Chapter XXIII: Part 23

I don't personally know of it ever having happened, but it might. If he had a score of 210, which would make him sharpshooter, I would assume that from the standing position he could hit a 10-inch bullseye 8 times out of 10.

Mr. ELY. Do you know how the score was recorded? Did the firer of the weapon ever go down personally to inspect the target?

Mr. DONOVAN. Never. That is one of the things that makes this quite difficult. The men are on a firing range, a minimum of 200 yards distance, a maximum of 800 yards distance. When you are put into what is called the butts, or the target area, you do not know whose target you are pulling, because they switch you around every day. A staff NCO or an officer comes around and verifies each given shot. And it is not impossible to cheat, but it would be most difficult to. And I have no reason to suspect that he did.

Mr. ELY. In order that a friend could cheat for you, he would have to know ahead of time which point you were firing on, get to that point, and punch the target before the NCO got there?

Mr. DONOVAN. That is correct. You fired from a given position every day.

For instance, if you fired on target 17 during the week or two of qualification, you always fired on target 17. However, in the target area, where you pulled the targets up and down to repair them, you were switched from spot to spot every day, and it was not a matter of choice. The sergeant just said, "You men take target 1", "target 2," and so on. So it would be most unusual.

But I suppose it does happen.

Mr. ELY. Earlier in your deposition you stated, I believe, that you never heard Oswald wise off to any NCO. When speaking to the FBI, did you characterize him as a wise guy, or is that the agent's characterization?

Mr. DONOVAN. He was a wise guy in the sense that he could be disrespectful in a way that you would accept. He would in a very respectful manner argue with someone and in most cases it was obvious to people listening that he knew more than the person he was arguing with. We had one fellow on our crew, a S. Sgt. Cornelius Brown, and Sergeant Brown is the most competent sergeant in the field of radar that I have ever encountered. Sergeant Brown could barely write. He could read, but again barely read. He could read a newspaper.

But most people like to think they are well informed on all subjects. And it was characteristic of Oswald to bait people, particularly on foreign affairs. He would listen interestedly, ask questions in an interested manner, and then if the person were not too high in rank, could point out a dozen places they didn't know what they were talking about.

Mr. ELY. Do you feel that he ever asked questions about foreign affairs because he truly wanted to know the person's opinion?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; I think his mind was made up. I think he wanted to ask questions to later expose to his comrades that he knew far more than a person in a position of authority. I think he tried to make it evident to his contemporaries that in many cases he was more gifted and more intelligent than people who were in charge of him. And this in itself was ridiculous--according to his way of thinking. I don't think that he ever asked information of anyone on foreign affairs, including me, whose opinion he particularly respected. He had his mind made up and was willing to discuss that point of view with anyone.

Mr. ELY. How did Oswald's fellow enlisted men react to his baiting of NCOs and officers?

Mr. DONOVAN. Well, sometimes, if he tried to humiliate the sergeant in the presence of others, the sergeant has many ways of getting even, and he can make a cleanup detail much more detailed, he can make barracks inspections much more frequently, and I don't think this particularly made his fellow marines enthusiastic about his attitude.

Mr. ELY. Do you think his fellow marines accepted his view that he was brighter than the officers he was talking to?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I think that they accepted the view that he was brighter than most people, and was particularly capable in the field of world affairs. In respect to them, I think he knew more than they did, at least in facts.

I think they admired his ability to pursue Russian on his own and learn it. And I think anyone must admit that this reflects a degree of intelligence.

Mr. ELY. While you and Oswald were in the same unit, was he ever in any trouble of a nature which would require administrative action?

Mr. DONOVAN. Not that I recall.

Mr. ELY. Returning to this date that you had with this airline stewardess, did she tell you anything about Oswald?

Mr. DONOVAN. As I recall, the only thing she said was that he was rather strange. And I do recall that either she or her brother at that time mentioned that he does speak Russian and reads Russian newspapers.

Mr. ELY. Did she say in what way he was strange?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall in what way she said he was strange.

Mr. ELY. Did you get the feeling that she hadn't enjoyed herself when she was with him?

Mr. DONOVAN. I got that impression. But I think that they didn't share any common interest. I think he was truly interested in international affairs, and that is not typical of her or other stewardesses I have known.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall the circumstances under which Oswald left the Marine Corps?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I do.

Mr. ELY. Could you relate them to us, please?

Mr. DONOVAN. I recall that he got a hardship discharge. We offered to get him a flight--that is a hop from El Toro to some place in Texas, his home. He refused. We considered that normal in that if you take a hop you sacrifice your transportation pay. We offered to take him to a bus or train station. He refused. But that is not particularly unusual, either.

I recall that he was gone for some period of time, and shortly before I got out of the Marine Corps, which was mid-December 1959, we received word that he had showed up in Moscow. This necessitated a lot of change of aircraft call signs, codes, radio frequencies, radar frequencies.

He had the access to the location of all bases in the west coast area, all radio frequencies for all squadrons, all tactical call signs, and the relative strength of all squadrons, number and type of aircraft in a squadron, who was the commanding officer, the authentication code of entering and exiting the ADIZ, which stands for Air Defense Identification Zone. He knew the range of our radar. He knew the range of our radio. And he knew the range of the surrounding units' radio and radar.

If you had asked me a month after I left that area, I could not have told you any but our own. Had I wanted to record them, I certainly could have secretly, and taken them with me. Unless he intentionally with malice aforethought wrote them down, I doubt if he would have been able to recall them a month later, either.

Mr. ELY. You recall that various codes were changed. Now, at what level were these changed? Was this an action of your specific unit, or a fairly widespread action?

Mr. DONOVAN. Well, I did not witness the changing in any other squadrons, but it would have to be, because the code is obviously between two or more units. Therefore, the other units had to change it. These codes are a grid, and two lines correspond.

And he gives the grid that you want, and he reads back "AB," or whatever the reply is supposed to be, the authentication is supposed to be.

Mr. ELY. Are authentication codes changed from time to time as a matter of course?

Mr. DONOVAN. They are changed from time to time, that is right.

Mr. ELY. Are they changed even if there is no specific incident which elicits the change?

Mr. DONOVAN. They are methodically changed anyway. There are some things which he knew on which he received instruction that there is no way of changing, such as the MPS 16 height-finder radar gear. That had recently been integrated into the Marine Corps system. It had a height-finding range far in excess of our previous equipment, and it has certain limitations. He had been schooled on those limitations.

It cannot operate above a given altitude in setting--in other words, you cannot place the thing above a given terrain height.

He had also been schooled on a piece of machinery called a TPX-1, which is used to transfer radio--radar and radio signals over a great distance. Radar is very susceptible to homing missiles, and this piece of equipment is used to put your radar antenna several miles away, and relay the information back to your site which you hope is relatively safe. He had been schooled on this.

And that kind of stuff you cannot change.

Mr. ELY. Did Oswald have any kind of clearance?

Mr. DONOVAN. He must have had secret clearance to work in the radar center, because that was a minimum requirement for all of us.

Mr. ELY. Was the spot at which he worked such that in order to gain admittance one would have to show some sort of credentials?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; they checked your card data. Within the center, which is called a counter-air operations center, he rotated through all positions of an enlisted man. At times, as I told you, he served as plotter, sometimes surveillance, sometimes even as crew chief.

Mr. ELY. Were you the one who picked the crew chief?

Mr. DONOVAN. I was in a rather favorable position, since I was the training officer and assistant operations officer, that I had first choice of crew chiefs. I always picked one of two men--either Sgt. Cornelius Brown or Sgt. Eugene Holmburg. I have already told you where Sergeant Brown is.

Sergeant Holmburg is now a commissioned warrant officer and still on active duty in the Marine Corps.

Mr. ELY. Did you ever pick Oswald to act as crew chief?

Mr. DONOVAN. There was occasion when Oswald acted as crew chief. If one of these sergeants had another duty somewhere else, and Oswald was senior man present, he was crew chief. And I had no complaint about his work.

Mr. ELY. Did he show any special ability in this direction?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I think he was competent, very competent. And I think he did his job well. I don't recall anything coming up that he could not handle.

Mr. ELY. In acting as crew chief, do you think he demonstrated leadership qualities?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't think he was a leader.

Mr. ELY. However, is it fair to say that any reservations you have about his ability as a leader were not sufficient to make you decide never to use him as a crew chief again?

Mr. DONOVAN. I would not hesitate to use him as a crew chief.

Mr. ELY. When the other men in the unit found out that Oswald was in the process of getting a hardship discharge, did they make any offers to help, other than the ones you have mentioned concerning transportation?

Mr. DONOVAN. I recall that I offered to help him any way I could, including financially. And you can talk to Sergeant Brown, but I believe that Sergeant Brown helped him, or offered to help him.

Mr. ELY. Did he accept these offers?

Mr. DONOVAN. He did not from me, and to the best of my knowledge he did not from anyone.

Mr. ELY. Did he give a reason for refusing them?

Mr. DONOVAN. He didn't need the help.

Mr. ELY. Did you find out about his attempt to get a hardship discharge through observation of his papers, or did he mention it to you?

Mr. DONOVAN. I have no idea. I don't recall seeing any papers. Just word around the squadron.

Mr. ELY. Would you have any idea of how long in advance of his actual discharge you or others heard about the fact that he was trying to get a discharge?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not recall.

Mr. ELY. Did he ever discuss with you the reasons for the discharge?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall if he ever discussed them or not. I did know that his mother needed help. And, at that time, I recall that I believed he was a sole surviving son. Since that date I have read that he has a brother. At that time, as I recall, I believed him to be an only son, and his mother needed help.

Mr. ELY. Did you observe on the part of Oswald anything that could be termed mental instability?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; except that he had an extreme passion for this field of foreign affairs--or at least in his discussions with me--and they might have been limited to me, I don't know. But it is unusual when anyone is solely interested in one given thing.

Mr. ELY. During discussions of foreign affairs, did he get visibly angry, did he raise his voice?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; he never raised his voice, but he could become passionate in the defense of a point, and become quite enthusiastic in trying to get you to see what he saw.

Mr. ELY. But he always retained physical control of himself, in terms of pounding the table, screaming?

Mr. DONOVAN. Oh, yes; I don't believe he became any more physically worked up than people we talk with every day.

Mr. ELY. Did you observe Oswald to complain about the Marine Corps any more than the average Marine complains about the Marine Corps?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; he stuck in my mind in that respect only because he was particularly opposed to the recognition promotion program. Most guys complain about having to stand so many inspections, having to clean up the barracks so many times, having to go on KP so many times, et cetera.

I don't recall those complaints from him. They may have come. The complaint he had was that the Marine Corps did not recognize his ability to to be in a position of command. I recall that on several instances I encouraged him to pursue this, and put in for NCO leadership school, if he felt he had the qualities, or to go out, get a commission, and come back in, and try to do his best in that way.

Mr. ELY. Do you know whether he ever took an OCS qualification exam?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not recall that he did.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall any interest on Oswald's part in music?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; I do not.

Mr. ELY. Fine. I am going to run down a list of short questions like that, and the answer to many of them may be simply that you don't remember. These are things that have been suggested to us.

Do you recall whether or not he played chess?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I do recall. I have played chess with him some nights. And, as a matter of fact, he was a pretty good chess player. I won the base championship that year in chess. I know that on occasion he beat me. That was not a very big base. But he and I were comparable players. I think I beat him more times than I lost to him.

Mr. ELY. Did he ever have occasion to discuss with you his religious beliefs?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall that he ever expressed any belief in God.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall that he----

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall that he ever expressed any denial of God.

Mr. ELY. Never mentioned the subject at all?

Mr. DONOVAN. If he did, I don't recall it.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall his getting into any fights while he and you were at Santa Ana?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not recall his getting into any fights.

Mr. ELY. I believe you mentioned earlier that he did not seem to you particularly interested in girls.

Was this just because he was interested in other things, or do you have any reason to believe that there was anything abnormal about his desires?

Mr. DONOVAN. I have no reason to suspect that he was homosexual, and in that squadron at that time one fellow was discharged from the service for being homosexual. He was in no way tied in with it that I know of. His lack of interest in girls may be only my belief, because as an officer I cannot have occasion to know him socially, but in our conversations he never was particularly interested in talking about them.

Mr. ELY. Do you know whether he smoked?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall.

Mr. ELY. Would you say that he had a good sense of humor?

Mr. DONOVAN. If my sense of humor is good, he did not.

Mr. ELY. Did he attempt to be funny?

Mr. DONOVAN. He attempted it at times.

Mr. ELY. And, in your opinion, failed?

Mr. DONOVAN. And in my opinion he was a failure in that respect.

Mr. ELY. You have mentioned that he read a Russian newspaper. Do you remember any other possessions or habits or affectations which would suggest an interest in the Soviet Union?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, I do not.

However, I do recall that in college we had some monumentally boring textbooks to read concerning GATT, et cetera--at least at the time they were monumentally boring. And on occasion he would bring up one of these books--I don't recall which one--but say, "Are you familiar with this?" And it was my good fortune to have studied it. And he would ask about something. And in some respects he would ask you about a term he did not know. But he never would ask you about a concept, except in an effort to get you to discuss it or argue it. But he would ask you what some word meant in economics. He was interested in international economics.

Mr. ELY. Could you state for the record what GATT stands for?

Mr. DONOVAN. General Agreement on Trade and Tariff.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall his having any nicknames?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes.

Mr. ELY. What were they?

Mr. DONOVAN. Ozzie.

Mr. ELY. Anything else?

Mr. DONOVAN. Not that I recall.

Mr. ELY. Did most people call him Ozzie?

Mr. DONOVAN. Or Oz.

Mr. ELY. Did you ever know or hear of his being in contact with the Cuban consulate, either in person or by mail?

Mr. DONOVAN. I never heard of that.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember whether----

Mr. DONOVAN. Are you talking about then, or now?

Mr. ELY. I am talking about then, right.

Do you recall whether he made any trips, when he had time off?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I think he took a couple of trips down to Tijuana, but I don't think those were for reasons of studying international economics, although they might well have been.

Mr. ELY. Did he ever tell you what he did in Tijuana?

Mr. DONOVAN. Never, and I never inquired.

Mr. ELY. Do you know whether he took any trips to Los Angeles?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't know it, but I am sure he did, because it was common for all those boys to go in and out of Los Angeles or Hollywood, or up to Disneyland--whether they wanted to go up for a beer or a date or something.

Mr. ELY. Did you notice that he either took more trips than the average marine, or that he took fewer trips?

Mr. DONOVAN. I did not recognize his itinerary as being anything out of the ordinary in that respect.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember his receiving any visitors while he was at Santa Ana?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not recall his receiving any visitors.

Mr. ELY. Does the name Lieutenant Cupenak mean anything to you?

Mr. DONOVAN. Means absolutely nothing to me.

Mr. ELY. Cupenak does not even sound like any name that means anything to you?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, I knew a Lieutenant John Cuaka. C-u-a-k-a. That spelling is strictly phonetic.

Mr. ELY. Was he at Santa Ana at that time?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not believe he was. I knew him in the Philippines and in Japan. He was a radar maintenance officer that generally served with a GCA, standing for Ground Control Approach unit. But Cupenak doesn't ring a bell at all.

Mr. ELY. Finally, Mr. Donovan, I would like to get your opinion on which of the men who were at Santa Ana at the time that both you and Oswald were there would be most helpful to us in reconstructing the personality of Oswald. I will mention the names that I have to you, and see whether you think----

Mr. DONOVAN. You mean which in the plural or singular? You want me to say which would be most----

Mr. ELY. I will read the names to you, and you can comment on them individually.

Do you remember a man named Thornley?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall the name at all.

Mr. ELY. All right.

How about a man named Lewis?

Mr. DONOVAN. Don't recall the name at all.

Mr. ELY. Botelho?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, Botelho was a man in our squadron. I cannot recall his face. But I do recall the man being in our squadron. And he went by the nickname, normally enough, of Bo.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember whether or not he knew Oswald well?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, I do not.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Call?

Mr. DONOVAN. I certainly do. He is from Allentown, Pa. I tried to look him up after my discharge. I was passing through his town. He was a corporal, later sergeant, I believe, buck sergeant.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether he knew Oswald?

Mr. DONOVAN. He must have. Call was another boy I played chess with.

Mr. ELY. Would you characterize Call as an intellectual?

Mr. DONOVAN. I would characterize Call as being modestly intelligent--modestly not referring to his degree of intelligence, but in reference to his character concerning his intelligence.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Delgado?

Mr. DONOVAN. I certainly do--quite well. Delgado was on my crew. He was one of the boys that used to speak with the Mexican ham operators to ask them to leave the air when we were talking to aircraft. And Delgado had a command of Mexican more than Spanish. Delgado was a very dependable boy.

Mr. ELY. Do you think he would be able to help us concerning Oswald?

Mr. DONOVAN. He could tell you much more about Oswald's personal life than I can, because he lived in the same barracks area with him; Delgado played on the football team. He many times served on the same crew with Oswald.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Murray?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, Murray was a clerk. He had a radar specialization number, but we used him as a clerk. And, as I recall, he wanted to go back to medical school. I think he was from the South somewhere, I believe. Very efficient, very intelligent, very competent, capable man.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether he knew Oswald well, or would it be fair to say that all the men on the crew would know him?

Mr. DONOVAN. Well, Murray I don't think you would say was on the crew so much. Murray, because of his administrative ability, worked more in the office. Murray was married. And that puts him in a little different light, too. I think he was very happily married. At the end of the day he went home--whereas Oswald stayed in the barracks area.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Powers?

Mr. DONOVAN. The name rings a bell, but I don't really remember him.

Mr. ELY. Osborne?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether Osborne was an acquaintance of Oswald's?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes. Osborne I knew quite well. He played football with us for some time. He must have known him. I don't know if he actually lived in the same barracks. He knew him. I don't know how well he knew him.

Mr. ELY. Now, you have mentioned Captain Trail to us, and also Sergeant Brown.

Mr. DONOVAN. Captain Trail was Lieutenant Trail when I knew him. I think he is now Captain Trail.

Mr. ELY. Yes. Can you think of any other names that neither you nor I have already mentioned?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; another fellow that I am sure knew him was a fellow named Elmer Ellsworth Randolph. And he is now a salesman for Brock Candy Co., somewhere in the Chicago area.

Another fellow that probably knows him is now on active duty--Fred Walker. He is a captain. I believe Walker knew him.

Captain Block, Robert Block, was the operations officer at that time. I don't know if he would remember Oswald or not.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether Oswald ever went to night clubs? Bars?

Mr. DONOVAN. I think he used to go down to the enlisted men's club to drink beer. I recall going down there one night to talk to some boys on a disturbance and I vaguely remember him being there, but I would not swear to that.

Mr. ELY. Would you have any personal knowledge of whether he attended offpost bars or night clubs?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, I would not.

Mr. ELY. Did he drink more than the average marine, the same amount, less?

Mr. DONOVAN. I believed not. However, after the assassination of President Kennedy, I talked to Lieutenant Trail on the phone and Trail told me that he had been mixed up in some drinking bouts in Japan.

Mr. ELY. But from your own----

Mr. DONOVAN. From my own personal knowledge, I do not know that he drank to excess.

Mr. ELY. But he did drink some?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't ever recall seeing him drink. But as I recall the conversation, I believe he did. But I don't know that for a fact.

Mr. ELY. Well, in that case, Mr. Donovan, I think that is all the questions I have for you.

Do you think of anything else that might be helpful to us in trying to figure out what sort of a man Oswald was?

Mr. DONOVAN. There is one name that you did not mention that I know that lived in the same barracks he did. Cpl. Sherman Cooley. He also served on that crew. I served with Cooley overseas, and in Santa Ana. Cooley is another fellow that was intelligent, but very modest about it.

The reason I remember his first name, it always struck me as strange that someone named Sherman would live in Louisiana.

Another boy's name is Dejanovich. That is phonetic. Dejanovich lived in Chicago, and after I was discharged from the service I called him on the phone a couple of times, passing through there.

Another guy that would know him is a boy named Jurarado, I believe. I don't know how much these boys knew about him. They are just people that were there at the same time.

Mr. ELY. Your mention of Dejanovich reminds me of a question I intended to ask you.

Do you recall any of Oswald's former marines calling him Oswaldovich, or anything that sounded like that?

Mr. DONOVAN. No.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall fellow marines referring to him as "Comrade?"

Mr. DONOVAN. No.

Mr. ELY. Well, if you have nothing more to add, Mr. Donovan, on behalf of the Commission, I would like to thank you for giving us your time and testimony. It has been very helpful.

TESTIMONY OF ALLISON G. FOLSOM, LT. COL., USMC

The testimony of Allison G. Folsom, Lt. Col., USMC, was taken at 1:15 p.m., on May 1, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Mr. John Hart Ely, member of the staff of the President's Commission.

Mr. ELY. Colonel, would you please stand up and be sworn?

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Colonel FOLSOM. I do.

Mr. ELY. My name is John Ely. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.

Staff members have been authorized to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to the Commission by Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.

Under the Commission rules for the taking of testimony, each witness is to be provided with a copy of the Executive order and of the joint resolution and a copy of the rules that the Commission has adopted governing the taking of testimony from witnesses. I have provided you with these documents, is that correct?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is true.

Mr. ELY. Under the Commission's rules for the taking of testimony, each witness is entitled to 3 days' notice before he is required to come in and give testimony.

You did not have 3 days' notice. However, each witness can waive that notice requirement if he wishes, and I assume that your presence here indicates you are willing to waive that notice requirement.

Colonel FOLSOM. It is waived.

Mr. ELY. Would you state your full name, please?

Colonel FOLSOM. Lt. Col. Allison G. Folsom, Jr., U.S. Marine Corps.

Mr. ELY. What is your job in the Marine Corps, sir?

Colonel FOLSOM. My primary duty is head, Records Branch, Personnel Department, Headquarters U.S. Marine Corps, Washington, D.C.

Mr. ELY. How long have you held this position?

Colonel FOLSOM. Approximately 3 years.

Mr. ELY. Could you give us something of an idea of your background--what you did before you entered the Marine Corps?

Colonel FOLSOM. I was a student.

Mr. ELY. And how long have you been in the Marine Corps?

Colonel FOLSOM. I entered active duty in the Marine Corps 5 August 1935.

Mr. ELY. Prior to the assassination of President Kennedy, had you ever heard the name Lee Harvey Oswald?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes.

Mr. ELY. Could you tell us in what connection that was?

Colonel FOLSOM. It was in connection with his record, which was requested by the Discipline Branch of Headquarters, Marine Corps, and they advised me of his renunciation, I would guess, of his citizenship, and the fact that they were trying to effect his discharge.

Mr. ELY. I see. And that is the first time you had ever heard of him?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes, sir.

Mr. ELY. Did you ever meet the man?

Colonel FOLSOM. No.

Mr. ELY. All right. The primary reason that we have called you here, colonel, is not because of any contact which you have had with Oswald, but because of your position. We have here Oswald's Marine records, and we would like you to help us interpret some of the abbreviations, test scores and things like that.

Let me show you this document, which we will mark Folsom Deposition Exhibit No. 1, and ask you if you can tell us what it is.

(The document referred to was marked Folsom Deposition Exhibit No. 1 for identification.)

Colonel FOLSOM. It represents a photostatic copy of the official record held by the Marine Corps of Lee Harvey Oswald, former marine.

Mr. ELY. Our procedure now will be to go through the document which you have just identified. I have numbered the pages of this document in the upper right-hand corner.

We will ask you to explain things as we come to them. Starting on page 1 of Exhibit No. 1, first I wonder if you might tell us what Oswald's scores here under the category of Physical Profile mean.

Colonel FOLSOM. Well, the classification of "A" indicates that there were no physical defects at the time he was examined--the date, 24 October 1956, I assume, was upon his enlistment.

Mr. ELY. Yes; moving down the left side of page 1, we have the abbreviation "PEBD." Will you tell us what that stands for?

Colonel FOLSOM. Pay entry base date.

Mr. ELY. I note that the pay entry base date on Oswald's record has been changed from 24 October 1956 to 8 December 1956. Why would this be?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct. This was changed to reflect time lost due to misconduct, confinement, or intemperate use of drugs or alcohol. In this instance it was days lost due to confinement.

Mr. ELY. Also on page 1 it is noted that Oswald was a "UQ" class swimmer. What does that stand for?

Colonel FOLSOM. Unqualified.

Mr. ELY. Finally on page 1, at the bottom, there is written in the fact that among the documents inserted in the record are some relating to "SA" action.

Colonel FOLSOM. Supervisory authority action in a court-martial.

Mr. ELY. I show you now page 3 of this exhibit. Could you tell us generally what this page of the record is.

Colonel FOLSOM. Page 3 of the Marine Corps Enlisted Service Record constitutes a record of primary duty assignments, the organization to which the individual was attached, with the dates, and also shows conduct and proficiency markings.

Mr. ELY. In connection with these conduct and proficiency markings, could you tell us what the scale is on which these grades are assigned?

Colonel FOLSOM. The Marine Corps marks on a scale of from 0 to 5.0.

Mr. ELY. 5.0 is the maximum grade?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. And what would be the minimum satisfactory grade? Is there no minimum?

Colonel FOLSOM. No; there is none as such, because the markings are averaged at the end of the enlistment, and in accordance with existing regulations, the numerical quality of the markings determine the difference in the character of discharge between honorable and under honorable conditions.

Mr. ELY. Do you know what the minimum average for an honorable discharge would be?

Colonel FOLSOM. I believe--was the question under honorable conditions?

Mr. ELY. Well, what would be the minimum for an honorable discharge?

Colonel FOLSOM. 4.0.

Mr. ELY. All right.

Now, I would like to take up some of these abbreviations specifically. I think the easiest way to designate this would be to go down the various columns on this page. Now, the column on the extreme left is labeled "organization." I shall ask you about the ones which I think might be unclear to somebody looking at this exhibit. There is an abbreviation here, after Oswald left Jacksonville, he was transferred to a unit abbreviated CASCO HQBN HQMC. Would you tell us what that stands for?

Colonel FOLSOM. That indicates he was attached to the Casual Company, Headquarters Battalion, Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps, at that time.

Mr. ELY. Now, this would have been while he was----

Colonel FOLSOM. He joined on 4 May 1957.

Mr. ELY. Yes; I believe it was during the time he was at Keesler Air Force Base.

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; undergoing duty under instruction.

Mr. ELY. Moving to the "reason" column on this page, we have here an entry of 27 October 1957, which is abbreviated, "To Sk." What does that stand for?

Colonel FOLSOM. To sick. He was admitted to the U.S. Naval Hospital Yokosuka, Japan.

Mr. ELY. And the entry directly below that one, which is abbreviated "To Du" would mean return to duty?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. The entry directly below the To Duty entry which is abbreviated "SEMIAN" would indicate what?

Colonel FOLSOM. That it was a semiannual marking.

Mr. ELY. In other words, this is an entry strictly for marking purposes?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. And the entry directly below that is abbreviated "To Cnfd."

Colonel FOLSOM. To confinement. In this instance, serving sentence summary court-martial.

Mr. ELY. Moving now to the next column, labeled "Primary Duty," one abbreviation which recurs is "DUINS." Could you tell us what that means?

Colonel FOLSOM. Duty under instruction.

Mr. ELY. And the entry of 12 September 1957 has an abbreviation which I believe refers to the sort of job which Oswald was performing. Could you tell us what that stands for?

Colonel FOLSOM. In this case he was a replacement trainee.

Mr. ELY. Well, that is the entry for 9 July 1957. That stands for replacement trainee. Could you tell us what the entry for 12 September 1957 is?

Colonel FOLSOM. It indicates that he joined Marine Air Control Squadron, No. 1, Marine Air Group 11, First Marine Aircraft Wing, Fleet Marine Force, care of "FPO" San Francisco. This is a mailing address for an organization in the First Wing which at that time was in Japan.

Mr. ELY. And what was the job that he performed?

Colonel FOLSOM. He was an aviation electronics operator.

Mr. ELY. All right. I think that with the help you have given us, anybody looking over this record which appears at page 3 and 4 of the Folsom Deposition Exhibit No. 1 could readily understand the progress of Oswald's service.

Turning now to page 5 of the exhibit, I notice that before Oswald was awarded his final MOS, he was awarded an MOS, that is a Military Occupational Specialty, of 6400. Do you know, Colonel, what that stands for?

Colonel FOLSOM. It is a basic MOS in aviation electronics, I believe.

Mr. ELY. Now, we have an entry at the bottom of page 5 of this exhibit which was later crossed out. Could you explain to us the meaning of that entry?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. This is an entry that is additional information as to promotion status on transfer to a new organization. This entry shows that Oswald achieved a composite score for the second 1958 testing period of 113. The reason it was deleted was due to his reduction from the rank of private first class to private pursuant to sentence of a summary court-martial.

Mr. ELY. Is there any way of evaluating his score of 113?

Colonel FOLSOM. It would be very difficult to reconstruct it. It is a composition of conduct and proficiency markings, time in service, and time in grade. And promotions are based on cutting scores established by Headquarters Marine Corps, which are promulgated to the field, and individuals holding the cutting score or higher may be promoted by their local organizations.

Mr. ELY. But the cutting score which is promulgated varies from time to time?

Colonel FOLSOM. It fluctuates. Well, it does not fluctuate--it is controlled by a staff agency at Headquarters, Marine Corps, to fulfill the needs of the Marine Corps by--in the varying grades.

Mr. ELY. Turning our attention now to page 6 of the exhibit, I notice here in the section labeled "Allotments" that toward the end of Oswald's Marine Corps career his mother received two allotments. These two allotments are designated differently in terms of purpose--one being given a "Q" designation and the other being given a "D" designation.

Can you explain what the difference is?

Colonel FOLSOM. The "Q" allotment is one where a portion of it is provided by the Government, and the other portion by the individual. It is a dependency allotment.

The "D" allotment, I believe, is an additional voluntary contribution.

Mr. ELY. The "D" allotment is one that the individual marine decides to send out of his pay?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. Immediately below the allotment section is the record of Oswald's firing of various weapons. We would like you to explain some of the abbreviations found in this record.

Under the column "Course" we see that at one point he fired the M-1 Rifle on a so-called "A" course, and, too, he fired it on a "B" course. Could you tell us what the difference is between those two courses?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; the "A" course is the standard marksmanship qualification course used by the Marine Corps for the M-1 Rifle. The "B" course is a shorter course--by that, less rounds of ammunition are fired.

Mr. ELY. But both of these courses are such that one can record a score?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; there are scores and adjective designations as a result of the scores.

In the case of the "A" course, Oswald obtained a score of 212 which would, under regulations in effect at that time, have made him a sharpshooter. However, the score of 212 was erroneously designated with the abbreviation "MM" for marksman.

When he fired the "B" course, he is rated "MM" or marksman, and this is a correct designation in accordance with the score fired.

Mr. ELY. Am I correct in stating that when he fired the "A" course he would have been still in basic training at San Diego?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes.

Mr. ELY. This was on the 21st of December 1958. Did you mention what the minimum score for sharpshooter would have been at that point?

Colonel FOLSOM. It would have been 210.

Mr. ELY. In other words, he was two points over the minimum for sharpshooter and the designation "MM" on his record was an error?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. Am I correct in stating that the "B" course firing to which you referred occurred on May 6, 1959, at El Toro, Calif.?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.

Mr. ELY. His record also discloses that he fired a riot gun, a .45 caliber pistol, and at some times an M-1 rifle on a course designated "FAM." That stands for familiarization?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. And that means that no scores----

Colonel FOLSOM. No score is recorded. It is merely to familiarize the people with the operation of the weapon.

Mr. ELY. When you speak of ratings of sharpshooter and marksman, is it correct that the scale runs--marksman is the lowest, sharpshooter the next highest, and expert would be the highest category?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. Turning now to page 7 of the exhibit, which is titled "Military and Civilian Occupational Specialties and Education," I see hereabout halfway down the left column abbreviations for the courses taken by Oswald, first while he was at Jacksonville, and then while he was at Keesler Air Force Base. Could you tell us the meanings of these two abbreviations?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; at Jacksonville he was undergoing instruction in aviation fundamentals school, course "P." And at Keesler Air Force Base, he was undergoing a course of instruction in air control and warning operator's course. Both of these courses were of 6 weeks' duration.

Mr. ELY. I am a little curious about Keesler Air Force Base. Is that under the auspices of the Air Force rather than the Marine Corps?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; it is an Air Force School.

Mr. ELY. And do people from all branches of the service get trained there?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; we have cross training with all the other services.

Mr. ELY. All right. Now, moving further down page 7, we have the record of a Russian examination taken by Oswald on February 25, 1959. Could you explain to us what sort of test this was, and what the scores achieved by Oswald mean?

Colonel FOLSOM. The test form was Department of the Army, Adjutant General's Office, PRT-157. This is merely the test series designation.

Now, under "understands" the scoring was minus 5, which means that he got five more wrong than right. The "P" in parentheses indicates "poor." Under reading he achieved a score of 4, which is low. This, again, is shown by the "P" in parentheses for "poor."

Mr. ELY. This 4 means he got four more questions right than wrong?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.

And under "writes" he achieved a score of 3, with "P" in parentheses, and this indicates he got three more right than he did wrong.

His total score was 2, with a "P" in parentheses meaning that overall he got two more right than wrong, and his rating was poor throughout.

Mr. ELY. Page 7 also summarizes the results of the battery of classification and aptitude tests taken by Oswald upon his entry into the Marine Corps, specifically on October 30, 1956. This battery was composed of six examinations.

Oswald's scores I see range from as low as 92 to as high as 125.

Could you, Colonel, tell us about these six categories, what they are, and what Oswald's scores in each of them means?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. I will take this in sequence.

The "RV" indicates reading and vocabulary, and the score, Roman numeral II-125 indicates that he was in the second category. Categories throughout the test battery run from I to IV, with IV being the highest.

The abbreviation "AC"--arithmetical computation--and the score Roman numeral III-108, indicates that he dropped into the third class.

"AR" is arithmetical computation, Roman numeral III-90, indicates that he was at the bottom of the Grade 3 in this area.

"PA" indicates pattern analysis, Roman numeral III-94 indicates that he was the bottom portion of the third group in this category.

Now, these four areas are grouped into a general classification test score, the abbreviation "GCT" represents that definition. And as a result of Oswald's composite scores, he was graded as a Grade 3, Roman III-103. At that time, the Marine Corps average, I believe, was 107.

Mr. ELY. Would you explain the one designated "RCT"?

Colonel FOLSOM. The abbreviation "RCT" is--represents radio code test. There are three scores in this, ranging from one to three, with one being the highest. The minimum, or the range in Grade III is from 90 to 109. As Oswald achieved 92, he was in the bottom, practically, of Group III.

Mr. ELY. Which is the lowest group.

Colonel FOLSOM. Which is the lowest.

Mr. ELY. Now, directing your attention to page 8, which is a summary court memorandum: this relates, I believe, to his first court-martial, and in general is self-explanatory. I want, however, to ask you about one sentence which to me seems to be in error.

According to the notation made here on page 8, under the title "Convening Authorities Action Dated," it states that that part of Oswald's sentence confining him at hard labor for 20 days would be suspended "for 6 months at which time, unless the suspension is sooner vacated, the sentence to confinement at hard labor for 20 days will be remitted without further action."

However, turning our attention down to Section 11, page 8, it was noted that on June 27, 1958, which would be the time of his second court-martial, "Confinement at hard labor for 28 days vacated on June 27, 1958."

So the way it is worded it says that the confinement would be vacated. Am I correct in assuming, Colonel, that what it really means to say is that the suspension of the sentence was vacated?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.

However, there appears to be an error here, since the original sentence was for 20 days, and not 28 days, as shown under the subject entry.

Mr. ELY. Right.

So I suppose we have a typographical error, substituting 28 for 20 and we also have a misleading sentence in that it implies that the sentence was vacated rather than that the suspension of the sentence was vacated.

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.

Mr. ELY. However, Colonel, what did happen is that when he was court-martialed the second time, they then sentenced him to both the sentence for the second court-martial and at that time gave him the sentence that he received in connection with the first court-martial?

Colonel FOLSOM. Well, that portion of it--unexecuted portion of the first sentence.

Mr. ELY. That is correct. Thank you.

On page 9 of the exhibit we have some records relating to the second court-martial. At this point, again, I think the page is in general self-explanatory. However, under the section marked "Findings" on each charge, and specifications, there is the notation that on Charge II he was found not guilty, and then it goes on to say, "On specification of" Charge I. Am I correct in thinking that is a typographical error and that it should be that on the specification of Charge II, he was found not guilty?

Colonel FOLSOM. That is correct.

Mr. ELY. So the record should read, on page 9, that Oswald was found guilty on Charge I, which was a violation of Article 117 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Similarly he was found guilty on the specification under Charge I, which was wrongfully using provoking words to a staff noncommissioned officer. However, on Charge II, which was a violation of Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, he was found not guilty, and he was similarly found not guilty on the specification of that charge which was assaulting a staff noncommissioned officer by pouring a drink on him.

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.

Mr. ELY. Turning now to page 10 of the exhibit, the title of which is "Administrative Remarks" I note entries dated April 14, 1958, indicating that a request for an extension of Oswald's overseas tour had been received and approved.

Must such a request come from the marine whose overseas tour is involved?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. This must be a voluntary request from the individual concerned.

Mr. ELY. In other words, then, Oswald wanted to stay overseas longer than he was scheduled to have been over there?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes.

Mr. ELY. I note, also, on page 10 that this extension which had been approved was later canceled, on July 13, 1958.

Is there any way of determining from this record what the reason for this cancellation was?

Colonel FOLSOM. No; other than knowledge of the system, which indicates that the local commander withdrew his approval of the extension as a result of the disciplinary action.

Mr. ELY. So we might guess that because this followed his second court-martial, that was the reason?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes; and it followed it very closely.

Mr. ELY. Now, we will move all the way over to page 26, and I want to ask you about only one entry here--actually it is two entries relating to one event.

On January 19, 1959, the record discloses that Oswald departed El Toro for Yuma, Arizona, and that on January 26, 1959, he returned to El Toro from Yuma.

Is there any way of telling from this record for what purpose he went to Yuma?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. The record shows that he departed MCS, MCAS, El Toro, for ADEX, 1-59, which is a designation for an air defense exercise, the first one held during 1959.

Mr. ELY. Turning to page 27, I just want to clear up one detail that might be confusing to somebody who has been in the Army rather than in the Marine Corps.

It is here noted that Oswald was, at least for part of his career, private, first class, and at the same time his pay grade was "E-2". Am I correct in asserting that in the Marine Corps a private is an E-1, a private first class is an E-2, your E-3 is a lance corporal, and your E-4 is a corporal?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct. This is under the new rank structure.

Mr. ELY. Turning now to page 36 of Folsom Deposition Exhibit 1, I want to ask you about only one abbreviation here. This is one that is indicated for both the periods June 27, 1958 through June 30, 1959 and July 1, 1958 through July 24, 1958. It is an abbreviated CNF SSCM. What does that stand for?

Colonel FOLSOM. Confined, serving sentence--it should be summary court-martial, but let me look at the record.

Mr. ELY. You mean there should be three "S's"?

Colonel FOLSOM. I just want to be sure somebody didn't goof and ring a special in here.

Yes--serving sentence, summary court-martial.

Mr. ELY. Turning now to page 106 of the exhibit, we have here a document relating to the high school level general educational development tests which were taken by Oswald on March 23, 1959. Page 106 reports the scores received by Oswald on each of these five tests, and also converts each score into a so-called United States percentile.

However, it does not make clear what the five areas in which Oswald was tested were. Could you tell us what they are?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. The high school "GED" test covers five areas. One, English literature; two, English composition; three, social sciences; four, physical sciences; five, mathematics.

Mr. ELY. Is it the case that those five that you have just read off were read in the same order as they are numbered on the score sheet?

Colonel FOLSOM. Yes. The battery is administered in the sequence in which it appears on the report.

Mr. ELY. And am I correct in asserting that on this test Oswald received a rating of satisfactory?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct. I believe USAFI rates as satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

Mr. ELY. Right.

Well, that is not entirely clear. We have a rating code printed in the lower right-hand corner.

Colonel FOLSOM. Well, they have two passing ones--satisfactory, and "D" with distinction, and "U", unsatisfactory.

Mr. ELY. So he could have received a higher rating than he did?

Colonel FOLSOM. This is correct.