Chapter XI: Part 11

Mr. HILL. As I was leaving. And that is one of the reasons I jumped, because I saw him grab himself and pitch forward and to the left. I knew something was wrong.

Representative FORD. It was 5 seconds from the firecracker noise that you think you got to the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Until I reached the handhold, had placed my foot on the left rear step.

Mr. SPECTER. When, in relationship to the second shot, did Mrs. Kennedy move out of the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. Just after it.

Mr. SPECTER. You say that it appeared that she was reaching as if something was coming over to the rear portion of the car, back in the area where you were coming to?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything back there that you observed, that she might have been reaching for?

Mr. HILL. I thought I saw something come off the back, too, but I cannot say that there was. I do know that the next day we found the portion of the President's head.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did you find that portion of the President's head?

Mr. HILL. It was found in the street. It was turned in, I believe, by a medical student or somebody in Dallas.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any difficulty maintaining your balance on the back of the car after you had come up on the top of it?

Mr. HILL. Not until we turned off to enter the Parkland Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what action did you take specifically with respect to placing Mrs. Kennedy back in the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. I simply just pushed and she moved--somewhat voluntarily--right back into the same seat she was in. The President--when she had attempted to get out onto the trunk of the car, his body apparently did not move too much, because when she got back into the car he was at that time, when I got on top of the car, face up in her lap.

Mr. SPECTER. And that was after she was back in the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And where were the President's legs at that time?

Mr. HILL. Inside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what, if anything, did you observe as to the condition of Governor Connally at that time?

Mr. HILL. After going under this underpass, I looked forward to the jump seats, where Mrs. Connally and Governor Connally were sitting. Mrs. Connally had been leaning over her husband. And I had no idea that he had been shot. And when she leaned back at one time, I noticed that his coat was unbuttoned, and that the lower portion of his abdomen was completely covered with blood.

Mr. SPECTER. When was it that you first observed that?

Mr. HILL. Just after going under the underpass.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to observe anything which was occurring on the overpass as the President's motorcade moved toward the overpass?

Mr. HILL. From the time I got on the back of the Presidential limousine, I didn't really pay any attention to what was going on outside the automobile.

Mr. SPECTER. Had you noticed the overpass prior to the time you got on the Presidential automobile?

Mr. HILL. Yes; I had scanned it.

Mr. SPECTER. And do you recollect what, if anything, you observed on the overpass at that time?

Mr. HILL. There were some people there, but I also noticed there was a policeman there.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how many people would you say were there?

Mr. HILL. Very few, I would say--maybe five, six.

Mr. SPECTER. And how were you able to identify that there was a policeman there?

Mr. HILL. He was wearing the uniform--presumably a policeman.

Mr. SPECTER. What color uniform was it?

Mr. HILL. I think it was blue of some shade.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you identify it at that time as being of the identical color which other Dallas policemen were wearing whom you had observed in the area?

Mr. HILL. That's correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward--that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. In time or----

Mr. SPECTER. Time and distance.

Mr. HILL. Distance, I have no idea.

Mr. SPECTER. How about time?

Mr. HILL. I would say roughly 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything as you were proceeding from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off." Between there and the hospital she just said, "Jack, Jack, what have they done to you," and sobbed.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

Mr. SPECTER. Now, was there any other comment you heard Special Agent Kellerman make?

Mr. HILL. Not that I recall.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Special Agent Greer say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Was Governor Connally conscious?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; he was.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Governor Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did President Kennedy say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leg-hold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?

Mr. HILL. I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.

Mr. SPECTER. What action, if any, did you take to shield the President's body?

Mr. HILL. I kept myself above the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the trip to Parkland.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you do anything with your coat upon arrival at Parkland Hospital to shield the President?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I removed it and covered the President's head and upper chest.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you observe as to Governor Connally's condition on arrival at Parkland?

Mr. HILL. He was conscious. There was a large amount of blood in the lower abdominal area. He was helped from the automobile to the stretcher, and I do not recall him saying anything, but I know that he was conscious. He was wheeled immediately into, I think, emergency room No. 2.

Mr. SPECTER. And who was removed first from the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. How long after the President's car arrived at Parkland Hospital did medical personnel come to the scene to remove the victims?

Mr. HILL. Seconds. They were there when we were there almost--almost simultaneously with the arrival.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know where President Kennedy was taken in the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I accompanied he, and Mrs. Kennedy to the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, tell us what you did at the hospital from the time of arrival on, please.

Mr. HILL. I went into the emergency room with the President, but it was so small, and there were so many people in there that I decided I had better leave and let the doctors take care of the situation. So I walked outside; asked for the nearest telephone; walked to the nearest telephone. About that time Special Agent in Charge Kellerman came outside and said, "Get the White House."

I asked Special Agent Lawson for the local number in Dallas of the White House switchboard, which he gave to me. I called the switchboard in Dallas; asked for the line to be open to Washington, and remain open continuously. And then I asked for Special Agent in Charge Behn's office. Mr. Kellerman came out of the emergency room about that time, took the telephone and called Special Agent in Charge Behn that we had had a double tragedy; that both Governor Connally and President Kennedy had been shot. And that was about as much as he said. I then took the telephone and shortly thereafter Mr. Kellerman came out of the emergency room and said, "Clint, tell Jerry this is unofficial and not for release, but the man is dead." Which I did. During the two calls, I talked to the Attorney General, who attempted to reach me, and told him that his brother had been seriously wounded; that we would keep him advised as to his condition.

Mr. SPECTER. Where was Mrs. Kennedy all this time, if you know?

Mr. HILL. Immediately upon arrival, she went into the emergency room. And a few minutes afterward, she was convinced to wait outside, which she did, remained there the rest of the period of time that we were there.

Mr. SPECTER. And was there any pronouncement that the President had died?

Mr. HILL. Not that I know of. Apparently there was. I was requested by Mr. O'Donnell, one of the Presidential assistants, to obtain a casket, because they wanted to return to Washington immediately. I contacted the administrator of the hospital and asked him to take me where I could telephone the nearest mortuary, which I did, requested that their best available casket be brought to the emergency entrance in my name immediately.

Mr. SPECTER. And what action was taken as a result of that request by you?

Mr. HILL. The casket did arrive from the O'Neal Mortuary, Inc., in their own hearse, which we then wheeled into the emergency room. I left the emergency room and asked that two of our agents, Special Agent Sulliman and Assistant Special Agent in Charge Stout clear all the corridors, and I checked the closest and most immediate route to the ambulance. We took the body from the hospital and departed the Parkland Hospital about 2:04 p.m. The ambulance was driven by Special Agent Berger. Special Agent in Charge Kellerman and Assistant Special Agent In Charge Stout were riding in the front seat; Mrs. Kennedy, Dr. Burkley, the President's body, and myself rode in the rear portion of the ambulance.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how long did it take you to reach the airplane at Love Field?

Mr. HILL. We arrived at Love Field at 2:14.

Mr. SPECTER. And were you present during the swearing-in ceremonies of President Johnson?

Mr. HILL. I was aboard the aircraft; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you witness those ceremonies?

Mr. HILL. Well, the Presidential compartment was so small that not all persons on the aircraft could get in. I was in the forward portion of the aircraft, right adjacent to the area that the President was sworn in.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the time of the swearing in?

Mr. HILL. 2:38.

Mr. SPECTER. And what time did the Presidential aircraft depart?

Mr. HILL. 2:47.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what time it arrived in the Washington area?

Mr. HILL. 5:59, I believe, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did it land?

Mr. HILL. We landed at Andrews Air Force Base.

Mr. SPECTER. And what action, if any, in connection with this matter did you take following landing?

Mr. HILL. I assisted Mrs. Kennedy and the Attorney General, who had joined her at that time, into the ambulance bearing the President's body, and I entered the automobile immediately behind the ambulance with Dr. John Walsh, Mrs. Kennedy's physician, and members of President Kennedy's staff.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did you go then?

Mr. HILL. Immediately to Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you stay with the President's family at that time?

Mr. HILL. When we arrived there, I went to the 17th floor with Mrs. Kennedy, and I remained with Mrs. Kennedy except for one time when I was requested to come to the morgue to view the President's body.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you view the President's body?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What action did you take following the time you viewed the President's body in the morgue?

Mr. HILL. After the viewing of the President's body?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Mr. HILL. I returned to the 17th floor and remained with Mrs. Kennedy until we departed the hospital.

Representative BOGGS. May I ask a question? At the hospital in Texas, you had seen--had you seen the whole body, or just the back of the President's head?

Mr. HILL. I had seen the whole body, but he was still cold when I saw him.

Representative BOGGS. At the morgue in Bethesda he was not cold?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; the autopsy had been completed, and the Lawler Mortuary Co. was preparing the body for placement in a casket.

Representative BOGGS. At this time did you see the whole body?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Did you see any other wound other than the head wound?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; I saw an opening in the back, about 6 inches below the neckline to the right-hand side of the spinal column.

Representative BOGGS. Was there a frontal neck injury?

Mr. HILL. There was an area here that had been opened but----

Mr. SPECTER. You are indicating----

Mr. HILL. In the neck. It was my understanding at that time that this was done by a tracheotomy.

Mr. SPECTER. What else, if anything, of importance did you do between the time you viewed the body in the morgue until the termination of your duties on that date, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. We handled all communications on the 17th floor, up to the 17th floor, for Mrs. Kennedy, members of her family, Cabinet members who were there at that time, and secured the 17th floor for all personnel. No one was permitted there that we did not know.

Mr. SPECTER. What time did you leave the 17th floor?

Mr. HILL. I believe, sir, it was 3:56, but I am not sure of the exact time.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go from there?

Mr. HILL. We went downstairs to the rear of the hospital, where the body was placed in a naval ambulance. I entered an automobile immediately behind the ambulance. Mrs. Kennedy and the Attorney General got into the rear of the ambulance with the body.

Mr. SPECTER. And from there, where did you go?

Mr. HILL. I accompanied them to the White House.

Mr. SPECTER. And did that mark the termination of your duties for that day?

Mr. HILL. No, sir. I remained on duty until approximately 6:30 in the morning; went home, changed clothes, and came back.

Mr. SPECTER. I believe you testified as to the impression you had as to the source of the first shot. To be sure that the record is complete, what was your reaction as to where the first shot came from, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. Right rear.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you have a reaction or impression as to the source of point of origin of the second shot that you described?

Mr. HILL. It was right, but I cannot say for sure that it was rear, because when I mounted the car it was--it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound--as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you describing this double sound with respect to what you heard on the occasion of the second shot?

Mr. HILL. The second shot that I heard; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, do you now or have you ever had the impression or reaction that there was a shot which originated from the front of the Presidential car?

Mr. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. That is all I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Ford, any questions you would like to ask?

Representative FORD. No.

Representative BOGGS. I have no questions, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Craig.

Mr. CRAIG. No, thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. If not, thank you very much. We appreciate your coming.

Mr. HILL. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Youngblood, will you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please.

Mr. Specter will conduct the examination.

TESTIMONY OF RUFUS WAYNE YOUNGBLOOD, SPECIAL AGENT, SECRET SERVICE

Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Rufus Wayne Youngblood.

Mr. SPECTER. How old are you, Mr. Youngblood?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Forty.

Mr. SPECTER. And by whom are you employed?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The U.S. Secret Service.

Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been so employed?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Since March of 1951.

Mrs. SPECTER. What is your educational background, sir?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I graduated from Georgia Institute of Technology. Bachelor of Industrial Engineering.

Mr. SPECTER. In what year?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. 1949.

Mr. SPECTER. How were you occupied from termination of your college work until starting with the Secret Service?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I worked for Bradshaws, Inc., which was a refrigeration and air-conditioning concern in Waycross, Ga., and then worked for Alvin Lindstrom, who is a consulting mechanical engineer in Atlanta, Ga.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you outline in general terms what your duties have been with the Secret Service since the time you joined them?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I began in the Secret Service as a special agent, criminal investigator, and started off at the Atlanta field office, and stayed there about a year and a half. This time was spent in investigation of Government forged check cases, bond cases, counterfeiting, and similar investigations.

(At this point, Chief Justice Warren withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I came to the Washington, DC. area, and worked in the Washington field office, a continuation of the same type of work I had done in Atlanta, plus the beginning of the protective work, working on temporary assignment at the White House detail. And then in 1953 I was assigned to the White House detail and worked there during the Eisenhower Administration about 6 years, and returned to the Atlanta field office for 3 more years in that area, during which time President Eisenhower would come to Augusta and Albany, and on two occasions on foreign trips I was called in.

And after 3 years in that field office, I returned to Washington again, assigned to the White House detail. The last part of the Eisenhower Administration and the beginning of the Kennedy Administration.

And in March of 1961, I was assigned to the Vice-Presidential detail. This, at that time, was part of the Washington field office. And I have been on an assignment with the Vice-Presidential detail since March 1961, except for a 1-month period when I returned to the White House detail. And then back to the Vice-Presidential detail.

But during this time, the Vice-Presidential detail changed from a field office assignment to a small independent office, and then, later, in October of 1962, when legislation was passed, changing the laws relative to protection of the Vice President, it became a larger detail. And I have been on the Vice-Presidential detail in the occurrence at Dallas, and returned to the White House detail when Mr. Johnson became the President.

And during this period of time, I have been a special agent, assistant special agent in charge, and was scheduled to be the special agent in charge of the Vice-Presidential detail. But due to what occurred in Dallas, I went to the White House as an assistant special agent in charge.

Any other particulars?

Mr. SPECTER. Well, what was your rank at the time of the Dallas trip, specifically on November 22, 1963?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I was the assistant special agent in charge of the Vice-Presidential detail.

(At this point, Chief Justice Warren entered the hearing room.)

Mr. SPECTER. And as such, were you responsible for the security of the Vice President on that trip?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what is your current rank?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Assistant special agent in charge of the White House detail.

Mr. SPECTER. And, as such, do you hold one of the three positions of the assistant special agent in charge at the White House detail?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And is that a rank comparable or exactly the same as that now held by Special Agent Kellerman?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; he is senior to me, but it is a comparable rank.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, would you outline briefly and in general terms the activities of Vice President Johnson during the few days immediately before Friday, November 22, 1963?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. On Tuesday of that week we made a trip from the ranch to Dallas, and we went by commercial plane--actually, from the ranch to Austin in the Vice President's plane, and from Austin to Dallas on a commercial plane. And while in Dallas, he addressed the Bottlers Convention. And we returned to the plane, flew back to Austin, then flew back to the ranch later that night, and remained at the ranch the next day and through Thursday.

And on Thursday we went to San Antonio, to join the group coming down from Washington.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, when did Vice President Johnson then address the Bottlers Association in Dallas?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. That was on Tuesday.

Mr. SPECTER. November 19?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would have to look at a calendar.

Mr. SPECTER. The preceding Tuesday----

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The preceding Tuesday before the 22d; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, outline in a general way Vice President Johnson's activities on the morning of November 22d, before he arrived in Dallas, if you would, please.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, our day began at the hotel in Fort Worth, where we had stayed overnight. And that morning we went down to a mezzanine floor where we met with President Kennedy and a group of White House people. We went across from this hotel to a parking lot across the street, and they had a speaker stand there, and they addressed an assembled gathering.

Then they returned to the hotel, and there was a breakfast meeting in the hotel. They attended that. And, after that, we formed a motorcade and went to the field nearby in Fort Worth and boarded Air Force 2, and flew into Dallas.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately what time did the Vice Presidential plane arrive in Dallas?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. About 11:35.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you tell the Commission in general terms what Vice President Johnson did upon arrival at the Love Field?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. All right, sir.

This plane, Air Force 2, had on board the Vice President and Mrs. Johnson and other officials. And we disembarked from the plane and were met by a welcoming committee composed of local dignitaries. And then we moved from that area where we disembarked over to the area of the ramp, which would be pushed out when Air Force 1, the President's plane, arrived. And when his plane did arrive, which was just a few minutes after ours, roughly 10 minutes, we went out to the foot of the ramp and Vice President Johnson and Mrs. Johnson headed the reception committee to greet the people who came off of Air Force 1.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how long did the activities in greeting the crowd and the general reception last at Love Field on that morning?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Do you mean from the time we arrived on Air Force 2 until we left?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I think it was about 15 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, in what position in the motorcade was Vice President Johnson's automobile?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We were following the Presidential followup car, and the motorcade up to our point--there was a lead car, the President's car, the Presidential followup car, and then our car.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there, to your knowledge, in advance of the lead car a car known as the pilot car?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; in all probability. This is a normal police arrangement.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you identify the occupants of Vice President Johnson's car, indicating the positions in the car of each individual?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. All right, sir. The driver of this car was Hurchel Jacks, and he is with the State Highway Patrol. And behind him was Senator Ralph Yarborough, from Texas. And in the middle back seat was Mrs. Johnson. And on the right-hand side of the back seat, behind me, was the Vice President. And I was in the front seat on the right-hand side.

Mr. SPECTER. And what kind of an automobile was it?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This was a Lincoln convertible, a four-door convertible.

Mr. SPECTER. Is this a specially constructed automobile, or was it obtained locally for use during this trip?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. It was obtained locally for use during the trip.

Mr. SPECTER. And what car immediately followed the Vice President's automobile?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The Vice Presidential detail had a followup car which followed our car.

Mr. SPECTER. What kind of an automobile was that?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. It was either a Lincoln or a Mercury, I don't know the exact make. It was a Ford product, and it was a four-door car. But it was closed.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you identify the occupants of that car, stating where each sat?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The front seat, the driver, I think his name is Rich. He is always on the Texas Highway Patrol. In the front seat in the middle is Cliff Carter. He is an assistant to the Vice President's staff.

(At this point, Representative Boggs withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. On the right-front side was Jerry Kivett. He is one of the agents on the Vice Presidential detail. And in the back seat, behind the driver, was Warren Taylor, and in the back seat on the other side was my agent, Lem Johns.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know how many cars there were in the balance of the motorcade?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the maximum speed at which the motorcade proceeded from Love Field down to the downtown area of Dallas?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I doubt if the motorcade ever exceeded 20 miles or 25 miles an hour, and most of the time it was going slower than that.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the minimum speed, would you estimate, during that time?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We actually came to stops during this time.

Mr. SPECTER. How many stops?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. More than one. Two or more.

Mr. SPECTER. What occurred during the course of those stops, or what prompted them?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, these stops were made by the Presidential car to greet well-wishers, students on one particular occasion, and other groups of well-wishers, that were assembled along the streets.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Vice President Johnson greet anyone at those stops?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. He did greet them, but he didn't leave the car, I think. He remained in the car. I got out of the car and stood by the side of it on more than one occasion. He waved at people, and some did run over, and I think he did touch some. But he didn't leave the car.

Mr. SPECTER. How far behind the President's followup car did the Vice President's followup car drive?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The Vice President's followup car?

Mr. SPECTER. Pardon me--the Vice President's automobile.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We usually stayed on motorcades like this about two or three car lengths behind.

Mr. SPECTER. And did your distance on this occasion conform to your customary practice of being that distance behind?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is the reason, if any, for staying that distance behind the President's followup car?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, mainly so the crowd can see the Vice President, and he can see them. If you are too close behind the Presidential group, the crowd will be watching the President and will watch him as he goes by, and then they will miss the next man. So it gives the people a chance to recover and look back and see him, and they to see each other.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you a photograph which has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 354, and ask you if you are able to identify what that is a picture of.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what does that depict?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, it is a picture showing the main street, Houston Street and Elm Street, and the assassination occurred on Elm Street.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you familiar at this time with the identities of Main, Houston, and Elm?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; when I have a map such as this ahead of me.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. How far behind the President's automobile was the Vice President's automobile in which you were riding when the Vice President's automobile turned right off of Main Street onto Houston?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. You ask again how far were we behind the President's car? Did you mean, sir, how far were we behind the Presidential followup car?

Mr. SPECTER. No; I meant the President's car on that occasion.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, we were a distance of about two car lengths behind the followup car, and they were probably one car length behind the Presidential car. But this would be a guess on my part.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the situation with respect to the crowd which was lined up on Houston and Elm as you approached that intersection?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. On Houston Street, on the side where the tall building is, the crowd was still somewhat continuous. On the side which is the park side, the crowd was smaller. They did have some people there, but it wasn't continuous in the same way it was on the building side.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the speed of the Vice President's car as you proceeded down Houston Street toward Elm Street?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, our speed, of course, was governed by the vehicles in front of us, but I would say we had just made one turn, and it was only a block there before we would make another turn. It was approximately 10 miles an hour, between 10 and 15.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you a photograph which has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 348, and I ask you if you are now able to identify what that building is?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; I am now able to identify it.

Mr. SPECTER. What is that building, sir?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. That is the School Book Depository Building.

Mr. SPECTER. Where, as best you can recollect, was the Vice President's car at the time the first shots were heard? And would you take Commission Exhibit No. 354 and take the red pencil and mark as closely as you can the exact position on Commission Exhibit 354 of the Vice President's car with the capital letter "A" there?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. At the time of the first shot, did you say?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. It will be in this area here, I should think.

Mr. SPECTER. I want the Vice President's car at this time.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, this is what I am attempting to locate. It would be in the vicinity of this "X" right here, I do believe.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, will you describe----

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Excuse me. You said put an "A" here?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please. Will you describe just what occurred as the motorcade proceeded past the intersection of Houston and Elm Streets?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, the crowd had begun to diminish, looking ahead and to the right the crowd became spotty. I mean it wasn't continuous at all, like it had been. As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was an explosive noise. I quickly observed unnatural movement of crowds, like ducking or scattering, and quick movements in the Presidential followup car. So I turned around and hit the Vice President on the shoulder and hollered, get down, and then looked around again and saw more of this movement, and so I proceeded to go to the back seat and get on top of him.

I then heard two more shots. But I would like to say this. I would not be positive that I was back on that back seat before the second shot. But the Vice President himself said I was. But--then in hearing these two more shots, I again had seen more movement, and I think someone else hit a siren--I heard the noise of a siren.

I told the driver to close it up, and stick close to that car in front. And right away we started a hasty evacuation speed, and left this immediate area, and we were following close behind. And I had a radio which was on a Baker frequency, where I could communicate back with the agents in my followup car. And they had a Charlie frequency, which was on the same network of the Presidential motorcade. And I called back and said I am switching to Baker frequency--I said, "I am switching to Charlie." And as I switched, I heard some transmission over the Charlie sets saying for me to keep my man covered, and I heard Kivett reply to Emory Roberts that he was covered, and I saw agents in the followup car, the Presidential followup car signaling us to stay close. I asked the driver what his opinion was as to--I don't know for exact sure just where we were going, but I knew our best protection was to stay with that Presidential followup crew. And I asked the driver if he had passed the Trade Mart. He said he passed it and we were going on to the hospital. And I heard indications over the radio that we were going to the hospital. We had a very fast ride there.

I told the driver to go as fast as he could without having a wreck. There was some conversation between the Vice President and myself while we were going to the hospital. I told him that I didn't know how serious it was up in the front car, but when we arrived at the hospital, I would like to get out of the car and go into the building and not stop, and for him to stay close to myself and the other agents. He agreed to.

When we arrived at the hospital, we immediately went right in. As we stopped at the hospital, two of my agents from the Vice Presidential car, followup car, were coming up to meet us, and two from the Presidential followup were coming to meet us, and, with this group, we proceeded into the hospital and then went into a room. I posted one man at the door and said, not to let anyone in unless he knew him, was certain of his identity.

I told Jerry Kivett and Warren Taylor to pull all the shades and blinds, which they did. And they also busied themselves with evacuating a couple of people out of there. There was a nurse and a patient in there.

Mr. SPECTER. Before you go on, Mr. Youngblood, let me drop back and pick up a few of the details theretofore.

What would your best estimate be of the speed of the Vice President's car at the time you heard that first explosive noise?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Oh, approximately 12 miles an hour.

Mr. SPECTER. And had you maintained the distance which you have described heretofore behind the President's followup car?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, generally. Sometimes as we went around corners, we tried to close up the gap a little bit. But as soon as we got on a straight stretch, we would drop back two or three car lengths.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, at this particular time, what is your best recollection of the distance between the Presidential followup car and the Vice President's car?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We are on Elm Street now.

Mr. SPECTER. At the time the first shot occurred.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We were two or three car lengths behind.

Mr. SPECTER. And how far behind the President's car was the Presidential followup car at the time of the first shot?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would think somewhat less than a car length.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the total timespan between the first and third shots which you have already described?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. From the beginning to the last?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would think 5 seconds.

Mr. SPECTER. And you have described the first shot as being an explosive noise. How would you describe each of the second and third shots?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, there wasn't too much difference in the noise of the first shot and the last two. I am not really sure that there was a difference. But in my mind, I think I identified the last two positively as shots, whereas the first one I thought was just an explosive noise, and I didn't know whether it was a firecracker or a shot. It seems, as I try to think over it, there was more of a crack sound to the last two shots. That may have been distance, I don't know.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, as to time interval--was there longer or less time or the same between the first and second shots and the second and third shots?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. There seemed to be a longer span of time between the first and the second shot than there was between the second and third shot.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have any reaction or impression as to the source or point of origin of the first shot?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I didn't know where the source or the point of origin was, of course, but the sounds all came to my right and rear.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, how about as to the latter two shots, would the same apply, or would there be a different situation there?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No; all of them seemed to sound that they were from the right.

Representative FORD. Did they sound on the surface or in the air or couldn't you discern?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I couldn't say for certain. I don't know.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you then or have you ever had any contrary impression that the shots might have come from in front as opposed to the rear of the automobile?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you say that you hit the Vice President's shoulder, and at that time you were indicating your left hand, I believe.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Which hand did you use in hitting the Vice President's shoulder?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. My left, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And which shoulder of the Vice President did you hit?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. His right, because I turned this way. I turned to my left, with the hand out, and then came into his right shoulder.

Mr. SPECTER. And when you moved from the front to the rear seat, would you describe in as much detail as you can your relative position with respect to the position of President Johnson's body?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, the Vice President says that I vaulted over. It was more of a stepping over. And then I sat on top of him, he being crouched down somewhat.

Mr. SPECTER. Indicating towards the left?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. He moved towards the center, or towards his left, yes, sir, and down. And then I sat on this portion of his arm here.

Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the right upper portion of the arm from elbow to the shoulder?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; generally.

Mr. SPECTER. And what were the positions of the other occupants of the back seat at the time you sat on the Vice President?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Mrs. Johnson more or less moved into a forward--just moved forward. And Senator Yarborough also moved forward, and possibly he moved over a little to the right. I am not sure. But we were all below the window level of the car. And those two generally were forward. But the Vice President was forward and a little to his left.

Mr. SPECTER. In what direction did you look when you were first sitting on the Vice President?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. In what direction did I look?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Almost all directions.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have a reaction with respect to looking in the direction from which you thought the danger was emanating?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I think I first looked to the right--but to the right, forward, up, as much as I could scan, and also the people in the Presidential followup car. Because I recall seeing at the time one of our agents, Hickey, who was in the Presidential followup car, in almost a standing position with an AR-15 looking back and up.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to fix the precise time of the assassination?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would say 12:30. I was to keep the times. The Vice President was asking me if we were running on time, and so forth. And so he asked me how much further, and I would call back to our followup car and ask them how many more miles and so forth.

So, for this reason, I was at that time keeping up with the time very closely. And when we turned the corner, I noticed an illuminated clock sign on this building, which I now know is the School Book Depository Building. And that clock indicated 12:30. And the reason it is significant is because this was the time we were supposed to arrive at the Trade Mart.

Representative FORD. As you looked at the school depository building, and noticed this clock, where is the clock? Can you identify it?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This, right here.

Representative FORD. It is on top of the roof?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; right up here.

Representative FORD. And this is after you turned from Main Street on to Houston Street?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. We were on Houston Street--just as soon as we got on Houston Street. And I looked up and I saw it there.

Representative FORD. Did you notice anything else on the building as you scanned it from the top down, or from the bottom up?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I noticed open windows, and some people, I think. But I didn't notice this particular window.

Representative FORD. You saw nothing unusual in any of the open windows that you noticed?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, sir, all through the day here we had been passing buildings with windows and people. And that I saw. But I saw nothing unusual.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Youngblood, what is your best estimate as to the time it took to get to Parkland Hospital after the shooting occurred?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I believe it was between 5 and 8 minutes, something of that nature.

(At this point, Representative Ford withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. SPECTER. And at what speed did your automobile proceed, based on your best estimate, en route from the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I believe we were going around 60 or 70 miles an hour at times.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you observe President Kennedy or Governor Connally being removed from the President's automobile?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir; because I had--as I mentioned before--I had told the Vice President, or suggested to the Vice President that we did not want to linger, and get into the building as quickly as we could, and we would find out the condition of the other party after we got into a safe place.

Mr. SPECTER. Had they already been taken in by the time you arrived at the scene?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. No, sir; I don't hardly see how they could have been, because we arrived almost simultaneously with them. It was just a matter of opening the door and getting out of the car and hastily walking right on past. I think they were in the act of removing these people, but I don't think they would have had time to have removed them.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you enter the emergency entrance as well?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, I interrupted you before when you were describing the security arrangements which you were making on the room to which you took the Vice President. Would you continue and describe for us what occurred thereafter?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. At what point?

Mr. SPECTER. I interrupted you. You were in the room, you had pulled the shades down, and were making security arrangements for the Vice President.

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, we were in a corner of this room, and there was the Vice President, Mrs. Johnson, and myself at first, with agents Kivett and Warren Taylor also in the big room, but not right over in the corner at the beginning. And shortly thereafter Emory Roberts came in. He was one of the White House detail agents. He told us that the situation--situation with President Kennedy looked very bad. The Vice President asked me what I thought--what we should do. And I said I think we should evacuate the hospital as soon as we can, and get on the plane, and return to Washington. And Emory Roberts concurred. And the Vice President agreed. But he wanted to get a better report on the condition and so forth.

Then we were joined by many others. Congressman Homer Thornberry came in, and Congressman Brooks, and Cliff Carter, and the Vice President had some conversations with these gentlemen. And at one time Cliff went out and got coffee. And then Mr. Ken O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman came down on one occasion, and Ken O'Donnell said for us to return to Washington, and to go ahead and take the President's plane.

The Vice President was worried about Mrs. Kennedy. So Mrs. Johnson thought that she would go see Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally. She did. Agents Kivett and Taylor went with her. Then later, after she came back, Ken O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman came down again and told us that the President had died.

Mr. SPECTER. About what time was that, sir?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I don't know. I had told Lem Johns to try to keep up with all the times. I think it is a matter of record. I believe you have it in other documents.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, are you referring to a document which I will mark as Commission Exhibit 355?

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 355 for identification.)

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. This is our shift report, and this is the times that Lem Johns was keeping that day. He shows 1 p.m., President Kennedy died at Parkland Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. Was that daily shift report prepared under your supervision, Mr. Youngblood?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you review it and approve it when it was completed, after the end of the workday on November 22?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, not exactly at the end of the workday, sir. These agents would keep notes. And in this particular case you can see that this one, it says, "Date completed, December 2" down at the bottom. That is when he got around to typing it.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, does this document bear your initial in any place?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; up at the top. The "RYW" is my initials.

Mr. SPECTER. And does that signify your approval shortly after completion of the document?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Would you go ahead and tell us what your activities were from the time you had learned that the President had died?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, when Mr. O'Donnell and Roy Kellerman told us that he had died, the Vice President said, "Well, how about Mrs. Kennedy?"

O'Donnell told the Vice President that Mrs. Kennedy would not leave the hospital without the President's body. And O'Donnell suggested we go to the plane and that they just come on the other plane. And I might add that, as a word of explanation, there were two jet planes, one Air Force 1, in which the President flew, and the other Air Force 2, in which the Vice President and his party flew on. And O'Donnell told us to go ahead and take Air Force 1. I believe this is mainly because Air Force 1 has better communications equipment and so forth than the other planes.

President Johnson said that he didn't want to go off and leave Mrs. Kennedy in such a state. And so he agreed that we would go on to the airplane and board the plane and wait until Mrs. Kennedy and the body would come out. Shall I go on?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes. Proceed. Did you then depart from Parkland Hospital?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Yes, sir; previous to all of this, I had Johns, my agent, line up some unmarked police cars so that they would be ready when we did decide to evacuate the hospital.

So we left the room and proceeded out to these cars. The car that we went in was driven by Chief Curry, the Dallas Police Chief, and Congressman Thornberry was in the front seat, and the Vice President and I were in the back seat. And I had told the Vice President before we left the room that I would prefer that he stay below window level, and stay close with me as we went out, and that I would also prefer Mrs. Johnson to go in another car, but she would be accompanied by agents. And Mrs. Johnson did get in a second car. She was accompanied by Warren Taylor and Jerry Kivett and Congressman Brooks, and also Glen Bennett, another agent from the White House.

And as we started to leave the hospital area, that is drive away, just as we started away, Congressman Thomas saw us leaving--I imagine he saw Congressman Thornberry, and he said, "Wait for me." I don't think he saw the Vice President. And I told the driver to continue. I didn't want to stop there in front of the hospital. But by this time Congressman Thomas was right over at the side of the car, and the Vice President said, "Stop and let him get in."

So he got in in the front seat with Congressman Thornberry, having Congressman Thornberry move over closer to the driver. And then we started out again. This probably takes longer to tell about it than it actually took. It was about a 30-second stop.

We started out again, and the Vice President asked Congressman Thornberry to climb on over and get in the back seat, which he did, while the car was in motion. And then that put Congressman Thornberry behind the driver, and on the Vice President's left, and I was on his right.

And we continued on our way. We were momentarily stopped as we were leaving the hospital on this access road. There was a truck or delivery or something coming in there. We were stopped for one moment. But then the police got us on through, and we went on out to the main roads, and we were getting a motorcycle escort.