Chapter V: Part 5

Dr. JONES. The tube is connected to a bottle whereby it aerates in the chest from a pneumothorax and as the patient breathes, the air is forced out under the water and produces somewhat of a suction so that the lung will reexpand and will not stay collapsed and this will give adequate aeration to the body, and we decided to go ahead and put in a chest tube on the opposite side; since I could not reach the opposite side due to the number of people that were working on the President. Dr. Baxter was over there helping Dr. Perry on that side, as well as Dr. Paul Peters, the assistant head of urology here, and the three of us then inserted the chest tube on the right side, primarily done by Dr. Baxter and Dr. Peters on the right side.

Mr. SPECTER. Then what other treatment, if any, was afforded President Kennedy?

Dr. JONES. After the tracheotomy was done, the intravenous fluid, blood was started--I believe that the President was also administered some hydrocortisone because of his history of adrenal insufficiency, and at this time an electrocardiogram had been connected and it showed no evidence of a heartbeat. Closed cardiac massage was then first begun by Dr. Perry and then I believe that after about 5 minutes no significant or no myocardial activity was present and he was pronounced dead.

Mr. SPECTER. What history did you refer to of President Kennedy's adrenal insufficiency?

Dr. JONES. As I recall, there had been in news that the President had several years ago been on some type of steroid therapy and that he possibly had Addison's disease. We had no documented evidence that he did or did not, but caution was taken nonetheless in case his insufficiency was of severe enough nature, because at the time of severe trauma a patient with adrenal insufficiency often goes into a rapid degree of adrenal insufficiency and can expire from lack of steroids being produced from the adrenal gland in such a stressed situation.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you obtain that history from Mrs. Kennedy, or any other person on the scene?

Dr. JONES. No.

Mr. SPECTER. You just relied upon what had been occurring in the news?

Dr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. What would that reaction cause, if anything, if the President had no adrenal insufficiency?

Dr. JONES. This would not cause severe effects on any organ at all if the adrenal gland were producing enough steroids.

Mr. SPECTER. Did any other doctors arrive during the time this treatment was going on, other than those whom you have already mentioned?

Dr. JONES. Several doctors did subsequently appear in the room--Dr. McClelland appeared shortly after Dr. Baxter, within a matter of just a very few minutes, as well as Dr. Kemp Clark, who is head of neurosurgery here.

Mr. SPECTER. Any other doctors?

Dr. JONES. Dr. Jenkins was there and I think these are primarily the ones that actually had any part, as far as taking care of the President, although there were some other doctors in the room.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Jones, I now hand you a report which purports to bear your signature, labeled "Summary of treatment of the President," dated November 23, 1963, which I shall now ask the Court Reporter to mark as Dr. Jones' Exhibit No. 1.

(Instrument mentioned marked by the Reporter as Dr. Jones' Exhibit No. 1, for identification.)

Mr. SPECTER. I ask you if this in fact is your signature?

Dr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And I ask you if this was the report which you submitted concerning your participation of the treatment of President Kennedy?

Dr. JONES. Yes; it was.

Mr. SPECTER. In this report, Dr. Jones, you state the following, "Previously described severe skull and brain injury was noted as well as a small hole in anterior midline of the neck thought to be a bullet entrance wound." What led you to the thought that it was a bullet entrance wound, sir?

Dr. JONES. The hole was very small and relatively clean cut, as you would see in a bullet that is entering rather than exiting from a patient. If this were an exit wound, you would think that it exited at a very low velocity to produce no more damage than this had done, and if this were a missile of high velocity, you would expect more of an explosive type of exit wound, with more tissue destruction than this appeared to have on superficial examination.

Mr. SPECTER. Would it be consistent, then, with an exit wound, but of low velocity, as you put it?

Dr. JONES. Yes; of very low velocity to the point that you might think that this bullet barely made it through the soft tissues and just enough to drop out of the skin on the opposite side.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your experience, Doctor, if any, in the treatment of bullet wounds?

Dr. JONES. During our residency here we have approximately 1 complete year out of the 4 years on the trauma service here, and this is in addition to the 2 months that we spend every other day and every other night in the emergency room during our first year, so that we see a tremendous number of bullet wounds here in that length of time, sometimes as many as four and five a night.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever had any formal training in bullet wounds?

Dr. JONES. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever had occasion to observe a bullet wound which was inflicted by a missile at approximate size of a 6.5 mm. bullet which passed through the body of a person and exited from a neck without striking anything but soft tissue from the back through the neck, where the missile came from a weapon of the muzzle velocity of 2,000 feet per second, and the victim was in the vicinity of 160 to 250 feet from the weapon?

Dr. JONES. No; I have not seen a missile of this velocity exit in the anterior portion of the neck. I have seen it in other places of the body, but not in the neck.

Mr. SPECTER. What other places in the body have you seen it, Dr. Jones?

Dr. JONES. I have seen it in the extremity and here it produces a massive amount of soft tissue destruction.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that in the situation of struck bone or not struck bone or what?

Dr. JONES. Probably where it has struck bone.

Mr. SPECTER. In a situation where it strikes bone, however, the bone becomes so to speak a secondary missile, does it not, in accentuating the soft tissue damage?

Dr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Jones, did you have any speculative thought as to accounting for the point of wounds which you observed on the President, as you thought about it when you were treating the President that day, or shortly thereafter?

Dr. JONES. With no history as to the number of times that the President had been shot or knowing the direction from which he had been shot, and seeing the wound in the midline of the neck, and what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull, the only speculation that I could have as far as to how this could occur with a single wound would be that it would enter the anterior neck and possibly strike a vertebral body and then change its course and exit in the region of the posterior portion of the head. However, this was--there was some doubt that a missile that appeared to be of this high velocity would suddenly change its course by striking, but at the present--at that time, if I accounted for it on the basis of one shot, that would have been the way I accounted for it.

Mr. SPECTER. And would that account take into consideration the extensive damage done to the top of the President's head?

Dr. JONES. If this were the course of the missile, it probably--possibly could have accounted for it, although I would possibly expect it to do a tremendous amount of damage to the vertebral column that it hit and if this were a high velocity missile would also think that the entrance wound would probably be larger than the one that was present at the time we saw it.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe whether or not there was any damage to the vertebral column?

Dr. JONES. No, we could not see this.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you discuss this theory with any other doctor or doctors?

Dr. JONES. Yes; this was discussed after the assassination.

Mr. SPECTER. With whom?

Dr. JONES. With Dr. Perry--is the only one that I recall specifically, and that was merely as to how many times the President was shot, because even immediately after death, within a matter of 30 minutes, the possibility of a second gunshot wound was entertained and that possibly he had been shot more than once.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any wound on the President's back?

Dr. JONES. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Was the President ever turned over?

Dr. JONES. Not while I was in the room.

Mr. SPECTER. What was he on when you first saw him?

Dr. JONES. He was on an emergency room cart, which is on wheels and can be changed to varying heights and also varying positions, as far as elevating the head or elevating the feet, lowering the head and so forth.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he ever taken off that cart from the time he was brought into the emergency room to the time he was pronounced to be dead?

Dr. JONES. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor, are you working toward board certification at this time?

Dr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your status on your progress with that, generally?

Dr. JONES. I will finish my formal training in surgery in July of this year, which will complete 5 years of general surgery residency.

Mr. SPECTER. How old are you at the present time, Dr. Jones?

Dr. JONES. Thirty-one.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you discussed this matter with any representatives of the Federal Government prior to today?

Dr. JONES. Yes, I believe the Secret Service has been here on at least two occasions.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did they ask you on those occasions?

Dr. JONES. I think, primarily, to verify that what I had written was true and that I had been one of the first doctors to be in the room with the President.

Mr. SPECTER. Did they ask you anything else other than that?

Dr. JONES. On one occasion they asked if there were any other pieces of paper that had been written on as to the care that had been administered to the President that I had not turned in, and I told them "No."

Mr. SPECTER. And did you and I sit down and talk for a few minutes before we went on the record in this deposition, with me indicating to you the general purpose and the line of questioning, and you setting forth the same information which we have put on the record here today?

Dr. JONES. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think might be helpful to the Commission in any way?

Dr. JONES. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. That concludes the deposition. Thank you very much, Dr. Jones.

Dr. JONES. All right.

TESTIMONY OF DR. DON TEEL CURTIS

The testimony of Dr. Don Teel Curtis was taken at 9:25 a.m., on March 24, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that present are Dr. Don Curtis and the court reporter, in connection with the deposition proceeding being conducted by the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, which is inquiring into all facets of the assassination, including the medical treatment performed for President Kennedy.

Dr. Don Curtis is appearing here this morning in response to a letter requesting him to testify concerning his knowledge of that medical treatment of President Kennedy. With that preliminary statement of the general objective of the Commission and the specific objective of this deposition proceeding, Dr. Curtis, will you rise and raise your right hand, please?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before this Presidential Commission in this deposition proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Dr. CURTIS. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. CURTIS. Dr. Don Teel, T-e-e-l (spelling) Curtis.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your occupation or profession?

Dr. CURTIS. Oral surgeon.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline briefly your educational background?

Dr. CURTIS. I attended my freshman year at Boulder, Colo., Colorado University, 2 subsequent years of undergraduate work at Texas University, 4 years at Baylor Dental College, and I have been interning here for a year and a half.

Mr. SPECTER. What year did you graduate from Baylor Dental College?

Dr. CURTIS. 1962.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your age at the present time?

Dr. CURTIS. Twenty-six.

Mr. SPECTER. And what has your work consisted of here at Parkland Hospital?

Dr. CURTIS. I have functioned as an intern in oral surgery and also now am a resident this year in oral surgery.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you a licensed dentist?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And when did you obtain that status in the State of Texas?

Dr. CURTIS. I think in August of 1962.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to assist in the medical treatment of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline briefly the circumstances surrounding your call or your joining in the participation in that medical effort?

Dr. CURTIS. I was--do you want me to tell from the time that I got to the emergency room?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes--how did you happen to get to the emergency room?

Dr. CURTIS. I was in our out-patient clinic and saw the President's car, or I saw that it had arrived at the emergency room entrance, and I went over there as a matter of curiosity and was directed into the emergency room and there was directed by a policeman into the room where President Kennedy was.

Mr. SPECTER. About what time was that?

Dr. CURTIS. I don't know--it was shortly after he arrived.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how long after he arrived?

Dr. CURTIS. I would say it was within--I would say within a minute after he arrived at the trauma room, although there's no way for me to know that.

Mr. SPECTER. Who was present in the trauma room at that time?

Dr. CURTIS. Dr. Carrico and a nurse, I believe.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the identity of the nurse?

Dr. CURTIS. No.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe, if anything, as to the condition of President Kennedy at that time?

Dr. CURTIS. I observed that he was in a supine position, with his head extended, and I couldn't see on my arrival--I couldn't see the nature of the wounds, however, Dr. Carrico was standing at the patient's head. Dr. Carrico had just placed an endotracheal tube and I participated in applying the Bird machine respirator into the endotracheal tube for artificial respiration.

Mr. SPECTER. How does it happen that you would participate to that effect in view of the fact that you are an oral surgeon?

Dr. CURTIS. We participate in the emergency room on traumatic injuries of both the face and the entire patient, because the face is hooked onto a patient. We have a tour through anesthesia. We spend time on general anesthesia where we learn management of the patient's airway which makes us, I would say, qualified, for airway management. In our training here at the hospital we many, many times have patients on intravenous infusion and so we are well acquainted with the procedures attendant with the management of I.V. fluids.

Mr. SPECTER. Is there always someone from oral surgery available at the trauma area?

Dr. CURTIS. One of the oral surgeons is on call at the emergency room at all times and we try to stay within a very short distance from the emergency room. We see many patients in the emergency room area.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that for the purpose of rendering aid for someone who would be injured in a way which would call for an oral surgeon?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes--maxillofacial injuries.

Mr. SPECTER. And in addition, you help out in a general way when there is an emergency situation?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, was there anything in President Kennedy's condition which called for the application of your specific specialty?

Dr. CURTIS. No; there wasn't.

Mr. SPECTER. So, you aided in a general way in the treatment of him as an emergency case?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, would you continue to tell me what you have observed with respect to his condition when you first saw him, including what you noted, if anything, with respect to his respiration.

Dr. CURTIS. It is very difficult to say whether or not the President was making a respiratory effort, but I'm not sure that he wasn't making a respiratory effort.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you think that he was making a respiratory effort?

Dr. CURTIS. He could have been, and that's as far as I can go on it.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe movements of the chest?

Dr. CURTIS. I thought I did.

Mr. SPECTER. What was his coloring?

Dr. CURTIS. He was pink--he wasn't cyanotic when I saw him.

Mr. SPECTER. And will you explain in lay terms what cyanotic means for the record at this point?

Dr. CURTIS. When the hemoglobin of the blood is reduced, it turns a blue color and the patient becomes blue, when a certain percentage of the hemoglobin is reduced. That's not a lay term either, but when the patient is in oxygen need or oxygen want, cyanosis would be apparent.

Mr. SPECTER. And how does that manifest itself in the patient?

Dr. CURTIS. The patient will be a blue, gray, ashen color.

Mr. SPECTER. What action was Dr. Carrico taking upon your arrival?

Dr. CURTIS. He had placed an endotracheal tube in the President's trachea for artificial respiration.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he doing anything else?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes; he was applying the Bird machine.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe what other steps he was taking, if any?

Dr. CURTIS. He directed that a tracheotomy setup be brought to the emergency room, and I think it was Dr. Carrico directed me to start the I.V. fluids.

Mr. SPECTER. And what, if anything, did you do in response to his direction?

Dr. CURTIS. I assisted him in fitting the tube from the Bird machine to the endotracheal tube and I assisted in removing some of the President's clothes and did the cutdown on his leg.

Mr. SPECTER. And what, specifically, did you do pursuant to the cutdown on his leg?

Dr. CURTIS. A small incision was made on the ankle and a vein is bluntly dissected free, small holes placed in the vein and a venous catheter is placed in this vein and a purse string ligature is then tied around the catheter at one end, and then the wound was closed with sutures.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you do anything else to the President following that operative procedure?

Dr. CURTIS. Then, the initial cutdown that I started was ineffective and infiltrated into the tissues. I think possibly I cut the knot too close of the purse string ligature, so I was getting ready to do another one and it was decided since fluids were going in the other leg, it wouldn't be necessary.

Mr. SPECTER. What other action did you take, if any, in the treatment of the President?

Dr. CURTIS. That's all.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you remain in the trauma room No. 1?

Dr. CURTIS. I did until he was pronounced dead.

Mr. SPECTER. What action was taken by anyone else in the trauma room while you were there?

Dr. CURTIS. My attention was focused on what I was doing, so I wasn't aware--I knew that a cutdown was being performed and that is about all I could see. I mean, I knew that a tracheotomy was being performed.

Mr. SPECTER. What other doctors were present there at that time?

Dr. CURTIS. I know that Dr. Perry was there and I know Dr. Baxter was there, and then I recall Dr. Jenkins from the Anesthesia Department, and Dr. Seldin, Dr. Crenshaw, and that's about all the doctors--I could think of others probably, but I can't remember now.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you identify any other nurses who were there?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I can't--I wasn't paying attention to the nurses.

Mr. SPECTER. During the course of your presence near President Kennedy, did you have any opportunity to observe any wounds on his body?

Dr. CURTIS. After I had completed the cutdown, I went around to the right side of the patient and saw the head wound.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did you observe there?

Dr. CURTIS. Oh--fragments of bone and a gross injury to the cranial contents, with copious amounts of hemorrhage.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any other wound on the President?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I didn't. As I said before, I noticed the mass in the pre-tracheal area.

Mr. SPECTER. And when you say "as you said before," you mean in our previous discussions prior to going on the record here?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And will you state now for the record what you did notice with respect to the tracheal area?

Dr. CURTIS. The President's head was extended or hyperextended and I noticed that in the suprasternal notch there was a mass that looked like a hematoma to me, or a blood clot in the tissues.

Mr. SPECTER. How big was that hematoma?

Dr. CURTIS. Oh, I think it was 5 cm. in size.

Mr. SPECTER. What color was it?

Dr. CURTIS. It had no color--there was just skin overlying it.

Mr. SPECTER. What did it appear to be?

Dr. CURTIS. Probably a hematoma.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any perforation or hole in the President's throat?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I didn't. But that doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have an opportunity to look closely for it?

Dr. CURTIS. I focused my attention on his neck for an instant, and that's all.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear any discussion among any of the doctors about an opening on his neck?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I didn't.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any written report concerning your activity on the President?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I didn't.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you any notes or writings of any sort concerning your work with the President?

Dr. CURTIS. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to any representatives of the Federal Government about your participation in treating President Kennedy before today?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I haven't.

Mr. SPECTER. Prior to the time that we went on the record here with the court reporter, did you and I have a very brief conversation concerning the purpose of the deposition and the general questions which I would ask you on the record?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And is the information which you have provided on the record the same as that which you gave me before the court reporter started taking notes?

Dr. CURTIS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think would be helpful to the Commission in its work?

Dr. CURTIS. No; I don't think so.

Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much, Dr. Curtis, for coming here today.

Dr. CURTIS. All right.

TESTIMONY OF DR. FOUAD A. BASHOUR

The testimony of Dr. Fouad A. Bashour was taken at 1:15 p.m., on March 25, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. Fouad Bashour has appeared pursuant to a letter of request from the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, in connection with the Commission's inquiry into all of the factors surrounding the assassination of the President, including medical treatment received at Parkland Hospital, and Dr. Bashour's knowledge, if any, as related to the treatment in the emergency room.

With that preliminary statement of purpose, Dr. Bashour, would you mind rising and then raise your right hand?

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before the President's Commission in this deposition proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Dr. BASHOUR. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. BASHOUR. F-o-u-a-d (spelling), Fouad A. Bashour.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession, sir?

Mr. BASHOUR. I am an internist with a specialization in cardiology. I am associate professor of medicine.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you duly licensed by the State of Texas to practice medicine here?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you board certified at the present time?

Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir; I don't have my board because I am not yet a citizen. I will be taking my citizenship this year, I hope, and then I will be able to sit for the board.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to assist in the treatment of President Kennedy back on November 22, 1963?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes; we were called from the dining room, the doctors' dining room, and we went directly to the President Kennedy room.

Mr. SPECTER. When you say "we" whom do you mean by that?

Dr. BASHOUR. Dr. Seldin and myself--we left the dining room and went right straight down to the President's room.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is Dr. Seldin's first name?

Dr. BASHOUR. Donald.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is his specialty, if any?

Dr. BASHOUR. He's chairman of the department of medicine and professor of medicine. He is a specialist and a recognized famous specialist in renal diseases.

Mr. SPECTER. And what, in lay language, does that facet of medicine involve?

Dr. BASHOUR. Kidney diseases.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Dr. Seldin accompany you into the emergency room where President Kennedy was located?

Dr. BASHOUR. We went to the room together and then I was left alone because this is a problem--a heart problem.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Dr. Seldin remain in the room with you?

Dr. BASHOUR. Well, he came and stayed for--he just left the room after we came in.

Mr. SPECTER. How long did he stay in the room?

Dr. BASHOUR. A few seconds.

Mr. SPECTER. Who was present in the room when you arrived?

Dr. BASHOUR. When I arrived, Dr. Kemp Clark was doing the cardiac massage on the President, Dr. Jenkins was in charge of controlling artificial respiration of the President, and the probably there were some three or four--I don't remember.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did you observe the President's condition to be at the time you arrived?

Dr. BASHOUR. The President was lying on the stretcher, the head wound was massive, the blood was dripping from the head, and at that time the President had an endotracheal tube, and his pupils were dilated, his eyes were staring, and they were not reactive, there was no pulsations, his heart sounds were not present, and his extremities were cold.

Then, we attached the scope--the cardioscope and there was a flip, this was probably artificial. Upon stopping the cardiac machine, there was no cardiac activity. That means the heart was standing still. We continued cardiac massage and still there was no cardiac activities, so the President was declared dead shortly thereafter.

Mr. SPECTER. At approximately what time was he declared dead?

Dr. BASHOUR. Well, according to my notes, we said here, "Declared dead about 12:55," or so.

Mr. SPECTER. Was that a precise time fixed or was that just a general approximation?

Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir; approximation.

Mr. SPECTER. When you refer to the "flip" what do you mean by that, Dr. Bashour?

Dr. BASHOUR. On the scope--some change in the baseline of the scope.

Mr. SPECTER. Did that indicate some activity in the President's heart?

Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir; not necessarily.

Mr. SPECTER. What else could have accounted for the flip besides that?

Dr. BASHOUR. Anything extraneous could have accounted for that.

Mr. SPECTER. So, you require a number of flips before you inquire if there is heart activity?

Dr. BASHOUR. Well, it depends on the configuration of the flip--if the flip resembles an electrocardiogram activity--it shows cardiac activity.

Mr. SPECTER. Was that configuration of the flip like heart activity or not?

Dr. BASHOUR. It wasn't, as far as I know.

Mr. SPECTER. That is your field, is it not, you read those flips?

Dr. BASHOUR. Well, it's my field to see the electrocardiograms; yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And, in your professional opinion, the flip which you saw was not a conclusive indicator of heart activity?

Dr. BASHOUR. As a matter of fact, when he removed his hand, there was nothing.

Mr. SPECTER. And who is "he"?

Dr. BASHOUR. Dr. Clark, who was doing the cardiac massage.

Mr. SPECTER. What else was done to the President, if anything, in addition to those things you have already mentioned after you arrived on the scene?

Dr. BASHOUR. Really, as far as I know, it was the end of the scene--nothing was done afterward.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any wound besides the head wound which you have just described?

Dr. BASHOUR. No; I did not observe any wounds.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the condition of the front part of the President's neck upon your arrival?

Dr. BASHOUR. The only thing--it was covered with the endotracheal tube--I did not really pay attention to it.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have an opportunity to see the neck wound before the tracheotomy was performed?

Dr. BASHOUR. No; I came after everything was done to him.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor, I show you a group of papers heretofore marked as "Commission Exhibit No. 392," and I call your attention to the photostatic copy of a sheet which purports to be a report made by you on November 22, 1963, at 4:45 p.m., is that your report?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And is that in fact your signature?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And are the facts set forth therein the essence of what you observed and what you know about this matter?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to anyone from the Federal Government prior to today about your treatment of President Kennedy?

Dr. BASHOUR. There was a security officer or something called me on the phone one day and said did I write any note besides this note on the chart, and I said "No." I don't know his name even.

Mr. SPECTER. What note was he referring to?

Dr. BASHOUR. This note here.

Mr. SPECTER. He asked you if you wrote what?

Dr. BASHOUR. Other notes than this.

Mr. SPECTER. If you had any other notes?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And do you have any other notes other than the one I have just shown you?

Dr. BASHOUR. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Did the Secret Service agent ask you anything else other than that?

Dr. BASHOUR. No.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you talk to any other representative of the Federal Government on any occasion prior to today?

Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And, did you and I talk for a few minutes about the type of questions I would be asking you during this deposition?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And is the information which you have given me on the record here and written down by the court reporter the same as you told me before she arrived?

Dr. BASHOUR. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And, will you give me just an outline of your educational background, Doctor?

Dr. BASHOUR. I got my baccalaureate from French Government in 1941--first part. I got my second part, baccalaureate in mathematics and science in 1942, I got my B.A. degree in 1944 from the American University of Beirut, my M.D. degree in 1949, and my Ph. D. in 1957 from the University of Minnesota. I came back to this country in 1959 from the American University of Beirut, as an instructor, and from 1959 to 1963 I jumped from instructor to assistant professor to associate professor in February 1963.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think will be helpful in any way to the President's Commission?

Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much for coming, Dr. Bashour.

Dr. BASHOUR. Thank you very much.

TESTIMONY OF DR. GENE COLEMAN AKIN

The testimony of Dr. Gene Coleman Akin was taken at 11:30 a.m., on March 25, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. Gene Akin is present in response to a letter request that he appear to have his deposition taken in connection with an inquiry being conducted by the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Dr. Akin is being asked to appear here today to testify concerning his knowledge, if any, about the condition of President Kennedy on arrival in Parkland Hospital and his treatment here.

With that preliminary statement of purpose, Dr. Akin, will you rise and raise your right hand, please?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give before the President's Commission in this deposition proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Dr. AKIN. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name, please?

Dr. AKIN. Gene Coleman Akin.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession?

Dr. AKIN. Medicine.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you duly licensed to practice in Texas, to practice medicine?

Dr. AKIN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any specialty?

Dr. AKIN. Anesthesiology.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you board-certified?

Dr. AKIN. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you working toward board-certification?

Dr. AKIN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline briefly your educational background?

Dr. AKIN. Premedical school at University of Texas in Austin, medical school, Southwestern Medical School Branch of the University of Texas, internship, Dallas Methodist Hospital, and anesthesiology residence at Parkland Memorial Hospital, starting in July 1962.

Mr. SPECTER. And, in what year did you graduate from medical school?

Dr. AKIN. 1961.

Mr. SPECTER. And how old are you at the present time, Doctor?

Dr. AKIN. Thirty-four.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to render assistance to President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963?

Dr. AKIN. Briefly.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you state how you came to be called into the case?

Dr. AKIN. I was notified while I was on duty in the operating suite of the hospital that anesthesia assistance was needed in the emergency room. President Kennedy supposedly had been shot and had been brought to the emergency room, and I immediately went down the back elevator to the emergency room to see if I could be of assistance, and when I walked in, a tracheotomy was being performed. President Kennedy still had an endotracheal tube, an oro-tracheal tube in place, and the connector from this to the Bird respirator was removed. The anesthesia machine had been simultaneously rolled into the room and Dr. Jenkins connected the anesthesia machine to the oro-tracheal tube and it stayed there for a brief period, until the tracheotomy tube was placed in the tracheotomy, at which time I connected the breathing tubes from the anesthesia machine to the tracheotomy and held this in place while Dr. Jenkins controlled the ventilation with 100-percent oxygen from the anesthesia machine.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you assist Dr. Jenkins then in his work?

Dr. AKIN. Only insofar as I held the endotracheal connector in place into the tracheotomy tube.

Mr. SPECTER. What doctors in addition to Dr. Jenkins then were present, if any, at the time of your arrival?

Dr. AKIN. You mean everybody in the room? I don't know that I can name all of them.

Mr. SPECTER. Name as many as you can, if you will, please?

Dr. AKIN. There was Dr. Jenkins, there was myself for a brief period, there was Dr. Giesecke, Dr. Jackie Hunt--they left shortly after arriving. I heard later that they had gone across the hall to Governor Connally's room to assist him; Dr. Malcolm Perry, Dr. Charles Baxter, Dr. Kemp Clark, Dr. Bob McClelland, Dr. James Carrico, Dr. Ron Jones, was there. I think, shortly after I arrived, and Dr. Fouad Bashour came in from cardiology; Dr. Don Seldin walked in briefly, I can't remember the team that worked on the cutdowns on the legs--I can't remember that. This is sort of hazy, because it was a couple of days later we went through the same business over again and I am liable to say that there was somebody there that worked on Kennedy that actually had worked on Oswald, because I was on the Oswald mess too. This is all that I remember were positively there. I remember their being there, but there were others that I am not sure of.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to the President's condition?

Dr. AKIN. He looked moribund in my medical judgment.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any wounds on him at the time you first saw him?

Dr. AKIN. There was a midline neck wound below the level of the cricoid cartilage, about 1 to 1.5 cm. in diameter, the lower part of this had been cut across when I saw the wound, it had been cut across with a knife in the performance of the tracheotomy. The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered, with brain substance extruding.

Mr. SPECTER. Returning to the wound which you first described, can you state in any more detail the appearance of it at the time you first saw it?

Dr. AKIN. I don't think I could--this is about all I noticed. I noticed this wound very briefly and it was a matter of academics as to how he sustained the wound. My attention, because of my standing on the right side of the patient who was lying supine, my attention was very soon directed to the head wound, and this was my major concern.

Mr. SPECTER. And as to the neck wound, did you have occasion to observe whether there was a smooth, jagged, or what was the nature of the portion of the neck wound, which had not been cut by the tracheotomy?

Dr. AKIN. It was slightly ragged around the edges.

Mr. SPECTER. And when you said that----

Dr. AKIN. No powder burns; I didn't notice any powder burns.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the dimension of the punctate wound, without regards to the tracheotomy which was being started?

Dr. AKIN. It looked--it was as you said, it was a punctate wound. It was roughly circular, about, I would judge, 1.5 cm. in diameter.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you mean when you just made your reference to the academic aspect with the wound, Dr. Akin?

Dr. AKIN. Well, naturally, the thought flashed through my mind that this might have been an entrance wound. I immediately thought it could also have been an exit wound, depending upon the nature of the missile that made the wound.

Mr. SPECTER. What would be the circumstances on which it might be one or the other?

Dr. AKIN. Well, if the President had been shot with a low velocity missile, such as fire from a pistol, it was more likely to have been an entrance wound, is that what you mean?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Dr. AKIN. If, however, he had been shot with a high velocity military type of rifle, for example, it could be either an entrance wound or an exit wound.

Mr. SPECTER. Why do you say it could be either an entrance wound or an exit wound with respect to the rifle?

Dr. AKIN. Well, because a high velocity missile coming from a military rifle, especially if the missile were a jacketed missile, a copper- or steel-jacketed missile, itself, the missile itself is not distorted when it passes through soft tissue, and the wound made when the bullet leaves the body, is a small wound, much like the wound of entrance, but like I said, I didn't devote much time to conjecture about this.

Mr. SPECTER. How much experience have you had, if any, on gunshot wounds, doctor?

Dr. AKIN. I can't really give you, say, how many cases a week I see of this. Most of my experience with this is in an anesthetic situation with patients coming into the hospital, having sustained gunshot injuries, most of them are injured with low velocity missiles, smaller caliber--.22 caliber to .38 caliber, and most of them are not injured in a through and through fashion. In other words, I don't see too many exit wounds, the bullets are slow moving, and they enter the body and don't leave it. They usually stay in it, so consequently I could not be considered an expert in exit wounds.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that the general line of bullet wounds which come into Parkland Hospital, would you say?

Dr. AKIN. What I have just described, you mean?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Dr. AKIN. Yes; I think so. Most of the people seem to be shot with cheap ammunition fired out of inferior weapons.

Mr. SPECTER. Would your experience with the type of bullet wounds you have just described be about the same as the other doctors have here at Parkland, or would there be some difference between what you have seen on bullet wounds and what the other doctors have seen?

Dr. AKIN. I think so, except there is one difference--I am not ordinarily on duty in the emergency room, so I am not very often the first doctor to see one of these people injured in this fashion. When I see them they are people who have sustained a gunshot injury, but who lived to make it to the operating room. We, I'm sure, have a lot of people who are shot and who are dead on arrival at the emergency room, and they are examined by the emergency room physicians, and I never see them, so there would be a lot of people down there that I never have seen. They might be injured with a hunting rifle or a good quality ammunition, and I would not have seen them.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Akin, permit me, if you will, to give you a set of facts which I will ask you to assume for the purpose of giving me an opinion, if you are able to formulate one. Assume that the President was struck by a 6.5 mm. missile which had a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second at a time when the President was approximately 160 to 250 feet away from the weapon. Assume further that the bullet entered the President's body in the upper right posterior thorax just above the upper border of the scapula at a point 14 cm. from the tip of the right acromion process and 14 cm. below the tip of the right mastoid process. Assume further that the missile traveled through or in between, rather, the strap muscles without penetrating either muscle but going in between the two in the area of his back and traveled through the fascial channel without violating the pleura cavity, and that the bullet struck the side of the trachea and exited from the throat in the position of the punctate wound which you have described you saw, would the wound you saw be consistent with a wound of exit under the factors that I have just outlined to you?

Dr. AKIN. As far as I know, it is perfectly compatible from what you have described, except when you say it passed through without injuring the strap muscles, are you talking about the anterior strap muscles of the neck or are you talking about the posterior muscles of the neck?

Mr. SPECTER. The anterior strap muscles of the neck.

Dr. AKIN. It's a matter of clarification because there are no strap muscles posterior, by my terminology. Yes, this is perfectly consistent with what I know about, or what I have been told by military experts, concerning high velocity missile injuries.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is the basis of your information from the military experts you just referred to?

Dr. AKIN. Military rifle demonstrations when I was a senior student at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio. We took a brief two day tour there with demonstrations of high velocity missile injury.

Mr. SPECTER. With respect to the head wound, Dr. Akin, did you observe below the gaping wound which you have described any other bullet wound in the back of the head?

Dr. AKIN. No; I didn't. I could not see the back of the President's head as such, and the right posterior neck was obscured by blood and skull fragments and I didn't make any attempt to examine the neck.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opportunity to observe the President's clothes?

Dr. AKIN. I noticed them.

Mr. SPECTER. With respect to examining the shirt, for example, to see what light that would shed, if any, on the trajectory of the bullet?

Dr. AKIN. No; I didn't. The front of the chest was uncovered, the pants had been loosened and lowered below the iliac crest, and the only article of clothing I noticed in particular was his back corset.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe with respect to the back corset which you just mentioned?

Dr. AKIN. It had been loosened and was just lying loose.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the corset, indicating how wide it was?

Dr. AKIN. The only portion I saw was the front portion of the corset and it was about, I'd say, 5 or 6 inches in width, and made out of some white heavy fabric with the usual straps and buckles.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice any Ace bandage strapping the President's buttocks area?

Dr. AKIN. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Was that area of his anatomy visible to you?

Dr. AKIN. Not his buttocks, he was lying supine.

Mr. SPECTER. Was President Kennedy ever turned over, to your knowledge?

Dr. AKIN. Not while I was there.

Mr. SPECTER. And how long were you there altogether, Dr. Akin?

Dr. AKIN. Oh, probably 15, maybe 20--perhaps 20 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you present when he was pronounced to be dead?

Dr. AKIN. Yes--I didn't leave until Dr. Clark and Dr. Jenkins had mutually agreed that nothing else could be done.

Mr. SPECTER. What time was he pronounced dead?

Dr. AKIN. 1300 hours.

Mr. SPECTER. And what, in your opinion, was the cause of death?

Dr. AKIN. Massive gunshot injury to the brain--primary cause.

Mr. SPECTER. You have already described some of the treatment which was performed on the President; could you supplement that by describing what else was done for the President?

Dr. AKIN. Other than the placement of chest tubes, artificial respiration, brief external cardiac massage--I don't know. Anything else I said would be hearsay, and I understand that he did receive some cortisone. He received so much Ringer's lactate, but this is not of my own personal knowledge.

Mr. SPECTER. How many bullets were involved in the wounds inflicted on the President, Dr. Akin?

Dr. AKIN. Probably two.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever changed any of your original opinions in connection with your observations of the President or any opinions you formed in connection with what you saw?

Dr. AKIN. You mean as to how he was injured?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, as to how he was injured.

Dr. AKIN. Well, no; not really because I didn't have any opinions, necessarily. Any speculation that I might have done about how he was injured was just that, it was just speculation. I didn't form an opinion until it was revealed where he was when he was injured and where the alleged assassin was when he fired the shots, so I didn't have any opinions. It was my immediate assumption that when I saw the extent of the head wound, I assumed at that point that he had probably been hit in the head with a high velocity missile because of the damage that had been done. The same thing happened to his head and would happen to a sealed can of sauerkraut that you hit with a high velocity missile.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opinion as to the direction that the bullet hit his head?

Dr. AKIN. I assume that the right occipitalparietal region was the exit, so to speak, that he had probably been hit on the other side of the head, or at least tangentially in the back of the head, but I didn't have any hard and fast opinions about that either.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you been interviewed by any representative of the Federal Government prior to today?

Dr. AKIN. You mean concerning this matter?

Mr. SPECTER. Concerning this matter.

Dr. AKIN. I think I was probably interviewed by a member of the Secret Service some weeks ago.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you say to him?

Dr. AKIN. Virtually the same thing, as I recall--I didn't make as long a statement, he just wanted to know where I was and what I did and I told him briefly and that seemed to satisfy him.

Mr. SPECTER. And is that the only time you have been interviewed by any representative of the Federal Government concerning this matter prior to today?

Dr. AKIN. Yes; as far as I can remember.

Mr. SPECTER. And before I started to take your deposition, did you and I have a very brief discussion about the nature of the deposition and the questions I would ask you?

Dr. AKIN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you give me about the same information, exactly the same information you have put on the record here this morning?

Dr. AKIN. To my knowledge; yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think might be of assistance to the President's Commission in their inquiry?

Dr. AKIN. No; I don't think so. I don't know exactly if there is any disagreement or discrepancy in the testimony from the various people who have testified, so I don't know. This is all I saw.

Mr. SPECTER. That's fine. Thank you very much, Dr. Akin.

Dr. AKIN. That's all right, thank you.

TESTIMONY OF DR. PAUL CONRAD PETERS

The testimony of Dr. Paul Conrad Peters was taken at 4 p.m., on March 24, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that Dr. Paul Peters is present, having responded to a request to have his deposition taken in connection with the investigation of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, which is investigating all aspects of the assassination, including the medical treatment of President Kennedy at Parkland Memorial Hospital, and for the latter sequence of events we have asked Dr. Peters to appear and testify what he knows, if anything, concerning that medical attention.

With that statement of purpose in calling you, Dr. Peters, may I ask you to rise and raise your right hand?

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before the President's Commission in this deposition proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Dr. PETERS. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. PETERS. Paul Conrad Peters.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your profession, sir?

Dr. PETERS. Doctor of medicine.

Mr. SPECTER. And will you outline for me briefly your educational background?

Dr. PETERS. I went to college at Indiana University in Bloomington, Ind., and received an A.B. degree from Indiana University in 1950, and received an M.D. degree from Indiana University in 1953. I took my internship at the Philadelphia General Hospital, 1953 and 1954. I took my residency in Urological Surgery at Indiana University from 1954 to 1957, and from 1957 to 1963 I was chief of Urology at U.S.A.F. Hospital, Carswell, which is the largest hospital in SAC, and I was regional consultant to the surgeon general in Urological surgery. Since July 1963, I have been assistant professor of Urology at Southwestern Medical School.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you board certified, Dr. Peters?

Dr. PETERS. I am certified by the American Board of Urology--1960.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to render medical services to President John Kennedy on November 22, 1963?

Dr. PETERS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you outline briefly the circumstances relating to your arriving on the scene where he was?

Dr. PETERS. As I just gave you a while ago?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Dr. PETERS. I was in the adjacent portion of the hospital preparing material for a lecture to the medical students and residents later in the day, when I heard over the radio that the President had been shot and there was a great deal of confusion at the time and the extent of his injuries was not immediately broadcast over the radio, and I thought, because of the description of the location of the tragedy he would probably be brought to Parkland for care, and so I went to the emergency room to see if I could render assistance.

Mr. SPECTER. And at about what time did you arrive at the emergency room?

Dr. PETERS. Well, could I ask a question or two?

Mr. SPECTER. Sure.