Chapter C: A. Fife, sworn with uplifted hand (10)

A. There were some few that left. There was not a full gathering of the command at the first start of it.

Q. Those that deserted you or left, was their conduct commendable?

A. I did not say it was.

Q. The conduct of those that remained was good as soldiers?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Had a great portion of your command seen service?

A. Well, yes; I think a good many of them--quite a large number of them had seen service.

Q. What experience had you in active military service during the last war, or any other war?

A. About nearly three years.

Q. Active service?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what capacity?

A. I was captain adjutant, major, lieutenant colonel.

Q. What regiment?

A. The One Hundred and Second and One Hundred and Fifth Pennsylvania.

Q. Heavy artillery?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you remain at the Union depot with your command?

A. Until about, I suppose, it was eleven o'clock.

Q. On Saturday night?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then what did you do?

A. I received messages from different persons who came there to see me. They stated to me that they thought I had better disband my command. That was on Saturday evening about eleven o'clock, I suppose.

Q. Will you name some of those persons?

A. No, I could not.

Q. Gave you gratuitous advice?

A. Yes; just talked to me.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were they citizens?

A. Yes; citizens and military besides.

Q. What military men?

A. Captain Macfarland was one military man that I remember distinctly.

Q. Was he under your command?

A. He was not out with his command.

Q. Any other military men?

A. I do not know, there was quite a number of persons there. We talked the matter over.

Q. Did you receive any orders from General Pearson, or from any of your superior officers?

A. No.

Q. You took the responsibility of disbanding them without orders from your superiors?

A. Yes.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You considered yourself supreme in command at that time?

A. Yes; I considered I was in command of all the troops that were there.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Why did you think it was best to disband your troops at that time--what reasons?

A. We did not have enough to compete with the crowd that was surrounding us--that was about the whole thing.

Q. Was that all the reason that was given?

A. That we were not sufficient.

Q. Not able to compete with the crowd?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And therefore you should disband entirely?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You said you considered yourself superior in command at that time?

A. Of the post where I was.

Q. Where was General Pearson?

A. That I could not tell you.

Q. Had you any communication with him?

A. I heard that General Pearson had left.

Q. You heard he had left?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did you receive the last communication from him?

A. The last communication I received from him was at the Union depot when I went in there--noon sometime, or near two o'clock.

Q. Where was Adjutant General Latta at that time?

A. I suppose he was at the Union depot hotel.

Q. At what time?

A. At all this time I suppose he was there.

Q. Eleven o'clock Saturday night?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you receive any communication or order from him?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you send for any?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you understand that he was acting commander-in-chief of the forces?

A. I only understood he was acting adjutant general, and that the orders emanated from him as from some higher authority.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you know at that time that the adjutant general was in the Union depot?

A. I had an impression that he was.

Q. Did you make any effort before you disbanded to see him?

A. No, sir.

Q. Knowing him to be there, or believing him to be there?

A. No, sir; I did not make any effort to see him. At this time I suppose that the mob was gathered in such great crowds it would be advisable for the military to be out of the road of the mob so as not to get their ill will.

Q. In your military experience, in your judgment, could you have taken a position and intrenched yourself and held your ground against the mob during the night?

A. Oh, no.

Q. Nowhere in the vicinity?

A. No, sir; unless I had been in the round-house.

Q. Could you not have marched out away from there and held your body?

A. They would have suffered great loss to have marched away.

Q. You did march to the depot, did you not, the Union depot?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Were you interfered with in any way?

A. No, sir; not much.

Q. Marched all the way down the track?

A. Yes, sir. It would not have been advisable to march down the street.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Could you have taken a position in the Union depot, and used it as a fortification to defend yourself against the mob?

A. There was no mob at the Union depot.

Q. Why could you not have held the position then?

A. At the Union depot, the idea was to get away so as we would not get the ill will of these men; that they would probably disperse at this time.

Q. Did I understand you, that you disbanded for fear of exasperating the mob?

A. Yes--with this number of troops that I had.

Q. Was it your opinion that that was the way to disperse the mob, by the military disbanding?

A. I thought it was probably the best way.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you receive any order from. General Pearson, after the firing at Twenty-eighth street?

A. I received one order.

Q. What was that?

A. For to adjourn these two regiments to this depot.

Q. The transfer depot?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you to take your regiments to the transfer depot?

A. Yes, sir. The colonels of the regiments had already received the orders sometime previous, and they did not want to move until they saw me, and they showed me the order.

Q. In that order, did he tell you to hold your position?

A. As long as possible, I believe.

Q. To take your regiments to the transfer depot, and to hold that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And at eleven o'clock you marched down?

A. We marched down as a command down there.

Q. You disbanded at the transfer depot?

A. We disbanded, and the men got away the best they could.

Q. Left the transfer depot?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Were these orders addressed to you, or to the colonel?

A. Addressed to me, and the orders addressed to the colonels of the regiments, too.

Q. Of the same purport?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you consider that they had superceded you by the order?

A. I did not know what was the matter.

Q. Did it not look to you like it?

A. Yes; it did look to me very strange for them to receive a written order.

Q. You, as a military man, of course, felt aggrieved at that?

A. No, sir. I said that they could obey the order cheerfully, and I marched down to the depot with them.

Q. You did not consider that under your order?

A. Things were mixed up so I did not know.

Q. Which way which?

A. Which way which, and I obeyed the order. Afterwards I received this order.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Received by the same order?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you left the transfer depot, did your men go in a body, together, or did they strike out?

A. Each came away by himself.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were you called--did you call your men together after that?

A. Yes; we did on Monday morning, and I reported to the mayor whatever he wished me to do. I took one company up on Second avenue, and dispersed a crowd that were coming here on boats in large crowds. There must have been towards three hundred.

Q. How long did you remain in service?

A. I remained in service then half a month, or three weeks. On Wednesday night Governor Hartranft passed through here, and he gave me an order to assume command of the troops here, and I did so. I went over to the Union depot in Allegheny, and I had them turn over the property to me at the Fort Wayne road.

Q. Maintained order there, did you?

A. I had no troops there. I only went over as a citizen, and I put on my citizen's clothes, and went over there and talked to them. The second--I believe they turned over their property to me. I called out Mr. Cassatt, I think--not Mr. Cassatt, but the agent of the Fort Wayne road.

Q. Pitcairn?

A. Not Pitcairn. The agent of the Fort Wayne road--I forget his name now. I told him the cars and property were there, and he could do as he pleased with them. That the crowd had given them to me. That I turned them over to him.

Q. There was no further trouble here about the city?

A. No, sir; there was no further trouble.

* * * * *

Henry King being duly _affirmed_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where is your residence?

A. In Allegheny City.

Q. And what is your business?

A. Furnace man, engaged in the manufacture of pig iron, interested in the manufacture of pig iron.

Q. I wish you would state, Mr. King, all the facts in relation to the riot here, that came under your observation--that you know personally yourself?

A. On this side of the river I do not know so much about what was going on. I was over here, of course, every day attending to my business, and I got glimpses of this matter once in a while. I think probably that I had better first state as to the origin. I think that is what my testimony probably would have the most weight in.

Q. That is what we called you to find out about?

A. At one time, from 1849 to 1855, I was engaged in railroading. First as a civil engineer; next as a mechanical engineer; and had made acquaintance of many railroad men--pretty extended--a great many were of the men who are railroading at the present day, and were railroading previous to this strike and during the strike, and for a length of time previous to the strike were men I was acquainted with, and I, perhaps, knew as much about their grievances as they did themselves, or what they considered their grievances. They talked to me very freely, most of them, and I told several of my acquaintances in the city here that I thought there would be a great deal of trouble amongst railroad men; that there seemed to me to be a great deal of dissatisfaction.

Q. When was that?

A. This was in the early part of last summer, commencing in May perhaps. These men talked to me a great deal. I traveled a great deal on the railroad, and these men talked freely to me. I felt pretty confident from what they told me that there would be a great deal of trouble; there appeared to be a great amount of dissatisfaction.

Q. You communicated that to your acquaintances in the city?

A. Yes; my business connections.

Q. Business men?

A. Yes; business men. Some believed and some didn't believe, of course. I felt very confident there would be a great deal of trouble, and was satisfied, too, that it was not going to be a local matter, but would be very general, and it proved so.

Q. On what did you base your opinion, if anything?

A. As to whether it would be general?

Q. Yes?

A. From the manner in which these men spoke about what they considered grievances. I didn't wholly agree with them on that.

Q. What did they consider as their grievances?

A. Reduction of pay; that seemed to be the chief complaint.

Q. They complained of the reduction?

A. Complained very bitterly about that.

Q. Did you talk with the men on different roads--did you converse with men on different roads?

A. Yes; on several different roads.

Q. What roads?

A. There were some on the Pennsylvania railroad; some on the Pittsburgh and Fort Wayne road; some on the Cleveland and Pittsburgh run, and also some men on the Atlantic and Great Western road.

Q. Did you ever converse with any of the employés on the Baltimore and Ohio road?

A. No, sir; I had no acquaintances amongst these men. That is a road I travel on very little. Didn't go out of my way to hunt up any information; it all came to me incidentally.

Q. Were all these roads reducing the wages of their employés?

A. It was so reported to me--it was so talked among the men.

Q. How was it throughout the country? Did you know, of your own knowledge, that the leading railroads throughout the whole country were reducing the wages of the employés?

A. Speaking of it in a general way, I have no authority, except newspaper account, that wages were being very generally reduced.

Q. Speaking then of your own knowledge, you simply speak of roads leading in and out of Pittsburgh?

A. My knowledge in this particular is from the employés of the road.

Q. And your conversation was with the employés of the roads leading in and out of Pittsburgh?

A. Mostly roads leading in and out of Pittsburgh. I may say wholly so, with the exception of the Atlantic and Great Western.

Q. In conversation with these men did they mention, or did you find out from them, that there was any organization among them?

A. Oh! yes; I knew of an organization--the Trainmen's Union--I knew there was such an organization as that.

Q. As the Trainmen's Union?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you know the object and purpose of that organization?

A. Yes; they talked to me that there were several objects they wished to accomplish by that organization. We had a great many discussions about the thing. The only object they had, of course, was to make an organization that they thought would be sufficiently strong to enable them to have something to say about the rate of pay. Another was to re-instate some men who had been discharge for cause.

Q. Did you gather from these conversations that their object was to force the railroads to pay them the wages which they demanded?

A. They expected to put it to that as a finality. They expected to resort to that before giving it up.

Q. Did you talk with them--did they state to you how they intended to force the railroad?

A. Well, by stopping work and stopping business.

Q. Themselves only?

A. They talked about it, that they would stop themselves, and they would stop others. Of course, I expressed my opinions. Everybody said what they pleased. I told them it was every persons right to stop work. If the work did not suit them they had a perfect right to quit, and to go off; but whatever they did, not to do anything they would be sorry for afterwards, because the matter would be settled, undoubtedly, sooner or later, and they had better not do anything they would afterwards have cause to regret. As I said before, they would have a perfect right to stop work, but they had no right to interfere with others.

Q. Did they claim that they had the right to interfere with others?

A. They did not claim they had a right, but they claimed the ability to do that.

Q. And their purpose of doing it?

A. Well, they expected to do that.

Q. Did they say anything to you or did they expect to ally other classes of laboring men with them?

A. No; they did not care about having any help from outside parties; at least if they did, there was no intimation of that kind to me. They expected to accomplish it themselves. I have no knowledge of their making any effort whatever to induce other trades unions--I do not know that they made any effort to have others coöperate with them; if they did, I do not know of it.

Q. This intercourse you had with the men, and from talking, led you to be apprehensive of the results?

A. Yes; I felt very confident----

Q. Did you communicate that very freely to your acquaintances here?

A. With my more intimate business acquaintances the matter was talked over pretty freely.

Q. Did you have any communication with the railroad officials in regard to it?

A. No; I supposed them capable of taking care of their own business. I fortified myself in regard to the strike. I have occasion to have a great deal of freight moved, and I put myself in a condition against any strike.

Q. In what way?

A. In getting in a good supply. If the strike had continued a month it would not have hurt me, anything more than I could not have shipped anything away. I had plenty of raw material on hand--it answered a very good purpose, too.

Q. Did you communicate these facts and your apprehensions to the city officials, any of them, of Pittsburgh?

A. No, sir.

Q. Or the county officials?

A. No, sir; I only talked with parties who were interested in the same manner that I am myself and others, perhaps, I am well acquainted with, in the same line of business, by fortifying in the way of getting in plenty of raw material. I was so certain it would come to pass, that I advised it all the time.

Q. Did you gather facts enough to enable you to determine when this strike would probably take place?

A. Yes; I had a very good idea when it would come. I do not know that I could see that my idea was so clear upon that, that I could fix the hour or perhaps the day, but I think I could have named a time of ten days that it would have occurred within that time. I could have done that, perhaps, twenty days before the strike occurred.

Q. Did you, in any conversation with these railroad men, have any talk with them about the wages they were receiving, and whether it was adequate for their support?

A. Yes; that was talked about considerably.

Q. In the business that you are engaged in you employed a large number of laborers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did their wages compare with the wages of your men?

A. If they had steady employment--if they had been employed each and every day--the wages they had would have been sufficient, and would have compared very favorably with the employment in other lines of business--in other departments. As I looked upon it, the prime cause of the trouble was that there were more men than there was work for, and they undertook to make a little work divide around amongst a great many men, and that, of course, made a small amount of pay for each one. In many other businesses, an employer so situated would have--I know I should have discharged my men down until I had full employment for those that were retained.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. From that I would infer that it was not the pay, but it was the time they were making?

A. They did not make enough time.

Q. Had they made full time they would have made ample pay?

A. Perhaps satisfactory.

By Mr. Englebert:

Q. Has not that been the case in all business for the last year?

A. I think that some employers have made the same mistake as the railroad men. It was out of the goodness of their hearts that they kept men about that they had not employment for. I would either give them work or not give them work.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. In your opinion, it is bad policy to keep men working on half time?

A. It is very bad policy.

Q. That was the policy adopted by the railroad company?

A. It seems to have been.

By Mr. Means:

Q. I simply want to know this: Did the railroad officials believe that half a loaf was better than no bread?

A. I have heard them talk that way. I think the railroad officials took that view.

Q. That half a loaf was better than no bread?

A. Yes, sir; but as opinions are going, I would say, a man had better go and try to make a whole loaf somewhere else, than hang around and make a half loaf.

Q. Suppose he could not get the work?

A. There is a way where there is a will. I never kept a man half employed.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you visit the scene of the riot at any time during its progress?

A. Yes, sir; Sunday I was up in that part of the city. I did not go up to where it was said to be the worst, but far enough to see all that I cared about seeing.

Q. What class of men were engaged in the actual burning and pillage so far as----

A. So far as I observed, and judging by appearance, it was about the class of men you see going backwards and forwards on the railroads and thoroughfares, known as tramps.

Q. Did you see any of the railroad employés with whom you had conversations before and were acquainted?

A. I saw some there; yes, sir. They appeared to be lookers-on only.

Q. Not engaged in the actual arson and riot?

A. No, sir; I did not see one of them that had anything except what appeared to belong to him.

Q. Were any engaged in burning and setting afire?

A. Not that I saw--none that I had any acquaintance with.

Q. Did you meet any of them to have conversation with them on that day?

A. Yes; Sunday I saw a great many of them.

Q. How did they talk then?

A. They appeared to regret very much that there was any destruction of property.

Q. Have you talked with them since any?

A. Yes: I talked--I believe three days out of six I am more or less on the railroads, and acquainted with a great many railroad men. It has pretty much ceased to be the subject of conversation now, but for a time afterwards it was the principal topic.

Q. Did you ascertain from them, or from any reliable source, whether they had anything to do with the attack that was made on the Philadelphia troops at Twenty-eighth street on Sunday, when the firing took place?

A. I have never seen any of them that acknowledged having anything to do with making that attack on the troops. They spoke of it as the attack having been made by--well, tramps and roughs they called them. There was a pretty strong organization among the men on the north side of the river to prevent any force coming over to shoot the Pennsylvania boys, or, as they termed them, P.R.R. boys. That is the way they talked about it. They did not propose to have anybody coming in there to shoot them down. That was a pretty thoroughly organized force.

Q. That is, to stop the trains having troops in?

A. Yes; and they were expected in with troops. That occurred in the immediate neighborhood where I live. The whole region was patrolled.

Q. Patrolled by the railroad men?

A. By the railroad men; yes, sir.

Q. Did you learn from these men where the first strike was to be made?

A. No. They talked of it as though it would be a general uprising throughout the whole country. They did not designate any particular place.

Q. You did not get the particulars?

A. I never heard the particular place designated as to how it would start, but simply it would be a strike; that they would all quit work; not work themselves nor allow others to work, and block travel and traffic in that way, expecting as the result it would bring the managers of railroads to their terms.

Q. You travel on the roads a great deal you say, and have a great deal of shipping?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. From your knowledge was there a less amount of work to be done on the railroads by the men than there had been formerly?

A. There appeared to be a very decided falling off in through traffic; the local traffic is holding its own, perhaps; furnace work and mineral traffic appeared to be about the same as it had been.

Q. It was in the through traffic that there was a falling off?

A. Principally in the through traffic.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Who was in command of this armed force you speak of that was on the other side of the river?

A. I never heard the commander's name mentioned. Those men whom I met in the street in my neighborhood said that their commander says so and so, and requested citizens to keep away--that the trains were about due--that the commander says so and so. I do not know who the commander was.

Q. They had apparently an organization?

A. They had apparently an organization, and obeyed instructions, perhaps, as well as the soldiers on this side.

Q. What train had that reference to?

A. The Erie train.

Q. With troops?

A. The train that was expected to arrive with troops.

Q. What steps did this armed force take to prevent trains from coming from Erie to assist the military?

A. The plan that they had proposed was to give the signal to that train and stop it.

Q. But if that was not heeded?

A. They had a rifle pit shortly above there, and if the train had not heeded the signals they would have undoubtedly fired into it.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was the man who was called Boss Ammon--was he in command of that force?

A. I did not hear Ammon's name mentioned in connection with the matter to any extent until the day following. I know that Ammon was not installed in the dispatcher's office on that side until the Sunday. This attempt to stop the Erie train was on Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon Ammon was installed as head man in the dispatcher's office. I did not hear that name. I have no recollection of hearing his name mentioned in connection with the matter at all, until some time during the forenoon of Sunday. I had heard of a man of that name; but did not know he was in this part of the country at all. I did not know who their commander was Saturday night. The name was not mentioned, except as I spoke of, as our commander says so and so, and requested people to keep out of the way in a certain locality in the immediate vicinity of the station.

Q. What time did that organization first show itself in Allegheny to stop trains with troops?

A. That was on Saturday night.

Q. When was the first freight train stopped?

A. Friday; I think it was Friday morning.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Did you see any trenches dug along the road?

A. Strawberry lane; yes, sir.

Q. What was the object of that?

A. To intercept the Erie train in the event of their disobeying the signal.

Q. Were they along the road, or across the road?

A. Parallel with the road.

Q. Where is Strawberry lane?

A. It is in the Ninth ward of Allegheny City--one of the lower wards.

Q. Who put in the rifle pits?

A. The railroaders--strikers.

Q. This mob?

A. It did not partake of the nature of a mob over there. It was a very thoroughly organized force--armed and equipped.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How many railroad men did you converse with, do you think, that led you to form your conclusions?

A. On the different roads, perhaps fifty men.

Q. What class of men principally?

A. They were conductors and engineers, chiefly, I talked with.

Q. Any brakemen?

A. With many brakemen.

Q. Fifty men on the different roads that you have mentioned before--you mentioned the roads?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did that restlessness begin to show itself among the men?

A. Began to manifest itself in the latter part of May.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. The persons that dug that trench, were they Allegheny railroad men or were they tramps? What do you suppose they were?

A. Most of them were railroad men. There did not seem to be many tramps connected with those men over there. These men were acting on their own account, and did not ask anybody to help them. They said they were working for the right, and appeared to be very earnest. They were very orderly.

Q. Things were done systematically?

A. Things were done very systematically.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Were these men in the employ of the railroad company or were they discharged men?

A. There were a few discharged men. Of course I do not know how many of them were discharged, but from their talk I got the impression that there were some six or eight that had been discharged.

Q. That was a part of the grievances?

A. Yes; that was the object--to have them re-instated. They made that one of the conditions--of those men going to work again. I was amongst these men a great deal during the time that they were discharging them and reducing the work. I was very desirous that they should go to work, for as long as they were not at work it brought a class of people in our part of the city that I did not want to have around there. I knew if they went to work, and the trains were moved--I talked with them whenever I could--they would all gather about me.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. You say you thought you could have named within ten days of when the strike would take place. Did you hear anything about the proposed strike of the 27th of June that was talked about by the Trainmen's Union?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You heard them talk about that?

A. I heard them talk about that.

Q. Did you hear the railroad men fix that time or talk about that time as there would likely be a strike?

A. There seemed to be a difference of opinion in their views as to that being the right time. They would talk of it in that way--some thought it would be a good time, and others did not.

Q. Did you ever hear them name any special day, or any particular time when there would likely be a strike, or when there would probably be a strike?

A. After the 27th of June they felt pretty certain that it would be sometime not far from the middle of July. They talked like this. They wanted the money for the work that had been done during the month of June before they struck. If they had their money in their pocket it would be fortifying themselves.

Q. What time was the pay day of the railroad company?

A. I believe the usual pay day--of course it varies along the line of the road--I think on most of the roads they commence paying sometime from the seventh to the tenth, and go along various places until they get paid.

Q. You supposed from that that probably if the strike occurred it would probably occur pretty soon after they got their pay?

A. As soon as the men along the line of the road had been paid off.

Q. Was there anything done by the railroad men on your side of the river that you know of towards organizing for the strike, or committing any overt act until after the strike occurred here?

A. I think the trains had been moving regularly up to that time.

Q. It did not really break out there--no overt act was done nor any trains prevented from going out until the Saturday after the Thursday it broke out on this side?

A. It broke out here on Thursday, and I think the first there was Friday morning.

Q. Were you talking or did you talk on this Thursday or Friday with those classes of railroad men you had previously had conversation with, in regard to what was going on?

A. On Friday I had some talk. I went out on a train that leaves here at nine o'clock in the morning, on the Fort Wayne road, and had considerable talk with some of the freight train conductors.

Q. What did they say about the difficulties that had occurred here?

A. There is a schedule of quite a number of freights following immediately after that passenger train, and of course they talked about the strike being in fact over here, and talked with some of the men at the station before the train left there. I was on the lookout to see whether the trains were moving out, and the trains appeared to be ready to go out. When I got some thirty-five or forty miles up the road, the conductor on the train I was on told me that the freights that would follow immediately after the nine o'clock train, had been intercepted, and that the strike had organized.

Q. As this strike finally did take place, there was no general understanding on all the roads that it should take place on each railroad on a certain day, that you found out. It did not actually take place on the different roads on the same day?

A. No; I do not think the strike became general throughout the country until, perhaps, three--it may have been four--days after its first commencement. The first general demonstration was on the Baltimore and Ohio road.

Q. You heard nothing in any of these conversations of any fixed day after the 27th of June--any date named?

A. As I said early in my testimony here, I do not know that I could fix the hour or the day, but I think I could have named the time within ten days, from the information I had in talking with the various employés, and that was, to wait until the payments had been pretty generally made on all the roads throughout the country--that seemed to be the time.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did the railroad strikers in Allegheny City, on the Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, show any disposition to destroy property or commit any violence or illegal acts except stopping the trains?

A. No, sir; there was a great effort made upon their part to preserve all property--railroad property and private property.

Q. They made efforts to prevent the destruction of property?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Private property and railroad property?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what way or what efforts did they make?

A. On Sunday afternoon the report became current over there that these destructionists--I do not know what else to call them--were coming to Allegheny, and the railroad men talked amongst themselves like this: That this is the employment we are living on, and it shall not be destroyed; we will take care of it. The trade of the road is such there that from the upper end, or what is known as the outer depot, cars and locomotives and everything--I suppose they run twenty miles up--laying on the tracks, and within a very brief space of time there was some fourteen or fifteen miles of locomotives taken entirely out.

Q. By the strikers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. To protect them?

A. Yes; and they did protect them most effectually. Many of those cars were loaded with very valuable merchandise, and there was an armed force of these strikers who protected these cars--regularly stood guard over them--fourteen or fifteen miles of cars--every day and every night, relieved regularly.

Q. Did you see them or any of them commit any illegal acts--railroad men?

A. I suppose that would have been an illegal--would have been considered an illegal act to stop that train.

Q. Didn't they stop other trains--freight trains?

A. The regular trains were stopped.

Q. Forcibly?

A. Not forcibly. They seemed to be stopped at the dispatcher's office. If they got a permit they would allow them to pass. If a train went out with a permit they would not trouble it.

Q. Did they take forcible possession of the dispatcher's office?

A. I do not know whether it was forcible or not, they seemed to have possession of it.

Q. Did they use any violence towards men that were willing to run trains?

A. I did not hear of an instance of intimidation.

Q. Do you know of any effort being made to have trainmen take out trains?

A. I do not think there was any effort made. They appeared to be all of one mind about that.

Q. Did the strikers say they would prevent them from going out by violence?

A. I think I heard some talk that would amount to about that. Passenger trains were allowed to come and go as they had done before. A good many of the passenger trains stopped at the dispatcher's office to get a permit that would enable them to pass other localities where the strikers were congregated.

Q. That would be called, in railroad parlance, orders?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was the dispatcher during the riots there?

A. Ammon was known as dispatcher.

Q. He took possession of the dispatcher's office?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was he the man that issued these orders?

A. I think the orders were signed with his name. I never saw any of the orders. I heard the passenger train conductor speaking of them.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. He was general superintendent and dispatcher both?

A. Yes; he seemed to be the principal man on that side. I have thought of that matter frequently since then, and it appeared to me that it was a fortunate circumstance that these men were willing to recognize some man as a head, if they had not done that matters would have been worse than they were.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Did the mayor of Allegheny City send a relief guard?

A. I heard that he did. I do not know that I ever saw it.

Q. You do not know that as a fact?

A. No, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Was not the force that he organized in other parts of Allegheny City at the bridges?

A. I suppose that is where his force was employed chiefly.

Q. Was there a general disposition manifested on the part of the citizens to quiet the troubles?

A. Yes; all the talk was with a view to get to work again.

Q. I am speaking of the citizens?

A. All the citizens desired to have these men go to work, so far as I talked with any of them.

* * * * *

Colonel P. N. Guthrie, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I reside at East Liberty, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business at the present time?

A. I am a book-keeper in the Exchange National Bank.

Q. How long have you held that position?

A. About twelve years.

Q. Are you a member of the National Guard?

A. I am Colonel of the Eighteenth regiment.

Q. How long have you held that position?

A. Since 1874. I think my commission dates 1874.

Q. Just state to us now what orders you received, and when you first received them, and from whom, in relation to the riot last summer?

A. Well, on Friday morning, about half past four o'clock, I was awakened by a knock, and received an order, a telegraphic order, from General Pearson, informing me that by orders of the Governor, my regiment was ordered out for service, and ordered me to report at seven o'clock, at the Union Depot hotel. I have one company whose head-quarters is at East Liberty, where I reside, some five miles out. I notified them by hunting up the captain, and then came into town, sent off, the best way I knew how, to get my officers together, and notified them. They notified their subordinate officers, and assembled the regiment. It was too late to get any orders in the newspapers, they had all gone to press. It was too early to find messengers, and the work had to be all done by carrying messages from man to man, by the corporals and sergeants of companies. My command was ready at half past eleven o'clock, and by a little after twelve I was at the Union Depot hotel.

Q. With how many men?

A. I had then about two hundred and twenty-five men.

Q. How many men have you in all the regiment?

A. I have about three hundred and twenty-six uniformed men. Well, the regiment was formed in my armory. There was present, Major General Pearson, commanding the division, and the sheriff of the county. When I deemed that I had sufficient men for service, I marched down to the Union Depot hotel, accompanied by the sheriff. At that time I thought that my regiment was the only regiment ordered into service, and had the direction of military affairs, and so far as my regiment was concerned was with me. I had my own ideas what should be done, but when I got to the Union Depot hotel, Major General Pearson had ordered out the division, which made me a subordinate officer. My regiment was then ordered out to the stock-yards, five miles and a half from here, where I remained until Sunday night on duty.

Q. What time did you arrive at the stock-yards?

A. Torrens station--that is the stock-yards. I arrived there about half past one o'clock. We remained at the Union Depot hotel, waiting there for a consultation between General Pearson, the railroad officials, and myself, as to what was the best course to be pursued. My regiment was finally ordered out to the stock-yards, with the understanding that the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments would soon report, and they be sent to Twenty-eighth street. Upon their arrival at Twenty-eighth street, trains were immediately to be started. Sending me to the stock-yards was to secure the passage of trains through and beyond the stock-yards.

Q. That was the result of your consultation there at the depot?

A. That was the result of the decision of Major General Pearson. My opinion was that I should go to Twenty-eighth street, and the Fourteenth and Nineteenth go to the stock-yards. I believe no interference with the trains had been made at the stock-yards, and up to that time. If there had been, I don't know it, and there certainly had been interference at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. You desired to stop at Twenty-eighth street?

A. I desired to stop at Twenty-eighth street. I could have taken possession there without any trouble, I think, at that time.

Q. In going out to Torrens, were you interfered with on the route?

A. Not at all. There were about two hundred or three hundred men at Twenty-eighth street--I guess twelve hundred or thirteen hundred when I got there.

Q. You went out on the train, did you?

A. Went out on the train.

Q. Did you have any trouble or meet with any resistance in disembarking your command?

A. I had one company at East Liberty that I had ordered at once to Torrens station, and they had taken possession of the platforms there, and we disembarked from the cars without any trouble whatever, or any demonstration of any kind--not even noise. Everything was quiet and still.

At this point the committee adjourned until three o'clock, this afternoon.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

PITTSBURGH, _Thursday, February 21, 1878_.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at three o'clock, P.M. Mr. Lindsey in the chair, and continued the taking of testimony. All members present except Senator Reyburn.

* * * * *

Colonel P. N. Guthrie, resumed:

Q. When we adjourned you had got at Torrens station. I wish you would state to us how large a crowd you found there, what the appearance of the crowd was, and so on, and give your movements from that time?

A. When I got to Torrens station I found at least twelve hundred men there, composed of strikers, and the crowd and mob--not a mob--lookers on. I had no trouble in getting into position, no trouble of any kind. Was not greeted with hisses, noise, or demonstration of any kind whatever. As soon as I got my command in the position I wanted them in, I brought them to a rest. Then I went around on the tracks to see what the condition of affairs was. I found, as I stated before, that the mob contained two elements there--strikers and lookers on. I sent for the man who was represented to me to be a leader among the strikers, had him brought down to my position, and had a long conversation with him. I informed him that I had been sent out there with orders from General Pearson to see that all trains passed through the stock-yards. It was my duty to keep the tracks clear, and keep the crowd from interfering with the passage of trains, &c. I didn't want to have any trouble or any disturbance of any kind; but the moment a train approached there it was going to go through. He told me that the strikers had no intention, no disposition to interfere with the passage of the trains, that the Pennsylvania railroad might send all the trains through they had got. He said they could not send any through because they could not get the men to man them; but if they could, they could send them through; they didn't intend to interfere. I told him I was glad to hear that, that it would probably make things a great deal easier, because if the crowd interfered outside of the strikers a man would have less hesitation in dealing with them. This conversation with this leader of the strikers occurred immediately after I got there, as soon as I got my command into a position and gave the command rest. Almost immediately after, and during my conversation with this man, a train came up to the stock-yards from Pittsburgh. That was a freight train or a passenger train--I have forgotten. I did not probably look at that time; but I think it was a freight train; but that train was loaded down with roughs on the cars, and platforms of the cars, the engine, cow-catcher, and every available space. I think the train was crowded with the most infernal lot of scoundrels that a man ever saw. I do not think that they were strikers entirely, though. There were a great many men from Pittsburgh that I recognized; but there was a large element on that train I could not account for at all. They became very noisy and offensive. All of them got off that train and crowded on to any trains that were stationary there--cars standing on the track, which brought them within a very few feet of my regiment. Their remarks became so offensive to me that I was afraid that if it was allowed to continue it might bring about trouble. I had the bayonets fixed on my guns, and I charged bayonets on this crowd. They broke and fled away, and got some distance off. In the interval I formed my men in another position more satisfactory to me--got them on the street, and in what we call column of companies. Before, I was in line of battle. I remained in that position for some time. I would say here that the understanding between General Pearson and myself, when I went to the stock-yards, was that the trains would be sent out immediately. I urged it upon General Pearson. I believed it was the best thing then, and I believe so now, that a train should have been started, that if one train could have got through, all the rest would have followed, and even one train would have broken the force of the strike; but I waited and waited and waited in position there until the men could stand it no longer. The crowd three times during my stay at the stock-yards annoyed me, and crowded close on my lines, and became somewhat demonstrative, so much so that I was afraid to allow the thing to continue, and I charged bayonets. Every time I charged bayonets the crowd dispersed, and twice I loaded the guns in the presence of the mob, and the moment the guns were loaded the crowd fled and dispersed; but would return almost immediately after. As soon as the crowd would go away from my front I would take the cartridges out of the guns to prevent the men from recklessly firing and bringing about any conflict between the troops and the crowd. That continued time after time during my whole stay at the stock-yards. These men were easily driven away by me. At any appearance I would make of a disposition to fire upon them or use force against them, the mob would disperse--the crowd would disperse, because it was hardly a mob. I could not see that they were armed at all. If they were armed they had pistols--they had no guns of any kind.

Q. Had they thrown any missiles?