Chapter XXVI: Part 26

Mr. ARMSTRONG. The last time was sometime during the summer.

Mr. HUBERT. And how long did she stay away?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About a month, I guess. She never was away no more than a month.

Mr. HUBERT. And do you remember about the time she came back?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I sure don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you think it would have been more than 2 months before the President was killed?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I’m pretty sure it was.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you think it would be more than 3 months?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t know--I couldn’t say.

Mr. HUBERT. You are sure it would be more than 2 months but you are not sure it would be as long as 3 months?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. As I say, if she had been working as a waitress all the time, I would know, but a lot of times--half the time she was working as a cocktail girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, what is the difference between a cocktail girl and a stripper?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well,--in other words, a cigarette girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Oh, a cigarette girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She would have the cigarettes--sell the cigarettes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she dress like she was dressed in the pictures that are marked Exhibits 5300-A through 5300-E when she sold cigarettes?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. That was the way she dressed?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She would be dressed in a dress. She was selling cigarettes then.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know if there was anything between Ruby and her of a sexual nature?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; not that I know of.

Mr. HUBERT. Is she married?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She was.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is she married to; do you know?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She has been married--but she was--I don’t know her husband’s name.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever know her by the name of Fillmore?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know a girl by the name of Grace Fillmore?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Or Gloria Fillmore?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t know any such person as Gloria Fillmore?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I can recall.

Mr. HUBERT. What happened to this girl called Alice Alexander after the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She stopped for a while and then she came back later on.

Mr. HUBERT. And she stayed until the club closed?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; she was there.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she have any boy friends you know of?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I know of--she never had anybody come up there and----

Mr. HUBERT. And get her and take her home?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. And get her and take her home.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see Ruby taking her home?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where she lived?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Somewhere in Irving, but I don’t know.

Mr. HUBERT. Where?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. In Irving, Tex.

Mr. HUBERT. [Spelling] I-r-v-i-n-g?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. How do you remember that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Wait a minute; I’m sorry, it’s not Irving--it’s Grand Prairie, because there was an AN number--that’s Grand Prairie.

Mr. HUBERT. Is that far from Dallas?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; it isn’t far from Dallas.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she drive a car?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She drives a car.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I notice in the sign which appears in the background of the photographs identified as Exhibits 5300-A and 5300-B, there are two other names--Tammi True and Sal Ember--who is Tammi True?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Tammi True was a stripper.

Mr. HUBERT. Was she there at the time of the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she stay on afterwards?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She stayed on.

Mr. HUBERT. Until the place closed?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She wasn’t there at the time--she was there prior--no, she was there before the assassination--some weeks she had quit--served out her contract and she came back afterwards.

Mr. HUBERT. How long before----

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About a week, I would say.

Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t let me finish my question--how long before the assassination of the President did her contract expire, so that she left or quit about a week, you say?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About a week.

Mr. HUBERT. And she had been there for some time?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She had been there--she was there when I got there and she was booked there off and on all while I was there.

Mr. HUBERT. What about Sal Ember?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s not Sal Ember--that should have been--you see, some of the letters are missing--this was--this should be Cindy Embers.

Mr. HUBERT. Let’s take the top line first--the pictures, Exhibits 5300-A and 5300-B show on the top line the letters [spelling] S-a-l. You say that that was wrong and it should be something else and that some letters are missing?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What should it have been?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, the Sal should have been Sal Vincent.

Mr. HUBERT. Vincent [spelling] V-i-n-c-e-n-t?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Something like that--I think so.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was Sal Vincent?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A comedian.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, the next name that appears on Exhibits 5300-A and 5300-B in the sign in the background below the word [spelling] S-a-l, is the word Ember [spelling] E-m-b-e-r, and I think you said that’s wrong too, because of the absence of letters?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What should have been the letters?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Cindy Embers.

Mr. HUBERT. Cindy [spelling] C-i-n-d-y?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Embers [spelling] E-m-b-e-r-s?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. And who was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A stripper.

Mr. HUBERT. Was she there at the time of the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. When did she leave?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She left sometime ago--back, I think, the last time she was booked there was back in the summer. She never worked there over 3 or 4 weeks.

Mr. HUBERT. And what about Sal Vincent?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He did--the first month after Wally Weston left.

Mr. HUBERT. When did Sal Vincent leave, how long before the death of the President?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About a month, I would say.

Mr. HUBERT. And how long had he been there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About a month.

Mr. HUBERT. And now, is it safe to say then, that these two pictures, Exhibits 5300-A and 5300-B must have been taken during the month of October 1903?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Because that’s the only time when that sign would have made sense as to when those people were there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. You don’t recall the occasion when these pictures were taken?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Armstrong, it is necessary for us to recess your deposition for a short period of time and during this recess will you please examine the other pictures I have shown you and then we will resume your deposition later.

(Short recess.)

Mr. HUBERT. Now, Mr. Armstrong, we discontinued or recessed your deposition about 20 minutes to a half hour ago.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. And now we are recommencing it and you understand, of course, that this is just merely a continuation of the deposition under the same authority under which it began, and that you must consider yourself under the same oath that you were at first?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a group of five pictures marked Exhibits 5301-A, B, C, D, and E. I have placed on the back of them “Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964, Deposition of Andrew Armstrong,” and signed my name and I have given each one an exhibit number as indicated. Now, I would like for you to look at those pictures for a while and then I am going to ask you some questions concerning them.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. [Examined exhibits referred to.]

Mr. HUBERT. Now, in all of the five pictures which compose Exhibit 5301, there is a man; who is that man?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack Ruby.

Mr. HUBERT. Also in all of those pictures there are two girls, and will you agree with me that in all five of them one girl is always on the left side of the picture as you look at it and one girl is always on the right side of the picture as you look at it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell who the girl on the left side of the picture is in each one of these pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. Joy Dale?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. In other words she was Joyce McDonald.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is the girl on the right-hand side, the blonde girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. “Little” Lynn.

Mr. HUBERT. Is that the same as Karen Bennett Carlin?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember when these pictures were taken?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I sure don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. You mentioned some time ago that you recall when some individual named Rocco came in and took a group of pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Were you there when he took the pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that particular one. I didn’t know he made that one. It could have been done while I was out tending the bar or something like that.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize the scene that is in the pictures in the series Exhibit 5301?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What is that, please?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s the office.

Mr. HUBERT. Jack’s office?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What is it the two girls are sitting on?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s the couch.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, tell us what you know about the girl in the left-hand side of the picture as you look at it, that is to say, the girl with the dark hair?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, all I know----

Mr. HUBERT. And whom I think you have identified as Joyce McDonald.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Whose stage name, shall we say, was what?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. What do you know about her?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just that she is a stripper at the club.

Mr. HUBERT. How long had she been there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She had been there some--maybe 4 months before the assassination.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you think she came about the middle of the summer, then, July or August?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Let me see--let’s see--September.

Mr. HUBERT. Mid-September?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Do--how do you fix that, Mr. Armstrong?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, it was around the time that Wally left. I don’t know whether she was there right after Wally left or just before Wally left.

Mr. HUBERT. Had she ever been there before, do you know?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. How long did she stay after the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She left sometime--during the--about 3 weeks in January of 1964.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean she was there 3 weeks in January and then quit?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where she lived?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. What salary do those strippers get?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Anywhere from $100 to $125.

Mr. HUBERT. A week?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A week--some of them made $150--some was $200.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what the relationship was between Joyce McDonald and Jack Ruby, if any?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just a business relationship as far as I could see.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she go out to dinner with him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I know of.

Mr. HUBERT. Did there seem to be any kind of social relationship between them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I know.

Mr. HUBERT. Did there seem to be any kind of romantic or sexual relationship between them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby have any sexual or romantic relationships with any of the girls in his club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I would say he had some, as far as I know romantic relationships. In other words, he was always on the make.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, coming to Joyce McDonald, do you think she--that he was on the make with respect to her?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I would not state definitely, but I believe he probably tried.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she have any boy friends around there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; not that I know of.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whom she lived with?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I sure don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Did she drive an automobile?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She didn’t drive.

Mr. HUBERT. How did she get to and from work; do you know?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Usually somebody would bring her to work--I only saw her downstairs getting out of a car once and some man drove her to work, and that’s the only time I ever saw her getting out of a car.

Mr. HUBERT. You would usually leave at night before they did, didn’t you?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What about the other girl, the one on the right-hand side of the pictures as you look at them, which have been identified as series Exhibits 5301-A through 5301-E? I think you have said that the girls there, the blonde, is “Little” Lynn or Karen Bennett Carlin, is that correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s correct.

Mr. HUBERT. She was married to Bruce Carlin?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; that’s what they said.

Mr. HUBERT. She was the one, or rather her husband was the one that Jack didn’t want around the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. She was the one, I think, that you called on Friday, the day of the assassination to tell her that the club would be closed that night?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And that you could not reach the next day?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you know anything about either of these two girls that you have not testified to so far?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a single picture which I have marked on here for the purpose of identification as follows: “Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964, Exhibit 5302, Deposition of Andrew Armstrong,” and I have signed my name, and I ask you to look at that picture. It seems to be the picture of a man, and I ask you whether you can identify that man or not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s Rocco, the photographer, that made the pictures--took the series of pictures at the Carousel Club.

Mr. HUBERT. He was there for a week, you said?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And what period of time was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. What?

Mr. HUBERT. What period of time was he there--when was that week?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Around the 1st of November.

Mr. HUBERT. From the 1st to the 7th or 8th of November?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Something like that--yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he pay anything for the purpose of taking those pictures--did--to your knowledge, did he pay anything?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. HUBERT. He got the consent of Mr. Ruby?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I want to show you a series of pictures which have been marked for identification as follows, to wit:

“Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1904, Exhibit 5303, Deposition of Andrew Armstrong,” and I have marked my name on each of them, and they are numbered, in addition to Exhibit No. 5303, of which they form a part of the series, they are numbered A through I, and I ask you to look at those pictures, please.

Mr. Armstrong [examined pictures referred to].

Mr. HUBERT. All right, now you have examined the several pictures constituting Exhibit 5303, marked in a series as A through I, and I will ask you whether you can recognize anybody in any of these pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Let’s then take Exhibit No. 5303-A, first, and tell me whom you recognize in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. This right here--the first picture.

Mr. HUBERT. We are talking about the top picture on the left hand side--right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right--is Joy Dale, and the M.C. that’s shown in all of these pictures, the little man on the stage--give me a minute and I will try to think of his name, but coming down the line, the second picture on the left hand side is Tammi True.

Mr. HUBERT. That’s the girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s the girl--she is being held up by a very huge gentleman by the name of--oh--I know his name--his name is Tiny--he comes in the club quite often and he usually gets the same seat--a special chair we had there for him.

Mr. HUBERT. This picture appears several times, does it not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, it appears in the third row of the left-hand picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. And it appears in the bottom row of the left-hand picture, correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. How often would that man come to the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he started to coming there back in the summer--last summer and he was usually there--he very seldom missed a weekend.

Mr. HUBERT. You knew him only as Tiny?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. As Tiny.

Mr. HUBERT. You never heard his last name?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he friendly with Ruby?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not friendly--just that--he didn’t well, you could say they was friendly, but they didn’t know each other, anything about each other’s backgrounds, or anything like that.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him talking with him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, not conversationally.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you see them go out together and come back together?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he spend a lot of money there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, a few beers was all.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him with anyone else?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. He always came alone?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. One time he came there with a couple other guys, but just once, otherwise, he was all alone.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know the other men he came with?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember when he came in with the other two men?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No--the top picture is----

Mr. HUBERT. Wait a minute, before we leave the big man called Tiny, when was the last time you saw him, to your knowledge?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Three or four nights ago--Saturday night--I think.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean this past Saturday night?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about April 11?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Where did you see him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. At the Theatre Lounge.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you work there now?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, I stopped by and say hello to a friend of mine that works there and bartends.

Mr. HUBERT. And he was over there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I have saw him in there, oh, about four times I think in the last month--I would say.

Mr. HUBERT. And prior to that, when was the last time you saw him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Prior to that--the last time I saw him was at the club.

Mr. HUBERT. When was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, I would say it was probably the last weekend before we closed.

Mr. HUBERT. He continued to come to the club, then, after the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever talk to him about Ruby’s shooting Oswald?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever hear him talk to anybody else about it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, never did. The reason why he’s got to be so popular is because he is a helper--he cracks a few jokes and the M.C.’s like to talk to him because he don’t get out of line when they talk to him, and he is usually called on during the spinning of the roulette wheel, or something like that, and if he won a bottle of champagne or something like that, it was a big thing.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he employed by the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, he wasn’t employed, he was just a regular customer that has very nice conduct and has a good sense of humor.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the M.C.’s figure they can always get a kick out of him, which would amuse the audience?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a picture which is marked for identification as Exhibit 5303-1, and ask you if that is not that same fat man on the right-hand middle of the picture, with a white shirt, with his right hand on his hip and the left hand leaning on the stage right by the microphone?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. That’s the man, Tiny, that you have identified as being in Exhibit 5303-A; is that correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. And while we are looking at Exhibit 5303-I, who is the girl dancing there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody else in the picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. The waitress over there.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean the one with the white blouse?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And she has dark hair; you can’t see her face, but you can see the back of her figure.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I think it’s Bonnie.

Mr. HUBERT. Bonnie who?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bonnie Kelley is all I know.

Mr. HUBERT. That girl you are identifying is in the left middle of the picture; right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Right behind the man with the gray suit and with his left hand by his mouth and a cigarette in his left hand; is that right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s correct; and this is Tiny’s usual position--his usual sitting position--he always gets this table right here [indicating].

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I wish you would just take these pictures, starting with Exhibit 5303-B, and just state for the record who is in the picture that you know, identifying each of the particular frames, by saying whether it is in the top row, second row, third row, or fourth row, and then whether it is on the left-hand side, the middle, or the right-hand side.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. On the top row on the left-hand side is Tammi True. On the top row in the middle is Tammi True.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, perhaps we could shorten this by putting it this way: On this number of pictures, 12 to be exact, of Exhibit 5303-B, the girl who is doing the act is Tammi True--right--in all of them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. It isn’t?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. On the series of pictures in the left line down from the top to bottom and in the middle from top to bottom is Tammi True. The pictures on the right-hand side--the brighter pictures--are Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. All four of them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All four of them.

Mr. HUBERT. On the right-hand side?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You have identified the pictures on Exhibit 5303-B?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, will you look at Exhibit 5303-C? There are 12 pictures on that, and they are all the same girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. They are all the same girl, Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anyone else in there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No one else.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, take Exhibit 5303-D. There are 12 pictures in that and they are all of the same girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; they are all the same girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is she?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Little Lynn.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I’ll ask you to look at Exhibit 5303-E. There are 12 pictures on that, showing various poses of a girl, is it all the same girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; all the same girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. Is there anybody else in there you recognize?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No one else.

Mr. HUBERT. Then, take the next picture, which has been identified as Exhibit 5303-F, also consisting of 12 pictures, except that in the second row the middle picture is blank, so that there are really only 11 pictures, and I ask you if the same girl is in all those pictures; that is to say, the dancer?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, then, let’s take the left-hand row from top to bottom. Is it the same girl in those four pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Same girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. And in the middle series there is a top picture and the next one down is blank and then the third and fourth rows from the top, there are two others--who is in those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. In all of them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All of them.

Mr. HUBERT. Then, move to the right-hand row; there are four pictures from the top down, and will you identify them? Are they different girls in those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; that’s Little Lynn.

Mr. HUBERT. They are all of Little Lynn?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Is there anybody else in there you recognize in those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just a waitress in the bottom picture.

Mr. HUBERT. In the bottom right-hand picture; right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. The girl with dark glasses on, on the right-hand side of that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Correct.

Mr. HUBERT. Does she have shorts on, or something?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. She has some white slacks on.

Mr. HUBERT. And a black sweater?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bonnie Kelley.

Mr. HUBERT. I think that’s the girl you identified in a previous picture; is that right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Anybody else you recognize?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; no one else.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a group of 12 pictures identified as Exhibit 5303-G, and ask you if the same girl is in all of those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. The same girl.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is the girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Tammi True.

Mr. HUBERT. Anybody else you recognize in any of those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Then, I show you an exhibit marked 5303-H, also a group of 12 pictures, and ask you to start with the row of 4 pictures on the right-hand side from the top to the bottom; who is in those 4 pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. Kathy Kay?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, no; on the right-hand side?

Mr. HUBERT. On the right-hand side.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; this is Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. She is in all four of those?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All four of them.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, take the middle row; who is the girl in those?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize the man?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. No; the left-hand row of four pictures--the two from the top--the first and second pictures from the top, can you identify those people?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Kathy Kay.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, the lower pictures on the left-hand row; there are two people, a man and a girl; who are they?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s Kathy Kay; I don’t know who the man is.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he employed by the club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, Mr. Armstrong, we have been taking your deposition all day and it is now 5:15 p.m., and I suggest that we adjourn and that you come back Thursday morning--can you do that--or Thursday afternoon?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Can you come in without any further notice on Thursday, April 16?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. All right; we will recess your deposition until that time and complete it on Thursday, April 16.

TESTIMONY OF ANDREW ARMSTRONG, JR. RESUMED

The testimony of Andrew Armstrong, Jr., was taken at 9:12 a.m., on April 16, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.

Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Armstrong, you recall that day before yesterday we recessed the taking of your deposition because it was getting late in the day?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And we made an appointment to continue it today at 1:30, but that was changed again to 9 o’clock?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s right.

Mr. HUBERT. That’s satisfactory with you?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you understand that what we are going to do today is simply a continuation of the deposition that was begun the other day; you understand that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. That I am acting under the same authority, that you are here in the same way that you were here before, and that you are under the same oath that you were under when you testified before?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Except there has been a recess just like there was on Tuesday when we recessed for lunch?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Only this recess has been a little longer?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Armstrong, when we left off the other day, you had been examining a number of pictures which had been marked for identification as Exhibit 5303, and I believe that you had examined all of the pictures in that series except those marked for identification as Exhibits 5303-J, K, L, and M. Now, I show you, first of all, the picture identified as Exhibit 5303-J, and ask you if you recognize what place is pictured there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s the Carousel Club.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I recognize the girl standing on the stage.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean the girl with the dark skirt, light sweater, and with long tresses?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. The picture shows only the back of her?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, she is right back of the microphone?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is that girl?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Tammi True.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is the man just in front of her, right in the center of the picture, leaning over?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s a customer; I don’t know who he is.

Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know who he was?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever seen him before?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody else in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just the M.C. standing back by the girl, but I can’t recall his name.

Mr. HUBERT. When you say “the M.C.,” you are, referring to the person in that picture whose head stands between Tammi True and the customer you have identified and actually right above the top of the microphone?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. He was an M.C.?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know his name?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I can’t recall.

Mr. HUBERT. Was that Wally Weston?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Who followed Wally Weston; do you know?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sal Vincent; he followed Wally Weston, and this guy followed Sal Vincent.

Mr. HUBERT. It that Bill DeMar?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I don’t think so.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember when Sal Vincent left?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sal was only there 2 or 3 weeks. In other words, you could say the last part of--during the last part of September, I would say.

Mr. HUBERT. That was Vincent, you say?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; Sal Vincent.

Mr. HUBERT. Then he left, you mean, in the last part of September?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. He was there about 3 weeks?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. About 3 weeks.

Mr. HUBERT. And Wally Weston had been there before him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. How long had Weston been there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Wally had been there since about June 1062.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he had been there about 15 months when he left?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And he was following Sal Vincent?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And Sal Vincent stayed 3 weeks, until about the end of September?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And this man you have identified as the M.C. in Exhibit 5303-J took his place?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And he stayed how long?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He stayed about a month, I would say; he stayed about a month.

Mr. HUBERT. Would you say that he stayed until about November 1 or later?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I would say he stayed about that.

Mr. HUBERT. And who followed him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bill DeMar.

Mr. HUBERT. And how long did Bill stay--Bill DeMar stay?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bill DeMar stayed up until after the assassination.

Mr. HUBERT. And how long had Bill DeMar been there when the assassination took place?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. 3 weeks--3 or 4 weeks, I guess.

Mr. HUBERT. You think that Bill DeMar came in there about the 1st of November?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And that he took the place of Sal Vincent?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes--no--no, he took the place of this man right here [indicating picture].

Mr. HUBERT. That man?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. The man I can’t identify.

Mr. HUBERT. He took the place of the man whose name you can’t remember, in Exhibit 5303-J, but whose name you don’t remember?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. If you do happen to remember his name a little later on, will you interrupt me and tell us about it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All right.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody else in that picture, identified as Exhibit 5303-J?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. All right, then I show you a picture which has been marked for identification as Exhibit 5303-K, and I ask you to look at it.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All right [examining instrument referred to].

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what the place is?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, that’s the club--I’m sure of that--I’m sure that that is the Carousel Club.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody in it at all?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; the waitress in the upper right-hand corner.

Mr. HUBERT. The waitress in the far background in the upper right-hand corner, whose profile can be seen, and also her left arm--she seems to have a white blouse on, right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. She is standing by a picture frame or a window or something, correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s our little Margie--her name is Margie.

Mr. HUBERT. Margie what?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Margie Norman.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody else?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. I’m marking with an arrow, which I am placing my initials on, and I ask you to place your initials on next to that arrow too, and the arrow points to a man about in the center of the picture at the bottom, and he has on what appears to be a grayish checked shirt--you can see him by profile--he parts his hair on his left side. Do you know who that man is?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen him before?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. And you recognize nobody else in the picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you pictures marked for identification as Exhibits 5303-L, and ask you if you recognize the place, first?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It’s the Carousel Club.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is on the stage holding the mike?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack Ruby.

Mr. HUBERT. Who else is in the picture that you recognize?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No one else.

Mr. HUBERT. I show you another picture which has been identified as Exhibit 5303-M, and ask you first if you can identify the place?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is the man on the stage holding the mike?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack Ruby.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize anybody else in the picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a picture which has been marked for identification as Exhibit 5304-A and ask you to look at that picture and tell us, first of all, if you recognize the place?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, I don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Is it the Carousel Club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. How do you know it is not the Carousel; how do you distinguish it from the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, the whole picture--it’s definitely not the Carousel.

Mr. HUBERT. Did the Carousel have that kind of furniture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did it have a bar?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did it have a bar with liquor bottles on it like that one does?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did it have chandeliers like that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize any person in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, I sure don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know the man sitting at the table in the foreground of the picture who is being served a drink by a girl in costume?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen him at the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t remember him.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen him anywhere?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. What about the girl who is serving him the drink, do you recognize her?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You have never seen her any place?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you see a man in the picture near the bar who appears to be the bartender?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean you don’t see him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I see him, but I can’t see him too clear--I don’t recognize him.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know a man by the name of Mike Ryan?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Is that Mike Ryan?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You are certain that it is not Mike Ryan?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Positive.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was Mike Ryan?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was just a--he came in--the first time I ever met him he was with Jack, and he was sort of a lone wolf sort of on the go all the time.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he come around the Carousel very much?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. At one time--I would say it was within a period of a couple of weeks he was around there quite often.

Mr. HUBERT. When was that period of a couple of weeks that he came around there very often?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don’t recall--it was during last summer.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean the summer of 1963?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Would it have been when Wally Weston was there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It was when Wally Weston was there.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he come after that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. But not as often?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever hear of Ruby and him discussing anything?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, I guess, business.

Mr. HUBERT. What was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. They were discussing business.

Mr. HUBERT. They were discussing business?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Jack was always discussing some kind of business with somebody--he always had some kind of idea about another club or another kind of business.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what kind of business he was discussing with the man you have named as Mike Ryan?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A private club.

Mr. HUBERT. You heard such a conversation?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean another private club in addition to the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, the Carousel wasn’t a private club.

Mr. HUBERT. Oh, I see; so in other words, the thought was to open a private club?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just talk though.

Mr. HUBERT. And talk is all you would know about?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes. I mean--it was just one of Jack’s wild ideas, that’s all.

Mr. HUBERT. Why do you characterize it as a wild idea?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he always had these ideas--it was something this day and something the next day.

Mr. HUBERT. But the only reason you are saying this was a wild idea is because you are thinking it was like some of his other wild ideas?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. But other than that you don’t know whether it was a wild idea or not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of any other business between Ryan and Ruby?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; no more.

Mr. HUBERT. Did they go out socially?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Not that I know of.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you seen Ryan since the assassination?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Where?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he came up to the club a couple of times and I saw him the day he left for California, at least that’s where he told me he was going.

Mr. HUBERT. When was that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It must have been around the first of December.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean it was right after Oswald was shot?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You haven’t seen him since?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you what business he had in California?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, he didn’t.

Mr. HUBERT. How many times after Oswald was shot do you suppose you saw Ryan in the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A couple of times, oh, two or three times.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he talk to you about Ruby and what had happened?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; no more than anybody else did. He said, everybody would always ask me, “What’s wrong with your boss?” And he said the same thing.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know a man by the name of Tommy, who used to go out with Joy Dale, kind of a boy friend of hers?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A baseball player?

Mr. HUBERT. I don’t know.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, there was a guy that used to bring her to work sometime, so she said, but I never saw him, and he came up and worked--handled the door sometimes for Jack, he did, and they would always sit down and talk together--he and Joy Dale.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, after Oswald was shot and you remained on, and Mr. Paul began to operate the club, did Mr. Paul get anybody to handle the front door?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Leo Torti handled the front door most of the time.

Mr. HUBERT. How old a man was he?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I take he was in his late forties.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he have a little gray in his hair?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. A little gray.

Mr. HUBERT. He handled the door?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He handled the door.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see him and this man Torti we are talking about sitting together?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; Tommy always sat close to the door.

Mr. HUBERT. He handled the door sometimes himself?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Sometimes; himself.

Mr. HUBERT. All right. I show you a picture that has been identified as Exhibit 5304-B and ask you if you can recognize the place that is pictured in there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Is it the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; it is not.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know any of the people who are pictured in that picture?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I sure don’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I will show you a group of photographs which have been identified as follows: “Dallas, Texas, April 14, 1964, Deposition of Andrew Armstrong, Exhibit 5305-A through 5305-S.”

All of these also bear an Exhibit No. 5225, April 10, 1964, deposition of C. L. Crafard, and I will ask you to look at them, starting with Exhibit A and see if you recognize what those pictures show?

Mr. ARMSTRONG [examining pictures referred to]. This picture here shows----

Mr. HUBERT. That’s the first one, and that is Exhibit 5305-A, is it not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It shows the back of a 10-cent notebook.

Mr. HUBERT. The back of whose notebook?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I can’t identify that because I don’t know--it could be anybody’s notebook.

Mr. HUBERT. It appears to you to be a 10-cent notebook, because it says “10 cents” on the front of it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see a book which had a back and front like that which appears in the picture, Exhibit 5305-A?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Where?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Lots of places.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see any at the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see any in Jack Ruby’s possession?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack Ruby have one that had a back and front like the one in the picture, Exhibit 5305-A?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. He did not?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You mean he did not, or you don’t know?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, he could have--I never saw it.

Mr. HUBERT. You never saw it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, would you look at the rest of those pictures, just taking them as they are and putting them face down, and see if you recognize any of the writings or names or anything else in those pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. This is Jack’s handwriting.

Mr. HUBERT. You recognize Jack’s handwriting--in which ones?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. In all of them that I have seen.

Mr. HUBERT. That’s in all of them that you have seen so far?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, at the time you made the remark that you recognized Jack’s handwriting, I think you were on the picture that is identified as Exhibit 5305-B. You had also looked at Exhibit 5305-C?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now I ask you to look at the whole bunch and tell us if they are in Jack’s handwriting or not?

(Mr. Armstrong examines instruments referred to.)

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you’ve gone through the whole series of photographs and, which are photographs of pages of books that have been identified as Exhibit 5305-A through Exhibit 5305-S, and I ask you if you can tell us whose handwriting is in those books?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It appears to me that it is Jack’s handwriting.

Mr. HUBERT. There’s a lot of it that is in print, isn’t there?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Especially the print.

Mr. HUBERT. His print--you recognize his prints?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. We both printed more than we wrote.

Mr. HUBERT. You have seen his print before?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. It’s your opinion that that is his print?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see the book before--the original of which these exhibits are pictures?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; he always had a little notebook, but it was one that opened--not to pull the page up, but opened just like a regular book, you know, a little small book about 2 inches by 1½ inches--just a very little small book.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, as you went through these pictures, Exhibits 5305-A through 5305-S, did you recognize any names or numbers or addresses?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I saw Little Lynn’s name there and I saw Tom Palmer’s name.

Mr. HUBERT. Tom who?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Tom Palmer.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is Tom Palmer?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He’s one of the union agents--he was the Dallas union agent for the AGVA.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize any other names?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I wasn’t looking at the names--just mostly handwriting.

Mr. HUBERT. Perhaps you had better go through and look at them with the names in mind and take them one by one and tell us any names you can recognize in anyway.

The first one is Exhibit 5305-A, and that’s the cover. No. 5305-B is the one--now, if you recognize anything, stop so that we can identify the exhibit number of the picture that you recognize.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I recognize the name “Vegas Club” on the top of that.

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about Exhibit 5305-D. Is there any significance to you other than that you recognize the name “Vegas Club” on that exhibit?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just that they have some figures there for tax, which is the usual procedure of putting them down--the usual way.

Mr. HUBERT. Just go on and if you have no recognition of any picture, just pass it without comment.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I recognize the print on this as excise tax for the Carousel Club.

Mr. HUBERT. What exhibit are you talking about--is that Exhibit 5305-H?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Any significance to that recognition other than you recognize this, sir?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I recognize what it means--I recognize the name Tom Palmer and his home phone number.

Mr. HUBERT. Your comment is directed to Exhibit 5305-H, is that correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I recognize the name Bro. Bear.

Mr. HUBERT. You are referring to Exhibit 5305-M, and you recognize a name on it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bro. Bear.

Mr. HUBERT. [Spelling.] “B-r-o. B-e-a-r” and underneath that is “Service” and then there is a telephone number--LA 8-1767.”

What do you recognize about that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Just the name Bro. Bear.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was he?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. He was an entertainer at the Vegas Club.

Mr. HUBERT. What kind of entertainment did he do?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I think he sings and he played some instrument--I don’t know which.

Mr. HUBERT. Was he ever at the Carousel?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. I see a name on that same Exhibit 5305-M, “Bertha Cheek,” do you recognize that name?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know of any person by that name?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. I also see on this same Exhibit No. 5305-M at the bottom of the page, Bob Litchfield [spelling] L-i-t-c-h-f-i-e-l-d.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. I have heard the name but I don’t know who it is.

Mr. HUBERT. Whose handwriting is that entry in?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Whose handwriting is that in--I’m not going to say that that’s Jack’s, because his handwriting--I can’t tell too much about that.

Mr. HUBERT. You can’t be sure that that’s Jack’s handwriting?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; not the writing, but the printing I could--if it was printing I could--the numbers look like it.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know who Bob Litchfield was?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Bob Litchfield; Bob Littlefield.

Mr. HUBERT. Littlefield; it is?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Oh, I’m sorry--I was reading it wrong--perhaps that is right, this says [spelling] L-i-c-h-f-i-e-l-d.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. That’s a magazine--let’s see--I don’t know. It was the “Around Town” magazine, I think it was the Littlefield “Around Town” magazine.

Mr. HUBERT. That was a man called Bob Littlefield?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And you read the name here at the bottom of the page as “Littlefield”. Let’s put it this way--you have already told us about a man named Bob Littlefield--what do you know about a man named Bob Lichfield here?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Nothing.

Mr. HUBERT. Nothing at all; you never heard of him?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Would it make any difference to you that he might have been known as Bill Lichfield?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t know a Bill Lichfield?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. All right; go on.

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I recognize the man--I recognize the name “Little Lynn.”

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about Exhibit 5305-S?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. And it has her phone number.

Mr. HUBERT. You say you recognize “Little Lynn,” you have already testified about her, I believe?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you two pictures that have been marked for identification as Exhibits 5306-A and 5306-B, each of which purports to be pictures of three memo slips, and ask you if you recognize them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I can’t.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whose handwriting they are in?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It doesn’t look like Jack’s handwriting.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recognize any names or telephone numbers on those memo slips?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. You have looked at all six of them?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you read the messages that each contained?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, yes; here’s one--I think----

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you are talking about the memo slip on the right-hand side of the pictures as you look at it, the picture having been identified as Exhibit 5306-B. Now, will you comment on that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. All right.

Mr. HUBERT. I had asked you whether the message meant anything to you. You seemed to indicate that the message on the picture I have described does indicate something to you, and now I ask you what does it indicate?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I’m sorry. I made a mistake--it doesn’t, but this one here, the one in the center, I think that’s Palmer--Tom Palmer.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you are referring to the middle slip on the picture identified as Exhibit 5306-A, and you say the message there you recognize; right?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. What makes you recognize it?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. The telephone number and the name.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, the memo slip that you are talking about, and I repeat for identification, that it is the middle memo slip on Exhibit No. 5306-A, apparently is addressed to Ruby because it has his name there, although one can see in the picture, can’t one, that there was a word that looks like somebody started to write “Armstrong” and then stopped--right--or something?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And the date is 11-14 at 3:40, and then there was printed “while you were out Pauline [spelling] P-a-u-l-i-n-e phoned, FE 7-5992.” It looks like.

And then there is a checkmark in the block “telephoned” and a checkmark in the block “please call” and the message is: “This one I couldn’t tell if she was colored or white,” is that correct?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you identified that with Palmer?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. It looked like it.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, if you were mistaken, say so?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; I was mistaken.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you have any recollection of that message now?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Was there any that you had any recognition about, any one of the six memo slips on the Exhibits 5306-A and 5306-B?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I will show you an exhibit that has been identified as Exhibit 5307-A. It is a picture of one slip of paper, and I ask you if you could identify that?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.