Chapter V: Front Matter (5)

If there are any gentlemen here who oppose the advancement and growth of that District which they have taken under their wing, they should come forward and declare it; we then should have ground to account for their conduct. If we are determined to deny these people common justice, we dispirit them. There is no circumstance which can occur that will tend so much to discourage the growth of that State; if we forbear to do them this justice, we exclude them looking up for those common rights which could be enjoyed in any other Territory of the United States. I hope this House will never deny to that people, rising into existence, this small privilege. Is it a strange thing, I would ask gentlemen, for a State to grant charters? I answer, no. And for this State to be denied this privilege only to secure a fund for such an excellent institution, I believe is quite a novel idea. I hope if there are any doubts on this subject, they will lie over for future consideration; and I hope we shall be careful not to damp the attempts of that people by a conduct which could not be refused by any State in the Union; and that Congress should refuse it without assigning a sufficient reason is unprecedented. I hope it will lie over for future consideration, and not be refused so quickly.

It was moved that the subject should lie over until the second Monday in January.

The question for postponement was put and carried--ayes 37, noes 36.

WEDNESDAY, December 28.

_Relief to Savannah._

Mr. W. SMITH wished the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the resolution, which he had the other day laid upon the table, proposing to afford some relief to the sufferers by the late fire at Savannah. For his part, he said, he could see no reasonable objection which could be made to so benevolent a proposition. A gentleman in the House had got a plan of the ruins of the city; it was, indeed, a most distressful scene. There had never occurred so calamitous an event of the kind in the United States, or which had so strong a claim upon the General Government for relief. He said they had granted assistance to the sufferers by fire at St. Domingo; and surely if it were justifiable to grant relief to foreigners in distress, it was at least equally so when the objects were our own citizens. If gentlemen had objections to the measure, he wished they would state them. The sum with which he should think of filling up the blank would not be such as to materially affect our finances.

Mr. MILLEDGE said, if the unfortunate had any claim upon the Government for relief, none could have greater than the citizens of Savannah. Few houses, he said, were remaining of that city, and those few were the least valuable. Not a public building, not a place of public worship, or of public justice--all was a wide waste of ruin and desolation, such as scarcely could be conceived, and as it were impossible to describe. He hoped some relief would be afforded to distress so unexampled.

Mr. COOPER said, it was a very unpleasant thing to come forward to oppose a measure of this sort; but, when they looked into different parts of the Union, and saw the losses which had been sustained at New York, Charleston, &c., it would appear only reasonable that, if relief was afforded in one case, it ought to be extended to another; and, if this resolution were agreed to, he should certainly move to have some relief afforded to New York. He hoped, however, the business would not be proceeded with. If the principle were a good one, it would bear going through with; but it would be seen this would, on the contrary, prove a dangerous one. What they did to-day, he said, should bear repeating to-morrow. If they were to make good losses by fire, there would be no occasion for insurance companies, nor any inducement to build with brick in preference to wood. He felt as much as others for the distresses of the people of Savannah, but was of opinion it was not a proper business for the interference of that House.

Mr. W. SMITH agreed with the gentleman last up that this would be considered as a precedent; he agreed that they ought not to do that to-day which ought not to be done to-morrow. It might be brought forward as a principle upon which we should be bound to relieve New York or Charleston; but the question is, whether this is not a distinct case? This is a case awfully distinguishable from all others; and if a case like the present will not be often found, this House are certainly not bound to grant relief in others, though in this. He trusted such a case would not be again found to solicit relief. Charleston, he said, had experienced a great calamity by fire, but had not asked relief of that House; and it was probable if it had it would not have been granted, because its distresses are not so great. In a distressing situation like that now before us aid can be afforded by the many towards alleviating the distresses of the few. Hence arises the advantages from public contributions; and would that House, he asked, refuse their assistance? It would not be felt by the public purse. It has been said, to adopt this resolution would have a dangerous tendency, inasmuch as it would encourage a neglect of insurance. But the evil has come; the unfortunate circumstance has occurred; four-fifths of that unfortunate city has been destroyed, and their distress is great. Such a circumstance may not again happen for a century. The amazing value of £500,000 sterling damages is done; and shall we refuse to give a trifle to assist, with others, towards removing the present distressed situation of some of the unfortunate inhabitants? I trust not. It is not asked of the House to indemnify the loss of these sufferers. No, sir; it is only asked that the General Government should give the trifling sum of fifteen or twenty thousand dollars to afford these people some relief.

The question was then put for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, and lost--yeas 38, nays 39.

It was then moved that the committee be discharged from the further consideration of the subject.

Mr. W. LYMAN hoped the business would not be disposed of without going into a Committee of the Whole. He thought more respect was due to the feelings of the sufferers than to dispose of the subject without discussion. He hoped the committee would not, therefore, be discharged.

Mr. HARTLEY trusted the committee would not be discharged. He believed the destruction of Lisbon by an earthquake did not occasion greater mischiefs than the late fire had done to Savannah. The Legislature of Pennsylvania, which had no greater power than the General Government to afford relief to these sufferers, had given $15,000. Indeed, he thought it more the province of the General Government than of State Governments to afford relief in such cases.

Shall we, said he, treat the citizens of Savannah with more disrespect than the people of St. Domingo? This House then gave $10,000 or more for the relief of those people, and shall we not now have liberty to discuss the subject, whether to give or not to our own citizens? Although, he said, he would not wish to draw a precedent from English transactions, yet he would observe that their generous benevolence to the unfortunate sufferers by the earthquake at Lisbon, though only commercially acquainted was worth imitation, to whom they gave £100,000. Mr. H. was sorry gentlemen should endeavor to prevent this by bringing in the calamities in New York and Charleston. Those were only personal losses; this was a general conflagration, a catastrophe unprecedented; and he hoped, for the sake of humanity and national honor, this House would never withhold relief.

Mr. SPRIGG hoped the committee would not be discharged, but that they would go into the business at an early day. He said, he had not made up his mind how far they had power to afford relief in a case like the present. There was an instance in the relief afforded to the daughters of the Count de Grasse, as well as that given to the sufferers at St. Domingo. He wished for further time to make inquiry on the subject. If there were not insuperable objections to the measure, he hoped relief would be afforded.

Mr. HARPER acknowledged that it was sound policy in Government to keep a strict eye over its Treasury; but this watchfulness ought not to go to the rejection of all claims, however just and proper. He thought the tenaciousness of approaching the Treasury was carried too far in the present instance. He would ask, what was the use of society if it were not to lessen the evils of such calamities as the present, by spreading them over the whole community, instead of suffering them to fall upon the heads of a few individuals? He thought it the duty of Government to alleviate such peculiar distress as the present. It was said this would prove a dangerous precedent, and prevent necessary provisions against fire. If they were about to make good the whole of the £500,000 destroyed, there might be some ground for the alarm; but when fifteen or twenty thousand dollars only were contemplated to be given, no great danger could surely be apprehended. The fires at New York, Baltimore, and Charleston, had been mentioned; but what were the means of Savannah when compared with New York? Not as one to twenty. New York was rich enough to bear her loss, but this could not be said of Savannah, all the inhabitants of which were reduced to poverty and distress. They could not, therefore, get relief from their fellow-citizens; and to whom could they look for protection and relief with so much propriety as to the General Government? When compared to Charleston, the loss of Savannah was of ten times the magnitude as that experienced by it. The loss of Charleston was alleviated by a subscription of $30,000 from its own citizens, besides the handsome contributions which were made in other parts of the Union; but there was no property left in Georgia to afford relief to the sufferers. Suppose, said Mr. H., we were to give thirty thousand dollars towards this loss, what would it be when divided among the whole Union? And yet it would be enough to draw down countless blessings upon us from these objects of distress. He hoped, therefore, the committee would not be discharged. It was a case of peculiar and almost unprecedented affliction, such as he hoped would not again occur; and a decision in their favor would be applauded by every man, woman, and child in the Union.

The question was then taken for going into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, and carried by a considerable majority, there being 45 votes for it.

The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, when

Mr. W. SMITH said, he did not propose to fill up the blank at that time. If the resolution was agreed to, the sum could be put in when the bill came into the House. He himself should not think of proposing to fill the blank with more than 15,000 dollars. This, it was true, was but a small sum, but it would afford relief to the poorer class of sufferers, and others could not expect to receive the amount of their losses. He should move that the committee might rise and report the resolution.

Mr. HARTLEY called for the reading of the act allowing relief to the sufferers by fire at St. Domingo. [It was read. It allowed 15,000 dollars for their relief, which sum was to be charged to the French Republic, and if not allowed in six months, the relief was to be stopped after that time.]

Mr. MACON wished the act allowing a sum of money to the daughters of Count de Grasse to be read also. He did not think either of them in point. The sufferings of the people of Savannah were doubtless very great; no one could help feeling for them. But he wished gentlemen to put their finger upon that part of the constitution which gave that House power to afford them relief. Many other towns had suffered very considerably by fire. He believed he knew one that had suffered more than Savannah in proportion to its size: he alluded to Lexington in Virginia, as every house in the place was burnt. If the United States were to become underwriters to the whole Union, where must the line be drawn when their assistance might be claimed? Was it when three-fourths or four-fifths of a town was destroyed, or what other proportion? Insurance offices were the proper securities against fire. If the Government were to come forward in one instance, it must come forward in all, since every sufferer's claim stood upon the same footing. The sum which had been given to the sufferers at St. Domingo was to be charged to the French Republic, and that given to Count de Grasse's daughters was in consideration of their father's services. But New York had as great right to come forward and expect relief as Savannah. He felt for the sufferers in all these cases, but he felt as tenderly for the constitution; he had examined it, and it did not authorize any such grant. He should, therefore, be very unwilling to act contrary to it.

Mr. RUTHERFORD said, he felt a great deal of force on what gentlemen had said. There were two circumstances which were perfectly conclusive in his mind. He saw it our duty to grant relief from humanity and from policy. Savannah was a city of a minor, helpless State; it was a very young State, yet it was a part of the Union, and as such, was as much entitled to protection as any State under such a direct misfortune; and it became Congress to alleviate their great distress. They have lost much; they have, many of them, lost their all. To say we will not assist to relieve, when almost every State in the Union is putting their shoulders to support these people's burden, is wrong. The State of Pennsylvania has done itself immortal honor in the relief it has afforded, and shall we not help to support this part of the family in their distress? This State is a branch of the great family of the Union; it would be, in my idea, extremely inconsistent to neglect them. He hoped the motion would be adopted, and he hoped it would never be said that the General Government refused to provide help in such a poignant distress occurring in one of its principal towns.

Mr. HARTLEY said, that the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. MACON) had voted against both of the bills which had been referred to. He knew no difference between the Constitution of the United States and that of Pennsylvania, yet a vote in their House had been carried unanimously. He thought the law for the relief of the sufferers of St. Domingo perfectly in point; for, notwithstanding what was said about negotiation, the distress of those people had consumed all the money before the six months were expired. If ever there was a case in which they could grant relief, this was one. The losses at New York and Charleston would bear no comparison with that of Savannah; they were rich and flourishing places, whilst Savannah was a small city of a new State, and the sufferers generally poor. He hoped, therefore, the resolution would be agreed to.

Mr. MOORE said, the laws which had been adduced as precedents were not in point; for the one sum we were to have credit with the French Republic, and the other was in consideration of past services. The distress of the people of Savannah was not an object of legislation; every individual citizen could, if he pleased, show his individual humanity by subscribing to their relief; but it was not constitutional for them to afford relief from the Treasury. If, however, the principle was adopted, it should be general. Every sufferer had an equal claim. Lexington, in Virginia, contained only one hundred houses, and all except two had been destroyed by fire. He should therefore move to add Lexington to Savannah in the resolution before them; though he would observe, as he did not approve of the principle, he should vote against them both.

Mr. VENABLE did not see the difference between the two cases which was so distinguishable to the gentleman last up. Because Savannah was a commercial city, its distress, according to that gentleman, was indescribable, but when a like scene was exhibited in a small town, it was no longer an object which touched his feelings. His humanity went no where but where commerce was to be found. He asked whether the United States might not as well lose revenue in the first instance, as put money into the people's pockets to pay it with? Humanity was the same every where. A person who lost his all in a village, felt the misfortune as heavily as he who had a like loss in a city, and perhaps more so, since the citizen would have a better opportunity by means of commerce of retrieving his loss. He was against the general principle, as he believed, if acted upon, it would bring such claims upon the Treasury as it would not be able to answer.

Mr. MURRAY thought the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. VENABLE) carried his idea of relief too far. He had no idea that that House, or any Legislature, could undertake to make good individual misfortunes. He was of opinion that the lines which separated individual from national cases, were very observable; the one was happening every day, the other seldom occurred. When a large town is burnt down, and that town is an important Southern frontier town, it is surely a national calamity, and has a claim upon the humanity of the country. It was true, the claim was not of such a nature as to be brought into a Court of Justice, but it was a calamity in which the whole nation sympathized. It was not only a claim upon the humanity of the nation, but also upon its policy, as, by restoring it to its former situation, it would be able to bear its wonted part in contributing to the revenue of the country, and would continue to carry population, arts, and wealth to that distant part of the Union. In case of war, Savannah was a most important place. It was necessary the Union should have a town in that situation, and he could not consider any money which might now be advanced as given away, but as lent to that town, which might enable it, in a few years, to resume its former situation, whilst the withholding of it might prevent its ever rising from its present ruins.

Mr. KITCHELL was opposed to the amendment and to the resolution itself. He had doubts if even they were to give the citizens 15,000 dollars, as was proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina, whether they should not, instead of service, be doing them an injury; because, if the General Government were only to give this sum, the State Legislatures would proportion their donations accordingly, and probably give much less than they would otherwise have done, if they had not had this example before them. He had doubts as to the constitutionality of the measure; he thought the constitution did not authorize them to make such use of public money; however, he thought it might be a very flexible instrument; it would bend to every situation, and every situation to that. He thought, in this instance, if we grant money, while we attempt to serve, we shall eventually injure. As to what the gentleman from Virginia says of Lexington, Mr. K. thought it had been fully relieved; however he should vote against both propositions.

Mr. PAGE said, that he was sorry that his colleague had made this amendment, as he had done it with a view to defeat the original resolution. If humanity alone were to direct his vote upon this question, and if the amendment had been proposed more early and singly, he might have voted for it. But that not being the case, it, as well as motives of general policy, influenced him in favor of the original motion. He had reasons which could not apply to the amendment. He should vote against it. He was bound by order to confine himself to the single question before the committee. This is, Shall the amendment be received or not? He declared it as his opinion that the case of Lexington ought not to be connected with that of Savannah, which had been, as stated by the member from South Carolina, materially different. He was restrained by order from entering into the merits of the original resolution, but he thought that he had a right to hint at the motive of policy which would apply to the resolution, and not to the amendment. This was, that Savannah being an important place, it would be wise and politic to prevent its revival from being owing to any other aid than that of the General Government of the United States. It ought not to be under obligations to individuals, or single States, and much less to a foreign power.

Mr. HARTLEY hoped the amendment would not prevail. If the loss of the people at Lexington had been greater than they could support, they would doubtless have applied to the Legislature of Virginia, but he had not heard of any such application having been made. He agreed with the gentleman last up, that the General Government ought to relieve distresses of this kind.

Mr. MURRAY inquired when the fire happened at Lexington?

Mr. MOORE answered, about nine months ago. He thought it was the duty of the United States first to pay the claims which were made upon them by distressed soldiers and others for past services, who were denied justice because they had passed an act of limitation. If they were to act from generosity, he said that generosity ought to be extended universally. It was a new doctrine that because a sufferer by fire did not live in a commercial city he was not equally entitled to relief with the inhabitants of a city, and that though such persons were called upon to contribute to the losses of others, they could have no redress for their own. This seemed as if favorite spots were to be selected upon which special favor was to be shown. He was opposed to all such humanity.

Mr. CLAIBORNE was against the amendment, but he hoped the resolution would be agreed to. He was sorry any gentleman should propose an amendment like this, purposely to defeat a motion which would tend to relieve such sufferers as those of Georgia must be. He was not certain whether he could vote upon constitutional grounds or not. It was a sharp conflict between humanity to that suffering country and the constitution. If any case could be admissible, he thought this could; it ought to be remembered, that that part of the Union has suffered much. Georgia was a slaughter-pen during the war, besides being continually harassed by the hostile Indians. He thought 15,000 dollars would not be ill-spent, as from motives of policy it would be of more advantage to the United States from the quick return the revenue would gain. Indeed, if constitutional, he hoped the sum would be made more than proposed. These are your fellow-citizens who are suffering, and if not speedily relieved, the whole interest will be involved. If in order, he would vote that the committee rise, to enable him and, perhaps, many others, to consult whether relief could be constitutionally granted? He said he felt a great propensity to do it.

The question was put on the amendment and negatived--there being only 26 in favor of it.

Mr. BALDWIN said, he had doubted whether to make any observations on this motion; not that he was insensible to the calamitous situation which had been the cause of it, but from an apprehension that it might be thought he was too strongly affected by it. Though it might be disagreeable to one to give his judgment and urge his opinions, when his own relation to the question was different from that of others, yet some of the reflections might not be useless to those who were to determine it. He was sure it was not a want of disposition to relieve the unhappy sufferers that had or would draw forth an observation on this occasion, but merely doubts as to the powers of the Federal Government in money matters. The use of a written constitution, and of that provision in it which declared that no money should be drawn from the Treasury but under appropriations made by law, was very manifest from the caution which it gave in the expenditure of public money and in laying burdens on the people; yet he believed it impossible to obtain absolute directions from it in every case. The objection is, that Congress is empowered to raise money only to pay the debts and to provide for the common defence, and the other purposes, exactly as specified in the 8th section. The objection has often been made, but many laws have passed not exactly specified in that section. He mentioned the private acts before alluded to, the law for establishing light-houses, to aid navigation in the improvement of harbors, beacons, buoys, and public piers, establishing trading-houses with the Indians, and some others, to show that though the constitution was very useful in giving general directions, yet it was not capable of being administered under so rigorous and mechanical a construction as had been sometimes contended for.

Mr. GILES said, if the present resolution passed it would make them answerable for all future losses by fire. The small sum of $15,000 was not of any consequence when compared with the establishment of a principle of that House acting upon generosity. He believed that neither the money nor humanity, but the establishment of the principle, was the thing aimed at. The unanimity with which a resolution had passed the Pennsylvania Legislature, was a proof that they believed they had the power to pass such a law. It was said the General Government possessed the authority. The gentleman from Georgia had said that "affairs of men" made it necessary to depart from the strict constitutional power. For his part, he did not think they ought to attend to what "the affairs of men" or what generosity and humanity required, but what the constitution and their duty required.

The authority of that House, he said, was specified, beyond which they ought not to go. This was a principle not within the constitution, but opposed to it.

There had, he said, been several cases introduced. That of the sufferers of St. Domingo was not a case in point. They looked for a reimbursement of the money. He believed it had been repaid. And when the daughters of the Count de Grasse had $4,000 given them, it was thought to be necessary to introduce their father's services as a consideration. His feelings, he said, were not less alive to the calls of humanity than those of other gentlemen; but, by granting the money required, they should go beyond their powers, and do more real injury than good.

Mr. CLAIBORNE said, the more he heard, the more he found himself in favor of the resolution. By the discussion it had undergone, he was inclined to think it was, perhaps, reconcilable with the constitution; perhaps it was, he said, for he was not certain. The annual revenue, he said, of that place, was seventy thousand dollars to the United States, besides the great consideration of it as a frontier town. He had compared the advantages and disadvantages with respect to its relief in his own mind, and thought it would be highly consistent with policy to grant relief. It was a place which had been in great distress, and had great struggles with enemies in times past. Can it be possible to suppose that we have not power to assist in erecting that place again, and putting it upon a footing to do good to the United States by a return of her revenue? Certainly not. Would the committee be willing that Savannah should be erased from the revenue? Are they willing to let it rest, and lose it? This is impossible. Then, surely, it becomes policy to give aid towards its re-erection. Unless the people do receive some aid, it will be a long time before seventy thousand dollars will be again produced from the revenue of that place.

The committee then rose and reported their disagreement, when the House took it up.

The question was then taken, and the yeas and nays demanded, "that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House in their disagreement to the motion," and resolved in the affirmative--yeas 55, nays 24, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, David Bard, Thomas Blount,
Theophilus Bradbury, Richard Brent, Samuel J. Cabell,
Gabriel Christie, John Clopton, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles,
James Davenport, George Dent, Abiel Foster, Jesse Franklin,
Nathaniel Freeman, jr., Ezekiel Gilbert, William B. Giles,
James Gillespie, Nicholas Gilman, Chauncey Goodrich,
Christopher Greenup, Roger Griswold, William B. Grove,
Carter B. Harrison, John Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, James
Holland, Andrew Jackson, George Jackson, Aaron Kitchell,
John Wilkes Kittera, Edward Livingston, Samuel Lyman,
William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, Andrew
Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Josiah Parker, Francis
Preston, John Read, Samuel Sewall, Nathaniel Smith, Israel
Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., William Strudwick, John
Swanwick, Zephaniah Swift, Richard Thomas, Philip Van
Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, Peleg
Wadsworth, and John Williams.

NAYS.--Abraham Baldwin, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne,
William Craik, George Ege, Dwight Foster, Henry Glenn,
Andrew Gregg, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley,
William Hindman, Francis Malbone, John Milledge, Frederick
A. Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Elisha R.
Potter, John Richards, Robert Rutherford, John S.
Sherburne, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Isaac Smith,
and William Smith.

THURSDAY, December 29.

GEORGE HANCOCK, from Virginia, appeared, and took his seat.

_Canadian Refugees._

Mr. WILLIAMS moved for the order of the day, that the House resolve itself into a committee on the reports of committees to whom were referred the petitions of sundry refugees from Canada and Nova Scotia.

The first resolution read from the last report of the select committee on this subject, was in these words:

"_Resolved_, That the prayer of the Petitioners, Joseph
Green and others, from Canada, praying a bounty in lands
and other pay, for services rendered in the late war with
Great Britain, ought not to be granted."

This resolution was agreed to. The second was thus:

"_Resolved_, That a tract of land, not exceeding ----
acres, be laid off north-west of the Ohio River, beginning
at the mouth of the Great Miami, and extending down the
Ohio, not exceeding three times the breadth in length, be
immediately appropriated to compensate the refugees from
the British provinces of Canada and Nova Scotia, pursuant
to the resolves of Congress of the 23d of April, 1783, and
the 13th April, 1785."

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped the situation of the land would not be mentioned in the resolution; there were many circumstances that would render it unnecessary and improper.

Mr. HARTLEY wished to know where the land was to be, because the value of the land in different places was various; he thought they ought to have land: he would not be thought to object to the resolution.

Mr. VENABLE did not think it necessary to mention at this time what land should be appropriated for this purpose. A bill would be introduced in a few days, it could then be determined. If there were objections to appropriate the land mentioned, he hoped gentlemen would then propose a spot that would suit every conveniency better. These people, he said, ought to be satisfied: it was time they were.

Mr. DAYTON said, that the Chairman of the committee said there was no land near Lake Erie of that description belonging to the United States; he wished to know what foundation the assertion had?

Mr. GREENUP said, the committee had made what inquiry they could on the subject, of persons well informed, who told them there was no land belonging to the United States of that description.

Mr. SITGREAVES would vote for striking out the clause as it stood, not from any knowledge he had on the justice of the claims, but, if just, satisfaction should be given. The committee had not reported as to the value of land necessary to be given; the value of land was proportioned to its different qualities and location; he thought it would be as well for these people, to give them military land warrants, and let them locate by lot: this had heretofore been the method, and he thought it would be as advantageous to them as any, and avoid many difficulties with respect to the grant.

Mr. MACON hoped the question would be divided; he liked the proposition of the gentleman last up, to strike out, and insert the words proposed; he therefore would wish the committee to rise, and report progress; or, if the House do not adopt the substitute, he hoped it would be recommitted.

Mr. DAYTON moved to strike out the words relative to location, and substitute the following resolution:

"_Resolved_, That provision ought to be made by law for
granting donations of land to Canadian and Nova Scotia
refugees, in conformity to the resolves of Congress of the
23d of April, 1783, and the 13th of April, 1785."

This resolution was adopted.

The third was--

"_Resolved_, That five hundred acres of land be granted to
each refugee from Canada and Nova Scotia."

This resolution was attended with three explanatory restrictions. It passed, and the Chairman read the first of these rules, which was, "that the applicant shall make proof, before some Court of record, of his actual residence in one of the provinces aforesaid, previous to the ---- day of ----."

Mr. GREENUP supposed this was meant merely as the outlines of a plan to be completed when the bill was brought in; at this time it was necessary that instruction should be given to the committee that they may bring in a bill consistent with the will of the House.

Mr. DAYTON objected to this, and the two following clauses. He objected also to the resolution for an indiscriminate grant of five hundred acres of land to each refugee. Some of these people would be found to deserve more and some less, in proportion to their exertion and sufferings. Some might have lost large property, or have had large families. If Mr. DAYTON had observed what the committee were doing, he would have objected to the passing of that clause. He likewise opposed the present one. This clause and the remaining two were negatived.

The Committee of the Whole then rose. The Chairman reported progress. The House took up the report. The first resolution and the second, as altered in the committee, were agreed to.

The question on the third resolution was then put.

Mr. MACON thought that it would be exceedingly improper to grant an equal quantity to each; it ought to be entirely circumstantial.

Mr. GREENUP was of the same opinion; he said some of these people had suffered more than others. The circumstances of some were such that they were in irons, in close confinement twelve or fourteen months, many of them had the warrant signed for their execution, and a variety of cruelties were exercised: these distresses required consideration.

Mr. BALDWIN hoped it would be struck out; the House should not go into particulars of the quantity to be given, or the circumstances of the persons; he had seen great difficulty attending these specifications. He did not like this loose way of doing business; they need not open land offices for that purpose; some way would be found out to give the people satisfaction.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped the committee would not be restricted.

The question on the third resolution was then put, and lost.

A committee was then appointed of Messrs. GILMAN, WILLIAMS, and GREENUP, with instructions to bring in a bill pursuant to the resolutions as amended.

_Kidnapping Negroes._

Mr. SWANWICK called the order of the day on a report of the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, made the last session, on a memorial from the State of Delaware, respecting the kidnapping of negroes and mulattoes. The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject.

Mr. SWANWICK said, that there was a mischievous practice in use of carrying these people away from the place of their residence, by masters of vessels, and selling them in other parts. The plan of the committee was to get instructions from the House to bring in a bill making it necessary for every master of a vessel to have a certificate of the number and situation of any negroes or mulattoes he may have on board. He hoped the measure would not at all be opposed, as it only prevented thefts in this case.

Mr. COIT wished to know whether it was necessary for the United States to intermeddle with this? He wished the report had been more satisfactory, and stated the principles upon which it was formed with more precision. The evil, he doubted not, existed, but the law might create a greater evil than that it was intended to cure. It appeared to him that the laws in the several States were fully adequate to the subject without further provision; he was not ready to give a vote on it either way at present.

Mr. SWANWICK said, the report was grounded on an application from the Legislature of Delaware. [Mr. S. here read the memorial from that State to Congress.] The practice, he said, was very injurious and dangerous to that State, and he hoped a remedy would be attempted, as it was in the power of Congress to provide one by this method; some of the States had made an attempt to remedy this evil, but their laws were broken with impunity. If the resolution of the committee passed, he should move that the committee bring in a bill in pursuance thereto.

Mr. SWANWICK said, the laws of the different States forbade the stealing of negroes; but they had no remedy that would take effect out of their own State: and although each had effect in their own State, yet they had no power on the water. The intention of the present measure was to oblige masters of vessels, when they cleared out of any ports in the Delaware, when they took any negro or mulatto on board, to have a certificate of their being free. The situation of the State of Delaware, communicating with both the Delaware and Chesapeake, was, in this respect, particularly exposed to insult and injury; but this remedy, he thought, would be effectual. The gentleman last up wished the committee to rise, in order to recommit it: he should vote for it if the gentleman was willing to add, "to bring in a bill." The gentleman was in the committee, if he had stated his objections there, it might have saved time.

Mr. MURRAY wished to know what was fully meant by the idea of preventing kidnapping. He confessed he did not rightly understand the meaning of the word. Was the intention of the committee to have reference to the taking of free negroes and selling them as slaves, or the taking slaves to make them free?

Mr. SWANWICK said it was intended to prevent both evils. It was intended to prevent their being stolen from their masters; and, also, to prevent the power of the master taking them to the other States to sell them. This measure, he thought, would prevent both. The State of Maryland had taken measures to prevent it themselves; they had made it a heavy penalty to take a negro out of the State; but that is not effectual to prevent the evil now complained of. This was meant to prevent the practice of examining ships before they sailed and when they arrived.

Mr. W. SMITH wished the committee to rise; not with a view of recommitting the report, but to get rid of the business altogether. The subject, he said, involved many serious questions; it required very serious consideration, and he wished it had never come up. It was a question with him how far Congress had a right to meddle with it at all. He felt alarmed on the subject as brought from that State. He considered it as a kind of entering-wedge, as a gentleman had lately said, on another occasion. It was altogether a municipal regulation, and not at all connected with trade or commerce, and therefore ought to be left to the State Legislatures to settle. He did not think the constitution allowed that House to act in it.

Gentlemen had said, that the laws of the States took no effect on the waters. This, he thought, was founded on a mistake. The laws of the States could prevent robbery on water as well as on land, if within the jurisdiction of the United States. He hoped the committee would rise, and dismiss the subject.

Mr. ISAAC SMITH thought the gentleman knew not the proper meaning of the report. It was not to make a law against stealing merely, but against its being done successfully; many instances, he said, had occurred, where they had been hid many days on board the ships and taken away in the night to the West Indies, and other parts of the world to sell them. It was impossible that the existing laws of the States should prevent this fraudulent practice: the intent of this law was to prevent this practice; by being examined, and forced to take certificates along with them, it could not be easily done. The particulars of the remedy would be more readily seen when the bill was brought in; it would explain itself; it then might be modified, altered, or rejected altogether. He thought it could give no offence or cause of alarm to any gentleman; and he was sure it was no way contrary to the constitution.

Mr. MACON wished the committee to rise, and not have leave to sit again. He began to see more of the impropriety of the measure than before, and for the same reasons as the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. SMITH.)

Mr. SWANWICK said, this House had ascertained a certain proof, by which our seamen are known, by giving them a certificate of their citizenship, specifying their person and freedom, which had operated against impressment: and was it not equally necessary, and would it not be equally competent, to protect a man from injuries to which his color has exposed him? Our unfortunate negroes and mulattoes are exposed by their color to much insult. In some places, he said, they were so exposed, that color alone was evidence of slavery. He would not enter into the question, whether all ought to be free, because it was not immediately before the House; but if these people were black or white, if free, they ought to be protected in the enjoyment of their freedom, not only by State Legislatures but by the General Government.

Mr. MURRAY did not expect to have raised the sensibility of the gentleman last up. It really arose from his ignorance, he said. He wished to know the origin of the matter; he did not know whether it had originated in a memorial, or whether it came from the humanity of some patriotic member, unsolicited. Great and manifold evils did exist in this point; he meant to make a motion on the subject, as Maryland felt heavily from the practice. He confessed he was not sufficiently acquainted with the English language to know the proper meaning of the word _kidnapping_; he therefore wished to know if it extended to the object he had in view. He declared he did not wish to encourage the harboring of negroes; far from it; he wished to prevent it. He did not think the law extended far enough on that point; at present, negroes, through the influence of their own minds, or the insinuations of others, or both, frequently leave their masters, and are harbored by other persons. The law takes no notice of this, except it can be proved that the negro is some person's property, and has absconded: this is very difficult to prove; therefore great evils attend its lenity. 'Tis true, if it can be proved that the negro has absconded and was harbored, there was a very heavy penalty inflicted; but, he said, this was difficult to prove. This, he owned, was his _insinuation_, as the gentleman termed it; and upon this subject he meant to claim the attention of the House. This evil, he said, might arise from the false philosophy and misplaced philanthropy of the advocates of emancipation. He was ever willing to give the question a fair trial, and thought himself bound to thank the gentleman for his extreme benevolence in advocating it.

Mr. SWANWICK, to satisfy the gentleman from Maryland, told him, that the subject came before the House from the State of Delaware.

Mr. W. SMITH said, he did not know how far the committee should go, he should not vote for the matter to go into the committee. He said, it was that kind of business which, by the constitution, was to be left to the different States, he could not agree to the subject going any further. The observations of the gentleman from Pennsylvania had convinced him that that House ought not to interfere with the individual States on the subject; the interests and policy of the different States were so various, that it would be a dangerous thing to meddle with. He thought it an improper question for discussion; he conceived it would be sound policy not to touch it in that House. The gentleman had gone too far to make use of the word _emancipation_. He feared lest the use of it should spread an alarm through some of the States. It might imperceptibly lead from step to step till it ends in mischief.

Mr. NICHOLAS hoped the business would not be dismissed. We, said Mr. N., who reside in the Southern States, are unfortunately possessed of such a kind of property as has a considerable odium attached to it; but, if we unfortunately hold slaves, we ought not to contribute to the making slaves of free men, but I would wish to establish them in their freedom. If we can give relief as the thing exists, let it be; by all means do it, whether it incur the pleasure or displeasure of some of the slaveholders. He hoped the subject would have full investigation.

The question was then put for the committee to rise. Fifty-four members rising in the affirmative, it was carried.

Mr. SITGREAVES then moved for the Committee of the Whole to be discharged from the further consideration of the report; this, he said, was in order to make way for another motion to refer it back to the committee, to report by bill or otherwise.

The question was put, and the committee discharged.

Mr. SWANWICK moved that the business be recommitted to the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, to report by bill or otherwise.

Mr. COIT wished the subject to be postponed for further consideration before it was sent to the committee. He had doubts as to the propriety of sending it at all. He thought it had not had that discussion a subject so important required.

Mr. W. SMITH said, he believed this was the first time it was considered in the House. It had been tried in a committee but never taken up by the House, and now gentlemen wished to send it back to the committee, with instructions to bring in a bill. The Committee of Commerce and Manufactures was considerably deranged since last session, when this business came before them; many new members were added, and it required more information before it could come to the conclusion prescribed.

Mr. SITGREAVES said, if any one good purpose could be derived to the House or to the gentlemen, he would not oppose it; but he was at a loss to know what good object could be attained by a delay. With respect to what had been said by the gentleman, (Mr. SMITH,) that the committee were forced to bring in a bill, he was surprised that such an idea should be formed. If that committee report a bill, this House is not even pledged to pass it. When the subject is sent to the committee with that instruction, can it be conceived that committee is forced to report a bill? There is no such thing intended nor included in the words, as either this House should be pledged to pass a bill, or that the committee should report one. The object is, that the House, through the medium of the committee, should have a plan prepared for their consideration, and the word "otherwise" leaves the committee to exercise its own discretion as to the report.

The gentleman from Connecticut, with a prudence and consistency highly becoming, wishes time to think on the subject. But how is that gentleman to have foundation for his reflections until a bill is drawn? Mr. S. did not know what were the resources of that gentleman's mind, but for himself, he must own that in all the attitudes in which this subject had presented itself, he could not distinctly see the plan. One gentleman had said there was no remedy the United States could apply but what was incompatible with the laws of the individual States. Mr. S. presumed that until he saw the mode to be adopted, he could not say whether it was easy or difficult. On the whole, he thought to postpone the subject could answer no good end, while it might delay the object, and do injury.

Mr. COIT said, very probably the resources of his mind may not be equal to that gentleman's, he therefore wished the subject to be delayed that he might have time to get into the knowledge of the business.

Mr. COIT'S motion for postponement was then put and carried--yeas 46, nays 30.

_Hugh Lawson White._

Mr. BLOUNT then called for the order of the day on the report of the Secretary of War on the petition of Hugh Lawson White, a soldier under General Sevier, against the Indians. The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole.

The following report from the Committee of Claims was then read:

That the claim set forth in the said petition, is intended
to establish a principle that will apply to the whole of
the militia which were called out under Brigadier General
Sevier, in 1793, to act offensively against certain Indians
south-west of the Ohio.

That the expedition against these Indians, as appears from
the muster-rolls, comprehended a period of above five
months, or from the 22d July to 31st December, 1793.

That it was undertaken without authority derived from the
President, under the laws of the United States, and for the
avowed purpose of carrying the war into the Cherokee
country.

That the tenor of the instructions from the Department of
War to the Governor of the South-western Territory forbade
offensive operations.

Having given these facts, it may be proper to add, that it
appears, by a recurrence to official papers, that the
Indians had greatly perplexed and harassed by thefts and
murders, the frontier inhabitants of Tennessee; and
previous to the service, for which compensation is
demanded, had shown themselves in considerable force, and
killed at two stations (one of them within seven miles of
Knoxville) fifteen persons, including women and children:
that it must rest with Congress to judge how far these
aggressions of Indians, and such other circumstances as can
be adduced to the parties, constitute a case of imminent
danger, or the expedition a just and necessary measure.