Chapter XIV: Part 14

Mr. JENNER. Well, you were seen sketching the countryside.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And that aroused suspicion.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. That is the whole thing.

Mr. JENNER. Now, you were driving cross-country, were you not, with this lady friend of yours?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And on the way back then from Aransas Pass----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Some characters stopped the car and came out of the bushes, and they said, "You are a German spy." They said, "You are a German citizen, you are a German spy." It was very strange. Here is my Polish passport. So--they never said anything about sketching. I thought they were from some comedy actors.

Mr. JENNER. Didn't they identify themselves?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think they said they were from the FBI.

Mr. JENNER. They might have been from some other government service.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Maybe some other government service. But I have the impression they told me they were from the FBI, and they followed me all the way from New York--all the way from New York.

Mr. JENNER. In any event, five men stopped you at that time, searched your car?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Searched the car, found absolutely nothing, except the water colors, the sketches. I still have the sketches.

Mr. JENNER. With that experience, did you proceed on into Mexico?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. They were very insulting to this Mexican lady, very insulting. And I think she made a complaint about them later on to the Mexican Ambassador. And being a vicious Mexican girl, she doesn't forget that. I think she told them they stole something from her. That I do not recall exactly.

Mr. JENNER. As near as I can tell, she never made any such complaint officially.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think she told me she will complain officially.

Mr. JENNER. She complained, but she never complained anything was stolen.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. You reached Mexico City?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And--with this lady.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you remained in Mexico how long?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, that is 5 months, 6 months--until they expelled me from Mexico.

Mr. JENNER. Does this refresh your recollection--that you made a statement in 1945 when you were questioned that you remained in Mexico City for approximately 9 months, not doing much of anything except painting and going around with Lilia?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. I did something. I invested some money in a sugar factory there. I visited a sugar company there, and the manager of the sugar company told me to invest some money in that outfit, because it was going to--the stock was going to go up, which I did. I made some nice money out of that investment.

Mr. JENNER. You had funds when you went into Mexico, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. You had some letters of credit?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Would that amount to around $6,000?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Probably.

Mr. JENNER. Did you travel to various places in Mexico during this 9 months with this lady?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Now----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I had an apartment on my own in Mexico City, on Avenue De--the main street of Mexico City. I don't recall the name. Paseo de la reforma.

Mr. JENNER. Towards the end of that 9 months you ran into some difficulty in Mexico, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Boy, did I get in difficulty.

Mr. JENNER. Was there a man by the name of Maxino Comacho?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. General in the Mexican Army.

Mr. JENNER. And as a result of--just give me that in capsule form.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think he wanted to take my girl friend away from me. We were going to get married.

Mr. JENNER. You were serious about that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very serious. She was getting a divorce. I think by the time she got to Mexico--she already got a Mexican divorce. I am sure she did. She was already free.

Mr. JENNER. She had a Mexican divorce, but there was some question about whether it was good in the United States?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right; something like that. Anyway, she was getting a divorce. She was an exceedingly beautiful person. We thought about getting married. And then this character intervened and had me thrown out of the country.

Mr. JENNER. I am not interested in his accusation, but he made some accusation?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He did, really?

Mr. JENNER. I am asking you.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; no accusation. He said, "You are persona non grata in Mexico." I actually went to the American Embassy, as far as I remember, and said, "I am a resident of the United States, and why am I being thrown out of the country?" I don't know if they have done anything about it. Anyway, they suggested for me to leave, and go back to the States.

Mr. JENNER. You didn't leave immediately, did you?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I went into hiding for a few days, because some Mexican friends tried to have it all fixed. I remember the names of those Mexicans who tried to help me.

Mr. JENNER. Manuel Garza; was he one of them?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And your attorney?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; and Cuellar, another attorney. He is still a good friend of mine.

Mr. JENNER. You then returned to the United States?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. They said, "That is the best way for you, to leave, because you cannot fight against the constitutional forces of Mexico."

Mr. JENNER. While in Mexico, you engaged in no espionage for anybody?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.

Mr. JENNER. You were in love with this lady?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER. And you saw her frequently, and her friends and other friends, and did some traveling around Mexico?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Where did you get the money to do that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, $6,000, you know. And then we shared alike. And I told you that life in Mexico was very cheap at the time. You could live on a hundred dollars a month. One of my best friends there at the time was a young MacArthur boy.

Mr. JENNER. General MacArthur's son?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Nephew, the son of MacArthur, the playwright. He was also living in Mexico, very close friends. We made some trips together. The son of John MacArthur.

Mr. JENNER. You eventually returned to America, to the United States?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. You went back to New York?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. By train?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. As a matter of fact, you went by chair car?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That I didn't remember. How did you know that? I don't remember, frankly. Those FBI people are excellent in following a chair car. But, believe me, they are very often----

Mr. JENNER. Was it about this time when you returned that you started to work on your book, "A Son of the Revolution"?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Now, we are in what year--about 1942, 1943?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, about that.

Mr. JENNER. 1942, I think.

Now, upon your return to New York, what did you do?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I was working on that book. I sold that interest in the sugar company--that is, the Mexican outfit I told you about--and then I remember once I went to Palm Beach.

Mr. JENNER. Now----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. What else did I do then?

Mr. JENNER. When you reached Palm Beach you met the lady who became your first wife, Dorothy Pierson?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Tell me who was Dorothy Pierson?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Dorothy Pierson was an attractive girl, the daughter of a local real estate man whose mother was married to an Italian, Cantagalli, Lorenzo Cantagalli, from Florence. And the mother and daughter came back to the United States during the war. She was the daughter of Countess Cantagalli by the first husband, who was an American. That is why her name was Pierson. And, anyway, Dorothy and I fell in love with each other and got married.

Mr. JENNER. She was quite young, was she not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very young.

Mr. JENNER. About 17 or 18?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you subsequently married where?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In New York.

Mr. JENNER. In New York City?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. New York City.

Mr. JENNER. And that marriage subsequently ended in divorce, did it?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. When?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. About a year later.

Mr. JENNER. You were married just a short time?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Just a short time. A child was born.

Mr. JENNER. There was a child born of that marriage?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And that child's name was Alexandra?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. Is she still alive?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. I will deal with her subsequently, if I might. The divorce took place--well, we might as well close up with Lilia. You never married her?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.

Mr. JENNER. When you got back to the United States----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. We pursued correspondence, and I intended to marry her, and go back to Mexico. But there is no way of getting back to Mexico.

Mr. JENNER. The records indicate that you made some effort here in Washington to obtain reentry into Mexico, and you were unable to do so.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. And that Lilia attempted to assist you.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And she attempted to come into this country?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. She also was persona non grata at the moment, is that right?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. She had two sons?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. One of them was in Racine, Wis.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Both of them were in military academy--young boys.

Mr. JENNER. And in any event, that eventually petered out?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. And you met Dorothy Pierson in Palm Beach, Fla.?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you subsequently married her in New York City, on the 16th of June 1943?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is the date. The dates of my marriage are very vague now in my mind. I am taking your word for it.

Mr. JENNER. Well, I don't want you to take my word for it.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. It is probably correct. You must have it some place.

Mr. JENNER. Do you recall your daughter's birthday--it was on Christmas Day, was it not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. 1943?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. During the period you were married to Dorothy in New York City, what did you do, if anything, other than work on your proposed book?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I had an exhibition of my paintings.

Mr. JENNER. Now, I want to get into that. While you were in Mexico, did you do some painting?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I did a lot of painting--a whole tremendous file of paintings in Mexico.

Mr. JENNER. And did you subsequently exhibit those paintings?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Where?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Newton Gallery, New York, 57th Street.

Mr. JENNER. And did those paintings receive comment from the critics?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. The newspapers wrote about them, that they were original, but the sales were hardly successful, if I may say so.

Mr. JENNER. Do you still have some of those paintings?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; some I have given away, but I still have some.

Mr. JENNER. They are water colors?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Water colors, washes; yes. But no military installation--the tropical jungle. Girls, tropical jungle, Mexican types--I am very fond of Mexico. Roderick MacArthur and I tried to make a trip at the time through the wilderness of Mexico together in an old Ford which belonged to him; the road did not exist yet, so we went together in this old broken down Ford, drove, drove and drove a couple of days with no roads, and finally one evening----

Mr. JENNER. This is in Mexico?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; during that time.

Mr. JENNER. During the 9 months you were there?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; we hit a steel pole sticking out in the middle of the trail, and the whole car disintegrated under us. So we walked back a couple of days in order to get back to Mexico City. We left the car right there.

Mr. JENNER. Now----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. If you see him in Chicago--I will write to him again; and I hope to see him.

Mr. JENNER. You came to Texas in 1944, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 1944.

Mr. JENNER. Do you recall making a loan at the----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, yes.

Mr. JENNER. Russian Student Fund?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. After my divorce I decided that I am still interested in this oil business, and all my pursuits in various directions are not too successful, so I should go back to school and study geology and petroleum engineering.

Mr. JENNER. Had you made inquiry at the Colorado School of Mines?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Tried Colorado School of Mines, Rice Institute, and University of Texas.

Mr. JENNER. All right. You are now about 33 years old, somewhere in that neighborhood?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. During these years you led sort of a bohemian life, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Well, you see--bohemian and trying to make a buck, as you might call it.

Mr. JENNER. I am trying to bring out your personality.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. But you see the main reason I actually came to the United States is to look for a country which did not have--which was a melting pot, because I am a melting pot myself, as you can see. I changed from one country to another, a complete mixture. So I thought that would fit me right. And eventually it did. It took a long time to get adjusted to it. The first five years are very difficult in the United States. I didn't speak English very well. And it was just tough going. Fortunately I had friends, acquaintances, and a lot of relations. But, otherwise, I probably would have starved. And it did actually happen that I did starve occasionally. So I decided to go----

Mr. JENNER. You were young and full of energy?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. While working for the Humble Oil Co. I said that a man without the education in that particular field--I did not have the background of geology or petroleum engineering, except that I kept on studying by myself. I didn't have much chance to succeed. I was wrong, by the way. I should have followed Mr. Blaffer's advice and gone in the oil business, and I would have been a multimillionaire today.

Mr. JENNER. Well, you might still be.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I probably will be. But really that was--he was the man, the only man who gave me the right advice--of all my friends and acquaintances. He said, "George, go on your own and try to speculate on oil leases and drill wells on your own," which is the basis of the oil industry. "We will give you a lease, you can promote some money to drill on it, and here you have it." And that is what happened. That is the origin of many, many of my friends in Texas who are very wealthy.

Mr. JENNER. All right. You came to Texas----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Came to Texas----

Mr. JENNER. 1944.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. That was following your divorce from Dorothy Pierson?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Got a loan.

Mr. JENNER. You entered----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Entered the University of Texas, and School of Geology, and Petroleum Engineering as my minor--major in petroleum geology and minor in petroleum engineering. And with a fantastic effort and speed I succeeded in getting my master's degree in petroleum geology and minor in petroleum engineering in 1945, I think.

Mr. JENNER. You received your master's in 1945, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And in petroleum geology?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; with minor in petroleum engineering.

Mr. JENNER. Did you pursue your studies further?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; well, I wrote a dissertation. I pursue my studies as the time goes by. But that was the end of my education in American schools.

Mr. JENNER. Now, while you were at the University of Texas, did you serve as an instructor----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In French.

Mr. JENNER. You had no tenure there? You were not a professor?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; an instructor in French, to make some additional money.

Mr. JENNER. When did you complete your work at the University of Texas--all of your studies?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In the fall of 1945.

Mr. JENNER. How long were you at the University of Texas?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think about 2 years.

Mr. JENNER. Now, following your obtaining your master's degree at the University of Texas, did you enter into business?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I got a job waiting for me in Venezuela, the Pantepec Oil Co. in Venezuela.

Mr. JENNER. What was the nature of that work?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I worked as a field engineer.

Mr. JENNER. In Venezuela?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Very good salary; pleasant conditions. But eventually fought with the vice president.

Mr. JENNER. What?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Eventually I got into some personal trouble with the vice president, and this time was not kicked out but through mutual agreement it was decided between Warren Smith, who was my president, and a close friend, that I should resign and also----

Mr. JENNER. When did you leave that position?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Some time in 1946.

Mr. JENNER. I interrupted you. You were going to add something.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Some time in 1946. And also I wanted to come back to the States to renew my citizenship paper application, because I would lose my citizenship papers by staying in Venezuela too long, you see.

It was an American company all right, but I think it was incorporated in Venezuela.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have to have a passport to get to that position in Venezuela?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; well, I think I still have my Polish passport. But I had a reentry permit to the States.

Mr. JENNER. So you returned to the United States in 1946?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Then what did you do?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I arrived back through New York, but stayed a very short time, and went to Texas again.

Mr. JENNER. What town?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. To Houston. To look for a job. I did not want to be in a tropical part of the United States, in a hot part. I was trying to find a job somewhere in the northern part of the United States. And then I heard that there is a job available as an assistant to the chairman of the Rangely Field Engineering Committee.

Mr. JENNER. At Rangely, Colo.?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And what was the field engineer's name? He is now dead, is he not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; Joe Zorichak.

Mr. JENNER. There was an assistant. What was his name? There were two of you assisting the chairman?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't remember the other assistant's name. I was the only one in the office. Later on--we were part of the group of all the oil companies operating there. But we were the only ones actually working for the committee. I don't remember.

Mr. JENNER. I will find it here in a moment.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. You see, this committee was a consulting organization set up by, I think, 8 or 10 oil companies operating in Rangely Field, which is the largest field in Colorado, in the Rocky Mountains. It still is.

Mr. JENNER. Does the name James Gibson sound familiar to you?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; Gibson--James Gibson; yes. But he was not in our outfit. He was an engineer for Standard Oil of California. But he worked very close to us. In other words, he was an employee of the Standard Oil of California.

Mr. JENNER. Does the name J. M. Bunce sound familiar to you?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Who is he?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He was a representative of a pumping outfit from California who sold oil well pumps.

Mr. JENNER. Now, this Rangely Engineering Committee was formed by the various oil companies?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And they were operating in the Rangely, Colo., oil field, is that correct?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And for the purpose of compiling statistics and engineering data for the entire field?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, yes; this and also to allocate production to various wells in the field, because we didn't have any regulatory body in Colorado at the time. We actually applied a certain formula to each well to see how much each well would be allowed to produce. This was our main job, you know.

Then, of course, our job was to coordinate the technical advances in that field and promote the new methods of drilling producing, to cut down expenses in the field. Among other things, we introduced diamond drilling there, drilling with diamond bits, which eventually became very, very successful.

Mr. JENNER. Now, this was what--1947?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 1946, 1947. I stayed there, I think, about 3-1/2 years, something like that. 3 years, maybe.

Mr. JENNER. Now, at this time you met and married your second wife, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Phyllis Washington?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Now, tell us about that a little bit.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I went on a vacation to New York, met a very pretty girl, and she was willing to follow me in the wilderness of Colorado, which she did. She was young and a little bit wild. But very, very attractive and adventurous. And she came with me to Colorado--without being married.

Her father was with the State Department, Walter Washington.

But I didn't know him.

Mr. JENNER. She was an adopted child?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Her name originally was Wasserman?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; something like that. And she was a beautiful girl who decided to come to Colorado with me. She stayed with me, we fell in love. She created a terrible confusion in Colorado. Imagine an international beauty with bikinis. I don't know if it is for the record. With bikinis, walking around the oil fields. But she was a wonderful girl, wonderful girl. She gave up the possibility of going to Spain, where her father was appointed charge d' affaires at the time. She decided she would rather stay with me in Colorado in the wilderness.

And I will tell you, that was a terrible place. That was the last boomtown in America. Rangely, the last boomtown in the United States. We lived in shacks, we lived in 40-degree below zero temperature, mud. It is the roughest place you ever saw in your life.

Mr. JENNER. You eventually tired of Rangely, Colo., and moved over to Aspen, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I didn't move to Aspen. I just had a little cabin in Aspen. I had a cabin in Aspen, and would go there on weekends. But then I became chairman.

Joe Zorichak resigned his position and moved to Dallas as assistant president of the American Petroleum Institute, assistant to the president of the API. And I was appointed to replace him.

Mr. JENNER. Was it about this time that you took residence in Aspen?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, no; about that time. I would say--I didn't take residence. I just had a cabin in Aspen.

But I commuted between Rangely and Aspen.

Mr. JENNER. That is quite a commutation. It is 165 miles, isn't it?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Nothing for the oil field.

Mr. JENNER. But it takes a long time to get 165 miles.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 3 hours. But naturally I would go there on the weekend and come back. Probably they accuse me of spending all my time in Aspen. But, anyway, what finally happened is, good or bad, we decided to sever connections with the Rangely Engineering Committee. They decided to stop completely the Rangely Engineering Committee.

Mr. JENNER. You had some difficulties with them before they decided to break it up, didn't you?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't remember too much of a difficulty.

Mr. JENNER. Was there something about your spending too much time over at Aspen, and not being----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, they never told me that. But possibly.

Mr. JENNER. The severance of your relationship was mutual?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, I think so. I don't think--you may call it I was fired, but I don't think so. As far as I remember, we just got together with the manager of Texaco in Denver and he told me, "George, we are just going to stop the operation at Rangely Field of the Engineering Committee."

I was the only one left, you see. So I said fine, stop it.

Mr. JENNER. And this was about when?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I forgot to tell you. Since you are interested in my character--is that it?

Mr. JENNER. Yes, of course.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. At Rangely. Colo., it stopped being an operating oil field, and it became a statistical job. When I moved there first it was the greatest boomtown and the greatest drilling place in the United States. We had 30 rigs going. It was very interesting.

Every day we had new problems. It was a very active life. Then at the end of my stay there was no work practically except to compile the statistical report. So naturally I started going to Aspen more often. I don't think I ever had any complaint against me.

Mr. JENNER. You were interested a great deal initially when the field was being developed.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. When it degenerated, if I may use that term, into a statistical assembly, you lose interest, spent more time over at Aspen, and there were some disagreements about that, a difference of opinion, and your employers questioned it.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. Was there any problem about your savoir-faire, for example, attitude with respect to keeping expenses?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Maybe so. But you know, our salary was very small there, and so we had to show certain expenses. They never questioned me. But possibly they considered my living expenses were too high. But I was the only one to do the job, instead of two. I kept the budget, more or less, at the same level, maybe lower.

Mr. JENNER. Now, you terminated your employment in January 1949, did you not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think so. The date is not clear to me.

Mr. JENNER. Well, this may refresh your recollection.

Had you become an American citizen in the meantime?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And was that on the 11th of July 1949 at Denver?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, in Denver, Colo.

Mr. JENNER. Now, your employment with the Rangely Oil Field Committee terminated after you became a citizen, did it not?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER. And does that refresh your recollection--it occurred about 6 months later?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. When your employment in the Rangely Oil Field Committee terminated, what did you do?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Then I realized that I could not remain married to Phyllis, because she was a girl of--who needed money, who needed a good way of life, needed luxury--she was used to luxury. And I asked her to go back to her parents, to New York, and that I will try to make a success out of--I decided to go on my own as a consultant--that I should try to make a success out of the consulting business.

But I just should do it by myself, without her being present. And so I moved to Denver, Colo., gave up that establishment in Aspen, and got some help from my friends, and with very little money I started my own consulting firm.

Mr. JENNER. In Denver?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; in Denver.

Mr. JENNER. In the meantime, did the--was the marriage to Phyllis Washington terminated?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; either in the meantime or just right at that time.

Mr. JENNER. Was that by her suit?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; by my suit.

Mr. JENNER. You filed the suit?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And where did you file that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In the court in Denver. She was gone. I returned in the meantime to see her, to see whether we can patch up things.

Mr. JENNER. You returned to New York City?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; to see if we could patch up things. We became very good friends with the other side of her family, the Wassermans, very interesting people who are still good friends of mine. Bill Wasserman is a banker in New York, used to be ambassador to Australia during the Roosevelt administration, I think--or to New Zealand.

And, frankly, he also, and her aunt, who were taking care of her--because, in the meantime, her stepfather was in Europe, they had also their own difficulties.

Mr. JENNER. Their own marital difficulties?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; they decided we better forget about this marriage. We remained very fond of each other. But we finally came to an agreement to have a divorce. And I filed a suit for divorce.

Mr. JENNER. When was that decree entered?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, that I do not remember.

Mr. JENNER. When did you get your divorce decree from Phyllis Washington?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In a court in Denver, Colo., but I do not recall the date.

Mr. JENNER. 1949 or 1950?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Something around that.

Mr. JENNER. Were any children born of that marriage?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No children. We were married in Grand Junction, Colo. And the divorce was entered--the reason was desertion, which was actually true, because she did not come back to me. She stayed in New York, or eventually--she drank, also, an awful lot. Today she is an alcoholic--poor girl.

Mr. JENNER. You entered the oil consulting business in Denver?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. First of all, as just an ordinary consultant. I got helped by a friend of mine who has a small oil company in Denver.

Mr. JENNER. What was his name?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Jimmy Donahue. And he facilitated by giving his office, the secretary and so on. Because it is rather expensive to start on your own.

But very soon afterwards I started getting consulting jobs--doing evaluations on the wells and things like that. And one night--this will be interesting for you, how to start an oil business--one night I was driving through Oklahoma, tired as hell, and I said to myself, by God, everybody is making money in the oil business except me, I am just a flunky here for all these big operators--I should go in the oil business on my own, really in the oil business, drilling and producing, which was interesting to me. And then I recalled that my ex-nephew, Eddie Hooker, in New York, asked me to go in business with him. He had visited me in Colorado and was very much interested in the work I had done. I gave him a telephone call from some place in Oklahoma.

I said, "Eddie, how about it?"

He was working for Merrill Lynch at the time.

And he said, "George, I am ready. I am tired of Merrill Lynch."

Mr. JENNER. Merrill Lynch, Fenner and Beane at that time?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. "I am tired of that Merrill Lynch, Fenner and Beane."

We formed a limited partnership together.

Mr. JENNER. And that is the partnership of Hooker and De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And that was when--1950?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I think so--1950.

Mr. JENNER. And did it last very long?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. It lasted, I think, 3 years.

Mr. JENNER. About 2 years?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 2 or 3 years.

Mr. JENNER. And----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Now, we made money, we lost money, but it was a pleasant relationship. We are still very good friends.

Mr. JENNER. What did you do in connection with that partnership?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I did buying of the leases, doing the drilling, and helped him in New York, also, to raise money.

Mr. JENNER. He handled the financial end, or raising of money end?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you the field work?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Sometimes--we opened an office in New York, a small office. He was in New York most of the time. I was in Denver.

Our first well was a dry hole, a disastrous dry hole. But our second well was a producer. We made some production. But never anything big.

Mr. JENNER. Now----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Eventually I returned to Texas from Denver, because I had always retained some good friends in Texas, and they suggested, one of them who participated in our well, first venture--suggested that, "George, you will do better in Texas, because Wyoming is too expensive"--a well costs $200,000 or $300,000 in Wyoming, you know--in Wyoming or Colorado.

Mr. JENNER. Now, when you were in partnership with Mr. Hooker, your field work and discovery work was in Wyoming and Colorado, is that correct?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No. We started by drilling our first well in Wyoming, operating from Denver. And we had--we were snowbound there, we paid the rig time for a hell of a long time. To make the story short, our first venture was quite a failure. One of the reasons we finally split partnership with Eddie Hooker is that he is a very wealthy boy. He comes from a very wealthy family. And he wanted the oil business to make millions.

My reason to be in the oil business is to make a reasonable living, and eventually build up some production.

On our first venture in Wyoming, on the very first one, after we bought the leases, and before starting drilling, we got an offer from another company to sell out for a very substantial profit, without drilling a well--they would do it. Naturally, I told Ed we should do that instead of running a tremendous risk of drilling our own well. Well, he said if they want to buy it it means that we have something there, the usual story.

I was a little more conservative--I said better sell out and try to find something less risky.

He said if we hit it, we are millionaires right away--which was true--we had a huge block, of 12,000 acres, something like that.

Well, from then on, the next venture was in Texas, and we drilled quite a few successful wells, quite a few dry holes, too.

Mr. JENNER. You returned to Texas?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. What year?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Abilene, Tex., we had the headquarters--that was the center of the small size independent operators at the time.

Mr. JENNER. What was the name of the hotel at which you stayed?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Wooten Hotel.

Mr. JENNER. And the partnership was still in existence?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Our partnership was broken up after I married Miss Sharples. It was, frankly, a personal thing.

Mr. JENNER. I think this is a good time to stop, because that is the next phase I want to get into. We can go to lunch.

(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the proceeding was recessed.)

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE S. DE MOHRENSCHILDT RESUMED

The proceeding reconvened at 2 p.m.

Mr. JENNER. On the record.

Before we start on the next phase of your life, I would like to go back a minute to your father.

You left there about 1931 or 1932?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; but I came back many times.

Mr. JENNER. You came back to see him?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; almost every summer vacation.

Mr. JENNER. Now, what happened to your father, with particular reference to World War II?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He was living in Wilno, the same town that I went to school in, during the war, and I arranged for his visa to come to the United States at the time.

Mr. JENNER. Now, is this at a time when you were in this country?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I was in this country, and I knew that--this was before the outbreak of the war. I arranged for the visa to come to America, and he did not take advantage of it.

Mr. JENNER. That invasion was in September of 1939.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 1939; yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you made these arrangements before September 1939?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Before September 1939. And instead of that, you know, he did not take advantage of those arrangements. Maybe he was too old, decided not to come to the United States. And then there was the German invasion of Poland and the Russian invasion on the other, and he happened to be in the Russian part of Poland, and naturally went into hiding.

Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. You mean Russian part in the sense that the Russians invaded Poland?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. To meet the Germans who were invading Poland from the other side?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. So he then became engulfed by the Russians?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. He became engulfed in advance of the Russian Army and had to go into hiding because he had a sentence of life exile to Siberia against him. And at that time the Germans and the Russians were not at war yet, so the Russians and the Germans made an agreement that all the people of German or Baltic or Swedish origin could go to Germany, and they could declare themselves openly and go to a special German commission set up for that effect in various towns.

Mr. JENNER. You say declare themselves openly. What do you mean by that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Declare themselves that they they are willing to go and live in Germany, instead of living in Russia.

Mr. JENNER. Declare allegiance to the German Government?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right--declare allegiance to the German Government, and declare themselves Volkdeutsche, which means of Germanic origin. Russia had many millions of people of that type, an enormous German colony. So the Germans did it in order to get all those Germans from the Volga Province into their own country. And all the other people, like my father. And he declared himself willing to go to Germany, and the Germans took him into Germany. He would rather be with the Germans than with the Communists, and spent the rest of his life----

Mr. JENNER. Was your father still anti-Communist?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; very strongly anti-Communist----exceedingly strongly anti-Communist, almost fanatically so. Naturally, he had the sentence against him. And then he spent the rest of his life in Germany and was killed at the end of the war in an air raid, as far as we know--some air raid hit that place where he lived.

Mr. JENNER. Do you know what town it was?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I don't know the town, but it is an old castle in Oldenburg. It is near the Danish border. My brother is going to go right now there to visit his tomb, because neither of us had the time to go and see that place. But he is in Europe now, and he will go and see the place where he was buried.

Eventually, we received some of his papers and documents and letters through some German friends who stayed there with him.

Mr. JENNER. Now, I take it he was--we can at least fairly say that he had sympathies, or was sympathetic with the German cause?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I remember we exchanged letters with him during the war through some friends in Argentina and in Japan, before Japan got into the war. My father wrote me a letter in which he said, "George, the Nazis are no good, and Germany is going to lose the war, but I prefer to be in Germany than in Soviet Russia. At least I am free and nobody is bothering me."

It was the policy of the Germans to protect the people who had some positions in Czarist Russia. But he never became pro-Nazi. He was too clear thinking for that. He liked the Germans all right, but he was not pro-Nazi. But he hated Communism. That was his life's hatred.

Mr. JENNER. Now, we have you back in New York City--this is when we went to lunch--around 1953--1952, 1953.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Your partnership with Mr. Hooker had terminated.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, no; still active. I think it was in 1952--because I was not married--we still had the partnership. I was visiting Ed Hooker in New York at that particular time, and through him I met my next wife, my last wife.

Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, who was she?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Wynne Sharples.

Mr. JENNER. She at that time was a student?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. She was just graduating from the medical school at the College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University. That was her last year. And she was late in her studies. She was 28 or 29 years old at that time. So she had missed a couple of years, you see. And we fell in love with each other and decided to get married.

Mr. JENNER. Tell me about the Sharples family.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. The Sharples family is from Philadelphia, Philadelphia Quakers. He is in the centrifugal processing business and also in the oil business. And I had dealings with his nephew for many years.

Mr. JENNER. What is his name?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Butler, Samuel Butler, Jr. He runs the oil end of Mr. Sharples' operations. And they had a small interest in Rangely Field. That is how I got acquainted with Mr. Butler.

So we knew about each other before--my wife's father, and so on and so forth--and--the daughter asked his advice, whether she should marry such an adventurous character like me, and the father said, all right--obviously had sufficient good information from Butler about me. Butler was my best man at the wedding.

Mr. JENNER. Best man at your wedding to Miss Sharples?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; Sam Butler.

There were several ushers. He was one of the ushers. I don't remember who was the best man. My brother was the best man. He was one of ushers. So we got married.

Mr. JENNER. Was the Sharples family wealthy?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very wealthy.

Mr. JENNER. Socially prominent?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Socially prominent. But not too interested in society, because they are Quakers, you know. But my wife is interested----

Mr. JENNER. She has a nickname?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; Didi.

Mr. JENNER. Some of the people apparently--voluntarily--they know her with that nickname--Didi.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. We got married, I think, after her graduation immediately in the Unitarian Church in Chestnut Hills.

Mr. JENNER. What is that--a suburb of Philadelphia?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. A suburb of Philadelphia. And she moved to Dallas, and I moved to Dallas, also, from Abilene, where I used to live, so she could continue her work in the medical field, and to take her residence in the hospital in Dallas. She was a resident physician----

Mr. JENNER. In what hospital?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In the Baylor Hospital.

Mr. JENNER. Baylor University?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Was it university connected?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't remember. But it is Baylor Hospital, in Dallas. It is not the same as Baylor University. It is called Baylor Hospital.

Mr. JENNER. All right.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. And she stayed there as a resident. I worked very often in my office in Dallas, instead of Abilene, and continued my partnership with Ed Hooker. But there developed a tremendous animosity between Ed Hooker's wife and my wife, Didi.

Mr. JENNER. And Ed Hooker's wife was----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Was an ex-model, very attractive girl, Marion. And probably my wife snubbed her or something. She didn't come from such a prominent family.

Anyway, there was a great deal of animosity there. And Ed told me, "George, you are a fool to marry this girl--she is nuts."

She had had nervous breakdowns.

Mr. JENNER. This is Mr. Hooker's wife?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; that is my ex-wife, Didi Sharples. She is very high strung--she is a very high-strung person, and had nervous breakdowns while going to medical school. I don't know if it is interesting for you, all those details.

Mr. JENNER. Well, I think not as to that. I am interested, though--she came to Dallas with you?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. She came to Dallas to live with me. We had an apartment first. Then we bought a house jointly, a farm, a small farm outside of Dallas. And then she had--we had two children, Sergei, and a girl, Nadejeda, whom we called Nadya because the name is very difficult. It is my aunt's name, and Sergei is my father's name.

Mr. JENNER. When were those children born?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. One year difference--in 1953 and 1954.

Mr. JENNER. Your son was born in 1953 and your daughter in 1954?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. I think you were about to tell me some differences arose, you thought, between Mr. Hooker's wife and your wife.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And did that have an effect on your partnership?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; it was more or less, I would say, a social problem and personal dislike. Ed is very much devoted to his wife. He told me one day, "We cannot continue this partnership in such unpleasant circumstances, and I think we should break our partnership and sell out what we have." We had some oil properties and we sold it out and divided the proceeds.

Oh, yes--also, Ed was dissatisfied that I moved away from the oilfield--another reason we broke our partnership. Because I was staying in the oilfields before that all the time. But now I moved to Dallas, and I could not be right in the center of the oil activity, according to him. It turned out to be that this actually was much better for the oil business, to be in Dallas than to be in Abilene.

Mr. JENNER. Why is that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, because we are more or less in the center of things than just in a small hick town, you see.

Mr. JENNER. You----

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. At the same time about, when we were breaking this partnership, my wife's uncle, Col. Edward J. Walz, from Philadelphia, who is an investment man and a man who is fascinated by the oil business, offered me to form a partnership with him, and we formed a partnership just about the same time.

Mr. JENNER. Have you identified this new man?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; Col. Edward J. Walz, this was my wife's uncle, Miss Sharples' uncle--much younger than his--than her mother, but a man of substance, from Philadelphia--with whom we developed friendly relationship. He liked me and I liked him. And we decided to form a partnership, and we called this partnership Waldem Oil Co.--with the idea of doing the same thing I did with Ed Hooker--that I would do the fieldwork and he would do, more or less, the financial end of the business in Philadelphia.

We had several very successful dealings together. On our first drilling venture we found oil. I kept producing that little field for quite some time.

Mr. JENNER. What field?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Post field, in Texas--a small part of this field belonged to us, and we kept on producing. We did other operations in the oil business, selling leases, buying leases, and things like that.

But we didn't do anything spectacular because he never could provide any large amounts of money for anything spectacular. We did small things. It was a small operation. But we always made money together.

Eventually, after my wife and I got divorced----

Mr. JENNER. Now, you mention divorce. You and Wynne Sharples were divorced?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And when did that take place?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That, I think, was in 1957, I guess, or 1956. We were married for 5 years.

Mr. JENNER. Well, it must have been 1957, then.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 1957, yes; it turned out to be that both of our children had cystic fibrosis--it is a terrible illness of genetic nature. The children who have it have no hope to recover, as yet.

Now, my ex-wife and I started a foundation, National Foundation for Cystic Fibrosis in Dallas, of which Jacqueline Kennedy was the honorary chairman.

Now, my ex-wife says that I didn't have much to do with this foundation, this Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, but actually I did, because I collected most of the money from my Dallas friends. It started with very little--we started with $10,000 or $20,000, and now it is a $2 million foundation, with headquarters in New York. Last year I was chairman of this foundation in Dallas for the first public subscription to our Cystic Fibrosis Fund for the Dallas children, and we got $25,000.

Now my son, Sergei, died from cystic fibrosis in 1960.

By the way, the reason for our divorce, in addition to whatever disagreements we had, which was not very important, was the fact that we both obviously have a tendency for cystic fibrosis, a genetic affinity for cystic fibrosis, and the children born from such a marriage have a very poor chance to survive. She wanted more children. She was scared to have more children with cystic fibrosis. The little girl is still alive. She lives in Philadelphia.

Mr. JENNER. She is with her mother?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. With her mother, yes.

Mr. JENNER. Is her mother pursuing her profession in Philadelphia?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Her mother is not actually practicing but she is in charge of the Cystic Fibrosis Research Institute in Philadelphia, she is a trustee of Temple University.

But her husband, Dr. Denton----

Mr. JENNER. She remarried?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. She remarried.

Mr. JENNER. What is his full name?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Dr. Robert Denton. He is the doctor who treated our children for cystic fibrosis. At present he is a professor of pediatrics and assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania.

Mr. JENNER. I don't want to go into the litigation. There was some litigation, was there not, between you and your former wife with respect to some trust?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Trust fund.

Mr. JENNER. Established for whom?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Established for Sergei, for our son. Now, I had to contribute, according to the divorce, $125 a month for the support of the children, which I did, and she put that money in a trust fund. She did not want to use that money for the upkeep of the children, because she is independently wealthy, and eventually she refused to accept any more contribution of money from me. I objected on my side to the fact that I was removed away--that the children were very far away from me. They were living in Boston at the time, and I encountered constantly difficulties in regard to my visitation rights of the children. Well, anyway, finally all of a sudden, after Sergei died, a long time afterwards, I received a notification that we inherited, my ex-wife and I--we inherited this trust fund.

Mr. JENNER. Which trust fund?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Established for Sergei, our son.

Mr. JENNER. Who established the trust fund?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Her grandfather, my boy's grandfather, Mr. Sharples, plus the money that came from my monthly contribution for the children's support--whatever money she could put in it. Anyway, it was a small trust fund of $24,000, which eventually was split up between my ex-wife and myself--about $12,000 each. There was a litigation in regard to that, but I don't know if it is interesting for you.

Mr. JENNER. No--I have the complaints. Your ex-wife--Dr. Denton lives in Philadelphia?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And she does research work, does she?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. She doesn't do the actual research. She is more or less running the administration end of a second foundation. She was eventually asked to leave the National Cystic Fibrosis Foundation which we had formed together in Dallas, and which became this national foundation.