Chapter XLII: Section 2: A III f (7)

SAUR: The construction companies will be dissolved to provide key personnel for teams 10 times or even 100 times their size. That is a question which must be clarified by 10 a.m. tomorrow between the Plenipotentiary General for Construction and the air force construction units on one side and Kammler’s construction staff on the other. That will be clarified by tomorrow and he then must say what he needs. The Todt Organization must take part in the discussion, but I cannot consent to the inclusion of the Todt Organization in the matter as a third leading organization, as we would get confused. The Todt Organization must bleed with the rest. It is the same as your construction companies. It is the donor but he is the organizer and usufructuary. He is by all means the usufructuary. For besides being organizer, he is the usufructuary for the construction sites of the Plenipotentiary General for Construction.

SS MAJOR: Therefore it is important that these construction companies should be under military leadership!

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: * * * We further appealed to the Fuehrer that we should get the 64 miners who are in Berchtesgaden, as the work there will probably soon be finished. He made the suggestion that we, like the SS, should also train miners in the greater degree and mentioned the figure of 10,000 who would have to be trained one after another because they could not all be trained at once.

SAUR: The SS should be told that the training of miners should rest entirely with them because the SS runs the best mining school.

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: We must also ask the SS to get more miners from Italy and Slovakia.

SAUR: * * * We must bring more order into the PW base camps [Stalags]. We have made a proposal that the PW base camps should be transferred to the SS. The Italians and eastern peoples should be treated more roughly.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-338[114]
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON FRIDAY, 17 MARCH 1944

* * * * *

STOBBE-DETHLEFFSEN: * * * We already count on 100,000 men for the tasks of the Jaegerstab. To transfer them would mean breaking into the rest of the armament economy to an unheard-of degree.

(SAUR: 100,000 without Kammler!)

Including the labor we give Kammler but not including the concentration camp people.

SAUR: Right from the beginning we realized that 200,000 men would be transferred.

STOBBE-DETHLEFFSEN: I have just spoken to Prinzel about it. It is absolutely necessary that the few German key personnel at our disposal should be taken with the concentration camp inmates or with the other subjugated people in such a proportion as will guarantee the best use of this valuable German strength * * *.

* * * * *

STOBBE-DETHLEFFSEN: I am always getting demands for German labor. For example: Here are 5,000 concentration camp inmates, give me 1,000 German workers. I do not fulfill these requests in this proportion; otherwise my German labor would soon come to an end. We have filled only a fraction of the positions. I distribute German workers only in the ratio of 1:10.

* * * * *

MILCH: The air force stresses the importance of getting the whole cave for the purposes of manufacture. * * *

PORSCHE: * * * I shall talk to Weiss again about our getting more concentration camp people for finishing off the work.

(DIESING: We probably shall not get them.)

I’ll get them from the Reich Leader. I already have 3,500. Two of Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl’s men are going to France to prepare everything locally with regard to housing and feeding.

* * * * *

NOBEL: Can one be responsible for foreigners working as airfield control personnel? The repair works say: yes!

(MILCH: Not as pilots!)

I do not think that is intended. The repair works said yesterday that it would be a help to them if foreigners could be used as airfield control personnel. * * *

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-346
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE UNDER CHAIRMANSHIP OF
FIELD MARSHAL MILCH ON MONDAY, 20 MARCH 1944

* * * * *

SAUR: * * * As far as Hungary is concerned, I should be grateful if the Field Marshal would call up Mr. Sauckel and tell him that the whole group mobilized in Hungary should be primarily at the disposal of the Jaegerstab. Large construction [of entrenchments] columns [Schanz Kolonnen] must be formed. The people have to be treated like prisoners. Otherwise it won’t work.

* * * * *

SAUR: Where are the 54,000 Czechs?

MAHNKE: Of the 58,000 Czechs, 17,000 have been earmarked for Czechoslovakia. 31,000 are intended for the Reich, and after that 26,000 have been divided among the special commissions [Sonderausschusse]. 31,000 were for power units.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-388
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE OF 28 MARCH 1944

* * * * *

NOBEL: The labor situation in the repair sector is very unsatisfactory. Of the 2,000 people promised me before from the Action Sauckel, not one has yet arrived. There is no point in saying that people should apply to the armament department [Ruestungskommando]. The armament departments and inspectorates [Ruestungskommandos and Inspektionen] have not got anybody. If these men are not roped in by higher authority, the repair workshops cannot get any labor. My people are not in a position to stop production because we have not received any men since 11 March.

MEMBER OF THE JAEGERSTAB: I brought this matter up yesterday with Ministerialdirigent Dr. Timm of the office of the Plenipotentiary General for Labor Allocation, and told him that we handed in our request on 17 March, but had not yet received any laborers. He could not tell me anything but will let us know today. I will ask Schmelter, who is coming to this meeting later, to follow up the matter.

MILCH: Tell Schmelter, that if I can help in any way by calling Sauckel, etc., he should let me know.

* * * * *

SCHMELTER: I have received such high demands, for instance today over 3,000, tomorrow over 5,000, and the day after, again over 4,000, that it cannot possibly be that the labor is really needed, or else the firms do not understand the program. What has been received from you, Mr. Lange, has been passed on. It is also to be expected that these laborers will come within the next 10-14 days. I have arranged with Sauckel that I shall give out red tickets for the most urgent demands, first of all a consignment of 10,000. That will do to begin with. These red tickets will have priority, even over other red tickets. Of course, that will cause difficulties over skilled workers. When we have a picture of the number of skilled workers we need, we must decide from which branch of manufacture we can remove them, for Sauckel does not have so many skilled workers. Those who have already arrived are, for the most part, from the East. That is still the most prolific source. Very few come from the West and they are slowly starting to come from Italy. There are comparatively few skilled workers among them. So we must decide what factories are to be closed or restricted and where we shall take away the skilled workers. I can only let you have details in a few days when I have a complete picture of requirements.

NOBEL: If I must speed up repair work in a limited time, I need the labor at once. Since 16 March not one of the 2,000 people that Sauckel was going to send has arrived. That is already two weeks ago. They tell me that if they have to deliver 50 machines they must have 60 people today or tomorrow. But that won’t work because I have not got the people. I have always said—you will not get skilled workers. They answer—then give us others. If we do not fulfill these demands, their confidence in the Jaegerstab will be undermined. This morning I shall get material from Hansen & Company in Muenster. The labor office there is not yet clear about the set-up of the Jaegerstab and the priority of the fighter program. It is the result of the bureaucracy of the authorities. My men have to argue with the authorities and thereby lose valuable time.

SCHMELTER: It is now customary, if one fails to produce something to put the blame on the labor office. I remind you of the Messerschmitt affair.

(MILCH: That is not so in all cases.)

Assuredly! The gentlemen were with me on Saturday. They had got back 50 tool makers from the army into the bargain, which they had had in the meantime, and said nothing about. First, they could not employ them, secondly, they did not need them, and thirdly, they got them elsewhere. Furthermore Sauckel puts the people at the disposal of the repair department. It was immediately reported that the labor offices worked too slowly.

MILCH: You will make things easier for yourselves if you build up gradually a small reserve of a few hundred people, at first 500 which you can later raise to 2,000 so that you can cover immediately any need that arises. Then our work will gain the respect of others. At the moment it is like this—either we must transfer people and leave a gap where it is less vital, or wait until the people are brought in by Sauckel. When one sees the figures that Sauckel has produced and ascertains what the armament industry has received, the comparison is ridiculous.

SCHMELTER: A letter is on the way from the minister to Mr. Sauckel. During the first three months Sauckel has brought in between 300,000 and 400,000 people, but not even a miserable 66,000 red tickets could be honored.

MILCH: I personally cannot get over it! Take the help away from the housewives! In the past year 800,000 domestic servants have been negotiated and we are fighting for 2,000 men!

SCHMELTER: In one year the demand for female domestic servants in Germany has risen by 200,000, the demands of the armament industry during the same period by 600. I have arranged that transports that come from abroad are directed straight to the points of greatest need.

MILCH: Every week 2,000 people come from the East.

(SCHMELTER: Most of them go into agriculture.)

The Jaegerstab has priority over agriculture. Can you not intercept them?

SCHMELTER: I have arranged that. The 2,000 are disposed of; some of them are already at work. But it does not always happen that the reports of the firms are 100 percent correct. We have often checked that up. It often happens that firms take the people and put them into another branch of production but still shout for people for the high priority processes.

(NOBEL: That is not the case in my repair industry!)

FRYDAG: Yesterday, I was in Wiener-Neustadt. The works have a considerable assignment and a hefty increase. Merely in order to get out of the room unscathed I gave them 200 men from the airframes industry.

SCHMELTER: In Wiener Neustadt there was a demand for 1,000 or 1,500. A thousand were supposed to come from Air Fleet 2 in Italy. An engineer official, Weidinger, was going to produce them. On Sunday I received a phone call to the effect that the engineer official could not produce them.

FRYDAG: That is quite right. But you must put yourself in the firm’s place. The firm must have these people.

SCHMELTER: Then I must see to it that I take them from somewhere else.

MILCH: You know our position. We are convinced that you do everything you can. But we must now commit a robbery. We can no longer operate along legal lines.

(SCHMELTER: That is the only possibility.)

There will be abuse but we must accept that.

SCHMELTER: I shall go tomorrow to Mr. Sauckel and tell him that he must give the fighter industry the next transport of workers from the East. The proposal that the fighter industry should not give back the laborers it received who originally worked in agriculture has been turned down by Sauckel. I am commissioned to inform you of this.

MILCH: That is out of the question. Nothing shall go out of the fighter industry!

SCHMELTER: I am commissioned to say that he must have this labor back again.

MILCH: Later, not now! One more thing. We must protect all the factories working for the fighter program. We must say to them: You must not give up people for anything whatsoever except on command of the Jaegerstab. None can touch you, not even the local labor offices and the ministerial authorities; requests for personnel must all be directed to the Jaegerstab. We must put that out clearly as an order.

(PETRI: That is already in previous minutes.)

SCHMELTER: May I request that this order should be extended to the management and repair personnel of the electricity and gas works.

MILCH: I can only do it for the Jaegerstab. I am not doing it for the bomber and other branches either as we have only that special authority.

SCHMELTER: I should like to ask that it should only be done for manufacture and not construction.

MILCH: Agreed! We must write a letter to Keitel of the OKW and a letter to Sauckel saying: Requests are to be made only directly to the Jaegerstab.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-334[115]
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACT FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE OF 25 APRIL 1944

* * * * *

[page 27]

WEGENER: I have a question for Schmelter: Has the question of the _transfer of western Europeans_ been clarified?

WERNER: On this subject I can say that it is especially difficult for BMW [Bavarian Motor Works], because we can only transfer Russians and concentration camp inmates, and the guards for these are mainly Belgians and French.

* * * * *

WEGENER: As far as I can remember, 200 key personnel are needed for Markirch.

MILCH: Perhaps that must be brought before the Fuehrer again.

SCHAAF: Saur came back and said there was no more to be said on this subject to the Fuehrer.

MILCH: That is out of date now. I have discussed with Saur the fact that we cannot keep up this state of affairs. Saur is of my opinion. It must be discussed once more with the Fuehrer. I can discuss it again with the Reich Marshal. We shall do what we can, but we cannot throw everything into confusion without due consideration. How should we then manage to produce! I am convinced that the Fuehrer will agree as soon as we can put these people reasonably into barracks so that they do not come into contact with the population.

* * * * *

SCHAEDE: Whenever French key personnel are brought to Lorraine, they run away without fail in a short time. This one must tell the firm. Already they do not come back from leave.

MILCH: It will only work if we put these workers into barracks. We cannot exactly treat them as prisoners. It must appear otherwise, but it must be so in practice.

* * * * *

MILCH: I am personally convinced after talking to the Fuehrer that he will agree as soon as it is made reasonable. The people should not be able to mingle with the population and to conspire. Nor should they be allowed to run around free, so that they can cross the frontier every day. Both practices must be stopped.

* * * * *

HEYNE: I have two short points. Yesterday Maehrisch-Truebau was removed from the program because the Quartermaster General told me the previous night that it was possible to move in on the morning of 28 April. The matter is already progressing. Last night I was called up again because the Chief of Prisoners of War Affairs did not quite agree with the new accommodation in Brunswick of the prisoners from Maehrisch-Truebau for some reasons of security.

I should like to ask Major Kleber, who was also yesterday announced as Mr. Saur’s liaison officer with the OKW, to exert some pressure here.

Apart from that, General Schmidt said that there were also some fighter units and suchlike in the barracks; that he could not move out as quickly as that; he would not take orders; otherwise he would go to the Reich Marshal.

MILCH: I am of the opinion that that must be done at once. It’s all the same to me if individual people do object. Protest does not interest me at all, whether from the Chief of Prisoners of War Affairs or from our side.

Kleber, would you be so good as to take care of this?

KLEBER: As far as prisoners of war are concerned I can take care of it, but not where it concerns the air force. That must be handled separately.

MILCH: Naturally. This matter must be handled by us. There was in fact, another proposal but we do not want it. Otherwise someone else will come complaining.

KLEBER: I should like to transfer the prisoners further off to Brunswick.

MILCH: I think it is an excellent idea for the prisoners to go there if Brunswick continues to be attacked.

* * * * *

SAUR: I must come back again to the question of _western European workers_. Make an energetic attempt to make a _compromise within the factories_. I think it will work out. I do not think the Fuehrer will give in even if we put the French into barracks. He has spoken so firmly and for reasons which I cannot but recognize. I am all the more thankful that permission has been given for the Protectorate. I am going to see State Minister Frank on Friday and I shall discuss with him the whole question of dispersal in the Protectorate. I shall like Schmelter to accompany me to Prague on Friday to discuss the question of transfer of workers.

MILCH: I said before that we wanted to carry out the transfer within the factories. Then if something is left over, we should have to approach the Fuehrer again, but only on condition that they are in barracks and that there are replacements for them.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-362
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON THE OCCASION OF THE 5TH
TRIP OF THE “HUBERTUS UNDERTAKING”, 2 AND 3 MAY 1944

* * * * *

[Page 65]

MILCH: * * * I also ask that every time the civilian population is attacked [Translator’s note: by low-flying aircraft], in private cars, on [rail] roads, etc., the local offices make reports accordingly. The Fuehrer has ordered extremely severe measures against these enemy crews who harass the civilian population. There is not the slightest military necessity for this and the Fuehrer intends absolutely to act according to the Japanese pattern. (Enthusiastic applause!) We must only take cases individually so that we have the necessary material and can produce it. We owe that to our boys who are prisoners over there, who will be held as hostages unless we have proper proof.

* * * * *

[Page 110]

SCHNAUDER: * * *

1. At the Heinkel factory at Barth there are 3,300 workers, consisting of 300 Germans and 3,000 concentration camp inmates. Of the 3,000 concentration camp inmates, 1,500 are men. In order to maintain their working capacity it is necessary to evacuate these men too during daylight air attacks. However, there are not enough guards and sometimes there is a deficit of as many as 20. As guards cannot be drawn from any other source, it has been decided that the factory is to arm as guards certain men from its own ranks to guard the concentration camp inmates. * * *

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-390
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACT FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE OF 4 MAY 1944

* * * * *

SAUR: 12. Can the arrival of the reported 50,000 Italians be relied on? By what date will the first transport arrive? This wording is, frankly, unintelligible. It was quite clear that the 50,000 Italians were coming so that the transport facilities were guaranteed long ago. How did such a report get into the minutes of 14 April?

(Comment: The camps into which these people are to go don’t even
exist yet!)

We shan’t get any further like this! Inform Mr. Schmelter.

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: Are they coming via Sauckel?

SAUR: No. This is our own undertaking. Pueckel has clarified various doubtful points with Nagel and got ready a large number of vehicles and now all that comes to nothing. Schmelter must report on it tomorrow, not in the sense of whether it can be done, but that this and that must be done, and by such and such means.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-442[116]
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACT FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON 5 MAY 1944

* * * * *

SCHMELTER: Then the transport of the Italians. 50,000 Italians have not yet been transported. It was due to the fact that the escort for the transport has not yet been appointed. The conversation yesterday with the Plenipotentiary in Milan proved that the transport should leave today for this place Woerl (?) [sic] where further distribution will be undertaken. I booked another call this morning but did not get through. I hope to be able to give more details tomorrow.

MILCH: Has a proper reception center been set up in Woerl?

(SCHMELTER: Yes.)

Is it assured that the number of those leaving is in reasonable proportion to those arriving? * * *: [sic] That shall be. A man has been appointed by Schmelter to travel down there especially and control directly the conscription of civilians.

MILCH: Is there someone at the Escort Detachment Headquarters in Italy responsible for seeing that people do not get out and run away during the journey?

* * * [sic] That is what the escorting personnel is there for.

(MILCH: Someone of standing?)

Dr. Wendt is responsible for the whole undertaking.

MILCH: I am of the opinion that, if anyone jumps out, he should be shot; otherwise a thousand will get on and only twenty will arrive there. The Gendarmerie and all military posts must look out for those who abscond on the journey. They will be arrested at once and will appear before a court martial.

(End of meeting 1225 hours).

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-361
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACT FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE DURING THE 6TH JOURNEY
OF THE “HUBERTUS UNDERTAKING” FROM 8-10 MAY 1944

* * * * *

GABEL: We must have 1,000 underground workers at once.

SAUR: Definitely.

BORNITZ: The Erzberg [ore mine] has, furthermore, a loss of from 1,400 to 1,500 men per annum due to climatic conditions. It goes up as high as 1,500 meters.

SAUR: Do you give the men up systematically, and to whom?

BORNITZ: Not systematically. They collapse, report sick, and the foreigners do not come back. Some escape too, as in the mountain country it is not possible to seal everything hermetically.

(Comment: A year ago the labor potential of a large concentration camp was thoroughly gone into. That possibility must not be entirely disregarded).

GABEL: Careful! Concentration camp internees are not strong enough to be able to work underground.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-336[117]
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON 26 MAY 1944

* * * * *

[Page 31-32]

REICH MINISTER SPEER: With regard to construction it is important that we should not start more building than we can supply labor and equipment for. Equipment is of secondary importance. We must not continue with the mistakes we found in the air force armament industry when we took over, i.e., the beginning of no end of buildings for which, at that time, only 20 to 30 percent of the necessary labor was available.

SAUR: That is the case now unfortunately. We have at least 3 times as many buildings under construction as we have labor available.

REICH MINISTER SPEER: What is the news about the Hungarian Jews?

KAMMLER: They are on the way. At the end of the month the first transports will arrive for surface work on the surface bunkers.

* * * * *

[Page 33]

SCHLEMPP: * * * Dorsch said yesterday that he wanted to bring 100,000 Jews from Hungary, 50,000 Italians, 10,000 men from bomb damage repair, also 1,000 from Waldbroehl (?) [sic]; then he wanted to get something from Greiser’s zone by negotiation, then 4,000 Italian officers, 10,000 men from South Russia and 20,000 from North Russia. That would be 220,000 altogether.

REICH MINISTER SPEER: We have often made such calculations; but the people never came.

* * * * *

[Page 34]

KAMMLER: For all these measures [Translator’s note: A and B construction measures which were the responsibility of the SS], I must take in 50,000 more people in protective custody [Schutzhaeftlinge].

* * * * *

[Page 43]

REICH MINISTER SPEER: We shall carry out a special operation [Sondereinsatz] of our own in order to build up reserves of manpower [Schwerpunkte]. It will bring in 90,000 men in three installments of 30,000.

* * * * *

It will be experts who are called up. And it would be a good thing if one linked up with it the conscription of tool makers within the firms so that one would have a body of tool makers in the armament industry. These people would get leave from this group and would function as armed forces employees. If we make them armed forces employees we have the advantage of being independent of Sauckel’s offices.

* * * * *

[Page 80]

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: How long do the Italian PW’s actually work here?

SCHMELTER: As long as the factory works. There is a regulation that PW’s must work so long.

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: Could you not look into this? You can see people on the streets about 4 or 5 o’clock and nobody after that.

(SCHMELTER: I can look into it!)

I do not believe that any Italian prisoner of war works 72 hours.

* * * * *

[Page 81]

SCHMELTER: * * * Dorsch will accompany me to Greiser to try and get 20 to 30 thousand men out of him.

REICH MINISTER SPEER: Kammler had his doubts about that before.

REPRESENTATIVE OF KAMMLER: He didn’t think the 100,000 Jews would come.

SCHMELTER: To that I can add the following. Till now two transports have arrived at the SS camp Auschwitz. For fighter construction we were offered only children, women, and old men with whom very little can be done. * * * Unless the next transports bring men of an age fit for work the whole action will not have much success.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-359
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 75

EXTRACTS FROM TRANSCRIPT OF STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF
THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON 27 JUNE 1944

* * * * *

[Page 27]

SCHMELTER: I have another small point to bring up. I said once before that we had fairly large numbers of English and American “Terror Flyers” in air force camps, who cannot be used. It is a matter, in all, of about 17,000 people, approximately half officers and NCO’s who do not need to work. That means that there are 6 to 9 thousand men in camps who just sit about doing nothing. The suggestion that they should be put to work has now been turned down on the grounds that it concerns especially intelligent people trained in collecting information and, apart from that, inclined to acts of sabotage.

SAUR: Can we put them into the manufacture of component parts?

LANGE: Perhaps we can employ them in underground factories.

SAUR: We could employ them in the manufacture of component parts. Who is responsible for this matter?

KRAUSE: The Commission for Prisoners of War; it comes under the Quartermaster General.

SAUR: Will you undertake to put this matter in order? These people must be put at the disposal of the component parts industry. That would be an unbelievable help to us.

SCHMELTER: It must be laid down that these people _all_ go into fighter production or into the component parts industry. Otherwise a part will be sent off elsewhere. The people in question are excellent people, good material.

* * * * *

[Page 31]

SCHMELTER: I have a few more points. Up till now 12,000 female concentration camp internees, Jewesses, have been demanded. The matter is now in order. The SS has agreed to deliver these Hungarian Jewesses in batches of 500. Thus the smaller firms, too, will be in a position to employ these concentration camp Jewesses better. I request that these people should be ordered in batches of 500.

MAHNKE: How many are still there?

SCHMELTER: There are still enough there.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-320
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 73

EXTRACT FROM INTERROGATION OF KARL OTTO SAUR ON
13 NOVEMBER 1946, CONCERNING THE USE OF CONCENTRATION
CAMP PRISONERS IN JAEGERSTAB CONSTRUCTION

Q. Were special factories built after the creation of the Jaegerstab?

A. All building of factories above the ground was stopped, and subterranean factories were built. We divided approximately 30 factories into 700 individual workshops to avoid offering targets for attacks.

Q. What kind of workers were used for this construction?

A. The construction was divided into three parts: the two Kammler parts, (_a_) new construction underground, and (_b_) expansion underground, and the Todt Organization part.

Q. This expansion program was directed by Kammler,[118] then?

A. Parts (_a_) and (_b_) were directed quite independently by Kammler. He had full authority from Goering as of 4 March 1944 and was then made a member of the Jaegerstab. * * * The whole affair was carried out by Kammler alone.

Q. And the workers who were used for this purpose were concentration camp prisoners?

A. To my knowledge, they must have been concentration camp prisoners.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-266
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 76

AFFIDAVIT OF FRITZ SCHMELTER, 19 NOVEMBER 1946,
CONCERNING THE ORGANIZATION OF THE JAEGERSTAB

I, Fritz Schmelter, swear, testify, and state:

1. That, since about January 1944 until April 1945, I held, in
the end, the office of Ministerialdirigent in the Ministry for
Armament and War Production (Ministry Speer); that as
Ministerialdirigent I was in charge of the Division for Labor
Assignment, and from December 1944 until April 1945 of the
Central Department for Labor Assignment and Labor Output, and
that, as a holder of these positions I was also a member of the
Jaegerstab.

2. That Milch and Speer together were in charge of the
Jaegerstab; that Saur was the Chief of Staff and was, in this
capacity, the immediate subordinate of Milch and Speer.

3. That during its existence the Jaegerstab met almost every day
and that these meetings were presided over in most cases by
Milch, in the beginning, and later on by Saur; that Speer was
very rarely present and only on special occasions; that these
meetings took place, first, in the Reich Air Ministry and after
this was destroyed in the barrack at Tempelhof.

4. That in the meetings of the Jaegerstab the supply of labor
for the Luftwaffe was discussed; that, for the Jaegerstab, the
labor requirements necessary to the industry of the Luftwaffe
were discussed with the Plenipotentiary for Labor Allocation
(Ministry Sauckel); that Sauckel satisfied these requirements as
far as possible; that the Chief of Staff, in the Jaegerstab,
Saur occasionally also distributed the available labor to the
different Luftwaffe plants.

5. That in the year of 1944 the air raids made it necessary to
decentralize many of the plants of the Luftwaffe; that this
decentralization was ordered by the Jaegerstab; that many
factories of the Luftwaffe were transferred into subterranean
buildings and that for the completion of these subterranean
buildings concentration camp inmates and Jews were also used;
that the whole building program of the Jaegerstab was
established and controlled by this Jaegerstab itself.

6. That the above facts are personally known to me; that these
facts are known to me on account of the position I held and the
responsibility it gave me in the Jaegerstab and in the Ministry
Speer.

I have read the above statement which consists of two pages in German, and I state that this is the full truth, to the best of my knowledge and belief. I have had the opportunity to make changes and corrections in the above statements. I have given this testimony voluntarily, without any promise of reward and without being, in any way, forced or threatened.

Nuernberg, 19 November 1946.
[Signed] DR. FRITZ SCHMELTER

TRANSLATION OF SPEER EXHIBIT 34[119]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 17

ORDER OF HITLER, 21 APRIL 1944, DELEGATING TO DORSCH
AUTHORITY FOR JAEGERSTAB CONSTRUCTIONS[120]

Copy

The Fuehrer

Fuehrer’s Headquarters
21 April 1944

To the Reich Minister for Armament and War Production and Head of the Todt Organization, Reich Minister Speer

Berlin W 8

I delegate Ministerialdirektor Dorsch, Chief of the Todt Central Office, to carry out the erection of the six fighter production buildings ordered by me, while retaining his other functions in your sphere of work.

You are to be responsible for taking care of all the prerequisites necessary for the speedy erection of these buildings. You are particularly to effect the best possible coordination with the other war-essential buildings, if necessary referring to me for a decision.

[Signed] ADOLF HITLER

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-337[121]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 12

EXCERPTS FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON 6 MARCH 1944
IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY[122]

* * * * *

SAUR: I see a great many unknown faces and I do not know what business all these gentlemen have here. I suggest that a check be made at the door and that the showing of passes be mandatory. Otherwise there is danger that other people may sneak in here. I demand therefore a stricter control under all circumstances. Furthermore I would ask that gentlemen remain at meetings only as long and no longer as their business makes it necessary. I would therefore request that each gentleman report his presence and state whether he has any matters of general interest. These things could then be taken up first and that would settle that and the man could leave. We only want one gentleman for one subject, not a whole bunch of them.

* * * * *

SAUR: Does the term “construction company”[123] exist at all? I think it does not exist.

DIESING: We have construction companies with the Luftwaffe, among them masons, slaters, window fitters, etc. That is how we arrived at the term “construction company”. We cannot again withdraw the six construction companies which we have taken from Berlin. For each building site we need approximately 100 skilled people, this on the basis of a fixed distribution key and we do not know where to get them.

* * * * *

MILCH: Now we come to the question of foreign exchange. Here the Fuehrer has announced his consent that the requests of the Slovaks to purchase antiaircraft guns, etc., be complied with. Saur has reported orally how many antiaircraft guns have actually been finished and how far we have exceeded the program. This is a good and acceptable method for us.

We have furthermore approached the Fuehrer in order to obtain the 64 miners, at present employed at Berchtesgaden, since the work there should soon be finished. He said that we, like the SS, should train miners on a larger scale too, and named the figure of 10,000 to be trained in successive shifts because one cannot train them all at the same time.

SAUR: The gentlemen of the SS should be told of this, that the entire training of miners is supposed to be done by the SS because the SS has the best school for that.

MILCH: Furthermore we must ask the SS to get hold of further miners from Italy and Slovakia.

SAUR: Barowski (?) [sic] must know that! This question must be cleared up at once, today, in order to agree on the selection with the SS.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-338[124]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 13

EXCERPTS FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL
MILCH ON FRIDAY, 17 MARCH 1944, 1100 HOURS,
IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY[125]

* * * * *

[Page 13]

STOBBE-DETHLEFFSEN:[126] Probably you have not understood me quite correctly. When I asked this question, I did not have in mind the projects of 600,000 and 800,000 square meters,

(SAUR: But I did!)

but the original 60,000 square meter works. I now ask: shall these 60,000 square meter works now be simply cancelled in consideration of the big works, and are they no longer to be taken into consideration? This seems hazardous to me because we must make the following distinction. The construction capacity of underground works in mountains and caves is entirely different from the one to be reckoned with at such concrete works. It is available for concrete works and consequently it should be used. It was not as if we had to go into caves or worm ourselves into the mountain. The question of the big works is a very difficult one for us from the point of view of capacity. It alone requires another 25,000 workers. We reckon already now 100,000 men for the tasks of the Jaegerstab. To switch to some other work would constitute an inroad of unheard of proportions into the remaining armament economy.[127]

(SAUR: 100,000 without Kammler!)

Including the manpower we give Kammler, but without the people from concentration camps!

* * * * *

MILCH: We have been ordered to carry out these two construction projects by the Fuehrer. If I now take a higher compression ratio and thus attain much higher figures, even this higher figure would not prevent us from having to deal with further shifting afterwards, besides concrete works and cave works, smaller caves, tunnels, etc. It is now doubtless correct to ascertain: (1) What has to be constructed, (2) for whom it has to be constructed, (3) where it has to be constructed. We have to distribute it in such a way that we can efficiently cope with manpower and all the other questions, power, transportation, etc.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-365
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 15

EXTRACT FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE, 12 APRIL 1944

_STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY HAUPTDIENSTLEITER_
_SAUR, LATER ON PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH, ON WEDNESDAY, 12 APRIL_
_1944, 10 O’CLOCK IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

SAUR: Please tell this to Schmelter. We are in an incredible situation as a result of lack of manpower. Here we are in the middle of the month already, and the 10,000 people allocated to us according to red slips have not arrived yet. A way must be found to assure priority for red-slip matters over all other allocations. Tell Herr Schmelter to contact Gauleiter Sauckel today. Going further than that, the discontinuation, transfer, or concentration of every other type of production must be brought about by us at once.

SCHAAF: The 4,000 people from Kahla!

LANGE: Schmelter’s people complain particularly because they have no means of making pressure demands to Sauckel which will also be complied with.

SAUR: Field Marshal, the best thing would be for you to approach Sauckel yourself since he is the man in charge of labor allocation.

MILCH: I shall tell him that the 10,000 red slips were not honored.

BALCKE: On that I can report that the requests were sent out on the 5th and that on the 11th they had not yet reached the labor offices. The way is long, it is true. Therefore it is not yet possible for the people to be employed.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-334[128]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 16

EXTRACTS FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE, 25 APRIL 1944

_STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE_
_OF 25 APRIL 1944, 10 O’CLOCK IN THE_
_REICH AIR MINISTRY_

_PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL MILCH_

Herr Saur does not appear until towards the end of the meeting.

* * * * *

WEGENER: I have a question for Schmelter: Has the question of the _transfer of west European workers_ been settled?

WERNER: On this I can say that especially for the Bavarian Motor Works matters are particularly difficult because we can transfer only Russians and concentration camp inmates, and the staff used for supervision consists mostly of Belgians and Frenchmen.

* * * * *

KREUTZ: Mueller declared at one time—and he believed he could do it—that he would try and shift a part of the head personnel within the concern.

SCHAEDE: If you bring the French key personnel to Lorraine, I can guarantee you that they would run away within the shortest possible time. That must be told to the firm. Even now they do not return from their vacation.

MILCH: It will work only if we place these people into barracks. It is true we cannot treat them as prisoners of war; the outward appearance must be different, but in actual practice that is just what it must be.

SCHAEDE: I merely wanted to suggest to the firms to take along as few French people as possible so that they would not lose them altogether, and rather follow the system of Mueller.

MILCH: Exactly. And if then there are still some left one can say that this will be limited in terms of time, perhaps to several months, and that in return certain advantages will be granted to them because they will be subject to certain deprivation of their freedom.

* * * * *

MILCH: As early as today at noon, we may face the situation that Bavarian Motor Works at Allach is completely destroyed and that we have to get out. Then we cannot deal with things such as 200 or 300 French people who cannot come to Lorraine. That must be explained to the Fuehrer once more. Otherwise, I see no possibility for carrying through our assignment.

Personally, I am firmly convinced—after the conversations with the Fuehrer—that he will then consent provided it is done in a sensible way. The people must not sit together with the population and they must not be able to conspire. Nor should they have sufficient freedom of movement to be able to pass the green border line. Both of these things must be prevented.

In compensation for these restrictions we can, on the other hand, give these people something and make them happy—be it even only cigarettes.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-442[129]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 21

EXTRACT FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE, 5 MAY 1944

_THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE JAEGERSTAB_
_CONFERENCE ON FRIDAY, 5 MAY 1944, 10 O’CLOCK_
_IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

SCHMELTER: I was supposed to report on the employment of labor in the penal institutions.[130] The Minister of Justice has not yet forwarded the complete list of workers available in the penal institutions. I have made another inquiry. Dr. Schmelter (?) [sic] has appointed Attorney Karl as special official in charge. He is the liaison to the Reich Ministry of Justice. * * *

HEYNE: Such conversations have taken place. They do not get us anywhere. The thing we need is a listing of all localities showing how large a number of prisoners are yet available there. Then we must see whether they are required there. Herr Schmelter planned to concentrate the skilled workers in those spots. There are only 2-3 percent skilled workers in all among all prisoners. That is too little.

MILCH: I suggest you are going to submit to me today a letter to Thierack, to wit: Taking into consideration the extraordinary urgency of the work in connection with the Jaegerstab we need this assistance. We have failed for a long time unfortunately to obtain the compilation from the authorities concerned. We need such and such data. I ask him to concern himself personally with the matter and to let us have the material in the very near future.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-336[131]
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 23

EXCERPTS FROM THE STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE
JAEGERSTAB CONFERENCE ON FRIDAY, 26 MAY 1944,
AT 10 O’CLOCK

* * * * *

(Minister Speer and Field Marshal Milch entering.)

MILCH: I welcome our Minister Speer for the first time in the circle of the Jaegerstab, and would like to express my special happiness and at the same time yours, that you, dear Speer, are again with us, well, cheerful, and in the old creative spirit.

This machinery, created by your orders, accomplished excellent things in the three months of its existence. It has made special efforts to bring the production of fighters and all that goes with them to a high level.

* * * * *

SCHMELTER: The reports of the board of examiners show that a larger number could be deducted from the plants belonging to the Luftwaffe if one succeeds in establishing joint direction for the department of plane construction, the technical plant groups and companies. Up to now they exist separately under three different commands and leaderships, and that would make it possible to deduct more workers. The board of examiners thinks that hundreds of laborers could be deducted if a single command would be established. This must be done by Field Marshal Milch.

MILCH: The Quartermaster General to whom all are subordinate! No one is subordinate to me.

* * * * *

(SCHMELTER: Probably they will work in plants where people do
not work for 72 hours.)

Isn’t it possible—to avoid injustice toward our workers—to have our other plants work too, not all of them for 72 hours, but perhaps up to 64 hours? That should suffice if all would do it.

SCHMELTER: I prepared already for the conference of the chiefs of the various offices the suggestion that working hours in civilian production should be increased. There are still many production plants working only 48 hours.

MILCH: Then one can equalize and we need not work all the time for 72 hours.

* * * * *

EXTRACTS OF TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS FRITZ SCHMELTER[132]

_DIRECT EXAMINATION_

[Tr. pp. 717-734]

DR. BERGOLD: Witness, will you give us your first name and your last name?

WITNESS SCHMELTER: Fritz Schmelter.

Q. When were you born?

A. On the first of March 1904.

Q. What was your position at the end of the war?

A. At the end of the war, I was Central Department Manager at the Ministry of Armament.

* * * * *

Q. Thank you. Witness, when and in what position did you have to do official business with the defendant?

A. I had some dealings with him on official business after 1944 when I became Chief of the Amtsgruppeneinsatz in the Ministry of Armament. I saw him again after the Jaegerstab was formed, that is, after March 1944.

Q. In your position in the Ministry of Armament, did you have anything to do with the Central Planning Board?

A. I had something to do with them insofar as the chief of staff of the armament office was concerned. He was my chief. I had to write down the necessary figures concerning labor assignments when I accompanied him to certain sessions of the Central Planning Board as assistant.

Q. What month was that, approximately?

A. As far as I can remember the first session in which I participated was in February or March 1944. I did not always participate in these sessions, only in a few of them when I accompanied the man I mentioned before.

Q. Did the sessions of February and March 1944 deal with labor assignments?

A. Yes.

Q. During these conferences, were they trying to clear the numbers or the figures which were announced by Sauckel?

A. In one of the conferences I remember they wanted to make Sauckel a proposal concerning the distribution of labor he wanted to provide. I remember that the Central Planning Board had a written proposal submitted to him concerning requests about labor assignments. Sauckel said that he would acknowledge this proposal but would take care of the distribution personally.

Q. Did they, during these sessions, try to find out whether the numbers and figures Sauckel reported were correct? If he mentioned figures which were too high, did they speak about those matters in this conference?

A. I do not remember that day. But I know that in various conferences the question of reliability of the figures played a great part. There was always a difference between the figures Sauckel reported and those Speer reported.

Q. Did this apply to figures which Sauckel mentioned as having already been brought in or did it apply to figures on labor still to come?

A. That applied particularly to the numbers of laborers who had already been brought. It was not possible to try to control the number of laborers wanted because it was only something that was being planned, nothing else.

Q. That is correct, but from previous experiences, weren’t they in a position to find out that Sauckel’s promises were not being kept?

A. At the time they doubted that the figures which Sauckel reported could ever be brought in.

* * * * *

Q. Is it correct that in your position, as a member of the Speer ministry, or in your capacity as a member of the Todt Organization, you very often participated in the staff meetings of Sauckel?

A. Every month Sauckel would call such a staff meeting where representatives of the most important labor assignment ministries took part. I almost always participated in those meetings.

Q. What other ministries apart from the Ministry of Armaments participated in those conferences?

A. The Air Ministry, the OKW, the Ministry of Economics, the Agricultural Ministry, and I do not think I can remember anything further.

* * * * *

Q. Did the defendant Milch ever participate in those sessions?

A. No. Those were conferences in which the experts of the ministries took part; not the leaders and not their representatives, either.

Q. Who was the chief of the Air Ministry?

A. Goering.

Q. At these staff conferences, did Sauckel ever make any statements saying he brought the laborers voluntarily to the Reich?

A. I remember that Sauckel repeatedly said approximately the following:

“They say that I am forcing laborers to come to Germany. Once
somebody said I went to foreign countries with a lasso and
caught people and brought them over to Germany. They said I
forced them to come to Germany.”

Furthermore, he said:

“I declare all those things are not true. The laborers are
brought to Germany by me on the basis of contracts with other
governments, as far as there are governments in those occupied
territories, or on the orders of the local military commanders
or other local German agencies.”

He asked us to tell our superiors his opinion on that question.

* * * * *

Q. Is it known to you that there was an agreement with the French Government according to which one prisoner of war would be released to France for two laborers.

A. Yes.

Q. Is it known to you that the French workers during their activity in Germany got leave once in a while?

A. Yes.

Q. A leave to France?

A. Yes.

Q. Did they ever return from their leave or did they just stay there?

A. The greater part came back from their leave; quite a number did not come back. Part of the laborers who went on leave did not come back. Some of them came back.

Q. Was that the larger part that came back or the smaller part?

A. I did not hear any figures concerning that. As far as I know the greatest of them came back. According to the factory manager, the larger part always came back, but of course I have no exact figures.

* * * * *

Q. Witness, you then joined the Jaegerstab. Do you know anything about the creation of the Jaegerstab?

A. Approximately on the first of March, I do not remember the exact date, I was asked by my chief of staff to go to the Air Ministry where Milch and Mr. Saur were present. He said the air armament was so badly damaged by the air raids that there had to be a fighter program. For that purpose a staff needed to be developed to hold daily conferences which would be necessary in order to increase the fighter production or at least bring it to the same level that it used to be. A number of gentlemen from air as well as from the armament industry were designated to participate in these sessions and to report to their offices what had taken place and put orders into effect.