Chapter C: A. Fife, sworn with uplifted hand (16)

A. Yes, sir; there was one of them fell, and they picked him up, and took him into the hospital grounds. He was sun-struck, or something of that kind.

Q. How do you know he was sun-struck?

A. That is what some of his comrades claimed. Before they got to Twenty-eighth street this man dropped. He seemed to be a Jew, from his looks. The boys used the expression: "Let the damned Jew lay there." The railroaders got water for him, and bathed him.

Q. Have you ever told anybody that you heard the firing there, and heard the command given to fire?

A. I was a witness in the criminal court, in the murder case against General Pearson.

Q. Have you told anybody outside that you heard the command to fire given?

A. I believe I did.

Q. Have you told persons you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?

A. Not in direct words.

Q. Have you not stated several times, on the street corners, to different parties, that you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?

A. No, sir; I do not think I ever did--not in those words.

Q. Did you ever state to anybody that you had heard the commanders of companies give the command to fire, before stating it here?

A. I do not know. I forget exactly just what words my testimony was in the court.

Q. I am not asking you what testimony you gave in the court. Have you ever stated to any person before to-day, outside of the court, or anywhere, that you heard officers of companies give the command to fire?

A. I believe I have. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have stated that you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?

A. Not in those words.

Q. What do you mean by "Not in those words?"

A. I think the order to fire emanated from General Pearson, but I never said, in direct words, that General Pearson gave the order to fire.

Q. It was only a supposition of yours?

A. No; it was from the remark that I have sworn--I heard General Pearson give this--my remark was that General Pearson had turned around to other officers, with whom I am not acquainted, and used the expression, "Your men to fire;" but I did not say he had coupled those words with "Order your men to fire."

Q. Did you hear him say those words?

A. I have sworn. Yes, sir.

Q. To whom?

A. As I told you, I was not acquainted with the officers to whom he addressed himself. He was speaking to parties in gray uniform. He was standing almost immediately in his rear.

Q. He said, "Your men to fire?"

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How far were you from him?

A. I suppose I would be--I could hardly judge the distance--I would take it to be about ten feet or so.

Q. Did he speak it in a low tone?

A. It was not very loud. It was not a low tone.

Q. Was there a good deal of noise and confusion about at that time?

A. Oh, considerable, just in certain localities.

Q. The crowd was boisterous, were they not?

A. To a certain extent.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You did not hear any command given to fire, positively, by General Pearson?

A. No, sir; I never said so.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. How do you account for the long interval of time intervening between the command to fire and the firing.

A. I could not say.

Q. Did they load after the command to fire was given?

A. I could not say.

Q. Did you see them load?

A. No, sir; I did not see them fire.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. There was nothing preparatory at all, to this word fire.

A. No, sir; I thought it very strange myself, at the time the command to fire was given. They were not even ready.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You say you heard General Pearson speak to those officers, and said something about firing. You do not know whether he said not allow the men to fire, or to fire?

A. No, sir.

Q. How long after he made this remark to those officers did the command to fire come from those officers, and did it come from those same officers he was talking to?

A. I could not say whether it came from the same officers he was talking to. There were about fifteen or twenty of them in the crowd. I cannot say who he was addressing. It was started from that crowd, and carried by others still further down the line.

Q. How long after that was that order given to fire?

A. I do not think it was a minute. I cannot recollect the time.

Q. How far was General Pearson from the place when he had this conversation with those officers--how far was he from the position where those officers did give the command to fire?

A. I can hardly know.

Q. The word passed along the line?

A. It was passed by parties in front.

Q. How far did it pass until it got to those officers that did give the command?

A. It did not pass any further than, I suppose, seven or eight feet.

Q. The officers were pretty thick, were they not?

A. Yes, sir; very thick.

By Mr. Means:

Q. General Pearson appeared to stand at the head of the column?

A. He stood in the rear of the two companies that were charging up the track between the two lines and the side of the track.

Q. It appears from your testimony that the firing was sometime after the command to fire was given.

A. Yes; it was sometime. I had time enough to get away.

Q. Do you think that this firing was in consequence of the order to fire?

A. I did not wait to see anything about that. As soon as I heard the word "fire," I thought that was enough for me.

Q. Have you ever had any military experience in the army?

A. No, sir; never in the army. I served two or three years in the militia.

Q. Ever practiced firing any in the militia?

A. Some little.

Q. How long after the command to fire was given do you discharge your piece?

A. If in position to fire, we generally pulled as quick as we could get it off.

Q. When this firing began, was it a volley, or was it a scattering fire?

A. It was kind of mixed, I thought. I did not think it was what I considered a volley from a number of men that were present.

Q. Was it a scattering fire that lasted some little time?

A. The firing was kept up. Scattering fire was kept up for three or four minutes.

Q. The first fire?

A. The first volley, though not what I consider a volley from the number of men that were present. It sounded more like a volley than a scattering fire--the first fire. After that it was a scattering fire.

Q. There appeared to be a number of simultaneous discharges of muskets?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any one else present there where you stood that heard and saw what you said, or was likely to see and hear?

A. There were plenty there that could have seen.

Q. Any one that you know?

A. No, sir: no person that I know. I was not paying much attention to who was standing around me. No person that I knew of was in that locality at that time.

Q. Did you see the arms loaded at any time?

A. No, sir.

* * * * *

J. G. McConnell, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I reside in the Nineteenth ward, city of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your profession?

A. Practicing law.

Q. State whether you were at or in the vicinity of the elevator on the 22d of July last, about the time it was burned?

A. I was, sir.

Q. What time did you arrive at that place?

A. I arrived there just about the time that the fire was taking hold of the elevator.

Q. Just about the time the fire was taking hold of the elevator?

A. Just about the time the inside of the elevator----

Q. Were there any policemen there at the time?

A. No, sir; I did not see any.

Q. Did any come there?

A. Not that I saw.

Q. Did you send for any?

A. Not at that time, sir.

Q. Afterwards did you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see who set the elevator on fire?

A. I did not.

Q. And how it caught?

A. No, sir; but after the elevator was on fire. The person who gave you that information has not given you the correct information. After the elevator was on fire some little time, I was standing on Eleventh street, probably halfway between Penn and Liberty. While standing there, a man came up alongside of me and stood there. I did not say anything, and directly there was another man joined him. The first one was a short thick-set man, with a light colored moustache and imperial and light hair; a man I should say weighing about one hundred and sixty-five pounds, probably about five feet eight inches in height. The person who joined him was somewhat taller, nearly six feet in height, and they got into a conversation. They were evidently well acquainted with each other; and then the short thick man made a remark. Says he, "The elevator makes a very handsome fire." I spoke up and said I thought it was a very great shame and outrage that property should be destroyed, and this man turned around and said, "What is it your business?" I told him it was my business to a certain extent, as I was solicitor for the elevator company. I said to him that I thought the firemen ought to turn their hose on it. I then went to see Mr. Evans, and asked him if he could turn the hose on, and he informed me that it was impossible to do so. He had been deterred by the mob, and they had cut his hose, or threatened to cut his hose, and some man had put a revolver to his head; that he had two streams on, but had to take them off. I walked down pretty close to Penn avenue and these two men were still standing there. I stopped opposite them and they were still in conversation. The short thick-set man turned around to the other one and in a whisper made this remark to him, "Has the Pan Handle bridge been set fire to yet?" The other one says, "No, I think not." He said, "Somebody ought to send a party to do that;" and I then, left and went down towards Wayne street, went down to the river, went down the river, came up towards Fifth avenue, and on Thursday or Friday subsequent to the destruction of the elevator, on my way out home, in the evening, about half past four o'clock, passing the ruins of the Union Depot hotel, I saw this man standing there--this short thick-set man. There was a policeman standing on the corner. I went up to the policeman and pointed this man out and said, "That man, I think, was a ring leader in the riot. If you will arrest him, I will make information against him." The policeman did not reply, but walked up towards the avenue.

Q. Do you know the policeman?

A. No, sir; I did not take notice of his number.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you see the grain elevator set on fire?

A. No, sir; I was standing out in front, and from where I stood the burning apparently began at the back side, towards the Pan Handle side of the road, towards the Washington street bridge.

Q. How many policemen did you see around the vicinity at that time?

A. Did not see any.

Q. The only one you saw was on this bridge?

A. I did not see any at all that day--that evening.

Q. When was it you saw this policeman?

A. Thursday or Friday, subsequent to the destruction.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you make any report of the policeman who refused?

A. No, sir; only to the officers of the elevator company.

Q. Did they make any effort to find out who the policeman was, afterwards?

A. I do not know, sir--that is, I made no official report to the company. I just reported it to one or two of the officers, and their instructions were, if I recognized the party, to report it, and if I recognized the party I saw on Monday evening to report it.

Q. You made no report of that policeman to the mayor of his refusal to act?

A. No, sir; if I had known his number I certainly should; but I did not know his number.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You did not hear enough of the conversation between those men, to find out whether there was an organization?

A. None, whatever. I did not hear sufficient of that. I believe that is all the conversation I heard in regard to the matter. There was a remark made that rather implied I had better get out of the way, and I stood over by the engine.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. These men were both strangers to you, the short man and the large one?

A. They were men who were working. I evidently took them to be mill men about the city here. I do not think they were strangers in the city at all, sir.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were they railroad men?

A. I do not think so. I could not judge from their appearance. Just from their appearance, I took them to be men working about some of the mills or about some heavy employment in the city. I judged that more from their general appearance and from their hands. I noticed one man put up his fist. He had a very large heavy fist, and it looked like a work-man's fist.

Q. That was Thursday or Friday subsequent to the burning, that you met this other man?

A. Yes; Thursday or Friday?

Q. What time of day was it you met him?

A. I think it was about half past four in the afternoon. I left my office to go home, and it took me, I suppose, eight or nine minutes to walk up to where the Union Depot hotel stood at that time. Probably I stood around there ten minutes looking at the ruins, and it was just as I was moving off--probably it was about five o'clock.

* * * * *

Doctor James B. Murdock, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Please state where you reside?

A. I reside on Centre avenue, No. 99. Up over the hill from the railroad--over that side of the hill--back from it.

Q. A practicing physician in the city of Pittsburgh?

A. Practicing physician and surgeon.

Q. State what knowledge you have of the late riots?

A. When I heard I was to be subpoenaed here, I wrote down what I know about it, and perhaps that would be the quickest way of telling. My first knowledge of the riot was on the evening of the day of the riot, the 21st of July, about half past five o'clock in the afternoon, when I was returning to my office from my calls, and one of my neighbors came running to me in a hurried manner, and stated that a little boy had been shot and needed my services. I accompanied the messenger to a drug store in the vicinity of my house, and on my way there this messenger informed me how it happened, and told me the boy had been sitting on the hill side above the Twenty-eighth street crossing, and that he also was there, and that there was a volley of musketry fired from the soldiers, who were down on the railroad track, and that the little boy had screamed out----

Q. I hardly think this comes within the scope of our investigation, unless you can give us the number of persons killed and wounded. That might be within the scope of our investigation; but testimony as to the persons that were wounded is hardly within the scope of our investigation?

A. I do not know what I was subpoenaed here for. I was one of the surgeons in charge of the wounded at the West Pennsylvania hospital.

Q. State the number that were brought there wounded?

A. There were seven wounded men brought there that evening.

Q. How many soldiers?

A. Two soldiers. One of them wounded with a stone and the other sun-struck.

Q. Who were the other parties?

A. I do not know who they were. They were citizens--I do not know whether they were citizens or not. They were strangers to me.

Q. Do you know the number that were killed in that fire?

A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. You know nothing, I suppose, as to the wounded, except those that were brought to the West Penn Hospital?

A. Only just this little boy. I saw from there the attack on the round-house during the night.

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. Did you see the firing of the cars when it commenced?

A. I saw the whole of that attack.

Q. You might give us a description of that?

A. The grade is down from Thirty-third to Twenty-eighth, and the cars ran from their own gravity. When they were let go they would run. The first car came down between ten and eleven, and it was run down the grade, and when it got opposite the round-house it seemed to run off the track. You could observe it from the hospital grounds. Soon after that a whole train of cars, loaded with coke, came down the track, and struck this first one. We could hear the collision. It stopped near the round-house. They continued the passing down of fired cars from the vicinity of Lawrenceville, until I left the hospital, about two o'clock in the morning, and the cars were burning there, and the sand-house was then on fire, when I left.

Q. From your position you could not see who done the firing?

A. No, sir; but I could see in front of the hospital grounds when a car would stop, as it sometimes would in its descent, there would be people take hold of it, and push it on down towards the round-house. I observe that those who did that pushing were nearly all boys, fourteen to sixteen or seventeen years of age.

Q. Twenty-five engaged in it?

A. I do not think I saw over twenty-five at this place. I could not see where the cars were started from, I could see them just as they were passing the hospital grounds.

Q. How large a crowd was gathered there?

A. On my way to the hospital there was an immense crowd. I had to go through Liberty street, but just at the Twenty-eighth street crossing and down on the track, as you may say, Twenty-eighth to Twenty-ninth street, there was not a hundred people visible. There were a great many on the side hill looking down.

Q. Were you present on Sunday?

A. Yes, sir. I saw the burning of the Union depot and the elevator. There is one circumstance that I, perhaps, might state to the committee if it is of interest. I do not know that it is, though. On my way around through the city, I saw a great deal of the plunder being carried off, and on Gazzam's hill Sunday morning, at eleven o'clock, I saw a boy some twelve years of age who seemed to be gazing over in the direction of the railroad. I asked him what he was looking at. He said that the round-house had been burned last night and that the depot and the elevator was going to be burned to-night. I asked him how he knew that. He said his father had told him he had been out all last night was going out to-night.

Q. Did you ascertain who he was?

A. No, sir; I did not. I did not think anything of it at the time. I did not think anything of it. When it occurred I remembered then of that statement.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you notice any firing by the mob, musketry or pistols, at the troops in the round-house?

A. No, sir; I did not see any.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You do not know whether this boy's father was an employé of the Pennsylvania railroad or not, that told you that the elevator and the other buildings were to be burned?

A. No, sir; the boy was in a part of the city where it would not be likely that an employé of the company would live.

Q. You do not know who the boy was?

A. No, sir; did not pay enough attention to it at that time.

* * * * *

J. R. McCune, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Fourteenth ward, this city.

Q. What is your business?

A. I am president of the Union National Bank.

Q. Were you at the scene of the riots at any time during their progress?

A. I saw the burning--partly saw it on Sunday for the first. I was not at the scene of the riots prior to Sunday, and know very little or most nothing of my own knowledge--prior to Sunday.

Q. You may state what efforts you made in connection with others to suppress the riot on Sunday, and stop the pillaging and plundering?

A. I came down town on Sunday morning in conference with some other citizens, and thought it desirable to call a meeting of citizens. I then learned for the first time that the troops had left the city, and there were placards posted on the bulletin boards calling a meeting of citizens, I think, at twelve o'clock. I participated in that meeting, and was appointed on a committee to take such action as was deemed advisable. The committee was a large one, and adjourned to the council chamber, and it was there determined to appoint a sub-committee to visit the scene of destruction, and take whatever action seemed judicious. I think our duties were not restricted. I went with that committee, but cannot say that we effected much of anything. I believe that has been detailed to you before how the committee went up there, and got on a platform of a car, and Bishop Tuigg undertook to address the audience.

Q. Doctor Scovill's testimony in regard to that was correct?

A. So far as I saw. The doctor was immediately along side of me on the platform of the car. After leaving, there the committee was divided, and went to different points, one of which being to ascertain, if possible, if the railroad strikers were actively engaged in this burning, and we endeavored to hunt up the railroad men. We went up as far as Twentieth street, and interviewed railroad men wherever we could find them. They, I believe, universally disclaimed all participation in the riot. That is in the burning.

Q. In the destruction of property?

A. In the destruction of property. That was a point we inquired into particularly.

Q. Did they state who was engaged in the destruction of property?

A. My recollection is that they generally professed not to know. They promised to coöperate with us in efforts to stop the burning.

Q. Did they do that--did they coöperate?

A. I don't know how much they did in that direction. There was some of them came down to attend the meeting, and this committee reported to an adjourned meeting that was to be held, I think, at four o'clock in the afternoon. The committee returned, and stated briefly what had been done and the condition of affairs, and I think we suggested that there would be a large increase of the police force. The mayor was present, and the committee authorized him to employ as many policemen as they could get--five hundred if he could obtain them--and a number of gentlemen present pledged themselves for the payment of this police force.

Q. At four o'clock Sunday afternoon?

A. Yes; four o'clock Sunday afternoon, and there was also a sort of militia force organized, of which Mayor McCarthy told you this morning.

Q. This suggestion of employing five hundred police was made to the mayor, was it?

A. I don't remember from where the suggestion emanated. It seemed to be the unanimous wish of those present.

Q. Did you so inform the mayor of that week?

A. Yes; and the question was raised as to how they were to be paid, and quite a number of citizens there pledged themselves for the payment, and the mayor was asked if that would be satisfactory, and he said it was entirely so.

Q. Did the mayor issue any call, or any command, or summon any posse of citizens as a police force?

A. Immediately a call was made for citizens to unite with the mayor, and I think there was quite a force congregated together, and started to procure such arms as were available.

Q. That was the request made, was it?

A. I am not able to recall whether the request was made by the mayor. It was suggested from some source, and matters were done under a good deal of excitement. There was not much formality about that.

Q. Doctor Donnelly's command was organized at that time?

A. Donnelly had charge of it. An hour afterwards or so there were some others that repaired to the Duquesne depot. There are others can tell you more about that than I. The next morning I was at the mayor's office, when a sort of militia force was organized.

Q. How large a force was organized?

A. It is difficult to tell; I could only guess at it. There were, perhaps, two hundred.

Q. Composed of citizens?

A. Of citizens; yes, sir.

Q. Under whose command.

A. I think General Negley was made commander of them, temporarily. There was a telegram there from the burgess of Elizabeth, stating that a party of roughs or rioters were en route to the city by steamer, and this force went down there to meet them when they would arrive. Also during that morning there was a meeting of citizens convened, for the purpose of organizing a committee of safety. This meeting, held on Sunday, did not organize any permanent committee. On Monday there was a permanent committee organized, of which I was a member.

Q. How large a crowd was there during the day Monday, or was there any?

A. On Monday?

Q. Yes?

A. The streets were full of people. I think, possibly, I never have seen so many people in the streets, unless it was during the time of an immense convention.

Q. What class of people?

A. I could not undertake to say, sir. Seemed to me that everybody was there. There were comparatively few of them that I was acquainted with.

Q. This body of rioters, were they in force on Monday?

A. Thought there were a great many very rough looking characters on the street--that I had never seen so many.

Q. Were there any attacks made upon any property or persons, on Monday?

A. No, sir; not that I remember. I cannot re-call any.

Q. Were the business places open on Monday, throughout the city?

A. I think a good many were opened--some were closed. There was a great deal of fear expressed.

Q. Among the citizens?

A. Yes; the committee of public safety began immediately to organize a military force. They organized a force of infantry, and they organized a company of horsemen, and got them under way as rapidly as possible.

Q. To patrol the streets?

A. Yes; to go outside of the city limits, and endeavor to guard against any turbulence anywhere, or any organizations that might show themselves.

Q. Were you up about the railroad works any, during Monday?

A. I think I was not. No, sir; I was not at the scene of the burning on Monday.

Q. This crowd in the streets on Monday, did it seem to be just a promiscuous crowd everywhere on the streets, or was there an organization of men--roughs about?

A. There was nothing to enable me to determine that there was an organization.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Was the crowd attracted by curiosity to see what was going on?

A. It was largely so, I think--attracted by curiosity, although it seemed to me there were an immense number of strange faces amongst them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You had no trouble in preserving the peace after Monday morning?

A. The peace was preserved on Monday without trouble, because I think these organizations had a very wholesome effect. The committee of public safety then formally instructed the mayor to increase his police force. He had instructions to employ twenty additional men, and under that authority he did employ, I think, one hundred and thirty men, whom the committee on public safety paid.

Q. For how long a time did he keep these men employed?

A. A portion of them were discharged about ten days thereafter--perhaps in all the half of them--and the remainder were continued for forty or fifty days. I would state that the committee of public safety and other citizens united in a paper, whereby they pledged themselves to pay all expenses that might be incurred by this committee, without any limit whatever, and that we subsequently obtained specific subscriptions to the amount of about fifty thousand dollars.

Q. How much of that was expended in the operation?

A. I can't say positively, but a small portion of it, probably fifteen thousand dollars.

Q. And after the organization of that committee of public safety, the peace was preserved from that time forward?

A. Yes, sir; how much the committee had to do with it is a question I could not determine.

Q. Did the people unite heartily in carrying out the suggestions made by that committee?

A. Yes; I think the committee had no cause of complaint. They had the sympathy and coöperation of the community generally.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You know nothing of the causes leading to the riot?

A. Nothing; no, sir; nothing but what is patent to everybody. I had no special facilities for learning anything. Everybody had their own opinion. I was not on the ground prior to Sunday.

Q. Do you know whether this mounted citizens' police force went out of the city, and patrolled the streets leading to the city?

A. That is my impression. I was not with them, but I think they did.

Q. Along the lines of the Pan Handle railroad.

A. Yes; we were a good deal concerned about the Pan Handle road. There were rumors come to the committee that there was very imminent danger of them burning the cars in the tunnel and other points out the Pan Handle road. I think, however, you can glean the facts pertaining to the committee better from Mr. Johnson, who is chairman of that committee. He has examined the minutes, I think, and has charged his memory with the details.

Q. Do you know whether any men were arrested or not that attempted to come in on that road by this citizens' police force?

A. No, sir; my opinion is very vague on that point.

Q. Was not there some disturbance on Monday on some of your streets here in the city?

A. There was a good deal of turbulence all over the city. I remember one instance now. The committee was sent after some guns, and while they were being brought down Market street there was a halt made. They stopped the gun carriages, and somebody went up and boldly spiked the guns, which created a good deal of excitement for the moment.

Q. The crowd spiked the guns?

A. Spiked the guns.

Q. How many guns?

A. There were three of them, I think.

Q. What battery did they belong to?

A. I can't answer. I am not up on military affairs.

Q. Was not there some disturbance on Fifth avenue there that day?

A. There were disturbances, more or less, in many parts of the city. The city was disordered that day--decidedly disorderly.

Q. There was an effort made by the citizens generally, to suppress everything of that kind on Monday?

A. Yes; there was a decided effort made by the citizens.

Q. An organized effort?

A. Yes; the committee of public safety, organized for this special purpose. They acted promptly and vigorously.

Q. Do you know of any disturbance at Limerick, south side, on that day?

A. I cannot recollect it.

Q. Do you know of any disturbance on Second Avenue park?

A. No, sir; I cannot of my own personal knowledge--I cannot recollect.

* * * * *

Robert Atchison, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 873 Penn avenue.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Engineer.

Q. On what railroad?

A. P.R.R.

Q. Pennsylvania?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you in the employ of the Pennsylvania Company now?

A. I am.

Q. Were you in July last, the 19th of July?

A. I have been employed on the road for seventeen years, in the capacity of engineer. If it is necessary, I will just state what I know about it, if it is in evidence. On the morning of Thursday, 19th July, I think it was, the trains were all to be run double. I took out the first train. I was called at three o'clock in the morning, to take out the first train, and there was no trouble then, nor knew of any trouble. We went out--went to Derry.

Q. What hour did you leave?

A. I left at three o'clock in the morning, and got to Derry about seven, and returned. Coming back, before I got to the city, the other side of Walls station, I remarked to my fireman, that I thought there must be a wreck on the road. We had met no freights. We should have met some east of that, several miles. But paid no attention much to it, until I came in sight of Walls station. The accommodation is due there, then, twelve-forty, and I just remarked that if there was a wreck, I suppose they could run the accommodation round, as they often did, in such cases. When I came down--the conductor lives just a little way below--he got on my engine and rode down with me, and I asked him what was the matter, there was nothing out. He just made the remark, that the boys would not let anything go out this morning. That is the first intimation I had of anything, or I believe even the crews. They did not seem to know anything about it.

Q. What time was that?

A. It was about twelve-forty. We came on to the city unmolested by any person, until we came to Torrens station, that is a little way from East Liberty. There was a crowd there, but didn't seem to be doing anything--nobody was doing anything. We had some work to do, to put some cars in or something, and I just remarked to the crowd that was on the other side, says I, "What's going on here?" Says one, "Lots of fun." Mr. Garrett, the train master, gave the signal to me, and we went on, and came down to Twenty-eighth street, and what astonished me more than anything else was the crowd that was there, and the few people that I knew. They were strangers to me. At Twenty-eighth street I could not recognize but a few of our own men. They were all strangers to me. I passed on down with the train, took it to the west end of the yard, and put it away, and backed up my engine to the round-house, and put it in the round-house, and went home. Then I hadn't had any dinner--it was nearly three o'clock. I went home to dinner, and I didn't come up that afternoon, I don't think, again. I was up the next day around, but there was nothing going out, and the way we were running--some one remarked to me, I could not tell who it was--says he, "Go ahead, you can go in, but you can't go out." Says I, "Never mind, it is not my turn to go out."

Q. Were you put on Friday?

A. Yes; I was about.

Q. Was you ready to take out your train?

A. I was ready, and came up there on Friday. One of the officers remarked to me, there was nothing going out. It seemed to be this way: that if they got a train ready and the engine, there was no crew, and if you got a crew, there was no engine or anything else there. Some of the officers remarked to me that the Philadelphia soldiers were coming in, and everything would go on then as usual. I think I went home, and I didn't come back again that night. In the morning--Saturday morning, six o'clock--I was sent for to come up and go out. I believe before I had my breakfast. As soon as I got breakfast I went out, but I didn't see nothing for me to go out on, and I stood around there until eleven o'clock on Saturday, I think eleven or twelve, and I then just remarked to the foreman--I think it was the foreman, in the round-house--that I was going down home, and that if they wanted me, to send a watchman down to me, I would be at home--I would not be away from home. I said to my family, I believed I would go to bed and take some sleep, for I might have to come out to-night. I suppose it was fortunate for me I was not up in the crowd at the time of the shooting. I might have been there.

Q. Were you ready at all times to take out your train?

A. Provided everything had been all right I would. I would not like the idea of starting out there on Sunday morning. I didn't think I would like to take out a train then.

Q. Thought there was too big a crowd to get through?

A. I didn't feel like it.

Q. You were ready to go if the track was clear?

A. Yes; oh, yes.

Q. Had you heard, prior to your information at Walls, anything about the strike?

A. Never had the least intimation, because I do not think it was a pre-arranged matter at all. It did not seem to me that anybody seemed to know. No; I knew nothing about it, and nobody else seemed to know anything about it. The order was given on Wednesday, I think, that all trains would be run double from Thursday. That seemed to be a kind of sticker on some of them. They didn't care much whether they started or not, and some of them that morning, on the eight-forty train, refused to go out. They didn't care whether they went out or not, and just quit.

Q. There had been no pre-arranged plan for a strike to take place at that time?

A. Not that I had ever heard of.

Q. Had there been any arrangement made for a strike at or near that time?

A. Not to my knowledge. Not among the engineers, or so far as I know.

Q. Did you know of the existence of what was called the Trainmen's Union?

A. I did not at that time.

Q. Had no knowledge of that?

A. Had no knowledge nor no idea of anything of the kind going on.

Q. Had you talked with the conductors or brakesmen--had intercourse with them?

A. Oh, yes; there was never one of them mentioned anything of the kind to me, nothing of the kind at all. In fact, I don't have as much intercourse with the trainmen on the road as we did formerly when they had no caboose. Of late years they have been running cabooses, and they generally congregate there themselves.

Q. Engineers congregate more on their engine?

A. Yes; all the time train men go back in the caboose.

Q. You have an organization among the engineers?

A. There is an organization existing.

Q. Is that for engineers especially?

A. Especially, yes.

Q. Was there any talk of that kind in that organization that you know of--of striking?

A. Not a particle, not at the time.

Q. During the progress of the depredations or burning on Sunday were you present?

A. I was; I live close by.

Q. What class of men were engaged in active arson and destruction of property--burning?

A. It appears to me the roughest class of people I ever saw. They appeared to be all strangers to me. I was present when the alarm of fire was struck. I was at the corner of Twenty-sixth street, right opposite the round-house, where the soldiers were. I was coming down, I guess it was ten o'clock or near eleven, and the firemen responded to the alarm, and came up Penn avenue a little above my house, and they was stopped by the crowd. They told them they could not go any further. I was across the street. I heard one man say, "I will shoot the horse, and if you undertake to go, I will shoot you." They ran across the street, and came right beside me, and I heard them say they would have them out of there if they would have to burn them out. I just said, said I, "my God, men, don't set anything on fire here, you will burn it all up," and the answer he made was, "Go to hell, you son of a bitch." That was the very words he made use of. I thought the least I could say was the best, as I was by myself.

Q. Were there any railroad men engaged during the day Sunday?

A. I didn't see one railroad man to my knowledge, not an employé of the Pennsylvania railroad.

Q. Men that had been discharged, did you see any of that kind?

A. I did not see any of the kind.

Q. What did you, in connection with other railroad men, do to try and stop this?

A. We did not do very much, for we could not. It seemed as though everybody was intimidated, and felt himself afraid to undertake to do anything. I did, I know, as one by myself. I do not think, in a crowd of men, it would have been useless to try to stop the burning at nine o'clock in the morning.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Sunday morning. The whole yard was in flames.

Q. Did you have any communication with the committee that was sent up from Harrisburg?

A. I did; I believe I did.

Q. State what that was?

A. General Brown came to me in the morning--about five o'clock.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Sunday morning; and said to me--he wanted to know where this committee of railroad men was. I told him that I did not know where it was, but, says I, maybe I could find some of them. If we could get past Twenty-sixth street we might get some of them; but you can't pass through, they are shooting us there. Says he, tell them to come down to the Union depot, that I am authorized to give the men what they ask. There was a party went down there, and they could not find General Brown or any one else.

Q. Who was it went down?

A. I went down for one, and I didn't mind who else went down, it was impossible to get one of that committee, because they were scattered all through the city.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you on this committee of safety or any sub-committee, appointed by them, to go and confer with the strikers at any time.

A. No, I do not think--I think we went down. There was a committee of safety come up there, and I think Captain McMunn and myself and some of our ward boys, several of us, went down.

Q. As railroad men?

A. As railroad men, we went down. I got into the crowd down here, right below the elevator there, tried to find the leading man of the citizens' committee, and they got to shooting, and the crowd ran down there. There was a tremendous crowd there, and carried us along with them. I do not think there was any use to try to do anything at all.

Q. You said you would not like to have attempted to get out with that train on Saturday?

A. No; I would not.

Q. Did you apprehend any danger from any one?

A. None. I would not have apprehended any danger, I think, from anybody but from outsiders.

Q. Not from the railroad men?

A. Not from the railroad men. I did not think that they would interfere with me.

Q. Did you hear any threats of violence from the railroad men or engineers or any railroad strikers?

A. No; not to me at all.

Q. From any one else?

A. I did from outsiders--remarks--but I didn't know who they were--that the first man that would attempt to go out had better hunt his coffin.

Q. You saw the handling of cars and engines by the rioters during the destruction of property there in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street and at the depot--did these men handle the cars and engines as if they had been accustomed to handling cars and engines?

A. I didn't see anybody handling an engine. After the soldiers went into the round-house, I never went up near the place, that is, further than going up some of the side streets to look over the burning. All the engines were further up, at Twenty-eighth street. I was not up there.

Q. You saw none of the mob taking engines and running them on the track?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see them handling the cars and switches?

A. I did not.

Q. You were speaking of an association of engineers. Is that the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any coöperation or action between that association and the Trainmen's Union at any time that you know of?

A. I do not think there was any of any account?

Q. If there was, you would know it?

A. I believe I should know it. There was a disposition on the part of all the men, when the strike had occurred, to stand out for their ten per cent. That was their object.

Q. That is, you mean all the trainmen, and engineers as well?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers?

A. I was. I believe the order in this vicinity has disappeared.

Q. That association was got up for protection--a charitable institution for those that were connected with it?

A. Nothing to interfere with the railroad.

Q. If there had been any coöperation between the Trainmen's Union, or any connection between them and your association, you would likely know something about it.

A. Yes; there was this, so far as the ten per cent. went. That I believe was all after the burning. I do not think there was any connection with it before.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was there any coöperation or pre-arranged plan to strike for the purpose of securing this ten per cent.?

A. No, sir; not at all. The trouble had originated not until after there had been a committee to see Mr. Scott; but the thing had dropped, and I had heard nothing of it from the time that committee reported, and I do not remember the report they made, either.

Q. Was there a general dissatisfaction and complaint on the part of the railroad employés on account of this reduction of pay?

A. There was. That seemed to be a great deal of the trouble. They were dissatisfied with the pay they were getting.

Q. In your opinion, did that lead to the strike and trouble here?

A. I do not think it did. No, sir; I do not think so.

Q. What was it that led to the disturbance?

A. I do not think that would lead to it, because if the committee of engineers went to see the general officers, and they didn't get satisfaction, or claimed that the business that they were doing could not pay it, the men would have waited until such time as they would. They claimed that they were in pretty close quarters financially, but as soon as business would warrant, why they would restore it.

Q. What led to immediate troubles here? What was the immediate cause?

A. Running these double trains.

Q. Double-headers, as they were called?

A. Double-headers, as we called them.

Q. Why was there less objection to running double-headers?

A. In the first place it is very disagreeable for the men, and they consider it dangerous for one thing, and in running these trains it cuts a good many of them out of employment.

Q. Reduce the force of train men, not engineers?

A. Not of engineers, of trainmen.

Q. Wherein consisted the danger of running double-headers?

A. In the first place you hold just twice as many cars, and you don't have any more men on the train to hold them. Brakemen would hold thirty-four cars with two engines, and seventeen cars with one. If these trains get started they are pretty hard to manage.

Q. Did you have these engines at the head of the trains at all times, or did you have one in the front and one in the rear?

A. At the head all the time, they consider it safer that way to run them than to run one behind. Going through these up and down grades and turning is liable to break.

Q. The only danger there was in not having the same number of brakesmen to the same number of cars as you do when you run the single train?

A. That would have helped the matter considerably, I believe.

Q. There was no other danger?

A. There was no other danger.

Q. Could not that danger have been counteracted by having less trains?

A. They would not think that was safer.

Q. Would not there have been less danger by taking two trains and making one, and running them on the track--less danger of collisions than if you had to have two trains instead of one?

A. There is more danger running this double train than the single trains, because they are harder to manage.

Q. You can handle a train more readily?

A. Yes; check it up quicker. You can check a train much quicker--a light train than a heavy one--and they are less liable to break in the dark and in the fog. In the fog you can't tell whether they are broken or not. They might stop, and the hind part run into the front part, which has been frequently done.

* * * * *

J. F. Cluley, _sworn_.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Where do you live?

A. Centre avenue, city.

Q. What is your business?

A. Painter.

Q. Go on and state what you know in relation to the riots of last July?

A. On the Saturday, probably about half-past two, I went up to the depot and went in, and the Philadelphia soldiers were about starting out. I got up to Twenty-eighth street probably half an hour before they did. Everything was quiet there--at Twenty-eighth street. There was a company keeping the street clear--a company of troops.

Q. Who was that company commanded by?

A. I do not know. It looked like a cavalry company on foot from the trimmings on their clothes. As soon as the Philadelphia troops came up the mob closed round, and commenced hooting and hollering.

Q. Go on and state what took place there?