Chapter C: L. Jackson, sworn (2)

A. Yes; I will explain a little matter of that character. General Negley had his head-quarters in Lafayette hall, and I think it was on Tuesday noon I had left the Chamber of Commerce rooms to go to my dinner, and I noticed a squad of probably sixty men, about as rough looking chaps as I had ever laid eyes on, going through some military motions on Wood street. I saw General Negley on the opposite corner, and I asked him the question whether he was feeding a lot of tramps. We were paying the expense of feeding them. Says he, "You are about right. We are mustering those fellows out." He had taken under his command all that would offer, and he had to sift them out afterwards. He said these he had sifted out, and he was going to muster them out--going to pay them a dollar a piece and tell them "go." The night previous he discovered that some of these men had been among the rioters. They were regular tramps, undoubtedly, and he had these men arrested and sent to the lockup, and found that they had been among the rioters, and these others were undoubtedly tramps of the same character. The city was infested with them at that time.

Q. These men had been armed by your committee, without knowing what class of men they were?

A. General Negley had placed arms in the hands of the men under his control.

Q. Some of them had turned out to be some of the rioters?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As soon as it was discovered----

A. As soon as it was discovered, those he knew to be rioters he had arrested, and sent to the lockup. The others were picked out by their appearance, and he had them mustered out.

Q. Did you keep any men in these commands you knew were among the rioters?

A. None we knew of. General Negley was very particular in regard to them. My own knowledge in reference to tramps was brought out on Sunday, the day of the riot. I wanted to come to town to see what was going on, and my family persuaded me to remain at home for a double reason. They were not very far from the stock-yards, which were threatened by fire, and the hotel out there, and another reason for my remaining at home was the great number of tramps, that for some days before had been coming along the road and getting food. East Liberty was a great camping ground for these tramps.

Q. Were there more than the usual number of those tramps?

A. A great many more than usual. At that time I did not connect the fact of the unusual number of tramps with the riots.

Q. What direction did they go?

A. Heading towards the city invariably.

* * * * *

J. L. Bigham, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I now reside in Allegheny.

Q. Are you a member of the National Guard?

A. Yes, sir; I am captain of the Nineteenth regiment, commanding company G, of that regiment.

Q. Were you with your command on the 21st of July?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. State what orders you heard given by General Brown, at the transfer station, in reference to the regiments disbanding?

A. General Brown came in, I suppose, about eleven o'clock. There was some consultation between him and the colonels--Colonel Howard and Colonel Gray. There was some move talked about. I came down and asked Colonel Howard what was to be done, and he said he didn't know, and in a few moments General Brown came up, and directed him to have his arms and equipments concealed in the building, where the mob would not get them when they came in, and dismiss his men there in the sheds, and directed them to find their way home the best way they could, each man for himself.

Q. That was done, was it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was done by you and by the balance of the regiment as to re-assembling?

A. I went home that night. The next morning when I got up--I had breakfast about eight o'clock--everything was on fire then. I got my lieutenant to come out and hunt up some of the men, and sent for my sergeant to have the armory open, and went over to the Union depot to see what was to be done. I saw General Brown there, and asked him if he would allow the regiment to be re-assembled and let us go out to protect the fire department. I got information that the mob had stopped the fire department from work. He says: No, it will exasperate the mob. I saw General Latta, and made the same request of him; he first said our regiment had not behaved well the day before, and there was no use in re-assembling us, and finally he said he would not take the responsibility--refused to allow us to re-assemble and go out. I went from there down to see the adjutant, and told him what occurred, and I understand that he went up by some direction of the colonel, and asked for orders to the same effect. That evening Mayor Philips organized the citizens, and made arrangements to go down and protect one of the lower bridges there. Part of my men were in that, and partly citizens. There were twenty of my muskets used there. I was down at the bridge when Colonel Howard came there, about one o'clock in the morning, and ordered me to re-assemble and report for duty at nine o'clock. I left there, and started men out to order the other men to report, and reported shortly after nine o'clock with a portion of my men, and got the other men gathered by eleven, and we were on duty from that time, continuously, until we were dismissed.

Q. Had the regiment re-assembled as a regiment?

A. They re-assembled as a regiment on Monday morning, and were used in suppressing several disturbances that occurred on Monday.

Q. How many men were together on Monday?

A. I suppose about a hundred men. When the regiment came together, Captain McFarland was not with us. He had been assembled earlier than the rest of the regiment, and was sent up to Second avenue park here, where there was some disturbance, and was kept moving about. I, myself, had only about sixteen men. I and a part of Captain Batchelor's company and a part of Captain Archibald's were taken down to Limerick, where there had been an attack made on some cars. We went down there and came back, and when we came back, the regiment was re-assembled as a regiment. The balance of Captain Bachelor's company and Captain Gordon's company. He had been operating by scattered detachments until near two o'clock.

Q. You remained here until the arrival of the Governor with troops from the east?

A. We remained until I think the night of the 21st of July, when we left for Scranton.

Q. How many men did you have when you left for Scranton?

A. I do not how many, exactly, sir. I think thirty-six men with me, and I think our companies averaged about that--seven companies on duty.

Q. Something over two hundred, then?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does the regiment number when all the men are present?

A. We had only six companies, of about thirty-five or thirty-six men. There should be forty men to each company. There were one or two companies that ran about fifty men, but usually the companies did not run over forty. We considered turning out thirty-six men as a pretty full turnout.

Q. Were the men obedient--did they perform their duty?

A. I had no trouble. None of my men refusing to obey orders. Two or three of them deserted. I had two of them in jail for it afterwards. There was no disobedience of orders.

* * * * *

Colonel Robert Monroe, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State where you live, if you please?

A. In Allegheny City.

Q. What is your business?

A. Boiler manufacturer.

Q. I do not know what point you are called to testify to, but you may go on and state?

A. I could not say because I saw very little of the riot. I was kept down at the Point. My location is at the Point.

Q. I presume that it is perhaps best to state to us what was done towards protecting the Duquesne depot?

A. I was at the Duquesne depot on Saturday evening. When I first went there, probably, it was four o'clock. Persons that I was acquainted with there, stated there was going to be trouble. People were moving their goods from the houses around the depot. I asked them what the trouble would be, and they said they had been notified to move all their personal effects, as the mob would be down in a short time--to turn out, stating the hour.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did they say who notified them?

A. Persons that came down from the upper depot stated they were to burn it at a certain hour, I think five o'clock was the hour. My place of business was located just below it, and I kept at the lower part of the depot. Between five and six o'clock, there were seven or eight persons congregated at the lower part of the depot, trying to break open the depot. They talked as though they were going to set fire to the depot, and also burn up some cars that were across on Water street siding that was there. They broke open a car door and set fire to one of the cars. There were probably five or six of us standing there at the time. Several remonstrated with them for trying to set fire to the cars--objections were made. They had that on fire and it was kicked out. They got a keg of beer from some store or other, and about six or eight of them drank that keg of beer. They tried to start a fire in a second car, and Mr. Reeves, one of the party, told him he would put a ball through the man that put a match to that car. He asked me for a pistol at the time. He said he had none, but he made that remark to frighten them--the men were intoxicated. A number of us agreed to stick together in case any attack was made, that we could assist each other in resisting these drunken men that were trying to burn the depot and the cars. One young man hammered a good deal at the depot door, trying to get the door started to get in, but did not succeed. The crowd continued there probably an hour--from three quarters of an hour to an hour. Some gentlemen. Doctor Dixon among the rest, came down from the upper end of the depot, hearing that we were there, and, as I understand, they arrested the parties that were drinking and threatening the depot with destruction.

Q. These men intoxicated?

A. Every one of them.

Q. Any other facts?

A. I do not know of anything. I kept down at the Point all the time.

Q. How large was the crowd there; about how many?

A. They gathered towards six o'clock--a pretty large crowd--and at the time I allude to when they were trying to burn the cars in the depot, or wanted to burn the depot--the drunken men--about six or eight. They talked very loud. There were but three of us at first, when we were at the lower part of the depot, and stayed there until we got more force.

* * * * *

John Slagle, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State to the committee where you reside?

A. Allegheny City.

Q. And your business?

A. Business is iron commission merchant, in Pittsburgh.

Q. You may state to the committee any facts--any information--you are in possession of, in regard to the riot, and the means used to suppress it, that have not been already fully gone over?

A. You have got most of the facts that I am conversant with, I expect, Mr. Chairman. During the week preceding the Sunday of the riots, I had learned, through the papers and by hearsay, that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company were going to enforce what was known as the double-header order. I heard of the attack upon Mr. Watt, and the question came up as to what was to be done in reference to it, and on inquiry of some parties, we learned that the railroad company did not suppose it was going to be a very serious strike, or would be very difficult for them to run their trains, as they had a large number of loyal men that would run trains as soon as they issued the order, and the rest would be taken care of. I paid no special attention to the matter, until I heard the military were coming that day. Failing to get their double-header order put into effect by the police, that they had arranged for military, and the excitement began to get up a little; and I remember very well how I felt, for the reason that I had a boy just about the age that boys want to go to such places. He was anxious to go to the scene of the trouble. I charged him that he must not go, and that everybody that went to a place of that sort was a rioter, unless he went there to help put down the strikes, and he had better stay away. As the consequence, I stayed at home, even after the shooting took place that evening. I might say, however, about that, that on Saturday evening I visited the house of my brother, on the hill above, on Centre avenue, and after leaving his house, along about five or six o'clock, to go to my own home, I met some of these soldiers coming, without their guns, on the street. Saw one of them talking to a girl immediately in front of my brother's house, and overheard him say that he had abandoned the field; that the Philadelphia troops had fired on the crowd, and there were a good many people killed and a terrible riot there, and he had abandoned the field, and was going home. I followed to my own home, and stayed there until the citizens were called out, on Sunday at noon, with this exception, that I had watched a little of the operations of what was going on in Allegheny, at the outer depot, and I went that Saturday evening down to the transfer station to see what they were doing there, and found a large number of people--railroad men and others--and in talking with them, I asked what they were doing. They said that they were stopping all trains that came into Allegheny, housing the freights, and seeing that nobody went to Pittsburgh on the passenger trains that had any arms, or was likely to interfere with the strike at the Pennsylvania railroad. One of the men I talked to was a railroad employé, working in the machine shop--the son was a fireman, and the son and father were standing together. Said I, "You do not seem to be among the strikers." "No," he said, "we think it is best to keep off the railroad property in times like this, and we are leaving that to some other fellows." As to my own part, it began on Sunday noon. I was appointed on a committee of twenty-five to see what could be done to stop the burning and riot, and went with the committee to the scene of the fire about one o'clock, and you have heard from Mr. Scoville and others all that Mr. Bennett and Mr. Tuigg, the bishop, and Doctor Donnelly, and Mr. Barr did and said while they were in the railroad yards. I remained in my buggy outside of the railroad yards, and saw a good many people that I knew, and a great many that I did not know, and in answer to a question that was put to me as to what we were doing there, I said these gentlemen that had gone in the yard came there to see if they could not devise some means to stop this burning before there was any further destruction of railroad cars, and especially to save the Union depot. They asked me, "How do you propose to do it?" I stood up in the buggy, and addressed the crowd--told them we wanted to find some of the railroad strikers that could handle the cars, and then we would take them up with citizens to stop the burning. If we could find ten railroaders to handle the cars, we would go into the depot grounds, and stop that fire and save the depot. A fellow on top of the cars says: "You can't do that. We are going to burn clear to the river, and the lower depot as well, before we are done." I looked at the fellow, who was on top of one of the burning cars. They had run it down, and checked the brakes at the side of a freight train, so that the fire would communicate. I had a curiosity to hitch my horse, and climb up and see that fellow. There was three of them. He appeared to be guiding the others, and had charge of the car, and checked it alongside of two other box cars, so that the fire might communicate. He said they were going to burn the whole train--they were going to continue until they burned everything the railroad owned. I got into my buggy and drove a square further toward the round-house, and stopped again and asked the crowd if there was any railroad men who were strikers in that crowd, and at that point a young man came to me in his shirt sleeves, with a handkerchief, says he, "Slagle, you don't remember me. I am a railroader, but not a P.R.R. man." I said, "Can you find any P.R.R. men? They all abandoned the property last night." Says I, "Will you take me to where they can be found?" He said he would, and he jumped in my buggy, and drove me down to Twenty-fourth street. He wouldn't take me any further. Says he, "You stop here, and I will bring them to you." I stopped and sat in my buggy a little while, and, after a while, he came back, and he said he could only find two, but we will go to Twenty-sixth street, and I can find you two or three. I got into the buggy, and drove to Twenty-sixth street, I stopped again at the corner of Twenty-sixth, and he went up toward the railroad, and came back with one man. This man said, "What do you want?" Says I, "We want from ten to twenty railroaders to go to stop this firing before it reaches the depot." Said I, "I don't know you." Says he, "You have got no advantage of me, for I don't know you, and we will go on one condition, that is, I think we can get the men to go on one condition, and that is, that we are protected against arrest for what we have done in the way of striking, for," says he, "we have destroyed no property, and we abandoned it as soon as the mob begun to burn, and we fear we will be arrested, and if you will guarantee us against the arrest, we will arrest the men." I asked him to arrest the men, and I would see about the other. So I took my buggy and drove back, and met some of the other committee coming up--Tuigg, Scoville, Park, and McCune, and others--and we arranged a meeting at Twenty-sixth street, and on the curb-stone we talked it over, and told them we could not guarantee them against arrest, but, if they would come down and help us to put out the fire, and they were arrested, we would go their bail. Three men stepped out, and said they were strikers, and they would go. They started then to find more, and we met again at Twenty-fourth street, I think it was, and had another meeting. At that meeting they arranged to go down to the city hall, and they began to back out a little. At that point I left them, and they arranged with Park and McCune to meet at the city hall, at half past three o'clock, and said they would go with the citizens, and stop the burning. From that point, I had left my young friend, and took the buggy and started, when a fireman says to me, "You are going down town?" Says I, "I guess you are the man I am hunting. We want some one to put out this fire." Says I, "Who are you?" Says he, "I am the chief. I would like to borrow your buggy a little bit. I have got a message to bring men to the elevator." I whipped my horse up a little until we found his own horse, and then he jumped from the buggy. I told him we wanted to get a hose company to go in there, and I thought we could water the fellows off the cars. Says he, "We will get you one, and we will try it." When I got down, he had got a hose company, and started in. They had not thrown long, I think, till somebody cut the hose, and they were backed out, or pushed out of the crowd, and were not allowed to throw water for some cause. This took two hours or more of time, and we came back to a point a short distance above the Union depot, and, while we were conferring with these firemen and some others, a fire was started down below in the back shed. Then I left, and attended this meeting at the city hall. At the city hall you have heard was done there. From there I went to the Duquesne depot, and met this man that Colonel Monroe and Doctor Dixon told you about, and I saw what they were doing. In the meantime, the elevator was burned. I went over to Allegheny, and took some little steps to protect the railroad property at the outer depot and the dispatcher's office. The only point I would like to say anything about after that was this: From that time until the end of the strike, and the trains were running, I was busy every day and every night going back and forth between the railroad employés and officials, and the mayor, and committee of safety. There is one point I have heard much said about, and it is this: I had been in the immediate vicinity of the dispatcher's office in Allegheny, back and forth to see what was going on. I happened to be there about the time that Ross vacated his place, and Ammon took it, and watched a little of the operations by which the trains were run under Ammon's administration, and I saw, with my own eyes, what the trainmen appear very unwilling to testify to, and that was whenever an engine came into that yard it was immediately assailed by from three to twenty men, and the men that were on it were told, called generally by their first name, "You get off, and let that engine be just where she is; this thing has got to be fought out now." Whilst they did not use personal violence in taking a man off a train, I saw a passenger train stand there one hour after it had come away from the Union depot before they could get a crew, for the reason that as fast as they got one fireman on they would intimidate him by threats of violence. It would not be safe for him if he got out of town with the mob and crowd somewhere else, and he had better stay where he was. I have seen three sets of men taken out in an hour before they got enough men to take a passenger train out. I was sent for after the strikers begun to disagree. A man had been displaced from his position there by his fellow strikers, and Ross had been re-instated. It was rumored that man was going to be arrested, that they had a warrant out for him. I was sent for to go to the _Chronicle_ office one day, to know if I would go with Bob Ammon, and see Layng, McCullough, and Thaw, of the railroad. I said I did not want to do so. I didn't want to have anything to do with Ammon; thought he was a bad man; didn't care about it. Ammon had a proposition to make by which he could break the blockade. As a merchant interested in shipping, I agreed to go with Ammon, and I met him at the _Chronicle_ office, went to the railroad office, and stayed there in the building while he was making his proposition to Layng and McCullough and others to break the blockade. I did not hear what his proposition was, for while he was talking to them I was with Solicitor Scott, talking with him. After he came down to Layng's office again they had a warrant for him, but they concluded they would not arrest him then. Then afterwards, it was proposed that Ammon said he could break that blockade--would I go to Allegheny with him, and see if we could. I didn't want to go to Allegheny with Ammon. I thought they were going to kill him over there; finally I consented to go to Allegheny, and did so. This was early in the week after the Sunday. I went over there with him, down Penn street, and went in the street cars, and on the way he introduced me to a railroad passenger conductor, and appeared to be on good terms with him. We went down to the dispatcher's office, and walked along the track, and now says he, "You will see if they are going to kill me or not." We walked together and joined the crowd--one hundred and fifty or two hundred railroaders. I was introduced to one whose name was Cole, from Chicago. I asked Cole what he was doing there, and he had been advised that there was going to be a strike, and he had come there, because he was one of the officers of the union, at Chicago, and he was there in the discharge of his business. I asked where those other men were from. I would not know him again if I would see him. I said, I don't see many of our Allegheny boys, where are they? He said, You can see them over at the hall directly, we are going to have a meeting. Nobody molested Ammon at all. We went to the dispatcher's office, and he looked in and spoke to people that were there, and stayed with me there, for I was going to see what he was going to propose. We then went to a meeting of railroaders in the hall, and at that meeting this citizens' committee and the mayor was present, and as I had not been appointed for that office, I took my place in the back part of the hall. There was about three hundred or four hundred railroaders there, so they said. The hall was jammed full--there was not room for more. They organized by having a chairman and secretary. McCune and Captain Gray, and Mr. Morehead, Mayor Phillips, and somebody else was the committee. They began to call for Slagle, knowing me, being an Allegheny man, and living near there, and knew a good many of their faces. I told them I hadn't anything to say at that meeting; I had come with one of the railroaders, and Mr. McCune was foreman of that committee, and then after awhile they talked the matter over, back and forth, those citizens and railroaders went over their grievances. Here was Ammon's proposition: "Now, I am going to make my proposition; I want you to wait." He got up and addressed the chairman, and they began to hoot at him--howl, you have no right here, you are a scamp, and abused him as though he was a man they did not want to associate with, and the meeting got very boisterous, and the chairman took his position and tapped on the table, and, says he, "Ammon has a right to speak here." Ammon said, "I propose we break this blockade by organizing two or three crews, and I am authorized to say that the engines will be furnished, if we can get the crews to run. I propose that we organize two or three crews, and take the first freight train that is on the track below the city, and run it through to Chicago." I never heard such yelling: throw him out the window, kill him--all sorts of threats were made--but they quieted down, and the result of that meeting was an interview between nine railroaders appointed by that meeting, at the office of the mayor, at which I was invited to be present, and we sat three hours.

Q. At the mayor's office? What mayor?

A. Mayor Phillips. I did not participate in that discussion only to be a witness at the interview between those nine men and the committee, which was all in reference to their illegal possession of property that did not belong them, and they ought to abandon their possession, and give the property back to the railroad company in the condition they left it the first day of the strike. It was understood that the railroad officials had abandoned the property to the strikers, insisting that it had been taken away from them illegally, and they wanted to get possession of their property in a legal way. I believe, Mr. Chairman, except the little part I took with this safety committee in raising money and men to do whatever might be needed, that that is all I know about the strike.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did these men state what their grievances were?

A. It was very clear. They said they had no double-header order to be rescinded, but they were bound to get back this reduction of ten per cent. and to break up this classification of engineers, and they said a great deal on that subject in this boisterous meeting. Some of the speeches were very intemperate and very boisterous--bread or blood--and all that sort of thing, but they were hot-headed fellows. Then other men thought they had made a mistake. They all admitted they had made a mistake in striking and holding possession of the property. They admitted that when we argued it quietly. The mayor argued it with them, and they admitted to him that they had made a mistake in striking, and in abandoning their jobs to the road, and they said they were so organized that the road could not run a train out without the consent of the strikers. Mayor Phillips said to them, "What do you mean by so organized?" Says he, "We have our Brotherhood of Engineers and Trainmen's Union, and they extend all over, and if one man or the association says strike, his train is not to go, and you cannot get any man to run that train, and the road will have to give us what we demand." You have been aware of this movement to save the freight on Saturday, when it was run down the road, and it is not necessary for me to detail that. I might just say this about that: Having lived in Allegheny for twenty years, and several years right down there in the neighborhood of the depot, that I was surprised to find so few of these men that were on the track that afternoon, and other afternoons, to be our own Allegheny railroaders, and in answer to a question that I put to these men, calling to a man named Sourbeer, and one or two others, he said, You must understand that a great many of these trainsmen that are young men that are not married, and have no fixed home, and they are just where their train happens to be. There is a man, for instance, who has a wife and family, lives near Union. The day he is in Allegheny he boards at the house, and a large number of those men that are striking are men that live at the places along the line of the road, and that accounted for why I didn't know more of them.

* * * * *

James P. Barr, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State your residence?

A. Fourteenth ward of Pittsburgh.

Q. Editor of the _Pittsburgh Post_?

A. Editor of the _Post_.

Q. Editor and publisher?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just go on and make a statement and what you know of the causes of the riot that came within your knowledge by conversation with the employés of the road, etc., and what came under your observation during the riot and the days of the progress of the riot?

A. I think I should prefer to answer questions first before I go into anything like that, because my personal observation does not extend over a great deal.

Q. When did you first learn of any disturbance among the railroad employés?

A. On Friday morning. The first was on Thursday at noon. I did not know anything about it at all till Friday morning's paper. I do not know any of our people knew there was any trouble beyond the railroad employés, but it was mentioned in Friday morning's paper, and on Friday morning we learned that a proclamation was issued, and the military were called for. I went to the depot about twelve o'clock. About half-past one I went out to the Eighteenth regiment, at Torrens station. Remained there three or four hours. There was considerable of a crowd there. I talked to Mr. Hice--he is on trial here now--he appeared to be a leader of the party there. Colonel Guthrie talked with him. He told him that he would get on the trains as they were coming into the city and inform the conductors and engineers and trainmen that there was a strike, and have them abandon their trains when they came in. I talked with him a good while, expostulating with him. He said they did not intend to perform any overt act, that they felt persuaded they could accomplish their purposes by abandoning their trains. It required experts and people of experience to take them out again. They knew such people were not about. I told them I thought it would soon get out of his hands. The sheriff and General Pearson had been out there just before. I came on the ground while he was there--probably came out on the cars. The military were called into position two or three times. The crowd was uneasy. There were no trains going eastward. I think there were some trains passed while I was there on Friday, and a good many people came out on an engine during the afternoon. I came in on Friday night. I was about at the office. Around town there was no particular excitement. We had been subject to these things for years--strikes of employés in the mills and in the mines--and they generally exhausted themselves without any violence. We did not anticipate any trouble, but on Saturday the knowledge came that the Philadelphia troops were coming, and we had our Sixth division out--the regiments and two batteries--and had a kind of a circus. Great crowds of people gathered. Crowds of women and children gathered on the hill side. I was not at the depot nor at Twenty-eighth street at the time the firing occurred, but was somewhat conversant with the condition of things.

Q. Did you know on Friday, when you went to Twenty-eighth street, that the militia had been called out? At that time did you know it?

A. There was a printed proclamation, purporting to be coming from the Governor. On Friday morning, at nine o'clock, it had been posted on the streets, calling for the local troops here. General Pearson's orders were printed in all the papers, as well as the orders of Thursday night. All the telegraphic dispatches were in the papers on Friday morning--from the sheriff, from the Secretary of the Commonwealth, Attorney General, the Adjutant General, and Mr. Farr--some eight or nine dispatches were all printed on Friday morning, and our division called out. At that time, the whole public was informed as to the fact of the military there.

Q. On Saturday night, what knowledge had you of the movements of the military?

A. I learned, after the firing, that a great deal of excitement prevailed. I might as well state now, that the fact of the firing upon the mob did not make any difference, whether it was by orders or without orders. The crowd supposed it was by orders, because their vengeance seemed to be concentrated on General Pearson, who was in command. They thought he gave orders, but practically it made no difference whether it was by an order or without an order. It makes a difference, in fact, so far as parties killed were concerned, or the act itself; but they supposed that an order had been given to fire, and that they then had a grievance, which they had not before. Before that, it was confined to railroad employés. They assumed that they had not got wages enough. There were double-headers put on, but when people were killed, they said there was then a good cause for grievance, and they rushed to the gunshops--one right opposite my office--took all the weapons they could find in there, broke open the whole place, carried off the guns, and paraded the streets. The feeling then was intense--bitter, and revengeful feelings seemed to pervade all classes of labor. There had been a sympathy with them all the way through--they were part of the labor element. I think myself that if the military had not been there, and had not provoked a collision at that unfortunate time, that there would not have been a life lost, nor a dollar's worth of property destroyed. As everybody can tell after the battle is lost how it might have been won, we find that after we survey the whole thing over again, it is pretty hard to lay the blame on anybody. The action of the militia just at that time has been the common action of the militia all over the world. It requires the strictest and sternest discipline of the regular soldier, to obey the command after he has been struck or knocked, to refrain from resistance. The militiaman is not paid for it; he carries his humanity into the ranks, and when he is struck he resists. What our militia did here, they did in Baltimore, they did all over the country, and they would do again under similar circumstances. The question of their firing without orders, is a thing you never can provide against with militia.

Q. Sunday morning, what was done by the military or civil authorities, county or city?

A. Sunday morning, at nine o'clock, when I came to my office I found a number of gentlemen there, merchants, manufacturers, and business men, alarmed and dazed by the condition of things. About the first thing that was done, was to write a resolution--they wrote a resolution to get the citizens together, and provide a leader. They waited from Thursday until Sunday, the city, the county, and the State at her back, and we had not provided any other agency for self-protection or the preservation of the peace, but these. When we ascertained on Sunday morning, that twelve hundred soldiers, veterans, under the command of experienced officers, had not been able to quell this violence, we felt that no fifty or one hundred men could do it, and we were at a loss to dam the brook on Saturday night, and the flood was then over, and we had to wait until the water subsided before we could get foothold or make a landing. We went to work as fast as we could. I went to the Union depot until about half-past nine or ten o'clock. I saw quite a lot there, they appeared to be cool but utterly unable to provide for the difficulty, the military having gone away, contrary to their instructions or their orders. While I was in there, General Gallagher, I think it was, came in. He had been around the city, and they asked him how many troops it would take to hold the city at that time, and he said, it would require at least fifteen thousand. I stayed there that time, and a servant came up and said we were the last people in the hotel building, and we had better go off. Then we went to the Monongahela House.

Q. Who is Gallagher?

A. I think he is colonel in one of the neighboring counties.

Q. Belonging to the National Guard of Pennsylvania?

A. Yes, he is a colonel--at least he was in undress.

Q. Was he not a colonel in the Pennsylvania Reserves, during the war?

A. Yes; in Westmoreland, I think. The whole town was out, you know. I think there has a very great delusion taken possession of the public mind, in regard to the Sunday's burning. There were not many people on the tracks at any time during Sunday, because they were crowded with cars--cars burning slowly, and the work of destruction commenced at night. The motive was, they wanted to burn these troops out of the round-houses, and communicating fire from car to car, was rather slow, and many people imagined, that because there were but few people on the tracks during the day, therefore a few people could have controlled them. The reflection seems to be made upon the officers of the city and county, and the military, that a few policemen, or a few military, could have driven those people off the tracks, and that would have been the end of it. But anybody that stood there during that day, and was among these people, found thousands of people on the streets and on the side-walks, the side streets, at Liberty street, that prevented any water being thrown on the cars, and prevented any interference. It was not necessary for many people to be there to fire the cars. They were strangers. I suppose the railroad men who had the first grievances, did not go there, because they might have been recognized, but they all stood on the streets, and not a drop of water dared to be thrown on these tracks. It is the sheerest nonsense to talk about ten men, or twenty-five men, or two thousand men, to have stopped this. They had broken open barrels of whisky, and they knew the military were gone, and they were perfectly satisfied there was no police force to stop the people, and unarmed citizens called by the sheriff to put down the mob, was simply ridiculous. The sheriff did what any sheriff would do--he called a posse, a lot of clerks, or--lawyers, to put down a mob. The mob understood as well as anybody else, that that could not be done, it was not his fault, and it was not the fault of the mayor that there was not any police. The State prevented the city of Pittsburgh from borrowing any money. The bankers in this city offered to furnish the amount of appropriation that was short for police, but they could not get the money back again, because the city could not borrow any money. The bankers offered to provide us with our usual number of police, but the State law stated that we could not borrow any money for that purpose.

Q. Constitution, ain't it?

A. Yes; it is in the Constitution, too. The State stepped in, and would not let us do it. Eighty-five men to cover twenty-five miles square. The patrolmen were up all Thursday night, and on Friday we hadn't any police. We held a meeting at half past twelve, and in the meantime a committee five was appointed, of which I was one, who went into the crowd, and asked them to stop. There was one man, he was in a blouse, he seemed to be dressed as a railroader--he attached a burning car to a locomotive, and jumped the track four or five squares east of the depot. When our committee came in, and when Bishop Tuigg was speaking, he rang his bell, and started off with his steam whistling, not allowing people to hear what was said, and there were words lost on the crowd that was in front. They were not railroad men. If it hadn't been for the fireman the city would have been in ashes. If it hadn't been for the citizens preserving the peace, there is no telling what would have happened. The matter was of such dimensions, and extended over so many cities, and miles of railway, that if this whole city had have burned down, and if every man, woman, and child had been arrested, that was not the end of the thing. It was only a small element--a portion of it. I think it extended over nine cities, and twenty thousand miles of railway. It had proclamations from six or seven Governors, and proclamations from the President of the United States. It was a matter not of contagion, but of organization. I have here the proclamation of the Governor, and meeting of trainmen.

Q. What facts have you to say that it was a matter or organization?

A. Not being a member of any of their organizations, although I am of some other societies, I only get it by publications which I have in my bound files, and can furnish you the meetings of trainmen, and the fact that on the 16th of July, on Monday, that these same railroad men, on account of wages in West Virginia, Martinsburg, resisted the authority. They called on the Governor, and the Governor appealed to the President of the United States. That on Wednesday, the 18th, the proclamation of the President of the United States was issued, which was twenty-four hours in advance of the first interruption here, and that it extended over nine of the most populous States in the Union. It is a matter of current public positive history, which of itself would be sufficient to show that all the railroad employés were in consultation, and had, of course, an organization. I suppose that railroads had to reduce wages in consequence of reduced receipts, and that these people, with their oath bound organization, had agreed that the only way they could cure that, would be by stopping work. I think that was their only object.

Q. Have you any facts, aside from the actual existence of the strike, to show that they had secret organizations and a pre-arranged plan to strike throughout the nine States?

A. Not being a member of any secret organization myself, I was only governed, as a public journalist, by the facts that came to me.

Q. You arrive at that conclusion, then, from the existence of the strikes themselves, and their spreading over so large a territory?

A. Yes; and at the same time, it could not be simply contagion from one line to the other. There was not time enough to communicate from man to man along all the line of railroads, and that they having possession of the telegraphic wires at the same time, they had all the works of the entire railroad itself, and it was communicated to the whole of them, and they had their resolutions and perfected their organization.

Q. Do you know how many railroads in this country reduced their wages ten per cent. on the 1st of June?

A. I do not, except from the current reports at the time that the four great trunk lines did--branches of the roads east agreed with it. About forty thousand miles of railroad in the United States agreed with it. About all, although the strike was not developed all over. I think some of the New York roads, perhaps, arranged it with their employés, but still there was trouble. The main trouble here, was the reduction of wages. I don't know that it would be of benefit to this committee, but I would be perfectly willing to give my bound files which give the current history of that during the two weeks. It might be useful to look over to show the existence of this thing. There are many things that are official--the Governor's proclamation is official.

Q. You have no copies of the papers that you could furnish us to retain?

A. I will furnish them to you or send them to you at Harrisburg by express. You can keep them as long as you want. I can get them very well. I have extracts taken out of them, all of which I would be very glad to furnish. There is one thing I might state----

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Have you got your files bound for the month of July?

A. The daily and weekly are bound together. I have them bound, and I will furnish them gladly to you.

Q. Could you not furnish us with a bound copy, with references to the pages?

A. You can have from July 28, to August 24, that is two weeks. We felt here the crisis approaching, and the importance of this whole matter, and I telegraphed to Mr. Scott, president of the Pennsylvania railroad, these words:

PITTSBURGH, _Saturday noon, 1877_.

To T. A. SCOTT, _Philadelphia_:

Don't you think you could best serve your company, rescue imperiled
interests, and perhaps save valuable lives by your presence here,
and make in person some proposition to convince our people your
company has rights and grievances. The current sets against you
with every shade of labor, and it is important that you should be
on hand to decide whatever may be presented to you. I can assure
you the situation is critical.

J. P. BARR.

That was on Saturday, about eleven o'clock, before any firing--before I knew that the Philadelphia people were here at all. I was so utterly convinced of the critical situation of affairs here, that I thought if Mr. Scott was here in person, that he might be able to say to these people that they were then an unlawful assembly, and that an appeal from him would settle this thing. If the committee desire, I will read his answer:

PHILADELPHIA, _July 21--4, P.M._

JAMES P. BARR, _Pittsburgh_:

I have just received your message, and fully appreciate the grave
importance of the matters transpiring in your community. You will
speedily discover that the strike of a few of our railway employés
is simply being used by the mob violence, which some of your people
are permitting or encouraging, to effect other purposes, which, if
successful, will destroy many of your leading local interests. The
strike on our road at Pittsburgh was inaugurated without any notice
to or conference with the officers of our company as to the
existence of a grievance. The reductions in the compensation to the
people in the service of this company are to-day less than in any
other branch of business in the country, and were made only because
of the great depression in trade interests, to enable us to aid the
various communities in carrying on business at all. When violent
possession was taken of our property, and the business obstructed,
there was no recourse left us but to call upon the authorities of
the city, county, and State to take charge of the matter, and
vindicate the laws by the restoration of order in such form as to
them should seem best. If I could be of any possible service in
Pittsburgh, I would go out, but at present I think it would be most
unwise to interfere in any manner with the State authorities in
their enforcement of law and order.

Thomas A. Scott.

On Sunday he telegraphs:

PHILADELPHIA, _July 25--12.30, P.M._

To JAMES P. BARR, _Pittsburgh_:

What is the situation of affairs in Pittsburgh to-day? Are the
loyal people in shape to protect life and property? The statements
of my message of last Saturday to you have been terribly realized.
I think there is not and cannot be any safety for life or property
unless the State and United States authorities will adopt the
measures necessary to restore absolute law and order, and make it
permanent. Would be glad to have your views of the situation this
morning.

THOMAS A. SCOTT.

I telegraphed him back:

PITTSBURGH, _Wednesday, July 25--2, P.M._

To T. A. SCOTT, _Philadelphia_: