Chapter II: The Military State of North America (3)

_June 5th._ Mr Carmichael waited on the Minister, agreeably
to appointment, who, on his entrance, immediately expressed
his concern, that the arrival of a courier, which informed
him of the intentions of the Court of Great Britain to
expedite the sailing of their grand fleet, had engaged his
attention so much as to prevent him from fulfilling his
promise of sending the notes mentioned in the former
conferences, that he would certainly do it on the Wednesday
following, and desired Mr Carmichael to wait on him that day
at the same hour to receive them. He then mentioned an
expedition, which had been proposed to him from Bilboa, to
intercept the homeward bound ships of the East India Company,
by equipping some frigates in America at the expense of his
Catholic Majesty, desiring Mr Carmichael to communicate this
to Mr Jay, that he might turn his attention to that object,
to enable him to judge of the probability of its success. He
touched slightly on the subject of bills of exchange, and on
the only difficulty of the treaty, viz. the navigation of the
Mississippi, which he said he hoped some middle means might
be hit on to obviate. He concluded by saying that he would
give his sentiments on that, and other subjects to Mr Jay in
writing at the time abovementioned, and hoped that he would
believe the delay hitherto proceeded from no other motives
than those he had mentioned. Mr Carmichael assured him, that
Mr Jay was too sensible of the importance of his other
occupations, and of his candor, to impute the delay to any
other cause, and after common civilities he withdrew.

This conversation needs no comment. It promised well. On or about the 19th of June, Mr Cumberland, his wife, and two daughters arrived, appeared publicly, and were openly visited and received by persons of distinction. But although it was not difficult to know who he was, and with whom he associated, his business and measures continue to this day mere objects of conjecture, further that he or the Minister has thought proper to communicate them.[25] The impression made by his arrival on the minds of the people is worthy of remark. They supposed his errand to be secret overtures for peace, and as far as I can judge were very glad of it. There is reason to believe that he favored these conjectures from the first. He has since said publicly, that he was authorised to offer to Spain Gibraltar, and other advantageous terms.

On the 7th of June, I received from the Minister his notes on the subject of aids. They are in these words.

Translation.

Aranjues, June 7th, 1780.

"His Catholic Majesty would be very glad to be able to
furnish, at the present crisis, funds for the payment of the
one hundred thousand pounds sterling, proposed to be
addressed to Mr Jay, in order to evince the concern which the
King takes in the prosperity and relief of the United States
of North America, as well as in the personal satisfaction of
the abovementioned gentleman. But the demands of the present
war, and the great difficulty there would be to transport
hither the treasures of the King's possessions in that part
of the world, render it impracticable to furnish here, the
said sum in specie, as could be wished. Some expedient,
however, may be found to remedy this inconvenience. For
example; if the owners of the bills of exchange would be
content with the security or responsibility of his Catholic
Majesty, to pay the sum already mentioned in the term of two
years. The King will readily agree to such an arrangement,
even if it should be found necessary to add a moderate
interest. This security, given by such a sovereign as the
King of Spain, would induce the owners of those bills of
exchange, and the creditors of Congress to consent to a
measure so advantageous, and would equally serve to sustain
the credit and good faith of the same body.

"Mr Jay, therefore, is entreated to reflect on the idea just
stated to him, and in answer to inform us what measures he
thinks suitable to this scheme, in order that they may be
laid before the King, and his orders taken thereon. If the
expedient in question should be adopted, it will at the same
time be necessary to take measures in concert to reimburse to
the King this considerable sum, as well as others already
expended in favor of the United States. The first idea which
offers for reciprocal convenience is that Congress should
engage to build without delay some handsome frigates and
other smaller vessels of war, fixing the price of each, and
the time when they will be finished.

"This point once settled, it will be proper immediately to
take measures to equip these vessels as fast as they are
ready; to point out what articles will be necessary to send
from Spain for this purpose, and in what port they will have
notice to receive them. After this it is expedient to be
informed, whether the Americans themselves will engage to
come to the ports of Bilboa, St Ander, Ferrol, or Cadiz, for
the said articles, which they will find ready, and afterwards
transport them in their own vessels of war or letters of
marque to America. On this supposition it is conjectured,
that it would be easy to find hands enough in America to man
these new built vessels, which will sail under Spanish
colors. There are certainly among the subjects of the said
United States many who have made the voyage, and are
acquainted with the usual route of the ships of the English
East India Company, and who know perfectly well the ports and
places at which they stop. This fact established, it is
proposed to equip in the ports of the United States four good
frigates, and some other lighter vessels, with the effects
which shall be sent from hence on account of Spain. This
small squadron, under Spanish colors, shall be employed to
intercept the convoys of the said Company by cruising in the
proper latitudes. The measures just pointed out appear to be
the most proper to reimburse, in some shape, the expenses
already incurred by his Catholic Majesty, and to answer for
such security as has been proposed to be given in this
memoir. It being always understood, that a share of the
prizes taken from the English by this small squadron shall be
given to the crews, and even to Congress, in proportion to
the assistance which they shall furnish for the equipment of
the vessels.

"A speedy and decisive answer to all the points here
enumerated is requested, and Mr Jay is too enlightened not to
perceive that the common cause is interested therein."

To this paper, which deserves much attention, I returned the following answer.

"Aranjues, June 9th, 1780.

"Sir,

"The propositions which your Excellency did me the honor to
send on the 7th inst. have been considered with all the
attention, which their great importance demands.

"The evidence they contain of his Majesty's friendly
disposition towards the United States will, I am persuaded,
make correspondent impressions on the citizens of America;
and permit me to assure you, that his Majesty's desire of
contributing to my personal satisfaction by measures
conducive to the welfare of my country, has excited my
warmest acknowledgments and attachment.

"The enlarged ideas my constituents entertain of the power,
wealth, and resources of Spain, are equal to those they have
imbibed of the wisdom and probity of his Catholic Majesty,
and of that noble and generous system of policy, which has
induced him to patronize their cause, and, by completing
their separation from Great Britain, effectually to disarm
the latter. Such wise and liberal designs, followed by such
great and extensive consequences, would add a bright page to
the annals of a reign already signalised by important events.
It is, therefore, with deep regret that Congress would
receive information that the aid they solicit, small when
compared with their ideas of the resources of Spain, has been
rendered impracticable by the expenses of a war, which, on
the part of Spain, is of a recent date. Nor will their
disappointment be less than their regret, when they find
their credit diminished by the failure of a measure, from the
success of which they expected to raise it.

"The kind disposition of his Majesty to become responsible at
the expiration of two years for the amount of the bills in
question, and that even with interest, is a proof of his
goodness, by which I am confident the United States will
consider themselves greatly obliged. But when it is
considered that bills of exchange, immediately on being drawn
and sold, become a medium in commerce, and pass through
various hands in satisfaction of various mercantile
contracts; that the drawer and every endorser become
responsible for their credit at every transfer; and that the
object of the merchants last holding the bills, as well as of
all other merchants, is money in hand or actively employed in
trade, and not money lying still, at an interest greatly
inferior to the usual profits to be gained in commerce; I
say, on considering these things, it appears to me that,
although no objection can be made to the good faith of his
Majesty, which is acknowledged by all the world, yet that the
last holders of the bills will prefer recovering the amount
of them, with the usual damages on protests, to delay of
payment for two years with interest.

"Should these bills, therefore, meet with this fate, his
Majesty will readily perceive its influence on the credit,
operations, and feelings of the United States; on the common
cause; on the hopes and spirits of the enemy. The necessity
or prudence which detains his Majesty's treasure in his
American dominions, is an unfortunate circumstance at a time
when it might be so usefully employed. There is,
nevertheless, room to hope, that the great superiority of the
allied fleets and armaments in the American seas will, in the
course of a year or eighteen months, render its
transportation safe and easy, and that the greater part of it
may arrive before the bills in question would become payable.
This will appear more probable, when the time necessary to
sell these bills, and the time which will be consumed in
their passage from America, and the time which will be
employed in their journey from different ports of Europe to
this place, are all added to the half a year which is
allotted for the payment of them after they have been
presented. I am authorised and ready to engage and pledge
the faith of the United States for the punctual repayment,
with interest, and within a reasonable term, of any sums of
money which his Majesty may be so kind as to lend them.

"As to the aids heretofore supplied to the United States, I
am without information relative to the precise terms on which
they were furnished, as well as their amount. When I left
Congress, they appeared to me not to possess full and
positive intelligence on these points. I ascribe this, not to
omissions in their commissioner, who then had the direction
of these affairs, but to those miscarriages and accidents, to
which the communication of intelligence to a distant country
is liable in time of war. If it should appear proper to your
Excellency, in order that I may be furnished with an accurate
and full statement of these transactions, I will do myself
the honor of transmitting them immediately to Congress; and,
as they happened prior to my appointment, I shall request
particular instructions on the subject.

"With respect to the plan proposed for the repayment of such
sums as Spain may lend to the United States, viz. by the
latter furnishing the former with frigates, &c. &c. I beg
leave to submit the following remarks to your Excellency's
consideration. In the United States there are timber, iron,
masts, shipwrights, pitch, tar, and turpentine; and Spain can
furnish the other requisites. But neither the timber, the
iron, the masts, nor the other articles, can be procured
without money. The Congress are in great want of money for
the immediate purposes of self-defence, for the maintenance
of their armies and vessels of war, and for all the other
expenses incident to military operations. The Congress,
pressed by their necessities, have emitted bills of credit,
till the depreciation of them forbids further emissions. They
have made loans from their great and good ally, and, in aid
of the system of gaining supplies by taxation and domestic
loans, they have, for the reasons which I have already had
the honor of explaining to your Excellency, drawn upon me the
bills before mentioned. These bills will be sold in the
United States for paper money, and that money will be
immediately wanted for the purposes I have enumerated. If,
therefore, this money was to be turned into frigates, the
obvious ends of drawing those bills would not be attained.
The war against the United States has raged without
intermission for six years already, and it will not be in
their power to pay their debts during its further
continuance, nor until the return of peace and uninterrupted
commerce shall furnish them with the means of doing it.

"That excellent frigates and other vessels may be built in
America cheaper than in Europe, I am persuaded. And I know,
that Congress will cheerfully give every aid in their power
to facilitate the execution of any plan of that kind, which
his Majesty may adopt, but, Sir, their necessities will not
permit them to supply money to those purposes, and I should
deceive your Excellency with delusive expectations, were I to
lead you to think otherwise. I would rather, that the United
States should be without money than without good faith; and,
therefore, neither my own principles of action, nor the
respect due to his Majesty and reputation of my country, will
ever suffer me (if my authority extended so far) to enter
into any contracts, which I had not the highest reason to
believe would be fully, fairly, and punctually performed on
the part of my constituents. Nor, in case his Majesty should
think proper to cause frigates to be built in America, can I
encourage your Excellency to expect, that they could be
easily manned there for cruises. The fact is, that the
American frigates often find difficulties in completing their
compliments, principally because the seamen prefer going in
privateers, which are numerous, and too useful to be
discouraged.

"The design of preparing an armament to intercept the English
East Indiamen appears to me very judicious. The enemy draw
their resources from commerce; to annoy the one, therefore,
is to injure the other. Before the present war, there were
several, but not a great many Americans, well acquainted with
the route of the East Indiamen. But whether any number of
these men could now be secretly collected is uncertain; for
if by a particular selection of and inquiry for them, the
enemy should become apprized of the design, they would
naturally take measures to frustrate it. For my part, I
should suppose, that many of these men are not necessary, and
that the proper number may be had from France, if not from
America.

"The idea of the United States co-operating in the execution
of this plan is flattering, and the terms proposed generous.
But so far as this co-operation will depend on the building
of frigates there as proposed, it cannot be effected from
their want of money. Whether the American frigates could be
employed in such an enterprise, that is, whether the
services, for which they may be already destined, will admit
of it, are, with other similar circumstances, necessary to be
known before that question could possibly be answered. The
distance from America, and the length of time necessary to
ask for and receive information and instructions from
thence, are such, that it would probably be more expedient,
that engagements for these purposes should be discussed and
concluded there than here. The circumstances of the United
States, while invaded, will be more fluctuating than those of
Spain, and measures in which they might conveniently embark
at one period, may shortly after be rendered impracticable by
the vicisitudes of war. It is further to be observed, that a
people, rising amidst such terrible struggles, with an
extensive country to defend, and that country invaded, and,
as it were, on fire in several places at once, are not in
good condition for foreign enterprises; but, on the contrary,
that it must generally be their interest, and of course their
policy, to keep their forces and strength at home, till the
expulsion of their enemies shall afford them leisure and
opportunities for distant and offensive operations.

"Whenever this period shall arrive, his Majesty may be
assured, that the United States will not remain idle, but
that, impelled by resentments too deep and too just to be
transitory, as well as by unshaken attachment to their
friends, they will persevere with firmness and constancy in
the common cause, and cheerfully unite their efforts with
those of France and Spain, in compelling the common enemy to
accept of reasonable terms of peace. I can, also, with great
confidence, assure your Excellency that the United States
will be happy in every opportunity, which may offer during
the war, of joining their arms to those of Spain, and in
co-operating with them in any expeditions, which
circumstances may render expedient against the Floridas, or
other objects. The Americans would most cheerfully fight by
the side of the Spaniards, and by spilling their blood in the
same cause, and on the same occasion, convince them of their
ardent desire to become their faithful friends and steadfast
allies.

"I cannot prevail upon myself to conclude, without expressing
to your Excellency my apprehension of the anxiety, and
painful concern, with which Congress would receive
intelligence of the failure of their bills, and especially
after the expectations they have been induced to conceive of
the successful issue of their affairs here. What conclusions
the enemy would draw from the inability of Spain to advance
the sum in question, even to men actually in arms against
Great Britain, I forbear to mention, nor would it become me
to point out the several evil consequences flowing from such
an event, to those who enjoy from nature and experience more
discernment than I am blessed with.

"I still flatter myself, that some expedients may be devised
to surmount the present difficulties, and that the harvest of
laurels now ripening for his Majesty in America will not be
permitted to wither for want of watering.

"Influenced by this hope, I shall delay transmitting any
intelligence respecting this matter to Congress, till your
Excellency shall be pleased to communicate to me his
Majesty's further pleasure on the subject.

"I have the honor to be, &c.

JOHN JAY."

Your Excellency will doubtless observe, that this answer does not comprehend all the objections to which the Minister's plan is liable, such, for instance, as the proposal that the vessels proposed to be built in America, with the money of America, and to be navigated by Americans, should sail under _Spanish colors, &c._ I thought it most prudent to avoid taking notice of these and similar circumstances, lest objections, which might be ascribed to pride, as well as reason, might lose their force in that supposition, and, instead of convincing, serve only to irritate.

Nothing further passed between the Minister and myself except a message or two respecting each other's health, until the 19th day of June, when I sent him the following card.

"Mr Jay presents his respectful compliments to his
Excellency, the Count de Florida Blanca, and takes the
liberty of enclosing the copy of a note he has just received,
respecting a bill drawn upon him for three hundred and
thirtythree dollars. From this his Excellency will perceive
the painful situation Mr Jay is in. He forbears making any
reflections on it, being persuaded that his Excellency's
wisdom and sensibility render them unnecessary.

"_Madrid, June 19th, 1780._"

On the 20th instant I received the following answer.

Translation.

"The Count de Florida Blanca will have no difficulty in
paying the bill of three hundred and thirtythree dollars
mentioned in Mr Jay's note of yesterday, both on account of
its small value, and in consequence of what he had the honor
to offer him at their last conference; but he cannot forbear
observing to Mr Jay, that it will be impossible to show the
same complaisance for other bills without consulting the
pleasure of the King.

"The means hitherto proposed not having been considered as
agreeable to Congress, it has become necessary to seek for
others, and Mr Jay will do well to think seriously on this
subject, and communicate to the Count de Florida Blanca
whatever his wisdom and information may suggest to him."

This looked dry, and indicated a degree of irritation, though it held up the idea of further means.

I replied to it on the 22d of June, as follows.

"Madrid, June 22d, 1780.

"Sir,

"I received the note your Excellency did me the honor to
write on the 20th instant, and I take the earliest
opportunity of expressing my thanks for your Excellency's
permission to accept the bills mentioned in it, which I have
accordingly done.

"Agreeably to your Excellency's recommendation in the first
conference, I have turned my thoughts very seriously to the
objects which were the subjects of it, relative to the bills
drawn upon me; they were two.

"1st. The means of paying these bills.

"2dly. The proposed contract with America for light vessels,
&c.

"With respect to the _first_, it appeared to me, that the
principal difficulty was removed by your Excellency's
informing me, '_that at the end of the present year, it would
be in your power to advance twentyfive, thirty, or forty
thousand pounds sterling_.' Hence I inferred, that as much
time would be taken up in the sale, negotiation, and
transmission of those bills, and as so long a space as six
months was assigned for their payment, after being presented,
that the sums which it would be in your Excellency's power to
advance at the end of the year, would probably be equal to
the amount of the bills which would then become payable; and
that in the mean time such further means might be provided,
as would obviate difficulties with respect to those that
might afterwards become due. When I reflected that I was a
stranger to the resources of Spain, and that your
Excellency's acknowledged abilities comprehended all the
objects and combinations necessary in determining what
supplies they were capable of affording, and the manner and
means most proper for the purpose, it appeared to me in the
light of presumption to hazard to your Excellency any
propositions on the subject.

"2dly. On considering the proposed contract, it became
important to distinguish between the building these vessels
with the money of the United States, or with that of Spain.
The latter was very practicable, and I gave your Excellency
that opinion in my letter of the 9th instant. The former, on
the contrary, appeared to me not to be within the power of
the United States, and candor obliged me to make this known
to your Excellency in the same letter.

"I knew it to be impossible for Congress, consistent with
good faith, to contract; that, notwithstanding their great
want of money, the injuries of a six years' war, and their
being actually invaded, they would repay immediately the
monies lent them, either in ships or otherwise. It is not
uncommon for ancient and opulent nations to find it necessary
to borrow money in time of war, but I believe it very seldom
happens, that they find it convenient to pay those debts till
the return of peace. If this be the case with powerful and
long established nations, more cannot be expected from a
young nation brought forth by oppression, and rising amidst
every species of violence and devastation, which fire, sword,
and malice can furnish for their destruction.

"If attentive only to obtaining payment of these bills, and
thereby relieving my country from the complicated evils which
must result from their being protested, I had entered into
the proposed engagements for immediate repayment, by building
vessels, &c. if I had done this, notwithstanding a full
conviction, that the contract so made could not be fulfilled,
my conduct, however convenient in its immediate consequences,
would have been highly reprehensible. This reflection,
therefore, will I hope convince your Excellency of the purity
of my intentions, and induce you to ascribe my objections to
the contract, to want of ability, and not to want of
inclination in the United States to perform it. No
consideration will ever prevail upon me to practise
deception, and I am happy in a persuasion, that although
truths may sometimes not please, yet that when delivered with
decency and respect, they will never offend either his
Majesty or your Excellency.

"Believe me, Sir, the United States will not be able to pay
their debts during the war, and therefore any plan whatever
calculated on a contrary position must be fruitless. I am
ready to pledge their faith for repaying to his Majesty,
within a reasonable term after the war, and with a reasonable
interest, any sums he may be so kind as to lend them. What
more can I offer? What more can they do? If there be any
services they can do to his Majesty, consistent with their
safety and defence, they are ready and will be happy to
render them. They respect the King and the nation, and at the
very time they are requesting his aid, they are soliciting to
be united to him by bonds of perpetual amity and alliance.
Against his enemies as well as their own, they are now in
arms; and the supplies they ask are not for the purpose of
luxury or aggrandizement, but for the sole and express
purpose of annoying those enemies, and enabling France,
Spain, and themselves, to obtain a peace honorable and
advantageous to each.

"Of his Majesty's kind disposition towards them, they had
received not only professions but proofs. Hence they became
inspired not only with gratitude, but with confidence in his
friendship. Impelled by this confidence, and a particular
concurrence of exigencies already explained to your
Excellency, they drew the bills in question. The issue of
this measure will be highly critical, and followed by a train
of consequences very important and extensive. The single
circumstance of your Excellency having permitted me to accept
the first of these bills, will be considered by our enemies
as an unfortunate omen. By predicting from it further aids,
their ideas of the resources of Spain, and the resistance of
America will naturally be raised, and their hopes of subduing
the one, or reducing the power of the other, will naturally
be diminished. They will impute these aids to a plan of the
House of Bourbon, wisely concerted and firmly persisted in,
to secure themselves and all Europe against the ambition of
Britain, by completing the division of her empire, and they
will cease to flatter themselves, that America thus aided
will become destitute of resources to carry on the war. On
the other hand, America will derive fresh vigor from this
mark of friendship, and their attachment to his Majesty
become proportionably more strong. By mutual good offices,
friendship between nations, as between individuals, is only
to be established; and it is always a happy circumstance when
it subsists between those, whom nature has placed contiguous
to each other. But your Excellency's time is of too great
importance to be engaged by such obvious reflections.

"Permit me, Sir, still to indulge the pleasing expectation of
being enabled to inform Congress, that his Majesty's
magnanimity and friendship have prompted him, though
inconvenient to his own affairs, to secure the credit of
their bills; and I am persuaded that the benevolence of your
Excellency's disposition will be gratified in being
instrumental in a measure, which would make such agreeable
impressions on the hearts and minds of so great a number of
steadfast friends to the Spanish monarchy.

"I have the honor to be, Sir, &c.

JOHN JAY."

As this letter was, among other things, designed to establish the expectations and encouragement given me by the Minister, as to money, in the last conference, by obliging him either to deny them against truth, or admit them, at least, by his silence, I desired Mr Carmichael to deliver it with his own hands, which he accordingly did. It still remains unanswered.

Your Excellency will be at no loss to perceive, that this was an improper season for pushing on the treaty, and that it would not have been prudent to have given poignancy to the Minister's feelings for the loss of his frigates, and the trouble of our bills, by disputes about the Mississippi, &c. &c. I therefore did not remind him of the notes he had promised, nor indeed say anything at all about the matter.

About this time I met with a printed copy of an act of the State of Connecticut, reciting and adopting the resolutions of Congress of the 18th of March last, respecting the former and new paper emissions. This was the first advice I had of those resolutions. The promise of annual interest in Europe appeared to me to be a hardy measure, though, in my opinion, the weakest side of the plan.

Finding the Minister's heart and imagination much attached to his favorite idea of getting American frigates at the expense of the United States, I gave him the following hint.

"Madrid, June 28th, 1780.

"Sir,

"I have the honor of transmitting to your Excellency,
herewith enclosed, a copy of an act of the State of
Connecticut, just come to hand, in which are recited certain
resolutions of Congress, passed the 18th of March last.

"These resolutions are calculated to put the American
finances on a permanent footing. They direct, among other
things, that bills be issued, redeemable in specie, with
interest, at the expiration of six years. The interest to be
paid at the redemption of the bills, or at the election of
the holder annually, at the American Loan Offices, in
sterling bills of exchange on the commissioners in Europe.

"Your Excellency will perceive, that when this plan, so well
concerted, shall be fully executed, it will furnish the
United States with resources equal to all the exigencies of
the war, and probably enable them to supply his Catholic
Majesty with vessels, &c, &c.

"I take the liberty, therefore, of submitting to your
Excellency's consideration, whether it would not be for the
benefit of both nations, that his Majesty, on the one hand,
should engage his responsibility for the credit of a certain
proportion of the sum so to be emitted; and that the United
States, on the other hand, should not only pledge their faith
to indemnify his Majesty, but also furnish him with certain
aids in vessels, &c.

"If your Excellency should think this hint worthy of your
attention, it will be easy to improve it, and adjust the
particulars.

"I have the honor to be, &c.

JOHN JAY."

This letter was accompanied with the following one, on the subject of some more bills that had just arrived.

"Mr Jay presents his respectful compliments to his Excellency
the Count de Florida Blanca, and has the honor of informing
him, that he has been called upon to accept bills to the
amount of between ten and eleven thousand dollars; that the
far greater part of them belong to Messrs Joyce of this city,
who have agreed to wait for an answer until Monday next.

"Mr Jay exceedingly regrets his being obliged to give his
Excellency so much trouble, but still flatters himself, that,
when his Excellency considers it as his duty which imposes
that necessity upon him, his goodness will excuse it.

_Madrid, June 28th, 1780._"

I ought also to add, that I had sent to the Count a representation on the subject of a very high handed stretch of power in the Governor of Teneriffe, towards a prize carried there by some Americans. On the next day I received the following answer to these three papers.

Translation.

"Aranjues, June 29th, 1780.

"The Count de Florida Blanca has had the honor of the three
last letters, which Mr Jay has been pleased to write him.

"The first relates to a privateer detained in the Canaries.
On this point he can say nothing until he has obtained some
further information thereon.

"The second respects some new bills of exchange just
presented by Messrs Joyce, to the amount of between ten and
eleven thousand dollars. The Count can give no positive
answer hereon, without first taking the orders of the King,
his master, and having a meeting with the other Ministers,
and some of these having already gone to Madrid, a
determination cannot be immediately had, which renders it
necessary for Mr Jay to require Messrs Joyce to wait some
days longer for the answer in question.

"The third contains a project of an arrangement, by which his
Majesty should oblige himself for his responsibility for
certain sums in favor of Congress, and they, on their part,
for the indemnification of the said sums at a certain period,
by furnishing some vessels, &c. Mr Jay is therefore entreated
to draw out a more clear and precise plan on this subject,
noting therein the sum to which the responsibility of the
King should extend, and on which they may converse at their
first interview.

"In the meanwhile the Count has the honor of assuring him of
the sincerity of his esteem and attachment."

Congress will observe, that the Minister still kept up the idea of an interference in favor of these bills. On the 3d of July, the Count having removed to Madrid, he wrote me a note expressing the same idea. It is in these words

Translation.

"The Count de Florida Blanca presents his compliments to Mr
Jay, and prays to be informed when the last bills of
exchange, which he mentioned the other day as being in the
hands of Messrs Joyce, and amounting to about ten or eleven
thousand dollars, will become payable. At the Palace, 3d of
July, 1780."

Thus things were apparently in good train, when the news of the loss of Charleston became credible. The effect of it was as visible the next day, as that of a hard night's frost on young leaves.

I requested a conference with the Minister, and had one on the evening of the 5th of July. The following are notes of it.

Madrid, July 5th, 1780.

Mr Jay waited on the Count de Florida Blanca agreeably to an
appointment made by the latter to meet at his house at half
past eight this evening.

After the usual compliments, the bad news relative to the
surrender of Charleston, just received, became the topic of
conversation. The Count mentioned the channels through which
he had received it, viz. by an express despatched by the
Spanish Ambassador at Lisbon, in consequence of intelligence
which Governor Johnson had received and published in that
city, and by letters from the Count d'Aranda, with the
accounts printed at London of the affair. He expressed his
sorrow on the occasion, but observed, that the Count d'Aranda
flattered him, that the arrival of the Chevalier de Ternay in
that part of the world would totally change the face of
affairs, particularly as there would be eight vessels of the
line, and more than five thousand troops instead of three
thousand, and three vessels of the line which he had been
informed were demanded by General Washington.

He seemed to think it strange, that the place had not been
better defended, and that more vigorous measures had not
been taken to impede the enemy's progress, and observed, that
if the town was not in a condition to stand a siege, it would
have been better to have withdrawn the troops and stores, and
reserved them for the defence of the country. Mr Jay replied,
that probably when all circumstances relative to this affair
were known, there might be reasons which would account for
the conduct of the Americans on this occasion; to the truth
of which remark the Count appeared to assent. He then
mentioned the death of M. Mirales, and regretted his loss at
this time. He said, he had recommended to his Majesty a
person to succeed him, whom we knew, that spoke English, whom
he expected soon, and to whom he would explain his ideas on
the subject of the bills, and on other matters, touching
which Mr Jay had written to him, and who would confer also
with Mr Jay on those subjects.

Mr Jay mentioned, that if it was agreeable to his Excellency
to permit M. Del Campo (a confidential secretary of the
Count, who speaks English, and who translated all the letters
to and from the Count) to be present, he should be able to
explain his sentiments more fully and clearly. Though the
Count did not object to this proposal, he appeared
disinclined to it, and said, that with the assistance of Mr
Carmichael, then present, they could understand each other
very well.

He then proceeded to speak of the bills of exchange in the
possession of the Messrs Joyce, and seemed to be surprised
that that House should be possessed of so many of them. He
advised Mr Jay to be cautious of those gentlemen, saying,
that they were as much English in their hearts as the
Ministry of that country; that he had known them long, that
he thought their conduct extraordinary in being so urgent
for the acceptance of these bills. Mr Jay then informed his
Excellency, that he had paid those gentlemen a visit in order
to obtain further time, and that they had consented to wait
until Monday next. The Count mentioned a fortnight or three
weeks as necessary, in order that he might have an
opportunity of seeing the person he had sent for, and making
some arrangements with him. He said, that it would be more
agreeable to his Majesty to pay those bills at Cadiz, Bilboa,
or Amsterdam, than here; lamented the precipitancy with which
Congress had entered into this measure, saying, that if they
had previously addressed the King on the subject, ways and
means might have been found, either to transport from their
possessions in America specie for the service of Congress, or
to have enabled them to have drawn bills of exchange at a
shorter sight, which would have prevented the loss of one
third of the money to which Congress had subjected
themselves, by the terms on which the present bills were
sold. Mr Jay assured his Excellency, that by letters he had
received from America, from members of Congress and others,
he was informed, that the terms were judged so unfavorable to
the buyers, that the bills drawn on him sold heavily from
that circumstance solely, and not from any doubt of their
credit and payment.

This did not, however, appear to convince his Excellency, who
spoke much of the deranged state of our finances and credit;
of the advantages taken of Congress by merchants and others,
who availed themselves of that circumstance, which he called
cruel extortions, frequently expressing the King's wishes and
his own to render America all the service in their power in
this crisis of their affairs; but observed, that it was
impossible to obtain much money in Europe while France,
England, and Spain, were making use of every resource to
obtain it for the enormous expenses of the war, and while the
channel through which the European merchants received
supplies of specie was stopped, viz. the arrival of the usual
quantity from America. This induced him to mention the
arrival at Cadiz of three millions of piastres, all of which
was on account of the merchants, and again to dwell on what
he had before said of the possibility of transmitting specie
to the States from the Spanish possessions abroad, and of the
effect that this would have in re-establishing the credit of
our money. Mr Jay observed in reply, that if a supply of
specie could be sent to America, and his Excellency thought
that measure more convenient and advisable than bills, the
Congress would, in his opinion, readily suspend drawing, on
receiving that information; to which the Count answered, that
when the person he had sent for arrived, this matter might be
further discussed.

Mr Jay then proceeded to observe, that by papers which he had
transmitted to his Excellency, he would see that Congress had
adopted a system to redeem and destroy the former emissions,
and to emit other bills to be paid in Europe with interest in
a certain term of years, and in fully establishing this
system, it would be probably in their power, not only to
sustain the credit of their money, but to contribute, in some
measure, to assist Spain in the way proposed by his
Excellency, viz. in building of frigates, &c. &c. He added,
that as his Majesty's treasure was detained in America, and
as much expense would be incurred by the armaments employed
by Spain there, that bills on the Havana in favor of the
United States might be more convenient to Spain, and equally
contribute to the end proposed. The Count did not seem to
disapprove of the idea, but did not enlarge upon it. He asked
Mr Jay, if America could not furnish Spain with masts and
ship timber. Mr Jay replied, that those articles might be
obtained there. The Count then said that he would defer
further remarks on this head, till the arrival of the person
whom he expected would succeed M. Mirales, and appeared
desirous of leaving this subject, and, indeed, all other
matters relative to American affairs to be discussed when he
came.

In the further course of conversation, he recurred to the
subject of the bills in question, and told Mr Jay if an
immediate acceptance of them was insisted on, that he might
accept them payable at Bilboa, but rather seemed to wish that
their acceptance might be delayed till the coming of the
abovementioned person. Mr Jay expatiated on the impression,
which the acceptance of these bills and every other mark of
friendship would make in America at this particular crisis,
and the Count, in a very feeling and warm manner, assured him
that his desire to serve the States increased in consequence
of their distresses. By his whole conversation he endeavored
to show how much he interested himself in the prosperity of
our affairs, more than once desiring Mr Jay not to be
discouraged, for that with time and patience all would go
well, expatiating on the King's character, his religious
observation of, and adherence to his promises, and his own
desire of having Mr Jay's entire confidence. Mr Jay seized
this opportunity of assuring him of his full reliance on the
King's justice and honor, and his particular and entire
confidence in his Excellency, asserting to him that all his
letters to Congress breathed these sentiments. The Count
appeared much pleased with this declaration, and, seeming to
speak without reserve, hinted his hopes that the combined
fleets would soon be in condition to give the law to that of
England in the seas of Europe, repeating that measures would
be taken, on the arrival of the person expected, to provide
for the payment of the bills of exchange, and that other
arrangements would be made with the same person, which would
contribute to relieve, as much as it was in his Majesty's
power, the present distresses of America, of which he
frequently spoke very feelingly in the course of this
conversation.

Mr Jay reminded his Excellency, in a delicate manner, of the
supplies of clothing, &c. &c. which had been promised in a
former conference, and said that if they could be sent in
autumn, they would be essentially useful. The Count assured
him that measures would be taken for this purpose, with the
person so often hinted at in the course of the conference;
that probably these goods would be embarked from Bilboa, as
everything was so dear at Cadiz. He also once more told Mr
Jay, that at all events he might accept the bills presented
by Messrs Joyce, payable at Bilboa, though he appeared to
wish that this measure might be delayed for a fortnight if
possible. The conference ended with compliments and
assurances on the one part and the other, the Count
endeavoring to persuade Mr Jay of his Majesty's desire to
assist the States, and Mr Jay assuring him of his reliance on
his Excellency, and of the good effects which such proofs of
his Majesty's friendship would have in America at the present
juncture.

In this conference not a single nail would drive. Everything was to be postponed till the arrival of the person intended to succeed M. Mirales.

On the 11th of July I wrote the Count the following note.

"Mr Jay presents his respectful compliments to his Excellency
the Count de Florida Blanca, and has the honor of informing
him, that Don Carlos Maria Maraci of this place has presented
to him, for acceptance, bills amounting in the whole to one
thousand six hundred and sixtyfive dollars. The Messrs Joyce
consent to having their bills payable at Bilboa, but have
acquainted Mr Jay that the name of the House there, by whom
they are to be paid, should accompany the acceptance of the
bills, it being necessary to their further negotiation.

"_Madrid, July 11th, 1780._"

To this note the following answer was returned.

Translation.

"In answer to the note the Count de Florida Blanca has just
received from Mr Jay, dated yesterday, he has the honor to
acquaint him, that he intends writing to Bilboa on the
subject of the bills in the hands of Messrs Joyce, and which
are to be accepted, so that it will be necessary to wait some
days to fix the House at which the acceptance will be made.

"As to the bills presented by Don Carlos Maraci to the value
of one thousand six hundred and sixtyfive dollars, the Count
recommends to Mr Jay to request, in like manner, a delay of
fifteen days for their acceptance, this time being necessary,
that the Count may have an interview with a person not at
present in Madrid.

"_At the Palace, July 12th, 1780._"

I was obliged to wait with patience, and endeavor to keep the holders of the bills from returning them, noted for non-acceptance. The Count went to St Ildefonso; the time limited for the arrival of the person expected having expired, I wrote the Count three notes on the subject of the bills, and in one requested his permission for Mr Harrison of Maryland to remain at Cadiz, from whence he was threatened to be removed in pursuance of the King's ordinance against Irishmen. To these I received the following answer, dated the 29th of July.

Translation.

"The Count de Florida Blanca presents his compliments to Mr
Jay, and acquaints him that he has duly received his three
last letters.

"For the satisfaction of Mr Jay, orders shall be given for Mr
Harrison to remain at Cadiz, the general regulations
established by the King notwithstanding.

"On the subject of the acceptance of the bills of exchange,
the Count can only say that he still waits for the person in
question, who has informed him that he was on the point of
setting out on his journey.

"He is moreover very sensible of the attention in
communicating to him the last advices received respecting the
affair of Charleston, and persuades himself that Mr Jay will
always observe the same complaisance.

"_Saturday, July 29th._"

I immediately wrote him a letter of thanks for his civility to Mr Harrison, and nothing further passed between us till the 11th of August, when I sent him the following note.

"Mr Jay presents his respectful compliments to his Excellency
the Count de Florida Blanca, and has the honor of informing
him, that since the date of his last, bills to the amount of
six thousand and six hundred dollars have been presented to
him for acceptance. Mr Jay has prevailed on the holders of
these bills to wait six or eight days for his answer, on a
promise that the time for their payment, if accepted, shall
be computed from the day on which they were presented.

"_Madrid, August 11th, 1780._"

To this was written the following answer.

Translation.

"The Count de Florida Blanca has just received Mr Jay's note
of yesterday, on the subject of the new bills, which have
been presented to him. He is mortified not to be able to
return a positive answer today, respecting the acceptance of
said bills, and must repeat, that he still waits for the
person of whom mention has been made in preceding notes.

"_St Ildefonso, August 12th, 1780._"

Mrs Jay's illness, and the death of a child, detaining me at Madrid, I requested the Count to give me notice when it would be necessary I should wait upon him, and in the mean time Mr Carmichael went to St Ildefonso.

Congress will be pleased to remember, that in the conference of July 5th, the Minister, speaking of the person intended to succeed M. Mirales, said that he spoke English, and that we knew him. I supposed, that he alluded to one of the Gardoquis, three of whom speak English, and I was well acquainted with one of them. But as another of them had been heretofore employed by the Court, it appeared most probable that he was the person meant. They are brothers and have a strong family likeness.

On the 10th, Mr Carmichael wrote me, that he had seen the Count, and was informed by him, that the person so long expected had not yet arrived, and when he did he would give notice of it. On the 12th he wrote me that a person had arrived, whom he suspected to be the one so long expected. It seems that a person much resembling the Gardoqui family had arrived at the same inn where Mr Carmichael lodged, and was seen by him.

The holders of the bills becoming extremely uneasy, I wrote the Count the following reply to his last note.

"Madrid, August 16th, 1780.

"Sir,

"The letter, which your Excellency did me the honor to write
on the 12th instant, was delivered to me yesterday.

"The kind concern you are pleased to express for the delay,
which suspends my receiving a positive answer respecting the
bills, demands my acknowledgments, and is an additional proof
of that generous sensibility, which induced your Excellency
to tell me, that your friendship for America should rise with
her distresses. A sentiment so evincive of magnanimity will
be received by Congress with all the admiration and gratitude
it merits, and will not cease to inspire me with that
confidence in your Excellency, which greatness of mind seldom
fails to excite.

"I ought to mention, that the holders of the bills here begin
to grow impatient, and frequently repeat their applications
to me for acceptance.

"With sentiments of great respect and regard, I have the
honor to be, &c.

JOHN JAY."

No answer.

The next day I received a card from the house of Joyce, informing me of their having received peremptory orders to return their bills, and that they could not delay it longer than the next post. Of this I sent a copy to the Count without any observations.

No answer.

On the 18th of August, I wrote the Count the following letter.

"Madrid, August 18th, 1780.

"Sir,

"I never find myself more disagreeably circumstanced, than
when my duty constrains me to be troublesome to those, whom I
wish to afford only pleasure and satisfaction. Such is my
present situation. Monday next I perceive is to be a critical
day. Other bills besides Messrs Joyce are then to be
re-presented.

"M. Gardoqui of Bilboa writes me, that he has received bills
on me for thirteen thousand three hundred and thirtyfive
dollars, with orders immediately to ship the amount in goods
to America. They will be presented tomorrow, and he expects
an answer by Monday's post. If an immediate acceptance or
refusal should be insisted on by any one of them, a protest
must ensue, and American credit be reduced to the lowest ebb.
What am I to do? If your Excellency should direct me to
accept these bills payable at Bilboa, they will, as before,
demand at what House they are to be paid.

"I must entreat your Excellency to relieve me and my country
from this painful situation, and to pardon the trouble I am
obliged to give you.

"With great respect and esteem, I have the honor to be, &c.

JOHN JAY."

"_P. S._ The enclosed contains intelligence from America."

No answer.

Having first visited the holders of the bills, and obtained further time till Monday next, on the 24th I set out for St Ildefonso. I arrived the next day, and wrote the Count the following letter.

"St Ildefonso, August 25th, 1780.

"Sir,

"I arrived here this morning, but was prevented from
immediately doing myself the honor of paying my respects to
your Excellency, by fatigue and indisposition.