Chapter D: L. Reynolds, sworn (1)

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. D. Leach Reynolds.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. At the time of this trouble I resided in the Twelfth ward, on Thirtieth street.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I was conductor on the road at that time.

Q. Do you know anything of the causes leading to this strike?

A. Yes, sir; the more important cause of it was the abuse of the men by the petted officials, such as despatchers, and so forth, and the double-headers.

Q. What do you mean by the petted parties?

A. It is just this way: They have a set of men that are posted, not only in Pittsburgh, but at the principal stations, whose duty it is to give the conductors orders, what they shall do with the cars, what cars they shall set off and take on, and they can either give a man a nice train or a train where there is no work to do, or they can give all the work to one man--one man they give all the work to do, and one man they let go behind with nothing to do. It caused a great deal of dissatisfaction, and a great deal of growling. As sure as a man did any growling, that man would be discharged the next trip.

Q. Are you employed by the railroad now?

A. No, sir; I left the road on the 16th August.

Q. Were you present on Saturday, the time the troops came in collision with the crowd?

A. I was.

Q. State what you saw?

A. I went up there about half-past one or two o'clock in the afternoon, and saw the crowd that was standing on Twenty-eighth street, and didn't like the looks of it. There was some rather rough characters there. I do not know who they were, and where they belonged. I then took up a position in the hospital grounds, about one hundred yards from the track, one side of a tree that stands by the fence, so that I could fully see and observe all that was going on. The report was that they were going to send a train out, with lots of militia, and General Pearson on the cow-catcher. I was waiting to see if the train succeeded in getting through the crowd. The Philadelphia troops, as I was going up Twenty-eighth street, came in. I believe the second section was coming in at the time I was going up. I remained up there, I presume, all of two hours before the Philadelphia troops came up the track. I was looking in so many different directions that I could not tell you whether General Pearson and Pitcairn, and the sheriff, was in front of the soldiers or not. I saw the entire body of them as they came up. I do not remember of any persons or citizens of the Commonwealth in front of the militia when they came up and formed their hollow square. Then I saw Mr. Pitcairn plainly, and, also, General Pearson. Sheriff Fife I did not see. At the time they formed their hollow square, they threw out a platoon, as has been described, but across the front end of the square. That platoon undertook to chase the crowd back off the railroad tracks, off Twenty-eighth street. They refused to go back, and, of course, that is where the riots began. The soldiers tried to drive them back by shoving them back with their breasts. They refused to be pushed back. Then they undertook to charge them back with their bayonets. After that they fell back a step or two, and I heard the order to fire, and they did fire with good effect. About that time I took up over the hill, and came down the other way, a few minutes after the fire. I presume I was about fifty feet from the front end of the soldiers. They were then moving around somewhat, and I asked one of the railroad boys if he had seen any of our boys fall. He said there was three or four. I asked him if any of the soldiers were killed. About that time there was a gun went off--I think it went off in the air--and just then I seen one of the conductors coming down with his arm resting on his coat. He had taken his coat off, and I went over to and asked him how bad he was hurt. He said his arm was weak, so that he could not hold it up. I assisted him down to Penn street, and put him in a grocer's wagon, and took him to Doctor Clark's, and went to my own house and told my wife I was not hurt. I didn't find her there, I found her on Penn street. I put her in a baker shop, and then went off to look for some more friends. About this time they threw the platoon of soldiers across Twenty-eighth street, and I supposed they were going to fire, and I got into a hotel where I heard there was some wounded, to hear who they were. There had been some there, but they had been removed. I afterwards saw them bringing down an old gentleman, Mr. Stockel. I went home that evening, got my supper and remained at home until, I presume, it was three o'clock. Then I took my wife and started down to see. At Twenty-eighth street the crowd had got so dense that I went into a drug store, and while I was in there, a whole party went by, with a drum beating in front of them. They were whooping and hollering. I don't remember that there was any firearms in the party, but I know they had a big drum, and were pounding on that. As soon as they got by, I says, I will take my wife home. I took her home, and after I got there, the neighbors and her together persuaded me to remain there, and the consequence was I didn't go away from my own door stoop that evening. I went to bed, I presume it was about half past nine o'clock, and on Sunday morning, I presume about two or three o'clock, she tried to awaken me to tell me the Pennsylvania railroad property was on fire, but she could not get me awake, and later in the morning, when the Philadelphia soldiers were going up Penn street, they formed a platoon in front of my house. I started out to hear where they had gone to, and found out that they were gone up the street.

Q. Did you see anybody fire on them?

A. No, sir; I didn't.

Q. Was there any talk of resisting these soldiers in clearing the track, and preventing them from running trains?

A. You might hear men talking of a great many things, but nobody could imagine what they were going to do. Nobody had any firearms to resist anything with. They were asking the question, that there were one thousand five hundred Philadelphia soldiers coming, and what are you going to do with them?

Q. The crowd resisted the soldiers, did they, when they attempted to clear the track?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The soldiers did not use any more force than was necessary, at first?

A. No, sir; they did not use any force at all, but simply pushed ahead with their breasts.

Q. Tried to push the crowd back quietly?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you see any stones thrown?

A. I saw one that I took to be a clod of earth, about the size of my hand, thrown from the west side of the watch-box from the side of the hill, down into the soldiers. That was the only stone I saw thrown that day.

Q. You were not near enough to tell who ordered the firing?

A. I could hear a great many words. I could not hear sentences, but I heard the word, "fire," distinctly. I could not hear any conversation unless it was in a loud tone of voice, but I heard, "fire," as distinctly as you speak.

Q. Did the soldiers fire in a volley?

A. No; more like one soldier got scared and he fires off his gun, and the balance follow suit.

Q. What was the objection to running double-headers?

A. It puts two men's work on one man for one man's pay. We had been reduced so often that we thought they had got about as low as we could live.

Q. How much did you average?

A. If I averaged full time, it was $70 20 per month before the reduction. After that I got $2 45 a day, and never got a full month. If you want to know all about their wages, I can tell you from the first reduction. When I went on the road they were paying conductors $2 60 a day.

Q. When was that?

A. The 21st February, 1872, I think. They were paying conductors then $2 60 a day, and there was an order came out--or rather the men wanted more wages, and the committee went to Philadelphia, and it was arranged that conductors, who had been running trains prior to March 1, would get $2 85. New conductors were only to get $2 45. When I went on the road first I acted in the capacity of brakeman for about eight weeks, and on the 24th day of April I took out my first train, and I received $2 45 for that. I ran from the 21st day of April till the 16th of June as extra conductor, part of the time running trains and part of the time not. After the 16th day of June I got a regular train, and I ran that for a whole year for $2 45, and from the 16th day of June till the 1st day of next January I received $2 70, which I was led to suppose was a raise of ten per cent. On the 1st day of January an order came out that we should be reduced, and that cut me down to $2 40. I could not understand how a reduction of ten per cent. would take off more than an increase of ten per cent., and I had an interview with Mr. Pitcairn and the only satisfaction I got, that the company was losing money. The 16th day of June my wages went up to $2 70, and that was the wages I received up until the day of the last reduction, when they cut me down to $2 45.

Q. You had been getting $2 70, and they cut you down to $2 40, then you went to talk to Mr. Pitcairn, and he told you that the business was bad, and they had to make this reduction?

A. I did not make any complaint. They reduced by tens instead of by fives.

Q. What reason did he give?

A. He could not give me any reason, he said it was done on higher authority.

Q. I understood you to say, he said something about business was poor?

A. He said that the company was losing money. He took into consideration the different conductors, and they had different pay, and the conclusion was that they were losing money.

Q. Then they reduced you?

A. They reduced me to $2 40 at that time. They ran the first year for $2 20, and the second year for $2 45, and the third year for $2 70--so the order was in the start out. I never happened to come in under the $2 20 list, they raised me to $2 70, then they cut me down to $2 40, and I had to work from June to January, at $2 40, and then went up again to $2 70, on account of the year having expired.

Q. What was the pay of the brakesman?

A. Brakesmen originally received $2 00 a day, then afterwards they were cut down to $1 80, and the last reduction brought them down to $1 65.

Q. Did you know what wages they were making on an average?

A. They, as a general thing, made pretty near only about $26 per month. Some months a man can make almost double time, other months he could not make so much.

Q. Did that depend upon his being attentive?

A. No, sir; it depended entirely on his business. A new man was treated the same as an old man, so far as going out was concerned, unless he was an extra brakeman. If he was regular, on a regular run, he went on that train every time.

Q. Of course, if he was not there to go out, some one took his place?

A. If he was not there to go out, they always supplied a man in his place--the crew was slim, I think, as it was.

Q. The man that was there always got his work?

A. I never lost a day on the Pennsylvania railroad by being absent, unless it was voluntarily or freight was scarce. Sometimes freight was scarce for a month, and they would have to cut one train off one day, and once they sent me home in July, for a week. It was on account of trade being very dull.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You are not in the employ of the road now?

A. No, sir.

Q. When did you leave it?

A. On the 16th day of August.

Q. Was there more of the hands left at that time?

A. The road was principally operated after the strike was over, by the same that had been on the line before the strike, and I was among the number, and about the time I stopped off, things began to assume the old fashioned shape--one day they would want me and the next day they would not, and I went to Mr. Pitcairn and asked him for an order for my money, and he said it was not necessary to give an order to get me the money.

Q. Quit of your own accord?

A. I suppose I would have been discharged if I had stuck to it.

* * * * *

William M. McKay, was recalled and explained to the committee the situation of the room where the soldier who was sun struck was taken into.

* * * * *

Colonel Smith, re-called:

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You heard the last witness describe the building, and the manner in which he entered that building, and the way that he entered--where he says he left the soldier was at the telegraph office?

A. It was not a telegraph office. [Witness explains the situation of the rooms in the building on a plot.] This is the telegraph office, and this is the train master. I presume by the description that was where the soldier was taken. This is the passage connecting the main entrance of the building with the telegraph office. This is the first floor--the first floor above the basement--there is a basement under the telegraph office, and the superintendent's private office is immediately over this, on the second floor. The outer office of the superintendent is there on the second floor, and the clerks here. Three on the first and three on the second, and this is the trainmen's room, this is a sort of counter here with windows where trainmen come up to get their orders.

Q. Was there a telegraph office adjourning this room where Mr. McKay carried the soldier?

A. The room is connected. There is a door just here.

Adjourned until this afternoon, at three o'clock.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

PITTSBURGH, _Tuesday, February 26, 1878._

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment.

All members present except Messrs. Lindsey and Larrabee.

* * * * *

P. J. Young, _sworn_:

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. Where is your residence?

A. No. 61 Fountain street.

Q. What is your occupation, sir?

A. Police officer.

Q. Were you on the force at the time of the riots, in July?

A. I was one of the men that was dropped at the time of the reduction--suspended.

Q. Were you on duty on Thursday and Thursday night, at the railroad?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Be kind enough to state what occurred there?

A. Well, on Thursday, about noon, I think, Mayor McCarthy called--came to my place where I lived, and told me to hurry down to the mayor's office, I was wanted. I went down, and met Chief Dimick, and he told me I was wanted on the Pennsylvania railroad, there was a strike. I asked him if I was to act as a police officer, and he says, Yes, I was only suspended. I went out and met Mr. Butler at the Union depot. I believe he is the depot master there, and I told him I was sent out there by the mayor's orders. He sent out a car with me and two more officers to Twenty-eighth street, where we joined more police out there. When I arrived there, there was a large crowd of people congregated upon Twenty-eighth street, along the railroad, and remained there until two or three o'clock. I don't know exactly what time.

Q. In the afternoon?

A. Yes. Then me and four officers were detailed to go on board of a double-header. There was a train going out. I went on the first engine, with another officer, as I understood for a protection for the engineer, as far as East Liberty. The train started, and moved on a little piece up the track, and a crowd of, I couldn't say how many, came in front and motioned their hands at the engineer. I said to the engineer, go ahead. He made some remark, and he jumped off the engine. I remained there on the engine, and finally the fireman jumped off. I stood there for some time, thinking they might come back again. They didn't, and I got off, and was asked by, I think, Mr. Fox--he is police officer of the company--if I wouldn't go on the engine again. I said yes. I went on the engine and remained there. No engineer came aboard, and finally I left. At the same time, the other police that were out there--I don't know how many--were strung all along the track, keeping the crowd off. I suppose in the neighborhood of six o'clock I came into supper here, together with more of the officers, to the Continental, on Fifth avenue, at Mr. Newell's; we had supper there. After supper we all went out. A good many went out along with me to the Union depot, and we expected to get a train to go out as far as Twenty-eighth street. We stayed along there, and no engine came down to the depot that night. Me and two or three more officers walked out Liberty street to Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd of people along there when we got out. I moved around through them. We patrolled Liberty and along Penn and Twenty-eighth street, and everything was very quiet. I left, I suppose, in the neighborhood of four o'clock in the morning. About that time. That is all I know.

Q. Did the crowd make any demonstrations? Was that all they did, waving their hands to the engineer?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. They didn't make any attempt to commit any violence?

A. No, sir; that night they were a very orderly crowd.

Q. What was this crowd composed of, railroad men?

A. I suppose there was some railroad men there through them.

Q. How many was there, do you suppose, altogether?

A. I couldn't exactly say. There was a large crowd of people. They were scattered up and down the railroad. It was dark.

Q. When you got this train, could you not have run that train out? Did you have a sufficient police force to guard a train--I mean on Thursday afternoon?

A. I wouldn't be afraid, if I was an engineer, to run away. I don't know what might have happened.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did you have a police uniform on?

A. I had a summer uniform--police blouse?

Q. A regular police blouse?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that you would be known as a police officer?

A. I had no buttons on it. I had my shield on the inside of my coat. I wore citizen's clothes all the time I was detailed as a reserve man.

Q. A stranger would not have known you were a police officer?

A. There were a great many that did know me.

Q. A stranger would not have recognized you as being a police officer?

A. No; I didn't wear a shield.

Q. Did you know that engineer that jumped off the train?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you know the fireman?

A. No, sir.

Q. How many police officers were there at any one time?

A. I couldn't, in fact, say how many. There was a squad went out in the morning--some more men that was suspended at that time. I don't know how many went out.

Q. Ten or fifteen or twenty?

A. I expect there was over fifteen men.

Q. Was there twenty?

A. I couldn't say, sir.

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. Did you keep the track clear?

A. The track was clear at that time. Afterwards, of course, we were not keeping it clear. There was a large crowd that stood away back.

Q. On Friday, what did you do?

A. I didn't go out there on Friday.

Q. Why?

A. I think I came down to the mayor's office Friday, and I got some sleep that forenoon, Friday, and I heard that the sheriff and his posse had gone out and our services were not required.

Q. Who told you that?

A. I couldn't say. I don't know whether it came from the chief's clerk or not--Mr. Davis.

Q. You heard it at the office?

A. I heard it, I think, at the office. I won't swear to it, but I think I heard it at the office. However, I didn't go out.

* * * * *

M. Mulvaney, _sworn_:

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. Michael Mulvaney.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In Eighth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Policeman.

Q. Were you on the police force in July, at the time of the disturbance?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What days were you on?

A. On Thursday, the mayor's clerk told me to go to the Union depot there, and report to Mr. Butler. Mr. Butler told me to go to work at the round-house, and two or three more of us went down and we remained there. We went to the round-house, and we met some more of the police and stayed there for a long time. There was a big crowd around there. A lot of the police jumped on the train to help take it out--a double-header. Eight or nine of the police jumped on the train, and I saw the engineer and fireman jump off. The fireman and engineer jumped off. That is all I saw at that time. Everything was quiet.

Q. Were you there during that time?

A. No, sir; I was not. I left at four or five o'clock.

Q. Clearing the tracks and keeping the crowd off?

A. The crowd stood one side.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Were you one of the discharged men?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who sent for you to appear at the mayor's office?

A. I think it was the mayor's clerk or the chief clerk. I could not say which of the two.

Q. How many of you went out together?

A. Me and two more fellows went together at that time.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You went up there to help to take out the train--a double-header?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many of you?

A. I could not say. There was a good many police there. I could not say how many.

Q. Were you on the engine?

A. No, sir; I was not on the engine. I saw a lot of them jump on the engine.

Q. Policemen?

A. Policemen.

Q. Were there any threats made against the engineer or fireman?

A. I did not hear any.

* * * * *

Conrad Shaffer, _sworn_:

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. Conrad Shaffer.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 318 Fifth avenue.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Police officer eight years and nine months.

Q. Were you on the police force last July, at the time of the riots?

A. I was not, sir.

Q. Were you sent for to appear at the mayor's office?

A. On Thursday morning, when this occurred, we were standing down there on Smithfield street. We just had been paid off, and I was standing there with George Kauffman, another police officer, and Detective O'Mara came to us and said we were wanted at the mayor's office. We went over, and they said to us there was a strike some place. They did not tell us where. There was ten of us gathered around there in the mayor's office, and we were marched by Smithfield street to the Union depot. Mr. Fox, the railroad officer, was along. We walked up Smithfield to the Union depot and got into a car with the shifter in front, and took us out to Twenty-eighth street. They stopped there and we got out, and when we got there this man McCall, who struck Watt--I seen the man running backwards and forwards--then somebody got him by the back of the neck, and I then ran up and put the nippers on him and arrested him and took him to the Twelfth ward station-house, and we went back to the railroad track. I stayed there all the forenoon, until about two o'clock in the afternoon. There was a train came along, and Mr. Fox came to us and said he wanted men on the engine. Fox told me and Cochran to stay in the rear, and we went back to the rear, and while we were going back the train moved on, and men got in front and done this like, [holding up his hands,] and the engineer got off. The second engineer got off, and the men that was firing they got off, and we stopped there then all the afternoon, and we went to the central station. We had our supper in the Continental, and after we had supper we were marched back again out to the depot. Walked up then to what they call the dispatch office, at the outer depot. There is a little house that they call the dispatch office, and a telegraph dispatch came in that they did not want any more officers--thought they could do without the police out there--so then we stood there for a long time, and did not know what to do, and Clerk Davis told us we might go home if they did not want us. Directly a dispatch came in that we could go out. We were put on a car and taken out again, and we remained all that night, until half past three o'clock in the morning. Then there was no disturbance going on, and we went home. I then stayed at home. We were not wanted any more--the city did not want us, and the railroad company did not want us.

Q. Did they tell you they did not want you?

A. We were our bosses.

Q. You say the railroad company did not want you?

A. I did not see any official of the Pennsylvania railroad there at all. On Monday evening after the proclamation was issued for all the old officers to come back again, I went to the Central station and offered my services, and on Monday morning the mayor, and General Negley, and a squad of his men, and a company of Mr. McFarland's were marched down Smithfield street to this place, where the boat was coming in from Elizabeth--right down here on second avenue--and stopped them, and the mayor and General Negley then made speeches to the men, told them they had better not raise any violence in the city of Pittsburgh, and keep quiet. We were taken away again, and placed on the city of Pittsburgh force on our regular beat.

Q. After you tried to start this train, and the men waved their hands, and the train stopped, did you get off?

A. I was not on the train. I was in the rear of it.

Q. Were the officers in possession of the track?

A. There was officers all along the track.

Q. They could have run this train. It was possible for the train to go out; that is, the crowd could not have interfered.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You went back to the depot after supper?

A. After we had supper, we marched to the Union depot. Went into the telegraph office, outside the Union depot--there was a two story frame they called a dispatch office. A dispatch came in that they did not want any officers, and I asked Clerk Davis, says I, "Don't they want any more police out there" and he said, "It seems not."

Q. Who is Clerk Davis?

A. He was the chief's clerk.

Q. The mayor's clerk?

A. No, sir; the chief's clerk.

Q. He was not a railroad official?

A. No, sir; the chief's clerk.

Q. Dispatch came that they did not want any more officers?

A. They dispatched that a man was here, and if they wanted him, they could have him. There were two young men in there that were playing checkers. I could see them standing at the window and looking in. They were playing checkers at the time, and I walked right up to Mr. Davis, and the young fellow held his ear right down to the instrument when it came. They telegraphed, "You can send him, if the man is willing to go out." So he went.

Q. You did not go back, you said.

A. I went home.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did you know those engineers that jumped off the train?

A. No, sir; they were perfect strangers to me.

Q. Did you know the man that waved, to stop the train?

A. No, sir; he was a tall young man, light moustache, to the best of my recollection.

Q. Did you know any of the railroad employés?

A. No, sir. It was on a different part of the city. My way was out here on Fifth avenue, that was over on the other side.

By Mr. Yutzy:

Q. Did they start the train?

A. They ran about the length of this room.

Q. How many men were on the track in front, and waved and signaled to stop?

A. I could not say how many there were in front of the train. There was not any more on the track than there is in this room.

Q. Did they make any threats?

A. No, sir.

Q. Said nothing to the engineers?

A. No, sir. All the man done was this. [Waving his hands.]

Q. Did you take that to be a signal to stop?

A. I supposed so. I was in the rear, and Mr. Fox told me. He says, "Shaffer, you go in the rear, and get on the train." Says I, "All right, Mr. Fox." Just as I got ready to jump on, the train stopped.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. This man that made these signals, was he on the track in front of the engine?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How far were you from the engine?

A. I went to jump on. I went to get on, and I seen the young man doing this. Some of them hooted and cheered, and then she stopped.

Q. You were not at the rear of the train?

A. Not quite; it was a long train. I do not know how many cars were on it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you up there on Sunday?

A. No, sir.

* * * * *

George Cochrane, _sworn_:

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. George Cochrane.

Q. Your residence?

A. Eighth ward.

Q. Occupation?

A. Been on the police force until they dropped these men.

Q. Are you on the force now?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you on duty on Thursday and Thursday night of July 19th?

A. I was one of the ten men that was called in on Thursday.

Q. Be kind enough to relate what occurred?

A. We mustered up ten men, started out to the Union depot, got on a car there and went as far as Twenty-eighth street. Seen a big crowd out there. Stopped around there a little while, and this McCall, he jumped on a switch there and made use of some threatening language, and I believe, struck superintendent Watt, and we arrested him and put him in the Twelfth ward station-house. We fetched him to central station at Diamond alley. We came in, got supper and went out again, then went to the Union depot and stopped out there awhile, and didn't know whether they wanted any more men or not. We stopped there awhile, and finally went out as far as Twenty-eighth street again, and stopped there all night. In the morning, I guess, six or seven o'clock, I came in again--Friday morning I came in to the Union depot, and seen Mr. Fox there, and he detailed me for the depot then--detailed five of us. Stayed in around about the Union depot. I stayed there until nine o'clock Friday night, and Fox told me I had better go home and get some sleep. I went home and came back Saturday morning, stayed around there all day Saturday and Saturday night, and I went up home to change my clothes. Sunday morning I came back again, stayed around until the Union depot had catched fire, and word was sent from the mayor's office that the mayor wanted all the policemen he could get hold of to report at the mayor's. We went down to the mayor's office, and was detailed there, doing duty around the city. We went out Second avenue here and stopped a party there from coming in. The mayor made a speech to them. Went to the Connellsville depot and arrested some thirty or forty there that had taken a train and would not pay any fare.

Q. Taken a train to go out?

A. No; they took charge of a train and would not pay fare.

Q. That was the parties that came from Cumberland, Maryland.

A. Yes; that was the same party.

Q. This double-header, on Thursday, I believe, was thirty-six cars and two locomotives?

A. We started to go out with some four or five policemen on each locomotive. Sheaffer and I was on the rear part of the train, and we made several attempts to go out, and the engineer on the first locomotive he jumped off, and the crowd cheered him. Then he got back on to his locomotive, and got his coat out of the box and put it on, and they both left their engine. There was nobody to hinder them going out, that I could see.

Q. Do you suppose they could run out, and did you have sufficient force to protect them?

A. There was sufficient force to protect them.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Were any of those ten men you speak of, that left the mayor's office, dressed in police uniform?

A. No; they had blouses on them.

Q. Could any of them be distinguished from any other citizens?

A. No; a stranger would not have known them, I suppose. There was hundreds of them out there knew me. I don't suppose a stranger would.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What made the engineers leave their engines?

A. They told them to get off.

Q. They told them to get off?

A. They beckoned for them, I believe, and they got off.

Q. Did you know the engineer?

A. Never had any acquaintance with him. Since that time I have.

Q. You did not know them at that time?

A. No, sir.

Q. Didn't tell you why they got off?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was any threats made by any one?

A. No, sir.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You speak of these men making some threats. They struck Mr. Watt?

A. Yes, sir; McCall, he used threatening language at the time he struck him.

Q. What did he say?

A. He jumped out there and says, "We will die here."

Q. Die--make a fight before these trains would go out?

A. Yes; we had no trouble out there after we made that arrest?

* * * * *

Patrick J. Carrigan _sworn_:

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 109 Second avenue.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Police officer.

Q. Were you on the police force on July 19?

A. Special police officer--yes, sir.

Q. Were you on duty on Thursday and Thursday evening?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you be kind enough to state what occurred?

A. I went on duty Thursday afternoon. There was a pretty good sized crowd at Twenty-eighth street. And they were getting ready to take a train out, and they put a good many officers on each car and the locomotive, and some stayed along the line and watched them. One man got out in front and done this way. [Waving his hand.] The train and the engineer got off.

Q. How long did you stay there?

A. I stayed until five o'clock, and then came in town, and they were taking this McCall in; and I got supper, and then went out again in the evening, and stayed there all night.

Q. Were you on duty Friday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Friday night?

A. No, sir.

Q. Saturday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you on duty at any time afterwards there?

A. Yes; went on duty again on Tuesday after the riot, and when going out on the train, one of the Pennsylvania officials got on the train, and told us when we got to Twenty-eighth street to get off, and not let these men see us. They did not want these men to know that they were.... About twelve of us went up the hill, and lay there behind some trees all night.

Q. This was Thursday?

A. Thursday. A few of us would go down to where the railroad fellows were, and stand around there. There was not over twenty-five or thirty.

Q. Were they on the tracks?

A. No, sir; on Twenty-eighth street. There was nothing on the tracks but railroad men, walking up and down.

Q. Could you have taken that train out that day?

A. Yes, sir; if they had engineers that train could have gone out.

Q. You had possession of the track--and the officers did?

A. There was only this one that was on the track.

Q. Was there any attempt made to assist him?

A. Not that I saw. He went over in the crowd. I was down back where the crowd was, in case of any of them interfering. We were in citizens' clothes, and we scattered amongst them.

Q. There was no attempt made to arrest?

A. They made arrests before I got up.

Q. They got McCall?

A. Yes, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Policemen hid behind trees?

A. We were told to go there by the railroad officials--to get off and not show ourselves; there was some trees in the road, and we laid down there.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were you ordered by the railroad officials in charge of you to go behind trees?

A. To go up on this road. He didn't tell us to go behind trees.

Q. And conceal yourselves?

A. And conceal ourselves.

* * * * *

John Davis re-called:

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were you out at Torrens, Mr. Davis, during Thursday?

A. I was.

Q. Will you be kind enough to state what occurred there, and what efforts were made by the police to disperse the crowd?

A. When I got there there was nothing special going on, for everything was quiet. I didn't remain there but a short time--came back to Twenty-eighth street, and when I was there everything was perfectly quiet.

Q. Officers had possession of the track?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have testified to what knowledge you had of the occurrences at Twenty-eighth street?

A. With the exception of Thursday night--a little matter I forgot. After I had got the men their suppers, I went to the depot, and reported at the telegraph office I had men to go out. And the reply came back that everything was quiet, and they needed no more men, and they could not send an engine for us. I told the men what transpired, and directly a second despatch came, that we could go out if we wished to. Some of the men walked out, some remained around the depot, and went out afterwards. As I have stated in my other testimony, on Friday morning I sent officers up to the depot, and they returned and stated that they were not wanted; they had all the men they wished.

Q. I believe you testified to that?

A. Yes; I testified to that.

Q. Anything else?

A. Nothing further than I was a witness of the transaction of the firing.

Q. Have you testified as to that?

A. No, sir. You stopped me right at the firing. I was present when the troops came up, and witnessed the whole transaction.

Q. Go ahead?

A. After the troops came up there were civilians in front of the troops. They halted probably five or six feet from Twenty-eighth street. The column left faced, and marched towards the sand-house. The first two columns about faced and marched towards the hill side--formed an open square--and a detachment of soldiers came between the two columns, with the Gatling guns in the rear of them. A detachment of soldiers came up between the two columns--came towards where the crowd was gathered--at a carry arms, and it appears they could not get further, and they fell back five or six paces, and came to a charge bayonets. At that time, when they came to a charge bayonets, there was in the neighborhood of a dozen or two missiles thrown from the house. I only saw one stone among the lot. At that moment they commenced to fire. I was on the hill side.

Q. Was the crowd resisting the soldiers?

A. There was such an immense gathering there they could not get away--they had no chance to get away.

Q. Did the soldiers attempt to press them back at first?

A. They first came to carry arms--carrying their guns at the side of them--then they stepped back and came to a charge. Just at that point these missiles came from the little house, thrown by the boys.

Q. Did you hear any pistol shots?

A. Previous to that? No, sir; I did not.

Q. Did you hear any command to fire?

A. I didn't, sir. I was probably sixty yards above the railroad track. I could witness the movement of the troops, but could not hear any orders given. After the firing I immediately came down the hill the way I went up--took the same course. Came down past the soldiers, and went into the railroad buildings. I saw this soldier, who was carried off the ground before they had formed a square, and helped to bring him to.

Q. Who was there?

A. There was two men there--a reporter of one of the city papers.

Q. Do you know these men?

A. Only one of them.

Q. What was his name?

A. Mr. Rattigan. Him and I went in together. He is a reporter--used to be on the Pittsburgh _Chronicle_.

Q. What office was he carried to?

A. Telegraph office. The first floor in that building, Twenty-sixth street.

Q. Was there anybody in the room at the time besides these two men?

A. There were two other men attending him. One of them had a bandage around his head, and said he had got hit with a stone. He said he was not hurt very much. There was a small bandage around his forehead.

Q. You didn't know who gave the orders to fire?

A. No, sir. After the firing there was quite a .... raised. Some parties were excited over it--some of their friends being killed. It was quiet Thursday, Friday, and Saturday along the railroad. Had no trouble.

Q. How soon after the firing did you go down to this telegraph office?

A. The minute they commenced firing I saw dust flying pretty lively round me, and I started up the hill. I suppose I was three to five minutes going up and coming down. After the firing was done I came right down the hillside again--I came down the same course I went up.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You say a sick soldier was in the telegraph office?

A. In the room in the left of the building as you go in.

Q. Is that the telegraph office?

A. They call it a telegraph office, but it is not in that room.

Q. Train master's office?

A. I don't know whose office it is. They call it a telegraph office.

Q. The instruments are in the adjoining office?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you see into the telegraph room?

A. I opened the door to look in.

Q. Anybody in?

A. No; the operator was working with this young man on the floor. He was having a spasm, stiffened up. They worked with him for probably ten minutes before he came to.

Q. He had a fit, didn't he?

A. A fit of some kind.

Q. That was fifteen minutes before the firing took place?

A. I came down the hill immediately after the firing took place, and went there to see these parties in the room.

Q. Did you see General Pearson on the ground just before the firing or during the time of the firing?

A. Didn't see him out after the troops went into the round-house; then I saw him in the yard, probably six o'clock in the evening--between five and six--I saw him in the yard.

Q. Did you see the officers in the hollow square?

A. I saw some, but could not recognize any of them.

Q. Do you know General Pearson?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Didn't see him?

A. No; didn't see him until the firing was all over.

Q. If General Pearson had been in the hollow square, wouldn't you have seen him?

A. My attention was not directly called to the officers. I was watching the movements of the men, and the minute these stones were thrown, my attention was called to that. In fact, I was not looking at the officers, I was watching the movements of the men. I suppose if I was looking for General Pearson, I could have picked him out from others. I have known him for a good many years.

* * * * *

Richard Hughes, _sworn_:

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. Richard Hughes.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 2512 Carson street, south side, Twenty-fifth ward.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I was on the police force.

Q. Were you on the police force on the 19th day of last July?

A. I was one of those suspended.

Q. Did you offer your services to the railroad officers on the 19th of July?

A. Yes; I went up to the Union depot, two or three parties along with me, ex-policemen, Thursday morning. Stayed there until about eleven o'clock. The first thing, I seen about ten or fifteen, or twenty policemen, with two or three detectives, walking through the Union depot. That drew my attention, and I followed them. George Crosby, and two or three other parties went back, and met Mr. Davis on Smithfield street, and he told us they wanted to see us at the office--wanted us to go out to the Union depot. We went down to the Union depot, and seven of us, with detective White, and taking a train between one and two o'clock from Union depot to the stock-yards, we went out--seven of us. Sam Leary, at East Liberty, he came in, too. Mr. Watt was along with us. There was two or three hundred people around there, and they told us to clear the track, they were going to start a train then. We went to move them off the track, so they did, and when the track was clear, they couldn't get engineers, firemen, or brakemen to take out the train. Stayed there until seven or eight o'clock that evening, and everything was quiet. The regular force came out about half-past six that evening, in full uniform, around the stock-yards. There was nothing going on there. We came on on Monday morning following. I came to town; went up to the Union depot. I saw two or three policemen, and asked who hired them, and they said Fox. I asked him if they wanted any more policemen, and he said he had plenty. I asked for Mr. Watt, the superintendent, and he told me he was at the round-house. He told me they wanted no more policemen. I asked him to pay me what he owed me, I want to leave town in the afternoon. He said he couldn't pay me, to go to the office. He told me he didn't want any more police. I went to Mr. Watt myself.

Q. Did you tell him the mayor had sent you?

A. I told him the mayor had ordered us out there. The day before that we wanted to know who was going to pay us. They told us the pay was all right. Clerk Davis asked me, why ain't you on duty, and I told him they didn't want me.

Q. Did you see anything of the fire that night?

A. No, sir; I left two o'clock Friday afternoon.

* * * * *

George W. Crosby, _sworn_:

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What is your full name?

A. George W. Crosby.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 1117 Carson street, south side.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Formerly a policeman and laborer.

Q. Were you on the police force on the 19th of July last?

A. No, sir. I was taken off on the reduction. The 11th or 12th of July the suspension took place.

Q. Did you offer your services to the railroad officials on Friday, the 20th?

A. Yes. I went to the Union depot on Friday, the 20th, between nine and ten o'clock. I met Mr. Fox, a police officer of the Pennsylvania railroad, offered my services to him, and he told me he didn't want any more. He had all the men he wanted, and mentioned the number of men he had.

Q. How many did he say he had?

A. I couldn't say positively. Three or four, or four or five. I couldn't swear to the exact number, but I know he mentioned it to me. He had all the men he wanted.

Q. You were not on duty on Thursday?

A. Yes; I was.

Q. Did you see anybody besides Mr. Fox?

A. At the Union depot?

Q. No, sir; that day--on Friday?

A. No, sir. I only offered my services to him.

Q. Did you see Mr. Watt, the superintendent, at any time?

A. I was in company with Mr. Hughes at the time he saw Mr. Watt, and I had nothing to say to Mr. Watt at all.

* * * * *

William J. White, _sworn_.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. City of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. On the detective force.

Q. Were you out at Torrens on Thursday, the 19th of July?

A. I was, sir.

Q. Will you be kind enough to state what occurred, and what efforts were made by the police force to disperse the crowd?