the King's
speech?

Pray desire Lady Temple not to forget Lord Nugent's velvet, or
he will be outrageous.

Believe me, ever yours,
W. W. G.

One good result had been attained by the perseverance with which Mr. Grenville pursued his object with Ministers in reference to the Renunciation Bill, and the consistency he observed in maintaining the policy which he and Lord Temple knew to be essential to the security of the British power in Ireland. If that policy was not carried out, Lord Temple was relieved from all responsibility, and was prepared to relinquish into other hands the confusion and disorder which he could not obtain the means of ameliorating. As Mr. Grenville observes in the following letter, he was "completely master of his own ground;" he had clearly stated, and constantly urged his views of the only course that could be followed with safety or credit; and if he failed in carrying them into effect, the _onus_ would rest with the Administration. Happily he did not fail. The Bill was shaped and passed; but the obstacles which impeded it, and which are detailed in subsequent letters, rendered its ultimate success doubtful up to the last moment.

Looking back, at this distance of time, upon the curious struggle which took place in the Cabinet on this question, we cannot fail to be struck by the immense disproportion between cause and effect exhibited in this strange episode in the history of the Shelburne Administration. The full recognition of the rights of Ireland had received the concurrent sanction of the Legislatures of both kingdoms only a short time before. No doubt whatever existed as to the intention of the repeal of the Declaratory Law. The Volunteers, to whose energetic demonstrations that healing measure was mainly attributable, were thoroughly satisfied, and, instead of displaying their nationality in angry and defiant resolutions, they adopted the language of congratulation and enthusiastic allegiance to the Government. This felicitous state of things was suddenly interrupted by one of those incidents which no foresight could have anticipated, and which, absolutely trivial in itself, was magnified at once, by the jealous spirit of patriotism, into a violation of the solemn compact that had just been ratified on both sides of the Channel. An Irish cause was brought into an English court of justice, was heard in the ordinary way, like any other cause, without reference to the competency of the tribunal before which it was tried, and decided, as a matter of course, by Lord Mansfield. The remedy for this contravention of the notorious settlement of the judicial independence of Ireland was plain. The decision was waste paper: it could not be carried into effect. The Irish might have rested satisfied with the power which they possessed of nullifying and rejecting the authority of the English Judge. But the delays of the Cabinet awakened their suspicions, and they apprehended, not, perhaps, very unnaturally, that if they suffered this single case of illegal interference to pass without some decisive declaration on the part of the English Legislature, it would be wrested into a precedent for further and still more dangerous innovations. Mr. Grattan held this opinion also, but trusted implicitly to the honour of the English Parliament for a measure that should fully set at rest all uneasiness on the subject; while Lord Temple was so impressed with the propriety of adopting such a measure that he drew up the Bill of Renunciation, which, after much superfluous discussion, ultimately passed into a law.

The case itself, however, lay in the narrowest compass, and admitted of the simplest solution. The Irish cause which had occasioned all this trouble, and menaced so seriously the tranquillity of the country, had been entered for hearing _before_ the operation of the Repeal, but delayed by some accident until a subsequent term. The reason why it was not dismissed when it came before the court was, that the time had elapsed for pleading against the competency of the court, pleadings having already begun upon the matter of the suit. The parties could not plead to the writ--to use the legal phraseology--because they had already pleaded in chief. The only time when, according to the practice of the court, the competency of the court could be objected to was when the cause was entered; but at that time the objection did not exist, and when the cause came on for hearing it was too late. Lord Mansfield took the cause without any reference to the special circumstances attending it, which he was not judicially called upon to notice. He acted strictly on the practice of the court; and, although it was held by some of the statesmen of the day that he ought to have taken a more enlarged view of so peculiar a case, it was the opinion of Mr. Fox that he could not have acted otherwise than he did. At all events, the case could never have been drawn into a precedent. The real point for consideration, upon which Mr. Fox--who had himself framed the Act of Repeal--entertained some doubts, was whether the Repeal was sufficiently minute and comprehensive in its scope, to extinguish the right of appeal in Irish cases, by writs of error, to the King's Bench of Great Britain. But this point was not raised, on its special merits, by Lord Mansfield's decision, which involved nothing more than a technical question arising out of the practice of the court. It was wise to allay the feverish anxiety of the people, by removing any obscurity that hung over the settlement of the separate judicature of Ireland; but, such being clearly the intention of the Imperial Legislature, it is difficult to understand why it should have entailed so much clamour and misunderstanding.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Jan. 8th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

This morning I received your letter and despatch of the 3rd and
4th instant, and soon after, the enclosed note from Townshend.
The general idea is, that they have received the exceedingly bad
news of their negotiation being totally at an end; and the style
of this letter seems, I must own, to confirm it. Before I close
this letter, which shall not be till to-night, I shall most
probably know with certainty. If it should be so, I see nothing
in Lord Shelburne's conduct throughout this business, which can
prevent me from being convinced that he has foreseen this
conclusion, that the _acquiescence_ is to be ascribed to that
foresight, and to an intention of pledging you to some very
strong measure to be immediately proposed to Ireland--of men,
money, or some other support; and that his language about peace
was calculated for no other purpose than that of making to
himself a merit which he had not, and inducing me to pledge you
with less difficulty to something of this sort, in the
_improbable event_ of a continuation of the war. If that should
have been his aim, I have at least the consolation to reflect
that I made none but a _very_ general answer to that part of his
conversation to which I allude, and which I stated to you at
length in a former letter.

At the same time, I must freely own that I have been duped upon
the subject of peace; not so much by their assurances, strong as
those have been, and often as they have been repeated, as by the
opinion which I then held, and which I have not much altered
now, that a peace was absolutely necessary to their system of
government. However, be all this as it may, I think you are in a
situation to _voir venir_, and to rest upon your oars in full
confidence that you are now completely master of your own
ground, whether you are to be left to carry on the Government of
Ireland upon those principles on which you have begun it, and on
which alone we know it can be carried on with success, or
whether the system is to be altered, and committed, of course,
to other hands; in which there is no doubt but that the
ill-success and confusion that must follow will justify your
predictions to such a degree, and place your character in such a
light, as would almost make it an event to be wished for by you,
if it was not so fatal to the interests of both countries.

And this brings me to another point, in which I am very happy to
feel myself justified and confirmed by your instructions in that
line of conduct which I had fully resolved to adopt. I mean the
holding out the most peremptory refusal to making either you or
myself at all a party to postponing the business beyond the
21st, except in the single instance of their having some
proposition to bring forward then, about their negotiations, of
such a nature as to make the reason obvious to the mind of every
man in Ireland, as well as in England. In such a case I will
acquiesce, because I think I cannot in decency avoid it, under
the delay of one day only. In every other case which can be
supposed, I will claim a right to state to the House that the
delay is neither consented to by you, nor arises from you; but
is in your idea most pernicious. Surely, my own character and
honour, as well as your's, demand this from me.

I am sick to death of this scene. Since I wrote the first part
of my letter I have been to the levée, where I saw Townshend,
and learnt from him that Lord Camden had taken upon himself to
draw up a new preamble, which was _to soften on both
sides_.--(What the meaning of this curious expression is, I will
not pretend to say.) I then said, that at least I hoped it would
contain an _explicit_ recognition; because the measure would
only be useful, in proportion as it _was_ explicit. He agreed
with me, as he had always done, and wished that I had seen Lord
Camden. I asked if he was in town; he said he was to go back
to-day to Chiselhurst, and had desired _him_ to hold the
council, _in his absence, on Friday_. I immediately went home,
and wrote to Lord Camden, desiring to be allowed to wait upon
him; but he was gone. I have just sent your despatch of the 4th,
with the enclosed note to Townshend, which I hope will find him
before dinner. How little does all this agree with Lord
Shelburne's idea of doing what would be most satisfactory, and
with all my fine reasoning at the beginning of my letter!

I will certainly write to you more when I come back from dinner;
and, if I _can_ make him, Townshend shall write too, because
they cannot, upon paper, assign any good reason for the delay,
and a bad one will give you advantages. Upon the whole, what a
scene it is!

The news at Court was, that the negotiations are not broke off,
only delayed; and this I take to be the real case, as no letter
has been written to the Lord Mayor. If that be so, I shall of
course hear no more of it to-day.

Elliott is to have a Red Ribband.

Jan. 10.

I have delayed finishing this letter till this morning, in the
vain hope of being able to get something specific to propose to
you. After dinner, on the 8th, Townshend produced Lord Camden's
preamble. I send you a copy of it, and need not, I am sure,
observe to you how unsatisfactory it is to Ireland, and how
humiliating to Great Britain; and how perfect an ignorance it
shows, after all that has passed, of that business which is
referred to him for a decision. Neither Lord Shelburne,
Townshend, nor Pitt, who were present, attempted to defend it
against the observations I made upon it.

Some conversation passed upon it, after which Townshend went
away. The conversation then turned more particularly upon what
was to be done, in which the only very settled idea that I could
find was, that your preamble was not to be adopted.

Pitt then threw out the idea of declaring the intention of the
Act of Repeal, and making the new enacting clause a consequence
of the principles then adopted. We talked this over a little. I
pressed for something being settled to send over to you. The
answer Lord Shelburne gave me was, that the Cabinet lawyers were
all dispersed, and without them nothing could be finally
settled. Pitt then went away. I continued the conversation, and
asked Lord Shelburne if it would not be right, as he had
approved of Pitt's idea, that I should see Pitt, and endeavour
to put something upon paper upon it. In this he agreed.

When I went home, I sent the enclosed note to Pitt, and in
consequence of it saw him yesterday morning. I was near two
hours with him, drawing up something of a form. At last, the
Bill No. 1. was settled: more, I believe, because we were both
tired out with weighing words, than for any great merit that I
see in it. However, at the time I thought it might do; but in
the course of the day, thinking it over, I disliked it, and sent
the form No. 2. to Pitt, who desired to see me again. When I
went to him, he proposed, after some conversation, the Bill No.
3., which I took to consider.

But, in the meantime, I am _au dernier point_ at a loss what to
do in it; because, after an absence of six weeks, I know no more
of the present ideas of people in Ireland, and of the squabbles
and distinctions of words on which the whole turns, than the
Ministers here do; and less, God knows, I cannot know! If you
wait till something is formally sent you, I shall certainly be
reduced to the necessity either of putting the business off, or
of doing something in a hurry, without knowing whether it be
right or wrong. For you may depend upon it, that neither will
any of the unlearned Ministers pledge themselves to a specific
form, nor will the learned come from their rural retreats one
hour before the 17th.