Chapter XLII: Part 42

Captain LAWRENCE. If they saw them in time, but two men, in as large a crowd as that--these men had all they could handle, with as large a crowd as we had turn out for that motorcade. It was a full-time job keeping the crowd back, and this was what the officers were trying to do.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you given any thought, or do you have any suggestions as to how a police department the size of the Dallas Police Department could have stationed more men along the route so that they could have effectively--not only kept the crowd back but could have been effectively on the lookout for people who might want to rush out and do something?

Captain LAWRENCE. Well, looking back on it, I would say, with the manpower that we had for this particular job and the crowd that turned out, that without the use of precautions, these men would have a very difficult time keeping a crowd back like that. This crowd was an enthusiastic crowd, as you know, as you probably have heard many times, and it was a bigger crowd than I expected.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Is it practical for a city the size of Dallas to use barricades or ropes along the motorcade, the length of the one that the President traveled?

Captain LAWRENCE. Well, with the length of this motorcade, I don't believe that we could have on this short a notice, and this is my opinion. We would have to go to another source to get sufficient barricades to handle it, because I don't think we have that many barricades--I don't think that many barricades would be available for a motorcade as long as this one.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Does the police department maintain barricades?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; the barricades are obtained from the public works department. We have been able to request barricades to barricade off streets at certain events on holidays and parks. We have asked for barricades and we have always received barricades.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you give any specific instructions to your men with respect to watching windows?

Captain LAWRENCE. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you give any specific instructions to the people who were stationed along Elm and Houston at the intersection of Elm and Houston, the man at Houston in particular, did you direct any particular attention to those men who were stationed there?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I did not make the individual assignments, but as I said, the only thing I did was make these remarks as to these particular assignments in stating that they would be made by these officers, and, of course, there were some assignments made in this area and there were also some assignments made to the overpass.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anything that would be in the general orders or the general background and training of the police officers who were stationed along this route which would make the individual police officer believe that it was his responsibility to watch the windows of buildings?

Captain LAWRENCE. I don't recall any specific instructions of that kind ever being given on an assignment of this type, because--again--as I said, with the manpower that was assigned and the crowd they had to control, that the officer had all he could take care of in maintaining crowd control of the people on the streets and watching the crowd there.

I am talking about the men that were assigned for these specific assignments here. I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Would the duties of the men at the intersections be so burdensome prior to the time that the motorcade actually arrived that they couldn't keep their eyes on the windows and other places such as that? In other words, did they have anything to do of substance until shortly before the motorcade arrived?

Captain LAWRENCE. They had everything they could do to take care of the crowds when I came through there before the President's motorcade--keeping the crowds back, in fact, when I was listening on channel 2 I heard Inspector Sawyer asking for more help for men downtown to try to keep the crowds back so the motorcade could get through there.

Mr. GRIFFIN. When an officer is at an intersection for the purpose of crowd control, do his problems begin as soon as the crowd begins to form, regardless of how long it is before the President is going to arrive, or does the problem only become a substantial one when he realizes the President is 5 minutes away?

Captain LAWRENCE. I think when he first goes on assignment, that's when he's prepared to handle the crowd.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, is there a danger that the crowd is going to move out into the street at any point as soon as it gets large enough where the people start to push and shove?

Captain LAWRENCE. This did happen in the downtown area and this was substantially before the President's car actually arrived. This is why, I believe, and I am assuming, because I was ahead of this motorcade, but I heard Chief Curry ask these motorcycle officers that were way up ahead to drop back, and some of them that were alongside and to the rear of the President, to pull up alongside his car, and Chief Curry had some of these motorcycle officers that were supposed to be about a couple of blocks ahead of this motorcade, he asked them to drop back. He asked the lead motorcycles that were supposed to be a half block ahead of the escort--he asked them to drop back.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, is it fair to say that without specific instructions, that an officer would not watch the windows of buildings? He would not do it as a result of routine orders that prevail in the police department and his general training.

Captain LAWRENCE. I would say in a case like this that an officer should do this and this should be part of his responsibility on the job, but I also have to say he was not given any specific instructions to do that as far as buildings were concerned, but I'm talking about the men assigned to this traffic assignment.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Are there any other specific instructions besides watching the windows of buildings that, as a result of your experience on November 22, you think should be given to police officers who have traffic assignments?

Captain LAWRENCE. As a result of what happened on November 22, I believe that where a Head of State, the President of the United States, comes to Dallas and is in a motorcade or a parade, that the streets should be barricaded or roped off and that officers--more officers than were stationed be stationed along the route to control the crowd. I mean, of course, this is looking back--as I told you before--there were more people along the route--in fact, I was surprised--they had even stopped their cars all along Stemmons Freeway.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Of course, we are trying to benefit from hindsight, when I asked you if in looking back you could make some suggestions for the future.

Captain LAWRENCE. That's right.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Could a police force the size of the Dallas police force have found more officers to man the route?

Captain LAWRENCE. With a route as long as this, I doubt that they could have, because some of these officers were given second and third assignments and this motorcade route, as long as it was, was in my opinion--this was too long of a motorcade route to give the proper security, and our department wasn't big enough to handle an event--of course, this is hindsight again--and an event like this with a route as long as this to cover all of the cross streets, because we certainly didn't cover all of the cross streets along the route except the downtown area. We covered some of the main ones and there were other streets that were not covered and the people themselves block the streets for the motorcade.

Mr. GRIFFIN. You have with you here a list of the assignments you made on November 22?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; I do.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you give that to us so we can mark it for identification?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes, sir; would you mind me explaining a couple of them?

Mr. GRIFFIN. No; not at all, if you think it is necessary.

Captain LAWRENCE. There were some changes made.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to mark this as Capt. W. P. Lawrence Deposition, July 24, 1964, Exhibit No. 2. Do you want to indicate what clarification you would make in the assignments that are shown on Exhibit No. 2?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the morning of November 22, the streets were still wet and it was raining that morning and I talked to Asst. Chief Batchelor about some of the motorcade assignments and he agreed with me that no car, no motorcycle officer, should pass the President's car, so we reassigned some officers indicated by asterisks on this detail to cover the Stemmons Freeway traffic lanes to the rear of the escort to prevent any vehicles from passing the presidental party, and that's shown on the detail. Also, as I say--you can see the asterisks here beside these officers and they were changed. Also, I felt that because of the curvature of Stemmons Freeway and these people coming over a crest and around a curve--that they would be on top of these motorcycle officers and would not have warning enough. I discussed placing a couple of the three-wheel motorcycle officers up further on Stemmons Expressway, which would be back farther south, so that when they saw from the top of Stemmons Expressway this motorcade approaching, they could start stopping the traffic before it came around the curve and down the hill because of the speed. For this reason, two officers were stationed--their assignment was changed and they were placed--they were stationed up on Stemmons Freeway for the purpose of starting to stop this traffic themselves.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything else on there that you think should be clarified?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening--I'm going back a day, but on the evening of November 21, I was handed a list of additional men from the Third Patrol Platoon to work traffic assignments. Here is the list--you can have this list.

Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.

Captain LAWRENCE. This necessitated me making some changes so that the three-wheel motorcycle officers could be taken off of corner assignments and placed on patrol assignments in the downtown area, and those assignments, or some of those patrol assignments are shown on the last page of this.

Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.

Captain LAWRENCE. The changes you can see were made in ink. There was one particular assignment, on page 3, that we had eliminated because we understood that the Highland Park Police would cover Lemmon and Loma Alto and then when these additional men were given to us, two officers were placed back on this assignment.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I have marked the additional list of 19 men, which list you received on November 22, as Capt. P. W. Lawrence, July 24, 1964, Exhibit No. 3. Let me ask you some specific questions about it--about the men who were stationed in the area of Dealey Plaza. Did you question any of these men after the President was shot to determine whether or not they had seen anyone in the windows of the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; however, when I questioned the men--the men had already been--one man that I questioned had already been questioned by Mr. Sorrels and this would be Officer J. E. Murphy and two other men that I questioned were Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White. I questioned J. W. Foster regarding the men that were alongside him on the overpass, on the triple underpass where the President was to go.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you question Sergeant Harkness?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I didn't question Sergeant Harkness.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you question Officer King--W. K. King?

Captain LAWRENCE. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you question Officer J. B. Allen?

Captain LAWRENCE. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you question Officer W. H. Denham?

Captain LAWRENCE. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Or Officer W. E. Barnett?

Captain LAWRENCE. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Officer J. M. Smith?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I did not.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Officer E. L. Smith?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I did not.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know of anyone in the police department who questioned those men after the assassination to determine whether or not they had been observing the windows of the Texas School Book Depository Building and had seen anybody in those buildings?

Captain LAWRENCE. I know that all of these men have been questioned and that they were calling all of these men to be questioned and that this investigation was being handled by the Secret Service, and this is one reason why I did not question these men.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you received any information that any of these men did see anybody at the windows of the Texas School Book Depository Building, particularly on the sixth floor?

Captain LAWRENCE. I have never received any information from any of these men that they saw anybody up there.

Mr. GRIFFIN. You have answered that you did not conduct an investigation of these men and that you thought the Secret Service did; let me ask the further question--has the police department conducted an investigation of these men who were at the intersections of Main and Houston and Elm and Houston?

Captain LAWRENCE. To my knowledge, they were--there was an investigation requested.

Mr. GRIFFIN. By the police department?

Captain LAWRENCE. By the police department--that reports were requested from these men, by the supervisory officers, but--and by the inspectors and the deputy chiefs--but I was not given any such assignment.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me turn to the movement of Lee Harvey Oswald and ask you when did you first receive instructions as to the moving of Lee Harvey Oswald to the county jail?

Captain LAWRENCE. I received no original instructions on the movement of Lee Harvey Oswald. I was scheduled to be off on Saturday and Sunday. These were my days off. On Saturday at approximately 10 a.m., I came down in civilian clothes and I observed a large crowd of people around the county courthouse and I had knowledge from what I had heard on television and I had seen on television and heard on the radio that charges had already been filed against Lee Harvey Oswald, so it was my assumption that he would be transferred to the county jail, but I had no knowledge of it; and seeing this large crowd gathering down at this part of town, I immediately called the traffic office and started trying to contact Sergeant Harkness and finally got him down there and told him to get some other traffic officers down there and I remained down at this location until approximately 6:30 p.m. when Captain Thompson came on duty. While down there and during the afternoon, I noticed there was a large crowd gathered and there seemed to be a need for barricades or ropes or something to keep these people behind these ropes and across the street from the county jail, and I called Chief Batchelor's office, and Officer Art Hammett answered the phone and I told Art Hammett there was a large crowd down there, and this was early in the afternoon--I would say about 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Saturday--and there was a large crowd there and I believe that ropes or barricades were necessary to keep these people out of the streets and across the street at Dealey Plaza, and Hammett said he would try to get in touch with Chief Batchelor and let me know.

On Saturday afternoon I got a call on the radio, and, of course, it was a three-wheel motorcycle with the radio going, and Officer Hammett asked me and I am assuming he was in the dispatcher's office at the time, and he asked me if the ropes that I requested were to block off the street for motor vehicle traffic and I told him it was not, and he said, "Well, permission is granted." Then, we borrowed some rope from the sheriff's office and we roped off this block across the street from the county jail. We also got some barricades from Elm and Houston where a--where part of the street had been blocked off there anyway, and we blocked off the sidewalks on the county jail side--at Houston and Elm Street, and Main Street, and the only persons we allowed in this area were television, radio, and news media people.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you take any further precautions on Sunday?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes. By the way, when Captain Thompson came on, I contacted him by radio and asked him to meet me down there and he relieved me and our solo motorcycle detail was placed down there in the evening. When I got home I called Chief Lunday at home and I told him--that's when I heard that the transfer was supposed to be made the following morning, that there would be a need for some more men down there and that I would be down there and I would get as many men as I could on the location. So on Sunday morning I arrived down there and I'm going to guess at the time as approximately 8 a.m. I first went by the office and I picked up some police reserves in my car and took about four of them down there with me, and then I had some motorcycle officers that were not already stationed--upstairs on the third floor--and I had them meet me down there too. It was still roped off and the crowds started gathering and I personally instructed Sergeant Steigel to go down there and Sergeant Bellah, and most of the men down there, I personally instructed them that when Oswald was brought in down there, that they were not to look at Oswald, that they were to face the crowd and they were not to worry about anything but keeping their eyes on that crowd, because I estimated there were approximately 500 people down there at that time, and these officers were specifically instructed on that. And when Chief Lunday showed up at approximately--sometime between 9:30 and 10, he showed up--he arrived in civilian clothes--he saw that there was a large crowd there too and we were concerned about the security of Oswald, and I expressed this opinion to Chief Lunday and Lieutenant Southard also. There with me at the time too was Captain Solomon, who also showed up down there. The only time that I knew that anything had happened was when Sheriff Bill Decker came out of his office and came by the cameras there where the vehicle was supposed to enter the county jail entrance there, and he waved for me to come over to him. I was across the street at that time and he told me that Oswald had been shot in the basement of the city hall. So, after this was confirmed, we then sent some more men to Parkland Hospital to seal it off.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have anything to do with the stationing of men along the route that it was expected that Oswald was to follow?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I didn't.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever receive any specific instructions from any of your superiors on stationing your men around Dealey Plaza or the county jail or did the precautions that you took--were they undertaken on your own initiative?

Captain LAWRENCE. I would say that I notified Chief Lunday of the situation down there and then he told me to go ahead and station these men there.

Mr. GRIFFIN. But there never was any independent effort made by your superior officers to contact you prior to the move and say, "Captain Lawrence, we are going to move Oswald at such and such a time, or in such and such a way, and take such and such precautions"?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I believe though that Chief Lunday was in communication with headquarters because he went immediately after he talked to Lieutenant Southard and I and saw this crowd too, he immediately went inside the sheriff's office and it is my assumption that he had communication with them because he came out a little later and told me about the plans--how Oswald was to be brought down and that he would not be brought down in the armored truck, but that the armored truck would come Elm Street and would make a left turn off of Elm, and when it did, this car with the detectives in it would come first and the car with Oswald would turn into the ramp there at the county jail and they would lower the gates immediately. At that time Chief Lunday was in charge down there.

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long were you informed of this plan to bring Oswald in a police car; how long before you actually knew Oswald was shot did you learn about that plan?

Captain LAWRENCE. I would say approximately 10 minutes--I'm just guessing--I know it was just shortly after that that I heard he was shot.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you ever informed that the armored car had arrived at the police station?

Captain LAWRENCE. No; I had no knowledge of an armored car until Chief Lunday told me about it and at the same time he was telling me about it, a sergeant arrived down there from the radio patrol and was giving Chief Lunday some information to the same effect, that the armored car was going to be used as a decoy.

Mr. GRIFFIN. But maybe I didn't make my question clear--was any information ever passed on to the people at the county jail that the decoy car had arrived in the city basement?

Captain LAWRENCE. Not to my knowledge. I was outside all the time.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I think we have pretty well covered everything here. I'm going to ask you if you will sign Exhibit No. 1 and also Exhibits Nos. 2 and 3.

Captain LAWRENCE. This man did not show up and he was given some other assignment.

Mr. GRIFFIN. That is the No. 3 man there on that list?

Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; he was given some other assignment.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me mark one more paper here--this is a copy of a letter that you wrote.

Captain LAWRENCE. That's a copy of a letter that I wrote that you probably have in the file there.

Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a letter you wrote to Chief Curry on July 15 detailing what you did on November 22, and I am going to mark it Capt. P. W. Lawrence Deposition, July 24, 1964, Exhibit No. 4, and I will ask you if you will sign that up at the top also. Do you have anything else, captain, you would like to add?

Captain LAWRENCE. Oh, I guess this probably has been mentioned to you before--there are some people that were down there--Captain Solomon and I discussed the fact that we were rather shocked at the crowd that was down there when they announced that Oswald--when they heard that Oswald had been shot--about them cheering, but this was an actual fact, and I thought it was a terrible thing myself, it broke me up too, this killing of the President, but as I said, this was a real shock that these people cheered like this. This just showed the attitude of some of them that were down there. I can't think of anything else.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to thank you for coming here and taking this time. All of the members of your department who have been here have really given very generously of their time and cooperated and we are all very appreciative of it.

Captain LAWRENCE. I did learn of some new security measures from this unfortunate experience. I refer to the manner in which the Secret Service handled the transfer of President Johnson and his party from Parkland Hospital, the plans for this transfer in unmarked cars, the solo escorts and positioning of the vehicles en route to Love Field. First, the Secret Service personnel made arrangements for three unmarked cars to be placed in a "ready" position at the rear of Parkland without the knowledge of the news media or other persons. Three cars were so arranged. The first car was Chief Curry's unmarked car, the second car was my unmarked car, and the third car was Inspector Putnam's unmarked car. I was instructed to have two solo officers ready to go but not to give them their destination until we started to leave--these instructions were from the Secret Service. When President Johnson came out of the hospital with his party he was immediately taken to Chief Curry's lead vehicle. Other White House and Secret Service personnel got in my car, as they did in Inspector Putnam's car. I instructed the solo officers to escort us to Love Field. As we left Parkland Hospital the solo officers started using their sirens and shortly thereafter Chief Curry came on the police radio and requested them to cut the sirens off. Chief Curry repeated these instructions about three or four times and after several blocks the officers cut off their sirens. One of the Secret Service men in my vehicle instructed me as to how to position my vehicle to the rear of Chief Curry's car and I also noticed in the rear view mirror that Inspector Putnam's vehicle was positioned in such a way that it would be difficult for any other car to overtake this escort. After the solo motorcycle officers cut off their sirens they went ahead and stopped traffic at various intersections so that it was not necessary for any of the cars in President Johnson's party to stop. I was quite impressed with the quick efficient planning of the Secret Service in getting the President and his party safely to the airport and the security precautions taken while en route to Love Field. You know--this thing--something like this, this just really hits you. You are so busy you don't know it, but it just finally really hits you down deep.

Mr. GRIFFIN. There's not very much I guess really that can be said--it's one of these events that is so shocking in our lifetime.

Captain LAWRENCE. Too--Chief Curry was really torn up about it--out at Parkland Hospital he held himself real good--I guess we all were.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; we all were. Thank you very much for coming.

Captain LAWRENCE. Thank you.

AFFIDAVIT OF RONALD G. WITTMUS

The following affidavit was executed by Ronald G. Wittmus on July 30, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, _ss_:

I, Ronald G. Wittmus, have reviewed the testimony of Sebastian Francis Latona before The President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy and I agree with the conclusions stated therein.

I have conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Latona's testimony and on the basis of these independent examinations I reached the same conclusions reached by Sebastian Francis Latona.

Signed this 30th day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S) Ronald G. Wittmus,
RONALD G. WITTMUS.

AFFIDAVIT OF THOMAS J. KELLEY

The following affidavit was executed by Thomas J. Kelley on July 30, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, _ss_:

I, Thomas J. Kelley, being duly sworn say:

1. I am an Inspector in the United States Secret Service assigned to Secret Service Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

2. On November 24, 1963, I attended the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald in the Dallas Police Station. Those present included: Captain Fritz; Forrest Sorrels of the United States Secret Service; Postal Inspector Harry Holmes; and several Dallas Police Officers.

3. It is my recollection that during this interrogation, Oswald was not asked about nor did he speak of a trip that he took to Mexico or plans that he had to go to Cuba.

Signed this 30th day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S) Thomas J. Kelley,
THOMAS J. KELLEY.

AFFIDAVIT OF ROBERT A. FRAZIER

The following affidavit was executed by Robert A. Frazier on July 31, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, _ss_:

I, Robert A. Frazier, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, do hereby state that I have reviewed the testimonies of Cortlandt Cunningham on March 11 and April 1, 1964, before the President's Commission on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and I agree with the conclusions stated therein.

I do hereby state that I conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Cunningham's testimonies and that on the basis of these independent examinations, I reached the same conclusions reached by Mr. Cunningham.

Signed this 31st day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S) Robert A. Frazier,
ROBERT A. FRAZIER.

AFFIDAVIT OF CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM

The following affidavit was executed by Cortlandt Cunningham on July 31, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, _ss_:

I, Cortlandt Cunningham, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, do hereby state that I have reviewed the testimonies of Robert A. Frazier on March 31 and May 13, 1964, before the President's Commission on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and I agree with the conclusions stated therein.

I do hereby state that I conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Frazier's testimonies and that on the basis of these independent examinations, I reached the same conclusions reached by Mr. Frazier.

Signed this 31st day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S) Cortlandt Cunningham,
CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM.

AFFIDAVIT OF CHARLES L. KILLION

The following affidavit was executed by Charles L. Killion on July 31, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, _ss_:

I, Charles L. Killion, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, do hereby state that I have reviewed the testimonies of Robert A. Frazier on March 31 and May 13, 1964, and testimonies of Cortlandt Cunningham on March 11 and April 1, 1964, before the President's Commission on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and I agree with the conclusions stated therein.

I do hereby state that I conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Cunningham's and Mr. Frazier's testimonies and that on the basis of these independent examinations, I reached the same conclusions reached by Mr. Frazier and Mr. Cunningham.

Signed this 31st day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S) Charles L. Killion,
CHARLES L. KILLION.

AFFIDAVIT OF ROY SANSOM TRULY

The following affidavit was executed by Roy Sansom Truly on August 3, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss_:

I, Roy Sansom Truly, being duly sworn say:

1. I am the Superintendent of the Texas School Book Depository Building in Dallas, Texas.

2. The door opening on the vestibule of the lunchroom on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building is usually shut because of a closing mechanism on the door.

Signed this 3d day of August 1964, at Dallas Tex.

(S) Roy Sansom Truly,
ROY SANSOM TRULY.

AFFIDAVIT OF FORREST V. SORRELS

The following affidavit was executed by Forrest V. Sorrels on August 6, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss_:

I, Forrest V. Sorrels, being duly sworn say:

1. I am the Special Agent in Charge of the Dallas district of the United States Secret Service.

2. On November 24, 1963, I attended the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald in the Dallas Police Station. Those present included: Captain Fritz; Thomas J. Kelley, Inspector of the United States Secret Service; Postal Inspector Harry Holmes; and several Dallas City Detectives.

3. I do not recall that during this interrogation Oswald being questioned about or him making statements about a trip that he took to Mexico or plans that he had to go to Cuba.

Signed this 6th day of August 1964, at Dallas, Tex.

(S) Forrest V. Sorrels,
FORREST V. SORRELS.

AFFIDAVIT OF JOHN JOE HOWLETT

The following affidavit was executed by John Joe Howlett on August 11, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss_:

I, John Joe Howlett, being duly sworn say:

1. I am an agent in the Dallas office of the United States Secret Service.

2. On March 20, 1964, counsel to the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy timed me as I walked from the southeast corner of the sixth floor to the second floor lunchroom by the stairway in the Texas School Book Depository Building.

3. During this test, I carried a rifle from the southeast corner of the sixth floor northerly along the east aisle to the northeast corner, then westerly along the north wall past the elevators to the northwest corner. There I placed the rifle on the floor. I then entered the stairwell, walked down the stairway to the second floor landing, and then into the lunchroom.

4. After the second test which was run at a "fast walk," I was not short-winded.

Signed this 11th day of August 1964, at Dallas, Tex.

(S) John Joe Howlett,
JOHN JOE HOWLETT.

AFFIDAVIT OF MARRION L. BAKER

The following affidavit was executed by Marrion L. Baker on August 11, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss_:

I, Marrion L. Baker, being duly sworn say:

1. I am an officer in the Dallas Police Department.

2. On November 22, 1963, upon hearing shots I rode my motorcycle 180 to 200 feet, parked the motorcycle, and ran 45 feet to the Texas School Book Depository Building.

3. On March 20, 1964, counsel from the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy timed a re-enactment of my actions after hearing the shots on November 22, 1963. During this re-enactment, I reached the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building fifteen seconds after the time of the simulated shot.

Signed this 13th day of August 1964, at Dallas, Tex.

(S) Marrion L. Baker,
MARRION L. BAKER.

AFFIDAVIT OF ROBERT BROCK

The following affidavit was executed by Robert Brock on August 5, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

I, Robert Brock, being duly sworn, depose as follows:

I now reside at 3519 30th Street, Lubbock, Texas. On January 21, 1964, I was residing at 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas. On January 21, 1964, I was interviewed by Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation concerning what I had seen on November 22, 1963, as it related to Lee Harvey Oswald and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

I have been shown the written report[C] of the results of my interview with Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on January 21, 1964. I have read this written report and it represents a correct report of what I saw on November 22, 1963.

Signed this 5th day of August 1964.

(S) Robert Brock,
ROBERT BROCK.

[C] This report was labeled Robert Brock Exhibit A.

AFFIDAVIT OF MARY BROCK

The following affidavit was executed by Mary Brock on August 5, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

I, Mary Brock, being duly sworn, depose as follows:

I now reside at 3519 30th Street, Lubbock, Texas. On January 21, 1964, I was residing at 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas. On January 21, 1964, I was interviewed by Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation concerning what I had seen on November 22, 1963, as it related to Lee Harvey Oswald and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

I have been shown the written report[D] of the results of my interview with Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on January 21, 1964. I have read this written report and it represents a correct report of what I saw on November 22, 1963.

Signed this 5th day of August 1964.

(S) Mary Brock,
MARY BROCK.

[D] This report was labeled Mary Brock Exhibit A.

AFFIDAVIT OF HAROLD RUSSELL

The following affidavit was executed by Harold Russell on August 10, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

I, Harold Russell, being duly sworn, depose as follows:

I now reside at U.S. Highway 77 S., Davis, Okla. On January 21, 1964, I was residing at on North Clinton, Dallas, Texas, and was employed as a salesman by Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 East Jefferson, Dallas, Texas. On January 21, 1964, I was interviewed by Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation concerning what I had seen on November 22, 1963, as it related to Lee Harvey Oswald, the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J. D. Tippit, and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

I have been shown the written report[E] of the results of the interview by Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on January 21, 1964. I have read this written report and it represents a correct report of what I saw on November 22, 1963.

Signed this 10th day of August 1964.

(S) Harold Russell,
HAROLD RUSSELL.

[E] This report was labeled Russell Exhibit A.

AFFIDAVIT OF DAVID GOLDSTEIN

The following affidavit was executed by David Goldstein on August 13, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss_:

I, David Goldstein, 6111 Averill Way, Apartment D, Dallas, Tex., being duly sworn say:

1. I am and have been for several years owner of Dave's House of Guns, 2544 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas.

2. Dave's House of Guns has handled Smith and Wesson .38/200 British Service Revolvers. Within ten days after the assassination of President Kennedy, F.B.I. agents called on me to determine if Dave's House of Guns had any record of handling a Smith and Wesson .38/200 British Service Revolver, serial number V 510210 and assembly number 65248. We had no such record.

3. After being shown a photograph of the above gun, I showed the F.B.I. agents a catalog which listed such guns and indicated that they were handled by George Rose and Company, Inc., 1225 South Grand Avenue, Los Angeles, California.

Signed this 13th day of August 1964.

(S) David Goldstein,
DAVID GOLDSTEIN.

Transcriber's Notes:

Punctuation and spelling were made consistent when a predominant preference was found in this book; otherwise they were not changed.

Misspellings in quoted evidence not changed; misspellings that could be due to mispronunciations were not changed.

Some simple typographical errors were corrected.

Inconsistent hyphenation of compound words retained.

Ambiguous end-of-line hyphens retained.

Occasional uses of "Mr." for "Mrs." and of "Mrs." for "Mr." corrected.

Dubious repeated words, (e.g., "What took place by way of of conversation?") retained.

Several unbalanced quotation marks not remedied.

Occasional periods that should be question marks not changed.

Occasional periods that should be commas, and commas that should be periods, were changed only when they clearly had been misprinted (at the end of a paragraph or following a speaker's name in small-caps at the beginning of a line). Some commas and semi-colons were printed so faintly that they appear to be periods or colons: some were found and corrected, but some almost certainly remain.

Text in quotations is not indented unless it was indented in the source.

"Air Force 1" usually is in italics, but in a few instances was printed upright as "Air Force I".

Page 153: "Mr. Dhority. They identified Oswald as the No. 2 man in the lineup." probably was asked by Mr. Ball, not stated by Mr. Dhority.

Page 160: "I could have heard, that" has misprinted comma after "heard".

Page 163: "we we still" probably is misprint for "we were still".

Page 195: "he had make a snapshot" is misprint for "made".

Page 247: "until my discharge in 1944" was printed that way, but is inconsistent with being after World War II.

Page 260: "Will you state you name" is misprint for "your".

Page 263: "running, from the scene" has misprinted comma after "running".

Page 272: "I took here into the" is misprint for "her".

Page 284: "no bad pressure?" is misprint for "back".

Page 302: "sit and each lunch with him" is misprint for "eat".

Page 326: "raise your right and be sworn" is missing "hand".

Page 333: The Index referenced in Footnote 1 may not be available at Project Gutenberg.

Page 359: "Dallas Time Herald Television Station" is misprint for "Times".

Page 422: "in both the know and questioned" is misprint for "known".

Page 457: "deal with an particular" is misprint for "any".

Page 436: "distoration" was printed that way.

Page 539: "that we taken" probably is missing "had".