Chapter V: Excerpt From Report of Mr. Peterkin, General Inspector of Board (46)

12,092. But he can do so still, only the price is now fixed according to the current rate at the end of the season?-He cannot do so exactly in every place in Shetland. The price is not understood to be known until the fish are sold, which, I think, makes the fishermen scarcely so persevering in fishing as they were when they did know the price. I think when the price was fixed at the beginning of the season, they persevered even more than they do now.

12,093. Was that system given up before you ceased to be in the business?-No, it continued after that. The thing which made the price to be fixed at the beginning was, that other buyers than the native buyers came into the market, and there was more competition.

12,094. Was there much more competition at that time than there is now?-In buying fish green there was more competition, but now the competition is very little.

12,095. How do you account for that?-Where factors have the power, it is understood that the men must fish either to the factor or the proprietor.

12,096. Do you think the factors have more power now than they had in those times?-I rather think they have in some cases.

12,097. In those times was it not the rule that the fishermen were always bound to deliver the fish to the proprietor, or to some one appointed by him?-It was.

12,098. So that, in that case, there could not be competition?- There were several people who had the chance of buying the fish at that time; but, of course, they could not get their summer fish. They might get fish during the spring season in small quantities, but that was all.

12,099. I thought you were speaking with reference to the summer fishing, when you said that in those times there was a great deal of competition, and that the price was fixed at the beginning of the season?-Yes; that was the case about thirty years ago but within the last twenty years it has fallen away.

12,100. But even at the time you speak of, were not the fishermen very frequently bound to deliver their fish to the proprietors or their factors, or tacksmen?-They were bound in some places, but not so much in our part of the country as elsewhere.

12,101. The men were not so much bound in the district that you speak of when the price was fixed at the beginning of the season?-The price was fixed in many cases, but not in all.

12,102. Then the fish in those times were bought from the fishermen green?-Yes.

12,103. And it was the price for green fish that was so fixed?- Yes. The proprietor never fixed the price. It would only be fixed by a buyer or it merchant.

12,104. Do you think it would be advantageous to return to that practice of fixing the price at the beginning of the season for green fish?-Where fish are bought green, I think it would.

12,105. Would it not be better for all parties if the fish were always bought green, and cured by a professional curer?-I don't think it would. There are some of the fishermen who can cure the fish as well as any professional curer.

12,106. Are the fishermen in your neighbourhood generally supplied with vats and other implements for curing fish?-Most of them who cure for themselves have implements of their own. They only require their supplies, such as lines, and salt, and food from the merchant.

12,107. I suppose these independent fishermen who cure their own fish, frequently take their lines and salt and materials for curing from you?-They get them anywhere they choose. They have much more liberty in that way in our parish than, I think, they have in any part of Shetland.

12,108. Would you say that curing by the men themselves is practised to it greater extent in your parish than anywhere else in Shetland?-Much more. Since the men began to cure their own fish they have got on well, and they have got much out of debt, and become more independent.

12,109. When did they begin to cure their fish?-It is about fifteen or sixteen years since it came to be practised to any extent; but there are it good many of them who do not cure their own fish yet. I should say there are about one half of them who sell their fish green.

12,110. Do those who sell their fish green engage at the beginning of the season with Garriock & Co.?-They sell their fish to them. They do not have any price stated at the beginning, but are settled with according to the current price at the end of the season.

12,111. Do you find that the men who are so engaged to sell their fish according to the current price at the end of the season, are less frequent customers at your [Page 298] shop than those who cure their own fish?-Yes; that must be a consequence.

12,112. Why?-Because it is understood that their supplies must come from the place where their goods are going. They are a sort of bound; they are not independent; but if they were curing for themselves, then they would have their freedom to go anywhere they chose.

12,113. Do you mean that the men who are paid according to the current price at the end of the season want to get their supplies on credit?-Of course they must get their supplies on credit at the place where they are giving the proceeds of their work.

12,114. Is there any other reason why they deal with the fish-curer for their supplies? Does a man who has money in his hand go to the fish-curer by preference for his supplies, as well as a man who has not?-Some men would go there even although they had the money, and get an advance on credit.

12,115. Do the men think it an advantage to get their supplies on credit?-Some men do, even although they paid a higher price for them.

12,116. And they might at the same time have money in the bank?-Yes.

12,117. Do you think that is a common notion among the men?- No, I don't think it is a common notion.

12,118. Are the men who act in that way men to whom you would yourself give credit?-Yes. I have sometimes given them credit for their supplies, such as salt and lines, and anything they wanted.

12,119. Would you consider yourself safe in giving them credit, even if they were engaged to deliver their green fish to Messrs. Garriock & Co.?-No. I would not like to deal with the men who sell their green fish, because I would run the risk of not getting my money from them.

12,120. But you say the men will take advances from the curer during the summer, even although they are quite able to pay for what they are getting?-Some men will do so from their natural disposition; but, as a rule, if the skipper goes to a certain place for his supplies, it is considered that his men must go there too.

12,121. How is that?-The skipper, of course, has some control over his crew on shore as well as at sea.

12,122. Do you think the skipper sometimes advises or persuades his men to go to a particular shop?-He might; I cannot say that he would not, but that is not known to me.

12,123. Do you suppose there is any understanding that it is part of the skipper's duty to guide his men to the right shop?-I don't think the skipper is tempted in any way to do that. I don't know that he derives any benefit from it. There may be a premium given to a skipper for being the best fisher; but I don't think the skippers are tampered with to control their crews as to the shops where they are to deal.

12,124. Who has the appointment of the skipper?-The crew may choose a man for themselves.

12,125. Have you noticed, as a rule, that the skippers deal at the fish merchant's shop more commonly than the men?-No. I think there is no difference in that way, so far as I have seen.

12,126. Then the only reason you can suggest for men who sell their green fish dealing at the shop of the curer, is because there is a sort of understanding among them that they shall take their supplies there?-Yes. In fact, they would not get them anywhere else because they could not get the money to pay for them. The man who buys the fish has the first chance of the men's money; while we who don't buy the fish have only a second or a third chance of being paid. We would not care to supply men in that way, because we don't consider ourselves safe.

12,127. But in giving supplies to the men who cure their own fish, you think you have some security?-Certainly.

12,128. What is that security?-The men are more independent, and if they sell their fish south, they are sure to get their money at the time.

12,129. But you told me that these men are under some kind of obligation to sell their fish to Garriock & Co.?-There is some understanding of that kind, but they are not bound.

12,130. They always give them the preference?-Yes.

12,131. And you have been unable to buy their fish from them?- Yes. Even if I were to offer a somewhat higher price, I know that I would not get them.

12,132. If that is the state of matters with them, then you have not much more security for your advances in their case than in the case of the other men?-I have security. There is no fear for them.

12,133. May they not be taking supplies all the season from the merchant's shop?-We have a good chance of knowing where they get their supplies; and men like that, who are independent, are not likely to run away with the money when they get paid for their fish. They are safe enough to pay their accounts.

12,134. Then your reliance is very much on the character of the men themselves?-Certainly.

12,135. Do you find that the men who cure their own fish are of a more reliable character, and more to be depended upon, than the others?-Generally they are, and they are more persevering.

12,136. I suppose Messrs. Garriock & Co. know pretty well what men deal at your shop, and what men deal at their own?-I think they do.

12,137. Have you ever obtained from them, or through them, payment of any accounts that have been run up by men at your shop?-No. I would not like to apply to them for that. I think they would rather pay the money to the men themselves.

12,138. Do the men who deal with you upon accounts generally keep pass-books?-Some of them do.

12,139. Do you find any irregularity or difficulty in settling their accounts, in consequence of the want of pass-books?-I find none; but, of course, if a man understands accounts, and keeps a pass-book, I find it more agreeable to settle with him. The more ignorant a man is, the more trouble you have in settling with him.

12,140. Are there any other buyers of dried fish in that district than Garriock & Co.?-There is no other person who buys them in large quantities.

12,141. There may be small buyers, but I suppose they don't have much chance in the circumstances you have already described?- No; they don't have a chance.

12,142. How do these small buyers get any fish all?-There are very few who buy dried fish, and who have the chance of getting much. They might get few tons in some years, but not as a regular thing.

12,143. Is there any public-house in the parish of Walls?-No.

12,144. Or any one who has a grocer's licence?-No, there has not been one for some years.

12,145. You don't hold a grocer's licence for the sale of spirits?- No.

12,146. Where do people in that parish get their supplies of liquor?-There are two licensed houses in the next parish of Sandsting-one at Tresta, and one the Bridge of Walls, on the Sandsting side.

12,147. Have the people to go there for all their supplies of that kind?-Yes.

12,148. I believe they are a very temperate people?-I think they are.

12,149. Have you ever been asked to purchase second-hand goods in small quantities by your neighbours, by people coming from a distance?-No.

12,150. Have you not been asked to buy small packet of tea across the counter?-Never.

12,151. Do you know whether the people in your district sometimes get their supplies of tea from those who have got the tea in exchange for hosiery in Lerwick?-No; there is no practice of that kind among us.

12,152. If it happens, it will be an exceptional thing so far as you know?-I never knew any case of the kind.

12,153. When you were engaged in the fish business yourself, were you ever asked to advance the rent of any fisherman from whom you had bought fish?-I might sometimes advance money to a fisherman to help [Page 299] him to pay his rent, but I cannot say that I was ever pressed either by a factor or a landlord on that point.

12,154. When you gave that advance, it was given directly to the fisherman?-Yes, and voluntarily.

12,155. Do you ever make money advances now for that purpose, or for any other purpose, to your customers who have accounts with you?-I have not done so within the last two or three years; in fact, most of the men don't need it; they can get on without it.

12,156. The accounts incurred to you, and which are settled for at the end of the year, are paid in cash, I suppose, for the most part?-Yes, in cash.

12,157. The only things you get in part payment, and which are entered on the other side of the account, are eggs and sometimes butter?-There is not much butter. The greater part of my trade is done in cash.

12,158. But eggs and hosiery may sometimes be entered in the account?-Not much hosiery. I don't do much in that way.

12,159. You said it might amount to £50, but the transactions, I suppose, are settled at the time?-Yes. In some years I do not do the half of that, but would cover my transactions in that way in any year. I remember some years ago buying three or four times as much, but now the knitters all go to Lerwick with their work.

12,160. What hosiery you do buy is all settled for at the time?- Yes, it is paid right off there and then. The articles are offered to us, and if we are satisfied with the quality and the price we take them, the same as in any other money transaction.

12,161. Do the accounts which you settle at November or December generally amount to some pounds apiece?-Yes; with those fishermen to whom we have advanced.

12,162. Are these accounts generally paid in cash which the men have got from Messrs. Garriock & Co. for the sale of their fish to them?-Yes.

12,163. I suppose you take good care to bring as many of your accounts as possible to settlement immediately after the settling time with Garriock & Co.?-Yes; that is our usual practice.

Lerwick, January 24, 1872, JOHN TWATT, examined.

12,164. You are a merchant at Voe, in the parish of Walls?-I am.

12,165. How far is that from Bayhall?-About five minutes' walk.

12,166. Have you heard the evidence of Mr. Georgeson?-I have.

12,167. Is your business much of the same description as his?- It is exactly the same. There is no difference between them whatever.

12,168. It is conducted with the same class of customers?- Exactly.

12,169. Are your settlements made at the same season?-Yes.

12,170. Have you ever been in the fish-curing business yourself?- Yes. For the last two years I have done little in the winter season. I get no fish in summer.

12,171. Do you buy the fish green?-Yes; in winter.

12,172. Are you ready to buy them cured if you could get them?- Yes. I have often offered for fish, but I never could get them. I have made the offer publicly to all the boats.

12,173. In what way did you intimate that offer publicly?-I just said to the men that I would buy their fish, and give as high a price for them as another. I have said that if I did not give them 10s. more, I would not give them 10s. less; but I could not get them.

12,174. What did they say?-They said nothing, but they never gave me the fish.

12,175. Did you mean by the offer you made to them that you would give them a price fixed at the beginning of the season?- No; I could not fix a price then. I meant that I would give them as much as any other fish-buyer who was in the trade.

12,176. Did you mean that you would give them that price at the end of the season when they delivered their cured fish?-yes.

12,177. Did you make a special offer to any particular crews?-I have said to some of the men to tell their skippers what I had offered. The skipper was not in at the time, but I told one of the men that I would give him 10s. more than any other one if he would give me his fish.

12,178. Have you reason to believe that the man carried your message to the skipper?-Yes; I know he did carry it.

12,179. Did you get any answer to it?-No.

12,180. Then how did you know that the man had carried your message to the skipper?-Because I asked the skipper afterwards about it; and he said he had been engaged at the beginning of the season to deliver his fish to another party.

12,181. Were these fish to be cured by himself?-Yes.

12,182. Are contracts made so early as that with men who cure their own fish?-In some cases they are.

12,183. Was the other party in this case Messrs. Garriock & Co.?-I don't think it was. I would rather mention the name privately. [Hands in the name of a fish-curing firm.]

12,184. Are these gentlemen you have named extensive purchasers of cured fish in your district?-I believe they would buy all they could get.

12,185. Perhaps they have the same difficulty which you experience in buying fish?-I suppose they have.

12,186. Do you carry on any business with men who are engaged to fish in the ling fishing for Messrs. Garriock & Co.?-Yes. I supply the crews with what they require for the fishing, such as lines, and hooks, and tar.

12,187. Are they not expected to take their supplies from the shop of the merchant with whom they engage?-Sometimes it is much handier for them to get them from me than to go to Reawick for them; and when I know the crew will pay me, I supply them to them.

12,188. Your shop is at a great distance from Reawick, or any of the larger fishing stations?-Yes.

12,189. Do you make these supplies to the men to a large extent?-No, not to a large extent; only to a few boats. It is only to the crews that I make these supplies, because the company accounts are paid first at the time of settlement, and I look to the skipper to see that I am paid.

12,190. Then a company account of that kind is a safer thing than an account with one of the men?-Yes.

12,191. Do the fishermen themselves, as individuals, get supplies from you on credit while they are engaged in the ling fishing?- Yes.

12,192. Do they not go more frequently to Reawick, or to Messrs. Garriock & Co.'s other stores, for supplies?-Yes. There are certain parties that I won't give them to.

12,193. Do you furnish the principal part of the supplies to those men in your neighbourhood who fish for Garriock & Co.?-No. Garriock & Co. do that themselves. It is only when they cannot get over to Garriock a Co.'s stores, or when Garriock & Co. might be out of any article they want, or something like that, that they come to me. They only come to me for what they want when they cannot do better.

12,194. Is it the case that some of them come to you for supplies because Reawick is so far away?-Sometimes that is the case in the busy season. When the fishing is going on they are glad to go to the nearest place, and get a few lines or hooks, or what they want but when they do go to Reawick they take as much from there as possible.

12,195. Are they expected to do so?-I rather think they are.

12,196. Do you understand that from the men themselves, or is it merely your own inference from the way in which they act?-It is my own opinion.

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12,197. Have you heard anything from the men which has confirmed that opinion?-No, I could not say that I have.

12,198. Do you find that the connection of the fishermen with a large company of that kind, which buys their fish, and which acts as factor upon the estates where the fishermen live, interferes with the extension of your own business?-I cannot say that it does.

12,199. Have you not told me already that you have not been able to buy fish from the men, although you wanted to do so?-Yes; it interferes with me in that way, so that I cannot get the fish.

12,200. But you don't suppose the men would deal at your shop, in preference to the shop of the merchant who employs them, even although they could do so?-If they were fishing to me, I believe they would deal with me the same as with any other one. I cannot quite agree with what Mr. Georgeson said about that. I think there is a little bribe which the skippers get for seeing that the men go to the shop. I think it is an understood thing between the skipper and the fishbuyer, that he (the skipper) is to get something extra.

12,201. Does not the skipper usually get a fee?-No; he is generally supposed to get the same as the men, but I rather think he gets a little more.

12,202. You say that that serves as a bribe: for what purpose?-I leave that to you.

12,203. Do you suppose it has the effect of making him influence the men to take their supplies from the merchant's shop?-I leave that to you to judge.

12,204. Do you suppose that the skipper, in general, does guide his men in that direction?-I rather think he does in some cases.

12,205. Have you known any special instance that you could point to, where that was done?-There was one boat's crew with whom I was settling for a small company account. I asked them why they did not give me their fish as we were next-door neighbours, or something like that; and the men all got up against the skipper, and said they were quite willing to give me their fish, only that the skipper had gone away and made an agreement for them before.

12,206. That was for the sale of their fish?-Yes, for the sale of the dry fish. I would have bought them at the same price as Garriock & Co, or any other one.

12,207. But that was not a case in which the men were induced to go for supplies to the fish-curer?-They did not require to go there for their supplies unless they had liked, because they could have got their supplies from me if they had said they would give me their fish at the end of the season. If they had done that I was willing to supply them with money, or meal, or anything they wanted.

12,208. These were men who were curing their own fish?-Yes.

12,209. But have you known any cases in which men who were engaged to fish during the whole season, and to deliver their fish green to Garriock & Co., were induced by the skipper to go to Reawick for their supplies?-I cannot say that I have.

12,210. Is it not the fact that men who live near you do go to Reawick for supplies although it is much farther away?-Yes.

12,211. And although it is inconvenient?-Yes, it is inconvenient. They could do much better by coming to my shop, which is next door to them, and they could get as good articles at the same price as they can at Reawick.

12,212. How far is it from your place to Reawick?-I think it is about 10 or 12 miles.

12,213. When the men go there for meal or other supplies, are these supplies brought across the country?-Sometimes they are brought by boats and sometimes round by the rocks.

12,214. When a crew cure their own fish, is it the rule that the sale must be of the whole catch of the boat, or can each man sell his fish separately?-No, they must all be sold together; and they generally go to the place where the skipper or the majority of the men want them to go.

12,215. Do you think the skipper has a considerable influence in that matter?-I think he has.

12,216. Of course, where the men are fishing independently, and curing their own fish, there is no arrangement with the merchant for the skipper's fee?-No; that is an understood thing between the skipper and the fish-buyer, and I don't think the men know anything at all about it. There is no fee at the ling fishing, and the men can go to whom they please. They are different there from what they are in the Faroe fishing.

12,217. Do you buy any hosiery?-I buy it little, and I pay for it in the same way which Mr. Georgeson explained. It is all done by barter.

12,218. Do you also pay for eggs and butter by goods?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 24, 1872, JOHN JOHNSTON, examined.

12,219. You are a merchant at Bridge of Walls, in Sandsting?-I am.

12,220. You are a son of Mr. George Johnston, merchant at Tresta?-Yes.

12,221. Is that in the same parish, but at some distance from your place?-Yes; I think it is about eight miles away.

12,222. Your father is in delicate health, and has not been able to come to-day?-Yes. He has not been able to come in consequence of the rough day.

12,223. Were you concerned in his business before you set up business on your own account?-Yes.

12,224. You are acquainted with his business at Tresta as well as with your own?-Yes.

12,225. Have you heard the evidence which has been given by Mr. Georgeson to-day?-Yes.

12,226. Is your business and that of your father similar in character to Mr. Georgeson's?-Yes, it is just the same only we have a spirit licence in addition. My father has a public-house licence, and I have a grocer's licence.

12,227. Then you supply what spirits may be wanted in the parishes of Walls and Sandsting?-Yes. I suppose we supply the principal part of them; but the people may go to Lerwick or any other place for them if they choose.

12,228. Your dealings in that way, I suppose, are always settled for in cash?-Yes, always in cash.

12,229. Is the bulk of your other transactions paid for in cash too?-No; there is a good deal of credit given.

12,230. To what class of customers do you give credit?-To the fishermen.

12,231. Have you any fishermen who are employed in your own boats?-We have no boats fishing to us.

12,232. Do you buy cured fish or green fish from the fishermen?- No, we don't buy any. My father has one vessel of his own that goes to the Faroe fishing. He had three about five or six years ago.

12,233. Where do you get the men for these Faroe vessels?-They are very much scattered. Sometimes, we get part from Walls, and sometimes part from Sandsting.

12,234. Do these men take supplies for themselves and their families during the summer from your father's shops?-Yes.

12,235. And they have an account which is settled at the end of the fishing season?-Yes.

12,236. Do you buy no fish at all?-No. My father has an interest in two boats that fish on the home banks off Shetland. That is the cod fishing; they don't go to the Faroe fishing. They are smacks, but they are small.

12,237. That bank is between Shetland and Orkney?-Yes.

12,238. Exclusive of the men who are engaged in the Faroe fishing, have you or your father many accounts with fishermen living in the district?-Not very [Page 301] many. We have some, but they are principally with men who go south, and we supply their families during the time they are away. They go principally to Liverpool, and sometimes to Greenock, and enter the merchant service. They remain away for a year or two, and then come home for a winter.

12,239. Do these men send allotment notes home to their wives?- Not often. They generally remit money home at the end of the voyage.

12,240. Then you have no security at all for your advances, except the personal credit of the men?-None at all.

12,241. There may be some stock on their farms occasionally?- Of course they have a little.

12,242. Have you any accounts with fishermen on the ling fishing at home?-Not many. There is no ling fishing carried on close to where I live.

12,243. But a few of your neighbours are engaged in it?-No. I think there are none of them engaged in it.

12,244. Is it the same with your father's place?-Yes; there is no ling fishing there at all.

12,245. Have you any accounts with fishermen engaged in the Faroe fishing for other merchants than yourselves?-We have some, but not many.

12,246. I suppose these Faroe men generally open accounts with the merchants in whose smacks they are engaged?-Yes, generally.

12,247. Have you anything to say in addition to what was stated by Mr. Georgeson and Mr. Twatt in their evidence?-The only thing I would like to say is, that I think all the men have complete liberty to engage anywhere they choose, or to go to the fishing or south as they like. I don't think any compulsion is used.

12,248. I don't think any of the previous witnesses said there was any compulsion in that way. Have you ever endeavoured to purchase cured fish?-No.

12,249. Why? Did you never think of it?-No.

12,250. Was that because you considered you would have no chance of getting the fish to buy?-I could hardly say that; but I never thought much about it.

Lerwick, January 24, 1872, ARCHIBALD ABERNETHY, examined.

12,251. Are you a shopkeeper at Whiteness, in the parish of Tingwall?-I am.

12,252. In what goods do you deal?-Principally in eggs and butter.

12,253. Do you deal in groceries and a little in soft goods?-Yes.

12,254. Do you pay for eggs and butter generally in goods?-Yes, generally; but I very often pay money for eggs too.

12,255. Do you make a difference on the price, according as they are paid for in money or in goods?-Yes; there is a difference of 1/2d. per dozen, as a general rule.

12,256. Have you ever bought fish?-Yes, a little.

12,257. Do you buy them dry or green?-I buy them green, and cure them myself.

12,258. Do you own any boats?-No. Occasionally I may hire a boat and a crew for a month or two about this season of the year for the spring fishing, before they go to Faroe.

12,259. Do you fix the price of your fish at the time they are delivered, or do you settle with the men for them according to the price at the end of the season?-They will scarcely agree to fix a price at the time they are delivered, in case the price of fish may rise during the year, and then they expect to get a better price for them. They prefer to wait until the fish go to the market, and then they know what the price is.

12,260. Is that what is done when you buy the fish green?-Yes.

12,261. In that case, you settle with them according to the current price at the end of the year?-Yes. I generally guarantee to give them that price.

12,262. I thought you said you had only one boat for a short time at this season?-I sometimes have one or two boats for a short time at this season, and that is generally the agreement I make with them.

12,263. Don't you buy the fish promiscuously, as it were, from any man who comes and offers them to you?-Yes.

12,264. Do you do that only in the winter and spring, or also in the summer?-It is only in the winter and spring that I have the chance of doing it. There are scarcely any fish got in our quarter in the summer time, because the fishermen are generally engaged in the Faroe fishing then.

12,265. Are none of them engaged in the ling fishing?-None at all.

12,266. Do you keep accounts for supplies that you make to fishermen?-Yes, a few.

12,267. Are these men engaged in the Faroe or the ling fishing?- Principally in the Faroe fishing.

12,268. Do any of these men get their whole supplies from you?- None of them. I think they are generally supplied from the shops of the owners of the vessels they are in.

12,269. Do they get the most of their supplies from there?-I think so.

12,270. Do these men live near your shop, or are they living at a distance from you?-They live pretty near me. Some of them are near neighbours, and others live about three or four miles away.

12,271. How many men of that kind may there be who deal occasionally with you, but who get the bulk of their supplies from the parties for whom they are fishing?-I should fancy there may be about forty or fifty of them.

12,272. Have most of these men got accounts?-Generally they have, but not to a great extent; perhaps for a few shillings.

12,273. You understand they are supplied chiefly by the merchant for whom they ship?-Yes, generally.

12,274. Would it not be more convenient for them to get their supplies nearer their own homes?-I don't know that it would make much difference. It is not very far from our place to Lerwick. I think it is only about eight or nine miles, and the people generally are in the town every now and again with hosiery and things of that kind.

12,275. Who are the merchants with whom most of the men engage for the Faroe fishing?-I think the principal parties are Mr. Leask, and Messrs. Hay & and Messrs. Harrison & Sons.

12,276. Do the people generally carry home their meal and provisions from Lerwick when they buy meal there?-A good deal of it comes in that way; but it is a very common thing, when the men are going to Faroe, for them to bring the smack round to Whiteness and leave a boll or two of meal at their houses there before they go away.

12,277. What prices do you pay for the fish caught in spring and winter?-From 6s. 6d. to 7s. We are paying 7s. just now for cod. There are very few ling caught.

12,278 What is the price for the small fish?-It is 4s. 6d. for the smallest and then there are different prices from that upwards until we come to the big size.

12,279. What quantity of fish will you get in that way from a boat's crew in the course of a winter and spring?-I really don't know. I don't get them all. They may come to me with a few cwts. perhaps, and perhaps go to Scalloway or anywhere else with the rest. They are quite at liberty during the winter, so far as I know, to go anywhere they like where they can get the best price. When they come to me they generally take what goods they want, and if there is a balance over they usually get it in cash.

12,280. When they come with fish in that way, I suppose you generally ask them what they want after fixing the price?-They know the price before they come with them, and they generally want some things out of the shop. If they do not, then they get the cash.

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12,281. Do you weigh the fish?-Yes, we weigh them in presence of the men.

12,282. Is not the first thing you do after that to see what goods the people want?-Very seldom. I just ask them if they are wanting any goods, and then they buy them; but they sometimes take the whole price in money, and sometimes they settle previous accounts with fish which they bring in that way. In winter that is generally the way in which they settle their accounts with me.

12,283. Are the accounts which the men run up in summer generally settled by the sale of their winter fish?-Yes; that is the way in which the thing is done in our quarter.

12,284. How many tons of dry fish would you be able to sell from that kind of trade?-Perhaps three or four tons, or the like of that. It is not carried on to any great extent.

12,285. Do you sell these fish at what is called the current price?-No; I just take my chance. I get them dried perhaps in April or May, and send them south.

12,286. Can you sell them earlier than the large fish sales of the year?-Yes. The spring fish are all dry by April or May.

12,287. Is the price of cured fish generally higher early in the season than it is in September, when the large sales take place?-I don't know; the price is very fluctuating.

12,288. Are you aware that the current price this year for ling was £23 per ton?-Yes; but I am not aware of that price having been paid for any of the small fish such as I am speaking of.

12,289. What did you manage to sell your fish for last year?-I sent them principally to Leith, and I got about £16 per ton for them on an average, after deducting expenses. I do not know the price at which the fish were actually sold, but that is what I realized. I sent them to an agent in Leith, and that was my return.

12,290. Do you suppose that any of the men that you bought fish from would get as much as £5 from you in the course of the winter and spring for their fish?-I don't think they would.

12,291. Might one crew get as much as that?-Yes, more than that; or if they were going to the spring fishing also, they would get perhaps £4 or £5 each man for the big cod. I paid more than that per man last year, when they had been both at the winter and spring fishing.

12,292. I suppose most of that would be settled for by the men taking the goods?-No; I think three-fourths of it would be settled for in cash. That would not be so in every case; but in some cases more than three-fourths would be paid in cash.

Lerwick, January 24, 1872, LEWIS F.U. GARRIOCK, examined.

12,293. You are a partner of the firm of Garriock & Co., general merchants and fish-curers at Reawick?-I am.

12,294. You have prepared a statement which you wish to appear as part of your evidence?-Yes.

12,295. Is that statement correct?-It is, to the best of my knowledge.

[The witness then handed in the following statement:-]

'I am a partner of the firm of Garriock & Co. general merchants and fish-curers at Reawick.

'Mr. Umphray, the senior of the firm, and myself, are proprietors of land. Mr. Umphray, my younger brother, and I, are joint factors on the estate of Dr. Scott of Melby.

'I am trustee for the proprietors of the Burra Isles.

'Our general store for all sorts of goods is at Reawick. We have, besides, two small shops or general stores, one in the Island of Foula where there are about forty families, and the other at Sandness, where there are about seventy-five families.

'We engage our fishermen and servants from the district of country comprising the parishes of Weisdale, Aithsting, Sandsting, Walls, Sandness, and Foula, with a few from districts beyond Tingwall, Burra, etc.

'We cured last season the fish from ten smacks fishing at Faroe, Iceland, etc., and five smaller vessels prosecuting the fishing in the neighbourhood of our own and the Orkney Islands. There are other owners interested in some of these vessels, but we engaged the crews on shares; and at the end of the season, when the value of the fish was realized, we accounted with owners and men for their proportions. The gross value will be about . . . £4600 0 0 The cost of bait, salt-curing, etc., . . £650 0 0 The cost of biscuit, coals on owners' account, 250 0 0 Proportion paid crew individually, . . 2200 0 0 Proportion paid owners, 1500 0 0 £4600 0 0

'The fishermen's proportion is paid to each of them in cash, under deduction of any provisions and articles of clothing for themselves, and provisions, etc., supplied to their families during the season, so far as they have supplied themselves from us; but they are under no obligation to take such advance from us and can, if they choose buy their articles from any shopkeeper, either for cash (which many of them have spare) or on credit. A few of the men can do without advances, having spare money; but the fishing could not be carried on if we were not to supply them, especially as regards the lads in their first and second year.

'In years when the fishing is not remunerative merchants making those advances lose heavily in bad debts.

'I have gone carefully over the accounts with the crews of two smacks, and produce an abstract of the men's accounts, which shows that, as respects one of them in 1870, we accounted to them for £427,19s. 2d., of which they had from us for lines, hooks, and provisions on board, £71, 7s. 9d.; clothing, and supplies of meal, etc., to their families, £114, 14s. 5d.; and in cash, £239, 17s. The other crew, in 1870, had, in lines, hooks, and provisions, £81, 7s. 11d.; goods, £129, 0s. 8d.; and in cash, £374, 13s. 6d. The same crew, in 1871, in lines, provisions, etc., £63, 3s. 4d.; goods, £67, 7s.; cash, £198, 9s. 7d. Looking at the last two years as regards our fishermen in smacks, it appears they have had considerably more than half their gross shares paid them in cash.

'We would, as merchants, greatly prefer a cash system, payment being made upon the fish being delivered, the same as we do to English smacks fishing for us at it contract price-and we derive about one-third of our cure from this source. But I believe were such a mode attempted it would lead to fixed wages, and would end in loss to both men and owners, and a great falling off in this branch of the fishery.

'BOATS.-About one-fourth of our cure last year was from open boats-six-oared boats at far haaf, and four-oared boats at home haaf. About 63 tons of these are from crews who cure their own fish, and deliver at one time, at the end of the curing season. The remaining 71 tons are delivered fresh every day, as landed at our stations. Those who cure their own fish, whether they have advances of salt, meal, etc., from us or not, are at perfect liberty to treat with and sell to any merchant they can get the best price from when their fish are ready. Their boats and gear are all their own. The understanding about those delivered fresh is, that we pay not less than the current rate of the country. These men, as well as the others, own their boats and gear. The peculiarities of their situation make this mode of delivering in a fresh state a necessity. At two of the stations we receive from in that way; and we prefer it, although the fish should [Page 303] cost us higher than those cured by the men themselves, as we can make a much better article, having skilled men and better appliances. To show that our boat fishers do see more than a pound at settlement, I take the liberty to hand you herewith an abstract of my settlement last and previous month with the men at two stations in Walls, by which it appears that 36 men employed at far haaf, and 34 men at home haaf, had value in fish, £829, 19s. 1d. Our supplies in boats, lines, salt, meal, and other goods, was £29, 0s. 81/2d.; and I paid them in cash £600, 18s. 41/2d. I have not access to some of the station books; but, from an abstract of my last year's settlement at one of these stations, there was placed to credit of the men for fish, work, curing, etc., £655, 0s. 6d., which was thus disposed of: '1st. To account of arrears of advances of meal, etc., from previous years, £71 12 7 '2d. Fishing material, meal, goods, and cash from storekeeper during year, 270 7 2 '3d. Cash at settlement, 313 0 9

'It is not always so; this same island for three years, 1867-69, suffered severely from the crops being blasted, and the fishing of 1868 proving a failure (each fisherman's earnings for the whole year only amounting to about £3). We supplied them with meal during these years, at the end of which they were due us £228, 19s. 9d., besides some arrears of rent to Dr. Scott. All this is now cleared off, unless some three or four individuals; and the more provident have a good few pounds saved.

'In settling with our men, the whole crew, both as respects smacks and boats, are brought in together, and the statement of the division is gone over carefully. Afterwards each man comes separately, and every item of his account read over, or if a pass-book is kept (which is very common) it is made up. Copies of the account are given in every case when desired. I think our men are perfectly satisfied with the present system.

'The tenants on the Melby estate are perfectly free to earn their living as they choose; and it is the same as regards Mr. Umphray's tenants (who number 75) and my own. On going over the roll of Mr. Umphray's tenants, I observe there are only 17 fishing to my firm (some of them only part of the season), and of my tenants only 4.

'It is the exception, not the rule, for our fishermen to be in debt to us. Of the 70 men representing the sixteen crews of which I have given particulars, all had money to get, with the exception of six, who are due us balances to the amount of £33, 2s.

'We employed last year 40 beach boys, from 13 to 17 years of age. All had cash to get at settlement, and none are in advance on the coming season.

'HOSIERY.-We take hosiery in barter for any sort of goods required, including meal and provisions. We have found this branch of trade uniformly a losing one but it is convenient for our customers-families who occupy their spare time from farm work in knitting plain articles-to get such exchanged; and it would put them much about if we were to give it up, being so far from Lerwick, and the neighbouring country shops only taking such things as they have an outlet for. A good many of the girls go to town, perhaps once in the year, with their hosiery.

'EGGS.-We take in eggs in the same way, but pay cash readily when asked.

'We have only one price in our stores for goods, whether sold for cash or barter.

'My firm has no separate account for the wife, and with other members of the family, unless when such are working or fishing for themselves.'

12,296. You say in your statement that Mr. Umphray and yourself are proprietors of land: is that in the district in which your business is carried on?-Mr. Umphray is a proprietor of land there. His rental is somewhere between £300 and £400, and the number of his tenants is between 70 and 80.

12,297. What is the rental and the number of tenants on the Melby estate?-The rental is about £1200, and there are nearly 300 tenants; but I cannot give the exact number.

12,298. Do most of the tenants on these estates fish for you in summer?-There are more of them who fish for us than for any other.

12,299. Do you think all who are engaged in the ling fishing fish for you?-By no means; but I should say that fully three-fourths of them do.

12,300. You say in your statement that you are trustee for the proprietors of the Burra Isles: are they the Misses Scott of Scalloway?-Yes. Mrs. Spence and Miss Scott.

12,301. Are you aware that some complaints were made by the inhabitants of the Burra Isles, a few years ago, to the agent for the proprietors in Edinburgh?-Yes, there was a letter sent to him.

12,302. In consequence of these complaints, did you make an investigation and report?-Yes; I went to the island to inquire into the matter. The prayer of the petition was, that the proprietors should be more careful, when another lease was given, not to allow certain things which the tenants complained of to be inserted in it.

12,303. At that time was a new lease in contemplation?-No; there were two or three years to run of the old lease.

12,304. Was the lease of Burra, under which the islands were then held by Messrs. Hay, granted during your management?-No; it had been granted some years before.

12,305. A copy of the letter to Mr. Mack which occasioned the inquiry, was sent to you at the time?-Yes.

12,306. The first complaint in that letter was, 'That every householder is bound to pay £1 sterling annually for every son who, being a common fisherman, ships in any Faroe-going fishing smack, not belonging to the lessees or the agent of the North Sea Co.; otherwise he must remove from the island, or expel any such son from his home.' I have not seen the lease in question, but did you find that that was a well-founded complaint?-There was nothing of the kind stated in the lease. My understanding of the complaint is, that when the lease was taken by Messrs. Hay, they entered into an arrangement with the tenants with regard to the terms on which they were to occupy under them.

12,307. Did you ascertain whether any such stipulation had been entered into between Messrs. Hay and the tenants?-I investigated the matter upon the spot, but I could not find any case where the money had been paid.

12,308. In what year did you make the investigation?-In 1869.

12,309. Did you find any case in which the money had been demanded?-I did not find any; but I understand that Messrs. Hay had sent round or had handed to each of the tenants the terms of the engagement under which they were to occupy, and that there was something about it in that. I did not see it myself; but I understood they were either to fish to Messrs. Hay, or to have liberty to fish elsewhere if they chose on payment of £1. That was the rule that had been laid down by Messrs. Hay; but I could not trace any case in which the money had been paid.

12,310. Have you any objection to state the name of the party who wrote the letter to Mr. Mack which you now hold in your hand?-I believe it was a private communication, and I would rather not mention the name. The writer says, 'Having fulfilled my promise to write you, I have to express the hope that this confidential communication may receive your kind consideration.' I don't know that it is of much importance who wrote the letter; but I may mention that he was a minister who was in the habit of visiting the island, and to whom some of the people had made complaints. It became very clear to me, from my investigation, that the case had been very much overstated. I got particulars of the prices paid to the men for several years, and I made inquiry at other places in the neighbourhood about the prices, and I could not find that they had any cause of complaint about the prices paid to them for their fish.

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