Chapter D: C. Larrabee, (2)

Q. Do you know what effort he made to secure a force?

A. Only what he told me.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were you there when the dispatch was sent for troops--the first dispatch, when the sheriff made up his mind to call upon the military?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What time was that?

A. It was about twelve o'clock Thursday night.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. The call upon the mayor and on the sheriff was not made until after you returned?

A. The call on the mayor was made on Thursday morning and the call on the sheriff was made on Thursday evening.

Q. Had you become satisfied then that you could not run your trains on account of the mob which had assembled?

A. Yes; I knew we could not run the trains.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. With safety?

A. No way.

Q. Did this ten per cent. reduction apply to all the officers and employés of the railroad company?

A. All the officers and employés, except those who got one dollar a day or less, either by the month or day--the track men getting ten cents an hour for ten hours. All above one dollar were reduced.

By Senator Torbert:

Q. That took effect on the 1st of June?

A. I think so.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It applied to the general superintendent?

A. He told me so. It applied to me.

Q. To the president of the company?

A. I believe so.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. In regard to the dispatch which you received from Mr. Watt--did you receive any other dispatch except the one you received at Altoona, asking you to come back, or which caused you to make up your mind to return?

A. No.

Q. After you got back you say the crowd had assembled--had there been any attempt by the crowd to prevent trains from running?

A. They told me so--no trains went out.

Q. At what time was any train stopped?

A. The first double headers went out from Pittsburgh all right--they were not troubled.

Q. At what hour?

A. From three o'clock in the morning up to nine o'clock or eight o'clock in the morning.

Q. What trains were first prevented from leaving regularly on time?

A. The trains that should have left between eight and nine o'clock.

Q. A freight train?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That was prevented from leaving?

A. The crew on that train would not go out.

Q. It was not the crowd that prevented that first train from leaving?

A. I was not there.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Could you have got back any sooner?

A. No.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You say the crew of that train would not go out. Were they discharged then when they refused to obey orders?

A. After I got home, I had too little control, and wanted to get along as well as I could.

Q. Do you know what your officers did when that crew refused to go?

A. I understood that they had either to go out or be discharged.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. I was endeavoring to ascertain the first time that the crowd interfered?

A. I was not here, but you can get that testimony if you want it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Can you give any idea of the loss to property that occurred through this riot?

A. No; not of my own knowledge. I have no idea. The bills are coming in every day.

Q. About what was it in round numbers--the loss sustained by the company?

A. I have my own idea.

Q. Who can give us the figures?

A. I suppose our controller or one of the vice presidents could give them as estimated up to to-day.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. How many cars and engines did you lose?

A. We lost one hundred and four engines, and about sixteen hundred cars.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. The engines would average what?

A. I do not think the engines are all re-built yet.

Q. The cars are about how much?

A. About $800 a piece.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. On the freight cars could any of the iron be re-placed?

A. I might say no. Of course, occasionally, a wheel or two might be an exception, but none could be used again.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Who is your controller?

A. R. W. Downing, of Philadelphia.

Q. He can give us an approximate estimate?

A. He or one of our vice presidents.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You were here when the troops arrived from Philadelphia?

A. Yes; I saw all the movements of the troops.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Tell us now the movements of the troops, the Pittsburgh troops first, and then the Philadelphia troops?

A. The Pittsburgh troops--most of them--were moved at night. One regiment was moved or went up the hill east from here on the arch of the hill, and then came down on Twenty-eighth street, so as to come down on the crowd.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. When was this?

A. On Saturday morning. General Pearson ordered the battery to be taken up to the same place. It was loaded in the cars at the Union depot, and I was requested to move it up about two or three o'clock in the morning, to get there when the troops would be there. About two and one half or three o'clock, I had just gone to bed when they told me that they would not take the gondolas with the guns up.

Q. The men would not?

A. That is it. I went down and saw the men, and asked them why they would not do it, and they told me they were afraid of the crowd, that they would like to oblige me. I said if you don't take those trucks up, I will have to discharge you. They told me that they would like to do it, but their lives were threatened. They would not do it, so I had to take them up myself. I went up to Twenty-eighth street with the guns, and then I saw this large crowd.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Were you interfered with when you took up the gondolas?

A. No one said anything to me at the Union depot, only they kind of crowded around. When I got to Twenty-eighth street, they made a kind of rush, and when they saw I was running the engine, I expected them to attack me, but they did not. They did not say anything to me, only kind of crowded around. They got on the tank and saw no one but myself, and did not say anything.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Who got on?

A. The crowd.

Q. Employés of the railroad?

A. I did not recognize them as railroad men.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Give us the detailed movements, now, of the troops?

A. We brought the troops to Twenty-eight street with the battery on Saturday morning, and at the same time there was a regiment at Torrens. General Pearson and the sheriff and I went to those two places at different times to see what we could do. At Torrens that regiment, apparently, had the mob under control, that is they would not crowd around the tracks. The military seemed to be by themselves, while at Twenty-eighth street they were all mixed up--the military and the mob. Then I received word that General Brinton's command was coming on Friday night or Saturday morning. They ought to have arrived about noon; but did not get here until about four o'clock. They arrived at the Union depot about four o'clock on Saturday afternoon. We unloaded them, and got some coffee and sandwiches, and word was given to them to march to Twenty-eighth street, and clear the tracks.

Q. Who gave the order?

A. Some of the military. Mr. Cassatt, who arrived here on Friday, directed me to get two crews together, that General Brinton's command would clear the tracks, and that I could slip the trains out, and that everything, then, would go all right. Then General Brinton's command commenced to march, and the sheriff came up with about twenty members of his posse, and I urged him to hurry up and get there before the troops, and that if any of our men were there, I would talk to them, and perhaps prevent trouble. I went up. The crowd kept coming in on us all the way from the Union depot, so we took a large crowd up there. The crowd followed us up. We were so delayed in warning the crowd to get away that they came up close to us, and when we got to Twenty-eighth street, General Pearson was there, and the sheriff and his posse ahead of the military. The sheriff, I think, attempted to arrest one man who was very noisy, and then there was a general rumpus, and I was thrown back by the crowd and got in among the military companies, who had formed on Twenty-eighth street. They formed up and down on the north side, and up and down on the south side, and brought a company up between Then a man threw me back, and the company coming up the street allowed me to get in between. They went up, I suppose, to disperse the mob.

Q. Who threw you back?

A. I do not know; he was a great big man; he was a friend of mine, I know; it was not an attempt to hurt me. This company moved up, and dispersed the mob, and the command was given to charge bayonets, and put the bayonets between the people so as not to hurt them.

Q. Who gave that command?

A. I do not know.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. The object was not to use force, but to try and press the crowd back?

A. That is it. They were going to push them away. Then the crowd commenced cheering, and I saw two or three bayonets twisted off, and then a lot of stones were thrown at the military. General Pearson came back to me then, and said he was going to the office--was going to get more troops. He then went away. I could not get out. Then they commenced firing.

Q. What time was that?

A. About five o'clock on Saturday afternoon. I could not get out until the firing was all over and the crowd dispersed.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were not shots fired from the crowd before the firing commenced?

A. Yes; two shots were fired. I was near to the men.

Q. Fired at the military?

A. Yes; and stones came around and clouded the horizon.

Q. Before there was any firing by the military?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was any command given to fire?

A. No; all the officers I saw were begging the men not to fire.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. When the soldiers went up they did not attempt to injure the crowd? Were any of the soldiers hit and wounded at that time, before the firing--before they attempted to fire?

A. I saw two or three wounded right around me.

Q. Before that firing began?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In other words, they attempted to do it without using force. Just by pressing back the crowd?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Will you describe the crowd? Who composed it?

A. The crowd immediately around Twenty-eighth street, on the track, were workingmen--mill men. The other men, from their appearance on the hillside, were citizens. A great many people that I knew.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Women and children?

A. I saw no children, but some women.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Mixed in with the crowd?

A. Yes, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Close to the railroad?

A. They were apparently urging on the men. Some women were on the railroad.

Q. Encouraging the men?

A. They were yelling, and in through the men. There were very few women that I saw. They were all laughing and jeering at the soldiers.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How long did the militia stand fire from the mob? Stand those stones and clubs before they fired?

A. Then the company moved up and got in the crowd, and there was a man in the crowd hallooed shoot, and two pistol shots and a great many stones followed, and then the soldiers commenced firing, and then there was shooting just that quick.

Q. Was any order given for the soldiers to shoot?

A. No.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Was it a scattering fire, or did it appear to be a volley?

A. It was in every way and in every direction.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. When those stones were fired, you were among the military?

A. I was among the military, in the hollow square.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Proceed with the military movements?

A. They dispersed the crowd by the firing, and as soon as I got out, I went down to my office, at Twenty-sixth street. I there found General Pearson, and I reported to Mr. Cassatt what had been done. He was talking to General Pearson, and General Pearson was writing telegrams to General Latta at the Union depot. Then General Pearson and General Brinton were discussing what to do next, and whether Twenty-eighth street was a proper position for them to take, or to go up the hill or to come into the shops--what they had best do with the men. General Pearson was telegraphing for orders. They decided they would come into the shops, in order to get under shelter. The crowd was congregated around my office, and around the shops. General Pearson told me he would stay there, and as he had had nothing to eat that day, asked if I would send up some provisions: I told him I would go down to the Union depot and send all the provisions I could. So Mr. Cassatt and myself went to the Union depot, and I tried to get provisions up to the soldiers, but they were all confiscated by the crowd before they got any. I then went up to the room where General Latta and staff were. All this time the drums were beating, and crowd after crowd was moving up toward Twenty-sixth street. Mr. Cassatt said we were powerless to do anything, and directed me, or rather relieved me altogether of any--he said I had no business in Pittsburgh. All the time, during Friday and Saturday, one after another had come to me and said I had better leave. At the Union depot, they had got a report that I had given the order for the troops to fire. They had a coffin and a rope for General Pearson. All these reports were spreading about. Numbers of people told me to leave, and Mr. Cassatt directed me to leave. I afterwards left in company with Mr. Watt and Mr. Cassatt.

Q. Where did you go?

A. We loafed around the outskirts, and then went to Blairsville and reported, and made our head-quarters there at the Blairsville intersection. There I remained until I received word from Mr. Garrett that some of the old men wanted to see me to see if the matter could not be arranged, and to see if the trains could not be moved.

Q. When was it that you received that word?

A. On Tuesday. I was informed that some of the old men wanted to see me, and had other messages that I should come, and I came down to Pittsburgh.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you meet any of the men?

A. I met the men.

Q. To what number?

A. About eight or ten.

Q. What proposition did they make?

A. None. On Friday a committee of the men met me, making a certain proposition.

Q. You did not meet them until Friday after you came back?

A. I mean I met them the Friday of the trouble. I told them I could not possibly send such a paper to Mr. Scott. Then this other committee met me on Wednesday after I came back. I met that committee, and instead of what I expected, they brought out the old proposition.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What was the nature of that?

A. It was that no double headers, and full crews, and, I think, twenty per cent. advance. It was everything. I have got the paper. There are about four, or five, or six demands.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You have that paper?

A. Yes, sir.

Adjourned to meet again at three o'clock, P.M.

SAME DAY.

ORPHANS' COURT ROOM,
THURSDAY, _February 8, 1878_.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., and continued taking of testimony.

Robert Pitcairn, re-called:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Commence with the troops at the round-house, and tell us what troops were quartered there, and give a detailed statement of the movements of the troops from that point during the continuance of the riot?

A. I said that the Philadelphia troops had dispersed the crowd, and that made an opening for me to get to my office, where I found Mr. Cassett and General Pearson. General Pearson was telegraphing for more troops to come up. General Brinton arrived just behind me, and reported to General Pearson the result, that the troops had fired without orders, and what had been done. Then there was a consultation as to the disposition of the troops, whether they should go up the hill or remain an Twenty-eighth street, or come in to the round-house. They were asking our opinion. I remember, they asked Mr. Cassatt's opinion. I told Mr. Cassatt that I did not think he had any opinion. I remained there, and Mr. Cassatt with me. Before I left they decided that they were going to take the shops and the round-house to protect their men. I left, promising to send provisions, and went to the Union depot where I remained until some time in the night, and then went to Blairsville. When I left Mr. Cassatt, we had word that Brinton had gone to the Allegheny side, by the West Penn. That was what induced me to go to Blairsville. Not knowing where to go to, I felt that was my head-quarters for the time, we being compelled to run trains over the West Penn.

Q. When did you arrive at Blairsville?

A. On Monday morning.

Q. When did General Brinton's command arrive there?

A. I think that afternoon or evening. It might have been the next morning, but I think it was that evening. The next day, though, I was ordered to remain at Blairsville. I met this committee. Train-master Geyer wanted me to come down. I came down Tuesday, I think, or it might have been Wednesday morning, but I met the committee with the confidence that everything was going to be settled, but they brought this paper out that I told you was presented to me at Pittsburg, and with the committee that met me, instead of being very old men that we considered loyal men, there were some members of the committee who were among the suspended men. Nevertheless, I communicated the whole petition to President Scott, and asked for a reply. Mr. Scott's reply was in substance what Senator Scott told you was their reply to the citizens here, namely: that the welfare of the country would not allow him to give way to the men at the present time; that there were other interests involved, and that if they would go to work to start the trains again he would be glad to receive them. The conference with that committee amounted to nothing. The fact of the matter was, I was caught in a trap. I came down to see my old loyal men, and found suspended men, who, in an official way, I could not deal with, not being in our employ. A question was put to me this morning about the number of men suspended. I do not know how many suspended men we had at that time. I then came to Pittsburgh. I had orders to repair the damage, and try to get the main track through to the Union depot as quickly as possible, to gather up the force then scattered through the city, and the men who had gone to their homes, to repair the track and get to Union depot as quickly as possible. I went to the mayor, and asked him if we would commence work there if he would give protection. He said he would.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What day was that?

A. I think Thursday. I was gathering up the men, but was cautioned by some of the citizens not to go out and work too brash in the beginning--not to take too many men about the ruins to clear them off, but to commence moderately, explaining the feeling of the city, how matters were not quiet there, and that delayed me some days. I met Governor Hartranft at Blairsville before I left, going to Harrisburg. After he came here we got a large force.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Do you recollect the day he arrived here?

A. As I have said, it was all one day to me. He came here with a force, and we went to work with a large force and commenced repairing the damage. On the Sabbath after--that was the Sabbath after the Sabbath succeeding the Saturday of the fight, we arranged to move our trains, and we then had force enough to move all the trains, as we had during all the time, with the exception that this time the men asked for the military to be sent with each train, to get them through the coal regions, and through Johnstown. That matter was arranged with Governor Hartranft to send a lot of soldiers with the men, to get them through the different points where we had trouble. I think it was the first or second train that went out from Pittsburgh on that Sabbath evening that was wrecked at Spring Hill, by a switch being removed by some parties while the train was passing over. From that Saturday night or Monday morning next, we gradually sent more trains and more trains, until we got our road running as heretofore, and gradually repaired the damages. Governor Hartranft stayed here a few days, and the committees urged them to stay until, at least, he left for Scranton.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You stated that when you commenced work you commenced with a small force, and that after Governor Hartranft arrived with the troops, then you increased your force?

A. Yes, sir; to as many men as we could work.

Q. Did you feel perfectly safe, after the Governor arrived with the troops, in going to work?

A. Yes. We had a large body of men.

Q. It was under their protection that you felt safe?

A. It was only under their protection.

Q. Did you feel safe from another demonstration of the railroad employés, or from any other source?

A. I have no hesitation in saying that we were never afraid of our own men. So far as our own men striking we were not afraid. We were perfectly able to manage our own men, so far as our own employés were concerned, if you took away from us the men suspended. But I do not pretend to say that we were not afraid of the party or parties they brought. But I know nothing about that, of my own personal knowledge. I say this: We always had enough men to move our trains, if other parties had not come in. Who they were brought by, I do not know.

Q. Your own men would never have given you any trouble, had not outsiders interfered?

A. I say that, but do not pretend to say who brought them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It was General Brinton's command which was present when the military dispersed the crowd by their fire. Was not any portion of General Pearson's command present?

A. General Pearson's command was at Twenty-eighth street. There were very few of the soldiers and some of the officers at Twenty-eighth street. The battery I had taken up on Saturday morning and some few men were there, and General Pearson's command was on the hill.

Q. Can you tell me why they did not hold their position that they then occupied--the militia. What necessity was there for retiring to the round house?

A. I knew what they thought--it was that they were coming under cover to prevent them from being struck. I was not a military man. However, I know what I should have done.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What motives actuated them, after dispersing the crowd, in retiring their troops to the flat position of the street?

A. After dispersing the crowd, immediately the crowd--not that crowd, perhaps, but other crowds came back in front of my office--a great crowd. They were marching by and gathering from all quarters. By dispersing the crowd, I mean they all ran away, and then they commenced immediately coming back, and I had pretty hard work to come down to the office. The crowds were coming up the railway as I was coming down to the Union depot. All I can say is, they said that the reason for going to the round house was to get under cover.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was any effort made by the military to drive back that crowd when they commenced to reassemble?

A. I was in the office at that time.

Q. Only General Brinton's command went into the round-house?

A. General Pearson's command, I think, was dispersed, but I do not know it. I know this, that there were there soldiers that came with General Brinton's command, because some of them came down to the Union depot with messages.

Q. Had any property been fired or burned at that time?

A. Up to the time that I left no property had been burned.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Would it not have been natural, under military discipline, for the military to have held their position when they had obtained a position?

A. I think they ought to have gone up on the hill.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. When you returned from Blairsville, you said you expected to meet your old employés. Now, during all these negotiations, were the old men and the married men, that you have spoken of as being retained in your employ, engaged in this riot?

A. Not to my personal knowledge or observation. The majority of them were running.

Q. Did they make any complaint or any demand upon the company of any kind?

A. The general remarks of these men then were that they had nothing to do with this riot. Some of them said they ought to have the ten per cent. put back, but all deprecated this trouble, and said they had nothing to do with it.

Q. Were they ready to go to work at all times when you wanted them?

A. They always professed to be, but we never tried them to Sunday night, and then they wanted protection, and when we gave them protection they went out.

The following is the paper of the committee appointed by the employés making certain demands, to which I have already alluded in my testimony:

BROTHERHOOD OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS,
PITTSBURGH DIVISION, NO. 50,
PITTSBURGH, PA., _July 20, 1877_.

_To the Superintendent Western Division Pennsylvania Railroad_:

_First._ We, the undersigned committee, appointed by the employés
of the western division of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, do
hereby demand from the said company, through the proper officers of
said company, the wages as per departments of engineers, firemen,
conductors, brakemen, and flagmen as received prior to June 1,
1877.

_Second._ That each and every employé that has been dismissed for
taking part or parts in said strikes, to be restored to their
respective positions.

_Third._ That the classification of each said department be
abolished now and forever hereafter.

_Fourth._ That engineers and conductors receive the wages as
received by said engineers and conductors of the highest class
prior to June 1, 1877.

_Fifth._ That the running of double trains be abolished, excepting
coal trains.

_Sixth._ That each and every engine, whether road or shifting,
shall have its own fireman.

Respectfully submitted to you for immediate consideration.

J. S. MCCAULEY,
D. H. NEWHARD,
JOHN SHANA,
G. HARRIS,
JOHN P. KESSLER,

_Committee_.

In regard to the classification mentioned in the paper, I will say this, that there is no classification in brakemen or flagmen. When you come to the conductors, they receive a certain rate, which I do not remember, for the first year, and ten per cent. over that for the second, and ten per cent. over that for the third, where they remain so long conductors. Now come the engineers. When promoted from firemen to engineers, they receive a certain rate, and the second year ten per cent. more, and the third year ten per cent. more, and the fourth year ten per cent. more--four classifications. That arrangement was made at their request, some four years ago, perhaps longer.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. These men were men who would have been suspended under the orders to run double-headers?

A. No. These men had taken such an active part previous to this Saturday, that I do not think they would have been kept in our employ, but we had no opportunity to discharge them.

* * * * *

David M. Watt, _sworn with uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. At East Liberty, on the line of the Pennsylvania railroad.

Q. You are in the employ of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company?

A. Yes; in the capacity of chief clerk of the Pittsburg division.

Q. How long have you been employed in that capacity?

A. It will be fourteen years in July next.

Q. You were filling the place of Mr. Pitcairn on the Thursday before the riot occurred?

A. Yes; during his absence.

Q. Have you any knowledge of any disagreements between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and their employés prior to that date?

A. There are continually matters coming up for settlement in the superintendent's office.

Q. But disagreements leading to the riots?

A. There were none to my knowledge. Had there been, I should have known it.

Q. Had there been any reduction in wages?

A. Yes; a reduction of ten per cent., which had been notified in May, to take effect on all the employés from and after June 1.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. All employés?

A. Except those whose pay amounted to one dollar per day, or who were paid by the month, and whose pay amounted to the rate of one dollar per day or less.

Q. Did that cause any complaint from the employés?

A. We were compelled to reduce our force on account of the condition of business. The volume of traffic governs the amount of wages, and the number of men we work. We had more men than we had the opportunity to give full time to. It was decided to reduce the force after the 1st of June, and the idea was to select the older men, and the men who by their services had proven themselves good and capable. To retain these and let the single men go, so as to give the married men a chance to make all the time we could afford to give them in the running of the traffic. It was also decided to run all the trains double-headers. A portion of them had been running for years as double-headers, but a notice was issued in July, advising all the employés that on and after a certain date--July 19, was the date fixed upon--all trains to and from Derry would be run as double trains. No complaint in the interval, between the date of the issuing of the order and the date upon which it was to go into effect, had been made at the superintendent's office, to either the superintendent or myself. Nor had there been any, so far as we had knowledge, to any of the subordinate officers, such as train-masters and others. Some of the men complained, of course, at not having work. It was a mooted question as to who would be the ones to go off.

Q. What date was that order to go into effect?

A. Upon July 19; Thursday. Mr. Pitcairn had arranged to go east on Thursday, July 19, in the day express, and I came to town, reaching the office about eight and a half o'clock in the morning, and up to that time no trouble had occurred, nor was any anticipated by the train-masters nor any one in our employ. About the time the eight-forty's--the extras--were to leave, the dispatcher came to the office and reported that some of the men had refused to go out. I made inquiry as to the reason of their refusal, and was told that they refused to go out on account of its being a double-header. Conductor Ryan was the man whose train did not go out. In the making up of his train he was ready to go out, but his men refused to go. I then instructed the dispatcher to call upon all the men on the road, with those out at the train-men's room. He called upon, I believe, some twenty-five men, brakemen, who refused to go out. They gave different reasons, some because they were double-headers, and some because they would not go if others did not go. Mr. Garrett, the assistant train-master, came in on the train that reaches there about nine o'clock. I sent for him, and told him what had been reported to me, and asked him to go out and see the men and see what they wanted, and report. Mr. Garrett, and Mr. McCabe, and Mr. Hunter, dispatchers, all three tried to induce the men to go out, but these twenty-five that had first refused got the balance to join them in refusing to man the trains. Mr. Garrett, I believe, requested Mr. McCabe, the general yard dispatcher, to make up a crew from the yard brakemen to man that train. Conductor Ryan was at all times ready to go out, and the engineers belonging to that train professed a readiness to run. We had a number of conductors there ready to run, and Conductor Gordon was the man who was going to take the train out after Mr. McCabe had secured the crew among his yard men. The crew, in making up their train, were assaulted with stones, and links, and pins, and driven from the train by a number of those men who had first refused to go out. I found that we were unable to get the train out. Then it came time for the nine-forty's to go out. In the meantime the crowd had increased somewhat, and they had taken possession of the switch which is west of Twenty-eighth street, leading on to the main track, over which a train to go east would have to be moved. It was reported to me that they would not allow the engine to go over that switch. The crowd was increasing. I then started, after a consultation with Mr. Garrett and other men there, to call upon the mayor. I asked that he should protect us in the movement of our trains, by removing from Twenty-eighth street, or that immediate neighborhood, those parties interfering with the switches.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you call in person upon the mayor?

A. I did; between ten and eleven o'clock. I drove to the mayor's office, and stated the trouble to him, and called upon him in the name of the company for protection. He replied that he had no force.

Q. Mayor McCarthy?

A. Yes; he said that the day-light force had been taken off, probably, about the 1st of July, and that he had nothing but the night force. I asked him to give me the front office force. He said he could not send them away. I told him I must have protection of some kind. He said that he might send out and gather up a force. He wanted to know how many men I wanted. I told him if he would send up ten men in uniform, that with our own force from the depot, if he could go up to the ground with me, and I had a buggy to take him, I thought the trouble would be all over before twelve o'clock. I thought the simple fact of his presence, without the police, would disperse the crowd there at that time. He refused to go, saying that he could not leave the office. I rather urged the matter upon him. The mayor then said he had been sick, and was not fit to go. He gathered a force of some ten men, I believe, and sent officer Charles McGovern, one of the front office men, in charge of them. They were to report at the Union depot, and be moved from there by a passenger car to run especially to Twenty-eighth street. Before the force was sent, the question was asked of me, who was to pay for the men.

Q. By whom?

A. The question was suggested by Mr. O'Mora, and addressed to the mayor. The mayor then addressed me, and desired to know whether I was in a position to assume the expense. I told him certainly, that I must have protection, and that if he could not give the force, and I must pay for it, I was then ready, and would become responsible for the payment of the men. I went to the outer depot, and got there a few minutes before the squad of police arrived. I walked up to Twenty-eighth street, in company with one of the dispatchers, I think McCabe, and was then advised that we could not turn the switch, that those parties held the switch, and would not allow the engine to back down. The engineer was John Sweeny, and the conductor was S. K. Moore. We wanted to take the engine down to couple on to a draft of cars to take them out on the Wilkensburg siding. I directed Moore to turn the switch. He refused, saying to me that he was afraid, that there were men there to shoot him the moment he attempted to turn the switch. I replied: "Very good, I will turn the switch," and I made a step forward for the purpose of getting to the switch, when the crowd gathered around me, and a brakeman by the name of D. D. Davis, who, I believe, at the time was in the employ of the Pan Handle road, or else a discharged employé from there--he was not in our employ--jumped in front of me, and waving his hand, or his hat, called out: "Boys, we will die right here." I placed my hand upon his coat, and called upon officer McGovern to arrest him. While my hand was upon his coat, some one delivered a blow, and hit me in the eye. That was from behind this man Davis. Immediately an attempt was made on the part of the police officers to arrest him. Others interested with him were throwing themselves in the way of the police officers to prevent the capture, but he was finally captured, and taken to the station-house. Prior to that time, however, I had reported to Mr. Pitcairn on the day express east that there was trouble, but that I did not anticipate it would amount to a great deal, and that he need not hurry home, unless further advised by me. The first place I could reach him was at Altoona. After having been struck, and finding the crowd increasing, and determined to prevent the running of the trains, I made a still further report, stating the condition of things, and he came back to Pittsburgh on the next train on which he could reach here, the fast line west that night. After I was struck, I believe I directed Mr. Smith to write a message, either in my name, or in Mr. Pitcairn's, I do not recollect, and addressed to the mayor, calling upon him for an additional force of not less than fifty men. It may have been a portion of those men who came up on the Atlantic express, six or eight, in charge of William J. White. Mr. Garrett reported from Torrens an immense crowd gathered there. I went up on the Atlantic with this police force to try to endeavor to get the stock. There were forty-six cars, all loaded with stock, waiting for this train to come out. We expected every moment to get some train started. Mr. Garrett had made an arrangement to side track some train coming west, and to take the engines and turn them at Torrens, and go east with the stock. They were there interfered with by quite a large crowd, who notified the employés on the trains that had come west that they must not couple to or touch the cars, intimidating them and threatening that they would be killed, or that something would happen.

Q. Who composed that crowd?

A. A number of railroad employés of our road and other roads and parties I didn't know, but supposed them to be not railroad men.

Q. Who seemed to be leading the crowd at Torrens?

A. A man who had been in our employ until the morning of Thursday--Andrew Hice. He notified the parties that he would be damned if any stock should move there, and that no train should pass there until the matter was settled.

Q. Was he an engineer?

A. He had been at one time a conductor on the road. Up until that Thursday morning he was in the employ of the company as a flagman. I might here state that when I directed Mr. Garrett to go out and see the men, he was told to notify all those employés who were called upon, and who refused to go out, that they might consider themselves as discharged. One party was paid off immediately; the others had not come for their pay, and nothing was said about paying or reporting them discharged until after the troubles were over.

Q. Did you have any conversation with those men yourself at that time?

A. Which men?

Q. With that crowd--those leaders?

A. I did have a conversation at Twenty-eighth street, before going to Torrens. I called upon the crowd to disperse and leave the ground of the company, that we proposed to move our trains, and did not desire to have any trouble.

Q. Did they make any demands at that time, and if so, what were the nature of those demands?

A. They did not. They simply said it was a question of bread or blood with them. At Torrens I had a conversation with the engineers and conductors of the trains coming west, and tried to persuade them to couple on to the stock and go ahead. They, however, refused, and gave as a reason, that they were afraid for their lives to do so. Mr. Thomas Scott, day stock agent at East Liberty, and the dispatcher both said to the crews that they would couple the cars if they would back the engines; but the crews were too much intimidated to do that. Mr. Garrett started with those engines to go east, and was to stop at Wilkensburg to take there a draft of twenty-two to thirty-two freight cars, and start for Derry with them. He and I had an understanding that I would attempt to get the stock from there somehow. I was to advise him after he left whether he might expect it. We gave it out that the stock was to be unloaded, and the shifting engine at the station, there for the purpose of shifting around the yard, backed down against the stock, and, that being coupled to the train, they started at once, and before they discovered what we were after, the train was out of reach, and this train that Mr. Garrett had taken east stopped and took on the stock at Walls. This was the last stock that we got away from East Liberty. East Liberty is four and five tenths miles, and Torrens is half a mile further east. I staid at Torrens waiting the movements of a train from Pittsburgh--the train that should come out in the afternoon. An attempt was made about four o'clock to move that train. A crowd interfered after the engines had started, and the engineers left their engines, and the crews gave up the trains. I then came back to Pittsburgh and went to the office, and made a still further report to Mr. Pitcairn. I then drove again to the mayor's office. I met Captain Bachelor at the office. He wanted to know if he could do me any service.

Q. He called in the capacity of a private citizen?

A. Yes.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Who is he?

A. The president of the Mason's bank. I found, on inquiry, that the mayor was not about when I got to his office. I was informed by his clerk, Mr. Metzgar, that he had gone out to Castle Shannon in the afternoon. That his wife was sick, and that he had gone to see her. I then asked whether anything could be done to call out the night force, fearing from the way the crowd was increasing that there might be considerable trouble. They said they could not send the police force out there and leave the balance of the city unprotected. I then drove up here to the sheriff's office--or rather the captain drove up--and found all closed here. I then drove to the sheriff's residence, on Washington street, and they replied that he was out of the city, but was expected back during the evening. I then went back to the office, and found that we could not make any movement that night, though we held the crews ready to go in case we had a chance to move.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What night was this?

A. It was on Thursday night. I reported the condition of affairs to Mr. John Scott, who had called at the office on his way into town, in pursuance of a message from the east, to consult with Mr. Pitcairn. During that night, and before twelve o'clock, the crowd was accumulating, and had entire possession of the tracks at Twenty-eighth street, so that we were unable to move even the engines engaged in the yard transfer work. The engineers had all been notified to put up their engines, and go into the house, and the movement of stock was interfered with. The movement of stock from the western roads--some was turned back. There seemed to be some trouble among the parties themselves as to whether the stock should go on or be sent back. I called at the office of the Pennsylvania company, to get the Honorable John Scott to go with me, and we called upon the sheriff in the name of the company for protection, and stated all that had been done up to that time. The sheriff got his deputy, who lived across the way, and we all drove out to the outer depot. On the way out we saw Mr. Pitcairn walking up, and took him in and rode to the outer depot--I think a little after twelve o'clock, midnight; the sheriff, after a consultation, went with General Pearson and some twenty or thirty men of our employés, myself among the number, to Twenty-eighth street. He there mounted upon a plank leading up on to a gondola, so that his head was above the crowd, and addressed them, advising them to leave and go to their homes, stating what his duty would be in case they did not go. He was greeted with all sorts of vile abuse, and told to go home. I will not repeat the language. He found he could do nothing there with them. He was jeered at, and while he was addressing the crowd pistol shots were fired in the air. That crowd was composed of some few railroad men, but the majority were not railroad men--a great number of them were mill men, and some of them with no occupation at all.

Q. How large was the crowd at that time?

A. I should judge in the neighborhood of two hundred men. The sheriff then went back to the superintendent's office, and entered into communication with Harrisburg and other points, sending the telegrams as described by Mr. Scott. There was no other attempt made that night to move anything, except stock to the stockyard from the connecting lines.

Q. What occurred on Friday morning?

A. We had crews brought in from Derry--that is the train-masters. They came in as passengers, ready to take the trains east. The majority of the engineers, up to this time, had professed their entire willingness to run at any and all times, but the crowd, on Friday, had increased to such an extent that it was not deemed prudent to attempt to start the trains without some protection afforded to the men running them, at least through the crowd. Very little was done during Friday, except the movement of stock. Friday night the troops were moved, the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments, I believe, to the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street. I expected on Saturday morning that we would start our trains without much trouble. I believe they took almost complete and entire possession of Twenty-eighth street and the switches that we needed to get our trains out.

Q. That is the troops took possession?

A. Yes; they had full possession of Twenty-eighth street on Saturday morning.

Q. And all the switches you needed to get your trains out?

A. Yes. But the crowd assembled in very large numbers, and it was not long before the crowd had possession of them, and all the ground.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Driving the troops off?

A. There was no conflict at all. The troops were stationed, one regiment on the hillside, probably some two hundred feet back from the line of the railroad, with their arms stacked, and another regiment was stationed on the road leading up to the hospital grounds, east of Twenty-eighth street, with their arms stacked, and a few men were on the crossing.

By Mr. Means:

Q. I want to know if those troops left their arms stacked while the crowd was still accumulating?

A. The crowd was in and about there. Do you mean whether or not the crowd could have taken possession of any of those arms without interference?

Q. No; but whether while the crowd was still accumulating the troops had their arms stacked?

A. The crowd was accumulating, and continued accumulating up to the time of the firing.

Q. And the arms were still stacked?

A. Yes, sir; while I was there.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. That is Friday evening?

A. No; Saturday morning. Mr. Pitcairn, and Mr. Cassett, and General Pearson, and other officers were at the Union depot. I remained at Twenty-sixth street, awaiting any instruction that might be sent me. I was advised by Mr. Pitcairn to hold myself in readiness to move some trains on Saturday afternoon--that the sheriff and posse were coming up the track, and that they would be followed by the troops, and that he expected that the crowd would be dispersed, and that we would be furnished a sufficient guard to place upon each one of those trains to move them out beyond Torrens, or to any other point where we might expect trouble. I waited, and met them as they came up. They were followed by quite a large concourse of persons. The troops held the track about opposite Twenty-fifth street, and there the Second brigade of the Philadelphia troops was left. I do not now remember the name of the general in command. However I was left with him. The First brigade moved on to Twenty-eighth street. This Second brigade threw out a skirmish line across the entire yard, with instructions from the general to drive back everybody. It was General Loud. He threw out a skirmish line and drove all parties west a sufficient distance for us to couple together all our cars and to make up our trains to go out.

Q. Drove them towards the city, you mean?