Chapter II: Part 2

15. Res^d that the amendments which shall be offered to the Confederation, by the Convention ought at a proper time, or times, after the approbation of Congress to be submitted to an assembly or assemblies of Representatives, recommended by the several Legislatures to be expressly chosen by the people to consider & decide thereon.

He concluded with an exhortation, not to suffer the present opportunity of establishing general peace, harmony, happiness and liberty in the U. S. to pass away unimproved.[31]

[31] This abstract of the speech was furnished to J. M. by
M^r Randolph and is in his handwriting. As a report of it
from him had been relied on, it was omitted by J.
M.--_Madison's Note._ The fifteen resolutions, constituting
the "Virginia Plan," are in Madison's handwriting.

It was then Resolved--That the House will tomorrow resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House to consider of the state of the American Union--and that the propositions moved by M^r Randolph be referred to the said Committee.

M^r Charles Pinkney laid before the House the draft of a federal Government which he had prepared, to be agreed upon between the free and independent States of America.[32]--M^r P. plan ordered that the same be referred to the Committee of the Whole appointed to consider the state of the American Union.[33]

[32] Robert Yates, delegate from New York, kept notes of the
proceedings of the Convention, until he left July 5th, with
his colleague, John Lansing. They wrote a joint letter to
Governor Clinton afterwards, giving their reasons: "We were
not present at the completion of the new constitution; but
before we left the convention, its principles were so well
established as to convince us, that no alteration was to be
expected to conform it to our ideas of expediency and
safety."--_Secret Proceedings of the Federal Convention_,
10. Yates's notes are quoted here, whenever they are at
variance with Madison's. He gives Pinckney's motion as
follows: "Mr. C. Pinckney, a member from South Carolina,
then added, that he had reduced his ideas of a new
government to a system, which he read, and confessed that it
was grounded on the same principle as of the above [the
Randolph] resolutions."--_Id._, 97.

[33] Charles Pinckney wrote to John Quincy Adams:

"WINGAW NEAR GEORGETOWN December 12 1818

"SIR

"I have just had the honour to receive your
favour--Being at present absent from Charleston on a
visit to my planting interest in this neighbourhood
I shall in consequence of your letter shorten my
stay here considerably & return to Town for the
purpose of complying with your request as soon as
possible--From an inspection of my old papers not
long ago I know it was then easily in my power to
have complied with your request--I still hope it is
& as soon as I return to my residence in Charleston
will again, or as quickly as I can write you on it
to prevent delay.

"The Draught of the Constitution proposed by me was
divided into a number of articles & was in complete
detail--the resolutions offered by M^r Randolph were
merely general ones & as far as I recollect they
were both referred to the same Committee.

"With great respect & esteem" &c.
--_Dept. of State MSS._, Miscellaneous Letters.

Three weeks later he wrote again:

"SIR

"On my return to this City as I promised I examined
carefully all the numerous notes & papers which I
had retained relating to the federal
Convention--among them I found several rough
draughts of the Constitution I proposed to the
Convention--although they differed in some measure
from each other in the wording & arrangement of the
articles--yet they were all substantially the
same--they all proceeded upon the idea of throwing
out of view the attempt to amend the existing
Confederation (then a very favorite idea of a
number) & proceeding de novo--of a Division of the
Powers of Government into legislative executive &
judicial & of making the Government to operate
directly upon the People & not upon the States. My
Plan was substantially adopted in the sequel except
as to the Senate & giving more power to the
Executive than I intended--the force of vote which
the small & middling states had in the Convention
prevented our obtaining a proportional
representation in more than one branch & the great
powers given to the President were never intended to
have been given to him while the Convention
continued in that patient & coolly deliberative
situation in which they had been for nearly the
whole of the preceding five months of their session
nor was it until within the last week or ten days
that almost the whole of the Executive Department
was altered--I can assure you as a fact that for
more than Four months & a half out of five the power
of exclusively making treaties, appointing for the
Ministers & judges of the Supreme Court was given to
the Senate after numerous debates & consideration of
the subject both in Committee of the whole & in the
house--this I not only aver but can prove by printed
Documents in my possession to have been the case--&
should I ever have the pleasure to see you &
converse on the subject will state to you some
things relative to this business that may be new &
perhaps surprising to you--the veil of secrecy from
the Proceedings of the Convention being removed by
Congress & but very few of the members alive would
make disclosures now of the secrets there acted less
improper than before--With the aid of the journal &
the numerous notes & memorandums I have preserved
should now be in my power to give a View of the
almost insuperable difficulties the Convention had
to encounter & of the conflicting opinions of the
members I believe should have attempted it had I not
always understood M^r Madison intended it--he alone
I believe possessed & retained more numerous &
particular notes of their proceedings than myself. I
will thank you sir to do me the honour to send me or
to get the President to direct a copy of the Journal
of the Convention to be sent me as also of the
Secret Journals of Congress should it be considered
not improper in me to make the request.

"I have already informed you I have several rough
draughts of the Constitution I proposed & that they
are all substantially the same differing only in
words & the arrangement of the Articles--at the
distance of nearly thirty two years it is impossible
for me now to say which of the 4 or 5 draughts I
have was the one but enclosed I send you the one I
believe was it--I repeat however that they are
substantially the same differing only in form &
unessentials--It may be necessary to remark that
very soon after the Convention met I changed &
avowed candidly the change of my opinion on giving
the power to Congress to revise the State Laws in
certain cases & in giving the exclusive Power to the
Senate to declare War thinking it safer to refuse
the first altogether & to vest the latter in
Congress--I will thank you to acknowledge by a line
the receipt of the Draught & this.

"With very great respect & esteem
"I have the honour to be your most
"Obedient servant
"CHARLES PINCKNEY.

"December 30 1818
"In Charleston."--_Const. MSS._

The plan is written upon paper of the same size as the
letter, and with the same ink. It is undoubtedly
contemporaneous with the letter.

Madison wrote the following note to accompany his journal:

"The length of the Document laid before the
Convention, and other circumstances having prevented
the taking of a copy at the time, that which is here
inserted was taken from the paper furnished to the
Secretary of State, and contained in the Journal of
the Convention published in 1819. On comparing the
paper with the Constitution in its final form, or in
some of its Stages; and with the propositions, and
speeches of M^r Pinckney in the Convention, it would
seem that considerable errour must have crept into
the paper; occasioned possibly by the loss of the
Document laid before the convention (neither that
nor the Resolutions offered by M^r Patterson being
among the preserved papers) and by a consequent
resort for a copy to the rough draught, in which
erasures and interlineations following what passed
in the convention, might be confounded with the
original text, and after a lapse of more than thirty
years, confounded also in the memory of the author.

"There is in the paper a similarity in some cases,
and an identity in others, with details,
expressions, and definitions, the results of
critical discussions and modifications that can not
be ascribed to accident or anticipation.

"Examples may be noticed in Article VIII of the
paper; which is remarkable also for the
circumstance, that whilst it specifies the functions
of the President, no provision is contained in the
paper for the election of such an officer, nor
indeed for the appointment of any executive
magistracy; notwithstanding the evident purpose of
the author to provide an _entire_ plan of a Federal
Government.

"Again, in several instances where the paper
corresponds with the Constitution, it is at variance
with the ideas of M^r Pinckney, as decidedly
expressed in his propositions, and in his arguments,
the former in the Journal of the Convention, the
latter in the report of its debates: Thus in Art:
VIII of the paper, provision is made for removing
the President by impeachment; when it appears that
in the convention, July 20. he was opposed to any
impeachability of the Executive magistrate: In Art:
III, it is required that all money-bills shall
originate in the first Branch of the Legislature;
which he strenuously opposed Aug: 8 and again Aug:
11: In Art: V members of each House are made
ineligible to, as well as incapable of holding, any
office under the union &c. as was the case at one
Stage of the Constitution; a disqualification highly
disapproved and opposed by him Aug: 14.

"A still more conclusive evidence of errour in the
paper is seen in Art: III, which provides, as the
Constitution does, that the first Branch of the
Legislature shall be chosen by the people of the
several States; whilst it appears that on the 6^{th}
of June, a few days only after the Draft was laid
before the convention, its author opposed that mode
of choice, urging & proposing in place of it, an
election by the Legislatures of the several States.

"The remarks here made tho' not material in
themselves, were due to the authenticity and
accuracy aimed at, in this Record of the proceedings
of a Publick Body, so much an object, sometimes, of
curious research, as at all times, of profound
interest."--_Mad. MSS._

This note, as given in Gilpin's _Madison Papers_ (_1840_),
is freely edited. The Pinckney plan is given here as
Pinckney sent it to Adams. Chief-Justice Charles C. Nott, of
the U. S. Court of Claims, informs the editor that
correspondence with Pinckney's descendants reveals the fact
that none of the notes to which he alludes in his letters
are extant.

The letter of December 30, 1818, and plan, are printed in
_The Documentary History of the Constitution_, i., 309 _et
seq._

We the People of the States of New Hampshire Massachusetts Rhode Island & Providence Plantations Connecticut New York New Jersey Pennsylvania Delaware Maryland Virginia North Carolina South Carolina & Georgia do ordain, declare & establish the following Constitution for the government of ourselves & Posterity.

ARTICLE 1:

The Style of this Government shall be The United States of America & the Government shall consist of supreme legislative Executive & judicial Powers.

2

The Legislative Power shall be vested in a Congress to consist of two separate Houses--one to be called the House of Delegates & the other the Senate who shall meet on the ---- ---- Day of ---- in every year.

3

The members of the House of Delegates shall be chosen every ---- year by the people of the several States & the qualification of the electors shall be the same as those of the electors in the several States for their legislatures--each member shall have been a citizen of the United States for ---- years; and shall be of ---- years of age & a resident in the State he is chosen for.----Until a census of the people shall be taken in the manner herein after mentioned the House of Delegates shall consist of ---- to be chosen from the different States in the following proportions: for New Hampshire, ----; for Massachusetts, ---- for Rhode Island, ---- for Connecticut, ---- for New York, ---- for New Jersey, ---- for Pennsylvania, ---- for Delaware, ---- for Mary^{ld}, ---- for Virginia, ---- for North Carolina, ---- for South Carolina, ---- for Georgia, ---- & the Legislature shall hereafter regulate the number of delegates by the number of inhabitants according to the Provisions herein after made, at the rate of one for every ---- thousand.--All money bills of every kind shall originate in the house of Delegates & shall not be altered by the Senate. The House of Delegates shall exclusively possess the power of impeachment & shall choose it's own officers & vacancies therein shall be supplied by the executive authority of the State in the representation from which they shall happen.

4

The Senate shall be elected & chosen by the House of Delegates which House immediately after their meeting shall choose by ballot ---- Senators from among the Citizens & residents of New Hampshire ---- from among those of Massachusetts ---- from among those of Rhode Island ---- from among those of Connecticut ---- from among those of New York ---- from among those of New Jersey ---- from among those of Pennsylvania ---- from among those of Delaware ---- from among those of Maryland ---- from among those of Virginia ---- from among those of North Carolina ---- from among those of South Carolina & ---- from among those of Georgia ----

The Senators chosen from New Hampshire Massachusetts Rhode Island & Connecticut shall form one class--those from New York New Jersey Pennsylvania & Delaware one class--& those from Maryland Virginia North Carolina South Carolina & Georgia one class.

The House of Delegates shall number these Classes one two & three & fix the times of their service by Lot--the first class shall serve for ---- years--the second for ---- years & the third for ---- years--as their times of service expire the House of Delegates shall fill them up by elections for ---- years & they shall fill all vacancies that arise from death or resignation for the time of service remaining of the members so dying or resigning.

Each Senator shall be ---- years of age at least--shall have been a Citizen of the United States 4 years before his election & shall be a resident of the State he is chosen from. The Senate shall choose its own Officers.

5

Each State shall prescribe the time & manner of holding elections by the People for the house of Delegates & the House of Delegates shall be the judges of the elections returns & Qualifications of their members.

In each house a Majority shall constitute a Quorum to do business--Freedom of Speech & Debate in the legislature shall not be impeached or Questioned in any place out of it & the Members of both Houses shall in all cases except for Treason Felony or Breach of the Peace be free from arrest during their attendance at Congress & in going to & returning from it--Both Houses shall keep journals of their Proceedings & publish them except on secret occasions & the yeas & nays may be entered thereon at the desire of one ---- of the members present. Neither house without the consent of the other shall adjourn for more than ---- days nor to any Place but where they are sitting.

The members of each house shall not be eligible to or capable of holding any office under the Union during the time for which they have been respectively elected nor the members of the Senate for one year after.

The members of each house shall be paid for their services by the States which they represent.

Every bill which shall have passed the Legislature shall be presented to the President of the United States for his revision--if he approves it he shall sign it--but if he does not approve it he shall return it with his objections to the house it originated in which house if two thirds of the members present, notwithstanding the President's objections agree to pass it, shall send it to the other house with the President's objections, where if two thirds of the members present also agree to pass it, the same shall become a law--& all bills sent to the President & not returned by him within ---- days shall be laws unless the Legislature by their adjournment prevent their return in which case they shall not be laws.

6^{th}

The Legislature of the United States shall have the power to lay & collect Taxes Duties Imposts & excises

To regulate Commerce with all nations & among the several States.

To borrow money & emit bills of Credit

To establish Post offices.

To raise armies

To build & equip Fleets

To pass laws for arming organizing & disciplining the Militia of the United States

To subdue a rebellion in any State on application of its legislature

To coin money & regulate the Value of all coins & fix the Standard of Weights & measures

To provide such Dock Yards & arsenals & erect such fortifications as may be necessary for the United States & to exercise exclusive Jurisdiction therein

To appoint a Treasurer by ballot

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court

To establish Post & military Roads

To establish & provide for a national University at the Seat of the Government of the United States

To establish uniform rules of Naturalization

To provide for the establishment of a Seat of Government for the United States not exceeding ---- miles square in which they shall have exclusive jurisdiction

To make rules concerning Captures from an Enemy

To declare the law & Punishment of piracies & felonies at sea & of counterfeiting Coin & of all offences against the Laws of Nations

To call forth the aid of the Militia to execute the laws of the Union enforce treaties suppress insurrections and repel invasions

And to make all laws for carrying the foregoing powers into execution.

The Legislature of the United States shall have the Power to declare the Punishment of Treason which shall consist only in levying War against the United States or any of them or in adhering to their Enemies. No person shall be convicted of Treason but by the testimony of two witnesses.

The proportion of direct taxation shall be regulated by the whole number of inhabitants of every description which number shall within ---- years after the first meeting of the Legislature & within the term of every ---- year after be taken in the manner to be prescribed by the Legislature

No Tax shall be laid on articles exported from the States--nor capitation tax but in proportion to the Census before directed

All Laws regulating Commerce shall require the assent of two thirds of the members present in each house--The United States shall not grant any title of Nobility--The Legislature of the United States shall pass no Law on the subject of Religion, nor touching or abridging the Liberty of the Press nor shall the privilege of the writ of Habeas Corpus ever be suspended except in case of Rebellion or Invasion.

All acts made by the Legislature of the United States pursuant to this Constitution & all Treaties made under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme Law of the land & all Judges shall be bound to consider them as such in their decisions.

7

The Senate shall have the sole & exclusive power to declare War & to make treaties & to appoint Ambassadors & other Ministers to foreign nations & Judges of the Supreme Court.

They shall have the exclusive power to regulate the manner of deciding all disputes & controversies now subsisting or which may arise between the States respecting Jurisdiction or Territory.

8

The Executive Power of the United States shall be vested in a President of the United States of America which shall be his style & his title shall be His Excellency. He shall be elected for ---- years & shall be reeligible.

He shall from time to time give information to the Legislature of the state of the Union & recommend to their consideration the measures he may think necessary--he shall take care that the laws of the United States be duly executed: he shall commission all the officers of the United States & except as to Ambassadors other ministers and Judges of the Supreme Court he shall nominate & with the consent of the Senate appoint all other officers of the United States. He shall receive public Ministers from foreign nations & may correspond with the Executives of the different States. He shall have power to grant pardons & reprieves except in impeachments--He shall be Commander in chief of the army & navy of the United States & of the Militia of the several States & shall receive a compensation which shall not be increased or diminished during his continuance in office. At entering on the Duties of his office he shall take an oath faithfully to execute the duties of a President of the United States.--He shall be removed from his office on impeachment by the house of Delegates & Conviction in the Supreme Court of Treason bribery or Corruption--In case of his removal death resignation or disability the President of the Senate shall exercise the duties of his office until another President be chosen--& in case of the death of the President of the Senate the Speaker of the House of Delegates shall do so.

9

The Legislature of the United States shall have the Power and it shall be their duty to establish such Courts of Law Equity & Admiralty as shall be necessary--The Judges of the Courts shall hold their offices during good behaviour & receive a compensation, which shall not be increased or diminished during their continuance in office--One of these Courts shall be termed the Supreme Court whose jurisdiction shall extend to all cases arising under the laws of the United States or affecting ambassadors other public Ministers & Consuls--to the trial of impeachment of officers of the United States--to all cases of Admiralty & maritime jurisdiction--In cases of impeachment affecting ambassadors and other public Ministers this Jurisdiction shall be original & in all other cases appellate----

All criminal offences (except in cases of impeachment) shall be tried in the State where they shall be committed--the trials shall be open & public & shall be by Jury.

10

Immediately after the first census of the people of the United States the House of Delegates shall apportion the Senate by electing for each State out of the citizens resident therein one Senator for every ---- members each State shall have in the House of Delegates--Each State shall be entitled to have at least one member in the Senate.

11

No State shall grant letters of marque & reprisal or enter into treaty or alliance or confederation nor grant any title of nobility nor without the Consent of the Legislature of the United States lay any impost on imports--nor keep troops or Ships of War in time of peace--nor enter into compacts with other States or foreign powers or emit bills of Credit or make any thing but Gold Silver or Copper a tender in payment of debts nor engage in War except for self defence when actually invaded or the danger of invasion be so great as not to admit of a delay until the Government of the United States can be informed thereof--& to render these prohibitions effectual the Legislature of the United States shall have the power to revise the laws of the several States that may be supposed to infringe the Powers exclusively delegated by this Constitution to Congress & to negative & annul such as do.

12

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all privileges & immunities of Citizens in the several States--Any person charged with Crimes in any State fleeing from justice to another shall on demand of the Executive of the State from which he fled be delivered up & removed to the State having jurisdiction of the offence.

13

Full faith shall be given in each State to the acts of the Legislature & to the records & judicial Proceedings of the Courts & magistrates of every State.

14

The Legislature shall have power to admit new States into the Union on the same terms with the original States provided two thirds of the members present in both Houses agree.

15

On the application of the legislature of a State the United States shall protect it against domestic insurrection.

16

If two thirds of the Legislatures of the States apply for the same the Legislature of the United States shall call a Convention for the purpose of amending the Constitution--or should Congress, with the Consent of two thirds of each house, propose to the States amendments to the same--the agreement of two thirds of the Legislatures of the States shall be sufficient to make the said amendments parts of the Constitution.

The Ratification of the conventions of ---- States shall be sufficient for organizing this Constitution.[34]

[34] "... What will be the result of their meeting I cannot with
any certainty determine, but I hardly think much good can
come of it; the people of America don't appear to me to be
ripe for any great innovations & it seems they are
ultimately to ratify or reject: the weight of Gen^l
Washington as you justly observe is very great in America,
but I hardly think it is sufficient to induce the people to
pay money or part with power.

"The delegates from the Eastw^d are for a very strong
government, & wish to prostrate all y^e State legislatures,
& form a general system out of y^e whole; but I don't learn
that the people are with them, on y^e contrary in
Massachusetts they think that government too strong, & are
about rebelling again, for the purpose of making it more
democratical: In Connecticut they have rejected the
requisition for y^e present year decidedly, & no Man there
would be elected to the office of a constable if he was to
declare that he meant to pay a copper towards the domestic
debt:--R. Island has refused to send members--the cry there
is for a good government after they have paid their debts in
depreciated paper:--first demolish the Philistines (i. e.
their creditors) then for _propiety_.

"N. Hampshire has not paid a shilling, since peace, & does
not ever mean to pay on to all eternity:--if it was
attempted to tax the people for y^e domestic debt 500 Shays
would arise in a fortnight.--In N. York they pay well
because they can do it by plundering N. Jersey &
Connecticut.--Jersey will go great lengths from motives of
revenge and Interest: Pensylvany will join provided you let
the sessions of the Executive of America be fixed in
Philad^a & give her other advantages in trade to compensate
for the loss of State power. I shall make no observations on
the Southern States, but I think they will be (perhaps from
different motives) as little disposed to part with efficient
power as any in the Union...."--William Grayson to James
Monroe, New York, May 29, 1787. _Monroe MSS._

Adjourned.

WEDNESDAY MAY 30.

Roger Sherman (from Connecticut) took his seat.

The House went into Committee of the Whole on the State of the Union. M^r Gorham was elected to the Chair by Ballot.

The propositions of M^r Randolph which had been referred to the Co[~m]ittee being taken up. He moved on the suggestion of M^r G. Morris, that the first of his propositions to wit "Resolved that the articles of Confederation ought to be so corrected & enlarged, as to accomplish the objects proposed by their institution; namely, common defence, security of liberty, and general welfare,--should be postponed, in order to consider the 3 following:

1. that a union of the States merely federal will not accomplish
the objects proposed by the articles of Confederation, namely
common defence, security of liberty, & gen^l welfare.

2. that no treaty or treaties among the whole or part of the
States, as individual Sovereignties, would be sufficient.

3. that a _national_ Government ought to be established
consisting of a _supreme_ Legislative, Executive & Judiciary.

The motion for postponing was seconded by M^r Gov^r Morris and unanimously agreed to.

Some verbal criticisms were raised ag^{st} the first proposition, and it was agreed on motion of M^r Butler seconded by M^r Randolph, to pass on to the third, which underwent a discussion, less however on its general merits than on the force and extent of the particular terms _national & supreme_.

M^r Charles Pinkney wished to know of M^r Randolph, whether he meant to abolish the State Govern^{ts} altogether. M^r R. replied that he meant by these general propositions merely to introduce the particular ones which explained the outlines of the system he had in view.

M^r Butler said he had not made up his mind on the subject, and was open to the light which discussion might throw on it. After some general observations he concluded with saying that he had opposed the grant of powers to Cong^s heretofore, because the whole power was vested in one body. The proposed distribution of the powers into different bodies changed the case, and would induce him to go great lengths.

Gen^l Pinkney[35] expressed a doubt whether the act of Cong^s reco[~m]ending the Convention, or the Commissions of the Deputies to it, could authorize a discussion of a system founded on different principles from the federal Constitution.

[35] "M^r Ch^s Cotesworth Pinckney is a Gentleman of Family and
fortune in his own State. He has received the advantage of a
liberal education, and possesses a very extensive degree of
legal knowledge. When warm in a debate he sometimes speaks
well,--but he is generally considered an indifferent Orator.
Mr. Pinckney was an Officer of high rank in the American
Army, and served with great reputation through the War. He
is now about 40 years of age."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist.
Rev._, iii., 333.

M^r Gerry[36] seemed to entertain the same doubt.

[36] "M. Gerry's character is marked for integrity and
perseverance. He is a hesitating and laborious
speaker;--possesses a great degree of confidence and goes
extensively into all subjects that he speaks on, without
respect to elegance or flower of diction. He is connected
and sometimes clear in his arguments, conceives well, and
cherishes as his first virtue, a love for his Country. Mr.
Gerry is very much of a Gentleman in his principles and
manners;--he has been engaged in the mercantile line and is
a Man of property. He is about 37 years of age."--Pierce's
Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 325.

M^r Gov^r Morris explained the distinction between a _federal_ and _national_, _supreme_, Gov^t; the former being a mere compact resting on the good faith of the parties; the latter having a compleat and _compulsive_ operation. He contended that in all Communities there must be one supreme power, and one only.

M^r Mason observed that the present confederation was not only deficient in not providing for coercion & punishment ag^{st} delinquent States; but argued very cogently that punishment could not in the nature of things be executed on the States collectively, and therefore that such a Gov^t was necessary as could directly operate on individuals, and would punish those only whose guilt required it.

M^r Sherman[37] who took his seat today, admitted that the Confederation had not given sufficient power to Cong^s and that additional powers were necessary; particularly that of raising money which he said would involve many other powers. He admitted also that the General & particular jurisdictions ought in no case to be concurrent. He seemed however not to be disposed to make too great inroads on the existing system; intimating as one reason, that it would be wrong to lose every amendment, by inserting such as would not be agreed to by the States.

[37] "M^r Sherman exhibits the oddest shaped character I
ever remember to have met with. He is awkward, un-meaning,
and unaccountably strange in his manner. But in his train of
thinking there is something regular, deep, and
comprehensive; yet the oddity of his address, the vulgarisms
that accompany his public speaking, and that strange new
England cant which runs through his public as well as his
private speaking make everything that is connected with him
grotesque and laughable;--and yet he deserves infinite
praise,--no Man has a better Heart or a clearer Head. If he
cannot embellish he can furnish thoughts that are wise and
useful. He is an able politician and extremely artful in
accomplishing any particular object;--it is remarked that he
seldom fails. I am told he sits on the Bench in Connecticut,
and is very correct in the discharge of his Judicial
functions. In the early part of his life he was a
Shoe-maker;--but despising the lowness of his condition, he
turned Almanack maker, and so progressed upwards to a Judge.
He has been several years a Member of Congress, and
discharged the duties of his Office with honor and credit to
himself, and advantage to the State he represented. He is
about 60."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 326.

It was moved by M^r Read,[38] 2^{ded} by M^r Ch^s Cotesworth Pinkney, to postpone the 3^d proposition last offered by M^r Randolph viz that a national Government ought to be established consisting of a supreme Legislative Executive and Judiciary, in order to take up the following,--viz. "Resolved that in order to carry into execution the Design of the States in forming this Convention, and to accomplish the objects proposed by the Confederation a more effective Government consisting of a Legislative, Executive and Judiciary, ought to be established." The motion to postpone for this purpose was lost:

Yeas. Massachusetts, Connecticut, Delaware, S. Carolina--4.
Nays. N. Y. Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina--4.

[38] "M^r Read is a Lawyer and a Judge;--his legal abilities
are said to be very great, but his powers of Oratory are
fatiguing and tiresome to the last degree;--his voice is
feeble and his articulation so bad that few can have
patience to attend to him. He is a very good Man, and bears
an amiable character with those who know him. Mr. Read is
about 50, of a low stature, and a weak
constitution."--Pierce's Notes, _Id._, iii., 330.

On the question as moved by M^r Butler, on the third proposition it was resolved in Committee of whole that a national govern^t ought to be established consisting of a supreme Legislative Executive & Judiciary,--Mass^{ts} being ay.--Connect.--no. N. York divided (Col. Hamilton ay. M^r Yates no.) Pen^a ay. Delaware ay. Virg^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay.

The following Resolution, being the 2^d of those proposed by M^r Randolph was taken up, viz.--"that the rights of suffrage in the National Legislature ought to be proportioned to the quotas of contribution, or to the number of free inhabitants, as the one or the other rule may seem best in different cases."

M^r Madison[39] observing that the words, "_or to the number of free inhabitants_," might occasion debates which would divert the Committee from the general question whether the principle of representation should be changed, moved that they might be struck out.

[39] "Mr. Madison is a character who has long been in public
life; and what is very remarkable every Person seems to
acknowledge his greatness. He blends together the profound
politician, with the Scholar. In the management of every
great question he evidently took the lead in the Convention,
and tho' he cannot be called an Orator, he is a most
agreeable, eloquent, and convincing Speaker. From a spirit
of industry and application which he possesses in a most
eminent degree, he always comes forward the best informed
Man of any point in debate. The affairs of the United
States, he perhaps, has the most correct knowledge of, of
any Man in the Union. He has been twice a Member of
Congress, and was always thought one of the ablest Members
that ever sat in that Council. Mr. Maddison is about 37
years of age, a Gentleman of great modesty,--with a
remarkable sweet temper. He is easy and unreserved among his
acquaintance, and has a most agreeable style of
conversation."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 331.

M^r King observed that the quotas of contribution which would alone remain as the measure of representation, would not answer, because waving every other view of the matter, the revenue might hereafter be so collected by the General Gov^t that the sums respectively drawn from the States would not appear, and would besides be continually varying.

M^r Madison admitted the propriety of the observation, and that some better rule ought to be found.

Col. Hamilton moved to alter the resolution so as to read "that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought to be proportioned to the number of free inhabitiants." M^r Spaight 2^{ded} the motion.

It was then moved that the Resolution be postponed, which was agreed to.

M^r Randolph and M^r Madison then moved the following resolution--"that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought to be proportioned."

It was moved and 2^{ded} to amend it by adding "and not according to the present system"--which was agreed to.

It was then moved & 2^{ded} to alter the resolution so as to read "that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought not to be according to the present system."

It was then moved & 2^{ded} to postpone the Resolution moved by M^r Randolph & M^r Madison, which being agreed to:

M^r Madison, moved, in order to get over the difficulties, the following resolution--"that the equality of suffrage established by the articles of Confederation ought not to prevail in the national Legislature, and "that an equitable ratio of representation ought to be substituted." This was 2^{ded} by M^r Gov^r Morris, and being generally relished, would have been agreed to; when,

M^r Reed moved that the whole clause relating to the point of Representation be postponed; reminding the Com^e that the deputies from Delaware were restrained by their co[~m]ission from assenting to any change of the rule of suffrage, and in case such a change should be fixed on, it might become their duty to retire from the Convention.

M^r Gov^r Morris observed that the valuable assistance of those members could not be lost without real concern, and that so early a proof of discord in the Convention as the secession of a State, would add much to the regret; that the change proposed was however so fundamental an article in a national Gov^t, that it could not be dispensed with.

M^r Madison observed that whatever reason might have existed for the equality of suffrage when the Union was a federal one among sovereign States, it must cease when a National Governm^t should be put into the place. In the former case, the acts of Cong^s depended so much for their efficacy on the cooperation of the States, that these had a weight both within & without Congress, nearly in proportion to their extent and importance. In the latter case, as the acts of the Gen^l Gov^t would take effect without the intervention of the State legislatures, a vote from a small State w^d have the same efficacy & importance as a vote from a large one, and there was the same reason for different numbers of representatives from different States, as from Counties of different extents within particular States. He suggested as an expedient for at once taking the sense of the members on this point and saving the Delaware deputies from embarrassment, that the question should be taken in Committee, and the clause on report to the House, be postponed without a question there. This however did not appear to satisfy Mr. Read.

By several it was observed that no just construction of the Act of Delaware, could require or justify a secession of her deputies, even if the resolution were to be carried thro' the House as well as the Committee. It was finally agreed however that the clause should be postponed: it being understood that in the event the proposed change of representation would certainly be agreed to, no objection or difficulty being started from any other quarter than from Delaware.

The motion of Mr. Read to postpone being agreed to,

The Committee then rose. The Chairman reported progress, and the House having resolved to resume the subject in Committee to-morrow,

Adjourned to 10 O Clock.

THURSDAY MAY 31[40]

[40] "This day the state of New Jersey was represented, so that
there were now ten states in Convention."--Yates, _Secret
Proceedings_, etc., 99. But in the _Journal of the Federal
Convention (1819)_, as in Madison's account, New Jersey is
entered as present May 25th. On May 30 two votes are
recorded by Madison and in the _Journal_ without New Jersey.
It is probable that an error was made in the _Journal_ and
that Madison followed it.

William Pierce, from Georgia took his seat.[41]

[41] Rufus King kept a few notes of the proceedings of the
convention from May 31st to August 8th. They are meagre, but
corroborate Madison's report. See King's _Life and
Correspondence of Rufus King_, i., 587.

Pierce also kept a few rough notes of the proceedings which
were printed in the _Savannah Georgian_, April 19, 21, 22,
23, 24, 25, 26, and 28, 1828, and reprinted in _The American
Historical Review_, iii., 317 _et seq._ They throw little
additional light on the debates, but wherever they do are
quoted here, as are King's.

In Committee of the whole on Mr. Randolph's propositions.

The 3^d Resolution "that the national Legislature ought to consist of two branches" was agreed to without debate or dissent, except that of Pennsylvania, given probably from complaisance to Doc^r Franklin who was understood to be partial to a single House of Legislation.

Resol: 4. first clause, "that the members of the first branch of the National Legislature ought to be elected by the people of the several States," being taken up,

M^r Sherman opposed the election by the people, insisting that it ought to be by the State Legislatures. The people he said, immediately should have as little to do as may be about the Government. They want information and are constantly liable to be misled.

M^r Gerry. The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue, but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Mass^{ts} it had been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute. One principal evil arises from the want of due provision for those employed in the administration of Governm^t. It would seem to be a maxim of democracy to starve the public servants. He mentioned the popular clamour in Mass^{ts} for the reduction of salaries and the attack made on that of the Gov^r though secured by the spirit of the Constitution itself. He had he said been too republican heretofore: he was still however republican, but had been taught by experience the danger of the levelling spirit.

M^r Mason argued strongly for an election of the larger branch by the people. It was to be the grand depository of the democratic principle of the Gov^t. It was, so to speak, to be our House of Commons--It ought to know & sympathize with every part of the community; and ought therefore to be taken not only from different parts of the whole republic, but also from different districts of the larger members of it, which had in several instances particularly in Virg^a, different interests and views arising from difference of produce, of habits &c &c. He admitted that we had been too democratic but was afraid we s^d incautiously run into the opposite extreme. We ought to attend to the rights of every class of the people. He had often wondered at the indifference of the superior classes of society to this dictate of humanity & policy, considering that however affluent their circumstances, or elevated their situations, might be, the course of a few years, not only might but certainly would, distribute their posterity throughout the lowest classes of Society. Every selfish motive therefore, every family attachment, ought to recommend such a system of policy as would provide no less carefully for the rights and happiness of the lowest than of the highest orders of Citizens.

M^r Wilson contended strenuously for drawing the most numerous branch of the Legislature immediately from the people. He was for raising the federal pyramid to a considerable altitude, and for that reason wished to give it as broad a basis as possible. No government could long subsist without the confidence of the people. In a republican Government this confidence was peculiarly essential. He also thought it wrong to increase the weight of the State Legislatures by making them the electors of the national Legislature. All interference between the general and local Governm^{ts} should be obviated as much as possible. On examination it would be found that the opposition of States to federal measures had proceeded much more from the officers of the States, than from the people at large.

M^r Madison considered the popular election of one branch of the national Legislature as essential to every plan of free Government. He observed that in some of the States one branch of the Legislature was composed of men already removed from the people by an intervening body of electors. That if the first branch of the general legislature should be elected by the State Legislatures, the second branch elected by the first--the Executive by the second together with the first; and other appointments again made for subordinate purposes by the Executive, the people would be lost sight of altogether; and the necessary sympathy between them and their rulers and officers, too little felt. He was an advocate for the policy of refining the popular appointments by successive filtrations, but thought it might be pushed too far. He wished the expedient to be resorted to only in the appointment of the second branch of the Legislature, and in the Executive & judiciary branches of the Government. He thought too that the great fabric to be raised would be more stable and durable, if it should rest on the solid foundation of the people themselves, than if it should stand merely on the pillars of the Legislatures.

M^r Gerry did not like the election by the people. The maxims taken from the British Constitution were often fallacious when applied to our situation which was extremely different. Experience he said had shewn that the State legislatures drawn immediately from the people did not always possess their confidence. He had no objection however to an election by the people if it were so qualified that men of honor & character might not be unwilling to be joined in the appointments. He seemed to think the people might nominate a certain number out of which the State legislatures should be bound to choose.[42]

[42] "Mr. Strong would agree to the principle, provided it would
undergo a certain modification, but pointed out
nothing."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 318.

M^r Butler thought an election by the people an impracticable mode.

On the question for an election of the first branch of the national Legislature, by the people,

Mass^{ts} ay. Connec^t div^d. N. York ay. N. Jersey no. Pen^a ay.
Delaw^r div^d. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Georg^a ay.

The remaiñg Clauses of Resolution 4^{th} relating to the qualifications of members of the National Legislature, being posp^d nem. con., as entering too much into detail for general propositions.

The Committee proceeded to Resolution 5. "that the second, (or senatorial) branch of the National Legislature ought to be chosen by the first branch out of persons nominated by the State Legislatures."

M^r Spaight contended that the 2^d branch ought to be chosen by the State Legislatures and moved an amendment to that effect.[43]

[43] "M^r King observed that the Question called for was
premature, and out of order,--that unless we go on regularly
from one principle to the other we shall draw out our
proceedings to an endless length."--Pierce's Notes, _Am.
Hist. Rev._, iii., 318.

M^r Butler apprehended that the taking so many powers out of the hands of the States as was proposed, tended to destroy all that balance and security of interests among the States which it was necessary to preserve; and called on M^r Randolph the mover of the propositions, to explain the extent of his ideas, and particularly the number of members he meant to assign to this second branch.

M^r Rand^f observed that he had at the time of offering his propositions stated his ideas as far as the nature of general propositions required; that details made no part of the plan, and could not perhaps with propriety have been introduced. If he was to give an opinion as to the number of the second branch, he should say that it ought to be much smaller than that of the first; so small as to be exempt from the passionate proceedings to which numerous assemblies are liable. He observed that the general object was to provide a cure for the evils under which the U. S. laboured; that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulance and follies of democracy: that some check therefore was to be sought for ag^{st} this tendency of our Governments: and that a good Senate seemed most likely to answer the purpose.[44]

[44] "Butler said that until the number of the Senate could be
known it would be impossible for him to give a vote on
it."--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 318.

M^r King reminded the Committee that the choice of the second branch as proposed (by M^r Spaight) viz. by the State Legislatures would be impracticable, unless it was to be very numerous, or _the idea of proportion_ among the States was to be disregarded. According to this _idea_, there must be 80 or 100 members to entitle Delaware to the choice of one of them.--M^r Spaight withdrew his motion.

M^r Wilson opposed both a nomination by the State Legislatures, and an election by the first branch of the national Legislature, because the second branch of the latter, ought to be independent of both. He thought both branches of the National Legislature ought to be chosen by the people, but was not prepared with a specific proposition. He suggested the mode of chusing the Senate of N. York to wit of uniting several election districts for one branch, in chusing members for the other branch, as a good model.

M^r Madison observed that such a mode would destroy the influence of the smaller States associated with larger ones in the same district; as the latter would chuse from within themselves, altho' better men might be found in the former. The election of Senators in Virg^a where large & small counties were often formed into one district for the purpose, had illustrated this consequence. Local partiality, would often prefer a resident within the County or State, to a candidate of superior merit residing out of it. Less merit also in a resident would be more known throughout his own State.[45]

[45] "M^r Butler moved to have the proposition relating to the
first branch postponed, in order to take up another,--which
was that the second branch of the Legislature consist of
blank.

"M^r King objected to the postponement for the reasons which he had offered before."--Pierce's Notes, _Id._, iii., 319.

M^r Sherman favored an election of one member by each of the State Legislatures.[46]

[46] According to Pierce, Mason spoke after Sherman, and
Pinckney's motion is given more fully by Pierce than by
Madison.

"M^r Mason was of opinion that it would be highly improper to draw the Senate out of the first branch; that it would occasion vacancies which would cost much time, trouble, and expense to have filled up,--besides which it would make the members too dependent on the first branch.

"M^r Ch^s Pinckney said he meant to propose to divide the Continent into four Divisions, out of which a certain number of persons sh^d be nominated, and out of that nomination to appoint a senate."--Pierce's Notes, _Amer. Hist. Rev._, iii., 319.

M^r Pinkney moved to strike out the "nomination by the State Legislatures;" on this question.

[47]Mass^{ts} no. Con^t no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. Pen^a no. Del.
div^d V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Georg no.

[47] This question is omitted in the printed Journal,
& the votes applied to the succeeding one, instead
of the votes as here stated.--Madison's Note.