Chapter IV: Part 4

Mr. DULLES. Between the inked palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald and this palmprint taken from this cardboard carton?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. What is this white line that goes up through each?

Mr. LATONA. This is a crease in the center of the palm, a flexure crease of that area.

Mr. DULLES. The palm did not touch the carton at that point?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. And those two creases are in approximately the same location in the photograph and in the latent palmprint?

Mr. LATONA. Very definitely.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, I now hand you two further cartons, which are labeled Box B and Box C, the B box being a 10 Rolling Reader, and the C box being also a Scott, Foresman box with printing on the back, "The Three Pre-primers," apparently the name of the book contained in this box.

Mr. DULLES. Primers.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you examine Box B, which I have handed to you, to determine whether it had on it any identifiable latent fingerprints?

Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like that box admitted as 653.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(Commission Exhibit No. 653 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. How many identifiable prints did you find on this carton?

Mr. LATONA. There were seven fingerprints and two palmprints developed on Commission Exhibit 653.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is, identifiable prints?

Mr. LATONA. Identifiable prints.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify any of those prints as belonging to a specific person?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have 654 marked, Box C, Mr. Chairman? Did you also examine Box C?

Mr. LATONA. Box C, yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 654?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit 654.

(Commission Exhibit No. 654 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you find any latent identifiable prints on 654?

Mr. LATONA. I found two fingerprints and one palmprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify them as belonging to a specific individual?

Mr. LATONA. I did not identify them.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, did you attempt to identify them with Lee Harvey Oswald's known prints?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; and they are not Lee Harvey Oswald's prints.

Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive cartons 653 and 654?

Mr. LATONA. I received cartons 653 and 654 November 27.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is, with the earlier cartons, Boxes A and D, which have received Commission exhibit numbers?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Had they been processed? Could you tell whether they had been processed for latent fingerprints?

Mr. LATONA. I couldn't tell whether they had been or not.

Mr. EISENBERG. You could not tell?

Mr. LATONA. Could not tell. They had the appearance of not having been processed.

Mr. EISENBERG. How did you process them in your laboratory, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Iodine fumes and chemicals.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did the prints react to the iodine fumes at all?

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just to the chemicals?

Mr. LATONA. The silver nitrate prints which were developed.

Mr. DULLES. Do you mean that the prints were of such a caliber and character that you couldn't make anything out of them, or that you couldn't identify them with any known----

Mr. LATONA. They are not identical with those that they have been compared with.

Mr. DULLES. But the prints themselves were perfectly good prints?

Mr. LATONA. Oh, yes; the prints are good but they are not Lee Harvey Oswald's.

Mr. EISENBERG. At any subsequent time have you attempted to identify any of these prints on the boxes as belonging to any person other than Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And how did you proceed with this attempt?

Mr. LATONA. An effort was made to locate the fingerprints of all people employed in that building in which these cartons were found, on the basis of the names and birth dates which were furnished, and we located the fingerprints of 16 of those people who work in that building.

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes?

Mr. LATONA. And the fingerprints of those 16 employees were compared with all of the latent prints which were developed on these boxes. They do not belong to any of those 16 people.

Mr. DULLES. May I ask for my information here, Mr. Eisenberg, were all of these cartons, including the last two admitted in evidence, were they found in the general area of the sixth floor of the building from which it is believed the shot was fired?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; Mr. Chairman. I believe that the two boxes which were just admitted into evidence as 653 and 654 were two of the three boxes which were apparently used as a rest by the assassin. They were apparently either the two bottom boxes, or there might have been an arrangement such as that one was stacked on top of the other, and the box earlier admitted into evidence was some evidence of that.

Mr. DULLES. And in any event, does our evidence indicate that these boxes were moved from their normal position on the sixth floor to a new position near the window?

Mr. EISENBERG. Again I believe it does indicate that at least the 10 Rolling Reader carton was moved. There was some other movement of boxes that morning, and I think they are still in the process of tracing down all of the movements.

Mr. DULLES. Thank you.

Mr. EISENBERG. I have a letter, Mr. Latona, from Mr. Hoover to Mr. Rankin, the general counsel of our Commission, setting forth the names of the employees of the TSBD whose prints were compared in this recent attempt you mentioned. Would you recognize the names?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I would because I believe that report is based on my report.

Mr. EISENBERG. If I read the name could you verify whether these individuals were the ones whose prints you checked out against the latents?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Haddon Spurgeon Aiken?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Jack Charles Cason?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Warren Cason?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Jack Edwin Doughterty?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Charles Douglas Givens?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mary Madeline Hollis?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. James Earl Jarman?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Spaulden Earnest Jones?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Herbert L. Junker?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Billy Nolan Lovelady?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Joe R. Molina?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Edward Shields?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Joyce Maurine Stansberg?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Roy Sansom Truly?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Lloyd R. Viles?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Troy Eugene West?

Mr. LATONA. Correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now as I understand it, these employees were not selected because any particular suspicion fell on them, but merely because of all the employees, those were the ones whose cards you knew you had in your files?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. And it was just accidental----

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. That those employees were picked?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. There is no inference that there was any suspicion whatsoever attaching to any of these employees?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. We believe all these employees had access to the sixth floor of the building?

Mr. EISENBERG. We are still looking into that question. This is a recent effort on your part?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. Is that letter to be admitted as evidence or not?

Mr. EISENBERG. I think not----

Mr. DULLES. Right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Since I don't think the witness could identify the actual letter.

Mr. DULLES. It will be in the files, though?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; it is a Commission document in the files.

Mr. Latona, I believe that out of the total number of six prints you have identified today as being Lee Harvey Oswald's, four were palmprints, is that correct?

Mr. LATONA. Three.

Mr. EISENBERG. Three?

Mr. LATONA. Three, two rights and one left, three palms and three fingers.

Mr. EISENBERG. There was a palm on----

Mr. LATONA. The bag.

Mr. EISENBERG. A palm on the weapon?

Mr. LATONA. One on the gun and on this box.

Mr. EISENBERG. Four and two then?

Mr. LATONA. Three.

Mr. EISENBERG. There was a palm on each box?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is two palms?

Mr. LATONA. One off the gun.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is three palms, and the palm on the wrapping paper bag. Here is the wrapping paper bag.

Mr. LATONA. One palm and one finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is four palms all together?

Mr. LATONA. Four palms, okay.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that correct?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, is the proportion of recovered fingerprints here an unusual one in your estimation? That is, we usually hear about fingerprints rather than palmprints, whereas here we have four palm and two finger prints. Is there anything unusual in this?

Mr. LATONA. Well, in that manner there is because--well no, I guess not. It is just as logical to assume that a person will leave a palmprint as a fingerprint. It depends upon primarily the way he handles it. Objects of this type being so large you can probably expect to get a palmprint.

Mr. DULLES. And what he is handling?

Mr. LATONA. That is right. On the other hand, if the object is small there is probably no reason for the palm to touch it. For example, in a rearview mirror; ordinarily on a rearview mirror of these stolen cars we process you get mostly fingerprints.

On the other hand if you get back into the trunk, the chances of something of a large nature, a stolen wheel, or something of that type, you will get finger and palm prints. Cartons like this, where you have to use both hands to pick it up because of its weight, the probability is that you will get a palmprint as well as a fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would the same thing be true of a heavy rifle?

Mr. LATONA. Sure, very definitely.

Mr. EISENBERG. And if the bag contained a heavy object inside?

Mr. LATONA. That is right, it would take more than just the finger area of the hand to hold on to it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you prepare at my request a series of photographs for transmission by me to the New York City Police Department--photographs of finger and palm prints found on some of the evidence we have been looking at?

Mr. LATONA. I furnished you photographs of all of the remaining unidentified latent prints from these cartons.

Mr. EISENBERG. And also did you furnish me a photograph--just of the remaining unidentified prints?

Mr. LATONA. No; including the ones which I identified.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you also furnish me with a photograph of the two prints you identified--which parenthetically were the only two identifiable prints--on the brown wrapping paper bag?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which is Exhibit 142. And of the lift from the weapon 139?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And you also furnished me with photographs of the finger and palmprints of Lee Harvey Oswald----

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. As transmitted to you by the Dallas office of the FBI?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify these as the photographs you furnished to me?

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you identified the envelope marked "two photos Box D"?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that admitted as 655?

Mr. DULLES. Yes.

(Commission Exhibit No. 655 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. DULLES. I think there ought to be some cross-identification inside the envelope. Because obviously if you take that envelope and put anything in it, we ought to have the others identified properly.

Mr. EISENBERG. There are two photographs within this. Let the record show there are two photographs within this envelope, marked "7" and "13," and I believe these are the only photographs so marked. Each photograph is marked with an individual number, so these are the only two photographs in the entire set marked "7" and "13."

Mr. DULLES. Excellent.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now I have an envelope marked "10 photos Box A." Have you identified these photographs Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these photographs admitted as group 656?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be.

(Commission Exhibit No. 656 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in that?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are 10 enclosures and numbered as follows: 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 34, 35.

Mr. DULLES. There is no 33?

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit----

Mr. EISENBERG. 656.

Mr. DULLES. That is 656 with the enclosures as noted and identified.

Mr. EISENBERG. I have here photographs--an envelope--labeled "Photographs, Fingerprints, and Palmprints, Lee Harvey Oswald." These are accurate reproductions?

Mr. LATONA. They are.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will later put subnumbers on these.

Mr. DULLES. Seven numbers with seven enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; three enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. With three enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. And I will number the 10-print card--first may I have the envelope with the photographs admitted as 657?

Mr. DULLES. The envelope shall be admitted with----

Mr. EISENBERG. I will subnumber the cards with your permission at a later time.

Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in it, three?

Mr. EISENBERG. Three. I will subnumber the 10-print card 657-A, the right palm 657-B, and left palm 657-C.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(Commission Exhibits Nos. 657-A, 657-B, and 657-C were marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. I have an envelope with photos marked "one photo of lift 'underside of gun barrel.'" Is this a photograph which you provided me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 658, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. 658 with how many enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. Just one.

Mr. DULLES. Just one enclosure.

(Commission Exhibit No. 658 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, an envelope marked "two photos brown bag (wrapping paper)."

This is the two photos, Mr. Latona, which you gave to me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 659, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as 659 with one enclosure in the envelope. Is it one or two?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are two enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. With two in the envelope.

Mr. EISENBERG. One has printing on it and with your permission I will mark that "659-A," and the other has no printing and I will mark it "659-B."

Mr. DULLES. It will be so admitted.

(Commission Exhibits Nos. 659-A and 659-B were marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Now an envelope marked "eight photos Box B." This is, Mr. Latona, the photographs you provided me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as Exhibit 660, Mr. Chairman, collectively?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit No. 660 with----

Mr. EISENBERG. With eight enclosures----

Mr. DULLES. Eight enclosures.

Mr. EISENBERG. Marked "15"--the next one has 17 scratched out and also 18 appearing on it--19 for the third enclosure, 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24.

Mr. DULLES. With the numbers as indicated in the record.

(Commission Exhibit No. 660 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. And finally an envelope of the same size, marked "three photos, Box C." Mr. Latona, these are the photos you gave me?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; they are.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these admitted as 661, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted as Exhibit 661, with how many enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are three enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. And the three enclosures; are they identified in any way?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir; they are subnumbered 10, 11 and 12.

Mr. DULLES. With the subnumbers 10, 11 and 12.

(Commission Exhibit No. 661 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Are all these photographs accurate reproductions of the prints appearing on the objects whose name is on the front of the envelope in which the photographs are stored?

Mr. LATONA. They are.

Mr. EISENBERG. They were taken by you or under your supervision?

Mr. LATONA. They were.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify by number, Mr. Latona, the photographs of box A which contain prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. I will have to do it in a negative fashion and tell you that it is not 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, or 35.

Mr. EISENBERG. Then it would be No. 25 which is in that sequence?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you mention 34?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. So 34 would also be an identified print in that sequence?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you print anything on the back of these photographs, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. At the time I gave you the photographs I marked nothing on them.

Mr. EISENBERG. So that any printing here would have been put on subsequent to the time you prepared them?

Mr. LATONA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Referring specifically to a photograph I take at random, which is No. 35, is this your handwriting?

Mr. LATONA. It is not.

Mr. EISENBERG. None of the printing appearing on the back of that photograph?

Mr. LATONA. It is not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record state that, as will be dealt with later, this printing was put on by Mr. Mandella of the New York Police Department. Now in the case of box D, of which there are two photographs, 7 and 13, could you state which was the photograph of Oswald's print?

Mr. LATONA. Thirteen.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just to reiterate, in no case did you put writing on the back of these photographs?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did anyone else in the FBI examine the objects which you have been discussing today----

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. To determine whether the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald appeared on them?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was that person's name?

Mr. LATONA. His name is Ronald G. Wittmus.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was his examination conducted independently of yours?

Mr. LATONA. It was.

Mr. EISENBERG. Who conducted the examination first?

Mr. LATONA. In the case of the wrapping paper, I did. In the case of the boxes I believe he did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the rifle?

Mr. LATONA. I conducted the examination of the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. The lift from the rifle?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; directly.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the----

Mr. LATONA. Brown wrapping paper.

Mr. EISENBERG. In any case when you conducted your examination first did you tell Wittmus of your conclusions?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. When Mr. Wittmus conducted his examination first did he tell you of his conclusions?

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were his conclusions the same as yours?

Mr. LATONA. Ultimately, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. When you say, "ultimately"?

Mr. LATONA. When the whole thing was completed.

Mr. DULLES. There was no difference of views between you at any stage?

Mr. LATONA. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did anyone who examined these various objects--as to which you have testified--in the FBI laboratory come to a conclusion different from the one you did?

Mr. LATONA. They did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were there any identifications of fingerprints as being Lee Harvey Oswald's in addition to the ones which you have given us?

Mr. LATONA. There were a number of identifications effected with latent prints developed on personal effects.

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; on the material you have testified as to today.

Mr. LATONA. No; there were no others.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were any prints found--were the three fragmentary prints found on the rifle, which were not sufficient for purposes of identification, in any way inconsistent with the prints of Oswald which you found?

Mr. LATONA. Very definitely, no. I might point out that actually what was visible was consistent, in the sense that even though there were no ridge formations available for purposes of making a positive conclusion, the indications were that the pattern types were there, were consistent with the pattern types which were on the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. DULLES. As far as you know the conclusions of the Texas police authorities who examined these objects, were your conclusions the same as theirs, or was there any differences between you on this subject?

Mr. LATONA. Frankly, I don't know what there conclusion was.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

Mr. DULLES. Have you any questions, Mr. Murray?

Mr. MURRAY. I have not.

Mr. DULLES. I have no further questions. Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Latona. You have been very helpful. I have learned a great deal myself.

Mr. LATONA. Thank you very much.

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR MANDELLA, ACCOMPANIED BY LT. JOSEPH A. MOONEY, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUREAU OF CRIMINAL IDENTIFICATION

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Mandella, will you raise your right hand.

Do you swear that the testimony you give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MANDELLA. I do.

Mr. DULLES. Thank you.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, could you give us your full name and position?

Mr. MANDELLA. Arthur Mandella. I am a detective on the New York Police Department and I work at the bureau of criminal identification in that department.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you briefly outline your qualifications as a fingerprint identification expert, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. In 1945 to 1948 I was a fingerprint technician in the U.S. Navy. My principal duties were the classification and filing of fingerprints, the developing and photographing of latent fingerprints found at crime scenes, the comparison of latent fingerprints with suspects, and the searching of fingerprint files in general.

From 1948 to 1953 I was employed by the U.S. Government as a criminal investigator. However, my principal duties were the lifting and developing and identification of latent fingerprints, also the preparation of fingerprint exhibits for court presentation. From 1955 to the present I have been employed by the New York Police Department and assigned to the bureau of criminal identification as a fingerprint technician and performing the same duties that I just outlined. During these past 17 years I have been examining not only fingerprints but palmprints and infant footprints as well.

I graduated from the following fingerprint schools: in 1945, the U.S. Naval Air Station; in 1948 I graduated from the Institute of Applied Sciences, which is a fingerprint school, fingerprint and identification school; in 1955 I graduated from the New York Police Fingerprint School at the police academy; and in 1958 I attended an advanced latent fingerprint course conducted by the FBI at the New York Police Academy.

I am a fingerprint instructor for the New York Police Department Bureau of Criminal Identification and lecture at various hospitals relative to the proper techniques involved in footprinting the newborn.

I am a qualified fingerprint expert and have testified in New York State and Federal courts, including court-martials, relative to all phases of fingerprints, palmprints, and footprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you venture a guess as to how many identifications you have been called upon to make in the course of your work?

Mr. MANDELLA. General identifications, I suppose, it runs into many thousands. It is hard to pick a number. But it is certainly well into the thousands of examinations.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may this witness be permitted to testify as an expert witness on the subject of fingerprints?

Mr. DULLES. Yes; he may.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, did you at my request examine certain photographs of latent prints and compare them with photographs of inked or known prints to determine whether there were identities between the known and latent prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. I hand you Commission Exhibits 656, 658, 659, 655, 657, 661, and 660. Could you briefly look through these and determine whether these are the photographs which you examined? As you finish an item, could you take a look at the Commission number and verify that you looked at the photographs in that Commission envelope?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I have examined the photographs contained in Commission Exhibit No. 656.

Mr. DULLES. I wonder if you would just state the number, in each case, in each envelope?

Mr. MANDELLA. In Commission Exhibit 656 there are 10 photos, 10 photographs. And I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 658, which is one photograph. I also examined Commission Exhibit No. 659, which is two photographs. I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 655, which is two photographs. I have examined Commission Exhibit No. 661, which contains three photographs. I have examined Commission Exhibit No. 660, which contains eight photographs. I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 657, which contains three photographs.

Mr. EISENBERG. 657 contains photographs of inked prints, is that correct?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. The standard 10-finger chart and a right and left palmprint?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which you have been informed by me and you see on the writing on these charts are the prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any other knowledge that these are the prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; none whatsoever.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the remaining prints are photographs of what you would call latent prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; they are.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make markings on the backs of these prints, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; on quite a few of them I did. However, not all of them.

Mr. EISENBERG. And you made those markings on the basis of--in your own hand printing?

Mr. MANDELLA. My own hand printing, for certain observations I wanted recorded.

Mr. DULLES. What is the nature of the marking?

Mr. EISENBERG. Let's take a sample. I will pull one out at random from Commission Exhibit 660. The topmost card says "Box B," which corresponds to the label or the envelope 660--and that is No. 17.

Mr. DULLES. Will you show those to the witness and see if he identifies his own writing?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I have made these notations. Yes; I do recognize these.

Mr. EISENBERG. The next one says "Box B" and "Negative--same as box 'D' No. 7."

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You have seen these as you flipped through to identify that these are the same photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that these photographs are photographs of latent prints taken by or under the supervision of Mr. Sebastian Latona, and he has just testified that these photographs were taken of objects which were identified earlier in Commission proceedings. Mr. Latona transmitted these photographs to me directly, and I in turn transmitted them to Mr. Mandella and Mr. Mooney, who is also present in this hearing room.

Mr. Mandella, do you know what total number of identifiable latent prints were contained in these exhibits that you just identified--exclusive of 657, which contained the inked or known finger and palm prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; but I have this outline here.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just approximately would you say how many identifiable prints there were?

Mr. MANDELLA. Thirty.

Mr. EISENBERG. Some 30 odd prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Some 30.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you identify certain of those prints as being the finger or palm prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you tell us which of those prints you so identified?

Mr. MANDELLA. There was a photograph, a photograph of the underside of the gun barrel, Commission Exhibit No.----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Commission Exhibit No. 658, and I will hand you that photograph now. You are referring to this photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And can you read the writing on the back of that?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Right palm Oswald underside gun barrel."

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that in your handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is in my handwriting.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you determine what portion of the right palm that was, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is the right side of the right palm, this area right here.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the ulnar portion?

Mr. MANDELLA. Pardon?

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that sometimes called the ulnar portion?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; the ulnar side, or the small-bone side; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make any other identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you give the next one, please?

Mr. MANDELLA. The photo marked "brown bag wrapping paper" Exhibit No.----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Exhibit 659, and that exhibit contains two photographs which I now hand you, which are marked 659-A and 659-B?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you identify the prints in those photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; on photograph No. 1----

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you refer to the print on the back, 659-A or B?

Mr. MANDELLA. On 659-B, as I called it, photo 1, is the No. 7 finger which is the left index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. And do you have a note on the back of that picture?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I do.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you read us that?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Left index, Oswald brown bag wrapping paper."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is in your handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you say what portion of the left index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald that is?

Mr. MANDELLA. It is the bulb of the finger, a little to the right.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is, by bulb you mean the central portion of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. The central portion to the right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; the flesh joint; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And 659-A?

Mr. MANDELLA. Commission Exhibit No. 659, as I call it, photo No. 2, is a palmprint and I identified this as the right side of the right palm of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. The right side would again be the ulnar?

Mr. MANDELLA. It would be the ulnar side, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. The little finger side?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. That also has writing on the back of it, does it?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it does.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you read that to us?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Right palm, Oswald brown bag wrapping paper."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is in your own handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was there any handwriting when you got any of these prints, by the way?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; there wasn't.

Mr. EISENBERG. All the prints were blank on the reverse side?

Mr. MANDELLA. They were blank on the reverse side. There was handwriting within the photographs but not----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is on the face of the photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you proceed, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Box A, photo No. 25.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Commission Exhibit 656, and I will hand you photo No. 25.

Mr. MANDELLA. What was that number, 656? Numbers 25 and 34.

Mr. EISENBERG. I now hand you Nos. 25 and 34. Could you identify No. 25 first Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. No. 25, Commission Exhibit No. 656, contains three identifiable fingerprints, one of which, located in the center in a whorl-type pattern, is the No. 2 finger or the right index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald. The fingerprints on the right and the left do not belong to Lee Harvey Oswald but the one in the center, the whorl-type pattern, is his No. 2 finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which is that now again, the right-hand index finger?

Mr. MANDELLA. The No. 2 finger, which is the right index finger, and again the first joint, the bulb of the finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. The bulb of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Of the right index finger?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. For clarity, where were these taken? What were these taken from?

Mr. EISENBERG. This was taken from box A----

Mr. DULLES. Box A?

Mr. EISENBERG. Which I believe is a 10 rolling reader carton. Is there printing or handwriting on the back of that photograph 25?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; there is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you read it to us?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Center impression No. 2 finger Oswald from Box A photo--latent on left unidentified--Photo Nos. 25 and 27 identical--Negative with Oswald unidentified."

Mr. EISENBERG. "Negative with Oswald," are you referring now to two of the three photographs--two of the three prints appearing on the photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right, two prints, exactly, the one in the center, of course I am not in reference to the one in the center, which is his. The two on the right and left are unidentified.

Mr. EISENBERG. And No. 34, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. No. 34, Commission Exhibit 656, is a palmprint from the left palm of Lee Harvey Oswald, the left palm section of course, the ulnar side again of the left side of the left palm.

Mr. EISENBERG. And do you have a note on the back of that?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I do. "Oswald's left palm--left side."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that again is in your own handwriting, is it Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Any other identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; there is one more on box D, photo No. 13.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Exhibit 655, which contains two photographs, and I will extract the photograph labeled "13."

Mr. MANDELLA. Commission Exhibit 655, photo No. 13, the right palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald. The section here is at the heel of the palm in the center.

Mr. EISENBERG. In the center of the palm?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. You were just pointing to the lower portion of the palm, which you refer to as the heel?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; this is the portion of Oswald's palm.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is there handwriting or printing on the back of that photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; there is. "Right palm--Oswald--heel of hand."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is your handwriting, is it, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. So you made a total of six identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now when you made these identifications--or, I should say, when you received the photographs and when you made the identifications, did you have any knowledge of any kind as to how many, if any, prints of Oswald's were found among the many impressions which were given to you?

Mr. MANDELLA. I had no idea, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were you aware in any way of the conclusions of any other body concerning these impressions?

Mr. MANDELLA. I knew nothing about any examination by anyone.

Mr. EISENBERG. At an unofficial level, had you seen anything in the newspapers which would indicate any information on these?

Mr. MANDELLA. In the newspaper several months ago there was reference to a--I don't even recall whether it was fingerprints or palmprints or both but there was some reference in the newspaper I had seen, and that is all.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is all you recall about it?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is all I recall.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you pay any attention to that in making your identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; it didn't affect me at all, nothing to do with the identifications.

Mr. EISENBERG. What is your general attitude toward items you see like this in the newspapers, by the way?

Mr. MANDELLA. In the newspapers? It doesn't mean a thing. Attitude relative to fingerprints?

Mr. EISENBERG. I am trying to determine how far this might influence you in your evaluation, and I wonder as a police officer what your opinion is when you read accounts in newspapers of evidence in crimes.

Mr. MANDELLA. No; it doesn't affect me other than for general information purposes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did I transmit to you any information whatsoever concerning these prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. You did not, other than giving me the photographs.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did I tell you that any of these prints might be Lee Harvey Oswald's?

Mr. MANDELLA. You made no indication as to that it could have been his.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you know now, apart from your own identification, have you acquired any information at this point, subsequent to your identification but prior to your appearance here, as to these prints, other than your own identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. I have no knowledge as to what has been done with these prints at all by anyone.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you absolutely sure as to each of these identifications, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. I am positive.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, are you familiar with the contention of some persons that 12 points are needed for identification of finger or palm prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. No I am not, no. Positive identifications are effected by the expert himself; 12 points are not necessary. A sufficient amount determined by the expert is the important factor.

Mr. DULLES. About how many? Have you any test as to how many points?

Mr. MANDELLA. I can't give a definite number, but I'd say in generalities five or six or seven points certainly should be enough, depending on their uniqueness and frequency.

Mr. EISENBERG. What is the lowest number to which you have testified in court, Mr. Mandella.

Mr. MANDELLA. The lowest that I can recall I testified to, five points.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was there a conviction secured in that case?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; there was. Of course, I don't recall if the fingerprint was the thing that caused the conviction, but it was part of the testimony.

Mr. DULLES. In most of these cases where you have made an identification, have there been more than five points of identity?

Mr. MANDELLA. Well, it seems to run between, somewhere between 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11, and in some cases more. It depends on how much of the finger or palm that you have, how many characteristics are contained in that area.

Mr. DULLES. My question was directed to the specific prints that you have, photographs of prints that you have examined.

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it usually verges on 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12.

Mr. DULLES. In the cases of these identifications that you have made?

Mr. MANDELLA. Oh, no. Some--we have many more characteristics in some of these identifications here today.

Mr. EISENBERG. I think Commissioner Dulles is referring to cases previous to this.

Mr. DULLES. I was referring to both. First I was asking you in general how many do you consider are necessary, and secondly how many did you find in these particular cases that you have examined in the Oswald case?

Mr. MANDELLA. Oh. Would you like me to----

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have that information?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Fine.

Mr. MANDELLA. Of course these characteristics that I point out are the ones that I see and in some cases there is a few more, but these are the ones that are very definite and outstanding.

On the gun barrel, I forget the Commission exhibit number, there was 11 points of identity.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is 658?

Mr. MANDELLA. Commission Exhibit 658. There was 11 points of identity on that particular palmprint.

Mr. DULLES. That is exactly what I wanted.

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; now the brown wrapping paper bag, Commission's Exhibit 659----

Mr. EISENBERG. There is 659-A and B here. The one you have marked "left index Oswald"?

Mr. MANDELLA. Is that A?

Mr. EISENBERG. That is what I have marked "B." That is Commission Exhibit 659-B.

Mr. MANDELLA. Then No. 2, 659-A is the palmprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is marked "right palm"?

Mr. MANDELLA. Right palm, and there is 18 points, 18 characteristics that are very outstanding and in this case possibly more too.

Now in Commission's Exhibit 659-B----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is marked "left index Oswald"?

Mr. MANDELLA. It is the left index finger--Lee Harvey Oswald, there is 11 points of identity and possibly a few more. In Commission Exhibit 656 which is the No. 2 finger or the right index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald, there is 11 points, that is the whorl-type pattern.

Mr. EISENBERG. Excuse me a second Mr. Mandella. That is No. 25 center impression, marked by you "center impression No. 2 finger--Oswald," is that correct?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; that is correct. And there is 11 points of identity or characteristic.

Mr. EISENBERG. On No. 34?

Mr. MANDELLA. No. 34, the palmprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is marked by you "Oswald left palm--left side"?

Mr. DULLES. Palmprint on the box is it?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; box A.

Mr. DULLES. Box A?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; 18 points of identity I found on that particular exhibit.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you check your notes on that?

Mr. MANDELLA. I can explain this. On the reverse side I have 13 to 16 points.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the reverse side of number----

Mr. MANDELLA. It is the reverse side of Commission Exhibit 656. However, after going over this and looking at it again I found several more. Of course in this case it is still more than 18. But 18 that can be readily seen and recognized. And then Commission exhibit finally----

Mr. EISENBERG. 655?

Mr. MANDELLA. 655.

Mr. EISENBERG. Box D.

Mr. MANDELLA. Photo No. 13, the right palmprint of Oswald, and there is eight points of identity on that one.

Mr. DULLES. Thank you.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, do you have any opinion concerning the ability to determine the freshness of a fingerprint?

Mr. MANDELLA. It is very difficult to tell. However, you can determine if it was left within say a few days, but certainly you can't pinpoint it. You can't say it was there so many hours or so many days. How many days I don't know, but in the developing of fingerprints we will say on an ashtray on this Commission desk here, if we just touch it now, as opposed to a fingerprint being left there several days ago, the impression that we recently left, as we applied powder to it to bring it about would naturally come out sooner because of the freshness of the oils on our fingers.

The others would come out, if we kept processing or powdering it with a brush. They would later come out too. So this is the only indication to me then, that the first ones that appear then were recently left. And in this you can't even say this definitely either. It is very difficult because at certain times it could be a little more oil on someone's fingers and this could last longer and appear to be fresher. So it is very difficult to tell positively.

Mr. EISENBERG. What you are describing is freshness, relative freshness, between one print and another, rather than absolute freshness of any given print?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; that is true.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now I give you Commission Exhibit No. 139, which is a rifle, and ask you whether you think if you developed a print on a steel portion of the rifle you could testify as to whether this was a fresh or a stale print?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell especially on steel or on wood here whether it is fresh or not. By itself of course too, with nothing around it, you couldn't tell. It is impossible, as a matter of fact.

Mr. EISENBERG. I hand you Commission Exhibit No. 649, which consists of a piece torn off of a cardboard type of box, and appearing on that is a powder impression under a tape, of which you have seen actually a photograph, Mr. Mandella.

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. If you had developed that impression, do you think you would testify as to relative freshness?

Mr. MANDELLA. In this case, with this cardboard, in my own experience--I assume the medium used here is powder----

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; I believe so.

Mr. MANDELLA. To develop it. If it comes out this fresh, I would have to assume that it was left there recently. But how recently I can't pinpoint that.

Mr. EISENBERG. Within 3 days?

Mr. MANDELLA. Oh, definitely I would say within 3 days.

Mr. EISENBERG. Within 2 days?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I would say within about a day, a day and a half, because the cardboard is very porous and it would normally draw the oils, the perspiration, and it would disappear.

However, we do have an impression here with powder. That means that it was quite fresh, in my own opinion anyway.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, I can see that you have taken notes, numerous notes on the fingerprints, including those you didn't identify. I wonder whether we could introduce those as a Commission exhibit, rather than going through those one by one. Would you part with those? We could supply you with a copy later.

Lieutenant MOONEY. I have the rough. It will only take us a couple minutes to----

Mr. DULLES. We would be very glad to give you a photograph copy of it.

Mr. MANDELLA. That is all I need. That is fine. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You are handing me two pages, and these contain your original notes concerning the fingerprints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. These contain your notes not only as to the fingerprints you identified, but those which you did not identify against a known print which you were given?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right. There were quite a few fingerprints that didn't belong to Oswald. However, they belonged to one another.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is to say, you found two prints which were identical to each other?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Two latents which were identical to each other?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right, but to whom they belong I have no idea.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have these notes admitted as Commission Exhibit No. 662?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Exhibit 662.

(Commission Exhibit No. 662 was marked for identification, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, is there anything you would like to add to your testimony here?

Mr. MANDELLA. Nothing other than what I already mentioned.

Mr. EISENBERG. I have no further questions.

Mr. DULLES. We thank you then Mr. Mandella, very much. I didn't catch your name.

Lieutenant MOONEY. Lieutenant Mooney. Glad to have been of service.

Mr. DULLES. Would you please express to the Commissioner on behalf of the Chief Justice and the Commission our grateful thanks to you for the work that you have done, and it is greatly appreciated, and also express on my own personal behalf--I know the Commissioner--my appreciation for the cooperation he has given to the Commission.

Lieutenant MOONEY. Thank you, sir. We are glad to have been of service.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I say that these two gentlemen both interrupted their vacation to come here, and they have been working practically night and day in order to meet with our time demands for testimony.

Mr. DULLES. We deeply appreciate that.

Mr. MANDELLA. Glad to have helped in any way.

Mr. DULLES. The Commission will stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 1:10 p.m., the President's Commission adjourned.)

_Friday, April 3, 1964_

TESTIMONY OF PAUL MORGAN STOMBAUGH AND JAMES C. CADIGAN

The President's Commission met at 9:10 a.m. on April 3, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman and Mr. Allen W. Dulles, member.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel; Melvin Aron Eisenberg, Assistant Counsel; and Charles Murray, Observer.

TESTIMONY OF PAUL MORGAN STOMBAUGH

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will come to order. The purpose of today's hearing is to take the testimony of Paul Stombaugh and James C. Cadigan. Mr. Stombaugh is a hair and fiber expert with the FBI, and Mr. Cadigan is a questioned documents expert with the FBI. They have been asked to provide technical information to assist the Commission in its work.

This is just to advise you of the nature of the interrogation today.

Will you rise: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. You may be seated. Mr. Eisenberg, you may proceed with the examination.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Stombaugh, could you state your full name and your position?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Paul M., for Morgan, Stombaugh. I am a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, assigned to the hair and fiber unit of the FBI laboratory as a hair and fiber examiner.

Mr. EISENBERG. What is your education, Mr. Stombaugh?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Biology from Furman University, Greenville, S.C., and I received a 1-year period of specialized training in the hair and fiber field in the laboratory under the supervision of the other experts.

Mr. EISENBERG. How long have you been in the hair and fiber field?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Since 1960.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you approximate the number of examinations you have made in this field?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. I have made several thousand hair examinations and about twice as many fiber examinations.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you testified in court?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I have testified in approximately 28 States, both federal and local courts, as an expert.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like permission to examine the witness as an expert in this area.

The CHAIRMAN. The witness is qualified.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Stombaugh, I now hand you Commission Exhibit No. 140, which for the record consists of a blanket which was found in the garage of Mr. and Mrs. Paine, and a piece of string marked Paine Exhibit No. 2, and I ask you whether you are familiar with these items?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; I am. My mark is here on the blanket, and when this was received in the FBI laboratory this string was around a portion of it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you tell us what your mark is exactly, Mr. Stombaugh?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Due to the fact this was a piece of fabric and hard to mark, I put a piece of evidence tape on the blanket, stapled it to the blanket, and put my initials "PMS" with the date 11-23-63 thereon.

Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive this blanket, Mr. Stombaugh?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. This was approximately 7:30 a.m., on the morning of November 23, 1963.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe the shape of the blanket and the position of the string, Paine Exhibit 2, when you received it?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. May I use this?

Mr. EISENBERG. What you are holding up is a piece of paper which--will you describe it, please?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. This is a piece of kraft paper approximately the same shape as this blanket. When I received the blanket, it had been folded together with both ends even; a slight triangle had been folded into one corner of the blanket, and another fold had been taken into the blanket thus.

Mr. EISENBERG. When you say "thus," you are folding the piece of kraft paper, and is the paper now folded into approximately--in a manner approximating the way the blanket was folded when you received it?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have permission to introduce the piece of paper which the witness has so folded?

The CHAIRMAN. It may be so admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG. That will be Commission Exhibit 663.

(Commission Exhibit 663 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. There is a safety pin inserted into Exhibit 663, Mr. Stombaugh. Was there an equivalent safety pin on the blanket?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; there was a much larger safety pin attached to the blanket in approximately the same place as the small pin in the piece of paper.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, the blanket is folded so as to approximate approximately a right angle triangle, and the safety pin is at one angle of that triangle opposite the right angle, is that correct?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. The safety pin would be at the vertex of the right angle----

Mr. EISENBERG. Now----

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Of the triangle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were there any distinctive creases in the blanket?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes; there were. There was one crease at the base, which would be the base of the right triangle, a very slight crease.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you mark that with the letter "A" please, on the Exhibit 663?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. This is opposite--this is the side facing the angle at which the safety pin is inserted, is that correct?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. That is correct. It would be the base of the triangle.

Mr. EISENBERG. The base of the triangle----

Mr. STOMBAUGH. There was also another crease I found upon removing the safety pin and opening the blanket; I found that one end of the blanket had been folded in approximately 7 inches.

Mr. EISENBERG. What is the relationship between that and the end which you have just marked "A," is that the opposite side?

Mr. STOMBAUGH. That would be the opposite side of the blanket.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you mark that "B"?

What was the relationship between the amount which the blanket was folded on the side "A" and the amount which it was folded on side "B," that is, were the folds approximately equal, or if different, how different, in length?