Chapter V: Excerpt From Report of Mr. Peterkin, General Inspector of Board (1)

SUPERVISION OF THE POOR IN SCOTLAND. <Shop Dealings with Paupers>.--The Board are aware of the constantly recurring reference I have had to make for many years to the tendency of Inspectors and members of Parochial Boards, here and there, over the whole of Scotland, to traffic with paupers, by furnishing them with goods of all kinds, and with lodgings, and intercepting the parochial allowances in payment thereof. On this subject there has, since the institution of the Board, been a constant struggle; for here and there, all over Scotland, in the large towns as well as in rural and remote parishes, the practice prevailed, and was occasionally discovered-- generally by accident. The Board long ago expressed decided opinions on the impropriety of the practice. Now in Shetland, it so happens that almost the only persons who are practically the administrators of the Poor Law are more or less directly or indirectly interested in the local trade -- in the fish-curing, or in the shops, or in the stores of one kind or another. In one parish the Poor Law is practically administered by these merchants and fish-curers, and to their shops the paupers must of necessity go to make their purchases. In two other parishes nearly the same thing occurs. There is probably no parish in Shetland, where, to a greater or less extent, this is not the case; and to find there persons capable of transacting business, and of acting as members of Boards or Inspectors of Poor, who are not, in some way or other, directly or indirectly interested in a shop, or connected with a shopkeeper, is perhaps impossible. Where the line is to be drawn, when all interest in the business of the shop will cease, is beyond my powers of discovery. Even among the more recent appointments of Inspectors we have one who is personally unobjectionable, having no shop; but his mother keeps "<the shop>" of the district. Another was a shopkeeper; and on his appointment as Inspector he gave up his shop and goods, and with them, of course, it was to be supposed all interest in the business; but he made them all over to his niece, <a girl fifteen>! And the third, having ceased to keep a shop, acts as agent for his brother and his partners, who have shops and stores and curing stations; but at present he sells nothing. These three men seem to me in themselves to be really as competent as can be for their duties, and are, I believe, as good and efficient men as can be found in their respective parishes. In another parish we have as an Inspector the paid shopman or servant of the firm who has "<the store>." In another parish the chairman of the Board has "<the shop>," and his brother has "<the other shop>." In short, everything in Shetland gravitates towards "<the shop>." To it the child takes a dozen eggs in a morning, and obtains for the family breakfast what is called a "<corn o' tea>;" to it the young woman takes her knitted hosiery, and in exchange will receive either tea or some article or material of dress; to it the pauper takes the pass-book, or pay-ticket of the parish, and on that guarantee will get the "<corn o' tea>," or the "<corn o meal>;' and he who supplies the goods over the counter is almost certain to be a member of the Board, or a near relative of one who is, or of the Inspector, -- he may even be the chairman of the Board himself.

'I do not pretend to be able to offer any suggestions to remedy such a state of matters, but too rely state the facts as they have come under my observation. I have, however, no doubt that the poors' rates in Shetland are, to a great extent, but the natural results of such parochial arrangements as I have referred to.'

VI.--NOTES OF PRICES PAID BY JAMES METHUEN, LEITH, FOR (CURED) SALT FISH, FREE ON BOARD AT LERWICK, FROM 1853 TO 1871.

Year Ling Cod Tusk Saith 1853 £20, 10s. £18 £20. 10s. £10. 10s. 1854-5 .... .... .... .... 1856 .... £15 .... £11, 10s. to £12 1857 £21 to £22 £18 to £17 £19, 5s. £12, 10s. 1858 £21, 10s. £16, 10s. .... £12 1859 £20 to £22 £15, 10s. .... £10 to £11 1860 £19 to £21 £17. 15s £20 £13 1861 £18 to £17, 10s. £17, 10s. £18 £12 to £13 1862 £17 to £18 £15 to £16 £17 £8, 10s. 1863 £18 to £20, 10s. £18 £20 £9 1864 £18 to £21 £17 to £19 £21, 5s. £12 1865 £23 to £24 £21 to £22 £23 £15 1866 £23 to £25, 10s. £19 to £23 £24 £13, 10s. 1867 £17 to £18 £16 £17 £7 1868 £18 to £19 £16 .... .... 1869 £20 to £20, 10s. £17 £18, 10s. £11 1870 £21, 10s. to £22 £18 £20 .... 1871 £22, 10s. to £24 £20 .... £13, 10s.

Priced per ton

VII.--ABSTRACTS OF SETTLEMENTS PRODUCED BY MR. GARRIOCK.

1. ABSTRACT of SETTLEMENT with FAROE FISHERMEN by GARRIOCK & CO.

Vessel Earning Paid in Lines, Clothes,
Cash Hooks Meal, etc.,
and Stores for Self and
used on Family
Board
'Mizpah' 1870. £585 2 1 £374 13 6 £81 7 11 £129 0 8
'Mizpah' 1871. £328 19 11 £198 9 7 £63 3 4 £67 7 0
'Sylvia' 1870. £427 19 2 £239 17 0 £71 7 9 £16 4 5

2. ABSTRACT OF SETTLEMENT with CREWS of FISHERMEN at DALE and WALLS -- Season 1871.

Name of Crew Gross Earning Lines, Nets, Salt, Meal, and Goods Amount paid in Cash <6-oared boats> James Twatt and crew £66 8 6 £16 4 4 £50 4 2 John Jeromson and crew 88 16 111/2 18 4 4 70 12 71/2 Wm. Jameson and crew 74 11 11 36 12 11 37 19 0 Fraser Henry and crew 100 0 41/2 20 1 61/2 79 18 10 Thomas Laurenson and crew 100 2 7 27 14 6 72 8 1 Jacob Christie and crew 96 6 6 15 2 71/2 81 3 101/2 36 men Total £526 6 10 £134 0 3 £392 6 7 <4-oared boats> Scott Williamson and crew £21 2 11/2 £9 8 91/2 £11 13 4 Chas. Williamson and crew 33 2 11/2 19 16 81/2 13 5 6 William Smith and crew 21 17 7 10 2 31/2 11 15 31/2 Jas. Tait and crew 34 3 41/2 7 19 21/2 26 4 2 Geo. Georgeson and crew 16 0 7 .... 16 0 7 Thomas Moffat and crew 18 15 41/2 4 14 81/2 14 0 8 Magnus Thomson and crew* Thos. Thomson and crew* Mat. Thomson and crew* 158 11 0 42 18 9 115 12 3 34 men Total £829 19 1 £229 0 81/2 £600 18 41/2

* 4 boats with 3 men each = 12 men

AVERAGE.

Earning Goods, etc. Cash 36 men in six-oared boats, each £14 12 5 £3 14 5 £10 17 11 34 men in four-oared boats, each £8 18 7 £2 15 103/4 £6 2 81/4

Minutes of Evidence taken before the Commission on the Truck System (Shetland)

Lerwick: Monday, January 1, 1872. Mr Guthrie, Commissioner.

<Mr. Guthrie>.-I have come here, as a Commissioner appointed under the Truck Act of 1870, to inquire into the system of Truck, and to report upon that and upon the operation of all Acts or provisions of Acts prohibiting the truck system; and I have power under the Act, as it says, 'to investigate all offences against such Acts which have occurred within the period of two years immediately preceding the passing of this Act (that was, in 1870), and to make such report on the subject of the truck system, and of the existing laws in relation thereto, as they (the Commissioners) shall deem proper and useful'. I wish all that are here, and all that are interested in the subject of this inquiry, to remember that the object for which I am sent here is simply to find out the truth, and the whole truth, about the way in which the system of truck, or, if it is not properly called the system of truck, the system of paying wages and the price of productions,-which is said to prevail in Shetland, operates; and I trust and believe that I shall receive from all of you every assistance in ascertaining the truth with regard to that matter. I wish every person in Shetland, and every person interested in the matter, to bear in mind, first of all, that I come here with no formed opinion as to the operation of that system, either on the one side or on the other. I come here to find out the truth; and I believe that, so far as Shetland is concerned, the Government which has sent me here is in exactly the same position, and has not formed any opinion. It is simply anxious to find out what is the truth about the system which is alleged to prevail here; and I trust, as I have already said, that I shall receive every assistance from everybody in prosecuting that inquiry. I have to thank some gentlemen, to whom I have already made application for information, for the courteous way in which they have responded to my application. The interests of some of them may be supposed to be affected by the inquiry, but I hope that they and all of you will come forward frankly and tell me what you know about the matter. It is right, however, to mention, that the Act of Parliament under which I am sent here, furnishes me with special and very stringent powers with regard to the obtaining of information. In particular, I am empowered, among other things, to examine witnesses upon oath; to compel them to answer such questions, as may be put to them; to compel the production of documents; to order the inspection of any real or personal property; and a summons requiring the attendance of a witness must be obeyed just in the same way as if it were issued by any of Her Majesty's superior courts. I hope and trust, however, that it will be unnecessary to exercise any of these powers. I think the people of Shetland have sufficient intelligence and good sense to make the enforcement of these powers quite unnecessary. I rely upon their good sense and courtesy to allow the truth to be ascertained, without any difficulty or any resistance or attempt at concealment. I may mention-although perhaps in this country it is less necessary-that the Act of Parliament gives me power, when any person examined as a witness makes a full and true disclosure touching all matters with respect to which he is examined, to give him a certificate stating that he has made such a full and true disclosure; and that certificate has the effect of protecting him against any civil or criminal procedure which might be taken against him in consequence of anything that he speaks to. Further, I have to express a hope that no person who is interested in the system that is said to prevail here will in any way attempt to interfere with this inquiry by intimidating any witness who is to be called before me, or exercising any undue or improper influence upon him. If any instance of such intimidation or improper influence takes place, I hope the party on whom it is attempted to be exercised will at once make the circumstance known to me, whether that intimidation is exercised by a threat of dismissal from employment or a refusal of work, or in whatever other way it may be done. All these things would be a serious violation of the law, and would be visited with severe punishment. I shall be ready to receive any information that any person may wish to give on the subject of the inquiry; and if any one wishes to give evidence or to suggest any point for inquiry, I have to ask that they will give that information privately, as the inquiry itself, so far as the taking down of evidence is concerned, must, by the terms of the Act, be held in public.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872. CATHERINE WINWICK, examined

1. You live in Lerwick?-Yes.

2. You are in the habit of knitting for Mr. Linklater?-Yes.

3. For any one else?-No.

4. Do you supply your own wool?-No.

5. Where do you get it?-I knit Mr. Linklater's own worsted.

6. Do you get a supply of it at his shop?-Yes.

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7. Do you pay for it when you get it?-No; he pays me for the knitting.

8. Are you paid in money?-Some in money and some in goods.

9. What is your system of dealing? When you go with anything you have knitted to Mr. Linklater's shop, do you put a price upon it?-No; he gives what he thinks right.

10. He puts the price upon it?-Yes.

11. Does he pay you that price usually in money?-Part in money and part in goods. He does not pay all in money.

12. Do you keep a pass-book with him?-No.

13. Do you get all the money you want?-I always get what money I ask for; but I never ask for all in money. I have asked for a few shillings in money, and I have always got it.

14. Why did you not ask for the whole in money?-Because he was not in the habit of giving all money for his knitting.

15. Do you mean that you knew if you had asked for it you would not have got it?-I don't think I would have got it all in money; I never asked him for it all, but I always got what I asked for. If I asked him for a few shillings of money, he always gave it to me.

16. Is a settlement always made when you bring your work back?-Sometimes it is, and sometimes not perhaps sometimes I have something in his hands to get, and perhaps sometimes I am due him a little.

17. Due him for what?-For anything. Perhaps he might give me something sometimes when I did not have it to get, if I asked him for it.

18. Did you ever wish to buy your goods at any other place?-No; I could not buy my goods at any other place.

19. Were you always content with what you got?-Yes; I was always content.

20. Then if you wanted money, it would be for some other purpose, such as paying rent?-Yes.

21. Or for provisions?-Yes.

22. And you always got what you wanted for these purposes?- Yes. When I asked for a few shillings of money for knitting, I always got it.

23. Do you live by yourself?-Yes.

24. And not in family with any others?-No.

25. Do you make all your living by knitting?-Yes.

26. You have no other means of getting money to pay your rent?- No.

27. You pay rent for a room?-Yes.

28. And you have always got enough from the employer to whom you sell your work to pay your room rent and your food?-Yes. It had to be enough, for I could not get anything else.

29. Do you mean by that, that you would have liked to have had more money to spend upon food?-Yes.

30. But you could only get goods?-Yes.

31. How much do you earn by knitting in a week or in a month?-I suppose perhaps about 10s. in a month. I would knit a shawl in a month, and the merchant would allow me that sum for knitting it.

32. Would it take you a month to knit a shawl, working at nothing else?-Yes. Of course I would not be always at it. People cannot sit and knit continually; but it would take a month to make it, working in an ordinary way.

33. When you take that shawl to the shop, price of say 10s. is put upon it, how much of that do you got in money, and how much in goods?-I have knitted a shawl for 10s, and I have got 5s. in money on it from Mr. Linklater.

34. Is that the usual proportion of money you get?-No, not always. Sometimes I don't get so much as that.

35. Did you ever ask for more?-No; I think never asked for any more on one shawl.

36. Supposing you were going with a shawl of that value what goods would you get? Take the last time you went, for instance: what did you get?-Cottons, or such things as I would be requiring. The last time I was there I bought nine yards of cotton at 81/2d. a yard.

37. Was that to make a dress with?-No; it was white cotton.

38. Did you ask for that?-Yes.

39. Did you want it for any particular purpose?-Yes; I wanted it.

40. What else did you get?-That is all I remember getting at that time.

41. Did you get the rest in money?-Yes.

42. Have you any reason to complain of the quality of the goods you get?-No, I have not.

43. Would you wish to go to any other shop if you got money?-I have no reason to leave Mr. Linklater, for he has always given me money as well as I could have got it from any other merchant, I believe.

44. What arrangement do you make about the supplying of the wool?-We make no arrangement.

45. Then you are supplied with the wool; and the 10s. is the price not of the shawl, but of your work upon it?-Yes.

46. Is that the usual way in which the knitting trade is carried on by the women in Shetland?-Yes.

47. Do they generally get the wool supplied to them that way?-I believe they do. At least it is the way with some of them. They won't want it.

48. They don't buy the wool themselves?-They are not able to buy the wool.

49. Have you worked for other merchants than Mr. Linklater?- No; only for him. I have knitted a few things for a lady, but I never knitted to any other merchant than Mr. Linklater.

50. Then you don't know how the other merchants deal with the women who knit for them?-No; I cannot say anything about that.

51. Would you prefer to sell your goods to a private lady, or to a stranger counting to Shetland, rather than have to take them to a merchant?-If I could get all money for them, I would prefer that. 52. Supposing there was a merchant here who paid for goods altogether in money, would you prefer to take your hosiery to him?-Yes; if I could get all money, I would prefer that.

53. Is there no such person?-No; there is no such person here as that. A lady may buy a thing or two at a time, and give money for them, but that could not be a general thing.

54. How do you know that you cannot got money from the merchants? Is it because you have attempted to get it, or simply because you have a sort of understanding to that effect?-The merchants don't allow all money for the knitting.

55. Have they told you that?-Yes.

56. Who has told you?-Just the whole of them. None of them pay wholly in money for anything.

57. But who has told you that? I think you said you had never been refused?-I never was refused a few shillings on anything by Mr. Linklater. When I took home work to him and asked him for a few shillings of money, I always got it.

58. But you would rather have it all in money?-Yes.

59. And you cannot get it?-No.

60. How do you know that?-They won't give it to us. If we buy worsted ourselves, and knit the work, and take it to them, they won't give any money at all.

61. Have you tried that?-Yes.

62. You have knitted a shawl with your own worsted, and gone to them to sell it; and they would not allow money on it?-Yes.

63. Has Mr. Linklater done that?-Yes.

64. Did he refuse to give you money for that shawl?-Yes.

65. But he would pay for the shawl in goods?-Yes, if I would sell it.

66. When did that happen?-I could not just remember the time; but it has been often.

67. You did that yourself?-Yes, I have done that myself; and I have got shawls from friends to sell, and have gone out with them, and the merchants would not give money on them.

68. Is there anything else you want to say?-No.

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Lerwick, January 1, 1872, JANET IRVINE, examined.

69. Do you live in Lerwick?-Yes.

70. Your mother is a widow?-Yes.

71. Do you support yourself by knitting?-Yes; and partly by working outside at the fish.

72. What have you to do with the fish?-I help to cure them in the fish-curing establishment.

73. For whom do you knit?-Sometimes for myself, and sometimes for Miss Mary Hutchison.

74. Is she a dealer in hosiery?-Yes; she knits shawls herself, and sends them south.

75. Is she an agent?-Yes.

76. For whom?-I think she is agent for Mr. White, in Edinburgh.

77. Do you sometimes work for others?-No; not very often. I sometimes work for myself when I have any time. I knit a veil or a necktie, but in the summer 1 have not much time for that.

78. Do you knit these things for the purpose of selling them?- Yes.

79. Do you sometimes sell to the merchants in Lerwick?-Yes.

80. To whom?-To any one who is buying anything.

81. Do you generally get money for your shawls?-No; I got money from Miss Hutchison when I ask for it.

82. Do you get the price all in money from her?-When I want it all in money, I get it all in money, and when I want any other thing, she gives it to me.

83. Do you generally ask for it all in money from her?-Yes; I generally ask for it in money, because that is the only way we have to get it.

84. Does she deal in goods?-No. She generally brings home a little tea.

85. Does she only deal in tea?-In nothing else, so far as I know.

86. Then you sometimes get payment from her in tea?-Yes. When I ask it, I get it; but when I ask money, I get money.

87. When you sell to the merchants in Lerwick, do you get payment in money?-No; I never asked it, because I know they would not give it to us, as it is not the custom. They do not give it here.

88. Do you get part of it in money?-No; I get no money.

89. You have to take it all in goods?-Yes.

90. Do you prefer to get it in goods or in money?-I would like to get money if I could; but I can't get it.

91. And Miss Hutchison is not always ready to buy, from you?- No; she does not buy anything but her own. She brings home worsted, or buys worsted here, and I get it from her to knit.

92. What you sell to the merchants you knit with your own worsted?-Yes.

93. Where do you buy your worsted?-From the shops.

94. Which shops?-I used to buy from Mr. Brown, but he is not alive now; and I buy from Mr. Sinclair.

95. Do you pay ready-money for your worsted when you buy it?- Yes.

96. Do you not get worsted from the shops to knit into articles for the merchants?-No.

97. You sell to the shops only when Miss Hutchison has not got work for you?-Yes. It is only when I have it of my own that I sell to the shops.

98. Have you asked for money instead of goods at any of the shops?-No; I never asked for it.

99. Your sister also works in the same way?-Yes; she knits, but she does not work outside. She is not here to-day.

100. When was the last time you took anything of your own knitting to a shop to sell? Was it long ago?-No; it is not long,- perhaps about two or three weeks ago.

101. What was it?-A necktie.

102. Where did you take it?-I took it to Mr. Sinclair's. I could not get it sold that night, because he was not in, and the servants could not take it in his absence. I took it home with me.

103. What did you do with it?-The woman who dressed it sold it for me at Mr. Sinclair's. She generally dresses things, and sometimes sells them for me.

104. What is dressing?-Getting them sorted for sale. After being knitted, they are washed and dressed and starched.

105. Do you give the woman who dresses the articles a commission to sell them?-Yes; she sells them for me.

106. Why is that?-Because she is generally in the way of doing it. She can do it better than I can.

107. Do you mean that she can make a better bargain?-She dresses goods for the merchants, and sometimes she sells them too. She sold that article for me.

108. Who is the woman?-Mrs. William Arcus; she lives at the Docks.

109. What was the price put upon that necktie which she sold?- Eighteenpence.

110. What did you get for it?-I just got anything I required.

111. What did you require at that time?-I got a little tea, and the rest in cotton.

112. Did you want the tea?-Yes.

113. Have you sometimes asked the merchants for goods which they would not give you?-No.

114. When you go to a merchant to sell a shawl, can you get any kind of goods you want?-I don't sell any shawls, because I don't have any of my own. I have not had any of my own for a long time.

115. But when you go to sell any of the goods you have knitted, can you get anything you want?-I cannot get money, but I can get anything else, except worsted. They won't give it.

116. Will they not give you worsted for your knitted goods?-No. They won't give it for the hosiery. They want money for the worsted.

117. Do they give any reason for that?-I don't know. They say it is a money article.

118. Does that mean ready-money?-Yes.

119. It is cotton or tea you generally get?-Yes; or any other small thing except money. We can get anything except it.

120. You work at other things; so that I suppose you have money from your wages in the fish-curing establishment for the purpose of paying your rent, and things that you must pay in money?-Yes.

121. You get your wages there in money?-Yes; I get money for that.

122. You work for Mr. Leask?-Yes.

123. He does not keep a store of any kind?-No; he has no store, but he keeps a shop.

124. Have you to take goods for your wages there?-No; I can either get money or goods, whichever I want.

125. But what do you do in point of fact? Do you take money or do you take goods from Mr. Leask's shop?-I take money.

126. Always?-Not always. I take other things too, because they keep everything there that is required.

127. You have no complaint to make about that?-No.

128. You are quite content to go to Mr. Leask's shop for what you want?-Yes.

129. When you buy things there, you pay your money across the counter?-Yes.

130. You have got that money from the pay-clerk previously?- Yes.

131. Where is that money paid to you?-In the shop.

132. In which shop?-In Mr. Leask's shop. We get it in the office, and we pay it in the shop. He has two shops there.

133. Is the office at the Docks?-No; it is in the town.

134. Are you expected to go to Mr. Leask's shop when you get your wages?-No; we can go anywhere we like.

135. How long in the year do you work for Mr. Leask?- Sometimes, when the vessels get fish early, we begin soon. We begin in the spring.

136. Will you work there for six months?-Some [Page 4] times longer. We sometimes begin in spring, and work until after Martinmas.

137. During all that time you won't do much knitting?-No.

138. But you get your wages every week?-Yes.

139. How much do you get?-1s. a day.

140. And that is paid weekly on Saturdays at the office?-Yes.

141. Do you take that money home?-Yes; what I don't pay away.

142. You perhaps want something on the Saturday, and go into the shop for it?-Yes; what I want I go into the shop for.

143. How much of it do you generally take home after making your purchases?-I cannot say.

144. As a general thing, do you spend the half of it in the shop?- Yes; I spend the half of it.

145. Every week?-No; sometimes it is more, and sometimes less.

146. Have you ever been told that you ought to go to the shop?- No.

147. Or that you are expected to go there?-No.

148. Would you still be employed there in the same way although you went and bought your goods elsewhere?-They don't bid any of their people buy out of the shop. They just please themselves. Mr. Leask just gives the money, and he does not care where you buy from.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, Mrs. CHRISTINA WILLIAMSON, examined.

149. You are a widow, and live in the Widows' Asylum in Lerwick?-Yes.

150. Are you in the habit of knitting goods for sale?-Yes.

151. Do you knit for any particular merchant?-No; I knit for myself.

152. Do you buy your own wool?-Yes; I generally get wool, and get a woman to spin it for me.

153. Who is that woman?-Mrs. Irvine, Burn's Close.

154. Is that the mother of the last witness?-Yes.

155. Do you buy the wool from a farmer?-Yes.

156. And then you knit it for yourself, and take the shawls and sell them?-Yes.

157. Do you do that upon an order, or just upon chance?-Just upon chance.

158. Who do you generally sell to?-I have some unsold just now. The last one is unsold.

159. How long have you had it?-I have had that one lying for a twelvemonth.

160. Why don't you sell it?-Because I can't get money for it.

161. Who have you asked to buy it?-I have asked none lately.

162. Who have you asked at all?-I have asked no one in the town.

163. Why do you know you would not get money?-Because it is not the custom to give it, and therefore did not ask it.

164. Have you ever asked money for your shawls?-Yes; often.

165. From whom have you asked money?-I have asked it from the whole of the merchants in the town, but they are not used to giving money.

166. Who are the merchants in the town?-Mr. Sinclair and Mr. Tulloch, and Mr. Laurenson.

167. Are these all you remember?-Yes.

168. Have you sold any shawls to any of these gentlemen lately?- Yes; I sold one to Mr. Laurenson about three months ago.

169. What was the price put upon it?-30s.

170. Was that what you call fine knitting?-Yes.

171. How were you paid for it?-I got goods for it.

172. Did you get no money at all?-No.

173. Did you ask to get some of it in money?-No; I did not ask that.

174. Did you want to get the goods?-Yes; because the goods suited.

175. What goods did you get?-I got bread.

176. Does Mr. Laurenson sell bread in his shop?-Yes.

177. Was there an account run for that?-Yes.

178. What else did you?-Just all kinds of things I was using.

179. Was it all provisions that you got?-No; there was light and plenty of things.

180. Any clothes?-No clothes.

181. Was there any account due before you sold that shawl?-No.

182. Did you get all these goods away with you at the time?-No; I just ran an account for them.

183. Have you got a pass-book?-I have got one, but I don't have it with me.

184. Was that pass-book going on with Laurenson before you sold him the shawl?-No; it just commenced when I sold the shawl.

185. Does that account still continue?-Yes.

186. Do you remember how much it comes to now?-No; I don't remember exactly.

187. Do you live in the Widows' Asylum?-Yes.

188. Are you not provided for there?-No.

189. You have to get your own food?-Yes.

190. You got what you wanted on that occasion from Mr. Laurenson?-Yes.

191. Have you sold anything to him since then?-No.

192. Have you sold anything to any one else?-No.

193. Did you not knit a shawl for' Mr. Tulloch about a month ago?-Yes.

194. You did not sell it to him?-No; I did not sell it. 195. Did he supply the wool in that case?-Yes.

196. Was that because you had not wool of your own?-Yes.

197. What did he charge for the wool?-He just gave me £1 for knitting the shawl.

198. He supplied the wool, and agreed to pay you for knitting the shawl?-Yes.

199. Were you paid that £1?-Yes.

200. In money?-No.

201. Did you ask for money?-No.

202. Are you sure you did not ask for it in money?-Yes; I am sure of that.

203. Did you get any part of it in money?-No.

204. What did you get?-Just any clothes that I was needing.

205. When you went into the shop with the shawl, what passed between you?-I said, 'Here is your shawl Mr. Tulloch.' He asked me what I was wanting.

206. Did you say you wanted money?-No.

207. What did you say?-That I was wanting some goods.

208. Did you mention the goods you wanted?-Yes.

209. What were they?-I believe I took 6 yards of white cotton at 6d. a yard; I also took 41/4 yards of cloth at 4s. 2d. a yard, with which to make waterproof clothing. I got some small things with the balance but I don't remember what they were.

210. But the shawl was to be £1; the cotton came to 3s., and the waterproof cloth to 17s. 81/2d., so that you were rather in Mr. Tulloch's debt: was that left standing till the next time?-Yes.

211. Then you are to knit him something more?-Yes.

212. You have another order just now?-Yes.

213. Are you working at it?-I have not begun to it just yet.

214. Have you anything else to sell just now?-Yes.

215. Is it something you have knitted with your own wool?-Yes; but I have sent it south.

216. Is that because you expect to get money there?-Yes; I have sent it to an old neighbour woman of mine who is now in Thurso.

217. Is she a person who makes a practice of dealing in such things?-No; she is just an acquaintance of mine.

218. Is there anything else you wish to say?-No.

[Page 5]

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, ELIZABETH ROBERTSON, examined.

219. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-Yes.

220. Do you live alone?-I live with my aged stepmother.

221. Who do you work for?-For the last six years I have knitted for myself, but before that I used to knit for the merchants in general. I knitted for the late Mr. Laurenson, and Mr. G. Harrison, and Mr. Tulloch, and Mr. Linklater,-in short, for almost all the merchants.

222. But that was six years ago?-Yes.

223. When you knitted for the merchants, was the wool supplied to you by them?-Yes.

224. Did you pay for it when you got it out, or when you were paid for your work upon it?-I was just paid for my work.

225. How much would you be able to make in a week at that sort of work?-I could not exactly say how much. I was in delicate health; but in some weeks I might have earned 1s. 6d. a day, and in some weeks perhaps less.

226. Was that the only thing you were working at?-Yes. The only sort of knitting I had was veils and shawls.

227. But was knitting the only thing you were employed at that time?-That was the only thing I was ever employed at in my life.

228. Then, on an average, you earned from 5s. to 6s. a week?- Yes; or from 4s. to 5s.

229. How often were you paid?-Just when I asked for any sort of goods that were in the shop.

230. Would you go once a week or once a fortnight to the shop for payment?-Yes; perhaps I would. I just went as I was done with the work which they required.

231. Did you get a book?-No. I never kept a book.

232. How did you know how much was due to you?-I just depended on the truth of the gentlemen's statements when they added up my accounts.

233. They kept an account in a book?-Yes.

234. Was that the same with all the dealers?-Yes; all that I dealt with before the last six years.

235. Did these merchants supply you with all kinds of goods?- Only with soft goods, and tea and sugar.

236. What did you do for your provisions, such as meal and bread?-I had often to buy such things as I could get, and sell them again at half the price to anybody in the row who would take them from me.

237. Were these the goods you got from the merchants?-Yes.

238. Could you not get anything from them you wanted, except what you have mentioned?-Sometimes I would get a sixpence and sometimes a shilling, but just occasionally.

239. Was that given you as a favour?-Yes, and because they knew I really needed it. It was a mere favour.

240. Were you supporting your stepmother at that time?-No; not at that time. I had only myself to support.

241. But you had no other means of support than your knitting?- No other means at all.

242. Did you ask for money at that time?-Yes; I always asked for money, because I required it so much.

243. Was it generally on a Saturday that you were with?-I did not make any particular settlement; it was just any time that I went.

244. When you got a settlement and took home some of these soft goods, did you go to your neighbours, or to the baker's or provision dealer's shop, and ask for what you wanted in the way of food?-No; but any neighbours that knew me would take from me some of the goods I had, and perhaps give them to a country friend of theirs, and get the money for them.

245. During the last six years you have got into the way of knitting with your own wool?-Yes.

246. Where do you buy your wool, or how do you get it?-There is a lady in the town-a dressmaker and milliner-who deals very largely in hosiery.

247. What is her name?-Miss Robertson. She takes goods from me on lines which I get for my shawls and she gives me wool and cash to favour me, because she knows I have no other way of getting money.

248. What do you mean by taking goods on lines-When I sell a shawl to any hosiery merchant in the town, I get any sort of goods that are in the shop, except wool to knit with; but if I don't want the goods at the time, then the gentleman will give me a line to the amount I have to get.

249. Is that an I O U?-That used to be on them. I think there are other two letters now; but they mean all the same thing.

250. Have you any of these lines?-I have one home. I shall bring it. If I go back to the shop with the line, or send anybody back with it, the merchant's servants will serve the party who brings it with the amount.

251. They will give you full value for it?-Yes, to the full value of the lines.

252. Then Miss Robertson takes these I O U's from you, and gives you worsted for them?-Yes.

253. That worsted you knit into shawls, and these shawls you sell to the merchants, getting from them I O U's?-Yes.

254. Are you any better off under this system than you were before?-Yes. She brings home the wools, and shows me the invoice for them, and I get the wools at what she pays for them. That is much cheaper than I can purchase them for in Lerwick.

255. But you did not buy the wool under the old way of working: you got the wool supplied to you, and were paid for your work?- Yes.

256. Do you think you make more money under the present system?-Yes.

257. When you get these I O U's, you spend only part of them in purchasing worsted?-I get no worsted on them except what I get from Miss Robertson.

258. But you spend only part of them in paying Miss Robertson for worsted?-Yes; and I get part money from her for them, because they serve her just the same as money would do, in getting articles from the merchants. She favours me in that way, and enables me to support my stepmother and myself, and pay rent and taxation.

259. Do you hand all your I O U's to Miss Robertson?-No; only what I can spare.

260. You sometimes take one of them yourself to the merchant from whom you got it, and you get goods from him for it?-Yes.

261. You have more money passing through your hands now than you had formerly?-Yes. I am able now to pay my rent.

262. How did you pay your rent formerly?-I did not require it then so much. My father was alive then.

263. But you have now to pay rent?-Yes; and to support my stepmother partly.

264. Have you within the last six years asked for money instead of these lines?-Yes; I have asked almost daily for money, and I get a little.

265. When did you ask last for money?-On Saturday.

266. Who did you ask?-Mr. Sinclair.

267. What did he say?-He gave me what I asked.

268. How much was that?-I just asked 1s.

269. Did you present one of his lines?-No; I sold him a shawl, and bought goods, and got a line for the rest, and 1s. of cash.

270. How much was it altogether?-I got 10s. 6d. for the shawl.

271. And you got 1s. in cash, and 9s. 6d. in goods or in line?- Yes.

272. Did you ask for more money than that?-Not on Saturday.

273. You got all the money you wanted then?-Yes.

274. How much did you the time before?-I got 2s. 6d. then.

275. From whom?-From Mr. Sinclair.

276. How much were you selling at that time?-15s. worth, I think.

277. Was that a fortnight's work?-It was more than that; it would be about three weeks'.

[Page 6]

278. How much money did you ask that time?-I asked for 5s.

279. What was said?-There was no more money at hand at the counter at that time, and I got 2s. 6d.

280. What did you get for the 12s. 6d.?-It was some other little things I was purchasing. I don't remember what they were.

281. You did not get a line at that time?-No.

282. The things you got you really wanted?-Yes.

283. Suppose you had got 15s. in cash, would you have purchased your goods there?-Yes. Whatever wearing goods I required, I would not have purchased them anywhere else. I am quite satisfied with Mr. Sinclair's goods; but I am always needing money so much that I have always to ask it.

284. Does this system of not getting money, or being paid in goods, make you buy more dress or clothing than you would otherwise care for?-Yes; I would not need one half the clothes I get, if I could get money.

285. That is to say, you would prefer to take the money, and spend it upon food?-Yes.

286. Or lay it by?-I should not think much of laying it by, if I could only get enough to serve the present time.

287. Have you handed the I O U's to anybody else than Miss Robertson?-Yes; to lots of people.

288. For money?-Yes; for money, and for peats or fuel for the winter. My acquaintances will sometimes take a line from me to oblige me, because I have no money to give them.

289. Name one of them?-John Ridling, Burn's Lane, is one of them.

290. What would he do with it?-Mrs. Ridling would send it to the shop and purchase anything she wanted.

291. Have you known these lines passing through more hands than one before coming to the shop?-Yes; they would do that.

292. For instance, if Mrs. Ridling wanted money instead of goods at the shop, might she pass the line to somebody who would give her money for it?-No, not that I know of.

293. You said you had known the lines passing from hand to hand before going back to the shop?-Yes; sometimes they do that.

294. That is to say, if you handed a line to a person for money, that person might sell it again for money to another neighbour?-I do not know of selling the lines for money; but they might pass from one person to another in a quiet way.

295. For goods?-Yes; but not for money, so far as I know.

296. For fish?-Yes; I have got that on lines.

297. And bread?-Yes.

298. And then the party from whom the fish or bread was got would hand the line to the merchant?-Yes; and get what things suited them.

299. Is that it common thing in Lerwick?-No, it is not common; but it is the case with me.

300. Have you known any one else who has passed her lines in that way?-Yes; I have heard of some people who have taken lines from others. I know that Miss Hutchison has taken lines from people, and given them money for them. [The witness produced a line, in the following terms:

'C. W. 20.-Cr. Bearer value in goods for thirteen shillings stg. 13s. To hat, 3s. R. SINCLAIR & Co. <pr>. W.T.M. Lerwick, 5. 12. 71.']

I think the letters 'C.W.' are a private mark. It used to be I O U. The entry, 'To hat, 3s.' is an article I have got since, and there is therefore a balance of 10s. left on the line.

301. Have you any particular reason for preferring these lines to the old way of getting goods?-Yes; sometimes I can get the lines turned into cash.

302. You can turn them into money more readily?-Yes; through Miss Robertson taking them from me.

303. Are there many such lines given to people at shops?-Yes.

304. Do most of the people prefer the lines to being paid in goods?-Sometimes they don't perhaps require the articles at the time; but when they require them, they go with the lines and get them.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, Mrs. ANDRINA SIMPSON, examined.

305. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-Yes.

306. For whom do you knit?-For myself.

307. Have you always done so?-I have always done so for a good many years back.

308. Where do you purchase your wool?-I purchase it just from any person, and I spin it for myself.

309. Do you purchase it from farmers?-Yes.

310. To whom do you sell your work?-To any the merchants who will take it. I generally sold it to Mr. Spence when he was in the town, and to his sister Miss Spence since he went away.

311. Does she still deal in hosiery?-Yes.

312. How are you paid?-Generally just by goods.

313. Do you ask for money?-For the last shawl I sold I asked 2s. in money. She did not appear very willing to give it; but I got 2s. on it, and the rest in goods.

314. What was the value of the shawl?-It was 12s.

315. Did you not ask for more than 2s. upon it?-No. I did not ask for any more, because she did not wish to give any more.

316. You did not ask for the whole price of the shawl in money?- No.

317. Did you want it all in money?-I would have liked it all in money.

318. Why? What would you have done with the money if you had had it?-There is many a thing that can be done with money.

319. But had you any particular reason for wanting the money instead of the goods? Did you not want the goods?-I could have been doing at that time without the articles that I got; but I just had to take them, because I could get no more than 2s. in money on the shawl.

320. Is that the usual practice in your dealings with the merchants?-Not always. Sometimes I have seen me getting a few shillings more from her; and at other times, if she did not have a particular order for the articles, she seemed not to be willing to give any, money at all.

321. How do you square your accounts when you get goods in that way? For instance, when you sold that 12s. shawl and got the 2s. in money, did you also get so many yards of cloth?-Yes; of print.

322. At how much?-At 7d. per yard. I also got some wincey.

323. Did that balance the account exactly?-Yes.

324. You got what made exactly the 10s. worth?-Yes.

325. Do you generally take just so much cloth as makes up the value of the shawl?-Yes; generally.

326. Do you do anything else in the way of working for your living than by knitting these articles?-Yes. I am married. 327. Then knitting is an extra sort of thing with you?-Yes.

328. Have you tried any of the other shops in the town to see if they would give you money for your hosiery?-No, none for a good while back; but it is not very much that I can do at it, on account of the house-work. My husband is a shoemaker.

329. Have you ever got lines for your shawls?-No: I generally settle up for the whole in goods at the time when I sell the shawls.

330. Is that all you want to say?-Yes.

[Page 7]

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, Mrs. JEMIMA BROWN or TAIT, examined.

331. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-Yes.

332. Do you live with your parents?-Yes.

333. What is your father?-A shoemaker.

334. And you knit for your own benefit?-Yes.

335. For whom do you knit-For Mr. Robert Linklater.

336. What kind of goods do you knit?-Generally veils.

337. How much do you make in a week?-Sometimes 3s., and sometimes not so much, just according as the merchant buys the articles we make.

338. Is it his worsted you work?-Yes.

339. And he pays you so much for the work you put upon it?- Yes.

340. What is the value of the work you put upon the veil?-The last veils I made I got 9d. apiece for them.

341. Does what you get for them depend upon the size of the veils?-A good deal. These were the largest veils of all.

342. Then you will sometimes make four or five of them in a week?-I just made three of these. They were large ones.

343. How often do you get settled with for your work?-We have a pass-book, and the merchant lets it go on until he thinks we have got goods up to the value we have knitted for. He then makes up the book. [Produces pass-book in name of Harriet Brown, and another in name of Amelia Brown.] These are my sisters. One book served for the whole of us.

344. Did any one tell you to come here and bring those books?- No; I just heard what was to be done, and I came of my own accord.

345. These books contain the goods which you have purchased from Mr. Linklater?-Yes.

346. The last one begins on April 16; 1870, and is added up in January 1871. The amount at your credit is £5, 5s. 2d.: what does that mean?-It means, that we have knitted articles to that amount, and we have also got goods of that value. That was a square balance. The articles we have knitted bringing out that sum, are entered in a separate account at the end of the same book.

347. Is that account the same as appears in Mr. Linklater's books?-Yes.

348. It is-April 16, By balance at account, 10s. 111/2d.; May 5, twenty veils at 1s., £1: are these entered at the time you hand them back?-Yes; I took twenty veils to Mr. Linklater at that time.

349. The next entry is-September 6, twenty veils at 1s., £1. I thought you said you got 9d. for the largest veils you made?-Yes, for the largest size; but the veils I took in then were finer work, and the price for them was 1s. each.