Chapter C: N. Farr, recalled (2)

A. Well, I cannot say that I could answer that direct. They said, in substance, that those men who did not assist them, that were working men, that did not go into the strike with them, were blacklegs, and all that kind of thing; appeared to have a good deal of feeling against those that wanted to work, and did not go in with them to the strike.

Q. Complaining against those who would not join them?

A. Yes, sir.

* * * * *

Thomas Reckord, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I resided, at that time, at the bridge--the toll bridge.

Q. In July last.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was your business then?

A. Toll-gate keeper.

Q. At what bridge?

A. Harrisburg bridge--toll bridge.

Q. The bridge across the Susquehanna?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. On Monday, the 23d day of July, state whether there was any crowd coming there to cross the bridge from the city?

A. Yes; I was sitting in the office, reading a paper. All at once I heard a great noise, and I looked out the window of the house, and I saw a large crowd coming up, I suppose two or three hundred.

Q. What time of the day was it?

A. I can hardly tell you what time of the day it was. I think it was towards noon, or some place about that time.

Q. Go on and tell us all the facts about?

A. Well. I jumped off my seat and ran out of the door. I saw they were making for the bridge. I run and shut the gate. There was a great part of them got over before I got that accomplished. I shut the gates and kept a great many this side. Those that got in passed over the bridge while I was there. There was another crowd came and insisted upon going over, and I wouldn't unlock the gates. They told me they would break the gates. Very well, said I, you can do so. There was one man--a young man--he was half grown--a great part of them were young men--he went and took hold of the picket-gate to break it open. I caught him by the collar of the neck and threw him back. I said I would throw him in the river if he didn't stop. He wanted to know what I had to do about it. I told him I would show him. I kept him at bay there for a long time. Finally there was a man came there--I cannot recollect his name now--and told me the mayor had sent him up there to tell me to open the gate. I used the remark that the mayor had nothing to do with that--I wouldn't open the gate--this was individual property, and it had nothing to do with the matter at all. I wouldn't open the gates. Some of them jumped over--some of them jumped over the gates, and finally this man insisted that the mayor had sent him. I wouldn't believe him at first. Finally he said it was so, and there was two or three men stood at the gate there and begged me to leave them over. Says I, if I open the gates they will crowd in. They said they wanted to go over, and would help me to shut the gates. These men were standing there waiting to get over, and they promised to help. I unlocked the gate, and after I unlocked it these men came in and tried to help me shut it, but the crowd pressed so hard, by the time I got the latch in they sprung the gate and threw it off its hinges--it is just set on hinges--and the gate fell over, then they all rushed in. I had no more command over them at all. They all rushed right through.

Q. How large a crowd went through?

A. I suppose there was a couple of hundred went over. I may say so by the looks of them.

Q. Did they say what they were going for?

A. Yes; some of them.

Q. What did they give as their object?

A. Their object was to go over there for some soldiers--over there to bring them over in safety. These soldiers over at Fairview--they wanted to come over, and they sent a man over to get some one to protect them.

Q. Did you see the man the soldiers sent over?

A. No; I didn't. He might have paid his toll, and went over.

Q. Do you know of your own knowledge that they sent a man over?

A. No, sir: I don't.

Q. You only get that from the crowd?

A. Hearsay.

Q. Did they come back?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. State the facts?

A. When they came back they had soldiers in the center, they flanked all around, and came in a kind of square across the bridge.

Q. How many soldiers were there?

A. There might have been twenty or thirty. I really don't recollect. I knew at the time. It has passed my memory. Something near that. They were in the center of these--fetched them over with music.

Q. What kind of music did they have?

A. Drum and fife, I think it was.

Q. How large a crowd was surrounding the soldiers?

A. There was not so many surrounding them as they came over. There was a kind of square formed, and the balance was running loose around.

Q. What class of men?

A. Most of them were half grown boys and negroes.

Q. Who carried the arms?

A. Some few boys carried some of the soldier's arms, and the rest the soldiers carried themselves.

Q. Did you try to prevent them going through the gates when they came back?

A. Oh! no.

Q. You allowed them to pass?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. No one seemed to be commanding this crowd or to lead the mob--no one seemed to be leading the mob or controlling it?

A. No one, individually. There was some men there that used very hard expressions toward me, sitting on the bench, and they threatened to mash my head, and everything else.

Q. Was there any one giving commands to the mob?

A. No; I didn't see any individual giving commands. They all seemed to take part in it--no one individual that I took notice.

Q. No one directed their movements?

A. No; they came up in a crowd.

Q. Did there seem to be any officers among the soldiers?

A. That is more than I can answer.

Q. You didn't see any one that from their uniform or any other emblem seemed to be officers?

A. Not that I can recollect. I don't know as there was any officers among them. I cannot recollect whether there was or not.

Q. The soldiers and the crowd were on good terms?

A. They came very quietly through, there was nothing----

Q. Did the soldiers act as if they were prisoners of war?

A. They walked very quietly surrounded by these men--went up Market street.

Q. There didn't seem to be any coercion there?

A. No, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How long was the crowd gone before they returned with the soldiers?

A. It might have been a couple of hours--fully that, I guess. There was a crowd continued there until they came back. I had to keep the gates locked all the time--the crowd was still remaining there waiting for them to come back.

* * * * *

Attorney General Lear, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You may state what facts came under your own observation in relation to the railroad riots of last July?

A. The first knowledge I had of them was on the morning of Friday, which was the 20th, I guess. I received two dispatches, brought by the same boy at the same time, one from Governor Latta and the other from Adjutant General Latta in relation to these matters. The Governor told me that he had been applied to by the sheriff of Allegheny county to assist in suppressing the riot, but he thought he had no authority, and had so answered the application. I telegraphed to him I thought he was right, there was no vacancy in the office of Governor; and the Adjutant General's dispatch was from West Philadelphia, that he was then on his way in pursuance of the clause stating that he had general authority from the Governor before he went away, &c.--I cannot tell the language of the dispatch at all. I telegraphed to him that I thought he ought to go--sent two dispatches, one to Philadelphia and Harrisburg. I believed from his dispatch that he had gone to Harrisburg. Then I was at home in Doylestown, at that time. On Monday or Sunday I got knowledge of the thing being serious. I concluded I ought to be nearer to it so that if there was anything for me to do I could do it; and I started to Philadelphia, and I got there and found a messenger at the hotel waiting to take me to West Philadelphia--with a carriage--to see Colonel Scott, who had a dispatch from the Governor, asking him to send me to meet him at the nearest point I could reach him in Pennsylvania. Colonel Scott suggested that the best place would probably be at Beaver, where Quay was. That was on Monday, the 23d, at twelve o'clock, and at half past six, the first train that went, I started to go to Beaver. I went through Harrisburg on the evening the sheriff has testified to, the 23d, and on out to Pittsburgh. All that occurred there was that I met the Governor. He came to Pittsburgh instead of stopping at Beaver. I got a dispatch that he was going on through, and I saw several committees of citizens at Pittsburgh during the day, and asked for the Governor to remain. A committee of printers and newspaper men, and a committee of bankers, who said they were in the hands then of people that might go any time into their banks and compel them to open their vaults, and a committee, of business men, men who had large numbers of hands employed, wanted me to impress upon the Governor the importance of recommending a compromise, which I didn't feel much inclined to recommend. The Governor came there that evening at seven o'clock, without having determined whether he would remain or not. I went to the train to go with him east, but he concluded--there was a committee of people there to wait upon him--and he did remain. That was seven o'clock, Tuesday evening. He remained until three o'clock the next morning. We didn't go to bed. We remained at the Monongahela house and prepared, and Mr. Quay and the Governor supervised, the proclamation that was issued from the room there, and met committees of citizens, &c., and remained up until three o'clock or half past two, and we started down to Allegheny depot. We had to go from there at that time. We found several acres of people around there in the way. They didn't disturb us. Stopped us going across the bridge to see what we were and who we were, but went on notwithstanding. We came east, and at Altoona, when we took breakfast, there were, I suppose, a thousand people around there. A crowd of that sort of people that generally constitute a riot and a mob.

Q. Demonstration at Altoona?

A. No. We had to crowd our way through to get our breakfast--the Governor, Colonel Quay, and myself. Doctor Reed was along. We got in and got our breakfast, but we had some difficulty to get there, because there was a crowd there, but they didn't disturb us. The Governor, when they came in, somebody said something to him, and he made some remarks on the platform, and they gave the Governor three cheers--after breakfast. Then we returned to Philadelphia, and made arrangements which took the Governor back. We got to Philadelphia on Wednesday, and on Thursday he returned west, and went to Pittsburgh, when he had got his military properly organized--and Mr. Quay and myself remained there, and some others of the Governor's staff, and communicated with parties in connection with the business, and to see about organizing some others--I was not concerned in that--organizing an additional military organization for the purpose of going out to the scene of the difficulty; but we remained there until Saturday morning. I received a dispatch from the Governor asking me to go and join him at Pittsburgh. I don't think he stated what he wanted me for. Yes, he did. He stated he wanted to see about what to do with certain prisoners that had been captured at Johnstown, by a regiment of regulars, under Colonel Hamilton; and I went out that afternoon, and I reached Pittsburgh about twelve o'clock at night. We went over--the first train, probably, that went in over the route that had been torn up in different places--where the old depot was, and had it torn out, that Colonel Hamilton's train, or the train his soldiers were on, was thrown off the track by the turning of the switch at Johnstown, about seven o'clock in the evening, and that he was very much injured himself--I think he had a rib or two broken--he could hardly sit down; but his men got out immediately and formed, and they picked up everybody that came about there, from that on until Monday--found some of them after daylight--were picked up and put into a car and taken to Pittsburgh, and put in the arsenal, and they had fifty-five of them there.

Q. As prisoners?

A. Prisoners, and the object of my being sent for was to see what to do with them. On Sunday I went out there, and was met by Daniel J. Worrall and the chief of police of Johnstown. He was brought along to see whether he could identify any of the dangerous or turbulent class of people of Johnstown, and I went into examination--all I could do was with the aid of eight of these policemen and Mr. Worrall, and I examined each one on oath--sixty of them, at least. The other fifteen of them were retained, because they were a little more suspicious characters, and it turned out, according to any kind of evidence that we could get--and I guess it was the fact--that they had been idlers that heard of this train being wrecked. Some of them were very innocent people, who had come there to see if they could render assistance. Some had come as idle spectators, and there was not the slightest evidence from any source that any of them had been guilty of having turned the switch, or were participants in the stoning of the train. The train had been stoned just before they got there, but none of those people were arrested until some little time afterwards, and as I concluded from the evidence I heard there, it seems most probable that the operators of the act wouldn't hardly be about looking on, just after a thing of that kind occurred, and they got out of the way. And these people, while they might have sympathized, there was nothing at all to show that they had any guilty connection with the turning of the switch. On Monday, I waited again to see about some others--we had got reports from Johnstown, saying that they were satisfied--parties who told to me that they were satisfied they were not concerned in it. Finally, from time to time they were all released, having no evidence against them whatever, and that was the principal part of my business there. It kept me there several days--maybe a week--on the train. That is all I know about that. Then there was a difficulty occurred at Scranton and I went up there, and the Governor telegraphed to me while I was there, and I went to see about what to do with some--there was an alderman up there had issued a warrant, in pursuance of the report of the coroner's inquest, I think, upon the bodies of some men who had been shot in the riot, and they had pronounced all the military, I believe, participants in what they called a murder, and I started in obedience to the dispatch the same day. I arrived there, but they had done just what I was going to recommend; they had delivered themselves up to the proper authorities, _habeas corpus_ had been issued, and the judges of the court--I think Judge Harding had them to apply. It turned out that they were either indicted, or no bills found true against them, or something of that kind. There was other difficulties of that kind occurred while we were up there, and occasionally these same police alderman--Mahon, I think his name was, in the Sixth ward of Scranton--would issue out a warrant once in awhile against certain of the military, and they would simply go and give bail, and that was the end of it. That was all the connection I had with the riots--the actual knowledge I have about it. Something about these prisoners. We found some little difficulty in keeping them up there from getting into the hands--it was evident, as the people of Scranton said, that if the warrants of this alderman were executed, and the soldiers were taken over into that Sixth ward, that is made up--if any of you know the situation of Scranton, there is a ward that is made up of miner's houses across the stream--the Lackawanna, I think likely--and they threatened if any soldier was taken over there before this alderman he would never get back alive, and they were devising ways and means to prevent any difficulty of that kind. I remained there a few days, and came back to Philadelphia, and at St. George's hotel I got an honorable discharge from military service. That is all the duties I had, except attachments, &c., which were not connected with the riot.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. I wish to ask you a question: You were consulted by Governor before he left the State, as regards his absence for any length of time, whether it was policy for him to be absent and the policy pursued in his absence?

A. He spoke to me about it. There seemed to be, as I said to him, and as appeared to him, as good a prospect of peace in this State as ever there was, and he asked me what I thought about the propriety of his leaving upon a trip of that kind, and I told him I could not see any difficulty about it. That no doubt the State would go on harmoniously and all right, that it would not be a vacating of the office of the Governor. He didn't tell me anything about that I give more attention than I otherwise would during his absence, rendering any aid I could to the other authorities, to see to things. General Latta telegraphed to me that morning I speak of, the 20th, that he had a general authority to act in the Governor's absence, when the military were required, and simply telegraphed that there was trouble on the Pennsylvania railroad. He had acted, however, before that, because he had called out the troops. I recollect pretty nearly the second dispatch sent to me to Harrisburg. They were both sent within half an hour of each other. That if the civil authorities were insufficient to suppress disturbance, to maintain the peace and call out the troops, and to communicate to the Governor if he could, and if not, to suppress the riot promptly, and we would look for the authority afterwards. That is about what he had told him, and he acted upon the general authorities which the Governor had given him.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. In your conversation with the Governor, was there anything about the probability of a strike on the Pennsylvania railroad?

A. No, sir; there was no apprehension of anything of that kind at the time at all, although it seemed to come pretty suddenly after that. There was nothing at all to indicate it--the Governor said nothing at all about that--he simply talked to me about his going out of the State to remain a length of time he would be gone. I forget now what it was, whether it would give any authority to have his office considered vacant or any ability or disability to act. I told him I thought not, that for the purpose of managing the State government, I thought it would be perfectly proper for him to go, that he was entitled to have that sort of recreation. Of course, none of us apprehended anything, except what might arise at any time, and he had taken the precaution, it seems, although I do not know that, to say to General Latta, that he should act for the purpose of sustaining the civil authority as they had done heretofore, or something of that kind, as I learned afterwards, but the Governor did not tell me that, so far as I remember now. I believe that was what the Governor did say.

* * * * *

Sheriff Jennings, recalled:

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. As you are a military man, I want to ask you a military question. Do you know anything about the movements of the military about Harrisburg and vicinity and county?

A. When I came here, I believe General Sigfried was in command, and all that I saw of the military I thought they would be first rate, and I felt confident they would be useful to me in case I should fail with the posse. He kept them in camp; there was no straggling, no drunkenness or anything of that kind, and the men acted and conducted themselves like soldiers.

Q. Good discipline?

A. Good discipline. I would say that the troops were under good command.

* * * * *

David Mumma, _affirmed_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Do you reside in the city of Harrisburg?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your profession?

A. I am a practicing attorney.

Q. State, Mr. Mumma, what knowledge you had of the conduct of the militia during the riots of last July?

A. We had no militia--no organized militia in the city until during the riots, until after the dispersal of the rioters by the sheriff's posse. A few men, two or three in number, sometimes came here in a train, evidently in order to meet their companies, and came for that purpose without organization, not more than five at one time, and the men who seemed to get up all the difficulties about the cars, immediately disarmed them and took their arms from them, and then there was no further violence exhibited to them. There were five, I think, is the highest number I saw. They had no means of resistance, as there was no organization, that was, of the military we had in the city before that.

Q. Those were men that had gathered in obedience to the call of their officers?

A. Gathered to meet their companies, came from the upper end of the county, some few from Lebanon county. They came in the trains, and they were only in squads of two or three, sometimes one alone.

Q. Were they overpowered by the mob?

A. They did not resist any, so far as I saw. Their arms were demanded, and they gave them up.

Q. How many did you see surrender their arms?

A. There may have been twenty or twenty-five, altogether.

Q. At different times?

A. At different times.

Q. Several in small squads?

A. Yes; no more than five. I did not see more than five at one time. They came from the upper end of this county. They were coming here to report.

Q. Did they surrender, because they were in sympathy, or would it have been folly for them to have resisted?

A. It would have been folly to resist, if there was any determination on the part of the men who were in the crowd to enforce the demand. I may say here, that at this time there was not much exhibition of violence. The trains were running, that is the commencement of it. They stopped none but freight trains and local passenger trains; the other trains, more especially the mail trains, were permitted to run through, and there was no violence by anybody. Everybody seemed to stand and look on, and when a train arrived, the engine and tender would immediately be boarded by about four fifths boys, and some two or three men, and the coupling would be drawn, and they would take the engine to the round-house. Shifter was allowed to run, and they would move the cars away. I may say, just here, that on inquiry, many men who were connected with the railroad shops here, men that I knew, that always said they had orders that there was a general strike pending, and they were to stop any local or freight trains, and that other trains with the mails, were to go on, and that they had no disposition to give any trouble, and frequently I was appealed to, that we should use our influence to keep the military away; that if the troops were brought on there would be violence.

Q. What class of men undertook to influence you in that direction?

A. They were men who were employés of the railroad.

Q. Railroad?

A. Railroad and other places. Our other shops were not in the matter that I know of.

Q. What class of men demanded the guns from the gathering soldiers?

A. I know but one, and he was really the principal man who took charge of the guns. He is now in the penitentiary--was convicted at our court--a man by the name of Riggle, a loafer, who does not do anything and never did a day's work when he had it. I did not see any of our men connected with the railroad demand to take any guns from the soldiers at all.

Q. It was done by the lawless class?

A. Lawless class of men, mostly strangers. I did not know them, though I know a great many of our citizens, and there was a great many strangers here that we did not know at all. In the meantime, General Sigfried had got here, and some head was put to the military part of it, and I remember of speaking to several officers not to have the men brought in the town, for fear they might be overpowered. They were all taken to the arsenal. Everybody was anxious to have the arsenal taken care of. We were constantly assured by the better class of men that the arsenal would not be interfered with unless an attempt was made to put the military in. Hence, every citizen who had any influence tried to prevail on the military officers to get the men into the arsenal without bringing them into the city, and it was so arranged. Men coming in the Lebanon Valley train got off outside of the city and marched across. They came from above, got off at Rockville, and marched across, until they had sufficient men in the arsenal to defend it, and that, I have no doubt, was a very judicious method at that time, until there was a force here to stand up against the mob, if there was any trouble.

Q. Did you have any conversation with these soldiers, after they had surrendered their arms?

A. I believe I did speak to one or two of the men. There was some men, I just said before you came, Mr. Engelbert, that they came from your town to meet their companies, and they found themselves immediately surrounded by a mob, and they had no remedy, they had to give up their arms.

Q. What reasons did they give for surrendering?

A. They said they did not see how they could make any defense or hold their arms, because they were alone, and had not found their officers, and did not know what to do.

Q. Did you find any officers?

A. Military officers?

Q. Military officers in this section of the country--on the day----

A. I cannot give dates very well--but on the day when these men were brought over from across the river, I remember that, because when I came back I was informed of the fact that they had brought some men across the river. I was driving out to some property I have out here, and at the cemetery I met a couple of boys who said there was a whole lot of Light Horses, they called them, in the town of Progress. I left the boys and thought I had better go and see. I drove out and found a portion of the company of about thirty men, cavalry, without horses, and think they had infantry--they had muskets, but I think they had their cavalry equipments. These I saw at a tavern. Shall I say how they said they came there?

Q. Yes?

A. I spoke to them, and they told me they were taken up to Altoona. They were, as they called it, run into and cut off the road, and with a large number of infantry, and they were immediately surrounded there by the mob of about two thousand persons, hooted, yelled, and used violent expressions, and occasionally, I think, throwing stones in a small way. That they were then taken out of the cars, and, while standing there, the infantry surrendered their arms. Stacked their arms, as they called it. They were kept standing quite a long while in the hot sun, until very much exhausted, and finally they were again re-loaded in a train, brought to Rockville, six miles up the river here, and then they were advised or requested to get off the train, that it was not safe for them to come into Harrisburg on account of the mob, and that they started for a walk through the country, got some refreshments from the farmers, and crossed the country, and struck this little town of Progress, two miles or two and a half miles east. They said their purpose was to strike the railroad below Harrisburg, and inquired of me whether the steel works was a good place to strike. I told them it was not desirable to strike it, nor was it a very good place, for, while the men were still doing their duty, and there was no riot, they might be in sympathy with these men, and I would not advise them to come there. I remonstrated most seriously with them not to pursue that course; but to go back to the arsenal with me, where there was about six hundred militia and infantry, and there really was no danger of any body getting hurt in any way, and that they would be protected there, and it would be very unpleasant and unfortunate if they were to go back to Philadelphia, where I believe they were from. I was asked a question whether the infantry would fight. I told them I didn't know that; but from the way things were going, and from what they told me of the surrender of half a brigade at Altoona, I would not swear that they would; but I then went to the arsenal. The arsenal is about a mile from this little town. I drove back and found Colonel Gobin, of Lebanon, was in command. Sigfried was in command, and Gobin was in command on the ground, and I told him what I had done, and asked him to get into the wagon, while I rode out to get the men to come in. We went out and had another interview with the men, and they partially promised to come in; but I told them I would send them a lot of newspapers, and so forth--they had seen no papers, and didn't know what was going on, and to what extent. I came in to take my supper, and then bought a whole lot of newspapers, and started out to take the lower route instead of the upper one, and missed that--they had just started in. I then came into the arsenal, and left them to read my newspapers, and congratulated them.

Q. How many officers were among them?

A. I think the officers were pretty much all there. I would say they were pretty much all there--the officers of the company.

Q. Were the captains and lieutenants there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they in uniform?

A. O, yes; they were all in uniform.

Q. Their uniforms--the buttons and straps were not cut off?

A. O, no; they were all in good trim. I was somewhat amused in finding them washing their feet in a trough, when I came out there, and, under the circumstances, I thought it was a little funny. It was not so much so after all. They told me the trouble they were in. I want to say just here, there was a good deal of fault found with men who didn't go through this town in a military way. I am not one of the persons who find fault with the military in that way, and a company of soldiers without any orders is a mob--is not very good shape--and I think it is better that they didn't happen to come in just at that time. They said, however, they had no commanding officer. Their general commanding was back; the first division of Philadelphia; and they had nobody to give them orders, and they didn't know what to do, or what right they would have to come at all--didn't want to come without some authority, and gave that as a reason why they didn't.

Q. Did they have arms?

A. They had their cavalry arms.

Q. Sabers and carbines?

A. Sabers and carbines--pistols.

Q. Did they have ammunition?

A. That I did not inquire into. They had their arms in the bar-room there. I did not inquire, but I presume they had ammunition.

Q. Did they tell you they had become separated from their command?

A. As I understood it, they didn't belong to the command that they were with when they got to Altoona. General Brinton was at Harrisburg, and they belonged to his division.

Q. They were going on their way to join him?

A. I suppose they were going on to Harrisburg; but at the time when all this was going on, there was no exhibition of violence in this city, simply because there was nobody interrupting or interfering with the men who were stopping trains on Saturday evening, I think. What I mean by that is, there was no violence beyond that of stopping trains--I think on Saturday evening--I think that was when the first train was stopped in the depot. Rodgers had been interrupted, and they were very tired, and there was a great number of laborers in the cars--immense number of people were in the depot, and many of them were ladies and citizens of the State, and quite an effort was made by a number of us citizens to get that train on. When these boys, as we would call them--most of them were boys--they jumped on the tender, and when the train undertook to move out, they drew the pin. I may say, on that occasion, that a number of men connected with the railroad shops here made an appeal to me and to other citizens to get this train on, that it was not the orders that the passenger trains were to be stopped. These were outside men, boys interfering with them. Had nothing to do with it. I remember that a gentleman in Harrisburg was named who makes speeches for them, and I was asked to go and see him. Mr. McCrea finally said it was not worth while--ten or twelve attempts were made--an attempt to pull the train out, and some few men were pulled off the bumpers, and I pulled a boy off and they said I would start a riot, and they finally stopped that train, and passengers got off that night sometime.

Q. I want to ask you a question or two about those soldiers you found out there at this little village. I understand that they said that their reasons for going back were, that they were not with their commander, General Brinton, and there were no division and no brigade, at Altoona, of infantry?

A. They did not give that as their reason for coming back--but, as a reason why they did not want to engage in any active service here, because they had nobody to take the command.

Q. What reasons did they give for turning back?

A. They said the infantry surrendered their arms.

Q. At Altoona?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What infantry did they refer to. It was not any of their command that surrendered?

A. No; as I understood--who commands the center district?

Q. General Beaver's command?

A. It was one of these middle divisions of the militia. It might not have been General Beaver's, but it was up there somewhere. They were simply, as I understood it, attached to the military train to carry them west, as I understood it, and then they were again ordered into a car and run back without any desire of their own, as I understand that.

Q. How far were they run back?

A. To Rockville, about six miles to Harrisburg.

Q. And then they left there?

A. They were asked to go out. If they came to Harrisburg they would be assaulted. There was another party made a much bigger circuit and came to Linglestown. There was a large number. I didn't see them myself.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you know anything about this party of soldiers that were captured across the river here?

A. At that time I was out here in the country. I only saw when I came back, that there was a number of people going out Market street, and then I heard that they had captured some soldiers, and marched them down Market street. I didn't learn anything about them.

Adjourned to meet at the call of the chairman.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

PHILADELPHIA, _Friday, March 22, 1878_.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met, at two o'clock, P.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, this city, and continued taking of testimony.

The first witness examined was:

* * * * *

Robert A. Ammon, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State where you reside?

A. In Pittsburgh, when I am at home.

Q. Where are you doing business now?

A. In the city of New York.

Q. How long have you been there?

A. Since the 31st day of December.

Q. When did you leave Pittsburgh?

A. I left Pittsburgh on the 30th day of December, on the eight o'clock train.

Q. You mean December last?

A. Yes.

Q. What business were you engaged in prior to the 19th day of July, 1877?

A. I was railroading.

Q. On what road?

A. On the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago.

Q. What position did you occupy on that road?

A. I was a freight brakeman on through freight--fast freight.

Q. How long had you been acting as a freight brakeman?

A. Nearly eleven months.

Q. Where were you on the 19th day of July, when the first disturbance occurred at Pittsburgh among the railroad employés?

A. I was on the train part of the 19th, and in the city of Pittsburgh part of the day, and in the city of Allegheny part of the day.

Q. Thursday the 19th?

A. Yes.

Q. State what you saw of the strike--when it commenced there, and what information you had about it?

A. The first knowledge I had of the strike--I went up to the oil country on the 16th or 17th--I have forgotten the date--a few days prior to strike--to take a position with a friend of mine there, who I had worked for formerly. Before I left Pittsburgh, I had heard of the strike at Martinsburg, in West Virginia, but didn't pay much attention to it, as I was acquainted with the men down there, and didn't think it amounted to a row of pins. I went on up to the oil country. It was on the 18th day of July. I believe I received a telegram from a particular friend of mine that trouble was expected in Pittsburgh, and that he would like me to come down.

Q. Where were you when you received that telegram?

A. At Parker City, Armstrong county.

Q. Who sent you the telegram?

A. A railroad employé.

Q. Give us his name?

A. No; I would rather not.

Q. Very well, go on with the history?

A. He wanted me to answer quick, but I didn't answer the telegram, so I got another telegram to come down that night, sure, and I did so. I came down.

Q. To Pittsburgh?

A. Yes.

Q. What time did you arrive there?

A. Seven-thirteen, I think it is. We got in on time that morning.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. The 19th?

A. Yes, I think so--the morning of the strike. I have forgotten the date. I met some of the boys on jumping off the train, and they told me what they were going to do, and asked me to go along with them; but I refused to do that, and told them I didn't think it was any of my affair at all--that, so far as the union men were concerned, I would stay with them, but I wouldn't go to the office of the superintendent of the road with them, because I was not an employé of the road. I had been discharged before that.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What did they tell you they were going to do?

A. That they were going to strike.

Q. How many of them?

A. That they were all going to strike. Some friends of mine met me there, when I came down on the train.

Q. How many of those men met you?

A. I cannot say. There may have been half a dozen or a dozen of them.

Q. What class of men? What position did they hold on the railroad?

A. They were conductors and brakemen.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were there any engineers?

A. I think there were two or three engineers with them, from the Connellsville division of the Baltimore and Ohio road. I stayed there, and talked with them a while, and then went over to Allegheny. I got my breakfast and fooled around the house with my wife and baby for about an hour, and then went to bed. I was tired, as I had been up talking with the conductor of the train all the night before. After I went to bed they came over and knocked at the door, and asked my wife if I was in. She said yes, but that I was in bed. They then said that they wanted to see me, and she said they couldn't, for I was asleep. So they went away, but came back again, in the course of an hour. I heard the noise down stairs, and asked what the matter was, and she said that they wanted me to come out, that they were going out on a strike; but I refused to go with them, and gave my reasons for refusing to go.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What were those reasons?

A. These men at the house were members of the Trainmen's Union, but two or three of them I considered scabs, and didn't want to have anything to do with them. A strike was to take place on the 27th of June, when some of those men were instrumental in getting up a rumpus in the Trainmen's Union, and I didn't want to have anything to do with them. I went back to bed again, and I think I must have slept until quarter past two o'clock when five brakemen and two conductors came up to the house and told my wife that they wanted to see me. She came up and called me, and I said it is all right, if they are going to strike I would be there. They went away, and I turned over in bed, and was just going to take another nap, when my wife called and said, Bob, they are going to put No. 15 engine on the siding. I jumped up out of bed, and looked out of the window, and I could see them putting the engine in on the side track. So I then jumped into my clothing as quick as I could, and just as I got to the door five or six of them were there, and they said they wanted me to come quick, that the mayor was coming with twenty-five police. It is just a stone's throw from my house to the track, and my wife had something ready to eat, and I just swallowed a bite and went out on the track. I saw the engine standing there, and the chief of police and about twenty-five police. I jumped up on the engine, when he told me to get off the engine. I told him I wouldn't do it, and I wanted to know why I should, I told him he had no authority. Then an order was given to arrest me, but Mr. Ross, was a neighbor of mine and I told him I was a quiet, orderly citizen, and that I refused to be arrested; that I had not been guilty of any breach of the peace as I saw; but he said, Bob, you had better get off the engine, when I said I wouldn't be put off, but as the dispatcher instructed me to get off the engine I got off. I then started down to the lower end of the yard. Before I got down there the dispatcher asked me what I was going to do, and I said I was going down to see the fun. He said, you are not, you are going down to countenance the strikers. I said, Mr. Ross, I am not. He said, you are in sympathy with them, and I said I am, but I would not say one word to them. So I went down there, and got in the midst of them, and with that the chief of police and twenty-five policemen were told to disperse the men there. They wanted the men dispersed. The police commenced to circulate pretty free among the boys, and I said it was not right, and jumped up on a box car and called for them to come over to me. They all came. I saw Mayor Philips, of Allegheny, there, and they cried out to me to tell him just what they were there for, and who they were, and I did so. I explained to the chief of police and the mayor who they were and what they were going to do.

Q. What time was that?

A. About two-twenty.

Q. Thursday or Friday afternoon?

A. That was Friday. I have not got the date.

Q. You say two-twenty?

A. Yes.

Q. All this occurred on Friday?

A. Yes; all this occurred on Friday.

Q. At the Fort Wayne and Chicago depot?

A. Yes.

Q. Go on.

A. The police didn't disperse them. They couldn't get the train out, and they started to run the engine back into the round-house.

Q. Who is Mr. Ross?

A. The dispatcher of the Fort Wayne road, and Mr. Ross is the chief of police.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. He is a brother?

A. No; he is no relation to him at all. That afternoon two or three sections of freight came in, and some of us jumped up on the cars and told the boys what we were doing, and they all came right with us. They stored everything away--put everything in good shape.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What do you mean by storing things away?

A. Putting things away compactly on the tracks. To go back now to Mayor Phillips. I read his statement in the Pittsburgh _Dispatch_. As soon as I jumped down off the box car, Mayor Phillips sent one of his police officers over to me, who said that he would like to see me. I told him it was all right, and I walked over to where he was and spoke to him. He said that he had heard everything I had said, and I asked him if he had any fault to find with it, and he said no. I believe I told him just what we intended to do, and that he should not be alarmed about our destroying property or the safety of the city or anything of that kind. That we intended to strike and were going to strike, and thought that we had a right to strike. I asked him if I had been guilty of any breach of the peace, one way or the other, and he told me no, and that as long as I did not do anything worse, that no one could arrest me, and that I should resist if any one did attempt to arrest me. Before he went away he told me that he would leave that portion of Allegheny in my charge. Several of the boys heard what was said, and they repeated it to the others, and they told the mayor that anything I said would be carried out. I never saw Mayor Phillips after that.

Q. Who stood by during that conversation with Mayor Phillips--anybody?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you name any of the parties?

A. I would rather not, for this reason, there is an indictment hanging against me in Allegheny county, and I wrote to my attorney about this matter, and he told me that he did not want me to say anything that would have any bearing on my trial. These men I have subpoenaed as witnesses, and they are working on the road now.

Q. Go on for the present?

A. We got everything into as good shape as possible. Wherever we could get hold of the wires we used them.

Q. Do I understand you to say that you took charge of the telegraph office.

A. No; but we telegraphed wherever we could wire--we used the telegraph. They had got orders not to allow any messages to go over the wires from actual or intended strikers anywheres.

Q. Go on and relate from that time what occurred during the progress of the strike?

A. I would sooner answer questions than tell you. I cannot give the story in full, and I do not want to give it to you half. So far as I am individually concerned, I would not care; but there are other men interested, and I would not want to implicate them.

Q. How large was the crowd on Friday afternoon, when Mayor Phillips was at the depot?

A. I should judge there was in the neighborhood--railroad men there--a hundred, and two or three times as many citizens.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. On Friday?

A. Yes.

Q. Did any freight cars leave the depot or arrive at the depot that night--Friday night?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you allow any freight trains to go out after that time?

A. We did.

Q. How many?

A. None went, but we allowed them to go if they could get the men. I told Mayor Phillips distinctly, that if they could get scabs enough to go on them that I would guarantee that any man who would scab it over the road would not be hurt.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What do you mean by a scab?

A. I consider a scab when a set of men combine themselves together for a certain purpose--when a man goes back on his obligations, or, in other words, if a man will work for less wages than his fellow men, and preach before going out on a strike that he will stand up for those wages.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You call those scabs?

A. Yes.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Do you mean non-union men?

A. Yes; but it is not necessary that a man should be a non-union man to be a scab. What I call a scab is a man that will take an oath and go back on that oath--perjure himself.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You mean belong to a union and go back on the order?

A. Yes; but I say it is not necessary that a man should belong to a union. I mean a man that will turn around and work for less money.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Do I understand you to say that you were willing to let trains go out if they could get the men to run them?

A. Yes; I stated that distinctly, and others there heard it.

Q. Was any attempt made to start trains?

A. They called on every man on the road, and every man refused to go out.

Q. Did you or the party with you interfere with trains going out in any way?

A. No.