Chapter XXXVIII: Section 2: A III f (3)

SAUCKEL: I believe that this Central Planning Board was founded about three months after my taking over my office. The Board was founded in accord with a law by the Fuehrer or just upon an agreement between the Fuehrer and Speer and Goering, I don’t know which. The leader and chairman of this Central Planning Board was Speer himself. It was founded to transfer the work from the Four Year Plan to Speer, I think, because Goering was already ill at that time, and there also were difficulties about which I am not informed. Speer always took on the job of making great changes in production and put it under his own direction. Constant members of this Central Planning Board were the State Secretary and Field Marshal Milch, and State Secretary Koerner. These three were responsible for the decisions of the Central Planning Board and for internal matters and they went through this office if they were worked out by other people inside the office. I was only called to this Central Planning Board when my task was discussed, and the demands were put before me and my agencies by Speer, the Four Year Plan [Office], as well as by Milch. The Fuehrer himself told me to fulfil these demands without question. In other words, if Speer asked me for a certain amount of workers, for instance, several thousand, I could not refuse him. The particular minister had to give the number to the Central Planning Board and that was the only place where the number of workers could be discussed. In the Central Planning Board it was decided how many workers I was able to supply to these various sections like Milch and Speer, agriculture, and so on. If it came to an argument, these discussions were brought before the Fuehrer and he then decided himself.

Q. Would the Central Planning Board, in their outline of workers to be provided for agriculture and for Speer and for Milch’s industries, etc., just give you the numbers of workers which they required, or would you get the final destination of the workers too, say panzers [tanks] and machine guns, and so on, from the Central Planning Board?

A. In general, I always got the numbers for the sections in large, except for Speer who always demanded individual allocations of workers to agriculture or mining; in other words, Speer always demanded a certain number of workers for a certain kind of work.

Q. Except for Speer, they would give the requirements in general for the broad field, but in Speer’s work you would get them allocated by industry, and so on. Is that right?

A. The others only received whatever was left over, because Speer told me once in the presence of the Fuehrer that I am here to work for Speer and that I mainly am his man, he mentioned it very often, without reference to the countries involved. It was very unnatural, that process of doing these things. These smaller plants, instead of ordering their workers from the next higher echelons, gave their orders to the very highest, to Speer, who in turn handed them down to the lower ones and to me, and this was the reason for the Rotzettel (red slip) system which had to be fulfilled by me without question. In practice it came to this that if a factory actually didn’t need any workers but Speer demanded them for that factory I had to supply these workers without being able to discuss or to tell him that it would be a waste of manpower; I just had to do it because Speer had complete domination.

Q. When it was determined in the Central Planning Board that say a thousand workers would be required by Speer, how did these workers find their way from all over Germany and Europe into the Krupp factory, for instance?

A. The orders were given from higher echelons down to lower echelons; for instance, the transports were either turned over from one office to another or the lower echelons in Berlin, for instance, got orders to transfer certain men from one factory which happened to be in Berlin to another factory which was also in Berlin. This happened also through the cooperation among the various offices who were headed by Hildebrand. The orders were discussed in a so-called daily schedule of trains which was decided upon in all these meetings.

Q. Well, as I understand it, you would get a requirement for say a thousand workers for panzers, say; now, in Germany certain factories would be making tread, some would be making turrets, and some would be making other things. Now, of that thousand workers needed for tank production some would be working on treads and some would be working on other things. How did they get into the particular factories which were making the specific products?

A. This was accomplished by giving orders recklessly through the various offices. A factory, for instance, got an order to send 20 or 30 men to another place, and they were just ordered to go there. This was the reason for the Notdienstverordnung [Emergency Service Decree] where the workers were forced by a decree to obey any order which was given to them.

Q. After the workers were conscripted inside the Reich and outside, they would be worked according to certain skills and technical specialties, would they not?

A. As far as possible, they were used according to the profession they had been trained in.

Q. And the local Gau labor offices, etc., would have a list of all the workers according to their skills, would they not?

A. Yes, there were detailed files about this. This was the basic principle: There were various offices which only were concerned about a certain kind of trade or skill.

Q. So, when you got the request from the Central Planning Board for a hundred thousand men for tank production, would you, through your ministry, tell the various offices that you needed so many welders and so many machine tool people, etc., and then tell them how many of each specialty you wanted?

A. When I got these orders my assistants were always present and they in turn took down the individual numbers required for this kind of work. I also received rosters which pointed out in detail how many people were needed for certain productions and how many were needed in a certain place. There was also, besides the red-slip system, another one, which was a system used after the red-slip system. We called this the Dringlichkeitsstufen—that means the priority system for workers. These Dringlichkeitsstufen, which were divided according to place and kind of work, were given to me in the presence of my assistants and they in turn worked out these plans. The influence of Speer was so great that sometimes he specifically asked for certain specialists from a certain factory to be turned over to another place. It also happened that we were not even told about these things. If we were not able to supply him with workers from inside Germany, we had to take them from the other departments or from foreign countries. There was always a reserve of something like 500,000 people who went to schools where they were trained for the armament production.

Q. That was 500,000 German and foreign workers?

A. Yes.

Q. When a requirement was fixed for Speer or for Milch in the Central Planning Board and they called you in and said we need 500,000, or some number of workers, would they give at that time the breakdown of what kind of workers they wanted, or would they give a blanket request for 500,000 without the listing of specialties?

A. Naturally, they gave a detailed breakdown. For instance, they only asked for miners, but they also asked for specialists in that kind of work.

Q. The requirements would be stated in detail for the kind of work, not only whether it should be a mine worker, but, for instance, a locomotive engineer in a mine, or something like that, would they not?

A. Naturally, since there are many kinds of professions; I, for instance, put in charge of the mining President Dr. Gaertner who was always oriented about the different jobs which were required in that field of work.

Q. Then after you got the detailed specification of the qualifications of the workers desired, would you also get a statement as to what places they would work in, and so on?

A. This was just the remarkable thing about it, especially from Speer; factories were always mentioned and they were also mentioned by priority; for instance, the ones that always were working on the so-called Fuehrer orders had priority over the others. Speer actually controlled the small places, not step by step, but directly from the highest echelon.

Q. So that you would be informed at the Central Planning Board, at least for Speer’s factories, about the specialists and the place to which they were supposed to be sent, is that right?

A. The Central Planning Board determined only the numbers for a certain time, three months or so. These orders were then forwarded to the individual offices, who were working for me, from all kinds of industries; the Central Planning Board met only every two weeks or so.

Q. The Central Planning Board would decide that Speer would get so many hundred thousand and Milch would get so many hundred thousand, and that the agricultural program would get so many hundred thousand. Then, that was agreed upon, if they all agreed upon it among themselves in the Central Planning Board, and had no disputes regarding the number. But if there were disputes, then the Fuehrer would decide?

A. Yes.

Q. Then, after they decided a hundred thousand for Speer, then the section chiefs (in the rings for tank treads, and machine guns, etc.) would meet with your section later and say we need so many hundred thousand, we need 10,000 who are welders and 10,000 who are metal workers, etc., is that right?

A. Yes. A daily conference was held among the different offices where it was decided how many workers were needed for the individual industries. It did not occur that when a factory asked for a certain amount of men, it was like that: Speer said this factory has to be supplied with so and so many workers. In peacetime it was different.

Q. And the requirements of Speer were met as a matter of priority among all the other industries; first Speer and then the others?

A. Yes.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NI-1098
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 63

EXTRACTS FROM AFFIDAVIT OF FRITZ SAUCKEL, 22 SEPTEMBER 1946, REGARDING
THE JURISDICTION OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD

A. 1. I, Fritz Sauckel, born in Hassfurt-Unterfranken on 27 October 1894 was honorary Obergruppenfuehrer of the SS and SA, Reich Governor [Reichsstatthalter], Commissioner for Reich Defense and Gauleiter of Thuringia. Since 1942 I was Plenipotentiary General for Manpower and from 1933 on I was a member of the Reichstag. I state upon oath the following facts which are known to me personally:

* * * * *

L. 1. The Central Planning Board intervened in the problem of foreign workers to the extent of determining priorities and in representing and demanding the requirements of the economics branches consolidated in the Central Planning Board. It also transmitted these demands to the Fuehrer. The competent gentlemen of the Central Planning Board at the same time of course represented their ministries as heads. Thus I am not in a position today to say whether Speer, for instance, spoke in one or the other capacity in connection with any special matter. At any rate the Central Planning Board determined the total labor requirements. In practice I only obtained labor for them.

2. I attended sessions of the Central Planning Board only when questions concerning the mobilization of labor were involved. Sometimes only my representatives, Dr. Timm, Landrat Berk, Stothfang, or Dr. Hildebrand, attended.

3. The competent gentlemen from Speer’s Ministry also attended. Speer had a labor mobilization department where the requirements of industry were collected and confirmed.

4. Milch produced the figures for aviation. The same was done by Speer in his sphere of activity. Speer and Milch, however, also exerted influence on the allocation of workers. How far this came within their capacity as members of the Central Planning Board I cannot say; in any case they did this in their ministerial capacity.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

EXTRACTS FROM REPORT ON THE ELEVENTH CONFERENCE
OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD, 22 JULY 1942

Berlin 24 July 1942
Dr. Goe/W

Reich Minister Speer Minister’s Office

Secret
_REPORT ON THE 11TH CONFERENCE OF THE “CENTRAL
PLANNING BOARD” ON 22 JULY 1942_

Present:

Reich Minister Speer Field Marshal Milch State Secretary Koerner Kommerzialrat Roechling Reich Association Iron Dr. Rohland Reich Association Iron Von Bohlen und Halbach Reich Association Iron Dr. Langen Reich Association Iron Bergassessor Sohl Reich Association Iron Gauleiter Sauckel Plenipotentiary General for Labor Mobilization State Secretary Backe Reich Food Ministry General Director Pleiger Reich Association Coal Dr. Fischer Reich Association Coal Major General Gablenz Reich Air Ministry Colonel Sellschopp Reich Air Ministry Ministerial Director Gramsch 4 Year Plan Ministerial Advisor Normann 4 Year Plan Dr. Schieber Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Dr. Stellwaag Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Major Wagner Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Brigadier General Becht Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Lieutenant Colonel Nicolai Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Ministerial Advisor Dr. Wissmann Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Schlieker Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Dr. Goerner Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions

* * * * *

Securing of food. A net influx of 1 million foreign workers is counted on. This number was not reached in the past months. Even with an influx of more than 1 million in the coming months, the 1-million peak will actually not be surpassed in view of current departures of workers. Food for this 1 million is secured.[93]

To what extent an improvement of the food situation, through a sharper hold on the production outside of Germany, could be accomplished.

* * * * *

Every day a train load of the forces recruited in the East will be directed to the coal mines until the figure of 6,000 is achieved. Prisoners of war are being obtained, at present, from camps in the General Government. 51,000 prisoners of war in the Senne Camp. In the district east of the General Government there are 74,000 prisoners of war available. Up till now an elimination quota of 50 percent of unemployable people has been reckoned with in the allocations to coal mining. It is considered necessary that not too high demands should be placed on the choice of prisoners of war. The Miner’s Union doctors [Knappschaftsaerzte] are to be informed that a different standard is to be established for the prisoners of war than for German miners.

For the consecutive order in which the prisoners of war are to be put to work, it will be laid down, that before the metal workers are chosen, the coal mining in the first place and requirements for the loading and unloading commands in the second place are to be considered.

Field Marshal Milch undertakes to accelerate the procuring of the Russian prisoners of war from the camps.

[Typewritten] DR. ING. GOERNER

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

EXTRACTS FROM REPORT ON THE SEVENTEENTH CONFERENCE
OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD, 28 OCTOBER 1942

Berlin, 30 October 1942

The Plenipotentiary General for the Four Year Plan Central Planning Board

_REPORT ON THE 17TH CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL
PLANNING BOARD ON 28 OCTOBER 1942, 0930 HOURS_

Increase of Coal Production
_Allocation of Labor_

Coal production in the Ruhr district has increased to 390,000 tons per day. Any further increase depends on whether the requirements for labor are being met. About 104,000 men are required. Furthermore 7,800 men—originally 16-17,000 requirements having been brought down by rationalization—are needed for the supplying industry, 6,800 of these for the machine industry. 5,000 more unskilled workers are furthermore required to secure the transport of mine-timber which is essential for reason of variety [Sortimentsgruenden].

The intake capacity of the mining industry for the month of November is 44,000 prisoners of war, of whom 25,000 are for the Ruhr district, and 12,600 eastern workers, 7,500 of whom are for the Ruhr district. Total requirements so far amount to 191,000 laborers of whom 90,700 were wanted by the Ruhr District. Up to 24 October a total of 123,000 was allocated. These numbers are still to be checked up by the Reich Association Coal (RVK) and Mr. Sauckel.

According to the Plenipotentiary for Labor Allocation, the following number of prisoners of war is at present at hand.

Within the Reich (on the way and in camp) 30,000
Remainder of prisoners of war (outstanding from a total of 60,000
150,000 and promised up to the beginning of December)
At camps in the General Government 15,000

Of these the following can be regarded as available up to 1 December:

Within the Reich 15,000
Of the remaining prisoners of war 10,000
From the General Government 7,500
———
Total about 32,000

Therefore, as compared to the required 44,000, there is a deficit of about 12,000. Moreover, 10,000 civilian laborers from the East can be put up by exchanges from the agricultural sector which is 2,000 less than required so that the November deficit amounts to 14,000 and, in comparison with the total requirements of the mining industry of 104,000, there is a deficit of 62,000. The deficit increases by the smaller number of prisoners of war the size of which is still to be ascertained by the Commissioner of Labor.

The mining industry is in a position to use any amount of eastern labor instead of prisoners of war. Therefore, it is to get preference at the combing-out of the agricultural sector. There is no objection to a temporary accommodation of eastern labor at prisoner-of-war camps (without barbed wire, etc.).

The requirements of the supply industry are to be met by the Red Label method [Rotzettelverfahren]. Constructors are to be provided by canvassing at the French prisoner-of-war camps for officers.

[Typewritten] DR. STEFFLER

* * * * *

Present:

Reich Minister Speer
Field Marshal Milch
State Secretary Koerner Reich Ministry for Armament and
Munitions
Staatsrat Schieber Reich Ministry for Armament and
Munitions
Brig. Gen. Becht Reich Ministry for Armament and
Munitions
Lt. Col. v. Nicolai Reich Ministry for Armament and
Munitions
Herr Schlieker Reich Ministry for Armament and
Munitions
Oberberghauptmann Gabel Reich Economic Ministry
Colonel Dr. Krull Reich Economic Ministry
Oberbergrat Otto Reich Economic Ministry
State Secretary Ganzenmueller Reich Traffic Ministry
Staatsrat Heinberg Reich Traffic Ministry
Min. Dir. Gramsch Four Year Plan
Min. Rat Steffler Four Year Plan
Min. Dirig. Timm Plenipotentiary for Labor Allocation
Oberreg. Rat Hildebrand Plenipotentiary for Labor Allocation
Gen. Dir. Pleiger Reich Association Coal
Dr. Sogemeier Reich Association Coal
Dr. Fischer Reich Association Coal
Dir. Winkaus Plenipotentiary for Mining Requirements

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF TWENTY-FIRST
CONFERENCE OF CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD, 30 OCTOBER 1942

_EXCERPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE 21ST
CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD_

Re: Labor supply and direction of labor held on 30 October 1942, afternoon, at the Reich Ministry of Armament and Munitions.

Berlin, Pariser Platz 3

* * * * *

SAUCKEL: There is but one possibility, and that is, that the moment the Wehrmacht takes prisoners in operational territory, they are to be immediately turned over to us. We will move them away much faster than the Wehrmacht.

MILCH: The correct thing to do would be to have all Stalags transferred to you by order of the Fuehrer. The Wehrmacht takes prisoners and as soon at it relinquishes them, the first delivery goes to your organization. Then everything will be in order.

SAUCKEL: Yes, but we do not have sufficient personnel for guarding the prisoners.

(MILCH: The Wehrmacht should have to provide you with that!)

SAUCKEL: As soon as prisoners of war are taken, they should be placed at our disposal and we would then allocate them in a fair manner. However, with the present method we get nothing or only a fraction of what the Wehrmacht had promised us, although the prisoners had been taken by the Wehrmacht.

TIMM: We can hardly hope to achieve that, since this might have something to do with the convention concerning the treatment of prisoners of war.

MILCH: The man who acts there for you can wear a uniform all right and be a soldier. Only his superior will not be Herr Reinecke but Herr Sauckel.

For psychological reasons emphasis should be placed on first of all covering the requirements of the Wehrmacht branches, without other considerations. The feeling, we don’t get it anyway, has gradually permeated our whole air force industry—and I heard the same about the army. I will admit that these gigantic allocations are completely misjudged. For example, in the Luftwaffe where from an original allocation of 480,000, a balance of 150,000 was left over [per Saldo uebrig]. The plants always look only at the balance [Saldo]. However, there are many plants also who have suffered an actual decrease in manpower, especially in a young industry like ours, which is occupied with the manufacture of very special products. This industry has many young people, of whom many again have been drafted into the Wehrmacht. This drafting is done in such an idiotic way that one actually has to feel ashamed. All three experimenting engineers working on a development which may have an important bearing on the outcome of the war are simply drafted. They are not sent to the front or into training but sit around in the back somewhere and are guarding some camp. No consideration whatsoever is given to individual cases. Of course the plants then call for replacements. The masses cannot fill these breaches, and qualified replacements we cannot supply at all. Herr Dr. Werner, for example, writes a letter to Herr Schieber of which he forwards a copy to me and which states that production figures established in the delivery schedules can no longer be met, owing to the fact that for weeks partially even for months, no manpower has been allocated, and that even current withdrawals cannot be replaced by the labor offices [Arbeitsaemter]. The fact, that we can no longer meet the demands of the rising production, that backlogs are increasing more and more, fills him with rising apprehension. He then goes into details, but always reverts to the same conclusion: everything might be accomplished, we could even get the necessary material; in the final analysis we fail, however, in one important aspect in connection with our whole armament program—the allocation of manpower. If only we had, if only we had—thus it goes all day and in every conference.

I am convinced that many people are beginning to put in fake requests and exaggerate their requirements. There is only one way to straighten out this affair. In my department, I do it this way: if for months a spare part cannot be found, the entire front begins to hoard this article; so, for instance, the tail skid of a Ju 52. Then we proceeded to manufacture triple the amount of the expected requirements, yet no tail skids were available. Ordnance stock piles were filled with it; but they did not issue any. I then said: We will now manufacture nothing but tail skids until we hear shouts not to send any more. Thus, an affair like that gets finally straightened out. And here likewise we must say for once: We will supply the required laborers to the industry, if necessary by depriving other fields. Agriculture, at the moment can spare laborers; it does not need them from 15 November to 15 March of next year. It is just a waste to have to feed them. Only a small number will be needed for the procurement of wood. Thus we are able to generously help industry and later on again replenish agriculture. At the same time we have the advantage of getting fairly well-fed people. As Herr Timm recently explained, prisoners of war from the Ukraine would not serve our purpose; they could not regain their physical strength on what they get to eat in the industry. Even supplying them with better food than we give to our own people would not be sufficient to get them beyond a still weakened condition. In agriculture they get additional food. Don’t muzzle the mouth of a beast when food lies all around it. This is also of advantage to prisoners of war and workers from the East.

However, we have to finally do away with the general feeling: we have nothing and we want yet anything; we have been forsaken by God and the Fuehrer; constantly more and more is demanded of us; how can we still believe in this great program? We can only carry it out if we have such faith in it, as is spoken of in the Bible. In January we started with a monthly production of 2,000 engines; today we have reached 4,000, and in a year and a half I must reach 14,000. That of course is a gigantic achievement for a month. Every engine has at least 1,200 h.p. If in measurements of horsepower I compare the present with the former World War, then the present achievement is 40 times as great. What an immense amount of manpower was available at that time for an industry so totally different from ours! Yet today we must come up to more than three times that, which we have already done. That means, that in airplane engines alone we have to achieve 135 to 140 times as much as we did in the World War. Dr. Werner who is responsible for the engine industry proposed how this can be done. He said: We must apply a mass production scale everywhere, or else we will not accomplish it. He has very progressive ideas in this field. With the airplane engine, it can be done for sure. Crankshafts and connecting rods, etc., we can produce on a mass production scale. Today we manufacture 40,000 connecting rods. However, we still have no machines today that assemble these products individually on the assembly line. The Americans have such machines. We are lacking about 10 construction engineers and 5 mechanics; they just simply cannot be procured. One must for once satisfy the needs of the people again. I have always put them off until November and told them that Sauckel would produce the necessary labor from agriculture.

* * * * *

SPEER: We must also discuss the slackers. Ley has ascertained that the sick list decreased to one-fourth or one-fifth in factories where doctors are on the staff who are examining the sick men. There is nothing to be said against SS and police taking drastic steps and putting those known as slackers into concentration camps. There is no alternative. Let it happen several times and the news will soon go around.

* * * * *

SAUCKEL: We talked of taking the waiters out of the restaurants in Germany. But in this respect we have absolutely an abundance in France, the General Government and the Protectorate. As long as we have not skimmed that off, we could not take the responsibility towards the German people for such a measure. Again a cable of the Foreign Minister has burst into my recent negotiations in France stating that under no circumstances should the Ministry Laval be put into peril. The Fuehrer has said: If the French show no good will, then I shall retake the 800,000 French PW’s. If they show good will, then the French wives can follow their husbands to Germany and work there. Of course, he said, I have an interest that Laval remains in power. The Ministry Laval will remain, it depends only on us. And Laval cannot go back after he has reproduced in his speech and spoken before the French passages which he has taken verbally out of my appeal. Only Pétain could bring him to fall. I wish to draw your attention to the fact, however, that in France there is a surplus of young men all of whom we could use in Germany. If we expect our people to accept severest restrictions then we cannot admit such luxuries in Paris as, e.g., small restaurants with bands of 25 musicians and two waiters per table. I am firmly convinced, if we are brutal also against the others then we can extract quite a considerable number of men out of the General Government—I sent an efficient man, President Struwe, over there—and of the Protectorate. This need not interfere with the armament industry over there. There is, therefore, no fear that the demand could not be met.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-B

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE TWENTY-THIRD CONFERENCE OF THE
CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD, 3 NOVEMBER 1942

Secret
_STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE 23D CONFERENCE OF
CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD_

_Concerning the fixing of iron quotas, on 3 November 1942, 1600_
_hours in the Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions,_
_Berlin, Pariser Platz 3_

* * * * *

PLEIGER: * * * For the physical strain on the miners, who practically work two Sunday shifts each month, is such that they could not stand it for another six months. In other words—this is the important point—the quota of approximately 95,600 men is still lacking and must be assigned to work now at last; it was promised to me at one time. The gentlemen of the Ruhr tell me: We have our huts ready. Some of them are not completely furnished, and I reproached the people for it. They answered, however: But you promised us workers for about half a year. We have always been ahead with our huts. How can you reproach us now, our huts were not ready. The workers assigned to us will be taken care of. I would be very thankful if Sauckel would be induced to assign to us the quota of workers.

SPEER: He received the instruction in the last conference of the Central Planning Board to assign workers first of all to the coal-mining industry as well as to the iron-producing industry, for you the amount of 44,000 plus 12,000, plus 7,500 for the feeder industry, plus 5,000 for pit props. The same holds true for Mr. Rohland.

PLEIGER: In our conferences it must always be taken as a basis that the Reichsbahn, with regard to the allocation of cars, is at least in the same position as they were last year.

(SPEER: That’s pretty bad.)

—No, it allocated over 80,000 cars in December.

* * * * *

SPEER: Can you give me by name any smelters or other people which could be taken out?

(ROHLAND: Yes.)

This would still be another 50 or 100, I guess.

ROHLAND: I figure about 40 men per Martin furnace. If we take away 20 or 15—let’s say 20—as trained Martin furnace smelters, we would have 300 men. 300 smelters could help us a lot. But when will they come?

SPEER: Then we could deceive the French about the industry in such a way, as if we would release among the prisoners of war the rollers and smelters—they have—if they give us their names.

ROHLAND: We opened our own office in Paris. In other words, you mean the French should report the smelters who are prisoners of war in Germany?

MILCH: I would simply say: You will get two people for one of this kind.

SPEER: The French firms know exactly who is a smelter among the prisoners of war. There you should make it appear, as if they would be released. They give us the names and then we take them out. Try it.

ROHLAND: That’s an idea.

MILCH: We in the Luftwaffe and airplane industry will also try to find out: Who is a roller, smelter, or furnace mason.

ROHLAND: But by the time the people arrive, the quarter of the year will be over.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE THIRTY-THIRD
CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD,
16 FEBRUARY 1943

Secret!

Top Secret State Matter

_STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE 33D CONFERENCE[94]
OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD_

_Concerning Labor Supply on 16 February 1943 at 1600 hrs. at the_
_Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions 3,_
_Pariser Platz, Berlin_

* * * * *

TIMM: I should like to say something about the labor supply possibilities. Perhaps you will permit me to emphasize the negative side a little. The greatest difficulties result from the fact that the supply of labor outstanding could not be fully dispatched from the East, but came in in ever diminishing numbers. One may say that they have almost become completely exhausted. Eastern laborers during the last six weeks arrived only in smaller numbers than in former times, so that they can hardly be included to an appreciable amount on the credit side of the supply account. In any case their numbers are small. The foremost reason is that in former months most transports were dispatched from the Ukraine while the main recruitment areas were those which in the meantime have become operational areas, or even are no longer in our hands. The forecasts we made applied to a large extent to the transport of people from the Caucasus district, the Kuban, from areas like Stalingrad. We prepared measures which should enable us to draw more eastern workers again during the following months. I venture to think that we should be able, on a conservative calculation, to transfer during the month of March between 150,000 and 200,000 laborers from the East to the West.

(SPEER: Including or excluding those needed for agriculture?)

Including those needed for agriculture. But in my opinion it will be necessary to apply much pressure, since just those districts are concerned which have been pacified to a certain extent, and for the same reason will not be very much inclined to release labor. This is calculated on the assumption that some labor has to be released also from the eastern and northern parts of the East.

The second area, capable of releasing a considerable amount of labor is the General Government and that for the January estimate which has been drawn up with particular caution as I again wish to emphasize. We expect that the figures will be surpassed rather than not reached. I think we can expect a number of 40,000, of which, it is true, a part will have to be given to agriculture, if we intend no more than to cover the losses which we had to inflict last autumn.

Beyond this it ought to be possible in my opinion to employ within the Reich, and especially for the mining industry, part of the Polish Building Service. I venture to think one ought to enlarge this organization in such a way that more age groups than so far are called up for it, since this procedure is functioning. The younger age groups which in fact are especially suited for mining could be dispatched to the Reich. In this case the supervisors who are provided for the greatest part by the Building Service, will be needed only in very small numbers in the Reich.

The next area would be the Protectorate on which I cannot make a final statement today. We have been promised for the month of March about 10,000 laborers. But I am of the opinion that some loosening-up is possible. The Plenipotentiary will soon in a personal visit take in hand the possibility of this loosening-up.

France is included in the account with 100,000 laborers for March. Messages which I received permit us to hope that this number will be increased in the middle of March. Belgium is included with 40,000, Holland with 30,000, Slovakia with 20,000, who, it is true, are exclusively suited for agriculture, since their share of individual workers has been completely delivered. This item consists exclusively of agricultural laborers, owing to a state treaty. For the remaining part of the foreign areas I included another 10,000. This amounts altogether to 400,000 laborers who should arrive in March. One might be entitled to add for the last month altogether 10,000 prisoners of war. These are men to be drawn from the East. It can be expected that this number might under certain conditions be surpassed, since the High Command intends especially for operational reasons, to take the prisoners of war back to the Reich, particularly from the areas threatened by the enemy.

A former item concerns the fluctuation of labor which certainly amounts to about 100,000 laborers. Then there are items which at the moment cannot be estimated—the yield from the threatened areas and from the “Stoppage-action”. Here I cannot venture to name final figures, but I hope to be able to do so next month.

SAUCKEL: Of course, we regret very much that last autumn we were unable to recruit as much as we would have liked in the areas which now are again in enemy hands. This is partly due to the fact that we were not assisted in the degree we had expected. Moreover we were not able to effect the removal of the civil population which had been planned. These events are an urgent reminder of the fact that it is necessary to employ foreign laborers at once and in great numbers in Germany proper and in the actual armaments industry. You may be certain that we wish to achieve this. We have not the slightest interest in creating difficulties for an armaments office, even for those working for German interest abroad, by taking labor away from them to an unreasonable extent. But on this occasion I should like to ask you to try and understand our procedure. We Germans surely have sent to the front between 50 and 75 percent of our skilled workers. A part of them has been killed while the nations subjugated by us need no longer shed their blood. Thus they can preserve their entire capacity with regard to skilled workers, inasmuch as they have not been transferred to Germany which is the case only for a much smaller percentage than all of us supposed, and in fact they do use them partly for manufacturing things which are not in the least important for the German war economy. If we proceed energetically against this abuse, I ask you to give me credit for so much reason that I do not intend to damage the foreign interests of the German armaments industry. The quality of the foreign worker is such that it cannot be compared with that of the German worker. But even then I intend to create a similar proportion between skilled and workers trained for their job, as it exists in Germany by force of tradition, since it has come about that we had to send men to the front in much larger numbers than we requested France or any other country to do. Moreover we shall endeavor increasingly to bring about on a generous scale the adaptation of the French, Polish, and Czech workers. I do not see for the moment any necessity for limiting the use of foreign labor. The only thing I ask for is that we understand each other, so that the immense difficulties and friction between the respective authorities disappear and the program drawn up by us will by no means be frustrated by such things.

There are without a doubt still enough men in France, Holland, Belgium, the Protectorate, and the General Government to meet our labor demands for the next months. I confess that I expect more success from such a procedure with respect to heavier work or for work where shifts of 10 or more hours are customary, than from relying on the use of German women and men exclusively. We shall have better success by proceeding this way provided the foreign workers still obey, which remains a risk we always run, than by using weaker German women and girls as labor in places of very important armament work, where foreigners may be used for security reasons. * * *

* * * The situation in France is this; after I and my assistants had succeeded after difficult discussions in inducing Laval to introduce the Service Act this act has now been enlarged, owing to our pressure so that already yesterday three French age groups have been called up. We are now, therefore, legally and with the assistance of the French Government entitled to recruit laborers in France from three age groups, whom we can use in French factories in the future, but of whom we may choose some for our use in Germany and send them to Germany. I think in France the ice is now broken. According to reports received they now have begun to think about a possible break-through by the Bolshevists and the dangers which thereby threaten Europe. The resistance which the French Government has hitherto shown is diminishing. Within the next days I shall go to France in order to set the whole thing into motion, so that the losses in the East may be somewhat balanced by increasing recruitment and calling-up in France.

If we receive comprehensive lists in time, we shall, I think, be able to cover all demands by dispatching in March 800,000 laborers.

SPEER: Recruitment abroad as such is supported by us. We only fear very much that the skilled workers extracted from the occupied countries do not always reach the appropriate factories in Germany. It might certainly be better if we acted in such a way that the parent firms of Germany which work with the French and Czech factories would comb out the foreign workers more than before for their own use.

SAUCKEL: We made an agreement with Field Marshal Milch. You will get the factories which are urgently needed for your airplane motors, etc.; these will be completely safeguarded. In the same way I promised Admiral of the Fleet Doenitz[95] today that the U-boat repair firms proper are absolutely safeguarded. We shall even be able to provide our own armament factories on French soil with labor extracted from French factories, in the main from the unoccupied territory where there still are metal works which have their full complement of skilled workers without even having been touched so far.

HILDEBRAND: May I point out at this point that we have to figure that we shall be deprived of the Italian workers this year. This according to present discussions, concerns 300,000 men altogether, or 15 to 20,000 a month. If we deduct the first installment, the remaining ones to a great part are just highly skilled metal workers.

SAUCKEL: This is a request of the Fuehrer, but he has not yet finally decided.

HILDEBRAND: But we have been told to be prepared to lose these men.

SPEER: We ourselves quite support the combing-out abroad. On the other hand we must be entitled—and this was agreed—to exclude or prefer particular kinds of work, e.g., the armor factories. In France we are more and more turning towards giving up finishing processes and stressing the subcontracting. It is the foundries and similar works, e.g., for the use of the aluminum industry, which we wish to use to capacity. We could force the production of Opel, so that in this case Peugeot who manufacture the forged parts for Opel, the parent firm, might demand more labor for this while the rest of their workers would be taken over by Opel.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE THIRTY-SIXTH
CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD,
22 APRIL 1943

Dr. Jaenicke Secret

Top Secret State Matter
_STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE 36TH CONFERENCE
OF THE CENTRAL PLANNING BOARD_

_Concerning 1943-44 coal economy plan. Held on Thursday, 22 April 1943, 1550 hours at the Festival Hall at the Zoo, Jebenstr._

* * * * *

SPEER: Throughout the winter we have seen that in the last instance it is coal which provides the basis for all plans we wish to execute in other respects, and most of you are also aware of our intention to increase the manufacture of iron. Here also it will again be coal which in the last instance will tip the scales, whether or not we shall be able to accomplish this increase of iron production. Seen from the Central Planning Board, we are of the opinion that the demand for coal as well as the demand for iron ought to be coordinated in a separate plan, and that this plan ought to receive about the same degree of urgency as the Krauch plan, and that with regard to labor, the conditions required for the execution of that plan must be established. Perhaps Mr. Timm will be able to state how he expects the question of the miners to be developed; unfortunately the miners cannot be taken from the German reservoir, in their place we shall have to use very strong foreigners.

TIMM: At the moment, 69,000 men are needed for hauling that coal. We want to cover this by finding within the Reich 23,000 men, viz., healthy prisoners of war, etc., who are especially suitable for mining—and by dispatching 50,000 Poles from the General Government. Out of these about 30,000 men have been supplied up to 24 April, so that about 39,000 men are still outstanding for January to April. The demand for May has been reported to us at 35,700. The difficulties existed especially with regard to recruitment in the General Government, since in every district surrounding Germany there is an extraordinary resistance to recruitment. In all countries we have to change over more or less to registering the men by age groups and to conscripting them in age groups. They do appear for registration as such, but as soon as transport is available, they do not come back so that the dispatch of the men has become more or less a question for the police.

Especially in Poland the situation at the moment is extraordinarily serious. It is well known that vehement battles occurred just because of these actions. The resistance against the administration established by us is very strong. Quite a number of our men have been exposed to increased dangers, and it was just in the last two or three weeks that some of them were shot dead, e.g., the head of the labor office in Warsaw who was shot in his office, and yesterday another man again. This is how matters stand presently, and the recruiting itself even if done with the best will remain extremely difficult unless police reinforcements are at hand.

* * * * *

SPEER: These [women] we can use in the Reich. There are a great number of Russian PW’s and laborers who are employed at places where they need not be employed. There can be an exchange. The only thing is to do this with unskilled workers, and not to take the workers from the industry where they were trained with difficulty.

KEHRL: Where we are late in completion of a task, or where we lose an opportunity, we can make up for it. But any coal which we cannot haul at once is definitely lost for use in this war. This is why we cannot do enough to force the allotment to the pits.

SPEER: But not by forcible actions in smashing what we toilsomely built.

(KEHRL: We need not do that!)

You ought to add the conscripted labor.

TIMM: We must endeavor to get German men for working at the coal-face.

KEHRL: We subsist on foreigners who live in Germany.

TIMM: These men are concentrated within a very small area. Otherwise there might be trouble in this sector.

SPEER: There is a specified statement showing in what sectors the Russian PW’s have been distributed, and this statement is quite interesting. It shows that the armaments industry only received 30 percent. I always complained about this.

TIMM: The highest percentage of PW’s are Frenchmen, and one ought not to forget that it is difficult to employ them at the coal-face. The number of Russians living within the Reich is small.

ROHLAND: In the mines one should exclusively use eastern people, not western ones.

SPEER: The western men collapse!

* * * * *

SPEER: In any case we ought to force the coal production with all our power. I now have here a statement on the distribution of the Soviet prisoners. There are 368,000 altogether. Of these are: 101,000 in agriculture; 94,000 in the mining industry—who are not available in any case; 15,000 in the building materials industry; 26,000 in iron and metal production where they cannot be extracted either; 29,000 in the manufacture of iron, steel, and metal goods; 63,000 in the manufacture of machines, boilers, and cars, and similar appliances, which means in armaments industry; and 10,000 in the chemical industry. Agriculture has received by far the most of them, and the men employed there could in the course of time be exchanged for women. The 90,000 Russian PW’s employed in the whole of the armaments industry are for the greatest part skilled men. If you can extract 8-10,000 men from there, it would already be the limit.

KEHRL: Would it not be possible to add Serbians, etc.?

SOGEMEIER: We ought not to mix too much.

ROHLAND: For God’s sake, no Serbians! We had very bad experiences with mixing.

* * * * *

SPEER: Everything depends on the amount of the influx from abroad.

SCHIEBER: If anyway nothing arrives, the mines certainly will get nothing.

TIMM: Gauleiter Sauckel is perfectly convinced that the transports will be on their way within a short time. Now the front has been consolidated at last.

SCHIEBER: We ought to be grateful that the weather has allowed the farmer to keep things going in some way despite the little labor being available to him. For the farmer, the coal supply is just as important as for the whole of the armaments industry. When we discuss tomorrow the nitrogen problem we shall see the same; our first need is coal.

KOERNER: On 1 April we had in agriculture a deficit of about 600,000 laborers. It had been planned to cover it by supplying labor from the East, mainly women. These laborers will first have to be supplied until other laborers are released from agriculture. We are just entering the season where the heaviest work in the fields has to be done, for which many laborers are necessary. Much labor is needed for the hoeing of the fruits, and it is to be hoped that this year the harvest can be started early which would be rendered much more difficult if an exchange of labor would have to take place.

* * * * *

MILCH: We ought to except certain areas of the Protectorate to which the orders are being directed, and extract nothing there until a surplus is found out subsequently. For the time being it cannot be ascertained. There are enough other areas of the Protectorate which are not affected by the industry plan and some labor could be extracted from them at once. We ought to name the places which are excepted from our action.

TIMM: In this the authorities on the other side ought to participate; they are in the best position to tell the places from where nothing must be extracted.

MILCH: If one proceeds as I proposed, and Timm agreed to it, no damage can be done. This ought to be done in any case. For the rest I completely agree; we must now supply the mines with labor. The greatest part of labor which we can supply from the East will indeed be women. But the eastern women are quite accustomed to agricultural work, and especially to the type of work which has to be done these coming weeks, the hoeing and transplanting of turnips, etc. The women are quite suitable for this. One thing has to be considered: first you must supply agriculture with the women, then you can extract the men, laborer for laborer. It is not the right thing if first the men are taken away and the farmers are left without labor for 4 to 6 weeks. If the women arrive after such time they arrive too late.

SPEER: Beyond this we are prepared to release from all parts of the war economy, in exchange for women, any Russian PW’s or other Russian who is employed as auxiliary laborer.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT R-124
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 48-A

REPORT OF THE FORTY-SECOND CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL
PLANNING BOARD, 23 JUNE 1943

The Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan Central Planning Board Z.P. 148

Berlin W 8, 24 June 1943
Leipziger Strasse 3

24 copies, 17th copy

Top Secret State Matter
_REPORT ON THE 42D CONFERENCE OF THE CENTRAL
PLANNING BOARD ON 23 JUNE 1943, 1600 HOURS_

_Coal situation_

The manpower situation in the coal mining industry, particularly in the hard coal mining industry, is still unsatisfactory, and necessitates an extension of the measures decided upon at the 36th Conference of the Central Planning Board, held on 22 April 1943.