Chapter L: TREZEVANT and W. TIMMONS, Esqs (8)

At six in the evening, M. X. came and left with us the
first set of propositions, which, translated from the
French, are as follows: "A person who possesses the
confidence of the Directory, on what relates to the affairs
of America, convinced of the mutual advantages which would
result from the re-establishment of the good understanding
between the two nations, proposes to employ all of his
influence to obtain this object. He will assist the
Commissioners of the United States in all the demands which
they may have to make from the Government of France,
inasmuch as they may not be contradictory to those which he
proposes himself to make, and of which the principal will
be communicated confidentially. It is desired that, in the
official communications, there should be given a softening
turn to a part of the President's Speech to Congress, which
has caused much irritation. It is feared, that in not
satisfying certain individuals in this respect, they may
give way to all their resentment. The nomination of
Commissioners will be consented to on the same footing as
they have been named in the treaty of America with England,
to decide on the reclamations which individuals may make on
the Government of France, or on French individuals. The
payments which, agreeably to the decisions of the
Commissioners, shall fall to the share of the French
Government, are to be advanced by the American Government
itself. It is desired that the funds which, by this means,
shall enter again into the American trade, should be
employed in new supplies for the French colonies.
Engagements of this nature, on the part of individuals
reclaiming, will always hasten, in all probability, the
decisions of the French Commissioners; and, perhaps, it may
be desired that this clause should make a part of the
instructions which the Government of the United States
should give to the Commissioners they may choose. The
French Government desires, besides, to obtain a loan from
the United States; but so that that should not give any
jealousy to the English Government nor hurt the neutrality
of the United States. This loan shall be masked by
stipulating, that the Government of the United States
consents to make the advances for the payment of the debts
contracted by the agents of the French Government with the
citizens of the United States, and which are already
acknowledged, and the payment ordered by the Directory,
without having been yet effectuated. There should be
delivered a note to the amount of these debts. Probably
this note may be accompanied by ostensible pieces, which
will guarantee to the agents the responsibility of the
United States, in case any umbrage should cause an inquiry.
There shall also be first taken from this loan certain
sums for the purpose of making the customary distributions
in diplomatic affairs." The person of note mentioned in the
minutes, who had the confidence of the Directory, he said,
before us all, was M. Talleyrand. The amount of the loan he
could not ascertain precisely, but understood it would be
according to our ability to pay. The sum which would be
considered as proper, according to diplomatic usage, was
about twelve hundred thousand livres. He could not state to
us what parts of the President's speech were excepted to,
but said he would inquire and inform us. He agreed to
breakfast with Mr. Gerry the morning of the 21st, in order
to make such explanations as we had then requested, or
should think proper to request; but, on the morning of the
20th, M. X. called, and said that M. Y., the confidential
friend of M. Talleyrand, instead of communicating with us
through M. X., would see us himself and make the necessary
explanations. We appointed to meet him the evening of the
20th at seven o'clock, in General Marshall's room. At
seven, M. Y. and M. X. entered; and the first mentioned
gentleman, being introduced to us as the confidential
friend of M. Talleyrand, immediately stated to us the
favorable impression of that gentleman towards our
country--impressions which were made by the kindness and
civilities he had personally received in America. That,
impressed by his solicitude to repay these kindnesses, he
was willing to aid us in the present negotiation by his
good offices with the Directory, who were, he said,
extremely irritated against the Government of the United
States, on account of some parts of the President's speech,
and who had neither acknowledged nor received us, and
consequently have not authorized M. Talleyrand to have any
communications with us. The minister therefore could not
see us himself, but had authorized his friend M. Y. to
communicate to us certain propositions, and to receive our
answers to them; and to promise, on his part, that if we
would engage to consider them as the basis of the proposed
negotiation, he would intercede with the Directory to
acknowledge us, and to give us a public audience. M. Y.
stated to us explicitly and repeatedly, that he was clothed
with no authority; that he was not a diplomatic character;
that he was not * * * * he was only the friend of M.
Talleyrand, and trusted by him: that, with regard to
himself, he had * * * and he earnestly wished well to the
United States.

On reading the speech (Mr. Adams' to Congress,) M. Y.
dilated very much upon the keenness of the resentment it
had produced, and expatiated largely on the satisfaction he
said was indispensably necessary as a preliminary to
negotiation. "But, said he, gentlemen, I will not disguise
from you that this satisfaction being made, the essential
part of the treaty remains to be adjusted; il faut de
l'argent--il faut beaucoup d'argent;" _you must pay money,
you must pay a great deal of money_. He spoke much of the
force, the honor, and the jealous republican pride of
France; and represented to us strongly the advantage which
we should derive from the neutrality thus to be purchased.
He said that the receipt of the money might be so disguised
as to prevent its being considered as a breach of
neutrality by England; and thus save us from being
embroiled with that power. Concerning the twelve hundred
thousand livres little was said; that being completely
understood, on all sides, to be required for the officers
of the Government, and, therefore, needing no further
explanation. These propositions, he said, being considered
as the admitted basis of the proposed treaty, M. Talleyrand
trusted that, by his influence with the Directory, he could
prevail on the Government to receive us. We asked whether
we were to consider it as certain, that, without a previous
stipulation to the effect required, we were not to be
received. He answered that M. Talleyrand himself was not
authorized to speak to us the will of the Directory, and
consequently could not authorize him. The conversation
continued until half after nine, when they left us; having
engaged to breakfast with Mr. Gerry the next morning.

October the 21st, M. X. came before nine o'clock; M. Y. did
not come until ten: he had passed the morning with M.
Talleyrand. After breakfast the subject was immediately
resumed. He represented to us, that we were not yet
acknowledged or received; that the Directory were so
exasperated against the United States, as to have come to a
determination to demand from us, previous to our reception,
those disavowals, reparations, and explanations, which were
stated at large last evening. He said that M. Talleyrand
and himself were extremely sensible of the pain we must
feel in complying with this demand; but that the Directory
would not dispense with it; that, therefore, we must
consider it as the indispensable preliminary to obtain our
reception, unless we could find the means to change their
determination in this particular; that if we satisfied the
Directory in these particulars, a letter would be written
to us to demand the extent of our powers, and to know
whether we were authorized to place them precisely on the
same footing with England. We required an explanation of
that part of the conversation, in which M. Y. had hinted at
our finding means to avert the demand concerning the
President's speech. He answered, that he was not authorized
to state those means, but that we must search for them and
propose them ourselves. If, however, we asked his opinion
as a private individual, and would receive it as coming
from him, he would suggest to us the means which, in his
opinion, would succeed. On being asked to suggest the
means, he answered, _money_; that the Directory were
jealous of its own honor and of the honor of the nation;
that it insisted on receiving from us the same respect with
which we had treated the King; that this honor must be
maintained in the manner before required, unless we
substituted, in the place of these reparations, something,
perhaps more valuable, that was money. He said, further,
that if we desired him to point out the sum, which he
believed would be satisfactory, he would do so. We
requested him to proceed; and he said that there were
thirty-two millions of florins, of Dutch inscriptions,
worth ten shillings in the pound, which might be assigned
to us at twenty shillings in the pound; and he proceeded to
state to us the certainty that, after a peace, the Dutch
Government would repay us the money; so that we should
ultimately lose nothing, and the only operation of the
measure would be, an advance from us to France of
thirty-two millions, on the credit of the Government of
Holland. We asked him whether the fifty thousand pounds
sterling as a _douceur_ to the Directory, must be in
addition to this sum. He answered in the affirmative. We
told him that, on the subject of the treaty, we had no
hesitation in saying that our powers were ample; that, on
the other points proposed to us, we would retire into
another room, and return in a few minutes with our answer.

We committed immediately to writing the answer we
proposed, in the following words: "Our powers respecting a
treaty are ample; but the proposition of a loan, in the
form of Dutch inscriptions, or in any other form, is not
within the limits of our instructions; upon this point,
therefore, the Government must be consulted; one of the
American Ministers will, for the purpose, forthwith embark
for America; provided the Directory will suspend all
further captures on American vessels; and will suspend
proceedings on those already captured, as well where they
have been already condemned, as where the decisions have
not yet been rendered; and that where sales have been made,
but the money not yet received by the captors, it shall not
be paid until the preliminary questions, proposed to the
Ministers of the United States, be discussed and decided;"
which was read as a verbal answer, and we told them they
might copy it if they pleased. M. Y. refused to do so; his
disappointment was apparent; he said we treated the money
part of the proposition as if it had proceeded from the
Directory; whereas, in fact, it did not proceed even from
the Minister, but was only a suggestion from himself, as a
substitute to be proposed by us, in order to avoid the
painful acknowledgment that the Directory had determined to
demand of us. It was told him that we understood that
matter perfectly; that we knew the proposition was in form
to be ours; but that it came substantially from the
Minister. We asked what had led to our present
conversation? And General Pinckney then repeated the first
communication from M. X., (to the whole of which that
gentleman assented,) and we observed that those gentlemen
had brought no testimonials of their speaking any thing
from authority; but that, relying on the fair characters
they bore, we had believed them when they said they were
from the Minister, and had conversed with them, in like
manner, as if we were conversing with M. Talleyrand
himself; and that we could not consider any suggestion M.
Y. had made as not having been previously approved of; but
yet, if he did not choose to take a memorandum in writing
of our answer, we had no wish that he should do so; and
further, if he chose to give the answer to his proposition
the form of a proposition from ourselves, we could only
tell him that we had no other proposition to make, relative
to any advance of money on our part; that America had
sustained deep and heavy losses by the French depredations
on our commerce, and that France had alleged so [many]
complaints against the United States, that on those
subjects we came fully prepared, and were not a little
surprised to find France unwilling to hear us; and making
demands upon us which could never have been suspected by
our Government, and which had the appearance of our being
the aggressing party. M. Y. expressed himself vehemently on
the resentment of France; and complained that, instead of
our proposing some substitute for the reparations demanded
of us, we were stipulating certain conditions to be
performed by the Directory itself; that he could not take
charge of such propositions; and that the Directory would
persist in its demand of those reparations which he at
first stated. We answered that we could not help it; it was
for the Directory to determine what course its own honor
and the interests of France required it to pursue; it was
for us to guard the interest and honor of our country. M.
Y. observed that we had taken no notice of the first
proposition, which was to know whether we were ready to
make the disavowal, reparations, and explanations,
concerning the President's speech. We told him that we
supposed it to be impossible that either he, or the
Minister, could imagine that such a proposition could
require an answer; that we did not understand it as being
seriously expected; but merely as introductory to the
subjects of real consideration.

He spoke of the respect which the Directory required, and
repeated that it would exact as much as was paid to the
ancient kings. We answered that America had demonstrated to
the world, and especially to France, a much greater respect
for her present Government than for her former monarchy:
and that there was no evidence of this disposition which
ought to be required, that we were not ready to give. He
said that we should certainly not be received; and seemed
to shudder at the consequences. We told him, that America
had made every possible effort to remain on friendly terms
with France--that she was still making them, that if France
would not hear us, but would make war on the United States,
nothing remained for us but to regret the unavoidable
necessity of defending ourselves. [_Oct. 22._

No. 2.

OCTOBER 27, 1797.

About twelve we received another visit from M. X. He
immediately mentioned the great event announced in the
papers, and then said, that some proposals from us had been
expected on the subject on which we had before conversed:
that the Directory were becoming impatient, and would take
a decided course with regard to America, if we could not
soften them. We answered, that on that subject we had
already spoken explicitly, and had nothing further to add.
He mentioned the change in the state of things which had
been produced by the peace with the Emperor, as warranting
an expectation of a change in our system; to which we only
replied, that this event had been expected by us, and would
not, in any degree, affect our conduct. M. X. urged, that
the Directory had, since this peace, taken a higher and
more decided tone with respect to us, and all other neutral
nations, than had been before taken; that it had been
determined, that all nations should aid them, or be
considered and treated as their enemies. We answered, that
such an effect had already been contemplated by us, as
probable, and had not been overlooked when we gave to this
proposition our decided answer; and further, that we had no
powers to negotiate for a loan of money; that our
Government had not contemplated such a circumstance in any
degree whatever; that if we should stipulate a loan, it
would be a perfectly void thing, and would only deceive
France, and expose ourselves. M. X. again expatiated on the
power and violence of France; he urged the danger of our
situation, and pressed the policy of softening them, and of
thereby obtaining time. M. X. again returned to the subject
of money. Said he, you do not speak to the point; it is
money: it is expected that you will offer money. We said
that we had spoken to that point very explicitly: we had
given an answer. No, said he, you have not: what is your
answer? We replied, it is no; no; not a sixpence. He again
called our attention to the dangers which threatened our
country, and asked, if it would not be prudent, though we
might not make a loan to the nation, to interest an
influential friend in our favor. He said we ought to
consider what men we had to treat with; that they
disregarded the justice of our claims, and the reasoning
with which we might support them; that they disregarded
their own colonies, and considered themselves as perfectly
invulnerable with respect to us; that we could only acquire
an interest among them by a judicious application of money,
and it was for us to consider, whether the situation of our
country did not require that these means should be resorted
to.

He said that all the members of the Directory were not
disposed to receive our money; that Merlin, for instance,
was paid from another quarter, and would touch no part of
the douceur which was to come from us. We replied, that we
had understood that Merlin was paid by the owners of the
privateers; and he nodded an assent to the fact. He
proceeded to press this subject with vast perseverance. He
told us that we had paid money to obtain peace with the
Algerines and with the Indians; and that it was doing no
more to pay France for peace. To this it was answered, that
when our Government commenced a treaty with either Algiers
or the Indian tribes, it was understood that money was to
form the basis of the treaty, and was its essential
article; that the whole nation knew it, and was prepared to
expect it as a thing of course; but that in treating with
France, our Government had supposed that a proposition,
such as he spoke of, would, if made by us, give mortal
offence. He asked if our Government did not know that
nothing was to be obtained here without money? We replied,
that our Government had not even suspected such a state of
things. He appeared surprised at it, and said, that there
was not an American in Paris who could not have given that
information. The conversation continued for nearly two
hours; and the public and private advance of money was
pressed and re-pressed in a variety of forms. At length M.
X. said that he did not blame us; that our determination
was certainly proper, if we could keep it; but he showed
decidedly his opinion to be that we could not keep it. He
said that he would communicate, as nearly as he could, our
conversation to the Minister, or to M. Y. to be given by
him to the Minister; we are not certain which. We then
separated. On the 22d of October, M. Z., a French gentleman
of respectable character, informed Mr. Gerry, that M.
Talleyrand, Minister of Foreign Relations, who professed to
be well-disposed towards the United States, had expected to
have seen the American Ministers frequently in their
private capacities; and to have conferred with them
individually on the object of their mission; and had
authorized M. Z. to make this communication to Mr. Gerry.
The latter sent for his colleagues; and a conference was
held with M. Z. on the subject; in which General Pinckney
and General Marshall expressed their opinions, that, not
being acquainted with M. Talleyrand, they could not, with
propriety, call on him; but that, according to the custom
of France, he might expect this of Mr. Gerry, from a
previous acquaintance in America. This Mr. Gerry
reluctantly complied with on the 23d, and with M. Z. called
on M. Talleyrand, who, not being then at his office,
appointed the 28th for the interview. After the first
introduction, M. Talleyrand began the conference. He said
that the Directory had passed an arrêt, which he offered
for perusal, in which they had demanded of the Envoys an
explanation of some part, and a reparation for others, of
the President's speech to Congress, of the 16th of May: he
was sensible, he said, that difficulties would exist on the
part of the Envoys relative to this demand; but that by
their offering money, he thought he could prevent the
effect of the arrêt. M. Z., at the request of Mr. Gerry,
having stated that the Envoys have no such powers, M.
Talleyrand replied, they can, in such a case, take a power
on themselves; and proposed that they should make a loan. A
courier arriving at this moment from Italy, and M.
Talleyrand appearing impatient to read the letters, Mr.
Gerry took leave of him immediately. He followed to the
door, and desired M. Z. to repeat to Mr. Gerry what he, M.
Talleyrand, had said to him. Mr. Gerry then returned to his
quarters with M. Z., took down the particulars of this
interview, as before stated, sent for Gens. Pinckney and
Marshall, and read it to them in the presence of M. Z., who
confirmed it. Generals Pinckney and Marshall then desired
M. Z. to inform M. Talleyrand that they had nothing to add
to this conference, and did not wish that the arrêt might
be delayed on their account.

OCTOBER 29.