Chapter XXXII: Book 2: ; excerpts from a statement by Herr Von Neurath to the

representatives of the German press on 30 September 1932, in Document Number Neurath-45 of Document Book 2; an excerpt from a letter of the defendant to the President of the Disarmament Conference, Number Neurath-43 of Document Book 2; and finally, I should like to refer to a speech by the German representative at the Disarmament Conference in Geneva, which is Number Neurath-39 in my document book which shows the development of the views and attitude of the defendant, and thereby that of German policy, toward the disarmament negotiations which were resumed on the 16th at the Disarmament Conference.

Herr Von Neurath, in the documents submitted above you emphasize that the disarmament question must be solved exclusively by peaceful means, and that no violence of any kind should be used. Did this tendency, as expressed here, actually correspond to your conviction, and did it represent the guiding principle, and indeed the exclusive guiding principle, of your policy?

VON NEURATH: Yes. During the whole period when I was Reich Foreign Minister no means were used which were not internationally customary and permissible.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: On the 16th the negotiations in the Disarmament Conference were to begin again. What was the result of this meeting of the Disarmament Conference?

VON NEURATH: England finally suggested a—at first the Disarmament Conference accomplished nothing; but later there resulted the so-called Five-Power Declaration in December 1932, which had been suggested by England. This declaration recognized Germany’s claim to equal rights and to the elimination of those provisions of the Versailles Treaty which discriminated against Germany.

After this declaration, which was made by the war powers and later by the Disarmament Conference or the Council of the League of Nations itself, Germany’s equal rights were recognized for all time. Therefore, Germany could assert her right to renounce Part V of the Versailles Treaty by referring to the obligation of general disarmament undertaken by the signatory powers. This Five-Power Declaration provided the necessary condition for Germany’s taking part in the deliberations of the Disarmament Conference once more.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I should like to refer to the text of the Five-Power Declaration of 11 December 1932. It is Number Neurath-47a in my Document Book 2. I should also like to refer to an article by the defendant in the _Heimatdienst_ on this recognition of equal rights for Germany. The text is in Number Neurath-48 of my Document Book 2. That was prior to the seizure of power.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Now, in January 1933 Hitler was appointed Reich Chancellor; and thus there came about the so-called seizure of power by the NSDAP. Did you participate in any form whatsoever in this seizure of power and in Hitler’s appointment as Reich Chancellor?

VON NEURATH: No, I had no part in any stage of the negotiations regarding the appointment of Hitler as Reich Chancellor. No one, not even the Reich President, and certainly no party leader, asked me for my opinion. I had no close relations with any of the party leaders, especially not with the leaders of the National Socialist Party. With regard to this Göring and Papen have testified with absolute correctness.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What feelings did you yourself have on this question of Hitler’s appointment as Reich Chancellor, in other words, on the question of the seizure of power by the Party?

VON NEURATH: I had serious misgivings, but, as I said at the beginning, in view of the party situation and the impossibility of forming a government against the National Socialists I saw no other possibility unless one wanted to start a civil war, about the outcome of which there could be no doubt in view of the overwhelming number of Hitler’s followers.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: In view of your attitude as you have just expressed it, for what reason did you remain Reich Foreign Minister in the newly-formed Hitler Government?

VON NEURATH: At the urgent desire of Hindenburg.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like in this connection to refer to the affidavit of Baroness Ritter, Number Neurath-3 in my Document Book 1, which has already been mentioned, and with the permission of the Court I should like to read a short passage from it:

“When in 1933 a new Government was formed, with Hitler as Reich
Chancellor, Hindenburg required from Hitler the condition that
Neurath should remain as Foreign Minister. Accordingly
Hindenburg asked Neurath to stay, and Neurath complied with
Hindenburg’s wish in accordance with his previous promise. I
know that in the course of time Neurath frequently had serious
misgivings, but that he was of the opinion that it was his
patriotic duty to remain.

“In this connection I recall the especially fitting comparison
of a large rock which by its position right in the middle of the
river can decrease the force of the raging current, while on the
shore it would remain without influence. He frequently declared,
‘When the Germans often wonder why I am co-operating with this
Government, they are always thinking only of the prevailing
deficiencies, without appreciating how much additional disaster
I am still able to prevent. They forget what strength it takes
to advance alone through the wall of “Myrmidons”....’”

By that Baroness von Ritter means the close circle surrounding Hitler—to advance through this to Hitler.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Do you know for what reasons Hindenburg wanted you to remain, that is, to enter Hitler’s Cabinet as Foreign Minister?

VON NEURATH: To secure the continuation of a peaceful foreign policy, and to prevent Hitler from taking the rash steps which were so possible in view of his impulsive nature; in one word, to act as a brake.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Did not Hindenburg make it an actual condition for Hitler’s appointment as Reich Chancellor that you should remain as Foreign Minister, that is, enter Hitler’s Cabinet?

VON NEURATH: Yes, he told me so later.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: In this connection, I should like to refer to the affidavit of former Ambassador Curt Prüfer, Number Neurath-4 in my document book, and I should like to read a short excerpt from it: “Since Hindenburg was a conservative, his basic political attitude....”

THE PRESIDENT: What page is that?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Page 27, Exhibit Number 4.

“Since Hindenburg was a conservative, his political attitude was
probably about the same as that of Baron Neurath. There was no
doubt in the mind of anybody who was even slightly aware of the
conditions that Hindenburg himself, in vesting power in Hitler,
did this reluctantly and only under the heavy pressure of
domestic political developments. If under such circumstances he
insisted, and actually made it a condition, that Baron Neurath,
his former foreign political adviser, should remain in office,
this undoubtedly was due to the fact that he wanted to assure
himself of at least one steady pillar for foreign policy, that
is, for peace, in the midst of the seething new forces which
certainly appeared sinister and displeasing to him personally.”

Did you talk to Hindenburg about this, and did you tell him of your reluctance, your misgivings, about joining the Hitler Cabinet?

VON NEURATH: Yes, I did not leave him in any doubt about that.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What did Hindenburg answer?

VON NEURATH: He told me that I would have to make this sacrifice, else he would no longer have a single quiet hour; that Hitler had not yet had any experience whatsoever in matters of foreign policy.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Was it only then and for this reason that you decided to join Hitler’s Cabinet?

VON NEURATH: Yes. The British prosecutor, Sir David, in the session of 1 March of this year, declared that by joining Hitler’s Cabinet I had sold my honor and reputation. I refrain from commenting further on this most serious insult.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I should like in this connection to quote a sentence from the _Diary of Ambassador Dodd 1933-37_ which is Number Neurath-13 in my document book. I should like to quote the entry under 6 April 1934, on Page 100; that is Page 55 of the German text, which reads as follows. It is a remark of Dodd’s which refers to Herr Von Neurath:

“I am sorry for these clear-headed Germans who know world
affairs very well and who must work for their country and yet
submit to the ignorance and autocracy of Hitler and his
followers.”

In these talks with Hindenburg did you promise him that you would remain in the Cabinet as long as it would be at all possible for you to guide the foreign political course in a peaceful direction and avoid warlike developments, even if at some future time Hindenburg should die?

VON NEURATH: Yes. He repeatedly expressed that wish to me.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: This was, no doubt, the reason why you remained in office after the death of Hindenburg?

VON NEURATH: Yes. But also because in the meantime I had discovered that Hitler, because of his excitable temperament, often let himself be carried away to take rash steps and in this way could endanger peace. On many occasions, however, I had also learned by experience that in such cases he would listen to my objections.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: The Prosecution, as you are aware, has particularly charged you with entering and remaining in Hitler’s Cabinet as Foreign Minister, above all, with remaining in the Cabinet after Hindenburg’s death.

VON NEURATH: How they can reproach me for that is completely inexplicable to me. I never belonged to a party; I never swore allegiance to party programs, and I never swore any allegiance to party leaders either. I served under the Imperial Government, was asked to re-enter the diplomatic service by the Socialist Government under Ebert, and was appointed Minister and Ambassador by it. I have served under Democratic, Liberal, and Conservative governments. Without identifying myself with their various programs, and often in opposition to the party government of the time, I have pursued only the interests of my fatherland in co-operation with the other powers.

There was no reason for me not to attempt to do the same under Hitler and the National Socialist Party. One could put opposition opinions into effect with any prospect of success only from the inside as a member of the Government. Freedom of speech and the use of the press were forbidden in Germany, or at least made difficult. Personal freedom was endangered. Moreover, it is not greatly different in other countries; I mean by that participation in the governments of various parties, and I might cite the example of Reynaud, or of Lord Vansittart, whom I know well and who was in the English Foreign Office as an influential State Secretary under conservative as well as labor governments.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: But, after 30 June 1934 and the bloody events of that time, why did you still remain in the Government? Why did you not resign at that time? You know that the Prosecution has reproached other defendants with remaining in the Government under these circumstances.

VON NEURATH: Aside from the fact that from the description which Hitler gave of the events of the Röhm Putsch at that time I had to conclude that it had been a serious revolt, I have known a number of revolutions from my own experience, for example, the Russian revolution and, as I already said, the Fascist revolution in Rome, and I have seen that in such revolutions innocent people very often have to suffer. In addition I adapted myself entirely to Hindenburg’s attitude; even if I had wanted to resign he would never have let me do so.

As an illustration that I had to acknowledge the seriousness of this revolt and the truth of Hitler’s description of it, I should like to mention briefly that on this day, 30 June, a brother of the Emperor of Japan was in Berlin and I had to invite him to dinner. Generaloberst Von Fritsch was also present at this dinner and a number of other high officers and officials of the Foreign Office. The Prince did not make his appearance at the dinner; that is, he came an hour late. When I asked for the reason I learned that my house had also been surrounded by the SA and the Prince had been prevented by them from entering my house. A few days later Generaloberst Von Fritsch, after he had described the events on the military side, asked me whether I knew that he himself, and I as well, had been on Herr Röhm’s list. Thus this revolt was not quite as harmless as was described here, I believe, by the witness Gisevius.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Before you decided to enter the Hitler Cabinet, did you talk to Hitler himself about the principles and the line of foreign policy which you intended to pursue?

VON NEURATH: Yes, in detail. I explained to him that only by way of negotiation and by a policy conforming to the international situation could we achieve our ends. This would demand patience. Hitler seemed to understand this at the time, and I had the same impression during the following years, too. I am convinced that he at that time entirely approved the continuation of this policy and honestly meant it. He repeatedly emphasized that he knew what war was like and did not want to experience another one.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like once more to refer to the affidavit of Ambassador Prüfer, Number Neurath-4 in my Document Book 1, and, with the permission of the Court I should like to quote the following:

“Neurath’s policy was one of international understanding and
peace....”—That is Page 29—“This policy was not consistent
with the fact that Herr Von Neurath also strove for a revision
of the severe provisions of the Versailles Treaty. However, he
wanted to bring this about exclusively by negotiation, in no
case by force.”

Then on the same page...

THE PRESIDENT: Have you not read this already?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Yes. I want now to read a passage following this:

“I am certain that Freiherr von Neurath, as well as other career
officials in the Foreign Office, had no concrete knowledge of
any possible plans for violence on Hitler’s part. On the
contrary, during the first years after the change of government
one generally lent credence to the oft-repeated declaration of
peaceful intentions by the National Socialist leaders. I am even
of the opinion that the latter themselves, during the first
years, did not want to bring about a war. Rather was it believed
and hoped in the highest circles of the Party, to which Neurath
did not belong at all, that it would be possible to continue
winning cheap laurels without war through the hitherto
successfully practiced tactics of bluff and sudden surprise. It
was not until later that the megalomania arising from the belief
in their own luck and their own infallibility and invincibility,
which had assumed mystic proportions caused by unrestrained
sycophancy, led Hitler and his immediate entourage to include
war among their instruments of political power. We, the
officials of the foreign service, and with us Baron von Neurath,
our chief, became aware of this development only gradually and
as outsiders. Until about the beginning of 1936 only a very few
officials had been admitted into the Party which, for its part,
treated the staff of the Foreign Office, including the recently
admitted members, with suspicion and distrust.”

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, is this not really all argument? You are reading at great length.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I have already finished, Mr. President.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Did you yourself see in the Party program of the National Socialists any intention or desire to break with other powers?

VON NEURATH: No. Contrary to the allegations of the Prosecution, which do not gain in accuracy by repetition, I cannot possibly detect any intention to resort to armed hostilities in the event of failure to reach these aims, and from Hitler’s various statements I know that he himself at that time, that is, at the beginning of his term of Government, had no such intentions. He wanted as close an understanding as possible with England, and a stable, peaceful relationship with France, which would remove the ancient enmity of the two peoples. The latter, he told me, was the special reason for his publicly declaring after the Saar plebiscite that he was renouncing once and for all any attempts to regain Alsace.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: The Prosecution charges in particular that from the following sentences of the Party program you must have known that the Nazis were pursuing aggressive foreign political ends and that they thus were aiming at war from the very beginning. It reads:

“We demand the union of all Germans in a Greater Germany on the
basis of the right of nations to self-determination. We demand
equal rights for the German people in respect to other nations,
the repeal of the Treaty of Versailles, and the Treaty of St.
Germain.”

Will you please comment on this?

VON NEURATH: Even today I fail to detect any aggressive spirit in these sentences which have just been quoted. The right of self-determination is a basic condition in the modern state, recognized by international law. It was also the basis, theoretically at least, of the Treaty of Versailles, and on the same basis the plebiscites were carried out in the border areas. The union of all Germans on the basis of this recognized principle was therefore an absolutely permissible political postulate, as far as international law and foreign policy are concerned.

The removal of the discriminatory terms of the Treaty of Versailles by changing the terms of the Treaty was the essential aim of German foreign policy, as also of all bourgeois and Social Democrat governments which preceded the National Socialists. I cannot see how one can deduce any aggressive intention if a people strives to free itself from the burdens of a treaty which it feels to be unjust, provided that this is done by peaceful means.

And I should like to add that this was the foreign policy which I represented until the moment, at the end of 1937, when I had to realize that Hitler was also considering war a means in his policy. Before, as stated above, there had never been any mention of that.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What was the effect of Hitler’s seizure of power in Germany on foreign countries?

VON NEURATH: A perceptible tension and distrust of the new Government was the immediate result. The antagonism was unmistakable. It was especially clear to me at the World Economic Conference in 1933 in London, where I had an opportunity to talk to many old friends and members of other delegations and to inform myself definitely of this change of feeling. The practical effect of this feeling was greater caution in all negotiations, including the session of the Disarmament Conference which was just reopening.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I should like to refer in this connection to a letter which is Number Neurath-11 in my document book. It is a report by Herr Von Neurath to Reich President Von Hindenburg from the London Conference. It is dated 19 June 1933. I shall quote only a very short passage: “Unfortunately I have to state that the impressions I received here are most alarming.”

THE PRESIDENT: What page is that?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Page 47.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, go on.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: “In view of the reports of the chiefs of
our foreign missions I was prepared for many bad manifestations,
many gloomy events, and disturbing opinions on the part of
foreign countries. Nevertheless, despite all my apprehensions, I
had hopes that much of this would perhaps be only transitory,
that much could straighten itself out. However, my apprehensions
proved more justified than my hopes. I hardly recognized London
again. I found a mood there, first in the English world and then
in international circles, which showed a retrogression in the
political and psychological attitude toward Germany which cannot
be taken seriously enough.”

Now further negotiations were held in the main committee of the Disarmament Conference in the winter of 1933-34. Can you briefly describe the course of these negotiations? It is important in view of later events.

VON NEURATH: A French plan of 14 November 1932 was the basis of the negotiations at that time. This plan, surprisingly enough, provided for the transformation of professional armies into armies with a short period of service, for according to the opinion presented by the French representative at that time only armies with a short period of service could be considered defensive armies, while standing armies consisting of professional soldiers would have an offensive character.

This point of view on the part of France was completely new and was not only exactly the opposite of France’s previous point of view, but it was also a change from the provisions laid down in the Versailles Treaty for the disarmament of Germany. This meant for Germany—at whom it was obviously aimed—the elimination of its standing army of 100,000 men. In addition, by this new plan France let it be seen that she herself did not want to disarm. A statement by the French representative, Paul-Boncour, in the session of 8 February 1933 confirmed this.

France also maintained the same point of view in the subsequent discussions about the so-called working program presented by England on 30 January 1933 by means of which England wanted to speed up the negotiations of the conference. This attempt to expedite the negotiations, which aimed at adjusting the diverging tendencies of the various powers, failed because of the stubborn attitude of France. A change in the program was then made in an attempt to get over these difficulties, whereby the question of army strength was first discussed.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: In this connection I should like to submit, and ask the Court to take judicial notice of, Document Number 49 in my Document Book 2. It contains excerpts from the English working program of 30 January 1933, and also from my Documents Numbers 46 and 47, which are likewise in Document Book 2. They contain excerpts from the French plan for the unification of continental European army systems. Finally, Number 47 of my Document Book 2 contains excerpts from the speech by Herr Von Neurath at the session of the League of Nations Assembly on 7 December 1932, which describes the negotiations up to that time.

What was the attitude of the Disarmament Conference on the question of the treatment of disarmament as such, that is, the reduction of army strength?

VON NEURATH: To discuss this I must refer to notes to a great extent, because it is not possible to keep all these details, motions, and formulations in one’s head. The subject matter goes into detail so much that I can only do it by means of notes.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, we have been the whole morning at this, and we haven’t yet really got up to 1933. The Tribunal thinks this is being done in far too great detail. As I have already pointed out, a great deal of it is an attempt to show that the Treaty of Versailles was unjust, which is irrelevant.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, if I may say the following, I do not wish to show the injustice of the Versailles Treaty; but I must...

THE PRESIDENT: Well, Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, will you kindly get on? As I say, we think you are going into it in far too great detail.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Very well.

What happened now, Herr Von Neurath, in order to get the negotiations going again? On 16 March the British Prime Minister submitted a new plan...

THE PRESIDENT: We have nothing to do with the disarmament program.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I must nevertheless show what the entire background and mood were, in order to explain more exactly the motives for our withdrawal from the League of Nations, with which we have been reproached; for Germany’s withdrawal followed in the fall of 1933...

THE PRESIDENT: There is nothing against Von Neurath in having influenced Germany to resign from the League of Nations, is there?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Yes, there is. I can explain the withdrawal from the League of Nations only on the basis of the preceding events. I cannot say in three words that this and that was the reason; rather must I explain how gradually a certain atmosphere came about, and what the circumstances were which left no other choice to the German Government except to leave the Disarmament Conference and the League of Nations, for these factors explain the decision of the German Government to rearm. In history and in politics decisions and actions are always the consequence of what went before them. In the development of these political conditions we are indeed concerned with a period of development extending over several years, not with a spontaneous event or a spontaneous decision. In the case of a military order, to be sure, I cannot say that this order came about through orders of the other side; rather must I describe...

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, we do not need all this argument. We only desire you to get on. I am pointing out to you that you have been nearly the whole of the morning, and we have not yet got up to 1933.

VON NEURATH: Mr. President, I shall try to be very brief in coming to this period of time, the withdrawal from the League of Nations and the Disarmament Conference.

The negotiations, as I said, dragged on the whole year, into the summer of 1933. In the fall there was again a Disarmament Conference session in which the same subject was more or less debated over again. Well, the result of this conference was that disarmament was definitely refused by the Western Powers and that was the reason why we then first of all withdrew from the Disarmament Conference, since we considered useful work there no longer possible. Following this, we also withdrew from the League of Nations, since we had witnessed its failure in the most widely different fields.

And so, quite briefly, that brings us up to the point which caused us to withdraw from the League of Nations. The reasons which caused us to do so at that time I have discussed explicitly in a speech which my defense counsel can perhaps submit.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What date do you mean, Herr Von Neurath?

VON NEURATH: October 1933—16 October, a speech to the foreign press. In this speech I said that the withdrawal from the Disarmament Conference and the League of Nations by no means meant that Germany refused to take part in any negotiations or discussions, especially with the Western Powers.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, this speech is the excerpt on Page 59 in my document book. Since it is essentially the same thing that Herr Von Neurath has just stated, except that it is in more detail, I am prepared to forego reading the actual excerpt, as I had intended to do.

In this connection I must call attention to the documents which I have submitted for this entire period of time which we have rather skipped over, so that they will at least provide a picture of how things had gradually come to a head by the middle of October. In this connection I should like to refer to Document Neurath-56, a speech by Herr Von Neurath to the foreign press; then Hitler’s appeal to the German people, Number Neurath-58; to the document just quoted, Number Neurath-59; to the German memorandum on the question of armament and equal rights of 18 December 1933, Document Neurath-61; Number Neurath-62, an interview with Herr Von Neurath by the Berlin representative of _The New York Times_ on 29 December 1933; the German answer to the French memorandum of 1 January 1934, Number Neurath-64 in my Document Book 3; the German memorandum of 13 March 1934, Number Neurath-67; the speech of the President of the Disarmament Conference, Sir Nevile Henderson, of 10 April 1934, Number Neurath-68; and finally, the _aide-mémoire_ of the Reich Government to the British Disarmament memorandum of 16 April, Number Neurath-69.

I have just been informed that I gave the wrong first name. That was Arthur Henderson.

[_Turning to the defendant._] In the middle of April 1934 a very important event occurred. Will you comment on this; for this declaration, this note, caused a complete _volte-face_, a change in European politics.

VON NEURATH: This was a French note which was addressed to the British Government as an answer to a British inquiry and to a German memorandum of 13 March 1934, which had dealt with the continuation of the negotiations. The details are contained in this speech to the Berlin press which has just been cited. With this French note, however, the efforts to come to a settlement in the disarmament question again failed because of the French Government’s “no.”

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like to refer to various documents on this, which I have submitted in my Document Book 3; Number Neurath-66, an excerpt from a speech by the Belgian Premier, Count Broqueville, of March 1934; an excerpt from the diary of Ambassador Dodd, Number Neurath-63; then Number Neurath-70, an excerpt from the note of the French Government, which was just mentioned, to the British Government on 17 April 1934; the speech of Foreign Minister Von Neurath, the defendant, to representatives of the Berlin press, in which he commented on this French note, Number Neurath-74 in my document book; finally, an excerpt from the speech of the American delegate at the Disarmament Conference, Norman Davis, of 29 May 1934. In these the sudden change in European politics which I have just alluded to...

THE PRESIDENT: Did you give the number of that?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: The last one, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Number Neurath-76.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes; go on.

VON NEURATH: I think that before I answer this question, I might perhaps comment on something else. The Prosecution showed me a speech by Hitler on 23 September 1939 to the commanders of the Army, in which he speaks of the political and organizational measures which preceded the war.

THE PRESIDENT: You say that was on 23 September?

VON NEURATH: 23 September 1939. The Prosecution sees in the mention of the withdrawal from the League of Nations and the Disarmament Conference a sign of aggressive intentions which were already in existence at that time, and reproaches me with this.

As I have repeatedly emphasized, up to 1937 there had never been any talk at any time of any aggressive intentions or preparations for a war of aggression. The speech mentioned by the Prosecution was made by Hitler 6 years after these events and 18 months after my resignation as Foreign Minister. It is clear that to a man like Hitler these events, at such a moment, after the victorious termination of the Polish war, appeared different from what they had actually been. These events, however, cannot be judged afterwards, that is, before the date of the speech, any more than German foreign policy can be judged today, but they must be regarded from the point of view prevailing at the time at which they took place.

And now in answer to your question: In my opinion the reasons lie, first of all, more or less in the fact that the course of the preceding diplomatic negotiations had shown that England and Italy no longer stood unconditionally behind France and were no longer willing to support France’s strictly antagonistic attitude toward the question of equal rights for Germany. The same point of view was held by the neutral states—Denmark, Spain, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland—in a note addressed to the Disarmament Conference on 14 April 1934. Therefore, at the time France apparently feared being isolated and thus falling into the danger of not being able to maintain her refusal to undergo any form of disarmament. I myself commented in detail on this attitude on the part of France, from the German point of view, in my afore-mentioned speech to the German press on 27 April 1934, I believe.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What were the further consequences of this French note of 17 April, as far as the attitude of French foreign policy was concerned?

VON NEURATH: Just a few days after this note the French Foreign Minister, M. Louis Barthou, undertook a trip to the East, to Warsaw and Prague. As was soon apparent, the purpose of this trip to Poland and Czechoslovakia was to prepare the ground for a resumption of diplomatic relations between these countries, and the other countries of the so-called “Little Entente,” and the Soviet Union and thus to smooth the way for the inclusion of Russia as a participant in European politics.

Barthou’s efforts were successful. Poland as well as Czechoslovakia and Romania resumed diplomatic relations with Russia. On a second trip Barthou was able to get the agreement of all the states of the Little Entente to the Eastern pact proposed by France and Russia.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Were not negotiations undertaken at the same time for an Eastern pact which later also proved to be an instrument directed against Germany?

VON NEURATH: Yes. I just mentioned it. An Eastern pact was worked out and presented which we would have accepted, as far as the basic principle was concerned, but which then came to naught because we were supposed to undertake obligations which we could not keep, namely an obligation to give aid in all cases of conflict which might arise among the Eastern nations. We were in no position to do this, and thus the Eastern pact came to naught.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: May I, in connection with the statements just made, refer to three documents in my Document Book 3; Number Neurath-72, an official communiqué on 24 April 1934 about the Warsaw discussions of the French Foreign Minister; Number Neurath-73, an official communiqué about the Prague discussions of the French Foreign Minister on 27 April 1934; and an excerpt from a speech of the French Foreign Minister of 30 May 1934, Number Neurath-77.

What was your further policy after the rather abrupt breaking-off of negotiations caused by this French note?

VON NEURATH: We tried first of all by means of negotiations with the individual powers to bring about permanent and real peace on the basis of the practical recognition of our equal rights and general understanding with all peoples. I had given the German missions abroad the task of carrying on talks to this effect with the respective governments.

In order to get negotiations going again, Hitler had decided to accept an invitation from Mussolini for a friendly talk in Venice. The purpose of this meeting, as Mussolini later said, was to attempt to disperse the clouds which were darkening the political horizon of Europe.

A few days after his return from Venice Hitler made an important speech in which he reaffirmed Germany’s desire for peace.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I should like in this connection to refer to my Document Number Neurath-80 in Document Book 3, which is an excerpt from this Hitler speech in Gera on 17 June 1934—only the part of interest from the foreign political point of view, of course.

Would you like to break off now, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, the Tribunal hopes that on Monday, when you continue, you will be able to deal in less detail with this political history, which, of course, is very well known to everyone who has lived through it, and particularly to the Tribunal who have heard it all gone into before here.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I shall endeavor to do so, Mr. President.

[_The Tribunal adjourned until 24 June 1946 at 1000 hours._]

ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SECOND DAY
Monday, 24 June 1946

_Morning Session_

[_The Defendant Von Neurath resumed the stand._]

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Herr Von Neurath, I have been told, and I also heard it on the radio, that yesterday apparently a mistake arose, possibly due to poor translation, regarding your activity from 1903 to 1914. Perhaps you can repeat it, for I believe that the Court also misunderstood your statement.

VON NEURATH: It probably concerns my stay in London. From 1903 to 1907 I was in London, and after that I was in the Foreign Office in Berlin.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Then we will continue the presentation of your policy as Foreign Minister. I should like to ask the following questions:

In the fact that during your period of office as Foreign Minister, in the spring of 1935, general rearmament was begun, compulsory military service was reintroduced, and the Luftwaffe was created, the Prosecution sees proof of your guilt in the alleged conspiracy against peace. Will you comment on this?

VON NEURATH: First, I should like to emphasize that there was no question of war plans in Germany in this year and in the following years. I am also perfectly convinced that at that time neither Hitler nor his entourage had any aggressive plans, or even considered any aggressive plans, for that would not have been possible without my knowing about it.

Rearmament as such involves no threat to peace unless it is decided to use the newly made weapons for purposes other than defense. There was no such decision and no such preparation at that time. The same charge of preparations for aggressive war could be held against all the neighboring states of Germany, who were rearming in precisely...

THE PRESIDENT: One moment. Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, this is argument, not evidence.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I must hear how things appeared to him. Decisions for action can only be excused if I explain...

THE PRESIDENT: No, we are not prepared to hear argument in the course of evidence. It is evidence for him to say that there were no plans made at that time for offensive action, but it is argument to say that rearmament does not necessarily involve offensive action. We do not desire to hear argument at this stage.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Yes.

Then please answer the question once more, whether there were in fact no plans to use the weapons created by rearmament for any aggressive purposes or for other violent action?

VON NEURATH: That is what I just said. I do not believe I need repeat it.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What reasons were there, what facts, which made the situation of Germany appear particularly perilous?

VON NEURATH: At that time Germany could not help feeling she was encircled by her highly armed neighbors. Russia and France had concluded a mutual assistance pact which could only be called a military alliance. It was immediately followed by a similar treaty between Russia and Czechoslovakia. According to her own statements, Russia had increased the peacetime strength of her army by more than half. How strong it actually was could not be ascertained. In France, under the leadership of Pétain, efforts were being made to strengthen the Army considerably. Already in 1934 Czechoslovakia had introduced 2-year military service. On 1 March 1935 France issued a new defense law, which also increased the period of military service. This whole development, which had come about in a few months, could only be considered as an immediate threat. Germany could no longer be a defenseless and inactive spectator. In view of these facts the decision which Hitler then made to reintroduce compulsory military service and gradually to build up an army of 36 divisions was not an act which seriously threatened the neighboring countries bound together by alliances.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, in this connection I should like to ask you to take judicial notice of the following documents in my document book:

Number 87, a document on the entry of the Soviet Union into the League of Nations of 18 September 1934, in Document Book 3. Number 89, also in Document Book 3, is a statement of the reporter of the Army Committee of the French Chamber, of 23 November 1931, on the entente with Russia. Number 91, in Document Book 3, is the Russian-French Protocol to the Eastern Pact negotiations of 5 December 1934.

M. DEBENEST: Mr. President, I should like to say that Document 89 has not been submitted to us as yet. Therefore, it has not been possible to examine this document and to say whether or not this document is relevant.

THE PRESIDENT: When you get the book you will have the right to object to the document, if necessary. Dr. Von Lüdinghausen is only telling us what documents he contends support the evidence which has just been given, that is all. He is offering these documents in evidence, and as soon as you get the book and can scrutinize the document, you will have the opportunity of making an objection to its admissibility.

M. DEBENEST: That is exactly the point, Mr. President. I wished to reserve for myself the right to do that.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we agree with you.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Then comes Document 92, in Document Book 3, the call to the Army made by the President of the Czechoslovakian Republic on 28 December 1934.

In Document Book 3, Number 96 is the French Government declaration of 15 March 1935.

In Document Book 3, Number 79 is a report of the Czech Minister in Paris, Osusky, of 15 June 1934.

Document 101 is the Franco-Russian Mutual Assistance Pact of 2 May 1935.

Document 94 is an excerpt from the speech of the French President, Flandin, to the French Chamber on 5 February 1935.

I ask you to take judicial notice of these documents.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Was Germany’s decision to rearm intended to mean that she would discontinue all further co-operation in international efforts to limit general rearmament?

VON NEURATH: No, by no means. An English inquiry as to whether Germany would be ready to continue to participate in general disarmament negotiations in the same manner and to the same extent as laid down in the so-called London Communiqué of February 1935 was immediately answered in the affirmative. On 18 March—that is, 2 days after the introduction of military service—the Embassy in London was instructed to resume negotiations and, in particular, to suggest an agreement to limit the strength of the Navy.

In May 1935 Hitler made a speech to the Reichstag, in which he expounded a concrete German plan for peace. He emphasized particularly the German will for peace, and again declared himself willing to co-operate in any system of international agreements for the maintenance of peace, even collective agreements. The only condition he made, and this he had always done, was the recognition of Germany’s equal rights. He also declared himself willing to rejoin the League of Nations. By so doing he wanted to prove that Germany, in spite of the conclusion of military alliances which she felt to be a threat, and our own rearmament, continued to desire peace.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I wish to ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of the following documents in my Document Book 3:

Number 95, answer of the Reich Government of 15 February 1935, to the so-called London Communiqué.

Number 97, an excerpt from the appeal of the Reich Government of 16 March 1935, for the reintroduction of the German military service.

Number 98 is the communiqué of 26 March 1935 on the talks of the British Foreign Minister, Sir John Simon, and the Lord Privy Seal, Mr. Eden, with the Reich Government.

Number 102 is the communiqué of 15 May 1935 on the speech of Foreign Minister Laval in Moscow.

Number 104, Hitler’s speech of 21 May 1935 on the Russian-French Pact.

Number 105, the note of the Reich Government of 25 May 1935 to the signatory powers of the Locarno Treaty.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Did the German efforts and willingness to negotiate have any success?

VON NEURATH: Yes; they led to the conclusion of the first and only agreement to limit armaments which was actually put into effect on the basis of the German proposals by the signing of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement in June 1935. Of course, I would have preferred it if the negotiations with all countries concerning proposals for armament limitation had been successful. Nevertheless, this agreement between only two states was warmly welcomed by us as the first step in this direction. We know that at least England held aloof from the decision of the League of Nations stating that Germany had broken the Versailles Treaty by rearming. The German step was thus recognized as justified.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: In this connection I should like to ask the Court to take judicial notice of two documents from my Document Book 3:

Document Number 106 is a statement by the First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir Bolton Eyres-Monsell, over the British radio on 19 June 1935.

The second is Document Number 119, an excerpt from the statement of the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty, Mr. Shakespeare, in the House of Commons on the occasion of the ratification of the London Naval Agreement on 20 July 1936.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Was German activity in the direction of disarmament limited to the German-English Naval Agreement?

VON NEURATH: No; our willingness to co-operate in a positive way for the limitation of armaments, which had been declared by us on many occasions, also found expression in the negotiations for disarmament in the air. Right from the outset, as early as 1933, Hitler had stressed the importance of this point for the maintenance of peace. Germany was ready to accept any limitation, and even the complete abolition of air armament, if it was done on a reciprocal basis. But only England reacted to such suggestions. The difficulty was to persuade France to participate in the negotiations. She did this only after 3 months through the efforts of England. But France stipulated conditions which made it practically impossible for these negotiations to succeed.

Apart from a general agreement embracing all European states, special bilateral agreements were to be permitted. In addition, the continuation of negotiations on air armament was to be made dependent on negotiations concerning the Eastern Pact. Germany could not participate in this Eastern Pact, since she would have had to assume military obligations whose consequences could not be foreseen.

Owing to this and the outbreak of the Italian-Abyssinian war, which brought the differences among the Western Powers into the open, the negotiations came to a standstill.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: One year later, in March 1936, the Rhineland was reoccupied by German troops. The Prosecution see in this a breach of the Locarno Treaty and further proof of your coresponsibility in the alleged conspiracy against peace. Will you please comment on this?

VON NEURATH: This assertion is completely untrue. There was no decision or plan to wage aggressive war any more than there had been the year before. The restoration of full sovereignty in all parts of the Reich had no military, but only political significance.

The occupation of the Rhineland was carried out with only one division and this fact alone shows that it had only a purely symbolic character. It was clear that a great and industrious people would not tolerate forever such a drastic limitation of its sovereignty as had been imposed by the Versailles Treaty. It was simply a dynamic development which the leaders of German foreign policy could not oppose.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Did the reoccupation of the Rhineland take place according to a plan which had been made some time beforehand, or was the decision spontaneous?

VON NEURATH: It was one of those sudden decisions of Hitler which was to be carried out within a few days.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What were the events which led to this immediate decision?

VON NEURATH: On 16 January 1936, the French Foreign Minister, M. Laval, announced that after his return from Geneva he would present the Russian-French Pact to the French Chamber for ratification. The fact that Hitler, in an interview with M. de Jouvenel, the correspondent of the reputable French paper Paris Midi, while pointing out the dangers of this pact, once again held out his hand to France in an attempt to bring about an honorable and permanent understanding between the two peoples, was of no avail. I had previously discussed this interview in detail with Hitler, and I received the definite impression that he was absolutely serious in his desire for a permanent reconciliation of the two peoples. But this attempt also was in vain. The strong opposition to the pact from large portions of the French people, under the leadership of the _Union Nationale des Combattants_, and in Parliament itself could not prevent the French Government from ratifying the pact. The voting took place on 27 February 1936 in the French Chamber.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like to ask the Court to take note of the following two documents from my Document Book 4: The first is Number 108, Hitler’s interview with the correspondent of _Paris Midi_, M. de Jouvenel, of 21 February 1936. The second is Number 107, an excerpt from the speech of the Deputy Montigny in the French Chamber on 13 February 1936.

On 7 March 1936, by way of answer to the ratification of this treaty, the German troops marched into the demilitarized Rhineland zone. What considerations caused the German Government to take this very serious step? In view of the hostile attitude of the French, there was a danger that this time the Western Powers would not be satisfied with paper protests and resolutions by the League of Nations, but would proceed by force of arms against this one-sided...

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, is this a question or a statement?

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: It is a question. I should like to know the attitude of the Government at that time. If I may make a comment, I must hear these explanations on the grounds for the decisions taken at that time from the defendant himself, for when in my final address...

THE PRESIDENT: You were stating a number of facts. It is not for you to state facts. It is your duty to ask the witness.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I did not want to state facts. I wanted to know from the witness what considerations led to the decision.

[_Turning to the defendant._] Will you please describe to us what factors entered into your consideration at that time?

VON NEURATH: In my previous answers I have already stated why we saw in the Franco-Russian Pact and in France’s whole attitude a most serious threat. This accumulation of power in French hands through the various mutual assistance pacts could be directed only against Germany. There was no other country in the world at which it could be directed. In the event of hostilities—a possibility which, in view of the whole situation, any responsible government would have to reckon with—the western border of Germany was completely open owing to the demilitarization of the Rhineland. This was not only a discriminating provision of the Versailles Treaty, but also one which threatened Germany’s security most. However, it had become obsolete through the decision of 11 December 1932 by the Five Powers in Geneva.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, the Tribunal thinks this is all argument. If there are any facts as to what the German Government did at the time, after the French and Russian Pact and before the entry into the Rhineland, the witness can give these facts, but this is mere argument and the Tribunal is well aware of the argument. It does not require them to be restated, and certainly not to be restated in the course of the evidence.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I merely wanted to avoid that when later in my final speech I refer to this point, the objection might be made that these are my opinions. I want to show...

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, that is quite a wrong conception. We are now hearing evidence. When we hear you we shall be hearing arguments and we shall be prepared to hear any argument from you.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Yes, but I want to avoid it being said these are my arguments. These arguments come from the defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: I am pointing out to you that it is the function of counsel to argue and it is the function of the Tribunal to listen to argument. It is not the function of the Tribunal to listen to argument in the course of evidence.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Very well.

VON NEURATH: Perhaps I may make one statement. In the course of the winter of 1936, we had learned through our military intelligence service that the French General Staff already had a military plan for invading Germany. This invasion was to take place through the Rhineland and along the so-called Main River line toward Czechoslovakia in order to join the Russian ally.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: On the basis of what the President just said, I shall dispense with the evidence, or rather with your considerations, and reserve for myself the right to bring this up in my final speech. I should like to ask just one more question. Did the decision to reoccupy the Rhineland constitute any aggressive intention for the moment or later on?

VON NEURATH: No, none whatever. The reoccupation, as can be seen from my statements, had a purely defensive character and was not intended to have any other purpose. The occupation by such a weak force as a single division made it clear that it was a purely symbolic act. It has been testified to here by the military—the witness Milch, for example—that the Luftwaffe had no part whatever and had learned of the action only 2 or 3 days before. That there were no aggressive plans for the future is shown by the fact that the German Government, at the suggestion of England, on 12 March 1936 undertook, until such time as an understanding had been reached with the Western Powers, particularly with France, not to increase the garrisons in the Rhineland and not to move the troops any closer to the border than they were already, on condition, however, that France would do the same. France did not want to accept this offer. Then, in the memorandum of 7 March 1936 addressed to the signatory powers of Locarno, which the Prosecution has already submitted here, Germany not only made definite suggestions for an agreement with France, Belgium, and the other Locarno Powers, but also declared her willingness to sign a general Air Pact to avoid the danger of sudden air raids, and in addition to join the League of Nations again. In a speech to the Reichstag on 7 March 1936 Hitler explained to the world the reasons for the reoccupation of the Rhineland. This speech, as well as the memorandum, I had discussed beforehand with Hitler, and I can only repeat that I did not have the slightest suspicion that Hitler was not honest or that he was trying to conceal his real intentions which tended toward war. Even today I have the firm conviction that at that time Hitler was not thinking of war. I need not emphasize that any such intention was far from my own thoughts. On the contrary, I considered the restoration of sovereignty throughout the Reich a step toward peace and understanding.

THE PRESIDENT: Let us get on. Dr. Von Lüdinghausen, you are allowing the defendant to make long, long speeches. That is not the object of evidence.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like to submit various documents in this connection and ask the Court to take judicial notice of the following documents in my Document Book 4. First, Number 109, memorandum of 7 March 1936 from the Reich Government to the signatory powers of the Locarno Treaty; Number 112, the official statement of the German Reich Government on 12 March 1936, and Number 113, the communication from the German Ambassador in London to the British Foreign Minister Mr. Eden, on 12 March 1936; and Number 116, a memorandum dated 3 January 1936 sent by the German Government to the British Government through the Ambassador Extraordinary in London, Herr Von Ribbentrop.

[_Turning to the defendant._] What were the consequences of the reoccupation of the Rhineland as far as foreign policy was concerned?

VON NEURATH: In consideration of the wishes of the President of the Court, I will not comment on this question.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: What did the Western Powers do? Did they take any political or diplomatic steps?

VON NEURATH: Foreign Minister Eden said in the House of Commons that Germany’s procedure did not constitute any threat and promised to give careful considerations to the German peace proposals.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like to submit and ask the Court to take judicial notice of the following documents in my Document Book 4: Number 125, excerpts from a speech by the American Under Secretary of State, Mr. Sumner Welles, on the Versailles Treaty and Europe, of 7 July 1937; Document Number 120, excerpt from the decree of the People’s Commissars of Russia on the reduction of the age for military service; and Number 117, a report from the Czechoslovakian Minister in The Hague dated 21 April 1936.

Herr Von Neurath, did you or the Foreign Office forego any further steps and attempts toward a peaceful understanding with the other European powers, or did they continue?

VON NEURATH: These efforts were continued. The next opportunity was provided by our relations with Austria. The development of these relations since 1933 has already been described in detail before the Court; but I should like especially to stress the fact that in our relations with Austria my views remained unchanged from start to finish, that is, I wanted a close economic connection, such as a customs union, between the two countries and a foreign policy run on common lines on the basis of state treaties and close contact between the two Governments, but whatever happened I wanted to see the full independence of Austria guaranteed. For that reason I was always a determined opponent of any interference in the internal political affairs of Austria, and I was against any support being given to the Austrian National Socialists by the German National Socialists in the fight of the former against Dollfuss and Schuschnigg; and I constantly urged Hitler to take the same line. I need not repeat that I sharply condemned the murder of Dollfuss from the moral as well as the political point of view and that the Foreign Office under my direction had nothing whatever to do with this murder, as the Prosecution recently asserted. But that Hitler too had absolutely nothing to do with the murder, I can confirm from various statements which he made to me. The deed was carried out by Austrian National Socialists, some of whom were much more radical than the Germans. This attitude of mine is best proved by the fact that when shortly after the murder of Dollfuss the German Minister in Vienna, Herr Rieth, without my knowledge demanded of the Austrian Government safe conduct to Germany for several persons involved in the murder, I at once recalled him from Vienna and dismissed him from the Foreign Service. I myself, as well as a number of other ministers, also opposed the travel embargo imposed on Austria by Germany.

But I did welcome the efforts for an understanding with Austria, which started in 1935 and were carried through with success by Herr Von Papen, and I always tried to influence Hitler to bring this about. As to Von Papen’s actions in Vienna during this time, I was only imperfectly informed, as Herr Von Papen was not subordinate to me and received his orders directly from Hitler. It was only during this Trial that I learned about the series of letters which Von Papen wrote to Hitler.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: I should like to quote two passages; one is from a letter from Herr Von Neurath to the head of the political section of the Foreign Office dated 28 June 1934, Number 84 in my Document Book 3, Page 227, which says in regard to conditions at that time:

“The development of events in Austria cannot be foreseen. It
appears to me, however, that the acute danger....”

THE PRESIDENT: You are going a little bit too fast. You did not observe the light. Go on.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: “The development of events in Austria
cannot be foreseen. It appears to me, however, that the acute
danger has been averted due to rapid action. We should act with
great reserve now and to this end I spoke to the Reich
Chancellor yesterday. I found complete understanding.”

Then I should like to quote a passage from the affidavit of Bishop Wurm, already submitted by me as Number 1 in my Document Book 1, on Page 3. It says:

“I remember especially his”—Herr Von Neurath’s—“severe
condemnation of the occurrences in Vienna during which
Chancellor Dollfuss was murdered, and of the person used by
Hitler during the agitation in Austria.”

Then, in this connection, I should like to refer to a document which Herr Seyss-Inquart, or his defense counsel, has already submitted under Number Seyss-Inquart-32, which is an interview of the State Chancellor, Dr. Renner, of 3 April 1938. As a precaution, I have included it once more in my Document Book 4, under Number 130.

Herr Von Neurath, you know that the charge is made against you that on 11 July 1936 a treaty was made between Germany and Austria in the course of these negotiations by Von Papen, and that this treaty, which has been discussed here in detail, was concluded with intent to deceive, that is, with the purpose of lulling Austria into a sense of security and preparing for her future incorporation into the Reich. Will you please comment on this point?

VON NEURATH: This assertion is absolutely untrue. In effect I honestly and gladly welcomed this treaty. It corresponded to my point of view in every respect. I saw therein the best means of clearing up the unnatural dissensions, and for that reason I did everything I could to bring it about. The assertion of the Prosecution has been disproved by the statements of the former Austrian Foreign Minister, Dr. Guido Schmidt. I found satisfaction in the fact that the treaty had a special significance as regards foreign policy. By this treaty, in which the Reich clearly recognized Austrian independence, the German-Austrian differences, which were of danger to peace in Europe, were removed.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, in this connection I submit the agreement between Germany and Austria of 11 July 1936 under Number 118 in Document Book 4, and I ask the Court to take judicial notice of it.

Herr Von Neurath, apart from clearing up the Austrian question in the years before 1937, you also carried on negotiations with eastern European states. In the affidavit of the American Consul General Mr. Messersmith, which the Prosecution has submitted as USA-68, 2385-PS, it is asserted that the purpose of these negotiations was to get these southeastern states to acquiesce in the destruction and splitting up of Czechoslovakia contemplated by Germany, and even to take an active part in it. For this purpose, in the course of these negotiations, you are even supposed to have promised these states, or got others to promise them, that they would receive parts of Czechoslovakia and even Austrian territory as a reward. Will you please comment on this?

VON NEURATH: These assertions of Mr. Messersmith are pure invention and a figment of the imagination from beginning to end. There is not one word of truth in them. I can only describe this affidavit as fantastical. It is not even true that he was, as he says, a close friend of mine. I met Mr. Messersmith a few times at large gatherings, but I avoided discussing politics with him, because I knew that in his reports and other statements about talks which he had had with diplomats he repeated things in a way which did not always correspond to the truth. It is significant that incidentally this affidavit contains hardly any accurate indications of the sources he employed.

My negotiations with the southeastern countries, as well as my personal trips to their capitals, in reality had the sole purpose of strengthening the existing economic relations and promoting mutual trade and exchange of goods. In addition, I wanted to gain information about the political situation in the Balkans, which is always difficult to grasp.

DR. VON LÜDINGHAUSEN: In my Document Book 2, under Number 30, Page 87, I have a short excerpt from another affidavit of Mr. Messersmith, dated 29 August 1945. The Prosecution has already submitted it as Exhibit USA-750, Document Number 2386-PS, in another connection. I should like to quote one passage from this excerpt. It is on Page 87 of my Document