Chapter XIX: Part 19

Mr. DAY. I was in the identification bureau at the city hall. About a quarter of one I was in the basement of the city hall, which is three floors under me--actually I am on the fourth floor--and a rumor swept through there that the President had been shot.

I returned to my office to get on the radio and wait for the developments. Shortly before 1 o'clock I received a call from the police dispatcher to go to 411 Elm Street, Dallas.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular building at that particular location?

Mr. DAY. The Texas School Book Depository, I believe is the correct name on it.

Mr. BELIN. Did you go there?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I went out of my office almost straight up 1 o'clock. I arrived at the location on Elm about 1:12.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. DAY. I was directed to the sixth floor by the police inspector who was at the front door when I arrived.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know who that was?

Mr. DAY. Inspector Sawyer.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the sixth floor?

Mr. DAY. I had to go up the stairs. The elevator--we couldn't figure out how to run it. When I got to the head of the stairs, I believe it was the patrolman standing there, I am not sure, stated they had found some hulls over in the northeast corner of the building, and I proceeded to that area--excuse me, southeast corner of the building.

Mr. BELIN. Now, in your 23 years of work for the Dallas Police Department, have you had occasion to spend a good number of these years in crime-scene matters?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. How long, about?

Mr. DAY. The past 7 years I have been--I have had immediate supervision of the crime-scene search section. It is our responsibility to go to the scene of the crime, take photographs, check for fingerprints, collect any other evidence that might be available, and primarily we are to assist the investigators with certain technical parts of the investigation.

Mr. BELIN. Do you carry any equipment of any kind with you when you go there?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir. We have a station wagon equipped with fingerprint equipment, cameras, containers, various other articles that might be needed at the scene of the crime.

Mr. BELIN. Have you had any special education or training or background insofar as your crime-scene work is concerned?

Mr. DAY. In the matter of fingerprints, I have been assigned to the identification bureau 15 years. During that time I have attended schools, the Texas Department of Public Safety, on fingerprinting; also an advanced latent-print school conducted in Dallas by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have also had other schooling with the Texas Department of Public Safety and in the local department on crime-scene search and general investigative work.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I believe you said that you were informed when you got there that they had located some hulls?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

Mr. DAY. I went to the northeast corner--southeast corner of the building, and first made photographs of the three hulls.

Mr. McCLOY. What floor was this?

Mr. DAY. On the sixth floor. I took photographs of the three hulls as they were found before they were moved.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you some pictures here and ask you to say if these pictures are the photographs you took. First, I will hand you a picture marked "Commission Exhibit 715," and ask you to state, if you know, what this is.

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir. That is one of the photographs we made of the hulls on the floor.

Mr. BELIN. Now, who took the actual picture?

Mr. DAY. Detective Studebaker; R. L. Studebaker.

Mr. BELIN. Who is he?

Mr. DAY. At my direction.

Mr. BELIN. Who is he?

Mr. DAY. He is one of the officers who took this under my supervision, and he accompanied me from the office to this building.

Mr. BELIN. Can you see in this picture the location of the hulls?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you could take this pen and circle the hulls that you see there.

Mr. McCLOY. I only see two.

Mr. DAY. The other one doesn't show in this picture, I don't believe.

Mr. BELIN. You have circled two hulls that appear to be resting near what would be the south wall of the building; is that correct?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Can you see the third hull in that picture?

Mr. DAY. I think you can barely see the tip end of it sticking out there. I believe that is it.

Mr. BELIN. Do you want to circle where you think you can see the third tip sticking out? I am now going to hand you what is marked "Commission Exhibit No. 716," and ask you to state, if you know, what this is.

Mr. DAY. This is another view taken from a different angle of the same location. All three hulls are clearly visible here.

Mr. BELIN. Would you circle the three hulls on Exhibit 716? Do you know whether or not Exhibit 716 and Exhibit 715 were taken before these hulls were moved?

Mr. DAY. They were taken before anything was moved, to the best of my knowledge. I was advised when I got there nothing had been moved.

Mr. BELIN. Who so advised you?

Mr. DAY. I believe it was Detective Sims standing there, but I could be wrong about that.

Mr. BELIN. Now, turning again to Exhibit 715, I notice that there is a box in a window which is partially open. I am going to first ask you to state what window this is.

Mr. DAY. This is the south window closest to Houston Street or, in other words, it is the easternmost window on the south side of the building on the sixth floor.

Mr. BELIN. Was this window in about the same location with respect to how far it was open at the time you got there?

Mr. DAY. That is the position it was in when I got there.

Mr. BELIN. All right. I notice boxes throughout the picture, including the box in the window. To the best of your knowledge, had any of those boxes been moved prior to the time the picture, Exhibit 715, was taken?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; they had not.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I am going to show you a picture which has been identified previously in Commission testimony as Commission Exhibit 482, which purports to have been a picture taken by a newspaper photographer shortly after the assassination, showing the easternmost windows on the south side of the fifth and the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.

You will notice there are two Negro males looking out of the lower pair of windows, which would be the fifth-floor windows, and above that there is one window which appears to be open with a box or boxes in it.

I am going to first ask you to state whether or not the boxes in that picture, Exhibit 482, appear to be in the same location as you saw them when you first got on the crime scene.

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I believe they are.

Mr. BELIN. Now, as you face the picture, the box to the right, which would be to the east, has a corner sticking out, or just a corner of the box shows. Is that the same box that appears to be resting on the window ledge in Exhibit 715?

Mr. DAY. In my opinion, it is.

Mr. BELIN. I also note there is another box that appears to be in the window on Exhibit 482. Is this box shown at all on either Exhibit 715 or 716, if you know?

Mr. DAY. No; I don't think it is.

Mr. BELIN. What do you think happened to this other box in the window on Exhibit 482?

Mr. DAY. I think the box you see through the window is to the west of the box you see here.

Mr. BELIN. You are pointing out that the box you see in the window, and you are now pointing to Exhibit 482----

Mr. DAY. I think that is east of the four boxes shown in your No. 715. Well, there are----

Mr. BELIN. Let me give you another question. On Exhibit 715 there is only one box shown in the window actually resting on the ledge, which is the box that you identified the corner out of in the eastern part of the window shown on 482.

Now, what is the fact as to whether or not this other box on 482 would have been resting on the ledge, or is it a pictorial view of something that actually was in back of the window?

Mr. DAY. I think this is one of the boxes 2 feet 11 inches back from the wall. There were two stacks of them, one behind the window sill that you see here.

Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the window sill between the pair of windows on Exhibit 482?

Mr. DAY. That you can't see in this picture. This one is the other one I am trying to say, this stack here--there are two stacks of boxes here. This one is behind here. You can't see it.

Mr. BELIN. What you are pointing is, as you point to Exhibit 715, you are saying that the tier of boxes which is in the left foreground, if you were standing outside taking a picture, would be hidden by the heavy beam between the windows, but beyond that, to the east of that, there is another tier of boxes of which you think this other box in Exhibit 482 is one; am I correct? Is this correct?

Mr. DAY. That is correct.

Mr. BELIN. Handing you Exhibit 716, will you see this at all on Exhibit 716?

Mr. DAY. This is the box, I think, showing here.

Mr. BELIN. Do you want to make an X on the box on Exhibit 716 that you think is the other box showing in the window on Exhibit 482?

Mr. DAY. The corner that is showing I don't believe shows in the picture.

Mr. BELIN. All right. You put an X on a box which I would say, looking at this picture, appears to be the fourth box starting from the bottom count, and you believe that is the picture or--that is the box that is shown in the window?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. DAY. I don't know what time this was taken. Do you?

Mr. BELIN. Well, you are asking with regard to Exhibit 482? We know it was taken, I would say, not more than a minute after the shooting. This is our best recollection based on testimony of the two people in the window below, because this was their position as they saw the shooting, and the photographer himself says that after the shots were fired, he jumped out of the motorcade and took two shots of the building. This could have been the first or the second shot he took. He used two different cameras, so I don't imagine it would have been very long after the actual shots were fired.

For the record, I should add one other thing at this point. There is testimony by the deputy sheriff that found the shells, that after he found them he leaned out of the window to call down to try and tell someone that he found something, and it is conceivable that he moved a box, although he did not so testify. In other words, I don't want you to take this as the testimony of anyone----

Mr. DAY. What I am getting at, this box doesn't jibe with my picture of the inside.

Mr. BELIN. You are pointing now to the other box on Exhibit 482. You say that does not jibe with the chart that you have here that you brought with you of boxes that you had inside.

Let me ask you this: When did you prepare your chart of boxes inside?

Mr. DAY. This chart here was prepared on the 25th. However, pictures were made immediately after my arrival.

Mr. BELIN. You are talking now about Exhibit 715 and Exhibit 716?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; don't jibe with that box there.

Mr. BELIN. What I am asking you then is this: Is it possible that the box that is shown on Exhibit 482 is not shown on Exhibit 715 and Exhibit 716? By that I mean not the box that you see a corner of, but I am talking about the other box that is clear to the west of the easternmost window.

Mr. DAY. I just don't know. I can't explain that box there depicted from the outside as related to the pictures that I took inside.

Mr. BELIN. In other words, what you are saying is that on the sixth floor window the westernmost box on Exhibit 482, you cannot then relate to any of the boxes shown on Exhibits 715 or 716?

Mr. DAY. That is correct.

Mr. BELIN. Do you wish to correct your testimony with regard to the X you placed on the fourth box on the stack in Exhibit 716?

Mr. DAY. Yes; that is just not the same box. It is not the same box. This is the first time I have seen No. 482.

Mr. BELIN. All right. We will substitute for 716 then a copy of the picture without the X mark on it.

Mr. McCLOY. 482 was taken by the news photographer?

Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. Immediately after the shooting?

Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. The two colored men were still in the position where they were?

Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir. He actually took two pictures. He took one of the building--that showed most of the south side of the building, and another with a different kind of lens that was aimed up to that particular corner. I will check to see if I can find the other picture, Mr McCloy. Commission Exhibit 480 is the first picture that he took, or I shouldn't say the first--one of the two pictures he took.

You can see the southeast corner window on the sixth floor, and I will show you, Lieutenant Day, that you can still see two of those boxes there, and you can see on the window below, at least you can see, one of the Negro men. The other picture was Exhibit 481, and I believe 482 was actually an enlargement of 481.

Mr. DAY. I still don't quite understand that one in relation to pictures here unless something was moved after this was taken before I got there.

Mr. BELIN. What you are saving is on that southeast corner window, on the sixth floor, you do not understand the box that is the westernmost box of the two boxes in the window unless it was moved by someone before you got there to take the pictures?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What about the other box as shown on Exhibit 482, does that appear to be in substantially the same position as the box in the window shown on your Exhibit 715?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; it appears to be the same.

Mr. BELIN. Now, on Exhibit 715, that box appears to be almost resting against the east part of the window where it does not so appear on Exhibit 482. Is this an optical illusion on 715?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I don't think it was up against the window sill. It was over as indicated on 482.

Mr. BELIN. Lieutenant Day, you took some two pictures of those shell casings. Let me first get you through all the pictures you took.

Where did you next take pictures on the sixth floor after you took the pictures of the shell casing; what did you do then?

Mr. DAY. I went, after these were taken--after your number----

Mr. BELIN. 715 and 716.

Mr. DAY. Were taken, I processed these three hulls for fingerprints, using a powder. Mr. Sims picked them up by the ends and handed them to me. I processed each of the three; did not find fingerprints. As I had finished that, Captain Fritz sent word for me to come to the northwest part of the building, the rifle had been found, and he wanted photographs.

Mr. BELIN. All right. You have mentioned these three hulls. Did you put any initials on those at all, any means of identification?

Mr. DAY. At that time they were placed in an envelope and the envelope marked. The three hulls were not marked at that time. Mr. Sims took possession of them.

Mr. BELIN. Well, did you at any time put any mark on the shells?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Let me first hand you what has been marked as "Commission Exhibit," part of "Commission Exhibit 543-544," and ask you to state if you know what that is.

Mr. DAY. This is the envelope the shells were placed in.

Mr. BELIN. How many shells were placed in that envelope?

Mr. DAY. Three.

Mr. BELIN. It says here that, it is written on here, "Two of the three spent hulls under window on sixth floor."

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you put all three there?

Mr. DAY. Three were in there when they were turned over to Detective Sims at that time. The only writing on it was, "Lieut. J. C. Day." Down here at the bottom.

Mr. BELIN. I see.

Mr. DAY. "Dallas Police Department," and the date.

Mr. BELIN. In other words, you didn't put the writing in that says, "Two of the three spent hulls."

Mr. DAY. Not then. About 10 o'clock in the evening this envelope came back to me with two hulls in it. I say it came to me, it was in a group of stuff, a group of evidence, we were getting ready to release to the FBI. I don't know who brought them back. Vince Drain, FBI, was present with the stuff, the first I noticed it. At that time there were two hulls inside.

I was advised the homicide division was retaining the third for their use. At that time I marked the two hulls inside of this, still inside this envelope.

Mr. BELIN. That envelope, which is a part of Commission Exhibits 543 and 544?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I put the additional marking on at that time.

Mr. BELIN. I see.

Mr. DAY. You will notice there is a little difference in the ink writing.

Mr. BELIN. But all of the writing there is yours?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now, at what time did you put any initials, if you did put any such initials, on the hull itself?

Mr. DAY. At about 10 o'clock when I noticed it back in the identification bureau in this envelope.

Mr. BELIN. Had the envelope been opened yet or not?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; it had been opened.

Mr. BELIN. Had the shells been out of your possession then?

Mr. DAY. Mr. Sims had the shells from the time they were moved from the building or he took them from me at that time, and the shells I did not see again until around 10 o'clock.

Mr. BELIN. Who gave them to you at 10 o'clock?

Mr. DAY. They were in this group of evidence being collected to turn over to the FBI. I don't know who brought them back.

Mr. BELIN. Was the envelope sealed?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Had it been sealed when you gave it to Mr. Sims?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; no.

Mr. BELIN. Handing you what has been marked "Exhibit 545," I will ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. DAY. This is one of the hulls in the envelope which I opened at 10 o'clock. It has my name written on the end of it.

Mr. BELIN. When you say, on the end of it, where on the end of it?

Mr. DAY. On the small end where the slug would go.

Mr. BELIN. And it has "Day" on it?

Mr. DAY. Scratched on there; yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. With what instrument did you scratch it on?

Mr. DAY. A diamond point pencil.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone else scratch any initials on it that you know of?

Mr. DAY. I didn't see them. I didn't examine it too close at that time.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know what kind of a cartridge case that is?

Mr. DAY. It is a 6.5.

Mr. BELIN. Is that the same kind of a cartridge case that you saw when you first saw these cartridge cases?

Mr. DAY. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any other testimony you have with regard to the chain of possession of this shell from the time it was first found until the time it got back to your office?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; I told you in our conversation in Dallas that I marked those at the scene. After reviewing my records, I didn't think I was on all three of those hulls that you have, indicating I did not mark them at the scene, then I remembered putting them in the envelope, and Sims taking them.

It was further confirmed today when I noticed that the third hull, which I did not give you, or come to me through you, does not have my mark on it.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I did interview you approximately 2 weeks ago in Dallas, more or less?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. At that time what is the fact as to whether or not I went into extended questions and answers as contrasted with just asking you to tell me about certain areas as to what happened? I mean, I questioned you, of course, but was it more along the lines of just asking you to tell me what happened, or more along the lines of interrogation, the interrogation we are doing now?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Which one?

Mr. DAY. Wait a minute now. Say that again. I am at a loss.

Mr. BELIN. Maybe it would be easier if I just struck the question and started all over again.

Mr. DAY. I remember you asking me if I marked them.

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. DAY. I remember I told you I did.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. DAY. I got to reviewing this, and I got to wondering about whether I did mark those at the scene.

Mr. BELIN. Your testimony now is that you did not mark any of the hulls at the scene?

Mr. DAY. Those three; no, sir.

Mr. BELIN. I believe you said that you examined the three shells today?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. While you were waiting to have your testimony taken here?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; that is what confirmed my thinking on this. The envelope now was marked.

Mr. BELIN. And the shells were in the same envelope that it was marked?

Mr. DAY. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I am going to ask you to state if you know what Commission Exhibit 543 is?

Mr. DAY. That is a hull that does not have my marking on it.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not this was one of the hulls that was found at the School Book Depository Building?

Mr. DAY. I think it is.

Mr. BELIN. What makes you think it is?

Mr. DAY. It has the initials "G. D." on it, which is George Doughty, the captain that I worked under.

Mr. BELIN. Was he there at the scene?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; this hull came up, this hull that is not marked came up, later. I didn't send that.

Mr. BELIN. This was----

Mr. DAY. That was retained. That is the hull that was retained by homicide division when the other two were originally sent in with the gun.

Mr. BELIN. You are referring now to Commission Exhibit 543 as being the one that was retained in your possession for a while?

Mr. DAY. It is the one that I did not see again.

Mr. BELIN. It appears to be flattened out here. Do you know or have you any independent recollection as to whether or not it was flattened out at the small end when you saw it?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. BELIN. Now, handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 544, I will ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. DAY. This is the second hull that was in the envelope when I marked the two hulls that night on November 22.

Mr. BELIN. I have now marked this envelope, which was formerly a part of Commission Exhibits 543 and 544 with a separate Commission Exhibit No. 717, and I believe you testify now that Commission Exhibit 544 was the other shell that was in the envelope which has now been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 717.

Mr. DAY. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Does that cartridge case, Exhibit 544, have your name on it again?

Mr. DAY. It has my name on the small end where the slug would go into the shell.

Mr. BELIN. Are all of the three shells of the same caliber?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any other testimony you have with regard to the cartridge cases themselves?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Can you explain how you processed these shells for fingerprints?

Mr. DAY. With black fingerprint----

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask before you get to that, is this all your handwriting?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. The narrative as well as the signature?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this and this. That is not, this is not.

Mr. McCLOY. Who is that, what is that initial, do you know?

Mr. DAY. I think that is Vince Drain, the FBI agent it was released to. It looks like a "V. D." I don't know whether his initial is "E" or not.

Mr. McCLOY. Can you identify those marks up there, what they are?

Mr. DAY. Those "Q" numbers, I believe, are FBI numbers affixed here in Washington.

Mr. BELIN. Returning to Exhibit 717----

Mr. McCLOY. Not returning. That is what that last question was about.

Mr. BELIN. I believe the last questions were the initials on the cartridge cases. Strike the question then.

We will start all over again. On Commission Exhibit No. 717 I see some initials with the notation "11-22-63" in the upper left-hand corner as you take a look at the side which has all of your writing on it here. Do you know whose initials those are?

Mr. DAY. I think it is Vince Drain, FBI, but I am not sure.

Mr. BELIN. You think it is the initials of Vincent E. Drain?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I am not sure if his middle initial is "E". I know it is Vince Drain.

Mr. BELIN. Now, on the other side I see some other initials on here with some date and time. Do you know whose initials those are?

Mr. DAY. "R. M. S." stands for R. M. Sims, the detective whom I turned it over to. That is the date and the time that he took it from me.

Mr. BELIN. What date and time does it show?

Mr. DAY. November 22, 1963, 1:23 p.m.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I believe you originally stated that you had all three of these cartridge hulls put in Exhibit 717, is that correct?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. And then you turned it over to Detective Sims?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Was the envelope sealed when you turned it over to Detective Sims?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; I don't think so.

Mr. BELIN. Did you seal it?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When you got the envelope back later that night was the envelope sealed?

Mr. DAY. I don't think so.

Mr. BELIN. To the best of your knowledge, had it been sealed and reopened or was it just unsealed?

Mr. DAY. To the best of my knowledge it was not sealed. It is possible I could be wrong on that, but I don't think it was sealed.

Mr. McCLOY. In order to make the record perfectly clear, at least my understanding perfectly clear, did I understand that you testified that your initial which appears on that exhibit was--not your initial but your signature which appears on that exhibit was--put on there before the other writing, namely to the effect that there were two of the three hulls enclosed, that was put on the envelope?

Mr. BELIN. You are referring, Mr. McCloy, to the signature on the bottom of Commission Exhibit 717, "Lieutenant J. C. Day."

Mr. McCLOY. That is what I am referring to.

Mr. DAY. That was put on there before.

Mr. McCLOY. That was put on there----

Mr. DAY. At 1:23 p.m.

Mr. BELIN. And the remainder of the writing was put on that night at the Dallas Police Department, is that right?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; about the same time that I marked those two hulls.

Mr. BELIN. Could you tell us what exactly you did in testing those hulls for fingerprints?

Mr. DAY. I used fingerprint powder, dusted them with the powder, a dark powder. No legible prints were found.

Mr. BELIN. After you did this, you dusted the prints and you put them in the envelope, 717, and then what did you do?

Mr. DAY. I released them to Detective Sims or rather he took them.

Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do?

Mr. DAY. At that time I was summoned to the northwest corner of the building.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. DAY. Sir?

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. DAY. I met Captain Fritz. He wanted photographs of the rifle before it was moved.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if Captain Fritz told you that the rifle had not been moved?

Mr. DAY. He told me he wanted photographs before it was moved, if I remember correctly. He definitely told me it had not been moved, and the reason for the photographs he wanted it photographed before it was moved.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what the reporter has marked or what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 718, and ask you to state, if you know, what this is.

Mr. DAY. This is a photograph made by me of the rifle where it was found in the northwest portion of the sixth floor, 411 Elm Street, Dallas.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 719 and ask you to state if you know what that is.

Mr. DAY. It is a picture of the portion of the northwest floor where the rifle was found. This is a distance shot showing the stack of boxes.

Mr. BELIN. Is Commission Exhibit 718 a print from the same negative as Commission Exhibit 514?

Mr. DAY. The same negative?

Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DAY. No, I don't think so. This is a copy of this picture.

Mr. BELIN. You are saying 514 was made, I assume, as a copy of 718. By that you mean a negative, a second negative, was made of 718 from which 514 was taken?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Otherwise it is the same?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. 718 appears to be a little clearer and sharper.

Mr. DAY. You can tell from looking at the two pictures which is the copy.

Mr. BELIN. Was any other picture of that rifle made in that position?

Mr. DAY. Nos. 22 and 23 were both made.

Mr. BELIN. Your pictures which you have marked No. 22 and No. 23 were both made, one was made by you, is that Commission Exhibit 718----

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. And the other was made by----

Mr. DAY. Detective Studebaker.

Mr. BELIN. Whose knee appears?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; showing. Identical shots, we just made both to be sure that one of us made it, and it would be in focus.

Mr. BELIN. For this reason I am introducing only 718, if that is satisfactory.

Mr. McCLOY. Very well.

Mr. BELIN. How did you stand to take the picture, Exhibit 718?

Mr. DAY. I was on top of a stack of boxes to the south of where the gun was found.

Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you could put on Exhibit 719 the location with an "X" where you stood to take the picture, 718.

Mr. DAY. I was in that position looking this way, but you can't tell which box I was on looking from that angle.

Mr BELIN. I mean, you have placed an "X" on Exhibit 719. Were you sitting or standing on top of a stack of boxes in that general area?

Mr. DAY. Kneeling.

Mr. BELIN. Kneeling?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. In what direction would your face have been?

Mr. DAY. Facing north and down.

Mr. BELIN. Facing north and looking down?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; to the floor.

Mr. BELIN. Can you see the rifle at all in Exhibit 719?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Had the rifle been removed when 719 was taken, if you know?

Mr. DAY. I don't remember.

Mr. BELIN. Could you locate with an arrow on Exhibit 719 the place where the rifle would have been?

Mr. DAY. Here.

Mr. BELIN. You have so noted with an arrow on 719. Was the rifle resting on the floor or not?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. It was?

Mr. DAY. The rifle was resting on the floor.

Mr. BELIN. What else did you do in connection with the rifle at that particular time?

Mr. DAY. Captain Fritz was present. After we got the photographs I asked him if he was ready for me to pick it up, and he said, yes. I picked the gun up by the wooden stock. I noted that the stock was too rough apparently to take fingerprints, so I picked it up, and Captain Fritz opened the bolt as I held the gun. A live round fell to the floor.

Mr. BELIN. Did you initial that live round at all?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; my name is on it.

Mr. BELIN. When did you place your name on this live round, if you remember?

Mr. DAY. How?

Mr. BELIN. When?

Mr. DAY. At the time, that was marked at the scene.

Mr. BELIN. Handing you Commission Exhibit No. 141. I will ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. DAY. It has "Day" on it where I scratched it on the small end where the slug goes into the shell.

Mr. BELIN. What is this, what is Exhibit 141?

Mr. DAY. That is the live round that fell from the rifle when Captain Fritz opened the bolt.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do with this after you put your name on it?

Mr. DAY. Captain Fritz took possession of it. I retained possession of the rifle.

Mr. BELIN. Did you process this live round at all for prints?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I did. I did not find any prints.

Mr. McCLOY. Before Captain Fritz ejected the live cartridge, did you dust the rifle for fingerprints?

Mr. DAY. Not before.

Mr. BELIN. Did you dust the bolt for fingerprints?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Before the live round was ejected?

Mr. DAY. No, no; the only part that Captain Fritz touched was the round nob. I looked at it through a glass and decided there was not a print there, and it would be safe for him to open the bolt.

Mr. BELIN. You did this before it was ejected, before the live round was ejected?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Who held the rifle while you looked at it with the glass?

Mr. DAY. I held it.

Mr. BELIN. In one hand?

Mr. DAY. One hand, using the glass with the other.

Mr. BELIN. How did you try to process the live round for prints?

Mr. DAY. With black fingerprint powder.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this in an effort, perhaps, to save time. In all of your processing of prints did you use anything other than this black powder at the scene that day?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. So whenever you say you processed for prints you used black powder, is that correct?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. When was the rifle as such dusted with fingerprint powder?

Mr. DAY. After ejecting the live round, then I gave my attention to the rifle. I put fingerprint powder on the side of the rifle over the magazine housing. I noticed it was rather rough.

I also noticed there were traces of two prints visible. I told Captain Fritz it was too rough to do there, it should go to the office where I would have better facilities for trying to work with the fingerprints.

Mr. McCLOY. But you could note with your naked eye or with a magnifying glass the remnants of fingerprints on the stock?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I could see traces of ridges, fingerprint ridges, on the side of the housing.

Mr. BELIN. Lieutenant Day, as I understand it, you held the stock of the rifle when Captain Fritz operated the bolt?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now, when you first came over to see the rifle, was it easily visible or not?

Mr. DAY. I beg pardon?

Mr. BELIN. When you first came over to see the rifle, when you were first called there, what is the fact as to whether or not it was easily visible?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; you had to look over the box and down to see it. You could not see it ordinarily walking down the aisle.

Mr. BELIN. Was anything resting on top of it?

Mr. DAY. On top of the gun?

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Do you have any estimate as to how wide or what the width was of that particular area in which the rifle was placed? In other words, the area between the boxes, how much space was there?

Mr. DAY. It was just wide enough to accommodate that rifle and hold it in an upright position.

Mr. BELIN. Was the location at which you found the rifle completely surrounded by boxes or was it kind of like two parallel rows of boxes without boxes at either end of it?

Mr. DAY. There was three or four rows of boxes there.

Mr. BELIN. What I mean is this: If you can visualize a narrow squared "O," was it more like a narrow squared "O" so far as the boxes were concerned, with sort of an island of space in the center or was it more like just two basic rows of boxes with nothing at either end?

Mr. DAY. I don't quite follow you there.

Mr. BELIN. I will restate the question this way.

Mr. DAY. There were four parallel lines of boxes. The second line from the north side was not completely filled. In other words, there was vacant places in this particular line.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 139 and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. DAY. This is the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas Book Store at 411 Elm Street, November 23, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. What date?

Mr. DAY. November 22, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. Does it have any identification mark of yours on it?

Mr. DAY. It has my name "J. C. Day" scratched on the stock.

Mr. BELIN. And on the stock you are pointing to your name which is scratched as you would hold the rifle and rest it on the stock, approximately an inch or so from the bottom of the stock on the sling side of the stock, is that correct?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Do you have any recollection as to what the serial number was of that?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I recorded it at the time, C-2566.

Mr. BELIN. Before you say that----

Mr. DAY. C-2766, excuse me.

Mr. BELIN. Do you have any record of that with you or not?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back to the office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.

Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----

Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.

Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a clover-leaf design."

Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?

Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun.

I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.

Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.

Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'"

Mr. BELIN. Could you tell us what other processing you did with this particular rifle?

Mr. DAY. Beg pardon?

Mr. BELIN. What other processing did you do with this particular rifle?

Mr. DAY. I took it to the office and tried to bring out the two prints I had seen on the side of the gun at the bookstore. They still were rather unclear. Due to the roughness of the metal, I photographed them rather than try to lift them.

I could also see a trace of a print on the side of the barrel that extended under the woodstock. I started to take the woodstock off and noted traces of a palmprint near the firing end of the barrel about 3 inches under the woodstock when I took the woodstock loose.

Mr. BELIN. You mean 3 inches from the small end of the woodstock?

Mr. DAY. Right--yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. From the firing end of the barrel, you mean the muzzle?

Mr. DAY. The muzzle; yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Let me clarify the record. By that you mean you found it on the metal or you mean you found it on the wood?

Mr. DAY. On the metal, after removing the wood.

Mr. BELIN. The wood. You removed the wood, and then underneath the wood is where you found the print?

Mr. DAY. On the bottom side of the barrel which was covered by the wood, I found traces of a palmprint. I dusted these and tried lifting them, the prints, with scotch tape in the usual manner. A faint palmprint came off.

I could still see traces of the print under the barrel and was going to try to use photography to bring off or bring out a better print. About this time I received instructions from the chief's office to go no further with the processing, it was to be released to the FBI for them to complete. I did not process the underside of the barrel under the scopic sight, did not get to this area of the gun.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know what Commission Exhibit No. 637 is?

Mr. DAY. This is the trace of palmprint I lifted off of the barrel of the gun after I had removed the wood.

Mr. BELIN. Does it have your name on it or your handwriting?

Mr. DAY. It has the name "J. C. Day," and also "11/22/63" written on it in my writing off the underside gun barrel near the end of foregrip, C-2766.

Mr. BELIN. When you lift a print is it then harder to make a photograph of that print after it is lifted or doesn't it make any difference?

Mr. DAY. It depends. If it is a fresh print, and by fresh I mean hadn't been there very long and dried, practically all the print will come off and there will be nothing left. If it is an old print, that is pretty well dried, many times you can still see it after the lift. In this case I could still see traces of print on that barrel.

Mr. BELIN. Did you do anything with the other prints or partial prints that you said you thought you saw?

Mr. DAY. I photographed them only. I did not try to lift them.

Mr. BELIN. Do you have those photographs, sir? I will mark the two photographs which you have just produced Commission Exhibits 720 and 721. I will ask you to state what these are.

Mr. DAY. These are prints or pictures, I should say, of the latent--of the traces of prints on the side of the magazine housing of the gun No. C-2766.

Mr. BELIN. Were those prints in such condition as to be identifiable, if you know?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; I could not make positive identification of these prints.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have enough opportunity to work and get these pictures or not?

Mr. DAY. I worked with them, yes. I could not exclude all possibility as to identification. I thought I knew which they were, but I could not positively identify them.

Mr. BELIN. What was your opinion so far as it went as to whose they were?

Mr. DAY. They appeared to be the right middle and right ring finger of Harvey Lee Oswald, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. At the time you had this did you have any comparison fingerprints to make with the actual prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; we had sets in Captain Fritz' office. Oswald was in his custody, we had made palmprints and fingerprints of him.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any other processing that you did with the rifle?

Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. At what time, if you know, did you release the rifle to the FBI?

Mr. DAY. 11:45 p.m. the rifle was released or picked up by them and taken from the office.

Mr. BELIN. Was that on November 22?

Mr. DAY. November 22, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. At what time did these same photographs which are the same as Commission Exhibit 720 and 721 of this print----

Mr. DAY. About 8 o'clock, somewhere around 8 o'clock, in that neighborhood.

Mr. BELIN. Of what date?

Mr. DAY. November 22, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. What about the lift which has previously been marked as Commission Exhibit 637?

Mr. DAY. About what?

Mr. BELIN. When did you turn that over to the FBI?

Mr. DAY. I released that to them on November 26, 1963. I did not release this----

Mr. BELIN. You are referring now----

Mr. DAY. On November 22.

Mr. BELIN. You are referring to Commission Exhibit 637?

Mr. DAY. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular reason why this was not released on the 22d?

Mr. DAY. The gun was being sent in to them for process of prints. Actually I thought the print on the gun was their best bet, still remained on there, and, too, there was another print, I thought possibly under the wood part up near the trigger housing.

Mr. BELIN. You mean the remaining traces of the powder you had when you got the lift, Exhibit 637, is that what you mean by the lift of the remaining print on the gun?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir. Actually it was dried ridges on there. There were traces of ridges still on the gun barrel.

Mr. BELIN. Can you tell the circumstances under which you sent Exhibit 637 to the FBI?

Mr. DAY. We released certain evidence to the FBI, including the gun, on November 22. It was returned to us on November 24. Then on November 26 we received instructions to send back to the FBI everything that we had.

Mr. BELIN. Did you do that?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; and at that time I sent the lift marked----

Mr. BELIN. 637.

Mr. DAY. Yes. The gun was sent back again, and all of the other evidence that I had, including cartons from Texas Bookstore, and various other items, a rather lengthy list.

Mr. BELIN. Had the FBI in the interim returned the gun to you then after you sent it to them on November 22?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When the rifle was photographed, as I understand it, you were the one who lifted it out of there, is that correct?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Was it wedged in very tight or could you readily lift it up without moving any boxes?

Mr. DAY. It came out without moving any boxes. It wasn't wedged in.

Mr. McCLOY. Am I to understand your testimony, Lieutenant, about the fingerprints to be you said you were positive--you couldn't make a positive identification, but it was your opinion that these were the fingerprints of Lee Oswald?

Mr. DAY. Well, actually in fingerprinting it either is or is not the man. So I wouldn't say those were his prints. They appeared similar to these two, certainly bore further investigation to see if I could bring them out better. But from what I had I could not make a positive identification as being his prints.

Mr. McCLOY. How about the palmprint?

Mr. DAY. The palmprint again that I lifted appeared to be his right palm, but I didn't get to work enough on that to fully satisfy myself it was his palm. With a little more work I would have come up with the identification there.

Mr. BELIN. Lieutenant Day, what is the fact as to whether or not palmprints are a sound means of identification of an individual?

Mr. DAY. You have the same characteristics of the palms that you do the fingers, also on the soles of feet. They are just as good for identification purposes.

Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else you did in connection with the rifle, the cartridges, the live cartridge, or the taking of prints from any of these metallic objects that you haven't talked about yet?

Mr. DAY. No, sir; I believe that is the extent of the prints on any of those articles.

Mr. BELIN. Did you make a positive identification of any palmprint or fingerprint?

Mr. DAY. Not off the rifle or slug at that time.

Mr, BELIN. At any other time did you off the rifle or the slugs?

Mr. DAY. After I have been looking at that thing again here today, that is his right palm. But at that time I had not no----

Mr. BELIN. When you are saying you looked at that thing today, to what are you referring?

Mr. DAY. Your No. 637 is the right palm of Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Handing you what has been marked "Exhibit 629" I ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. DAY. That is the right palm of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know where this print was taken?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; it was taken by Detective J. B. Hicks in Captain Fritz' office on November 22, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. Did you take more than one right palmprint on that day, if you know?

Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; we took two, actually we took three. Two of them were taken in Captain Fritz' office, and one set which I witnessed taking myself in the identification bureau.

Mr. BELIN. Any particular reason why you took more than one?

Mr. DAY. In most cases, when making comparisons, we will take at least two to insure we have a good clear print of the entire palm.

Mr. BELIN. Now, based----

Mr. DAY. One might be smeared where the other would not.

Mr. BELIN. Based on your experience, I will ask you now for a definitive statement as to whether or not you can positively identify the print shown on Commission Exhibit 637 as being from the right palm of Lee Harvey Oswald as shown on Commission Exhibit 629?

Mr. DAY. Maybe I shouldn't absolutely make a positive statement without further checking that. I think it is his, but I would have to sit down and take two glasses to make an additional comparison before I would say absolutely, excluding all possibility, it is. I think it is, but I would have to do some more work on that.

Mr. BELIN. Could you do that here in Washington before you go back, sir, or would this necessitate going back to Dallas?

Mr. DAY. If I had the proper equipment I think I could do it here. I don't have very good equipment for making comparisons here. I need two fingerprint glasses.

It was my understanding the prints had been identified by the FBI. I don't have official word on it.