Chapter C: N. Farr, recalled (1)

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I wish you would state whether you were present when General Latta received a dispatch from General Brinton, on Saturday evening?

A. Yes, sir; I was.

Q. Of the 21st. State as nearly as you can what the import of that dispatch was?

A. I cannot remember it sufficiently to give any of the language, except the general impression left upon my mind that General Pearson had left me, and that he had had no communications, and didn't understand the situation, and stated the condition of his troops, and how particularly he stated that I can't remember, except that the impression left upon my mind was that the troops were in danger of demoralization. There was a certain amount of unreliability, and that was intensified from the fact that we knew or understood, at that time, that the Pittsburgh division had gone to pieces, and up to that time we had considered that there would be no difficulty in General Brinton's holding his position until morning; that he had sufficient force, and was well armed and ammunitioned; but the dispatch created the impression that his troops were somewhat infected with that feeling of sympathy, or disinclined to take vigorous operations, and I understood that to be the reason why no more vigorous measure were taken.

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General James W. Latta, recalled:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. In relation to General Brown--whose duty would it be to investigate the conduct of General Brown there at that time?

A. General Pearson's duty first; and if he did not investigate it himself, he ought to have reported the fact officially here. There was no official report that reached my department of General Brown's having, on that night, asked any troops to withdraw.

Q. Was General Pearson relieved of his command for any time after the troubles on the 21st there?

A. He remained temporarily withdrawn from his command until we started off to Scranton. When the Governor came into Pittsburgh that night, he found nobody but Brown, and placed Brown in temporary command of the troops that had been gotten together in the city.

Q. How long did Brown keep that position?

A. I should think from the 24th or 25th of July until the 1st day of August.

Q. No report has ever reached you officially that he did dismiss his troops?

A. No, sir; I never heard anything of it directly, except what Captain Bingham told me that morning, and I did not know but that Captain Bingham might have been misinformed--he might not have been in direct communication with his general. I did not pay much attention.

Q. Did any report reach you from Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard?

A. I saw Colonel Gray's report in the newspaper. Colonel Howard I don't think ever said anything to me about it.

Q. Does Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard mention the fact in their official report?

A. They don't come to me, sir.

Q. To whom do they report officially?

A. To General Pearson.

Q. Those don't come to you at all?

A. No, sir.

At this point, the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at nine o'clock.

HARRISBURG, _March 12, 1878_.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M., in Senate committee room No. 6. All members present except Mr. Larrabee.

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Honorable A. J. Herr _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It is made the duty of this committee, under the resolution by which they were appointed, to examine into the conduct of the militia of the State. Will you please state what knowledge you have of misbehavior on the part of the officers?

A. My personal knowledge is not very extensive, but the information that I received from credible citizens of Harrisburg, is clear and pointed. Shall I give you what I saw first?

Q. Yes.

A. One day during the riots--what day I can't recollect--but one day during the riots, I happened to be on the pavement in front of the court-*house in the city of Harrisburg, and I saw a large crowd, men and half grown boys, coming up from the depot, going towards the bridge that spans the Susquehanna river. The impression prevailed amongst the citizens that this crowd was going over the bridge to make an attack upon some soldiers that were said to be there. After a time--maybe half an hour or thereabouts--the greater part of that same crowd came back from the bridge. Then I saw in the center as it were of some few men and some half grown boys, soldiers, and these half grown boys, or some of them, were carrying the guns of the soldiers, and they were fraternizing with the young boys round about the soldiers. The soldiers, themselves, all seemed to be in good humor, seemed to know each other, and passed along very nicely and quietly, and the point of the whole thing was, that these soldiers had in this way allowed these few half grown boys either to take the guns, or they had delivered the guns up, and so they passed on down the street, these soldiers, with these few boys surrounding them, and I lost sight of them. I was then afterwards told, that the soldiers had sent word over to some of the people in town that they wanted to come to Harrisburg, and that they wanted these people to come over and escort them into Harrisburg. And then I was told further, that these parties had provided accommodations for these soldiers--these last two things I do not know, only that the rumors were upon the street, and at that time prevailing. And the feeling in my own breast, as well as throughout the citizens, was one of humiliation, that these soldiers would either give up their arms to these half grown boys, or send word to them that they wanted them to come and take them over to Harrisburg, or that they allowed them to take their arms. That is what I saw, and all I saw.

Q. How many of the soldiers were there?

A. That I cannot tell, because you know how difficult it is in a moving crowd to tell just about how many. I should suppose, maybe, there were six or seven or eight, or thereabouts. I am not accurate in regard to that, but there was a goodly squad.

Q. Were there any officers among them?

A. That I can't tell. You know I couldn't see very well, in the first place.

Q. Did you notice whether they were uniformed or not?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. No officers then?

A. That I could not say. I did hear that there was either a lieutenant or captain, but I am not positive in regard to that, but those were the general facts that I witnessed.

Q. How large was the crowd of half grown boys around them?

A. I should suppose, maybe, there were ten or twelve, that is, of the immediate crowd, that also was looking on, were attached to the body of men that were bringing the soldiers over. You might say that, perhaps, there were ten or twelve; but the crowd outside of the immediate circle of young fellows that had the guns was larger, and for the most part I guess they were spectators.

Q. When they went over the bridge in going out, how large a crowd was there?

A. It was a pretty large crowd, perhaps it numbered--I really don't know, but should suppose that that crowd may have numbered two hundred or thereabouts, but they didn't all go across the bridge, because I was told that the bridge-keeper kept them back, and would not let them all go, but I suppose the van of the crowd got over before they closed the gates.

Q. What is the bridge-keepers name--give it in full if you can?

A. That I can't tell; but I will get it and hand it to you, or to one of the gentlemen. I might get it in the Senate chamber. I guess, maybe, Mr. Childs could tell it.

Q. Which bridge was it, the covered bridge?

A. Yes, sir; that was about all I saw then. Shortly after, or some time after that, a gentleman by the name of Major Mumma--Major David Mumma----

Q. Do you know what those boys did with that squad?

A. I said that I heard that they took them down to some hotel and provided meals for them, and furnished them, I was also told, with means to get away. That I only heard.

Q. Do you know what hotel it was?

A. My recollection is it was some hotel--Boyer's hotel, on the railroad. I may be mistaken in regard to that. Some of the hotels down in that neighborhood. I was going to say that Major David Mumma, of this city, told me, and I have no doubt it is true, but he can give it you first hand, that he had occasion to go out to his farm, and to reach that farm he had to pass a little town by the name of Progress, and there he found a number of soldiers, and, I understood him to say, the officers with their epaulets torn off, and their buttons cut off, and very much excited and alarmed; and that they told him they had come, I don't know where, over the mountains and through the valleys, and all that sort of thing, and there they were.

Q. These are the ones you alluded to?

A. Partly.

Q. Where were they found?

A. In a little tavern in the little town by the name of Progress, near here. I would rather you would get the full statement direct from the major in regard to that. I can repeat what he said, but you can get it first hand.

Q. This was the party that was captured by the boys?

A. No, no. I just told you what I saw. Now I am only referring to what Major Mumma and other citizens told me about a squad of soldiers, and they characterized them as officers, epaulets cut off and buttons cut off, in a little tavern in a little town called Progress, near this city, and he described their alarm, and what he did to get them safe to the arsenal.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did it appear to you that the boys had taken these soldiers prisoners? Did they treat them as prisoners, escort them in unarmed?

A. You could hardly use the word prisoners, because the prisoners seemed to be so willing. They were rather captives.

Q. A prisoner generally makes a show to go willingly?

A. It would only be an opinion as to whether the boys--my own opinion is, that the boys did not capture them in the sense of these men resisting, and finally conquered them, but rather think that I believe what I was told afterwards is true--that is, that the soldiers had, some way or other, sent word here, and those fellows had gone over there.

Q. They wanted the boys to capture them?

A. I rather think so from what I was told.

Q. Did the soldiers carry arms?

A. No; the boys were carrying the arms.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. This crowd, when they started out--you could tell something by the way in which they started, whether they were moving toward an objective point?

A. Oh, yes, sir.

Q. That they appeared to be moving towards----

A. Yes, sir; just for instance, as you would stand by, and see a large crowd passing, and you would wonder where they were going, and you would keep looking to see that they were all directing themselves to one point, and you would then say, well, they are going there. Then I think that there is a Captain McAllister, who is living in Rockville, a few miles over here on the Susquehanna, he can tell you some very amusing things, and I don't know but a little humiliating, too. I could not distinctly recollect all it was that he said, because it was rather a humorous description he gave of their fright, &c.

Q. Is he a member of the National Guard?

A. No.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. The old gentleman?

A. No; it is the old squire, Jim--that is it, Captain James McAllister.

Q. Rockville, did you say?

A. In that neighborhood.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know anything about the movements of the troops about the arsenal or anywheres about this town?

A. No; I can't say. There was so much said. I think that Sheriff Jennings and Mayor Patterson could give you a good deal of information about the movement--the incipient movements of the troops here. Both of those gentlemen could give you a good deal of information.

Q. Was the mayor in the city during all the time of the riots?

A. I think the mayor was, but the sheriff was not. The sheriff happened to be away. I think, if my recollection serves me, he was either at Atlantic City or Philadelphia at the commencement of the matter. The mayor, though, I understand, was all the time here, but the sheriff came, I think, just as soon as he was telegraphed for--as soon as he could get here.

Q. Do you know what action the mayor or civil authorities took to suppress or disperse the mob or crowd that was about the depot?

A. I was given to understand, and I think it is the truth, that he and the sheriff, after the sheriff came here, in effect, said to a large crowd that were round about the Lochiel hotel, that all those citizens who were in favor of peace and order should follow; and so the mayor, I understand, and the sheriff--at least one, if not both--led off, and quite a number of the citizens followed them with the purpose of protecting any property that might be threatened at the depot, and suppress any riot that might be threatened. Then I was told further that the mayor and the sheriff--either both or one--addressed the crowd; but what was said exactly I don't know; but the purpose was to preserve the peace, and that I think was the beginning of what was called the law and order party here. Then, the law and order party was composed of citizens of the different wards that were organized into companies, with their captains and their lieutenants, and met at certain points regularly, and were drilled, and patrolled the city from early evening until late at night, and in that way order was preserved here. If there had been any attempt to break the peace in a violent way, outside of simple murmurings and mutterings on the part of the crowd, these citizens were fully determined to suppress it, and they had the means to--I mean as far as arms are concerned.

Q. What was the spirit of that mob?

A. I did not see it.

Q. When they stood before the court-house?

A. You mean when it passed there? As a matter of course, there was a good deal of talk, and now and then you would hear a shot and a yell, and so on; and I remember this, that I looked into the faces of some of the men as they passed, and unless it was the effect of imagination altogether in my mind, I would say that these men had a settled, cold, determined look in their faces, and I apprehended trouble.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were they railroad men, in their appearance?

A. No; I could not say that. My recollection is, that this man whose countenance I looked at particularly, as he was coming towards me, was a railroad man, but that was the only one I could see, that I believed to be a railroad man, although the probability is that there were more in it; but that fact I do not know.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Were there any strangers?

A. No; I don't think there were any strangers, although I can't say that I recognized any of them. If they were brought before me now, I could not say you were there or you were not there, because the fact of the matter is, I felt a little indignation, and so expressed myself to some police officers, that were standing, who happened to be near me. A police officer made a remark that excited me, and I turned upon him and berated him for what I supposed was his neglect of duty, and in that way my attention, possibly, was a little distracted from what was just passing at the time before me. If I understand you, you would like to get the name of this gate-*keeper at the bridge.

Q. Can you get any other gentlemen that could relate the same fact that Major Mumma can?

A. I cannot just now.

Q. About that squad of officers?

A. The major can. There was some people with him. McAllister's statement refers to a different transaction from what Mumma's does. Mumma's will be confined, if I remember rightly, to what he saw at Progress.

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John D. Patterson, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were mayor of the city of Harrisburg, I believe, in July last?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. At what day did the first disturbance appear here?

A. On Saturday evening, July 23, I think; I do not just remember the correct date.

Q. The 21st?

A. The 21st; you are right.

Q. You may state now the character of it and where it first broke out?

A. Do you wish me just to--my attention was first called to the disturbance on Saturday night, probably at ten o'clock. I was at the office, and had sent out the police force or their regular duty, and a report came to the office that there was a large gathering at the Pennsylvania railroad depot. There was a prospect of some trouble there. The mob interfered with the shipping of some ammunition. I immediately sent a special officer to Independence island, where there was a pic-nic and dance going on--and we had anticipated considerable trouble there--to call in the chief of police, and on his way down he should bring in the police officers before he returned. The lieutenant of police I had sent him to the depot. He, in company with special officer Roat, arrested a party for threatening to interfere with the engineer of a train, and had started to bring him to the mayor's office, and were stoned up Chestnut street and up Third to the office. They succeeded in getting the man into the office, and a large crowd gathered there, and I went out front and requested them to disperse. Quite a number of them left; probably three or four hundred remained there. Did not seem to be malicious or disposed to do much damage. Then I sent this man that had been arrested to the door to state that he had been arrested for drunk and disorderly. The crowd then dispersed. On Sunday was the first intimation we had of the strike among the employés of the Pennsylvania railroad. I was told there was a very large crowd at the Asylum crossing, and I took a carriage and went up there during Sunday, but found no person there. On Sunday afternoon I was informed that there was a large meeting out on the commons. I went out, and there was a man named Torbett making a speech to the crowd there. After he left the top of the car, there was an insane man got on the top of the car and talked about organizing to go and take this arsenal. About this time there was a passenger train passed down through the yard to the depot, and the crowd dispersed in the direction of the depot. I walked to the depot and found they had stopped the train--interfering with it. A great gathering there, nearly all of our own citizens--good, bad, and indifferent were there. Passed down the depot to the coupling between the engine and the first car--the baggage car--and found a great many there pulling the coupling. Among them were a great many boys, ranging from fourteen to twenty years of age. I seized two or three of the boys, took them off the platform, and ordered them away, and got up on the steps of the car and made some few remarks to the crowd, calling on the citizens, if they were ready to assist the police, to step forward and we would disperse this crowd. At that time the people did not seem disposed to take much part, as there was no violence done as yet. I motioned to the engineer to pull out--we then had succeeded in coupling up the train. He declined to pull out. Afterwards stated he was informed there were obstructions on the track below the city. I came away and the crowd dispersed during the evening. Probably two hours afterwards they sent the train out. On Monday the parties became threatening; great crowds gathering through the city, stopping trains. I then called on some of the citizens, told them the status, and whatever was to be done must be done for Monday night. We must get ready, for that night we would probably have violence. After consulting with many of the prominent citizens, I went to the office, sent out a police force and notified the better class of citizens that their services would likely be required on Monday night, at least they should hold themselves in readiness to respond and report at the mayor's office in case of two taps of the court-house bell, at any time, day or night.

Q. Was it verbal notice?

A. Yes; it was given verbally to the citizens by the police officers.

Q. In the form of a demand by you, or request?

A. It was a request. I had instructed the police force from the beginning to exercise great care and discretion so as not to precipitate or provoke an outbreak; that as long as the strikers or mob failed to do violence, that we should wait until the sentiment of the people would change. I would say that when the strike first came upon us, I presume that the great majority of the people were in sympathy with the strikers--looked upon it as a strike or dispute between the employés and officers of the road--and their sympathies were with the employés; but afterwards the sentiment changed when they found that violence and destruction was perpetrated at Pittsburgh. Then the sentiment changed, and they were ready to take part to put down the outbreak on Monday evening. I came from my house probably at six o'clock--I had been to tea--and coming downtown I was informed that there was a squad of Philadelphia soldiers had gone to Market street in custody of the mob. I then passed down Market street, and found that they had gone up the railroad. I followed up the railroad to Broad street, and there I found probably three thousand people gathered--men, women, and children. The squad of soldiers were there, in addition to the squad that had been brought in from Rockville. I found out who the soldiers were, and I requested--ordered them to send the guns to the mayor's office. Then they had forty-nine breech-loaders.

Q. The leaders of the rioters?

A. The mob, yes sir. After talking to the rioters they were entirely satisfied to send the guns to the office, but said a portion of the crowd would object, and requested me to make a few remarks to them. I then mounted a shed that was there and talked to them a few moments, and they very cheerfully then sent the guns to the mayor's office. The guns were afterwards turned over to the State, by order of Governor Hartranft. During that night an order came to the office--a report came to the office that they were breaking into a gun store on South Second street. I took a portion of the police force, hurried to South Second street, and we found the mob in possession of a store belonging to a man by the name of Altmeyer. We found that he had opened the door. They had gone there in force and demanded the opening of the door, and he had opened the door, and struck the gas for them, and they were all in possession of guns, and pistols, and knives. I formed the police force on the front and went in to them and talked to them, and after some little parley they all returned their guns--took nothing out with them. We came back to the office, and there Mr. Bergner, editor of the _Telegraph_, reported to me that they were forming on Market street, preparatory to destroying his building. I then struck the signal for the citizens to turn out.

Q. What time was that?

A. That was probably eleven o'clock.

Q. Monday night?

A. Yes, sir. The moment we struck the court-house bell the citizens came to our assistance. The sheriff, in the meantime, had returned home. He had got home about seven o'clock in the evening. I reported to him what we had done, and if it met his approval he should carry it out, with our assistance. He approved of our course, and he took charge of the citizens. They formed them into what he called a law and order posse, into companies and into a regiment. We then, after, formed at the corner of Third and Market. The sheriff and one officer and myself went down street to the mob, and attempted to speak to them from the steps of Mr. Muench, but they would not listen to us at all. They had broken into a store or two on Market street in the meantime. We then came back and came down Market street with the police force and the citizens, and the mob dispersed.

Q. How large a police force do you have?

A. We had seventeen. We had fifteen officers in line and two at the office.

Q. How many citizens?

A. I presume we had over--I can scarcely give an estimate, as they were formed in the rear of the regular police force--probably three hundred. From three hundred to five hundred.

Q. Were the citizens armed?

A. Most of them were armed.

Q. With what?

A. Revolvers and clubs.

Q. How large was the crowd at that time?

A. I presume there were--it being night we could scarcely tell--the street was crowded with them. There may have been from six hundred to one thousand men in the street in front of us. When we went down Market street the mob dispersed, with the exception of probably two hundred, with whom we had a little collision at the foot of Market street. Then they dispersed and we had no further trouble.

Q. Was there any firing?

A. No, sir; not a shot fired.

Q. The police were ahead?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they dispersed that mob?

A. The police would have been unable to disperse the mob without the assistance of the citizens.

Q. Were there any of the mob arrested?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many?

A. Probably eight or ten arrested during that night. Altogether, there were within the week, a few days following the riot, forty-five or forty-seven arrested.

Q. Were the police officers obliged to use their maces in order to disperse the mob that night at the foot of Market street?

A. No, sir.

Q. Those who were arrested, what class of men were they?

A. Most of them followed no occupation. Probably one third of them were employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and I would say that the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company were only arrested for interfering with the business of the railroad--they were not arrested for breaking into the stores.

Q. Those that were arrested among the mob at the foot of Market street that night, were there any railroad men among them?

A. Yes; one of the leaders of the mob was a railroad man.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did the leaders seem to be railroad men--that is, that you came in contact with?

A. The fact is, they did not seem to have any leaders, except on Monday night, a man by the name of Finfrock seemed to be the leader. They looked upon him as their leader, and they looked upon him as their leader on Monday night. That was the only time they seemed to have any designated leader.

Q. What was done with the parties arrested?

A. Some of them were tried and convicted and sentenced to from three to eight months, with fines ranging from $20 to $500, I think. Others were held over for several terms, then their cases were disposed of. Most of them had families, and the greatest trouble we had here, was with them that followed no occupation--thieves and professional men--crooked men of all classes.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Tramps?

A. A great many tramps. The only man that was wounded by a shot during the excitement, was a tramp. He was turning a switch, and one of the police officers approached him, and he started to run, and he ordered him to halt, and the fellow would not halt, and he shot him in the leg. He was about the only man that was shot, and he was a tramp. Quite a number of those that were arrested and convicted of breaking into the stores and taking the most active part were tramps. We know them as professional tramps.

Q. Did you ascertain what the purpose of the mob was on Monday night, in case you had not succeeded in dispersing them?

A. I think there was a very small portion of the mob that were disposed to interfere with the loading of ammunition to be sent to Pittsburgh. In order to draw the crowd away from the depot, it appears that the officers had arranged that this man should make a little forward movement, and they would arrest him. That drew the crowd up, and while they were drawn away, they loaded the ammunition and sent it off.

Q. To Pittsburgh?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you continue up this organization of citizens?

A. I think we continued the organization until the early part of August. It was not fully disbanded until the 10th of August.

Q. Did you have any trouble in raising it or getting the citizens to aid you?

A. No, sir; not at all. I presume we had from a thousand to twelve hundred men enrolled as members of the law and order posse.

Q. At the depot on Sunday night, when you called for the citizens to assist the police in protecting that train, did they respond?

A. No, sir.

Q. Was it from lack of--was it because they feared the result?

A. I think it was simply owing to the fact that they did not realize the situation at all. They were backward--I merely put the invitation to them, did not urge them at all, and I am satisfied, that if I had made a strong appeal to them, they would have responded.

Q. How large a police force have you?

A. Seventeen.

Q. In all?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they kept on duty both day and night?

A. Yes; they were on duty for eight days, day and night.

Q. Usually, how many were kept on duty?

A. At night?

Q. Night?

A. Twelve.

Q. How many during the day?

A. Five.

Q. This squad of soldiers that was taken down Market street--did you find where the crowd left them?

A. The soldiers were with the mob at Broad street and Pennsylvania avenue. When I got there they were feeding them, and giving them their supper.

Q. Where did they get the food?

A. At the houses right there--one of the hotels.

Q. Private houses?

A. Yes; some of the private houses.

Q. Fed by their captors?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What finally became of them?

A. They were put on the train here and sent to Philadelphia.

Q. How many were there?

A. in this squad that was brought from the bridge, I think there were about fifteen. Probably sixteen or eighteen.

Q. Any officers among them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What rank?

A. Lieutenant.

Q. And the other squad that was brought from Rockville, how many were there of them?

A. I can scarcely tell you. We received forty-nine guns altogether, that had been captured.

Q. Do you know whose command they belonged to or what regiment?

A. The knapsacks were mostly marked State Fencibles, and some few Weccacoe Legion. I would just say. Mr. Chairman, that on Sunday we had requested the editors to publish no extras, it would only inflame the public mind still further, and with one exception they had complied with the request. On Sunday morning I had directed all the gun-stores and hardware stores, that were dealing in arms and ammunition, to put away their arms and ammunition during the day or early in the evening, quietly, so it would not be noticed, and we would have had no trouble and the mob got no guns at all except that a party on Market street failed to comply with that request--or on south Second street--they had removed their guns and brought them back on Monday evening to their store. On Sunday evening we had issued a proclamation calling upon citizens to remain at their homes, not to gather in crowds or about the street corners, and these proclamations were put in the hands of the public on Sunday evening. It was late, probably six o'clock or after, when it was printed. The citizens very generally complied with the proclamation. There was no trouble. Our citizens here showed a very willing disposition to do anything that was required of them, and offered their services after they fully realized the situation.

Q. On Sunday, were the saloons open?

A. No, sir; we closed the saloons in the proclamation of Sunday evening.

Q. How long were they kept closed?

A. We kept them closed until Thursday, I think--Wednesday or Thursday following--when we allowed them to open during the day and close at six o'clock in the evening.

Q. You controlled that yourself, as mayor of the city?

A. Yes. The great trouble with us here was as to the question of the authority of the mayor. Whether the mayor under the charter of 1874--while it provides for the mayor to have the same powers as the sheriff in case of an outbreak or riot, it was a question with some of our attorneys here, whether it was an outbreak in the sense of the act until there was some violence committed, and the sheriff unfortunately was absent until Monday. When he returned Monday evening there was no further trouble. We, however, had made arrangements to take the responsibility notwithstanding the doubt about it.

Q. If I understand you, there was no act of violence really committed by the railroad employés?

A. No, sir.

Q. It was done by outsiders and strangers?

A. The parties pulling the coupling of the passenger train on Sunday evening, I do not think there was a railroad employé amongst them at all. Not so far as my knowledge goes.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. They were half-grown boys?

A. Yes; the great trouble was, they were boys fourteen to twenty-one years of age--boot-blacks and all classes. On Sunday night, when they talked about taking the arsenal, this man that had made these remarks was formerly an engineer of the Pennsylvania railroad, but, through religious zeal, he lost his reason, and was an inmate of an asylum. Of course, the remarks had very little weight. Did not carry the crowd with him at all. On Saturday night, Captain Maloney, after consulting with some of us, had taken his company to the arsenal with his guns. I called there on Sunday night about eleven o'clock, and he assured me he was fully able to hold the arsenal against the mob. After requesting him to telegraph us in case there was any appearance of an attack, I then came in, and requested Mr. Jenkins to unload Gobin's regiment below what was called the cut, as there was a great number of what was called the mob out between here and the track. We were afraid they would place obstructions on the track. Really they had placed obstructions on the track. I requested Gobin's regiment to be disembarked above the stock-yards, then they would have almost a direct route to the arsenal.

At this point the committee adjourned, until four o'clock this afternoon.

HARRISBURG, _March 12, 1878_.

Committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at four o'clock, P.M., in Senate committee room No. 6. Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All members present.

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W. W. Jennings:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were sheriff of Dauphin county in July last?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Still sheriff?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you at home at the time of the first disturbance that broke out in Harrisburg.

A. I arrived home--I was at Atlantic City--I arrived home Monday evening, July 23, about half-past six or seven o'clock.

Q. Just state how you found the city as to order and quietness when you arrived home?

A. I found the city under a great deal of excitement. The trains, I was informed, had been stopped from running, and I immediately went to my counsel, Mr. Wise, for instructions in regard to my powers and duties, and met a number of the prominent citizens, and went to work at once under advice of my counsel to prepare a proclamation, and I was informed by the mayor and other citizens, that the citizens had been notified to assemble at two strokes of the court-house bell. I went around town and endeavored to get parties together, until about ten or eleven o'clock, as near as I can recollect, and spent sometime preparing a proclamation and advising with the prominent citizens, and one came to me at the Lochiel Hotel and said that the rioters were breaking into the stores on Market street. I called upon the good citizens for the preservation of law and order to go with me and suppress the riot. I suppose about one hundred or one hundred and fifty went with me, and went down Market street, and we dispersed the mob. We arrested a couple of the rioters there. Afterwards came back, and I sent squads out. I then organized the party into companies, and I sent squads out to arrest and take these men out of bed who had been prominent and active as rioters, who I was informed had been prominent and active as rioters, and we put those in jail. The next morning I had my proclamation out, and also orders organizing companies. The citizens responded promptly. We organized some ten or eleven companies, and we ran the town on military principles for about one week. We had an officer of the day detailed to patrol the town at night, and we had the fire department under command, and everything in readiness if there would be any further trouble.

Q. What was the nature of your proclamation, was it calling for citizens to join?

A. The substance of my proclamation was, commanding the rioters to disperse, warning them of the penalties of the law, and summoning all good and law-abiding citizens to assist me in putting down the riot.

Q. As a posse?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have any difficulty in raising a posse of citizens?

A. No, sir; I cannot say that I had any great difficulty.

Q. They joined cheerfully.

A. They responded to my call. I arrived here at seven o'clock on Monday evening, and on Tuesday evening I paraded in the streets about nine or ten hundred men, organized as a regiment. My proclamation in the morning--that was issued on Tuesday morning. I had it printed during the night, and I had it posted all around town by daylight almost, and one of my proclamations called for them to assemble at the court-house, at two o'clock in the afternoon, and I supposed there were six or eight hundred men at two o'clock that afternoon there organized into companies.

Q. In the evening, at the Lochiel hotel, what was the nature of that call? Was it commanding the citizens to join you as a posse, or was it a request?

A. It was more of the nature of a request. Of course, the feeling in town was a matter I suppose would have to be handled very delicately, and I got up on the railing at the Lochiel hotel and said, "Gentlemen, I am informed the rioters are breaking into the stores down on Market street. For the preservation of law and order, how many of you will go with me to suppress it?" and there were a number of voices responded, "We will all go with you."

Q. And then you led off and they followed?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you reached the crowd, how large a crowd did you find assembled?

A. Well, I could not estimate the numbers. The line was drawn at the foot of Market street by the railroad. There was a line of men across the railroad there--standing there. I remember one man who was in front had a gun in his hand. I went up to him and took the gun from him, and he gave me some impudence and I took him by the neck and tossed him into the crowd.

Q. Was his gun loaded?

A. Yes; it was loaded.

Q. Who was that man?

A. A man by the name of Davis. He is now here in our jail.

Q. Was he a railroad man?

A. No, sir.

Q. What class of people were these rioters composed of?

A. Well, we afterwards arrested a number of railroaders, though we arrested a number who were not railroaders, and they who were not railroaders, I must say, were the worst characters. The railroaders did not want the trains to run, that was about the extent that they wanted or demanded. The other party, of course, that broke in stores, behaved in a riotous manner.

Q. What did your posse--or what did you find it necessary to do to disperse the crowd?

A. I think our appearance commanded respect. I could hardly put it in any other way. I think they thought we meant business when we went down there, and I gave them to understand that in as plain a way as I could.

Q. Did you disperse them?

A. Yes; we did.

Q. Was it necessary to use any violence in doing that, any more than to make the arrests you have told us?

A. Well, we arrested other parties there. In other words, when we came down there I told them what we proposed to do. We cowed them, and the parties who replied and gave us impudence, we arrested them at once.

Q. Did you have any soldiers, any of the militia at your disposal during any of them?

A. No, sir; we did not call for the militia at all.

Q. Did not find it necessary?

A. Did not find it necessary.

Q. About how large was the crowd at that time? How many would it number in your opinion?

A. It is a hard matter to give you an estimate. The crowd broke and ran across the bridge, and parties who lived on the other side of the canal have estimated them from two to five hundred people. I judge there were two or three hundred people there anyhow.

Q. Did they re-assemble at any time after being dispersed that night?

A. No, sir. Right after we had dispersed them, we organized at once into companies and patrolled the whole town, and of course it was known that we would arrest any assemblies or any crowds at any place. On Tuesday evening there were a number of parties who were looked upon with a good deal of suspicion at the depot--at the railroad; but they made no demonstration, and dispersed on our approach.

Q. What was done with the parties that you arrested?

A. Tried and convicted at court.

Q. Do you know how many were tried and convicted?

A. No, sir; I could not tell you. We had forty under indictment, I believe. Some of them are in jail now.

Q. Were they tried by the county courts or police courts?

A. They were arrested and had a hearing before the mayor, and were tried by the county courts--committed by the mayor, and tried by the county court.

Q. Were any of the militia brought in at any time?

A. No, sir.

Q. Coming under your own knowledge.

A. No, sir; not under my own knowledge.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. I would like to ask you a question. I have understood that there was considerable grumbling and growling about the expense for that thing--how much was that?

A. The county paid in the neighborhood of $2,000. They paid me $1,965. We heard of a case in North street where a man had some two or three hundred guns in his house, and on Tuesday we took the guns from him, and he brought in a small bill and the items were made up. There were fifty men that were detailed as specials. They were on duty, in connection with the mayor's police, as policemen, and we paid those two dollars a night--or two dollars a day--and it amounted to something upwards of $1,200--between $1,200 and $1,300--and the balance of the expense was for providing rations for our men at night. We were organized as a regiment, and we had regiment and company quartermasters, and we were provided with rations at night. They had quarters and all that kind of thing. That caused the expense, which was paid by the county commissioners.

Q. Not charged to the State?

A. No, sir; charged to the county. As it was all done under my orders, the county was liable for the expense--that part of it. The mayor had charge of these fifty men, to a great extent, that acted with his policemen--the mayor's policemen acted with me from the very start.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Both acted in conjunction harmoniously?

A. Yes; the mayor and his police were the first to tender their services.

Q. Not afraid of one superseding the other?

A. We had no trouble at all. We procured fifty revolvers from the State for the use of those fifty men we had. The other men armed themselves.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Armed with muskets, and rifles, and shot guns?

A. No, sir; I wanted them only to have clubs, but nearly every one of them had pistols.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I understood you to say the mayor and police tendered their services to you?

A. As soon as I arrived in town, it was supposed by the people that the sheriff would take charge of it. The mayor came to me, and tendered the services of himself and the policemen, and the policemen and the mayor were in front in anything done where the danger was supposed to be.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Held the post of honor?

A. Yes, sir. We used the policemen as skirmishers--you understand that.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Of course, that expense has been paid by the county, and considered finally settled?

A. Yes; the expense consisting of pay for these fifty men, and there were some twenty--to distinguish them from them the rioters, we had badges printed and labeled, and all that kind of thing--did not think it necessary to get uniforms--and that cost something. The members of the posse got no pay at all.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. In your official duties, did you inquire into the causes and origin of the riots, to ascertain what were the causes and grievances complained of?

A. The principal one was they did not receive enough to pay for the labor.

Q. These railroad men?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did the others complain of?

A. The others talked about being in want, and sympathizing with them on general appearance. I heard "bread or blood" in quite a number of places.

Q. Were the mill men and furnace men and the employés of the manufactories in and about the cities engaged in this riot as a general thing?

A. No, sir; I would say no. Not the men that worked. The fact of the matter was, my idea was, that the parties who were most active and violent were those who did not work at any time.

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. Never worked?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did they belong to the city, mostly?

A. Oh a good many of them did; yes, sir. It brought our worst characters to the surface, of course.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. When you found a man who was boisterous, and rather of an ugly disposition, you did not wait until the next day to arrest him?

A. We went for him at once.

Q. Right then and there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you not propose to do it in a quiet way?

A. We did not want to bark up a fight in any way. Of course, our whole course was to suppress disorder; but when a man was violent, we would not hesitate, and we did not run around with a chip on our shoulders, and ask some one to knock it off, or anything of that kind.

Q. The posse had pluck enough to arrest them at once?

A. We arrested them after we went to work--after we got the posse organized--wherever they could be found. The mayor's police made the largest number of arrests.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you have any conversation with the railroad men to ascertain what their grievances were?

A. No, sir; not to any extent.

Q. Did you, with any of the parties that you arrested?

A. Oh, I talked with them after they were in jail; yes, sir.

Q. Did you find out from the railroad strikers, or from any reliable source, whether there was any pre-arranged plan for a strike or not among the railroad men?

A. From what they told me, they would give me that impression--that there was a pre-arranged plan for a strike. They complained. My understanding of what they told me was that they had been got into this thing by the engineers, and then the engineers had stood back and let them stand the trouble. Their words were, "Stand the racket."

Q. What day did they first strike here in Harrisburg?

A. That I cannot tell. I was not here.

Q. Was there any organization here known as the Trainmen's Union?

A. I understand that they have an organization here--Locomotive Engineers' and Trainmen's Union.

Q. Did you learn it from any of the men themselves?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you learn the objects of the Trainmen's Union?

A. Well, all objects--the idea that they gave me was, it was for beneficial and mutual protection. The parties that were arrested--the larger part of them that were arrested by the mayor's police, they blamed it more on the locomotive engineers than any other society. That they had got them to strike, and showed their hand, and got them into trouble, and they had stood back and done nothing. We often find, when persons are in trouble and they are in jail, they always have some other parties to blame it on.

Q. Did they say to you what they proposed to do?

A. No, sir; other than they wanted their wages increased. They did not speak of the organization as one of the objects being for the purpose of getting up strikes. They said it was more as a beneficial and mutual protection society; but I inferred from what they said that they regarded the society would act together in a strike.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Was it a complaint they made of the reduction of the wages--that the wages had been reduced?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you learn when that reduction had taken place?

A. I did not.

Q. Whether it was immediately preceding this strike or not?

A. That I do not know, sir.

Q. Did not learn from them how long their complaint had been standing--how long it had been running--whether recent?

A. No, sir; they did not go into the particulars at all in their complaint. It was on general principles about the workingmen being oppressed, and the road oppressing them.

Q. The rich oppressing the poor?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did these men that you talked with claim the right to interfere with other men who were willing to work; did you have any talk with them on that subject?