Chapter XV: Part 15

Mr. ADAMCIK. I would say that it didn't take us over, it probably took us half an hour to get there. I would say it would be approximately 3 o'clock.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited a few minutes for the county officers to get there, and when they got there we came outside, and I went with one of the county officers or two of the county officers to the back door, and one of the county officers and Detectives Rose and Stovall went to the front door.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited until Detectives Rose and Stovall and the county officers got inside the house, which was a period of time of maybe 3 or 4 minutes when they were invited in, and they came to the back door and opened it up and asked us to come in.

Mr. BELIN. Who asked you to come in?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Detectives Rose and Stovall, plus--because Mrs. Paine was in the house at the time standing next to them.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we started looking around the house. I think Detectives Rose and Stovall handled most of the interrogation. They asked the questions of Mrs. Paine, and Mrs. Oswald, after we found out who they were--and I didn't do any interrogating at the time at all, I just sort of stood and listened, and we started looking around.

We asked them where Mr. Oswald was, and various things, and we looked around.

Mr. BELIN. What did Mrs. Oswald say about whether or not you could see her room?

Mr. ADAMCIK. She never did say anything at all. In fact, she showed us where the room was and showed us several things in the room.

Mr. BELIN. What did Mrs. Paine do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. She didn't object at all. They were really very cooperative.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what the interrogation was? Who said what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't recall. I assume it was, you know, they asked her who she was.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone ask when was the last time they saw Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Oh, yes; I heard it asked.

Mr. BELIN. What was the answer given, if you remember?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall.

Mr. BELIN. Well, did they take you out to the garage?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not me. They took two of--some of the officers. I think it was Detectives Stovall and Rose, to the garage. I think it was through Mrs. Oswald that she went ahead and told Mrs. Paine something, and Mrs. Paine drew their attention to the garage.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about a rifle?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't hear it. I wasn't present when they went in the garage at all.

Mr. BELIN. All right, what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we stayed in the house for a good while, and we called, or one of our men called in the office, I didn't, and asked them what they should do. And of course they told them to bring the people in, that they wanted to talk to them at the office. And we told them about it and they agreed that they would go. And of course our problem was the children. There was some children, both of Mrs. Oswald's children were there, and I don't remember, I believe Mrs. Paine's were there, and we wondered where they would stay, or make some arrangements for the neighbors to keep them or not, and if I remember correctly, after we were there a while, Michael Paine, Mrs. Paine's husband came in. We have it here someplace what time it was.

Mr. BELIN. Did you hear what Michael Paine said when he came in?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes. He came in about 3:45 and told his wife that he heard the President was shot and he came over to see whether he could help, and they were surprised.

Mr. BELIN. When he said he heard the President was shot and he came over to see if he could help, why would he help her if the President was shot?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't know. Apparently in the affidavit, I was present.

Later on he said that his first idea when he heard that the President was shot was that Oswald could have been the one that done it, when he found out about the location, so apparently he figured that somebody would be over there questioning them.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we went through the house, if I remember correctly, and I believe the other detectives found some property. I know they found this blanket that was rolled up in the garage.

Mr. BELIN. Were you there when they saw the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I wasn't there. I saw the blanket later.

Mr. BELIN. Where was it when you first saw it?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I believe they took it in the house. I am pretty sure.

Mr. BELIN. Had they unrolled the blanket when they took it in the house?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; they had a string still tied around it. Apparently had two strings, and just one of the strings were cut.

Mr. BELIN. One of the strings was cut?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Who cut it, do you know?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't have any idea.

Mr. BELIN. Had it been cut by an officer of the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; it definitely wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. Pardon?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Definitely wasn't. As far as I know, it wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. How was the blanket rolled, do you know, offhand, approximately?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It appeared to be 4 or 5 feet, maybe.

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything in the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not that I could see.

Mr. BELIN. Was the blanket stiff or limp?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It was a regular wool blanket, and it wasn't fairly stiff. Just from being rolled that way, it didn't appear like it was real stiff. Just normal.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone carrying the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did you lift the blanket up?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I never did lift the blanket up.

Mr. BELIN. What happened after it was brought inside?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall then at all. I left the house after awhile and went with, I believe it was, Mrs. Paine. I went with her to one of the neighbor houses to see about the children, leaving the children there. I left and went with her.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning.

She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else on there? Did she say anything that it was unusual for Oswald to be home at all during the week?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; she did say that. That Oswald usually spent the weekends over there, and it was unusual for him to be there on a Thursday night and go to work with him on Friday.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else you remember offhand?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't believe I do.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. By then we went ahead and took these people and put them in a car. I think Mrs. Oswald took both the children. Mrs. Paine got a neighbor to keep her children and Mrs. Oswald and her two children were put in our car, the city police car, and Mrs. Paine also went with us, and Michael Paine, Mrs. Paine's husband, went with the county officer, and we proceeded to go to the city police station.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We took them up to the homicide and robbery bureau office and conditions were very crowded there, so we moved up to the forgery bureau next door, and we put them in the interrogation room and waited a pretty good while.

By this time it was approximately 6 p.m., and I think they were trying to get an interpreter and question Mrs. Oswald. That was the reason for the wait.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. Oh, yes, after talking to this Mrs. Randle, we wanted to talk to Wesley Frazier, and she said that he was at Parkland visiting his sick daddy.

So when we got back to the station, we checked with Parkland and couldn't find anybody by that name over there, so we checked with the clinic there in Irving, I believe it was, Irving Professional Center, and found out that he was there. The nurse checked the room, and he was there at the time, so some of the detectives called out there and had him placed in custody at that time so we could get an affidavit from him or question him.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. However, I didn't go back over there and get him.

Mr. BELIN. When you got down to the station, you were with Mrs. Paine?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right. When we got to the station, there was Mrs. Paine, Mrs. Oswald and her two children, and Michael Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Was Mrs. Oswald questioned at all or not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Mrs. Oswald, yes; she was. She was questioned that same evening.

Mr. BELIN. What did she say?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, she was questioned through an interpreter, and an affidavit was gotten from her also. I know she was showed the rifle in my presence.

I was there with Captain Fritz and myself and Detective Senkel, and the rifle was showed to her then, and she looked at it, and I remember her saying through an interpreter that it did look like the rifle, but she didn't say, but it did look like the rifle that Lee Oswald, that was in the garage previous to finding the blanket eventually.

Mr. BELIN. When you say finding the blanket eventually, did she say the blanket was there?

Was it simply that when you showed the blanket to the officers, apparently she made some remark that about a week or so previous to that her husband's rifle had been wrapped in a blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I can't remember exactly how long. I don't remember when she said the last time was she saw it.

Mr. BELIN. Did Mrs. Paine indicate she ever saw the rifle there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I can't remember. I took an affidavit, and I know I questioned her about the rifle, and I can't remember whether she ever said.

I would have to see the affidavit. I don't have a copy. I don't believe she said she seen the rifle. I believe that she said she saw the blanket there, but I am sure that that would be in the affidavit. That would be in the affidavit, though.

Mr. BELIN. Now anything else happen there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; after Mrs. Oswald was questioned, I took an affidavit from Mrs. Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I think this other detective, I think Senkel, probably took one from Mrs. Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. You mean Marina, Lee Oswald's wife?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's right, the wife.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Shortly after we got through with him, with this, I believe Lee Oswald's mother came in. I don't remember whether she had been in previous and was in some other office, but I know they brought her in the same office we were in at that time, and after we got through, they were all sitting in the same room together, Mrs. Oswald, Lee's mother, and the wife, and the children, and Mrs. Paine, and Michael Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Did Lee Oswald's mother say anything?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she kind of didn't say anything definite. She kind of had the feeling--I don't know how to explain it--just like this, well, she didn't realize what really happened and just couldn't quite understand it, or something. She didn't say.

Mr. BELIN. What about Lee Oswald's brother?

Mr. ADAMCIK. To me, he was in there, too. I didn't break that up. He seemed rather calm to me. He was real calm and real collected.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not to me, not in my presence.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then, what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was asked by Captain Fritz to take these people home, and he wanted me to take someone with me, and I took Lieutenant McKinney, who was one of the lieutenants in the forgery bureau. I used his car, and he went along with me to take these people home.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? First of all, did they say anything more on the way home about the incident or not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I believe the only thing I definitely remember is that Marina Oswald kept saying, telling Mrs. Oswald that this was her home, and she still decided she would like to stay here. She didn't want to go back to Russia. I remember her saying that.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember someone saying that through an interpreter?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right. Mrs. Paine was there, and she could interpret.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. She wasn't real good, but she could speak enough Russian to interpret a little bit.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We took them to Irving, to the Paine house. At this time I believe Mrs. Oswald was the only other person that we took back there to the Paine house that didn't come down to the station with us originally.

Mr. BELIN. You mean the mother?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; the mother, she went back with us.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, this was fairly late. I guess it was around 10 o'clock when we got back, so apparently it was around 9 when we started taking them to Irving, and got back about 10.

We just dropped them off at the house and went on back to the office.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got back to the office?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Went to the office and I stayed there a while, and I guess it was around 11 o'clock, I mean the interrogation room in the captain's office, and spent about 15 minutes.

Mr. BELIN. Why did you go in the interrogation room?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, at that time I think somebody else just finished talking to him, and I think the captain had to go see somebody or something, and nobody was in the room at the time, and he told us to go on in there for a little while and see whether we could talk to Oswald.

I think Detective Montgomery went in there with me, I am not sure.

Mr. BELIN. Were you the only two in there at that time?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; I think so. The ID Bureau came in there and either fingerprinted him or done something. When they came in there, I left. It was just a short period of time.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember any conversation that took place there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; except I asked him whether he drove a car. I did ask him that. And I remember him saying something that he didn't.

Mr. BELIN. That he did or did not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That he did not. And I asked him how long he was in Russia and whether he liked it there, and I remember him telling me how long he was there. I think it was two years, or something like that.

Mr. BELIN. Well----

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't remember exactly what he said, and he liked it okay, and that is just about it.

Mr. BELIN. Did you talk about the assassination at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; it wasn't anything at all concerned with the assassination.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask him any questions?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We did.

Mr. BELIN. Like what kind of questions?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Like where were you at the time this assassination occurred; and he just wouldn't say anything.

Mr. BELIN. Did he just keep quiet?

Mr. ADAMCIK. He just sat there and stared straight ahead.

Mr. BELIN. Didn't talk at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No.

Mr. BELIN. Did he ask for an attorney while you were there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not in my presence.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask him any questions about Officer Tippit's murder?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't believe that I did.

Mr. BELIN. Anyone else there that did?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't hear anybody.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, I just stayed at the office until about 2 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. BELIN. Ever see Oswald again?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I seen him being led out of the office from the interview, I believe. I didn't go down there.

Mr. BELIN. What interview?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I think they had--I don't know whether it was an interview or some kind of press conference down in the assembly room.

Mr. BELIN. When would that have been?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It would have been about midnight.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know if Oswald requested it or if someone else did?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall.

Mr. BELIN. Then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I stayed in the office after Captain Fritz and the other men came back. He told us to go on home and come back the next morning about 10 o'clock.

Mr. BELIN. Then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, I went home, and about 10 or shortly before 10, I came in, and Captain Fritz asked Detectives Rose and Stovall; and Detective Moore--at this time he was a regular partner of Rose and Stovall--asked me, since I was there the previous day, to go along back to Mrs. Paine's house for a little more complete search.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have a search warrant at this time?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; we stopped by and got a search warrant from Judge Joe B. Brown, Jr., over in Oak Cliff, and came by his house and picked up the search warrant.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the house?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We got out to the house. I didn't have a search warrant. One of the other detectives did. They told us to come on in, and they were there.

I remember at the time we came in, that they were going grocery shopping, and they left and just told us to look at anything we wanted to.

Mr. BELIN. The previous day had you taken anything out of the house?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did any of the officers take anything out of the house?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; some of the other officers did.

Mr. BELIN. What did they take?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall. I believe they took some camera equipment. It might have been a movie camera or projector. I didn't take anything. I know they took some items.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you remember?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; there weren't too many items the first day.

Mr. BELIN. What about the second day?

Mr. ADAMCIK. The second day we made a pretty complete search. We went mainly in the garage. We had also an Irving police officer. It was, I think, Detective McCabe from the Irving police department. And we went through the house and garage.

Mr. BELIN. What did you take with you?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we picked up--I got a list of it, also, which we turned over to the FBI, but we picked up items such as letters and pictures and oh, just a whole bunch of items.

Mr. BELIN. Did you find the picture of Oswald with the rifle?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't find it. It was found while I was back in the garage.

Mr. BELIN. That was found in the garage?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Any comments about that at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Naturally, when somebody found it, we all looked at it, and everybody said, "That looks like the rifle that was used in the assassination."

Mr. BELIN. Was Mrs. Paine or Mrs. Oswald there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No. At that time they weren't there. They were grocery shopping.

Mr. BELIN. Did you show the picture to them later on?

Mr. ADAMCIK. The picture was shown to them, but it wasn't there at the scene, and it was shown at the office, I understand.

Mr. BELIN. You weren't there when it was done?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, no other than--I didn't even begin to tell you what all we found. It was books and pictures and they found some of his stuff from the Marine Corps when he was in the Marine Corps, and a lot of Russian, I think they were books on the Russian language, and some vaccination certificates and stuff like that.

A lot of stuff was written in Russian, and we didn't have any idea what it said. Even the letters, a lot of them were written in Russian.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't recall anything pertaining to the search at all. I know that everything we--at the time, that we felt it was important, as far as investigation of the murder of the President and Officer Tippit was concerned, we took with us. There might have been some things we didn't take, but at the time the search was conducted, it was conducted more or less for each person at the same time, for the murder.

Mr. BELIN. Was an inventory made of the items taken?

Mr. ADAMCIK. There was. Yes; there was, definitely.

Mr. BELIN. You put that on file with the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. ADAMCIK. There was an inventory made, and there was receipts for all the property, and it is itemized. Everything is itemized.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you can think of?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I know the search took a pretty good while. We didn't get back to the office until about 4 p.m., so I assume we got there probably around 11 or 11:30, and we stayed there 3 or 4 hours.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else at all that you can think of that is important?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't know who found it. It was either Stovall or Rose.

Mr. BELIN. Officer Adamcik, I will hand you what appears to be a document from the Dallas Police Department entitled, "Property clerk's invoice or receipt." It is an inventory. It commences with page No. 11177G through 11193G, and ask you to state if this appears to be a copy of the inventory that you picked up out on your search there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Let me see if I can see all these. Yes; it is.

Mr. BELIN. All right, rather than offer it in this deposition, I believe you said that--who was the senior officer out there among you, or wasn't there any?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; there was. I was not the senior officer conducting the search. Probably Detective Rose, although I believe Detective Moore might have been previous, but since Detective Rose was there the previous day, he was spokesman for the group.

Mr. BELIN. Did Stovall work more with you or with Rose?

Mr. ADAMCIK. With Rose.

Mr. BELIN. I believe Mr. Ball is about to take the deposition of R. S. Stovall, and I think what we will do is give this inventory to Mr. Ball and let him introduce it in that deposition.

Mr. ADAMCIK. That first day I couldn't tell you anything because I was out of the house trying to take care of the kids.

Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else you can think of, officer, that we haven't discussed here?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No. The only thing is, after we finished conducting the search and got back to the office, I remember the previous day we didn't take an affidavit from Michael Paine, so Detective Moore and myself went back to Irving--should be around 5 o'clock, and picked up Mr. Paine and brought him back to the office for somebody to take an affidavit from him.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything, that you remember, when you were taking the affidavit, about the rifle or the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. He did. I was present when he said it, and it is in the affidavit, about seeing the blanket in which the rifle was wrapped in, or he assumed it was the blanket in which the rifle was wrapped.

Mr. BELIN. Did he know that it contained a rifle?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't think so. But he said he had seen it several times previous to the assassination.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about why he came to his wife's residence that day of the assassination?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes, sir; he did. I brought that out in the affidavit, and I remember something about him saying when he heard that the President got killed, well, knowing where it occurred and where Lee Oswald worked, and knowing his background, well, he said that Oswald's name came into his mind immediately.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say it came into his mind?

Mr. ADAMCIK. He said, knowing about his background and all--I remember just about what he said--that he knew that he would be asked to be considered a suspect, and--or that we would consider him a suspect, something. He didn't say who, but the way the situation was.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say what it was in his background that would make him considered to be a suspect?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It is in the affidavit, and I can't remember what he said. Whether he said it was because he was in Russia at one time, or something about him being a Russian citizen, or whether it was because for some other reason.

Anyway, it is in the affidavit. I can't think exactly what he said. It is worded pretty well, because he signed the affidavit and it is in his words. I can look at it.

Mr. BELIN. Here is an affidavit that appears to be signed by Michael Paine. He says that he felt concern for his wife, is that correct?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right; he did say that.

Mr. BELIN. He says that he saw a heavy pipelike object wrapped in a blanket, tied with a string. Is that what he said?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That is what he said.

Mr. BELIN. He said, "I picked it up to get it out of the way of the powersaw."

Mr. ADAMCIK. That is what he said.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say he had a lot of tools, and he mentioned he picked up this object and put it out of the way of his powersaw?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. And it says in the affidavit he thought it was tenting equipment. Is that what he said?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's right.

Mr. BELIN. He says later in the affidavit that he heard the President was shot while he was at work, is that correct?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. He said he heard the shots were from the Texas School Book Depository, and he said that he knew that Oswald worked there, and immediately thought of him, and wondered if he might have shot the President?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That is what he said.

Mr. BELIN. He says he wondered if he should call the FBI. Is that what he says in the affidavit?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's right, exactly.

Mr. BELIN. He says he thought it unlikely that he shot the President. Did he say that he thought it was unlikely that Oswald shot the President?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; he said that. And then he explained why he didn't call the FBI. He said he figured that--he did mention that the FBI knew about Oswald and that they would probably have contacted him and would consider him a suspect without him having to call them.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say why the FBI knew about Oswald?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; he didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of, sir?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I believe that is it. After we picked him up and took this affidavit just shortly after, I went on home and that was the end of it, until Sunday. Sunday I was off, and everything happened down there, luckily.

Mr. BELIN. Luckily you were off?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Sir; we want to thank you for your cooperation for coming down here. You have an opportunity to either let the deposition go directly to Washington, or you can come back and read it and sign it. You can waive the signing, or come back and read it and sign it, whatever you want to do.

Mr. ADAMCIK. About how long would it be before it is ready?

Mr. BELIN. Several days. You want to sign, or just let her send it on to us?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I would kind of like to look at it.

Mr. BELIN. All right, this lady will get in touch with you and you can take a look at it.

Mr. ADAMCIK. Okay.

TESTIMONY OF HENRY M. MOORE

The testimony of Henry M. Moore was taken at 11 a.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BELIN. Would you stand and raise your right hand and I will swear you here.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MOORE. I do.

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Moore, would you please state your name for the reporter.

Mr. MOORE. Henry M. Moore.

Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation, Mr. Moore?

Mr. MOORE. Police officer, city of Dallas.

Mr. BELIN. You were raised in Texas?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. How old are you?

Mr. MOORE. I am 39.

Mr. BELIN. Married?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Family?

Mr. MOORE. Five children.

Mr. BELIN. Your wife has her hands full with them?

Mr. MOORE. Sure does.

Mr. BELIN. Did you go to high school here in Dallas?

Mr. MOORE. No; Ennis, Ennis High School.

Mr. BELIN. Where is that located?

Mr. MOORE. That is south of Dallas bout 35 miles.

Mr. BELIN. Were you a graduate from high school?

Mr. MOORE. No, I didn't graduate.

Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through high school?

Mr. MOORE. Eighth.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. Went in the Service.

Mr. BELIN. Into the Armed Services?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Army or Navy?

Mr. MOORE. Paratroopers; Army.

Mr. BELIN. How long were you in the Paratroopers?

Mr. MOORE. Three years.

Mr. BELIN. When did you get out?

Mr. MOORE. January 11, 1946.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember that day?

Mr. MOORE. Very well.

Mr. BELIN. Honorably discharged?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after that?

Mr. MOORE. Oh, I fooled around on the farm about 3 years, and then I came to Dallas.

Mr. BELIN. Had you worked on the farm before you went into the Service?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Between the time you got out of school and the time you went into the Service?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. You went direct from school to the Service?

Mr. MOORE. Shortly afterward.

Mr. BELIN. You were on the farm for a while, and then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. Came to Dallas Police Department.

Mr. BELIN. What year was that?

Mr. MOORE. January 31, 1949.

Mr. BELIN. And you have been there ever since?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. What is your position there right now?

Mr. MOORE. Detective.

Mr. BELIN. Were you on duty on November 22 around noon?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. When were you to report to work that day?

Mr. MOORE. Four; 4:00 p.m.

Mr. BELIN. When did you report for work that day?

Mr. MOORE. Shortly after the assassination, soon as I could get to town.

Mr. BELIN. How shortly after?

Mr. MOORE. 1 or 1:30, somewhere around there. Maybe 2.

Mr. BELIN. You reported down at the main police station?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. MOORE. Well, I helped answer telephones mostly for, oh, I don't know, until the time I went out to North Beckley to search Oswald's room.

Mr. BELIN. At 1026 North Beckley?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; I believe that is right.

Mr. BELIN. About when was that?

Mr. MOORE. I am going to guess around 6 or so in the evening. The notes may show a little closer time.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have a search warrant?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know who got it?

Mr. MOORE. The Judge issued it. Judge David Johnston.

Mr. BELIN. Did he go with you there, too?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Who else went?

Mr. MOORE. District Attorney Bill Alexander and Detective F. M. Turner.

Mr. BELIN. You went to that address, and did the landlady--let me ask you this. You got to the door at 1026 North Beckley?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; we met some other officers there. They were already inside.

Mr. BELIN. At that time they found out that Lee Harvey Oswald lived there?

Mr. MOORE. I believe they had; yes.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. MOORE. We searched his room.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. Brought everything in the room to the city hall.

Mr. BELIN. You made a list of what you found there?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Anything in particular that you found there?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; one map, city of Dallas map, and it had several marks located on it.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

Mr. MOORE. Personal effects, clothing, radio, and gun scabbard.

Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?

Mr. MOORE. A holster.

Mr. BELIN. What kind of gun?

Mr. MOORE. .38 pistol, I believe it was.

Mr. BELIN. Did you find the gun itself, or just the holster?

Mr. MOORE. No; just the holster. I believe they had recovered the gun from him earlier in the day.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else there that you can establish?

Mr. MOORE. I believe I mentioned his clothing, personal effects?

Mr. BELIN. Some letters?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; I'm sure there were some letters and papers.

Mr. BELIN. Pamphlets?

Mr. MOORE. I am not sure. I believe there was some. I am not sure, though.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you a copy which appears to be a photostatic copy of a property clerk's invoice or receipt. By the way, how many times did you go to 1026 North Beckley?

Mr. MOORE. I only went one time.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone else search the room next day, or do you know?

Mr. MOORE. I don't know. I don't remember. I can't see any point. We brought everything that was in the room.

Mr. BELIN. You brought everything there? I am handing you pages marked on this police department, "City of Dallas property clerk's invoice or receipt No. 11194G through 11199G." Does this appear to be a copy of the inventory here?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; I believe it is.

Mr. BELIN. We will call that Moore Deposition Exhibit No. 1. I might state for the record that this appears to be--what was the last number I gave there--it looks like 11200G, and I might state for the record that these appear also in the Dallas police report file which is known in the President's Commission files as document 81B, pages 280-286, inclusive.

I note then on this list it states that the search warrant is dated November 23, 1963, which is 1 day later than the date that you made the search. Do you have any explanation for that?

Mr. MOORE. No; I wouldn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see the original search warrant at all, or not?

Mr. MOORE. I don't know.

Mr. BELIN. I also notice there appears to be included in these articles a driver's handbook of the State of Texas. Do you remember whether or not that was there?

Mr. MOORE. It would be hard to say any one personal item of that nature.

Mr. BELIN. In other words, you couldn't remember anything specifically there except you do know that you put down on the list, or participated in putting down on the list everything that was picked up there?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Is there anything on this list, to the best of your knowledge, that was not picked up out at 1026 North Beckley?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. I noticed that there is an envelope which is marked "Envelope containing receipt for post office box 6225, Dallas, Tex., dated November 11, 1963, for the period ending December 31, 1963." Do you have any independent recollection of that being there?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. By that, you mean you cannot specifically recall now except you do know that someone put it down on the list as being obtained from there?

Mr. MOORE. Right.

Mr. BELIN. I also note that one of the items appears to be a World Health Organization vaccination card, bearing the name of Lee Oswald, with the name of the vaccinator as A. J. Hidell, post office box 30016, New Orleans, La., with the date stamped June 8, 1963.

Do you remember anything like that, one of those health cards?

Mr. MOORE. Not specifically no.

Mr. BELIN. And it says that there is a passport there. Do you remember that at all?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. You remember specifically the passport?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then there is an application for a Texas driver's license, which appears as No. 450. Do you remember that at all?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; I do, since I have read the list. I remember the driver's license application.

Mr. BELIN. I hand you Commission Exhibit 426, and ask you to state if you know what that is?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. What is that?

Mr. MOORE. Application for Texas driver's license.

Mr. BELIN. You picked it up there or someone with you picked it up on that day that you searched the residence at Beckley?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; you find my initials on the back of it, I believe.

Mr. BELIN. Your initials, it says, HMM, 11-12-63. Those are your initials?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; and date.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know who FMT is, or are those initials there?

Mr. MOORE. I believe that will be F. M. Turner.

Mr. BELIN. F. M. Turner?

Mr. MOORE. I believe. That is the only one I could think of it would be.

Mr. BELIN. All right. About how long did you stay out there?

Mr. MOORE. Hour and a half, possibly.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. We drove back to the city hall.

Mr. BELIN. Now I assume then that you went through the property and marked it, and what have you. This took a little bit of time?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; it did.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else on that day that has anything else to do with the assassination of the President or the Tippit murder that you can think of offhand?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. The next day you reported for work about when?

Mr. MOORE. As soon after the Oswald shooting in the basement, as soon as I could get there. I live out of town.

Mr. BELIN. Wait, that is when Oswald was shot. I am not talking about Sunday. I am talking about Saturday. When did you search the Beckley premises? On Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?

Mr. MOORE. Saturday. No; we searched it on Friday. Irving on Saturday.

Mr. BELIN. Irving on Saturday. When did you get to work on Saturday?

Mr. MOORE. I believe I came in around 10 that morning.

Mr. BELIN. All right, you worked in the office for a while?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what you did offhand?

Mr. MOORE. Answered the phone.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. I went out with Stovall and Rose and Adamcik to Irving later in the day to search the residence at Irving.

Mr. BELIN. Would that be 2515 West Fifth Street in Irving?

Mr. MOORE. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Had a search warrant for that?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. You found several items there?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Made a list of those similar to this other list?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else? Do you remember any conversation you had out there with Mrs. Paine or Mrs. Oswald, Marina Oswald, or anyone else?

Mr. MOORE. When we arrived, they were preparing to leave and did leave. We had an Irving officer with us.

Mr. BELIN. Did they tell you to go ahead?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, they did; just go ahead and help ourselves. They said they would be back later, and I am not sure that they even returned before we left.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything particularly you found out there that stands out in your mind?

Mr. MOORE. Rose found the picture of Oswald holding the rifle.

Mr. BELIN. Did Rose show it to you out there?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, he did; at the time he found it.

Mr. BELIN. Were you near him when he found it.

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. How far away was he from you?

Mr. MOORE. This was a one-car garage, and it would have to be close. Four men searching in that garage. I would say a matter of 3 or 4 feet.

Mr. BELIN. What did Rose say to you when he found it?

Mr. MOORE. He said, "Look at this." Of course we all looked and commented on it.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. MOORE. Well, we continued our search, and after we had completed it, we again brought everything that we had picked up to our office.

Mr. BELIN. You made another list of it?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you did that day?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. Did you bring in Michael Paine for taking an affidavit from him, do you remember?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, I did. Mr. Adamcik and I went out and brought--we went back to the residence and brought him in later that day.

Mr. BELIN. You talked to him for a while?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, I did.

Mr. BELIN. Then you took the affidavit?

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then the next day was the 24th of November, Sunday. Were you on duty Sunday morning?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. When did you get to work on Sunday?

Mr. MOORE. Approximately 1 o'clock.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. MOORE. I am sure I worked around the office until the time that Rose and I went to Ruby's apartment.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have a search warrant for that?

Mr. MOORE. Yes. We went to Judge Joe B. Brown's residence and got the search warrant.

Mr. BELIN. Is it pretty much standard procedure at the Dallas Police Department to have a search warrant whenever you go to a person's premises?

Mr. MOORE. More or less.

Mr. BELIN. If you don't have a search warrant, what is your procedure when you come to the door? Just what do you do?

Mr. MOORE. If we do not have a search warrant?

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. MOORE. Well, it would all depend on why we were going, really. If we got a search warrant, if we were looking for stolen property, or things of that nature, we would most probably have one. If we did not have one, if people invited us in, it would be legal to be in the house anyway. And if they don't invite us in, or tell us we can't enter, then in all probability we will get a search warrant and go in anyway.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of that is important in any way that bears on this investigation?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. Officer Moore, do we call you officer or detective or mister?

Mr. MOORE. Either way.

Mr. BELIN. You have an opportunity, if you like, to come back and read this deposition and sign it before it comes to us in Washington, or you can just waive signing and let the court reporter send it to us directly in Washington. Do you have any preference or not?

Mr. MOORE. No.

Mr. BELIN. You want to sign, or do you want to waive signing it?

Mr. MOORE. What is the procedure?

Mr. BELIN. Well, if you sign it, you come back and read it and then you sign it if it is accurate; otherwise, you leave it and we assume the court reporter is accurate, and she will send it to us as the record of your testimony here.

Mr. MOORE. I believe I would rather read it. No reflection on the reporter.

Mr. BELIN. Well, she is too nice a reporter. If you would like to read it, why you certainly have that right, and the reporter will be getting in touch with you. Do we have your address, or can she contact you at the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. MOORE. Yes; she can.

Mr. BELIN. You can come in and read it and she will send it to us.

Mr. MOORE. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. We thank you very much for your splendid cooperation. Good-bye.

TESTIMONY OF F. M. TURNER

The testimony of F. M. Turner was taken at 2:30 p.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BELIN. Do you want to stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. TURNER. I do.

Mr. BELIN. Would you please state your name.

Mr. TURNER. F. M. Turner.

Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Turner?

Mr. TURNER. I live at Garland, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. That is a suburb of Dallas?

Mr. TURNER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation?

Mr. TURNER. Detective of the Dallas Police Department.

Mr. BELIN. How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. TURNER. About 13 years this September.

Mr. BELIN. How old are you?

Mr. TURNER. Thirty-five.

Mr. BELIN. Married?

Mr. TURNER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Family?

Mr. TURNER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Where were you born?

Mr. TURNER. Murphy, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. Spent all your life in Texas?

Mr. TURNER. Except for a couple of years in the service.

Mr. BELIN. Was that after you got out of high school?

Mr. TURNER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. How far did you go in high school?

Mr. TURNER. Finished.

Mr. BELIN. You finished high school?

Mr. TURNER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. TURNER. Went in the service.

Mr. BELIN. Was that high school in Murphy?

Mr. TURNER. No; it was Plano, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. Then you went in the service?

Mr. TURNER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. In the Army or Navy?

Mr. TURNER. Coast Guard.

Mr. BELIN. Coast Guard?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do there?

Mr. TURNER. I was a storekeeper.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have a discharge from the Coast Guard, too?

Mr. TURNER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you get an honorable discharge?

Mr. TURNER. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. TURNER. When I first came out, I went to work as a carpenter's helper up around Plano there. I worked at that a short while. And then I worked for the Plano Lumber Yard in Richardson, Tex., and I worked there until I came to work for the police department.

Mr. BELIN. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?

Mr. TURNER. I was.

Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with the motorcade?

Mr. TURNER. I did; yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What was your position?

Mr. TURNER. I was riding in the pilot car of the motorcade, possibly 3 minutes in front of the motorcade.

Mr. BELIN. Who else was with your car?

Mr. TURNER. Chief Lumpkin from our department.

Mr. BELIN. Is he an assistant chief of police?

Mr. TURNER. Deputy chief of police.

Mr. BELIN. Anyone else?

Mr. TURNER. My partner, Detective B. L. Senkel, and an Army major whose name I do not remember.

Mr. BELIN. You went to Love Field to meet the President?

Mr. TURNER. In the car also was a Secret Service man, whose name I do not remember. Yes, sir; I did go to Love Field to meet the President.

Mr. BELIN. You saw the plane arrive?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You got prepared to leave a little bit ahead of time of the motorcade?

Mr. TURNER. We did. We drove to a gate on the outward edge of Love Field and waited until we got some radio contact from the chief. They were about ready to leave, and we had a running start.

Mr. BELIN. How many channels did you have on your radio?

Mr. TURNER. Two.

Mr. BELIN. Which channel were you on?

Mr. TURNER. Channel 2.

Mr. BELIN. Was the entire motorcade on channel 2?

Mr. TURNER. The entire motorcade was on channel 2, and I believe there was a dispatcher at the central station on channel 2, that relayed some of the changes, and some of the messages were car to car, back and forth.

Mr. BELIN. Other police business would be on channel 1, at the time, or also on channel 2?

Mr. TURNER. Other police business was on channel 1.

Mr. BELIN. All right, you went through the city ahead of the actual motorcade, is that correct?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you keep track of where the motorcade was?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; by radio.

Mr. BELIN. By radio did you keep track of how fast the motorcade was going?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; by radio.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether or not there was any radio conversation as to how fast the motorcade was going at the time it got to Main and Houston?

Mr. TURNER. I don't recall.

Mr. BELIN. Who did you keep your primary radio contact with?

Mr. TURNER. Chief Curry.

Mr. BELIN. Now where were you when you first heard any signs of anything out of the ordinary?

Mr. TURNER. We were on Stemmons Freeway. I don't recall approximately, at the Oak Lawn exit, or somewhere right in that vicinity.

Mr. BELIN. What did you hear on the police radio?

Mr. TURNER. Well, I heard some conversation, either sounded like Curry's voice or Sheriff Decker's voice, who was riding in the car with him. I believe it said, sounded like Sheriff Decker said notify all men to get over there and cover off the area around this building there until some investigators could get there.

Mr. BELIN. Did you return to the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. TURNER. Well, yes; but I don't believe he mentioned that building. I believe he just mentioned the overpass over the Elm Street. He said cover off that area around the overpass, I believe.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see the President's car come by your car?

Mr. TURNER. Out on the expressway, I did; yes.

Mr. BELIN. Where was the President's car headed?

Mr. TURNER. Parkland Hospital.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

Mr. TURNER. We fell in behind it in our car.

Mr. BELIN. You went over to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. TURNER. We went up by the exit there and helped sort of control the crowd, and I never did go in. They unloaded the President's car.

Mr. BELIN. Did you watch them unload the President's car?

Mr. TURNER. Off and on, I mean, I was more or less mingling in the crowd, trying to restrain the crowd where they could have room to work.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see how they unloaded Governor Connally?

Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see how they unloaded the President?

Mr. TURNER. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?