Chapter M: CAMPBELL then rose and spoke as follows (30)

_From Rhode Island_--Nehemiah Knight, and Joseph Stanton.

_From Connecticut_--Samuel W. Dana, John Davenport, jr.,
Jonathan O. Mosely, Timothy Pitkin, jr., Lewis B. Sturges, and
Benjamin Tallmadge.

_From New York_--John Blake, jr., Silas Halsey, John Russell,
Peter Sailly, Thomas Sammons, Martin G. Schuneman, Philip Van
Cortlandt, and Killian K. Van Rensselaer.

_From New Jersey_--Ezra Darby, Ebenezer Elmer, John Lambert,
James Sloan, and Henry Southard.

_From Pennsylvania_--Isaac Anderson, David Bard, Robert Brown,
Joseph Clay, Frederick Conrad, William Findlay, John Hamilton,
James Kelly, John Pugh, John Rea, Jacob Richards, John Smilie,
Samuel Smith, John Whitehill, and Robert Whitehill.

_From Delaware_--James M. Broom.

_From Maryland_--Charles Goldsborough, Patrick Magruder,
William McCreery, Nicholas R. Moore, and Roger Nelson.

_From Virginia_--Burwell Bassett, John Claiborne, John Clopton,
John Dawson, John W. Eppes, James M. Garnett, Peterson Goodwyn,
David Holmes, Walter Jones, Joseph Lewis, jr., Thomas Newton,
jr., and John Randolph.

_From North Carolina_--Willis Alston, jr., Thomas Kenan, Duncan
MacFarland, Nathaniel Macon, Speaker, Richard Stanford, Joseph
Winston, and Thomas Wynns.

_From South Carolina_--William Butler, Robert Marion, Thomas
Moore, and David R. Williams.

_From Georgia_--Peter Early, and David Meriwether.

_From Ohio_--Jeremiah Morrow.

_From Kentucky_--George M. Bedinger, John Boyle, and Thomas
Sanford.

_From Tennessee_--George W. Campbell, and John Rhea.

_Delegate from the Mississippi Territory_--William Lattimore.

Two new members, to wit: from Connecticut THEODORE DWIGHT, returned to serve in this House, as a member for the said State, in the room of John Cotton Smith, who has resigned his seat; and, from Virginia, WILLIAM A. BURWELL, returned to serve in this House, as a member for the said State, in the room of Christopher Clark, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced their credentials, were qualified, and took their seats in the House.

DANIEL CLARK, returned to serve as a delegate from the Orleans Territory of the United States, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

And a quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole number, being present, a message was sent to the Senate to inform them that a quorum of the House is assembled, and ready to proceed to business.

A message from the Senate informed the House, that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to proceed to business.

Mr. DAWSON and Mr. GEORGE W. CAMPBELL were appointed a committee, on the part of the House, jointly with such committee as may be appointed on the part of the Senate, to wait on the President of the United States, and inform him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may be pleased to make to them.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have appointed a committee on their part for the same purpose.

TUESDAY, December 2.

Several other members, to wit: from New York, HENRY W. LIVINGSTON, and URI TRACY; from Maryland, JOHN CAMPBELL; from Virginia, JOHN MORROW, THOMAS M. RANDOLPH, JOHN SMITH, PHILIP R. THOMPSON, and ALEXANDER WILSON; from North Carolina, JAMES HOLLAND; and from South Carolina, ELIAS EARLE, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. [For which, see Senate proceedings of this date, _ante_, page 485.]

WEDNESDAY, December 3.

Several other members, to wit: from New York, JOSIAH MASTERS and DAVID THOMAS; from Maryland, LEONARD COVINGTON; and from South Carolina, LEVI CASEY, appeared and took their seats in the House.

Another new member, to wit, EDWARD LLOYD, from Maryland, returned to serve in this House as a member for the said State, in the room of Joseph H. Nicholson, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, December 15.

Two other members, to wit: GEORGE CLINTON, junior, from New York, and WILLIAM DICKSON, from Tennessee, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

_Coast Survey._

Mr. DANA, of Connecticut.--In 1802, an act was passed, authorizing a survey of Long Island Sound. In pursuance of that act, the Secretary of the Treasury caused a survey to be taken by two men, who appear to have been, what the act intended, intelligent and proper persons. And there has since been published a chart of the Sound, handsomely executed, on a large scale, which must, I presume, be regarded as convenient and valuable by those concerned in that branch of navigation.

At the last session of Congress, an act was passed for another survey. It made provision for surveying the coast of North Carolina between Cape Hatteras and Cape Fear, with the shoals lying off or between those capes. I understand that measures have been taken for executing this act, but that the vessel employed in the service, and all the papers respecting the survey which had been made, had been lost near Ocracoke Inlet, in one of the desolating storms experienced on the coast in the course of the present year.

The surveys, which have thus been authorized, were perhaps of the most urgent necessity; but other surveys of the coast are desirable. What has already been done may be regarded as introductory to a general survey of the coasts of the United States under authority of the Government. With a correct chart of every part of the coast, our seamen would no longer be under the necessity of relying on the imperfect or erroneous accounts given of our coasts by foreign navigators. I hope the lives of our seamen, the interest of our merchants, and the benefits to the revenue, will be regarded as affording ample compensation for making a complete survey of the coasts of the United States at the public expense.

The information which may be obtained will also be useful in designating portions of territorial sea to be regarded as the maritime precincts of the United States, within which, of course, the navigation ought to be free from the belligerent searches and seizures.

It is proposed to extend the survey to the distance of twenty leagues from the shore. This distance is mentioned with a view to the second article of the treaty with Great Britain in 1783, which describes our boundaries as “comprehending all islands within twenty leagues of any part of the shores of the United States.”

The resolution, which I propose for the consideration of the House, is expressed in these words:

_Resolved_, That the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures be
instructed to inquire into the expediency of making provision
for a survey of the coasts of the United States, designating
the several islands, with the shoals and roads or places of
anchorage within twenty leagues of any part of the shores of
the United States.

WEDNESDAY, December 17.

Two other members, to wit: PELEG WADSWORTH, from Massachusetts, and DANIEL C. VERPLANCK, from New York, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

THURSDAY, December 18.

Another member, to wit, ANDREW GREGG, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

_Importation of Slaves._

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill prohibiting the importation of slaves.

Mr. BIDWELL observed, that there were strong objections against the forfeiture of persons of color imported into the United States. As the bill stood, the forfeiture was to be followed by a sale of these persons, as property, as slaves. On this point there was a great diversity in the laws and habits of the respective States; to avoid an interference with which, it appeared to him most advisable to do away the forfeiture, leaving their disposition to the provisions of the laws of the several States. If this part of the section should be struck out, those laws would operate on this point.

There would, he said, be a serious difficulty in adopting the principle of forfeiture accompanied with a sale. In some of the States, the idea of such a species of property was excluded by their constitutions; in those States there could be no such thing as a slave. It was true, that the constitutions and laws of such States did not go the length of interfering with the laws of other States, where slavery was permitted. If fugitives from them sought an asylum in the State of Massachusetts, for instance, they were faithfully restored, under the provisions of the Constitution of the United States. Neither did the laws of Massachusetts interfere with travellers passing through it with slaves; but so far as it respected persons coming to reside in the State, they were manumitted, as a matter of course.[44] He believed that no contract for their sale within the State would be of any validity; nor did he believe any power had been given to the United States to render such sale valid. If there were such a power, its tendency would be to introduce into that State persons contrary to its laws. If such a sale were valid, it would interfere with those laws; and if not valid, it would be a perfect nullity, and the provision be thus altogether inoperative. It was admitted that there was no probability of such an importation into States where slavery was not allowed; yet such a thing might take place, and Congress ought not to legislate under the idea that it would not take place.

Mr. EARLY observed, that this motion could only be viewed as an old thing offered in a new shape, intended to have the same effect as the motion offered the preceding day declaring persons of color imported into the United States free. He thought it betrayed great inconsistency. Those who advocated it had yesterday supported an amendment which, by declaring all such persons free, went directly to interfere with the laws of States where slavery was permitted; to-day they gravely maintained the inexpediency of any such interference whatever. The great difficulty insisted upon was, that the operation of this law in States where slavery was not permitted, would contravene the existing laws by forfeiting the imported slaves. But this difficulty had no solidity in it--it was altogether ideal, as from the nature of things the case of an importation in such States could not occur; at all events, it was among the most improbable events in nature.

Mr. BIDWELL moved to strike out all that part of the fourth section which related to the forfeiture of negroes.

Mr. EARLY asked, what substitute was intended.

Mr. BIDWELL replied, that he should move that the committee rise, and that the bill be recommitted.

Mr. QUINCY, of Massachusetts.--I am opposed to the motion of my colleague, (Mr. BIDWELL,) to strike out the forfeiture. The United States ought to retain the control of them. What is to be done with them, is another question. But for the United States to divest the old owners of their right, and provide no means for their protection afterwards, appears to me cruel and dangerous. They are helpless, ignorant of our laws, and of our language and manners. How are they to be supported? If imported into the South, they will be slaves; if into the North, vagabonds. My colleague ought to show what is to be done with them. I am not prepared with a plan, but I should suppose that they might be disposed of in service, in such States as would admit them, at the discretion of the Secretary of the Treasury. If forfeited to the United States, we can, by a general provision, do what we please with them. And I have no doubt that what we do will be both prudent and humane.

Mr. D. R. WILLIAMS.--I agree with the gentleman from Massachusetts, who spoke last, that the amendment ought not to be adopted. It is incumbent on the gentleman who introduced it, (Mr. BIDWELL,) to tell us what is to be done with these negroes, if they are not to be forfeited. I say, it is his duty to inform us how they are to be disposed of. Give up the idea of forfeiture, and I challenge the gentleman to invent fines, penalties, or punishments of any sort, sufficient to restrain the slave trade. The same identical persons will break this law who have broken the act of 1794. And who are these persons? They are the gentleman’s own countrymen; they are the people of Rhode Island, who are concerned in this business. You cannot stop the trade by penalties. I have myself seen a ship of more than three hundred tons, the George Washington, sold for five dollars. Nobody would bid. The gentleman over the way shakes his head; he acknowledges the truth of my remarks on his countrymen.

Mr. BIDWELL knew nothing of the New England men being concerned in this trade. He lived in the interior of the country, and had little acquaintance with mercantile men. If they were concerned, he was willing that they should be punished by fine and penalties, and to any extent; but he was still opposed to a forfeiture of the negroes generally by a law of Congress. The States may determine, perhaps, whether it shall be done.

Mr. QUINCY, of Massachusetts.--I think I now understand the plan of my colleague, (Mr. BIDWELL,) and I like it less than before. It is “to leave them to the operation of the laws of the respective States.” This is only another form of expression of leaving them to be slaves. It is leaving the title of these persons according to the laws of the State into which they are imported. Is the gentleman sure this will not be an encouragement? It certainly will be, if the importer can find means to evade the penalty of the act; for there he has all the advantage of a market enhanced by our ineffectual attempt to prohibit. If he relies upon the penalty, I have no doubt it will be evaded. Persons without responsibility will be made captains of these ships, or other means devised to escape the penalty, and as his property is, by this amendment, secured to the owner, great profits will result from the traffic.

Mr. EARLY.--I did suppose that the United States would pass a law themselves, as soon as they had the power, to prohibit the slave trade effectually. But the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. BIDWELL) proposes that Congress shall relinquish all the credit of this measure, and resign it up to the States. This, I hope and trust, Congress will never agree to.

If the amendment prevails, I tell you that slaves will continue to be imported as heretofore. I tell the gentleman from Massachusetts, what every man in the Southern States knows already, that slaves will continue to be imported, unless you forfeit them. You cannot get hold of the ships employed in this traffic. Besides, slaves will be brought into Georgia from East Florida. They will be brought into the Mississippi Territory from the bay of Mobile. You cannot inflict any other penalty, or devise any other adequate means of prevention, than a forfeiture of the Africans in whose possession they may be found after importation. I tell you this is the only effectual method. I implore Congress to look seriously on this subject. I implore them, if they do any thing, to pass a law which will not disgrace themselves.

Mr. PITKIN, of Connecticut.--Mr. Chairman, I rise, sir, for the purpose of making a motion, which, I trust, will supersede the one now before the committee. It is, that the committee should rise, and that the bill before them be referred to a select committee. Under this motion, I presume it will be in order to state my reasons, generally, without being confined to the question of amending the fourth section of the bill, which is now before the committee.

As the persons thus brought into the country contrary to law, are to be “forfeited,” they are to be proceeded with, as appears by a subsequent section of the bill, “in the manner prescribed by the act, entitled, ‘An act to regulate the collection of duties on imposts and tonnage.’”

What, sir, is this process? They are to be seized by the revenue officers as goods, wares, and merchandise, imported contrary to law. They are to be libelled in the federal courts, are to be condemned, and then sold to the highest bidder by an officer of the court at public auction, and one-half of the avails, at least, is to be paid into the Treasury of the United States. This, sir, is a proposition, this is a mode of proceeding against those persons, to which I cannot bring my mind to consent, unless _absolute necessity_ should require it. What, sir, shall we, in a law made for the express purpose of preventing the slave trade, declare that these unfortunate blacks, brought into this country, not only against their own will, but against the express provisions of the law itself, shall be sold as slaves for the benefit of the United States, and the price of their slavery be lodged in the public coffers? I trust not, sir; I believe some other mode may be devised to prevent the slave trade. While I am unwilling to give my assent to this mode of disposing of them, I am free to confess that I feel the force of the remarks made by the Southern gentleman, that, unless some care should be taken of them after they are landed, the property, and perhaps the lives of those who live in States where slavery is permitted, would be insecure. And here, sir, I would suggest, whether, instead of selling those unfortunate beings as slaves, provision might not be made, that they should be disposed of for a term of years; say seven, eight, or ten years, until they should be able to support themselves, and at the end of the term they should be free. If Congress have power to prohibit their importation, they certainly have power to say, that the imported shall have no right or claim whatever in them; and also to declare what shall be their state and condition when imported. Indeed, sir, Congress have already determined this principle in May, 1800. They passed an act, in addition to an act, entitled “An act to prohibit the carrying on the slave trade from the United States, with any foreign place or country.”

Mr. EARLY.--In answer to the gentleman from Connecticut, I will acknowledge that there is an inconsistency in this bill. But it seems very wonderful that the gentleman has at last found it out. I offered an amendment, a short time since, in order to obviate this inconsistency; but, unless I am much mistaken, that very gentleman voted against it.

In the name of all the friends of this bill, I offer my most grateful acknowledgments to the gentleman for proving, in the most incontestable manner, the absolute necessity of that very provision in the bill which he opposes. He has shown, most undeniably, that you must forfeit the negroes, that you cannot possibly get at the vessel or the captain, to operate on them. In the name of common sense, I ask you, then, what can you find to operate on, but the negroes imported? and yet, with these truths staring them in the face, gentlemen are opposed to the measure. I wish the gentleman from Connecticut, from the immensity of the resources which he has displayed on this subject, would tell us what, beside the negroes, can be found for the law to operate upon.

I am willing that the committee rise, but not for the purpose mentioned. The gentleman moves you to rise, and refer the bill to a select committee; and for what? To determine the principle of the bill; not to specify the detail. What can the select committee report? Unless instructions are given them, they must report the same bill, and then you will be just where you are now.

The question being taken on the committee’s rising, it was carried--ayes 72.

Mr. PITKIN hoped they would not have leave to sit again.

Mr. SLOAN.--Notwithstanding the very high respect I entertain for the gentleman who reported this bill, I think it is easier to make an entire new one, than to undertake to amend this, so that it will answer.

The question being taken on the committee having leave to sit again, it was lost--ayes 45, noes 57.

The bill was then recommitted to a committee of seven, consisting of Messrs. EARLY, T. M. RANDOLPH, KELLY, J. CAMPBELL, KENAN, COCKE, and VAN RENSSELAER.

FRIDAY, December 19.

Another member, to wit, ABRAM TRIGG, from Virginia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, December 22.

_Manhattan Company._

Mr. CLINTON presented a petition from the President and Directors of the Manhattan Company in New York. The petition states that the law which directs that custom-house bonds shall be exclusively deposited in the United States Bank, affects their interests very injuriously; that the monthly deposits at New York amount, on an average, to $250,000. That the merchants dealing at the Manhattan Bank, make in Manhattan notes large payments on account of custom-house bonds into the United States Bank, which, by means of their notes; draws largely on the Manhattan Bank for specie; that, by these and similar means, the United States Bank regulates the discount, and contracts the business of all the other banking institutions in the city. That the reasons which once existed for giving the United States Bank a preference, have since ceased, by the sale of the public stock. But the stockholders in the United States Bank are now almost entirely foreigners, which circumstance is favorable to the erection of foreign influence in this country, and ought to excite alarm.

Mr. QUINCY was personally indifferent whether the petition was referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, but, as the subject manifestly affected the revenue, it was proper to refer it to that committee. It was a question very material to the revenue, whether the custom-house bonds should be deposited in the United States Bank. The contrary supposition implies that all banks are solid and secure.

Mr. CROWNINSHIELD conceived that the subject of the petition had no more relation to the Committee of Ways and Means than to that of Commerce and Manufactures, or any other standing committee of the House. Its object was, to procure relief against an injurious monopoly, possessed by a particular banking company. It neither proposed to give or take away one shilling of the public money. The Committee of Ways and Means were already pressed with a great deal of matter. Mr. C. did not wish to trouble the House with the United States Bank, but more than sixteen years they had enjoyed an exclusive monopoly, which has been very injurious to all other banking institutions, as has been very properly detailed in the petition. He meant to propose a plan for equalizing the benefits of the deposits. This is a subject which deeply interested the constituents of his colleague, (Mr. QUINCY.) The merchants of Boston cannot procure any large sums except from the United States Bank, which controls all the other banks in that town.

The SPEAKER informed Mr. CROWNINSHIELD that it was improper to speak of any gentleman’s district.

Mr. QUINCY observed, that all subjects relating to the revenue properly belonged to the Committee of Ways and Means. The present subject deeply implicates the revenue, because it all depends upon being safely deposited. His colleagues seemed to have a great fellow-feeling for the Committee of Ways and Means, and appeared to be anxious lest they should be pressed with too much business; but that committee had sufficient time to consider all the business referred to them.

The question being taken on referring the petition to the Committee of Ways and Means, it was lost--ayes 32. It was then referred to a select committee of nine.

TUESDAY, December 23.

Another member, to wit, EDWIN GRAY, from Virginia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

FRIDAY, December 26.

Another member, to wit, MATTHEW CLAY, from Virginia, appeared and took his seat in the House; and another new member, to wit, DENNIS SMELT, from Georgia, returned to serve in this House, as a member for the said State, in the room of Joseph Bryan, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, December 29.

Several other members, to wit, from Massachusetts, PHANUEL BISHOP; from New York, GURDON S. MUMFORD and NATHAN WILLIAMS, from New Jersey, WILLIAM HELMS; from Kentucky, JOHN FOWLER; and the Delegate from the Indiana Territory, BENJAMIN PARKE, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

_Importation of Slaves._

On motion of Mr. EARLY, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for the prohibition of the slave trade.

Mr. BIDWELL.--It appears to me that all the objections which have been urged against the amendment under consideration, may be reduced to two. 1. That a forfeiture is necessary to deprive the importers of every motive to introduce any slaves into the country, and thus render the prohibition completely effectual. 2. That if the slaves are emancipated and turned loose in the Southern States, they will be a destructive nuisance to the people of those States. Neither of these objections is, in my apprehension, well founded. If the motion to strike out prevails, another amendment may be made, declaring that the importer has no right to the slaves, which he introduces. This will be a declaration conformable to the state of things, and in exact accordance with the laws of nature and of nations. It is not in order to offer an amendment now, but if the present motion prevails, I design to propose an amendment to this effect. This will answer the purpose completely, and remove from the importer every temptation to engage in this traffic. The idea of forfeiture proceeds wholly on a false principle. It implies that the importer has a right to the slaves. But an amendment like that which I have suggested will declare the fact as it is; it will be conformable to truth. But if the section passes as it now is, with the clause of forfeiture retained, we recognize in our statute book a false principle, which neither the constitution nor the laws of the United States have ever authorized, to wit: that a property may be had in human beings. The constitution and laws have always left the disposition of slaves to the States, and hitherto have never recognized the principle of slavery.

But if we do not forfeit the negroes, the question is asked again and again, with an air of triumph, what is to be done with them? For my part I had rather strike out the section, and do nothing at all, than retain the forfeiture. If we do nothing we shall not increase the evil. They will then be left to the States to dispose of according to the State laws. This will not increase the evil. I am, however, willing to agree to any practicable mode of disposing of them. But at any rate, I am for striking out the forfeiture, and opposed to disgracing our statute book with a recognition of the principle of slavery.

Mr. QUINCY.--Since there is so general an agreement as to the end, I wish it were possible we could unite more perfectly as to the means. Those in favor of forfeiture are anxious for nothing so much as to prohibit totally the importation of slaves. Indeed, it is for this very reason they are in favor of it, because they assert, and to my mind on unquestionable ground, that this is your only effectual means of prohibition. They are also anxious that if they are brought they should not be made slaves in their part of the country. As to their being made free in the Southern States, that is out of the question. The policy of those States, the first duty of self-preservation, forbid it.

The argument of my colleague is, “forfeiture implies a right, vested in importers. Now it is disgraceful to the United States to admit such an implication. The importer has no right. He could acquire none. These persons are free by the law of nature--as free as any of us. The African prince who sold them was a usurper. The purchasers in Africa were trespassers against the law of nature. They cannot acquire any right of property in these persons, and it is shameful for the United States, by forfeiture, to admit it.” Sir, the conclusions of the gentleman are perfectly correct--his principles are solid. No man in this House denies either. Refer this question between the African prince and his subjects, and between the African and his importer, to five hundred juries in New England, and five hundred times a verdict would coincide with the principles and reasonings of my colleague. But the misfortune is, that, notwithstanding all these true and unquestionable principles, the African prince, at this day, does, and, after our law passes, will sell his subjects. To all practical purposes, a title is acquired in them, and they are passed, like other property, from one to another, in their native country. But this is not the worst. A title in this description of persons is not only allowed in Africa, but is, and must be, after your law passes, in a large section of your own country. The gentlemen from that part of the United States tell you that they cannot be allowed to be free among them. The first law, self-preservation, forbids it.

Now this is that real, practical state of things to which I invite gentlemen to look, and on which they ought to legislate.

I ask concerning it, how ought we to reason? What is our duty?

First. Do all you can to prohibit. Next, if you fail in this--if, in spite of your laws and their penalties, this description of persons be brought into the United States, then place yourselves in such a situation as may enable you best to meliorate the condition of this unhappy class of men, consistent with self-preservation, and with the deep stake which an important section of the country has in the policy which you adopt.

On both accounts forfeit. First, because it is the best means of prohibition. The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. EARLY) declares it is the only means by which you can do it effectually. The argument he used on this point, on a former day, is to my mind conclusive. From the situation of the Southern States, particularly Georgia, you can only prevent the traffic by taking away the inducement to purchase. And this can only be done by making the right of every purchaser be forfeited as a penalty. Next, if contrary to your laws they be imported, they are thrown on the humanity of the United States. They are brought here by our citizens, and it is the duty of the National Government to reserve the control of them, so as to be certain that the best is done for the amelioration of their condition that our own safety permits. On this account, forfeit. It is only as a commercial regulation that the National Government can get this control. If we do not take that title in these persons into the United States, which the laws of some States recognize, in those States they are slaves--they must be slaves. Those States can never permit them to be any thing else. This can only be done by forfeiture. The character of your policy will depend upon what you do with them after the forfeiture. Gentlemen reason as if those persons were inevitably to be sold under the hammer. Certainly this is not the necessary consequence. Are they not after forfeiture at your control? May you not do with them what is best for human beings in that condition in which these miserable creatures are, when they first arrive in this country, naked, helpless, ignorant of our language, our climate, our laws, our character, and our manners? Are you afraid to trust the National Government, and yet, by refusing to forfeit, will you throw them under the control of the States, all of whom may, and some of them will, and must, make them slaves?

But the great objection to forfeiture is, “it admits a title.” I answer, first, this does not necessarily follow. All the effect of forfeiture is, that whatever title can be acquired in the cargo shall be vested in the United States. If the argument of the gentleman be correct, and the species of cargo be such as that, from the nature of the thing, no title can be acquired in it, then nothing can vest in the United States; and the only operation of forfeiture is to divest the importer’s color of title by the appropriate commercial term--perhaps the only term we can use effectual to this purpose, and which does not interfere with the rights of the States. Grant that these persons have all the rights of man; will not these rights be as valid against the United States as against the importer; and by taking all color of title out of the importer, do we not place the United States in the best possible situation to give efficiency to the rights of man, in respect to the persons so imported?

But, next, let us agree that forfeiture does admit a species of title, lost on one side and acquired on the other; such as we cannot prevent being recognized in those States where these importations will most frequently take place; I ask, which is best, and which most humane? Admit a title, gain it for the United States, and then make these miserable creatures free, under such circumstances, and in such time, as their condition into which they are forced permits, or deny the possibility of acquiring a title, and leave them to be slaves? But my colleague (Mr. BIDWELL) has a sovereign specific for this. He says, “We do not make them slaves, we only leave them to the laws of the respective States.” But I ask, if the laws of all the States may, and those of some of the States do, and necessarily will make them slaves, “by leaving them to the operation of the laws of these States,” do we not as absolutely make them slaves as though we voted them to be such in this House? To my mind, when we have the power, if we fail to secure to ourselves the means of giving them their freedom, under proper modifications, we have an agency in making them slaves. To me it seems that the amendment proposed, striking out the forfeiture, will defeat the very end its advocates have in view. Really, sir, I fear it will happen to the honorable mover of the amendment (Mr. BIDWELL) as it happened to another celebrated asserter of African rights--I mean the renowned Knight of La Mancha. We all recollect that while that worthy knight was, with all the real honesty in the world, descanting on the moral fitness of things on the eternal, unalienable, imprescriptible rights of man!--that during all that time he was exercising himself and instructing others on these themes--the very persons he had undertaken to deliver--the great African Princess Micomicona, Queen of the great African Kingdom Micomicon, with her father, her mother, her brothers, her sisters, in short her whole family, were left in absolute and irretrievable slavery; their fetters not knocked off, nor their shackles lightened, nor one ray of light thrown in upon their prison. And yet the good knight, with all possible self-complacency, astride of his theories, was couching his lance, scouring the plain, the mirror of philanthropic chivalry, the very cream of the milk of human kindness!

Now, I say, sir, a little more practicable good, and a little less theoretic impulse. Reason and legislate according to the actual state of this description of persons. Place yourselves so as to do the best possible for their good. They are thrown on your mercy. Do not trust to others. You can be most certain this power will not be abused in your own hands. Forfeit--because this is the technical word for getting the control of them, and the only certain way of making them secure of your humanity. But what shall be done with them? That is a subsequent consideration. It is enough for me to know that this House can never do any thing with them which humanity and self-preservation do not dictate. Gentlemen will not pretend that these Africans have more rights by nature than our children. And yet, in every parish, poor children are bound out, without their consent, until they are of age, and of capacity to take care of themselves. These Africans are as helpless, ignorant, and incompetent as such children, and the wisdom of the National Legislature certainly can, and I have no doubt will, devise means to make them useful members of society, without any infringement of the rights of man.

Mr. MACON, (the Speaker.)--I still consider this a commercial question. The laws of nations have nothing more to do with it than the laws of the Turks or the Hindoos. We derive our powers of legislation not from the laws of nations, but from the constitution. If this is not a commercial question, I would thank the gentleman to show what part of the constitution gives us any right to legislate on this subject. It is in vain to talk of turning these creatures loose to cut our throats.

Suppose we leave them as the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. BIDWELL) has suggested, what will become of them? They will be smuggled in and made slaves. All the arguments which I have yet heard have served to confirm the opinion that a forfeiture is the only effectual mode of prohibition; and though our sincerity has been doubted with an if, yet I believe every member in this House is solicitous to put a complete stop to this nefarious traffic.

WEDNESDAY, December 31.

_Importation of Slaves._

The House proceeded to consider the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole on the twenty-ninth instant, to the bill to prohibit the importation or bringing of slaves into the United States, or the territories thereof, after the 31st of December.

Mr. SLOAN was decidedly opposed to the amendment. He was aware that some might charge him with departing from his well-known peaceable principles, in contending for so sanguinary a punishment as death. But many crimes inferior to this were punished with death, and he thought that there ought to be a proportion in these things. Mr. S. stated the hardships of the Africans, and the cruel circumstances attending their importation, and insisted on the magnitude of the crime at considerable length.

After some conversation between Mr. SMILIE and the SPEAKER, on a point of order, Mr. DANA called for a division of the question. The question was accordingly divided, the first being on striking out of the bill so much as inflicts the punishment of death.

Mr. ELY was against striking out. He deemed the crime in question as one of the most heinous kind, and one which ought to be punished capitally. But his principal reason for advocating so severe a punishment was, that he thought it the most effectual method of putting a stop to the trade. The other provisions of the bill were, in his opinion, not sufficient. If the punishment of death was inflicted, he presumed no persons would venture to engage in the trade, and run the risk of being punished, especially, as the traffic is one of the most uncertain and perilous kinds. It is said, if you punish with such severity, none will inform; but will any one venture to run the risk under this impression? Mr. E. thought not. Besides, this is the most humane punishment, because it will most effectually prevent the accumulation of miseries that result from the trade. It will, also, remove all the difficulties on the subject of forfeiture, by preventing the introduction of slaves.

Mr. TALLMADGE said he considered the question before the House to be, whether we should strike out that part of the section which attaches the crime of felony to this nefarious traffic, and, of course, annexes to it the punishment of death. He trusted the House would not consent to strike out that clause of the bill, the retention of which should receive his hearty support.

Since I have had the honor of a seat in this House, I can scarcely recollect an instance in which the members seem so generally to agree in the principles of a bill, and yet differ so widely as to its details. There seems to be great unanimity respecting the atrocity of the crime, but a wide difference of opinion as to the measures necessary to prevent it. To me, it is matter of surprise as well as of regret, that gentlemen, who appear so ardently engaged to prevent the introduction of slaves into our country, should not be willing to unite with us in providing for it an adequate punishment. The evils which may be expected to result from this commerce, if persisted in, will fall on the Southern States; and the Eastern and Middle States are accused of carrying it on. If this be the fact, and gentlemen are sincere in their declarations, why will they not unite with us to mete out that punishment which, on their own statements, will fall exclusively on those who are concerned in this execrable traffic from the Northern States?

Mr. MOSELY.--The only objection which has been made against this section of the bill, as it was originally introduced, is, that the severity of the penalty as there prescribed, would probably prevent the law from being carried into execution.

I entirely agree in the justice of the general remark, that it is the certainty, more than the severity, of the punishment, which tends to prevent the commission of crimes; that when the penalty is excessive or disproportioned to the offence, it will naturally create a repugnance to the law, and render its execution odious.

But I would ask, in the first place, what punishment can be considered as too severe to be inflicted on this inhuman and murderous traffic? Viewed in all its consequences, there is hardly to be found, I apprehend, in the whole catalogue of crimes, one attended with more accumulated guilt. I have, indeed, sir, heard no gentleman suggest any thing in palliation of this offence, or deny that it is justly deserving of death. Why, then, are we to presume that the law would not be enforced? The gentlemen from the South assure us that they, and the people whom they represent, are sincerely solicitous to prevent the further importation of slaves into this country, and they will cheerfully and cordially co-operate in the most effectual measures for that purpose. Will they, then, from motives of tenderness to the persons employed in importing them, be unwilling to subject those persons to the punishment they justly merit?

Sir, there is one circumstance worthy of attention, which I think must obviate every objection of this sort. Who are the people engaged in this business? We have been repeatedly told, and told with an air of some triumph, by gentlemen from the South, that it is not their citizens; that they have no concern in this nefarious traffic; that it is the people from the Northern States who import these negroes into the Southern States, and thereby seduce their citizens to become their purchasers. If this be the fact, are we to believe that they will entertain any particular feelings of partiality or passion towards this class of people, or that they will not feel a just degree of indignation towards them, and be disposed to subject them to the most exemplary punishment? And as it respects the great body of the people in the Northern States, at least, I will presume to say, of the State which I have the honor to represent, should any of their citizens be convicted upon this law, so far from charging their Southern brethren with cruelty or severity in hanging them, they would acknowledge the favor with gratitude. When we consider the character of the persons engaged in this traffic, that they are the most hardened and abandoned of the human species, and that it is extremely lucrative, can we suppose that any penalty short of death will deter them from it? I shall be very glad if even this will have the effect.

Mr. LLOYD.--Though this traffic is sanctioned by the Constitution and laws of the United States, I regard it with hatred and abhorrence, and conceive it to be of the highest importance that we take means to put a complete stop to its further continuance. But, in my opinion, the punishment of death is not best calculated to accomplish this object. Besides, it is not proportional to the crime. This subject has not, I conceive, been fairly argued. Very few of the negroes brought into this country are kidnapped and stolen away. Look at the condition of the people of Africa. Three-fourths of those brought into this country are slaves originally, either by descent or conquest. It is a fact that slavery prevails extensively in Africa. Those taken in conquest are disposed of and sent abroad on account of the vindictive spirit of those people. Such is their thirst for revenge, that this is absolutely necessary for the safety of the conqueror. Of course, all the arguments urged on the ground of the slaves being kidnapped and carried away from a state of freedom, are fallacious.

Mr. OLIN.--I would ask gentlemen if they would not as soon be willing to be brought to the halter as to be made slaves for life? If they would, and I trust they would, man-stealing is a crime as bad as murder, and ought to be punished as heavy. I was at first against the punishment of death; but I own that gentlemen have convinced me by their arguments, and I am now the other way. I am persuaded that gentlemen will think there is nothing dishonorable in this changing one’s mind.

Mr. EARLY.--I formerly thought that the decision on this question was not a matter of any great importance; but as it seems now to be considered as a prelude to an attack on subsequent parts of the bill, it appears to me now important that the subject be well understood and rightly decided.

What are you told? You are now told that a forfeiture is unnecessary, and that to inflict the punishment of death is the only way to stop this trade. I consider this as an old attack revived in a new form. I hope the House will pardon me for undertaking to assign reasons for the bill as reported.

I should like to know how the fear of death will operate on a man who is bound with his slaves to a country where he knows the punishment will not be enforced. He will be bound to a country where the people see slaves every hour of their lives; where there is no such abhorrence of the crime of importing them, and where no man dare inform. My word for it, I pledge it to-day, and I wish it may be recollected; no man in the Southern section of the Union will dare inform. It would cost him more than his life is worth. No man would risk it when it led to the punishment of death, when it was not for an offence which nature revolts at. They do not consider it as a crime.

The gentleman (Mr. SMILIE) has said that, in the Southern States, slavery is felt and acknowledged to be a great evil, and that therefore we will execute a severe law to prevent an increase of this evil. Permit me to tell the gentleman of a small distinction in this case. A large majority of the people in the Southern States do not consider slavery as a crime. They do not believe it immoral to hold human flesh in bondage. Many deprecate slavery as an evil; as a political evil; but not as a crime. Reflecting men apprehend, at some future day, evils, incalculable evils, from it; but it is a fact that few, very few, consider it as a crime.

It is best to be candid on this subject. If they considered the holding of men in slavery as a crime, they would necessarily accuse themselves, a thing which human nature revolts at. I will tell the truth. A large majority of people in the Southern States do not consider slavery as even an evil. Let the gentleman go and travel in that quarter of the Union; let him go from neighborhood to neighborhood, and he will find that this is the fact.

Mr. HOLLAND.--In the Southern States slavery is generally considered as a political evil, and in that point of view nearly all are disposed to stop the trade for the future. But have capital punishments been usually inflicted on offences merely political? I believe not. Fine and imprisonment are the common punishments in such cases. The people of the South do not generally consider slavery as a moral offence. The importer might say to the informer that he had done no worse, nor even so bad as he. It is true that I have these slaves from Africa; but I have transported them from one master to another. I am not guilty of holding human beings in bondage. But you are. You have hundreds on your plantations in this miserable condition. By your purchases you tempt traders to increase the evil. You and your ancestors have introduced this calamity into the country, and you are continuing, you are augmenting it. The importer might hold the same language to the jury and the judge who try him. He might tell them that they were even more guilty than he. Under such circumstances the law inflicting death would not be executed. But if you punish by fine and imprisonment only, you will find the people of the South willing and ready to execute the law.

Mr. DWIGHT.--We are all happily agreed in the great object of the bill--the prevention of the importation of slaves into the United States. Unfortunately, we are not so well agreed in the means to effect this object. It is not, however, at all strange that men should differ about the best mode to accomplish so important a purpose; and especially men in the circumstances in which we are placed. Those of us who come from the Northern and Eastern States, where slavery exists not at all, or but in a slight degree, would naturally view this subject in a very different light from gentlemen who represent the Southern States, where slavery always has existed, and that to a great extent. As great a degree of unanimity as is possible is of much importance, both for the purpose of effectually preventing this inhuman traffic, and for the honor and reputation of our country.

The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. EARLY) has informed us repeatedly that a law making this a capital offence cannot be executed in the Southern States; that the importation of slaves has so long been familiar to them, that a great majority of the people consider it not as an aggravated crime, and a large portion of them as no crime at all; that if we make such an offence capital; if we make the consequence of importing a cargo of slaves to be the loss of life, no man will ever be prosecuted for it, because no man will dare inform. All the gentlemen, sir, from the Southern States, who have spoken on this subject, have told us that they earnestly wish effectually to prevent the slave trade in future. I am disposed to credit them fully. Indeed, I cannot conceive that they should not sincerely and fervently wish to prevent a traffic, which, if persisted in, must in all human probability, first or last, bring upon them and their families the most tremendous calamities. If, then, they view the subject in this light, if they are sincere in making these declarations, there is not only no danger that the law will not be executed, but they will unite to a man to execute the law; the whole community will inform; a regard to their own lives, and the lives of their posterity, will drive them to it. And if, sir, in the rigid execution of this statute, its penalties fall upon men from the Eastern States, who are profligate enough to engage in this inhuman trade, I most heartily concur with my colleague in saying, let the law have its full force, let it fall with all its force upon the offender; let him die.

The question being taken by yeas and nays, on striking out so much of the first section as inflicts the punishment of death on owners and masters of vessels employed in the slave trade, it was carried--yeas 63, nays 53, as follows: