Chapter XXVII: Part 27

Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, does the one which you have described as the entry of the bullet go all the way through?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; it goes through both layers.

Mr. SPECTER. How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me--it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below.

Mr. SPECTER. Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course?

Commander HUMES. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Through the inner side as it went through the outer side?

Commander HUMES. No, in an irregular fashion.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you take Commission Exhibit 394 and describe what that is, first of all, please?

Commander HUMES. This is the shirt, blood-stained shirt, purportedly worn by the President on the day of his assassination. When viewed from behind at a point which corresponds essentially with the point of defect on the jacket, one sees an irregularly oval defect.

When viewed anteriorly, with the top button buttoned, two additional defects are seen. Of course, with the shirt buttoned, the fly front of the shirt causes two layers of cloth to be present in this location, and that there is a defect in the inner layer of cloth and a corresponding defect in the outer layer of the cloth.

Mr. SPECTER. Is there any observable indication from the fibers on the front side of the shirt to indicate in which direction a missile might have passed through those two tears?

Commander HUMES. From an examination of these defects at this point, it would appear that the missile traversed these two layers from within to the exterior.

Mr. SPECTER. Would it be accurate to state that the hole in the back of the shirt is approximately 6 inches below the top of the collar and 2 inches to the right of the middle seam of the shirt?

Commander HUMES. That is approximately correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, how, if at all, do the holes in the shirt and coat conform to the wound of entrance which you described as point "C" on Commission Exhibit 385?

Commander HUMES. We believe that they conform quite well. When viewing--first of all, the wounds or the defects in 393 and 394 coincide virtually exactly with one another.

They give the appearance when viewed separately and not as part of the clothing of a clothed person as being perhaps, somewhat lower on the Exhibits 393 and 394 than we have depicted them in Exhibit No. 385. We believe there are two reasons for this.

385 is a schematic representation, and the photographs would be more accurate as to the precise location, but more particularly the way in which these defects would conform with such a defect on the torso would depend on the girth of the shoulders and configuration of the base of the neck of the individual, and the relative position of the shirt and coat to the tissues of the body at the time of the impact of the missile.

Mr. SPECTER. As to the muscular status of the President, what was it?

Commander HUMES. The President was extremely well-developed, an extremely well-developed, muscular young man with a very well-developed set of muscles in his thoraco and shoulder girdle.

Mr. SPECTER. What effect would that have on the positioning of the shirt and coat with respect to the position of the neck in and about the seam?

Commander HUMES. I believe this would have a tendency to push the portions of the coat which show the defects here somewhat higher on the back of the President than on a man of less muscular development.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the Commission, I would like to mark for identification Exhibit 396, which later proof will show is a picture of President Kennedy shortly before the first bullet struck him, and ask the doctor to take a look at that.

Will you describe, Doctor Humes, the position of President Kennedy's right hand in that picture?

Commander HUMES. Yes. This exhibit, Commission Exhibit No. 396, allegedly taken just prior to the wounding of the late President, shows him with his hand raised, his elbow bent, apparently in saluting the crowd. I believe that this action----

Mr. SPECTER. Which hand was that?

Commander HUMES. This was his right hand, sir. I believe that this action would further accentuate the elevation of the coat and the shirt with respect to the back of the President.

Mr. SPECTER. Now. Doctor Humes, will you take Commission Exhibit No. 395----

Mr. McCLOY. Before you go, may I ask a question? In your examination of the shirt, I just want to get it in the record, from your examination of the shirt, there is no defect in the collar of the shirt which coincides with the defect in the back of the President's coat, am I correct?

Commander HUMES. You are correct, sir. There is no such defect.

Mr. SPECTER. As to Commission Exhibit 395, Dr. Humes, will you identify what that is, please?

Commander HUMES. We had an opportunity to examine this exhibit before the Commission met today, sir. This is Commission Exhibit No. 395, and is the neck tie purportedly worn, purportedly to have been worn, by the late President on the day of his assassination.

Mr. SPECTER. What defect, if any, is noted on the tie which would correspond with the path of a missile apparently passing through the folds of the shirt which you have already described?

Commander HUMES. This tie is one of those--this tie is still in its knotted state, as we examine it at this time. The portion of the tie around the neck has been severed apparently with scissors or other sharp instrument accounting for the loop about the neck.

The tie is tied in four-in-hand fashion but somewhat askew from the way a person would normally tie a four-in-hand knot.

Situated on the left anterior aspect of this knotted portion of the tie at a point approximately corresponding with the defects noted previously in the two layers of the shirt is a superficial tear of the outer layer only of the fabric of this tie which, I believe, could have been caused by a glancing blow to this portion of the tie by a missile.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I move at this time for the admission into evidence of Exhibits 393 through Exhibit 396, the three articles of clothing and the photograph which we have just used.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

(Exhibits Nos. 393 through 396 were received in evidence and may be found in the Commission files.)

Mr. McCLOY. Commander, did you say left or right?

Commander HUMES. No, sir. In fact, the way this bow is tied now it would appear to be on the left of this tie, but it is kind of twisted out of shape.

Mr. McCLOY. Yes. It is twisted. It is not too clear.

Commander HUMES. It is not too clear, it is not clear how that might have been in position with the shirt, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, Doctor Humes, at one point in your examination of the President, did you make an effort to probe the point of entry with your finger?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. SPECTER. And at or about that time when you were trying to ascertain, as you previously testified, whether there was any missile in the body of the President, did someone from the Secret Service call your attention to the fact that a bullet had been found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; they did.

Mr. SPECTER. And in that posture of your examination, having just learned of the presence of a bullet on a stretcher, did that call to your mind any tentative explanatory theory of the point of entry or exit of the bullet which you have described as entering at Point "C" on Exhibit 385?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir. We were able to ascertain with absolute certainty that the bullet had passed by the apical portion of the right lung producing the injury which we mentioned.

I did not at that point have the information from Doctor Perry about the wound in the anterior neck, and while that was a possible explanation for the point of exit, we also had to consider the possibility that the missile in some rather inexplicable fashion had been stopped in its path through the President's body and, in fact, then had fallen from the body onto the stretcher.

Mr. SPECTER. And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?

Commander HUMES. Yes; in essence we have. When examining the wounds in the base of the President's neck anteriorly, the region of the tracheotomy performed at Parkland Hospital, we noted, and we noted in our record, some contusion and bruising of the muscles of the neck of the President. We noted that at the time of the postmortem examination.

Now, we also made note of the types of wounds which I mentioned to you before in this testimony on the chest which were going to be used by the doctors there to place chest tubes. They also made other wounds, one on the left arm, and a wound on the ankle of the President with the idea of administering intravenous blood and other fluids in hope of replacing the blood which the President had lost from his extensive wounds.

Those wounds showed no evidence of bruising or contusion or physical violence, which made us reach the conclusion that they were performed during the agonal moments of the late president, and when the circulation was, in essence, very seriously embarrassed, if not nonfunctional. So that these wounds, the wound of the chest and the wound of the arm and of the ankle were performed about the same time as the tracheotomy wound because only a very few moments of time elapsed when all this was going on.

So, therefore, we reached the conclusion that the damage to these muscles on the anterior neck just below this wound were received at approximately the same time that the wound here on the top of the pleural cavity was, while the President still lived and while his heart and lungs were operating in such a fashion to permit him to have a bruise in the vicinity, because that he did have in these strap muscles in the neck, but he didn't have in the areas of the other incisions that were made at Parkland Hospital. So we feel that, had this missile not made its path in that fashion, the wound made by Doctor Perry in the neck would not have been able to produce, wouldn't have been able to produce, these contusions of the musculature of the neck.

Mr. DULLES. Could I ask a question about the missile, I am a little bit--the bullet, I am a little bit--confused. It was found on the stretcher. Did the President's body remain on the stretcher while it was in the hospital?

Commander HUMES. Of that point I have no knowledge. The only----

Mr. DULLES. Why would it--would this operating have anything to do with the bullet being on the stretcher unless the President's body remained on the stretcher after he was taken into the hospital; is that possible?

Commander HUMES. It is quite possible, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Otherwise it seems to me the bullet would have to have been ejected from the body before he was taken or put on the bed in the hospital.

Commander HUMES. Right, sir. I, of course, was not there. I don't know how he was handled in the hospital, in what conveyance. I do know he was on his back during the period of his stay in the hospital; Doctor Perry told me that.

Mr. DULLES. Yes; and wasn't turned over.

Commander HUMES. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. So he might have been on the stretcher the whole time, is that your view?

The CHAIRMAN. He said he had no view. He wasn't there, he doesn't know anything about it.

Mr. DULLES. Yes. I wonder if there is other evidence of this.

Mr. SPECTER. There has been other evidence, Mr. Dulles. If I may say at this point, we shall produce later, subject to sequential proof, evidence that the stretcher on which this bullet was found was the stretcher of Governor Connally. We have a sequence of events on the transmission of that stretcher which ties that down reasonably closely, so that on the night of the autopsy itself, as the information I have been developing indicates, the thought preliminarily was that was from President Kennedy's stretcher, and that is what led to the hypothesis which we have been exploring about, but which has since been rejected. But at any rate the evidence will show that it was from Governor Connally's stretcher that the bullet was found.

Mr. DULLES. So this bullet is still missing?

Mr. SPECTER. That is the subject of some theories I am about to get into. That is an elusive subject, but Dr. Humes has some views on it, and we might just as well go into those now.

Mr. McCLOY. Before he gets into that, may I ask a question?

The CHAIRMAN. Surely, go right ahead.

Mr. McCLOY. Quite apart from the President's clothing, now directing your attention to the flight of the bullet, quite apart from the evidence given by the President's clothing, you, I believe, indicated that the flight of the bullet was from the back, from above and behind. It took roughly the line which is shown on your Exhibit 385.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. I am not clear what induced you to come to that conclusion if you couldn't find the actual exit wound by reason of the tracheotomy.

Commander HUMES. The report which we have submitted, sir, represents our thinking within the 24-48 hours of the death of the President, all facts taken into account of the situation.

The wound in the anterior portion of the lower neck is physically lower than the point of entrance posteriorly, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. That is what I wanted to bring out.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask this: In spite of the incision made by the tracheotomy, was there any evidence left of the exit aperture?

Commander HUMES. Unfortunately not that we could ascertain, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. I see.

Mr. DULLES. There is no evidence in the coat or the shirt of an exit through the coat or shirt.

Commander HUMES. There is no exit through the coat, sir. But these two, in the shirt, of course--excuse me, sir--there is. The entrance by our calculations----

Mr. DULLES. The entrance I know.

Commander HUMES. Posteriorly.

Mr. DULLES. What about the exit?

Commander HUMES. The exit wounds are just below.

Mr. DULLES. But there was no coat to exit through.

Commander HUMES. No; anteriorly the coat was quite open.

Senator COOPER. May I ask a question?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir, Senator.

Senator COOPER. Assuming that we draw a straight line from Point "C" which you have described as a possible point of entry of the missile, to Point "D" where you saw an incision of the tracheotomy----

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. What would be the relation of the bruise at the apex of the pleural sac to such a line?

Commander HUMES. It would be exactly in line with such a line, sir, exactly.

Senator COOPER. What was the character of the bruise that you saw there?

Commander HUMES. The bruise here, photographs are far superior to my humble verbal description, but if I let my hand in cup shaped fashion represent the apical parietal pleura, it was an area approximately 5 cm. in greatest diameter of purplish blue discoloration of the parietal pleura. Corresponding exactly with it, with the lung sitting below it, was a roughly pyramid-shaped bruise with its base toward the surface of the upper portion of the lung, and the apex down into the lung tissue, and the whole thing measured about 5 cm., which is a little--2 inches in extent, sir.

Senator COOPER. What would be the--can you describe the covering around the apex of the pleural sac, the nature of its protection. My point is to get your opinion as to whether some other factor, some factor other than the missile could have caused this bruise which you saw.

Commander HUMES. A couple of ways we might do this, sir. One with regard to temporal, it was quite fresh. When examined under the microscope, the lung in this area had recent hemorrhaging in it. The red blood cells were well-preserved, as they would be if it happened quite recently before death, as was the red blood cells where they had gotten out into the lung tissue near there.

The discoloration was essentially of the same character as the discoloration in the muscles adjacent thereto, which would roughly again place it temporally in approximately the same time since bruises change color as time goes by, and these appeared quite fresh.

This is with regard to time--I don't know whether that is the right parameter in which you wished to study it, Senator.

Senator COOPER. My question really went to this point: Considering the location of the bruise at the apex of the pleural sac----

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. And of the tissue or muscles around it, was there any other factor which you could think of that might have caused that bruise other than the passage of a missile?

Commander HUMES. It was so well localized that I truthfully, sir, can't think of any other way.

Senator COOPER. That is all.

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask you one question which, perhaps, the answer is quite obvious. If, contrary to the evidence that we have here, that anterior wound was the wound of entry, the shot must have come from below the President to have followed that path.

Commander HUMES. That course, that is correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, can you compare the angles of declination on 385, point "C" to "D", with 388 "A" to "B"?

Commander HUMES. You will note, and again I must apologize for the schematic nature of these diagrams drawn to a certain extent from memory and to a certain extent from the written record, it would appear that the angle of declination is somewhat sharper in the head wound, 388, than it is in 385.

The reason for this, we feel, by the pattern of the entrance wound at 388 "A" causes us to feel that the President's head was bent forward, and we feel this accounts for the difference in the angle, plus undoubtedly the wounds were not received absolutely simultaneously, so that the vehicle in which the President was traveling moved during this period of time, which would account for a difference in the line of flight, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Aside from the slight differences which are notable by observing those two exhibits, are they roughly comparable to the angle of decline?

Commander HUMES. I believe them to be roughly comparable, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Could you state for the record an approximation of the angle of decline?

Commander HUMES. Mathematics is not my forte. Approximately 45 degrees from the horizontal.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you elaborate somewhat, Doctor Humes, on why the angle would change by virtue of a tilting of the head of the President since the basis of the computation of angle is with respect to the ground?

Commander HUMES. I find the question a little difficult of answering right off, forgive me, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. I will try to rephrase it. Stated more simply, why would the tilting of the President's head affect the angle of the decline? You stated that was----

Commander HUMES. The angle that I am making an observation most about is the angle made that we envisioned having been made by the impingement of the bullet in its flight at the point of entry. This angle we see by the difference of the measurement of the two wounds.

Therefore, this is--we have several angles we are talking about here, unfortunately, this is--the angle of which we speak in this location, "A" to "B", and it is difficult.

I have to retract. Since we feel from their physical configurations, wounds 385 "C" and 388 "A" are entrance wounds, if there wasn't some significant change in the angulation of the President's head with respect to the line of flight from these missiles, the physical measurements of 385 "C" and this 388 "A" should be similar. They aren't, in fact, dissimilar in that there is a greater angulation in 388 "A". Therefore, there has to be either a change in the position of the vehicle in which the President is riding with respect to the horizontal or a change in the situation of the President's head. I believe that the exhibits submitted earlier, the photograph----

Mr. SPECTER. I believe the ones were given to you so far--excuse me, you are right, 389.

Commander HUMES. 389, in fact at this point shows the President's head in a slightly inclined forward position, and I am not enough aware of the geography of the ground over which the vehicle was traveling to know how much that would affect it.

Mr. SPECTER. If you were to be told that there was a distance traversed of approximately 150 feet from the time of Point "C" on 385 to Point "A" on 388, and you would assume the additional factor that there was a slight angle of decline on the street as well, would those factors, assuming them to be true, help in the explanation of the differences in the angles?

Commander HUMES. I think that they would make the figure as depicted in 388 quite understandably different from 385.

Mr. DULLES. Was it possible, in view of the condition of the brain to point with absolute accuracy to the point of exit there? I can see that the point of exit in 385 can be clearly determined. Is it equally possible to determine the point of exit in 388?

Commander HUMES. No, sir; it was not, other than through this large defect because when----

Mr. DULLES. Therefore, that angle might be somewhat different.

Commander HUMES. Might be somewhat different, sir. I think we made reference to that somewhat earlier. The fragments were so difficult to replace in their precise anatomic location----

Mr. DULLES. That is what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

Commander HUMES. That is correct.

Mr. McCLOY. I would like to ask a question in regard to 385 similar to that I asked as to 388. In your opinion, was the 385 wound lethal?

Commander HUMES. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. With the wound in 385, would it have affected the President's power of speech?

Commander HUMES. It could have, sir. The wound caused a defect in his trachea which would most usually have caused at least some defect in the proper phonation, sir.

(Discussion off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. On the record.

Mr. SPECTER. In response to Mr. Dulles' question a moment ago, Doctor Humes, you commented that they did not turn him over at Parkland. Will you state for the record what the source of your information is on that?

Commander HUMES. Yes. This is a result of a personal telephone conversation between myself and Dr. Malcolm Perry early in the morning of Saturday, November 23.

Mr. SPECTER. At that time did Doctor Perry tell you specifically, Doctor Humes, that the Parkland doctors had not observed the wound in the President's back?

Commander HUMES. He told me that the President was on his back from the time he was brought into the hospital until the time he left it, and that at no time was he turned from his back by the doctors.

Mr. SPECTER. And at the time of your conversation with Doctor Perry did you tell Doctor Perry anything of your observations or conclusions?

Commander HUMES. No, sir; I did not.

(A short recess was taken.)

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, the Commission will be in order. We will continue with the examination.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Humes, as to points of entry on the body of the late President, how many were there in total?

Commander HUMES. Two, sir, as depicted in 385-C and 388-A.

Mr. SPECTER. And to points of exit, how many were there?

Commander HUMES. Two, sir, as depicted in 385-D and the vicinity of 388-B. I make the latter remark as was developed earlier, in that the size of the large defect in the skull was so great and the fragmentation was so complex that it was impossible to accurately pinpoint the exit of the missile in the head wound.

Mr. SPECTER. Now as to that last factor, would the X-rays be of material assistance to you in pinpointing the specific locale of the exit?

Commander HUMES. I do not believe so, sir. The only path that the X-rays show in any detail are of the minor fragments which passed from point A to point B.

Mr. SPECTER. Now that you have finished your major descriptions of the wounds, can you be any more specific in telling us in what way the availability of the x-rays would assist in further specifying the nature of the wounds?

Commander HUMES. I do not believe, sir, that the availability of the X-rays would materially assist the Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. How about the same question as to the pictures?

Commander HUMES. The pictures would show more accurately and in more detail the character of the wounds as depicted particularly in 385 and 386 and in 388-A. They would also perhaps give the Commissioners a better--better is not the best term, but a more graphic picture of the massive defect in 388.

Mr. SPECTER. Going back for a moment, Doctor Humes----

The CHAIRMAN. Before we get off that, may I ask you this, Commander: If we had the pictures here and you could look them over again and restate your opinion, would it cause you to change any of the testimony you have given here?

Commander HUMES. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Chief Justice, it would not.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McCloy.

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask this question?

The CHAIRMAN. Go right ahead.

Mr. McCLOY. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not any photographs were taken in Dallas?

Commander HUMES. I have none, sir, no knowledge.

Mr. McCLOY. No knowledge that any were taken?

Representative FORD. May I ask what size are the pictures to which you refer?

Commander HUMES. We exposed both black and white and color negatives, Congressman. They were exposed in the morgue during the examination. They were not developed. The kodachrome negatives when developed would be 405. They were in film carriers or cassettes, as were the black and white. Of course they could be magnified.

Representative FORD. Have those been examined by personnel at Bethesda?

Commander HUMES. No, sir. We exposed these negatives; we turned them over. Here I must ask the counsel again for advice--to the Secret Service.

Mr. SPECTER. Yes; it was the Secret Service.

Commander HUMES. They were turned over to the Secret Service in their cassettes unexposed, and I have not seen any of them since. This is the photographs. The X-rays were developed in our X-ray department on the spot that evening, because we had to see those right then as part of our examination, but the photographs were made for the record and for other purposes.

Representative FORD. But they had never been actually developed for viewing.

Commander HUMES. I do not know, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Humes, back to the angles for just a moment.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Hypothesize or assume, if you will, that other evidence will show that the wound inflicted on Commission Exhibit 385 at point C occurred while the President was riding in the rear seat of his automobile approximately 100 feet from a point of origin in a six-floor building nearby, and assume further that the wound inflicted in 388 at point A occurred when the President was approximately 250 feet away from the same point.

With those assumptions in mind, there would be somewhat different angles of declination going from C to D on 385 and from A to B on 388.

Commander HUMES. I would expect there would.

Mr. SPECTER. You have already testified earlier today that you were unable to pinpoint with precision angle A to B on 388 because of the reconstruction of the scalp.

Now my question to you, in that elongated fashion, is from what you know and what you have described, are the angles, as you have expressed them to be in your opinion, consistent with a situation where the two wounds were inflicted at the angles and at the distances just described to you?

Commander HUMES. I believe they are consistent. I would state that the path outlined on 388-A to B is to a certain extent conjectural for the reasons given before.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, Doctor Humes, I hand you a group of documents which have been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 397 and ask you if you can identify what they are?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; these are various notes in long-hand, or copies rather, of various notes in long-hand made by myself, in part, during the performance of the examination of the late President, and in part after the examination when I was preparing to have a typewritten report made.

Mr. SPECTER. Are there also included there some notes that you made while you talked to Doctor Perry on the telephone?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; there are.

Mr. SPECTER. Are there any notes which you made at any time which are not included in this group of notes?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; there are.

Mr. SPECTER. And what do those consist of?

Commander HUMES. In privacy of my own home, early in the morning of Sunday, November 24th, I made a draft of this report which I later revised, and of which this represents the revision. That draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that the Exhibit No. 397 is the identical document which has been previously identified as Commission No. 371 for our internal purposes.

Is the first sheet then in that group the notes you made when you talked to Doctor Perry?

Commander HUMES. That is correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And do the next 15 sheets represent the rough draft which was later copied into the autopsy report which has been heretofore identified with an exhibit number?

Commander HUMES. That is correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what do the next two sheets represent?

Commander HUMES. The next two sheets are the notes actually made in the room in which the examination was taking place. I notice now that the handwriting in some instances is not my own, and it is either that of Commander Boswell or Colonel Finck.

Mr. SPECTER. And was that writing made at the same time that the autopsy report was undertaken; that is, did you review all of the markings on those papers and note them to be present when you completed the autopsy report?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir. From the time of the completion of this examination until the submission of the written report following its preparation, all of the papers pertinent to this case were in my personal custody.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described all of the documents which were present in that 397, Exhibit No. 397?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; with the exception of the certification to the fact that I, in fact, detailed them in my custody, and a certification that I had destroyed certain preliminary draft notes.

Mr. SPECTER. And these represent all the notes except those you have already described which you destroyed?

Commander HUMES. That is correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, just one point on the notes themselves. Page 14 of your rough draft, Doctor Humes, as to the point of origin, the notes show that there was a revision between your first draft and your final report.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you first of all read into the record the final conclusion reflected in your final report.

Commander HUMES. I would rather read it from the final report. The final report reads:

"The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased."

Mr. SPECTER. And what did the first draft of that sentence as shown on page 14 of your rough draft state?

Commander HUMES. It stated as follows:

"The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above a horizontal line to the vertical position of the body at the moment of impact."

Mr. SPECTER. Now would you state the reason for making that modification between draft and final report, please?

Commander HUMES. This examination, as I have indicated, was performed by myself with my two associates. The notes which we have just admitted as an exhibit are in my own hand and are my opinion, was my opinion at that time, as to the best way to present the facts which we had gleaned during this period.

Before submitting it to the typist, I went over this with great care with my two associates. One or the other of them raised the point that perhaps this sentence would state more than what was absolutely fact based upon our observations, pointing out that we did not know precisely at that time in what position the body of the President was when the missiles struck, and that therefore we should be somewhat less specific and somewhat more circumspect than the way we stated it. When I considered this suggestion, I agreed that it would be better to change it as noted, and accordingly, I did so.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I move now for the admission into evidence of Exhibit No. 397.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The documents, previously marked Exhibit No. 397 for identification, were received in evidence.)

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask one question about the notes? The notes that you made contemporaneously with your examination, you said you put those down and then you put some in later. How much later were the notes, within the best of your recollection of the final notes made, not the final report, but the final notes that you made in your own handwriting?

Commander HUMES. The examination was concluded approximately at 11 o'clock on the night of November 22. The final changes in the notes prior to the typing of the report were made, and I will have to give you the time because whatever time Mr. Oswald was shot, that is about when I finished. I was working in an office, and someone had a television on and came in and told me that Mr. Oswald had been shot, and that was around noon on Sunday, November 24th.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, I have now marked another photograph as the next exhibit number, Commission Exhibit 398. May I say to the Commission that this is a photograph which, subject to later proof, will show it to be taken immediately after the President was struck by the first bullet.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be marked.

(The photograph was marked Commission Exhibit No. 398 for identification.)

May I move for its admission into evidence at this time for this purpose?

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The photograph, previously marked Commission Exhibit No. 398 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Looking at Commission Exhibit 398, Doctor Humes, with that as a background, have you had an opportunity to review the medical reports on Governor Connally at Parkland Hospital in Commission Exhibit 392?

Commander HUMES. I have.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you noted the wounds which he sustained on his right wrist, that is, Governor Connally's right wrist?

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir; I have noted the report of it in these records.

Mr. SPECTER. What does the report show as to those wounds on the right wrist?

Commander HUMES. The report shows a wound of entrance on the dorsal aspect of the right wrist. Let's get the precise point here. The wound of entry is described as on the dorsal aspect of the right wrist above the junction of the distal fourth of the radius and the shaft. It was approximately two centimeters in length and rather oblique, with the loss of tissue, and some considerable contusions at the margins. There was a wound of exit along the volar surface of the wrist about two centimeters above the flexion crease of the wrist in the midline.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Humes, I show you a bullet which we have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 399, and may I say now that, subject to later proof, this is the missile which has been taken from the stretcher which the evidence now indicates was the stretcher occupied by Governor Connally.

I move for its admission into evidence at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The article, previously marked Commission Exhibit No. 399 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Mr. SPECTER. We have been asked by the FBI that the missile not be handled by anybody because it is undergoing further ballistic tests, and it now appears, may the record show, in a plastic case in a cotton background.

Now looking at that bullet, Exhibit 399, Doctor Humes, could that bullet have gone through or been any part of the fragment passing through President Kennedy's head in Exhibit No. 388?

Commander HUMES. I do not believe so, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And could that missile have made the wound on Governor Connally's right wrist?

Commander HUMES. I think that that is most unlikely. May I expand on those two answers?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please do.

Commander HUMES. The X-rays made of the wound in the head of the late President showed fragmentations of the missile. Some fragments we recovered and turned over, as has been previously noted. Also we have X-rays of the fragment of skull which was in the region of our opinion exit wound showing metallic fragments.

Also going to Exhibit 392, the report from Parkland Hospital, the following sentence referring to the examination of the wound of the wrist is found:

"Small bits of metal were encountered at various levels throughout the wound, and these were, wherever they were identified and could be picked up, picked up and submitted to the pathology department for identification and examination."

The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be intact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations.

Mr. SPECTER. What wounds did Governor Connally sustain in his chest area, based upon the records of Parkland Hospital, which you have examined, Doctor Humes?

Commander HUMES. Governor Connally received in his chest a wound of entrance just--this is again from 392--"just lateral to the right scapula close to the axilla which had passed through the lattisimus dorsi muscle, shattered approximately ten centimeters of a lateral and anterior portion of the right fifth rib, and emerged below the right nipple anterially."

These were the wounds of the chest of Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. Now assuming that there were only three missiles fired, and bearing in mind the positions of President Kennedy and Governor Connally from the photograph marked Commission Exhibit 398, do you have an opinion as to the source of the missiles which inflicted the wound on President Kennedy marked 385-C to D, and the wound in Governor Connally's chest which you have just referred to?

Commander HUMES. Yes. I would preface this statement by the following: As I testified earlier in the afternoon, as much as we could ascertain from our X-rays and physical examinations, this missile struck no bony structures in traversing the body of the late President. Therefore, I believe it was moving at its exit from the President's body at only very slightly less than that velocity, so it was still traveling at great speed.

I believe in looking at Exhibit 398, which purports to be at approximately the time the President was struck, I see that Governor Connally is sitting directly in front of the late President, and suggest the possibility that this missile, having traversed the low neck of the late President, in fact traversed the chest of Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. How much of the velocity, if any, or would there be an appreciable diminution of the velocity of the projectile on passing through the portions of President Kennedy's body which you have described?

Commander HUMES. I would have to defer to my associate, Colonel Finck, for an opinion about this.

Mr. SPECTER. Fine. As to any damage to the rib which you described Governor Connally sustained, would that impact or trauma be consistent with the markings which are shown on Exhibit 399?

Commander HUMES. I think it quite possible. Here I think if this point were to be explored further, a most valuable piece of evidence would be an X-ray of the chest of Governor Connally, because I believe that this missile could have struck the rib a glancing blow.

The rib is a rather rigid structure, and the missile would not have to strike it directly to cause the fracture that was described, and the fracture is not very clearly described to me, and if an X-ray, for instance, showed no metallic fragments in the chest of the Governor, I would think it quite likely that this was the missile that had traversed his chest, because I doubt if this missile would have left behind it any metallic fragments from its physical appearance at this time.

Mr. SPECTER. Could that missile have traversed Governor Connally's chest without having him know it immediately or instantaneously?

Commander HUMES. I believe so. I have heard reports, and have been told by my professional associates of any number of instances where people received penetrating wounds in various portions of the body and have only the sensation of a slight discomfort or slight slap or some other minor difficulty from such a missile wound. I am sure he would be aware that something happened to him, but that he was shot, I am not certain.

Representative FORD. Would that have been the potential reaction of the President when first hit, as shown in 385?

Commander HUMES. It could very easily be one of some type of an injury--I mean the awareness that he had been struck by a missile, I don't know, but people have been drilled through with a missile and didn't know it.

Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, under your opinion which you have just given us, what effect, if any, would that have on whether this bullet, 399, could have been the one to lodge in Governor Connally's thigh?

Commander HUMES. I think that extremely unlikely. The reports, again Exhibit 392 from Parkland, tell of an entrance wound on the lower midthigh of the Governor, and X-rays taken there are described as showing metallic fragments in the bone, which apparently by this report were not removed and are still present in Governor Connally's thigh. I can't conceive of where they came from this missile.

Representative FORD. The missile identified as Exhibit 399.

Commander HUMES. 399, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Humes, would you have an opinion as to whether the wounds on Governor Connally's wrist and thigh were caused by the same bullet?

Commander HUMES. In reading the description of the fragmentation that was found, fragments were found in the wrist, one fragment was found imbedded in his femur, I would feel it was definitely within the realm of possibility that the same missile could have produced both of those injuries.

Mr. SPECTER. Those are all my questions, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions? If not, thank you very much, Commander. You have been very helpful to us, indeed.

Commander HUMES. Thank you very much, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Mr. SPECTER. Commander Boswell.

Mr. McCLOY. May I ask one more question?

The CHAIRMAN. Of course you may.

Mr. McCLOY. Earlier in the afternoon we had taken out of cellophane bags here the clothing of the President.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. And amongst them was the shirt.

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. From your examination of the wounds, of the defects, I guess you would call it in the shirt----

Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. Would you from examining the tissues of that shirt have any conclusions as to how that wound, how that missile passed through the shirt? Was it from the rear to the front, or from the front to the rear?

Commander HUMES. As I examined that exhibit today, sir, the threads are fragmented and distorted in such a fashion which would indicate to me that the missile passed through the shirt from the rear to the front.

TESTIMONY OF COMDR. J. THORNTON BOSWELL, MEDICAL CORPS, U.S. NAVY

The CHAIRMAN. Commander Boswell, will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Commander BOSWELL. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?

Commander BOSWELL. J. Thornton Boswell, Commander, Medical Corps, U.S. Navy.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession?

Commander BOSWELL. Physician.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did you obtain your medical degree, please?

Commander BOSWELL. At the College of Medicine, Ohio State University.

Mr. SPECTER. And what experience have you had in your professional line subsequent to obtaining that degree?

Commander BOSWELL. I interned in the Navy and took my pathology training at St. Albans Naval Hospital in New York. I was certified by the American Board of Pathology in both clinical and pathological anatomy in 1957 and 1958.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your duty assignment at the present time?

Commander BOSWELL. I am the Chief of Pathology at the National Naval Medical School.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to participate in the autopsy of the late President Kennedy?

Commander BOSWELL. I did.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you assist Doctor Humes at that time?

Commander BOSWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you been present here today during the entire course of Doctor Humes' testimony?

Commander BOSWELL. I have, sir; yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything that you would like to add by way of elaboration or modification to that which Doctor Humes has testified?

Commander BOSWELL. None, I believe. Doctor Humes has stated essentially what is the culmination of our examination and our subsequent conference, and everything is exactly as we had determined our conclusions.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you one of the three coauthors of the autopsy report which has been previously identified as a Commission Exhibit?

Commander BOSWELL. Yes; I am.

Mr. SPECTER. All the facts set forth therein are correct in accordance with your analysis and evaluation of the situation?

Commander BOSWELL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And specifically, as to the points of entry and points of exit which have been testified to by Doctor Humes, do his views express yours as well?

Commander BOSWELL. They do, yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Doctor Boswell, would you state for the record what your conclusion was as to the cause of death of President Kennedy?

Commander BOSWELL. The brain injury was the cause of death.

Mr. SPECTER. And in the absence of brain injury, what, in your view, would have been the future status of President Kennedy's mortality, if he had only sustained the wound inflicted in 385?

Commander BOSWELL. I believe it would have been essentially an uneventful recovery. It could have been easily repaired, and I think it would have been of little consequence.

Mr. SPECTER. Those are my only questions, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Does anyone have any questions of the Commander? If not, Commander, thank you very much, indeed. You have been very helpful to us.

Mr. SPECTER. Colonel Finck.

TESTIMONY OF LT. COL. PIERRE A. FINCK, PHYSICIAN, U. S. ARMY

The CHAIRMAN. Colonel Finck.

Colonel, will you raise your right hand and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Colonel FINCK. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated, please, Colonel?

Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?

Colonel FINCK. My first name is Pierre. My middle initial is "A". My last name is Finck.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession, sir?

Colonel FINCK. I am a physician.

Mr. SPECTER. And by whom are you employed?

Colonel FINCK. By the United States Army.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your rank?

Colonel FINCK. I am a lieutenant colonel in the Medical Corps.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did you obtain your medical degree?

Colonel FINCK. At the University of Geneva Medical School in Switzerland.

Mr. SPECTER. And in what year did you obtain that degree?

Colonel FINCK. In 1948.

Mr. SPECTER. What has your experience been in the medical profession subsequent to obtaining that degree?

Colonel FINCK. I had 4 years of training in pathology after my internship, 2 years, including 2 years of pathology at the University Institute of Pathology in Geneva, Switzerland, and 2 years at the University of Tennessee Institute of Pathology in Memphis, Tenn.

Mr. SPECTER. And how long have you been in the United States Army?

Colonel FINCK. Since 1955.

Mr. SPECTER. And what have your duties consisted of in the Army?

Colonel FINCK. From 1955 to 1958 I performed approximately 200 autopsies, many of them pertaining to trauma including missile wounds, stationed at Frankfurt, Germany as pathologist of the United States Army Hospital in Frankfurt, Germany.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you had any additional, special training or experience in missile wounds?

Colonel FINCK. For the past 3 years I was Chief of the Wound Ballistics Pathology Branch of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and in that capacity I reviewed personally all the cases forwarded to us by the Armed Forces, and some civilian cases from the United States and our forces overseas. The number of these cases amounts to approximately 400 cases. I was called as a consultant in the field of missile wounds for this particular case, and also last year in February 1963, the Surgeon General of the Army sent me to Vietnam for a wound ballistics mission. I had to testify in a murder trial involving a 30/30 rifle in the first week of March this year, and I came back yesterday after one week in Panama where I had to testify. I was sent to Panama by the Secretary of the Army regarding the fatalities of the events of 9-10 in January of 1964.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you been certified by the American Board of Pathology, Doctor Finck?

Colonel FINCK. I was certified in pathology anatomy by the American Board of Pathology in 1956, and by the same American Board of Pathology in the field of forensic pathology in 1961.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe briefly for the Commission what forensic pathology involves?

Colonel FINCK. Forensic pathology is the study with the naked eye and with the microscope of injuries, including missile wounds, trauma in general. In summary, it is the part of pathology in relation to the law, violent death being homicide, be it suicide, accidental or undetermined. It also includes unexplained deaths, sudden deaths, and poisoning.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to participate in the autopsy of the late President Kennedy?

Colonel FINCK. Yes; I did.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you one of the three coauthors of the autopsy report which has been previously marked and introduced into evidence here?

Colonel FINCK. Yes, I am.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you had occasion to conduct any experiments on the effect of missile penetration of the brain reflected in the chart which you have brought with you here today?

Colonel FINCK. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Of the skull--let me phrase the question this way: What does the test which is depicted on the document before you relate to?

Colonel FINCK. It is based on my observations, not on experiments.