Chapter XLIV: Section 2: A III f (9)

A. Of that I know nothing, because they did not arrive. They were not watched, or guarded at all. They were free workers, there was no reason to guard them.

Q. Now, Witness, outside of Kaufering, can you tell me where and under what names these other fighter factories were to be located?

A. In Muehldorf, and then there was a factory in Vaihingen.

Q. Just a minute. Now with regard to Muehldorf, can you tell me what that was to be used for, who was it to be used by?

A. First it was thought of as a fighter factory, and then, a few weeks before the collapse, there was a conference of the armament gentlemen in Munich, at which it was agreed that it could be used for the manufacture of Buna; in other words, they changed their minds.

Q. What time did that conference at Munich take place?

A. That must have been about the end of March 1945.

Q. Now, with regard to Muehldorf, can you tell me where, primarily this labor was coming from?

A. These were Hungarian Jews. There were Germans there. Where they came from, that I don’t know.

Q. Well, now, with regard to these Hungarian Jews, can you tell me whether that was a result of a special action in Hungary?

A. I don’t believe so, but I don’t know. We were only told that we were going to receive Hungarian Jews. They were already in Germany, if I remember, but where they came from I don’t know because I didn’t concern myself with it.

Q. But you do recall that Hungarian Jews were used on that site?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, with regard to these other factories, we have covered Kaufering and Muehldorf, can you tell me the location of the others?

A. Vaihingen—that was a factory that was already under construction before the Todt Organization stepped in.

Q. Witness, where was that located?

A. V-a-i-h-i-n-g-e-n, and it is in Wuerttemberg.

Q. And how large was that construction?

A. It was a building about 100 meters by 60, four, five stories high.

Q. And do you recall what type of workers was used in that construction?

A. Concentration camp inmates, but I don’t know the number.

Q. And that was in Thuringia?

A. No, in Wuerttemberg.

Q. Now do you recall that any of these factories was to be located in the Protectorate?

A. One was to be erected there, yes, in the neighborhood of Prague but so far as I know they never got around to it. Perhaps the ground work was carried out and the machines were shipped there, but the factory itself was not actually built. Then there was to be another one in the Rhineland. I have already mentioned that.

Q. Witness, with regard to this factory in the Protectorate, can you give me the code name for that factory?

A. No, I don’t know it. It was about 50 kilometers north of Prague.

Q. And that was to be used by what company?

A. I can’t say, I don’t know.

Q. Can you give me any indication of the size of that factory?

A. The one north of Prague? Yes. That would have been about the same size as Kaufering, roughly, but, as I say, I really don’t know whether they got construction under way there.

Q. But you were to construct it?

A. Yes, it would have been done under my supervision, or under my direction. I was Speer’s representative and chief of the Todt Organization.

Q. But you don’t know how far along or whether construction was initiated there?

A. I cannot say for sure. I suppose that they started the construction, but so far as I know they really did not actually get this factory built.

Q. Now, with regard to this factory in the Rhineland, can you tell me where that was to be located?

A. I can’t remember the name any more. I was there once, and I can perhaps locate it on the map. It was west of the Rhine, 70 or 80 kilometers, but I can’t remember the name any longer. It was under construction, and then the construction was interrupted by military events, that is, about the time when the Americans entered the Rhineland on the Ruhr. Nor do I know whether concentration camp inmates were used there.

Q. Do you recall whether foreign labor was used?

A. In this factory? That I cannot say.

Q. You don’t recall constructing any factories for Wiener-Neustadt?

A. No.

Q. Or for the automobile works at Steyr, in Austria?

A. No.

Q. Focke-Wulf, in Bremen?

A. No, in Bremen we only built a U-boat factory.

Q. Do you recall constructing any factories for Heinkel?

A. That I don’t know. I wasn’t really interested in such questions, because I received the data from the Jaegerstab, and the Jaegerstab did the actual construction. The engineer of the Todt Organization built the house, and then the Jaegerstab took care of the rest. There were no discussions on my part with construction firms. Moreover, I didn’t even have time to carry out such things.

Q. But you got your labor through Schmelter, who was a member of the Jaegerstab?

A. Yes, he was a member of the Jaegerstab, and I have already said that he was also the leader of labor allocation in the Todt Organization. He was in charge. At first he was entirely within the Todt Organization, and then later he was what you might call the leader for the allocation of labor in Speer’s Ministry, and was in charge later of the allocation of labor in the Todt Organization. At the same time, he performed the same function in the Jaegerstab, so that automatically there was a connection between the Todt Organization and the Jaegerstab.

MR. KING: I have no further questions, your Honor.

_REDIRECT EXAMINATION_

DR. BERGOLD: Witness, I have one more question. When did these Hungarian Jews arrive at Muehldorf?

A. I do not know about Muehldorf, but I can recall that at Kaufering the first ones came—and here I must guess—at the end or the beginning of June 1944.

DR. BERGOLD: Thank you, I have no further questions.

MR. KING: I have one further question, if your Honor pleases.

DR. BERGOLD: I have just heard that the interpreter was inaccurate. The witness spoke of the end and the middle of June, and the interpreter said “the beginning of June”.

THE INTERPRETER: “The middle or the end of June” is what the witness said, but he is not sure about it.

_RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION_

MR. KING: Now, Witness, with respect to this construction at Kaufering, can you tell me when that was initiated?

A. In May of 1944 it must have begun, the beginning of May.

Q. And that was also true of the other fighter factories that you were to construct under the Hitler order?

A. Perhaps two weeks later the construction in Muehldorf began; the construction in Vaihingen that I mentioned before was already under way, and I took it over. The construction in the Rhineland started considerably later, it could have been perhaps at the end of June; Prague came along much later.

Q. Now, you say that you were at Kaufering on two separate occasions. Did you have any opportunity to—

A. (Interposing) I was in Kaufering three times. Do you want to know when? In May 1944; at the beginning of January 1945; and then once more just before the capitulation, perhaps two or three weeks before the capitulation.

Q. Do you recall anything about the conditions at Kaufering; that is, the conditions of labor?

A. I only saw the construction site. When I was in Munich, Niebermann, who was responsible for construction, told me that the Hungarian Jews were poorly clothed and poorly fed in part. I then told the competent SS man, whose name I no longer recall—but he was there in Munich, in Niebermann’s office—and I pointed out to him that this was the responsibility of the SS and he should see to it that these men were decently clothed.

Q. Witness, do you recall any reports of deaths of Hungarian Jews on the project?

A. Roughly, in October, our physicians told us that the fatalities in Kaufering were higher than normal. I then commissioned that physician to take up negotiations with the SS to improve conditions.

I should like to say explicitly that the Todt Organization was forbidden to enter the camps. The physician tried to send medicines to the camp, and was successful. I can remember a date, namely, one on which I was operated on—that is why I remember it—in November, at which time the physician told me that he had succeeded in bringing these bad hygienic conditions to an end after considerable effort. I remember the date because it coincided with a sickness of my own.

-----

[109] A group of experts, drawn from various phases of German industry and supplemented by representatives of the various ministries.

[110] Tr. pp. 300-1.

[111] Survey is published as part of document in Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, vol. IV, pp. 120-126, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, 1946.

[112] Defendant in case of U.S. _vs._ Oswald Pohl, et al. See Vol. V.

[113] Portions of this document were introduced by the defense as Defense Exhibit 12. See pp. 561-62.

[114] Other portions of this document were introduced by the defense as Defense Exhibit 13. See pp. 562-63.

[115] Portions of this document were introduced by the defense as Defend Exhibit 16. See pp. 564-65.

[116] Another portion of this document was introduced by the defense as Defense Exhibit 21. See pp. 565-66.

[117] Other portions of this document were introduced by the defense as Defense Exhibit 23. See pp. 566-67.

[118] Kammler was one of the leading officials of the Economic Administrative Main Office of the SS [Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt—WVHA]. See case of _United States_ vs. _Oswald Pohl, et al._, (_Vol. V_), concerning the WVHA which administered the utilization of concentration camp labor.

[119] Document was Speer Exhibit 34 in Trial before International Military Tribunal. See Trial of the Major War Criminals, vol. XVI, p. 589, Nuremberg, 1947.

[120] Defense Counsel, Dr. Bergold, explained (_Tr. p. 580_): “This proves that the Fuehrer himself ordered these large construction works, the execution of which is charged to the defendant.

Although I mentioned before that the Jaegerstab was of the opinion that it could only build one factory, the order was given by Hitler to build six. That was an impossible number. He delegated this duty to Mr. Dorsch. That man had his orders from the Fuehrer and not from the Jaegerstab, which, of course, was no longer responsible for his activities.”

[121] Portions of this document were introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 75. See pp. 544-45.

[122] DR. BERGOLD stated (_Tr. p. 567_): “I introduce this in order to show that the Jaegerstab meetings not always prove who was there at a certain given time and those meetings changed so that as far as the defendant Milch is mentioned, this does not prove he was there all of the time.”

[123] DR. BERGOLD explained (_Tr. p. 568_): “There was introduced by the prosecution and also presented an exhibit from this Jaegerstab conference where the term ‘construction company’ was mentioned in such a way. Those were companies of concentration camp inmates. This explains the term ‘construction company’ clearly.”

[124] Other portions of this document were introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 75. See pp. 545-46.

[125] Chief of the Construction Department in the Speer Ministry.

[126] Ibid.

[127] DR. BERGOLD stated (_Tr. p. 751_): “The prosecution has alleged that these great plants were made by slave labor, and I want to show that this plant in which, according to the allegations of the prosecution, Hungarian Jews were used, was not built by the Jaegerstab and that therefore the prosecution has not proved altogether that the Jaegerstab used Hungarian Jews.

The passage will show in a very short time that concentration camp inmates were not used. * * *”

[128] Portions of this document were introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 75. See pp. 550-52.

[129] Another portion of this document was introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 75. See pp. 554-55.

[130] DR. BERGOLD stated (_Tr. p. 584_): “Your Honors, in all civilized countries, also in Germany, penal prisoners have to work. If concentration camp inmates were put to work in Germany, this was done within the frame of the law which existed in Germany for the employment of criminal prisoners. This was nothing special. This work of concentration camp inmates cannot be considered slave work.”

[131] Other portions of this document were introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 75. See pp. 555-57.

[132] Complete testimony is recorded in mimeographed transcript, 6, 7 Feb. 47, pp. 717-759.

[133] Complete testimony is recorded in mimeographed transcript, 24 Feb. 47, pp. 1361-1379.

4. GENERALLUFTZEUGMEISTER[134]

Evidence

_Prosecution Documents_

Doc. No. Pros. Ex. No. Description of Document Page
NOKW-311 62 Extract from interrogation of 597
Hermann Goering on 6
September 1946, regarding
Milch’s position as
Generalluftzeugmeister (GL).

NOKW-418 136 Extracts from stenographic 598
minutes of GL-Conference, 5
May 1942.

NOKW-407 137 Extracts from stenographic 599
minutes of GL-Conference, 27
May 1942.

NOKW-406 138 Extracts from stenographic 599
minutes of the GL-Conference,
7 July 1942.

NOKW-408 139 Extracts from stenographic 600
minutes of GL-Conference, 28
July 1942.

NOKW-409 140 Extracts from stenographic 601
minutes of GL-Conference, 4
August 1942.

NOKW-412 141 Extracts from stenographic 602
minutes of GL-Conference, 18
August 1942.

NOKW-416 142 Extracts from stenographic 602
minutes of GL-Conference, 26
August 1942.

NOKW-286 144 Extracts from stenographic 605
minutes of GL-Conference, 1
September 1942.

NOKW-245 157 Extracts from stenographic 606
minutes of conference with
Goering, 22 February 1943,
regarding plans for airplane
construction.

NOKW-449 148 Extracts from stenographic 607
minutes of GL-Conference, 2
March 1943.

NOKW-195 143 Extracts from stenographic 608
minutes of conference with
Goering, 28 October 1943.

NOKW-180 155 Extracts from stenographic 613
notes on the conference at
the Reich Marshal’s on
Thursday, 4 November 1943, 11
o’clock at the Junkers Plant
in Dessau.

_Testimony_

Extracts from testimony of defense witness Max Koenig 615

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-311
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 62

EXTRACT FROM INTERROGATION OF HERMANN GOERING ON 6
SEPTEMBER 1946, REGARDING MILCH’S POSITION AS
GENERALLUFTZEUGMEISTER (GL)

* * * * *

INTERROGATOR: Now to the Milch case: Who was commissioned after 1941 with the labor allocation in the Ministry for Air?

GOERING: What am I to understand by “labor allocation”?

Q. Labor allocation consisted of the drawing in of foreign workers or German workers, especially of concentration camp inmates, in order to free them for air force production.

A. This matter went through Udet, the Chief of Supply for the Air Force, until Udet’s death, and then it went through Milch.

Q. In what manner did the Reich Air Ministry submit its requests to Sauckel and the approximate figure for its requirements, the number of workers, etc.? And if Sauckel received such a request from the Reich Air Ministry, how did he undertake the distribution?

A. The requests were made by Milch, it was he who said how many workers the air force needed, and these were forwarded to Speer. Speer then asked Sauckel for the workers for the entire armaments branch, almost for the entire industrial branch, and he then made the distribution. It was he in the end who made the final decision as to how many workers went to the air force for instance, how many to the army, etc. As far as I know, Sauckel had actually nothing to do with the distribution of labor. The contingent was put at the disposal of the authorities. Terrific pressure was continually brought to bear on Sauckel. If the requested number was not brought, he was given hell. I personally presided over a meeting where there were differences between Sauckel and Speer. He wanted to have more, etc. There was a mix-up and that’s how I know it; but the needs of the air force were put forward by Milch, that is the Chief of Supply for the Air Force. When difficulties arose and they did not get the people, and the program threatened to break down, then they came to me and I supported their demands.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-418
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 136

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
5 MAY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] Mi. 10.
Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY, FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH, ON TUESDAY, 5 MAY 1942,_
_10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

ALPERS: The reason given is shortage of labor. And in fact there are 2,000 men lacking at Heinkel-Oranienburg.

MILCH: As far as the French are concerned, 60,000 of the ones that we had been promised are still missing.

(Comment: 40,000 are missing.)

If we get those men I would assign 2,000 to Heinkel-Oranienburg.

FRYDAG: The French become worse and worse; I threw out 80 of them who will be sent to concentration camps in Russia. They refused to work. The French say at 4 o’clock: “I won’t work another hour,” and you cannot make them work another hour. This happened four weeks ago all of a sudden, when the first bombing attack on Paris took place, while before that the French were the best people.

MILCH: We were told in Oranienburg that they were good as long as they didn’t get spoiled by our German people.

FRYDAG: It happened here after we got the French from Messerschmitt; according to the French they got a warm meal twice a day there and had their laundry done. We cannot do either. We don’t have a warm meal twice a day either. At Messerschmitt the living conditions were better.

MILCH: Gablenz, I want you to get in touch with Reinecke concerning these French. I demand that if the people refuse to work they immediately be placed against the wall and shot before all the other workers. I ask you to get in touch with the Reich Leader SS and to ask him to discuss the matter with the Fuehrer. Now is the right time; unless we do something effective now, the others will become bothersome. I ask that their being sent to concentration camps be taken into consideration too. I’ll tell you afterwards how you should act in such a matter.

So I do not agree. You should make another proposal. At the beginning you cannot expect more.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-407
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 137

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 27 MAY 1942

[Three handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] To my

files Mi. 14

Vossen/Dr. Reynitz/Ca.

Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY, FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 27 MAY 1942,_
_9 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

VON GABLENZ: Yesterday, the first[135] has exploded in France, at the Arade plant, an explosive, a float, but no damage has been done.

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: What measures have been taken in consequence?—I want to have a report on what has been done. How many people have been shot and how many hanged? If that guy cannot be found today, fifty men should be selected and if I were you I would hang three or four of them whether they are guilty or not. It is the only way!

(Mahnke hands another letter to the Field Marshal.)

What do you think of that man?

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-406
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 138

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE GL-CONFERENCE,
7 JULY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] St/R 21

Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL MILCH ON_
_7 JULY 1942, 10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: I do not like the engine. I have inspected it and for the time being anyhow, I shall not take the 177 plane as a traveling plane.

With regard to the output of Prague I want to say this: Of course, one must recognize good output, even of a foreigner. On the other hand, as far as the French are concerned, something must be done now. Gablenz, ring up Toennes and tell him that this is a crazy situation [tolle Schweinerei]. However, we would still try first to arrange it in a friendly way through Toennes. If that does not succeed, then I intend to fill the new Heinkel plant in the east entirely with Frenchmen brought down there by force. If they don’t work in France, they may work as prisoners in Poland. After all we have to remember that it is we, and not the French, who have won the war.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-408
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 139

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
28 JULY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] St/R 24

Vossen/Dr. Jonuschat/C

Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY STATE SECRETARY FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH ON TUESDAY, 28 JULY 1942,_
_10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

ALPERS: We have discussed whether a stronger pressure should not be put upon French firms by both our liaison office and by us here. I have talked with the French works managers myself. Actually they are all of the same mind; they are willing to exert pressure, but then the workers will leave them. In France there is no law that binds a worker to his place of employment.

MILCH: As far as we are concerned, that is very difficult. But at the very moment when the deadline is passed for me, I shall say: Now there is no more French production. The workers are sent on leave or taken away immediately for other work. The French always want the proportion 1:5, but they only reach 1:2.3. In reality they have very much more, as we have received only old French junk. If we consider the actual output that we have received, then the proportion is not even 1:0.2, but exactly the contrary: 5:1 in favor of the French! At the present time we receive 8 to 9 planes from the French. I could well imagine that they get out 45 for themselves. I shall shut the shop with a single stroke and have the workers and the machines come to Germany. If it does not work on a voluntary basis, then we do it by compulsory contracts. Perhaps I shall first give them a week to think it over.

(ALPERS: Amio himself is behind. For him the surfaces and tail
unit factories are situated just right.)

—It is a fact that, on the whole, these people work in silent opposition. One cannot blame them for it either, it is true, but they should not have started the war.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-409
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 140

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
4 AUGUST 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] To my files, personally St/R 25

Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL MILCH_
_TUESDAY, 4 AUGUST 1942, 10 A.M. IN THE_
_REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

GEYER: In the west there is a danger of the French going on strike in the event of a British attack. In that case, the whole of the engine supply would be severely handicapped.

MILCH: In such a case I would ask to be appointed military commander myself. I would band the workers together and have 50 percent of them shot; I would then publish this fact and compel the other 50 percent to work, by beatings if necessary. If they don’t work, then they too will be shot. I would get the necessary replacement somehow. But I hope the military commander will do his duty. I’m not worried about it. The word “strike” must never be used. For us there is only “living or dying”, but not “striking”. That goes for the educated man as well as for the worker, for the German [Inlaender] as well as for the foreigner. The word “strike” means death for the man who uses it.

* * * * *

GABLENZ: Sauckel also made an effort but he does not have a completely free hand. Lt. Col. Nickolai and Stending are still standing in between.

MILCH: In spite of all, he has brought in quite a tidy number. Sauckel has brought over 1.6 million people to Germany, 1.3 million from the east and the rest from other countries.

GABLENZ: We should not be sorry if Sauckel not only took care of getting the workers, but also of distributing them. That way we would fare better.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-412
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 141

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
18 AUGUST 1942

[page 1874 of original]

[Handwritten marginal notes on attendance list] St/R 27

* * * * *

[page 1932 of original]

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: As soon as the figures for August are ready I request an exact account for my report to the Reich Marshal and also for the conferences which I want to hold with Sauckel and Speer beforehand. This account is to show how the labor question has developed, how great the fluctuation is and which nationalities it involves, what real requests we now have to make in the different sectors in order to cover the needs for specialists and for skilled and unskilled labor, how many of them can be foreigners, etc.? What happens to those who leave the industry? Are they being compelled to work elsewhere? Are they, as I proposed, under control in the camps supervised by the SS and considered as being in mild concentration camps, or are these gentlemen allowed to remain outside and do as they please?

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-416
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 142

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
26 AUGUST 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] St/R 29
Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONFERENCE OF_
_THE DIRECTOR OF SUPPLIES PRESIDED OVER BY_
_FIELD MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 26_
_AUGUST 1942, 11 A.M. IN THE REICH_
_AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

MILCH: Is Quartermaster General 6 here?

(Comment: Yes!)

Do you know anything about it?

(Comment: No!)

Ask about it and inform Colonel Brueckner!

FRYDAG: Another important consideration is the letter, which you yourself have signed, Field Marshal, dealing with the expiration of the labor contracts of the foreign workers. * * *

MILCH: The Reich Marshal [Goering] wanted to bind these people by law at one time, that was one idea. The Fuehrer’s plan would be more favorable. He wishes that the workers be gradually all replaced by Russians for whom there is no longer such a thing as expiration of contracts.

(Comment: But there is a certain transition period!)

BRUECKNER: You, Field Marshal, have yourself put your signature to this matter. The contracts are to be extended till 1 October 1943. I hope that it will be done.

* * * * *

MILCH: On the other hand, a number of these people have been drafted into the armed forces. But if I consider the others, I arrive all the same at a monthly total of about 30,000 who loaf around and fluctuate from job to job. According to the suggestions of the Reich Marshal, these people are to come under the care of Himmler and are to be handled severely there. What has been done, so far, in this regard? Brueckner, you know about this matter, don’t you?

(BRUECKNER: Yes!)

You do not seem to be informed quite correctly. Sometime ago we were quite irritated about the fact that so many workers move about from one factory to another, most of them antisocial elements who do not like to work and whom the firms are possibly glad to get rid of because they do nothing but complain and grumble, do no proper work, are constantly late, shirk work where they can, pretend to be sick, etc. These people were supposed to be handled more severely, and about a year ago the Reich Marshal issued an order and gave the Ministry of Labor the job of dealing with this matter firmly. Then the Ministry of Labor issued an explanatory order which was nothing but a sabotage of the order and the desire expressed by the Reich Marshal. I reported to the Reich Marshal—in the very words which I have just used—that in this case his will was clearly being sabotaged by some lawyers or other poor fellows and that I asked him to take measures against it. He told me that he would talk the matter over with Himmler. That is, I had suggested to him that this matter could only be settled with the help of Himmler’s organization. The armed forces are not in a position to do it. The suggestion had been made that the armed forces should take care of these people in camps but these workers are not ready for that. They have not been condemned and in no way violate the existing laws, but act only against their country which certainly does not yet come within the sphere of the old legal nonsense. That is why Himmler should get these people into his clutches because he can treat them outside the law. My suggestion was that the people should be put into camps or, in part, just get numbers. The person involved would have a passport in which it is entered that he is a German of this or that category, and that his number is so and so. Then there are subsequent entries: At this or that time he did not work, at this or that time he was late, etc. If he “loses” this passport—because he doesn’t want to have it anymore—off he goes to the concentration camp immediately; the same thing happens if he does not show it when ordered to do so. Once every month the pass is checked by the local SD. If it shows that the man has been ill, or late thirty times in one month, then the SD takes him along and gives him a job in which he has to work 14 hours a day and where he is treated in the way he deserves if he is not willing. The Reich Marshal has approved this suggestion. Nevertheless I have not yet seen anything of the kind being carried out.

BRUECKNER: I know that such labor camps have been established.

MILCH: In that case I want you to tell me exactly during the next conference, where these camps have been established, who is in charge of them, and how do we get these honorable gentlemen who do not want to work into them? * * * It is a simple matter to have these people taken care of somehow by the SD. It has only got to be taken in hand. I want to have a report on it as soon as possible. Otherwise I will talk to Himmler about it myself and see that this matter is taken very firmly in hand. I see in these people the greatest danger for the home front.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-286
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 144

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
1 SEPTEMBER 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] St/R 31 To my files
Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY STATE SECRETARY FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER_
_1942, 10 A.M. IN THE REICH_
_AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

DEUTSCHMANN: Reports have come in from front repair workshops that up to 40 percent of the people simply do not come to work. Because of the difficulties in the food supply they simply go out into the country in order to have something to eat. At the plant Mechanical Workshops [Mechanische Werkstaetten] I have found out that the Poles have not come because Russian pilots had dropped propaganda material. In one case, I have seen that about 50 percent of the workers failed to come.

MILCH: What do you do against that?

(DEUTSCHMANN: For the time being, I did not do anything.)

And where was that?—In Warsaw? In such a case, orders have to be given that these workers get a good beating. And Russian prisoners of war are used to give it to them.

DEUTSCHMANN: Just at the time when the Russians attacked I was planning to have 200 Poles transported to western Germany in order to fill a gap in the hoop production there. The conditions of procurement in Warsaw were such that I could afford it; therefore, I had no special reason to take measures.

MILCH: If those workers stay away from work just as they please then they need a good beating and this punishment is to be administered by Russians. Contact the SD; tell them that these workers had failed to come to work and that I demand that they be punished and not by having their food taken away from them but by the slightly milder punishment of 50 strokes each on their behind.

DEUTSCHMANN: Various unfortunate occurrences have happened together.

MILCH: I don’t care, these occurrences are none of my business. The unfortunate occurrence for the person involved is when he gets his good beating. And he should not fail to get it.

(DEUTSCHMANN: We have already drawn the attention of the Reich
Leader SS to it; something is going to be done about it.)

Such occurrences must not remain unpunished, they must not happen. If those people mutiny and do not work, then I demand that some shooting is done at those occasions. We do the same in Poland as the British do in India, with the only difference that the British deal with their own subjects, whereas we deal with the enemy. I want none of our people ever to show lack of action. I make every section chief responsible to take measures to that effect immediately. He is not to administer the beatings himself but to go to the SD and demand that this or that is done. What kind of measures they take we will leave to the SD, but I want to have a report on what has been done in such cases! What do you think would happen to a worker in Germany if he went on strike?

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-245
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 157

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF CONFERENCE
WITH GOERING, 22 FEBRUARY 1943, REGARDING PLANS
FOR AIRPLANE CONSTRUCTION

* * * * *

MILCH: * * * Just now things are not going well. Sauckel has agreed with Speer and myself that von der Heyde is to go to Paris to ascertain on the very spot what may be taken away. If we want to maintain the program we require an additional 80,000 workmen over there. Sauckel said he recognized that and promised to deliver them. If the promise is kept all will be all right.

REICH MARSHAL: What sense does it make to leave the workers there?

MILCH: There is no good will in France, and you can really not expect it from these fellows. But we will force them to work by not feeding them.

REICH MARSHAL: I can do this here much better.

MILCH: That’ll get us nowhere. We shall then have to shut down the plants in France.

REICH MARSHAL: The fault is this: Sauckel should have said: Milch, there are too many skilled workers in that plant; take so-and-so many out for your German plants; I am going to replace those skilled workers from our French workers pool. Otherwise there is no sense in his taking them away.

MILCH: Until six months ago we piloted the whole French industry by way of the government, but since then we changed and took sponsor-firms. * * *

REICH MARSHAL: I’ll tell Sauckel not to touch our industry at all. But we must do it ourselves.

MILCH: I told Sauckel that we will cooperate on all matters on the very spot, that we will get the thing done but not smash up anything that is producing for us or is going to produce. He admitted that his men had acted wrongly. * * * Speer and myself are of the opinion that he must be incorporated somehow in the Central Planning in order to secure manpower for us as well as the material. Now we got the first workers in November; prior to that date none at all. Of course, by taking into account the many fluctuations he arrives at fantastic figures. We try to diminish the fluctuations with the aid of Himmler and Ley. The military physicians are put in to examine the men. I have proposed that a man who leaves his working place more than three times a year, should be put into a detention camp and be released only when he stays on the very spot. * * *

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-449
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 148

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE,
2 MARCH 1943

[Handwritten marginal notes] To my files Mi

Secret

_SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE_
_PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY FIELD_
_MARSHAL MILCH ON TUESDAY, 2 MARCH 1943,_
_10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY_

* * * * *

MILCH: Another question! All the reports from France show that the French have got their heads full of political thoughts and ideas. On the basis of the news they tell themselves: They are retreating on the eastern front and the English and Americans are gradually getting afraid that the Russians alone will be victorious. The French go on to say: If the promises made to us by the Americans are really kept, our fortunes are made. That has already led to our foreign workers slowly becoming hostile. On principle I have to be informed of every case of swinishness. I do not understand at all why Germany should put up with it when Poles and Frenchmen explain to the people: Today indeed you are still sitting in this work, but later we shall be the owners and if you treat us properly we shall see to it then that you are shot dead immediately and not tortured first. In all these matters energetic interference must be made. I am of the opinion that there should be only two types of punishment in such cases: firstly, a concentration camp for foreigners, and secondly, capital punishment. If a certain number of such hostile elements are removed and the others are informed, they will then work better. Their love for us certainly won’t become any greater, but neither will their hate, for it is already strong enough. In this respect, too, energetic interference must be made and in no case must the workers put up with it. The best method is to give the person concerned one with a sledge-hammer and I shall treat with distinction every man who does something like that whenever he hears such stupid nonsense. We are living in a total war and the workers must be told that they don’t have to put up with anything. Now the question is whether or not the gentlemen believe on the whole that we achieve something worth mentioning with our production in France. For then we must consider that the establishments there will be besieged. Then the French would have to be forced to come to Germany. There I must reflect on whether the available means of compulsion are sufficient. That does not depend on me. But, in the abstract, I see no difficulties in the way of getting 100,000 or 200,000 French workers to Germany, nor do I see any difficulties in the way of keeping them in order. If a case of sabotage occurs in one area, every tenth man in that area will be shot. Then such acts of sabotage would cease of themselves. The western peoples are very much afraid of death, while it is a quite different matter with the Russians.

* * * * *

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-195
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 143

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF CONFERENCE WITH GOERING, 28
OCTOBER 1943

[Handwritten] Notes for Discussion No 116/43/KD st. 4th copy
[Signature] MILCH

_STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF THE DISCUSSION WITH_
_THE REICH MARSHAL ON 28 OCTOBER 1943,_
_12 O’CLOCK AT KARINHALL_

Subject: Allocation of Labor.
Effects of the Drafting of Laborers.

Participants:
Reich Marshal
Reich Minister Speer
Field Marshal Milch
Gauleiter Sauckel
General von der Heyde
Staatsrat Gritzbach
Ministerialrat Dr. Groennert
Ministerialdirektor Hildebrand
Landrat Berg
Lt. Colonel Biesing, GSC
Lt. Colonel von Brauchitsch, GSC
Director Frydag
Dr. Janicke/Dr. Eggeling/Bs

25 October 1943

* * * * *

MILCH: Interesting are the figures on the decrease of prisoners of war where one had believed they would remain stable. Between January and August the figure went down for the Russians from 22,000 to 19,000; for the others, from 48,000 to 28,000. In the summer the prisoners of war decreased from 70,000 to 48,000.

* * * * *

REICH MARSHAL: But here you report to me and to the Fuehrer: From 1 January to 30 September a total of 2,200,000 in manpower could be made available for armament production,

(Comment by SAUCKEL: But not for the first time.)

among whom there are 770,000 prisoners of war. Through allocation 300,000 of these who had been drafted for armament and the armed services, and those who left for other reasons, were replaced, and labor for the most important armament industries was increased by 650,000, from 5.3 million to 5.9 million.

(Reading continued.)

FRYDAG: Those are the total allocations.

(REICH MARSHAL: I took that to be net allocation.)

No, gross.

MILCH: The Luftwaffe has increased by 150,000 men; the army by 240,000; the navy by 50,000; military administration has remained stable. For the Wehrmacht armament alone, there has been an increase of 400,000 men. Then other industries, including state railway [Reichsbahn], postal service, experts basic materials industry, make a total increase of 5.29 million, i.e., an actual addition of 500,000 men in this whole area within half a year.

* * * * *

REICH MARSHAL: Then there is one more question which again belongs here and which in all seriousness must be discussed. Suppose that, in the central sector of Holland, between Arnhem, Utrecht, and Dortrecht, I place at your disposal for three days 15,000 young German soldiers—recruits who have been there eight days, together with their respective officers’ corps for handling the executive—to catch the young Dutchmen (this would have to be carefully prepared, of course)—would you expect good results? It goes without saying that everything must be well organized in advance, transport to move them out, camps to receive them here, far away from the Dutch frontier.

SAUCKEL: Considering the Dutch population figure that amounts to something. However, the same should be done in Poland and France.

REICH MARSHAL: Naturally, after that has been done once, one has to modify the system for the second blow. Then the Dutch people will no longer be out in the streets on Sundays for pleasure promenades.

SPEER: Care should be taken though, not to affect the protected industries which we have established there. Their workers are also out for walks on Sundays.

REICH MARSHAL: First, all of the people must be brought together in a pen [Pferch]; then they will be asked individually who works where, and then the men will be selected accordingly.

SAUCKEL: We should like to set an example. However, I do not like to rely on this alone for the next year; but I should like to ask that one have the confidence in us that, reasonably speaking we are doing things in the right way. The factories which Speer barred to us * * *.

REICH MARSHAL: Really I am not imposing. But when I constantly hear: I could do very much if I only had the executive power, then I am ready to assist you, not permanently, but then, for five days or one week, by putting my men at your disposal. In France also we have training regiments, and the army, too, could arrange to make certain units available so as to make a big push.

SAUCKEL: If I may be permitted to speak quite frankly, the conditions are as follows: All of our Military Commanders, and also our Commissioners General—with the exception of Koch—also the general governors, take the stand that in all of their regions the supreme law is tranquility and order. Also during the present era of war these German people still feel—after all that is typically German—the inherent obligation of maintaining order in their country and of somehow protecting the local population.

(REICH MARSHAL: They do not see Germany, but Seyss-Inquart sees
Holland only.)

That is the greatest difficulty which we face, and in spite of the obduracy which is there I am of the opinion that we really have more friends in these countries than we imagine. I shall place my reports at your disposal, among them a detailed report of a Flemish man, an economist who lives with his wife in Weimar, works there, and who at the same time looks after the Flemish people in my district. The matter is as follows: Our highest political authorities in these countries cultivate to some extent social contacts with the local high society; thus in Belgium, bluntly stated, with elite circles, the high financial circles, and leaders of industry. They show to the German commanders in chief a certain demeanor of courteousness and of conventionality and thereby satisfy our gentlemen to a great extent. Under this mask, however, they permit their nearest subordinate organizations to persecute and harass everybody who is in any way friendly to Germany. Unwillingly and without being suspected by our gentlemen [Herren] we have in this manner placed the Germans who were there under pressure. They all have become fearful, and they bar their minds against Germany, and those who really did something for Germany resign.

* * * * *

REICH MARSHAL: * * * Our method of procedure in the expansion of the large air fields, Sauckel, would then be that, we try, first of all, to get a hold of the available labor in the vicinity of the harbors in France, Belgium, and Holland which so far has not been recruited in any manner by Speer or by the Luftwaffe, or by you—just as the Russians do, and as the British now also are doing in Southern Italy and Sicily. There is a scarcity of water there and he who loafs is not permitted to come near the water tap. They are very strict on this point. Now, in the fifth year of the war, we too must be just as strict. And over and above this I still need workers who will be fetched from regions farther away if those from the immediate vicinity are not sufficient. And then come specialists, whom Speer makes available from his organization, the engine operators and so forth. If I am to rearm the Luftwaffe with everything that is conceivable now, I do need a considerable reserve stock of laborers. Technical workers must be included. This is in addition to the number necessary for fulfilling needs arising from actual fluctuation and departure of workers. Now that would have to be considered in detail.

SAUCKEL: May I call attention to the following: That which makes things very difficult for me at the moment is the question of our currency. It is a fact that prices in France, and in the entire west, are very much out of proportion. If we bring the workers to Germany and, according to German standards, we pay them just as well as the German workers, that does not help them at all because their families living in the occupied territories cannot buy anything with the money that the people transfer. I should like to ask you, Herr Reich Marshal, to talk with Reich Minister Funk and the other competent officials so that under all circumstances and with all possible means the German mark will preserve its purchasing power against the French franc, just as it was done on the other side, during the World War.

REICH MARSHAL: All we need to do is to fix the rate of exchange, just as was done at that time with the dollar, i.e., today the German mark equals 20 francs, tomorrow 23, then 27, then 40, etc., etc., up to one million, or one billion. We have had all that. The same holds true for the guilder. One cigarette now costs in Holland 1.50 guilders; formerly it cost 10 cents. I merely have to say: 1.50 guilders equal to 10 pfennigs, or one mark equals 15 guilders.

SAUCKEL: That would solve a big problem in the wage question.

REICH MARSHAL: The same is done in Belgium. I shall schedule a discussion on that with Mr. Funk. With friendly nations it is more difficult; nevertheless, there, too, we have to do it.

SAUCKEL: There is still something I should like to say. If this large-scale recruiting is carried into effect, even with coercion, it is nothing but compliance with laws which were promulgated there by their own governments, except that the governments declare they lack the executive power.

REICH MARSHAL: That is always the excuse; I simply shall give them the executive power.

Well, let me summarize it once more. We undoubtedly are agreed on the fact that what Sauckel brings to us here, and that which to us appears as stocking up, has been subject to a natural compromise and actually a greater number of people was necessary, to make up for the losses. If it had been impossible to obtain more labor there would, of necessity, have been a decrease, merely by reason of the draft, the increased rate of disease during the war, deaths, etc. The decrease in prisoners of war should really be insignificant unless there are modifications; on the contrary, I should like to see that the prisoners of war who had been released, Norwegians, and so forth, be taken again. Insofar as officers are concerned this has been done to a certain extent. It was the greatest nonsense ever committed by us and for which nobody thanks us. We have made prisoners of entire armies and we let them go again. We do not get anything from Norway?

SAUCKEL: No. Even Russians are being taken there, also French specialists.

(REICH MARSHAL: Why?)

The tasks there are much bigger than the population could cope with.

* * * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-180
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 155

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC NOTES ON THE CONFERENCE AT
THE REICH MARSHAL’S ON THURSDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 1943,
11 O’CLOCK AT THE JUNKERS PLANT IN DESSAU

* * * * *

THE REICH MARSHAL: Give the prisoner-of-war camp [Stalag] commander my greetings and tell him I said the Stalag is the biggest racket in Germany and merely a camp where get-aways are being organized wholesale. The men do not even have to bother to dig a tunnel, since they can walk out freely in broad daylight. The Italians get beaten up when they do not work. * * * It is absolutely useless to take the Italians as soldiers, for they report for duty, it is true, but then they bolt again. We need them here, however, as workers for the 100,000 men operation. In the second place, why do we not get the machines? If I want to have them, I just have to occupy a factory by surprise.

MILCH: There are no transportation facilities to make this possible. We have to let certain plants go on working in Italy, such as ball bearings, steel castings, and others, and we cannot take the people from there. The same applies to the technical sphere. The people there are working for us. All depends on our policy toward the Italians. I have ordered that they can be beaten up if they do not work. I have also given permission that Italians caught sabotaging be sentenced to death. If this measure is not desired by the higher authorities, which seems to be the case, we are powerless; then the Italians in the Reich will not be of any use to us, and they will not do anything down there either. Now the Italian has found the way out, he goes into the militia and, once he is over there, he bolts. There is one other way to make him work; if we do not provide the Italian with food and tell him: only those who fight and work for us will get food.

(THE REICH MARSHAL: That is what the Americans do!)

Why do we not do it? In my opinion we should try to get the machines by force. We can manufacture 1,000 pursuit planes in Italy and the engines for them. The engines will go only through Junkers, the other parts only through Messerschmitt. I should like to have the 109 and the 605 in Italy while they are still working, so that we can modernize our factories. We have the further advantage that the enemy drops his bombs not only on Germany, but also on Italy. We can disperse industry there in small valleys and we need not use the big Milan plants. The situation there is rather favorable.

THE REICH MARSHAL: Above all, this question must be discussed at once with the Fuehrer.

(End of the conference at 11:45 p.m.)

* * * * *

St 149-43 III gK [Stamp]

Top Secret